? Merry - 01/02 1.6(29) +9 Fed the Hypo, 3.3(59) PMPS, Earned Reduced Dose Shot 4.75u

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by LuanneP, Jan 2, 2018.

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  1. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is blue today after his nice low greens yesterday. But that's ok because I'm at work today so can't watch him as closely :)

    On another note, my almost 16 yr old boy, Beau, has an appointment this afternoon because the past few weeks he's had a few episodes of straining to pee. As soon as I notice it happening I give him 50mg of Gabapentin which seems to relax his bladder so that it doesn't spasm & then he pees normally. He has a history of inappropriate urination, rarely uses the litter box, but he's had every test imaginable, xrays, ultrasounds, bloodwork several times, u/a & culture several times & everything is always good so we assume he has Idiopathic Cystitis but this straining is a new symptom for him. Hopefully it's nothing serious & something we can help him with. I have had a cat with bladder cancer & although I know it's uncommon in cats it's not so uncommon once you've experienced it so that's what I worry might be going on with Beau but I hope not.
     
  2. Anela

    Anela Member

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    Hi Luanne, Not diabetes related...but curious with your experience with bladder cancer with a cat. We discovered a tumor in my guys bladder in September after 3 months of our vet trying to treat him for an assumed UTI (he was peeing outside the litter box and with blood). Ultrasound found the mass and 3 weeks later he had surgery to remove the mass (and 1/3 of his bladder). What protocol did you do with your kiddo with bladder cancer? I can't find any support groups for this specific cancer in cats, however, I'm on a FB board for dogs with bladder cancer. By the way it was confirmed TCC. Right now Kekoa is just taking herbal supplements as he couldn't take Piroxicam and because he had a tough recovery from the surgery (he ended up in ICU for a week due to a diabetic crisis because he would not eat), it was recommended for him not to do chemo until he was healthy again.
     
  3. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I'm sorry to hear that Kekoa has bladder cancer but I'm glad you caught it in time so you could do surgery. Unfortunately by the time my Max's tumor was found it completed filled his bladder so surgery was not an option. I was able to give him a good 2 weeks with Piroxicam & Buprenorphine but then I had to let him go. Max was 21 yrs old. Which chemo would they have you use for Kekoa? The only other thing I might consider is CBD oil or the dried CBD in capsules.
     
  4. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I just checked Merry's blood & he's quite low at 1.6(29), the lowest he's ever been that I've caught. Does that earn him a reduction now?
     
  5. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    He's eating some of his regular food to see if it helps to bring it up a bit. I haven't used high carb food yet so just seeing if his regular food will boost him a bit but soon he'll be 2 hrs pre shot so won't be able to eat. Then what do I do if he keeps dropping?
     
  6. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It Merry's numbers are that low, it doesn't matter if it's 2 hours prior to shot time. Give HC to get the numbers up! To the extent that there's a general rule about anything, it's "Feed the 40's (or lower)." And yes, please reduce the dose by 0.25u.
     
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  7. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Oh. And re-test in 15 - 20 min. See the sticky on Shooting & Handling Low Numbers. Test, feed, retest, repeat.
     
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  8. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Thanks @Sienne and Gabby (GA) :) I did retest him 20 mins later & he was 1.9(34) so a bit higher. He's still eating.
     
  9. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would give Merry some gravy -- not much solids or a small amount of LC food with a a couple of drops of syrup to bump up those numbers. You want to get numbers into the 60s so you know your kitty is in safer waters.
     
  10. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is 2.7(49) now without high carb food.
     
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  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    When Neko was below 40, I used karo/corn syrup cause I wanted her up FAST! Congrats on the reduction. Up now Merry! Good start getting to 49, a little more gravy to get him over 50.

    I had a civie with idiopathic cystitis. The trick for him was low carb and low phosphorus food, with lots of water added. I did raw on his vets recommendation, but there is canned that fits that bill. Cartrophen injections and or glucosamine can help the bladder wall. I also used Feliways in his common areas - a lot of cystitis kitties are the nervous one. Mine was a semi feral. And yes it is painful, mine would get bupe during an episode. But once I changed the diet, no more episodes.
     
