? Monitoring Hypo Kitty Overnight (SUCCESS = REMISSION! THANK YOU FOR THE AMAZING HELP!)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sherri, Sep 3, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Had a hypo incident today with my newly diagnosed sugar kitty Shamus. He fell from 2.8 to 2.7 to 1.9 over the course of the day. Corn syrup was administered and off to the vet. Before leaving vet was 5.1--brought him home and he ate, (trying to do two hours in between, we had the following readings over the course of the evening always followed by at least half a can of w/d and a couple of temptations).

    8:30 pm = 4.6
    10:30 pm = 3.7

    He just ate another approximate half can of w/d and a couple of temptations. I am just learning how to home test and he is not the most cooperative. It is just me and I have no extra hands to have help getting him checked all night.

    He is to have no insulin tonight or tomorrow until we see numbers 10+ and even that is only 1 iu if that is seen. PLEASE HELP!

    It should be noted he has no major visible signs of hypoglycemia and seems very much himself except for sleeping but seems regular for the kitty he is?
     
  2. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    HUGS Sherri! Yep this is scary so take slow DEEP BREATHS...do you have plenty of test strips? I know he's not over cooperative but you'll have to keep a watch on him by testing more. Do you have any gravy food? How about Karo? You can work this!
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  3. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Close up doors where he can go hide for now...it will make things easier if he isn't hiding somewhere.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  4. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    @julie & punkin (ga) @Wendy&Neko - I see you're online, can you stay with Sherri for a bit? Hubby's in the middle of a full body paralysis so need to monitor breathing and heart...I don't want to leave Sherri alone either...
     
    pevsfreedom likes this.
  5. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Hi Lyresa, I'm here and will monitor will Sherri for now. Go look after your hubby.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  6. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    THANK YOU Linda! I've pm'd Julie and Wendy too....I'm off then..
     
    Sherri likes this.
  7. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Thanks Linda!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok Sherri, Did you give Shamus some corn syrup? Got all the doors closed off so he has to stay nearby for monitoring?
    I need you to try to get another reading ASAP and let me know if he is showing any signs of hypo .
     
    Sherri likes this.
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @julie & punkin (ga) Hi Julie, Thanks for coming by. I'm pretty new at this but I'm standing by.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  10. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Thanks Linda - I'll keep an eye open too but it's time to make dinner.

    How long ago did Shamus have insulin? You also don't want to fill him up in case he needs to eat more later if he's lower, so go easy on the feedings.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  11. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Hi Wendy, I believe Shamus had insulin this morning. He was hypo this afternoon and ended up at the vet when they got a reading of 1.9. Sherri decided to bring him home and monitor which I don't think was ideal. I think this is a case of the double dip/extended watch hours I heard about with Lantus hypos.
     
  12. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Sherri, what was the dose you gave him this morning? Whatever it was, don't give that dose again, even if you see really high numbers. He might very well go very high, but that doesn't mean he needs that dose again. That dose was enough to get him seriously low, so he needs his dose reduced.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  13. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Hello All! You are incredible. I gave the emerg vet a call as well. Doc said low but not alarmingly since he has no major symptons. Said to monitor with food and corn syrup every two hours and call in the morning again. He's not hiding and seems much himself...no glazed eyes or other symptoms (although I know they don't always show). At 10:30 he had food and a small amount of corn syrup. Just did another reading here at 11:55 and he was 3.9 up slightly from 3.7 at 10:30.

    Linda can you explain this? "I think this is a case of the double dip/extended watch hours I heard about with Lantus hypos."
     
  14. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Linda - I was wondering how many hours since he had insulin. Hypos can go on for a while but he is in normal numbers now. Which is a good thing. I'm not sure if he still needs to be fed corn syrup, but it won't hurt.
     
  15. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    He was on 2 iu Lantus twice daily for one week and checked Tuesday had first signs of low which they did not expect with high 20s and teens previously. Pulled dosage back to 1.5. I too feel this is too much. That was the dosage he had this morning.
     
  16. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    H Sherri, In your other thread I mentioned that because Lantus is a depot insulin, the effects last longer. So what I was referring to is just that the food clicks in, the readings rise and then drop again later.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  17. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    7 am this morning was last insulin dose.
     