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  12. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Up Merry! And congrats on the reducie.
     
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  13. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is 2.9(52) now.
     
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  14. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Good. You could give a tsp or two of LC and see if he'll coast into PMPS. LC at this point can help get them surfing. Test again in 1/2 hour.
     
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  15. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Let's see if he's still surfing above 50 in 30 minutes.
     
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  16. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on that reducie, but that was way too low! :eek: It also looked like he was clearing a bounce.
     
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  17. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Yeah I was surprised to see the green at +7 because I thought he would be in the blues all day after being in the greens yesterday. But he's full of surprises lately! Glad I checked at +9.
     
  18. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    He's 2.7(49) at +10.5. I gave him a bit of gravy.
    He loves this, getting all these treats, LOL!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  19. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    3.2(58) at +11.
    When it comes to shot time, is it safe to shoot (will be reducing 1/4 unit) since I've had to feed him to get him out of hypo already? Adding insulin to that seems like adding fuel to the fire when I'm having to feed him to get him high enough to shoot.
     
  20. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    My gut says to skip. Drain the depot a bit overnight then shoot in the morning. Do wait and see what the PMPS is. Merry does bounce a little.
     
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  21. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    The not feeding within 2 hours of testing is more for newbies and peeps that are not as experienced as you. If you can monitor tonight, with plenty of test strips and some higher carb food, I would shoot anything over 50.

    Post if you need help
     
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  22. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I see Mandy's point but, Merry has never been that low before and is bound to bounce up and shooting could help to minimize the bounce. Why don't you see what the PMPS is and decide. You've got 2 opinions and hopefully some others will weigh in.
     
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  23. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Thanks @Mandy & Rex and @Bobbie And Bubba :)
    Would a further reduced shot be a consideration? Like maybe 4.5 or 4.25 instead of 4.75?
    I'll post what he is at PMPS & then we can decide.
    Keep in mind I'll be at work all day tomorrow. I can come home at lunch to check him but that won't be until +3.5 or +4.
     
  24. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I have a slightly different spin than Bobbie. I would want to be sure that you don't end up shooting a dropping number. In other words, since you'e been propping numbers up with HC, you need some space to be sure that it's not the HC that artificially raising numbers. If you can stall a bit and see if numbers stay up, you'll know it's safe to shoot.

    I agree that a bounce is likely but until you see that numbers are stable or rising, you won't know whether it's safe to shoot. Do you have the flexibility to stall a bit?
     
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  25. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    There's no guarantee that taking a temporary larger reduction will have an effect on the upcoming cycle.
     
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  26. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Your recent history with Merry shows when you shoot low he tends to go up anyway.

    Congrats on the reducie and it's so nice to see his recent progress! I guess it is his season, isn't it? ;)
     
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  27. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    @Sienne and Gabby (GA) Stalling makes it tough in the morning. As it is I'm trying to work his shot time back slowly because I was an hour late on NY morning so that makes me late for work. I was going to shoot 15 mins earlier tonight until I got these lows so now I can't do that. But I'll do what is best for Merry.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  28. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Yes, he does but he's been surprising me a bit lately. I didn't expect the lime green at all this afternoon. It was just lucky I decided to check at that time because I wasn't going to but decided to anyway.
     
  29. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    So here's a thought that is probably impossible given your schedule (and probably a desire to sleep). One way to deal with a potentially low pre-shot number is to shoot at +18 and then again at +18 for the next cycle.. That willet you back on schedule.
     
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  30. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    So that would make his shot time 3am & 6pm tomorrow. His usual shot times are 8am/pm so I think I'm better off sticking with +12 or as close to that as I can. I will stall tonight a bit if I have to.
     
  31. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    That is a very good point. When was the last HC food? If the PMPS is a few hours after the last HC feeding and is above 50 and you can monitor tonight, I'd shoot.
     
  32. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    No that's not right. His shot times on 18 hrs would be 3am & 9pm, right?
     
  33. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Right. I was just going to point that out. :)
     
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  34. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I only gave HC after his +10.5 reading & just a scant teaspoon of gravy from FF Gravy Lovers. That will be 1.5 hrs before his 9pm shot.
     
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  35. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    So I could do 18 hrs shots for his next two cycles, that's an option.
    Lets see what he is at PMPS which is about 20 mins from now.
     
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  36. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is 3.3(59) at PMPS.
    He had a scant tsp of HC gravy at +10.5.
     
  37. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    What are you thinking of doing?
     
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  38. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I gave him 4.75u (reduced by the 1/4u) and have my paws crossed!!
     
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  39. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Is that PMPS time the 15 mins early or at a 12 hour?
     
  40. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good call and get a +1 and +2 just for good measure.
     
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  41. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

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    Goodness. I'm glued to this when I should be out digging in the garden.
    All paws crossed over here too.
     
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  42. Mandy & Rex

    Mandy & Rex Well-Known Member

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    Good luck!

    Merry, steady does it! :D:D
     
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  43. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Thanks guys!! I so appreciate everyone's support & input!! I'll test him at +1 and let you know :)
     
  44. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is 4.3(77) at +1 :)
     
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  45. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Looking good! Can you get a +3 when Lantus usually onsets? And can you get a test in before you go to bed to make sure he is okay?
     
  46. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    AND because he gave you such a low at +9, if you get up tonight to go to the bathroom like I always do, I would grab a test then too if he hasn't started an upward trend.
     
  47. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    @Bobbie And Bubba Because I slept in on new years morning & was late giving him his shot, I've been trying to work his shot times back a bit so +3 is at midnight tonight. I'll stay up to do that for sure & I'll check him early in the morning as well.
     
  48. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I will not be up then but, if you need help, post for help.
     
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  49. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Looking good, Merry!
     
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  50. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Luanne, what time zone are you in?
     
  51. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    EST. I'm in Ontario, Canada.
     
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  52. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    I'm EST too, I will be up until at least 2:00 as per usual.
     
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  53. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Okay, we are on the same time zone. I will look in on you when I get up at 2 AM to check Bubs and go to the bathroom.
     
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  54. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    You sure keep some late hours, LOL I am glad there will be some more eyes on Merry.
     
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  55. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm also EST and just up the road (relatively speaking); and will also try to check around midnight. In the meantime, I'm in the basement trying to thaw out a frozen pipe, again.
     
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  56. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Thanks guys!! You're awesome!

    I'm not a morning person so 8am/pm works for me but right now we're at 9am/pm. I'm trying to get that worked back but Merry isn't agreeing, LOL!
     
  57. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Did you get a +3?
     
  58. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry is 4.5(81) at +3.
    He always gets a snack before I go to bed so he's eating now.
     
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  59. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the spreadsheet (I'm not a spreadsheet wizard), Merry nadirs later in the cycle. Can you get a test in just before you go to bed to see which way he's headed? and if you wake up during the night?

    I'm off to bed. Holler for help if you need to.
     
  60. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Just awoken for a bathroom trip and glad to see him surfing away. If you can get one more test in before calling it a night, that would be great.
     
  61. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    I went to bed after the +3 because it was midnight & I was falling asleep. I checked on him at +5 but didn't take a reading. At +10 he's 8.6(155) so he's having a little bounce after those lows. I worry a bit about today since I'll be at work.
     
  62. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Nice cycle last night! Glad you shot and didn't lose momentum. As far as checking and not testing, remember, some cats do not show any signs of hypo when they are too low. Just saying that as an FYI for you.

    Last night's cycle was probably still under the influence of the higher depot of 5 units. So, today's cycle will have the depot draining some.

    Can you get a +2 before you leave for work so you can get an idea if it is going to be an active cycle today and then you can steer appropriately with food?
     
  63. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    @Bobbie And Bubba I was already an hour late for work waiting until 9am to give Merry so his shot so I had to leave right after. I'll probably go home at lunch to check him, that will be around +3. Hubby is home today so I can ask him to check his BG if I need to. He won't be out of bed for a while though due to the shifts that he works.
     
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  64. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

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    Merry was still 8.6(155) at AMPS.
     
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