  18. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Wendy, it's 12:02am our time now so it was 17 hours ago!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sherri, it looks like he may be rising but I wouldn't put my guard down yet. He is still low. Did the emergency vet know you are using a human glucometer as opposed to a pet one? Pet meters read a little higher and 3.6 on a pet meter is considered hypo. Get another reading at 12:30 and let us know how he is doing please.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  20. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Sherri,

    I think you've gotten a good guideline from the vet, then on waiting til he's over 10 before shooting 1 unit. We suggest new people don't shoot under 200 (about 11) unless they have gotten the hang of hometesting, have a spreadsheet set up and are posting on the Lantus/Lev Insulin Support Group.

    For now, I agree with Linda. I'd test again in about 1/2 hr from your last test. You want to have 2 tests where he's flat or his blood sugar is rising, AFTER he's been eating (ie, not needing food to bring him up for the previous 2 tests) before you stop testing him and go to bed.

    He may coast along like this all night. I think I'd hold off on food right now and see if you test him in 30 minutes and again in an hour, and his blood sugar is staying at 3.9 or higher, you might be able to go to bed then.
     
  21. Asrael

    Asrael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    I can't add much to the great advice you are giving from everyone here- but I just wanted to let you know that we will be thinking of you- and sending support and light your way!
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sherri, let us know when you have another reading please. Just want to make sure things are improving or at least remaining the same.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  23. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    I'm not sure if he knew which monitor I was using, but if a human glucometer reads low (which we noticed when we did comparison at the vet (by almost 2 mol in some cases) then wouldn't that read higher on a pet meter (e.g., in the 4s or early 5s?) I read here that 2.8 is considered hypo on a human glucometer. Going to go try and test again. I still think 3.9 on my human glucometer is still in the low levels overall even if it would read higher on a pet one. Now I'm a lil confused.
     
  24. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    On a human meter, cats not on insulin can read from 40 (2.2) to 120(6.6). We use 50 (2.8) as the "take action" figure for kitties on insulin, because it doesn't leave much margin for error. Take action means giving high carb food. If you have any other cats, give them a test to see what they read. The guy sitting on my arms right now last tested at 2.9 (53). 2.8 (50) is not considered hypo, unless kitty is showing hypo symptoms at that number.

    Human meters do read lower numbers than pet specific meters. Some, but not all, vets use pet specific meters. My vet used the OneTouch human meter in her office. We have seen some research that says the human meters read about 1 (18) points lower in the lower range.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  25. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Not trying to confuse you. On your meter 4.4 would be a good place for Shamus to be before I'd stop testing tonight. He is still low for a cat on insulin. He is technically about normal for a NON diabetic cat. The problem is you are still learning to test and you really don't want him that low when testing is still a bit dicey and he is obviously very sensitive to the insulin dose he's been getting and you don't have a lot of data to be able to judge where he's going to go.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Just to clarify, I agree with everything Wendy said, I just think you need to leave a little bigger "safety" zone until testing becomes easier and you have some reading history to be able to safely let Shamus go down to the lower numbers he's been getting today.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  27. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Agreed, I wouldn't want him hanging in the 50's now, or even the 60's if you want to head off to bed.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  28. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to all of the info but please know that I'm taking it all in and VERY grateful. I just tried to test and we were unsucessful in getting enough blood and had to take a break and I will try again soon. My boy is wide awake, alert and "normal" in all other respects. I would love to be able to test Oscar (my other kitty) but he would need a suit of armor--the positive in all of this is that Shamus, although can be strong and fiesty, is way more manageable than Oscar ever would be.

    I am feeling like most obviously he has way too much insulin and I am frustrated with info from the vet. First test after a week on 2 iu/day at the clinic showed 3.6 and the vet was so surprised because all other previous numbers had been mid teens-high twenties. He said it may be likely that we would skip the dosage that evening. He had said they would monitor and without food Shamus went back up only two hours later to 5.1 before they sent him home to me and he said we'd still do the "new" lower dosage of 1.5 iu. Now I know he never should have had that injection let alone the one this morning :(

    Please tell me this is all just overwhelming in the beginning and "normal" as we try to manage the dosages in the beginning. I finally got insulin injections good to go and now it's overwhelming all over again--and scarier and more difficult. :(
     
  29. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    We typically start kitties on lower doses and increase as the numbers call for it. That's much easier in the beginning than finding out the dose is too high. And yes, the first month can be very overwhelming. There is a lot of information to learn, but you have a whole team here ready to help you. :bighug: We've all been in your shoes.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  30. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    It is incredibly overwhelming when you're starting. Don't worry - you're only 2 weeks into it and it gets infinitely easier. really.

    Always give Shamus a treat after you've tried to test him whether or not you got blood. That will help him learn to associate testing with good things. After you've poked for a bit his ears will grow more capillaries and before long you'll get blood with every test.

    Vets know that Lantus is good for cats, but they often aren't as familiar with the difference in dosing. Dosing is based upon the low point rather than the preshot numbers. Don't blame your vet - this is really common. You can learn about dosing here and teach your vet. :D
     
    Sherri likes this.
  31. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Okay...I do believe I might be getting better at this...current reading is 3.6. He didn't have any food since the last one of 3.9. His poor ear is getting pretty marked up :(. Any advice on what to do next. Some treats, food or corn syrup? He has eaten so much already. The food is still out from when he last ate and he's not much interested, but I can try a fresh can?
     
  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Deep breathes Sherri. :bighug:As scary and overwhelming as this all is, there are those of us who would love to be where you are because our kitties are not responding nearly so well a Shamus. You will get through this and fingers crossed, Shamus is telling you he wants to go into remission and quickly.

    @Wendy&Neko I'm a bit concerned about the vet advising to give 1u tomorrow if reading is over 10 given Shamus' adventures today. I'm wondering if Sherri should reduce that to 0.5u just to be on the safe side especially if she cannot monitor all day? Thoughts?

    So he's dropping again. I think a little high carb food if you can get him to eat or some corn syrup is in order.
    Congrats on starting to get your "Test Hands". :DDon't worry about his ears for now. You are keeping him safe.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  33. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I see your signature line says you are transitioning from w/d to Friskies. When did you start that transition and at what point are you? Changing from a high carb food like w/d to low carb can impact dose needs too.

    3.6 to 3.9 are within 10% of each other - he could be surfing or hanging out around the same numbers if you consider meter variance. How long apart were those tests? He's probably good with food and not corn syrup, unless you want to get to sleep.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok so he was 3.9 at midnight here and then 3.6 at 01:30 so yes he has stayed pretty steady for an hour and a half. I'd get another test to be absolutely sure before hitting the sack though. Test again between 2 and 2:15am.
    I missed that food transition and as Wendy says, that could very well the reason for his reaction today.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  35. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Was supposed to start transitioning to Friskies tomorrow but he's way too into his w/d--nothing else much interests him. The tests were about an hour and a half apart. I tried a whiskas salmon in juice but he only licked a tiny bit of the gravy. He had a few temptation treats and ate about another 1/4 can of w/d. He is alert and hopping over feet down the hall.

    I am to call in the morning again with my numbers and I do agree that 1 seems high even if he gets up into the 10 area.

    Thank you for the encouragement...it means so much.
     
  36. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    No food transition yet. I will definitely test before bed so will do another shortly here since he has just eaten.

    Our regular meal feedings were happening around 7am and 7pm but I am needing to pull that back for work on Tuesday...at least by 15 minutes. But regardless of all of that he has been eating off and on again all evening with this hypo event so if I do get some sleep what time is best to test tomorrow morning. My vet opens at 8am.

    I guess what I mean is I normally have been feeding and doing injections around 7 so do I aim to have a meal feeding and sugar test before/around 7?
     
  37. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Thank you for being our angel and getting this thread rolling. I'm not sure what you're dealing with at home but I'm humbled you would feel this way about someone and her kitty you don't even know. I hope your husband is okay. I'm praying for both of you. <3
     
  38. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    As I've been told many times by other members - take a deep breath! BREATHE! I'm still new to this, but it DOES get better! It's always scary when you're worried about your beloved pet, I know, but you're doing all the right things, and the members here are so knowledgeable and helpful, you're in the right hands. :) :bighug:
     
    Sherri likes this.
  39. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Thank you Lucy <3...I guess I'm just wondering how I'm going to manage with back to work (I'm a teacher and just started back today)...and I have no extra body in the house to help :( I can't keep running to the vet or calling my cat sitter who is a vet tech. I have spent so much money (without question) already...that is scary too.
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  40. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Let's see what Shamus does at his next test tonight and then decide next steps. Can you grab another reading now? If he is rising, you can probably safely leave testing until the morning maybe around 7am or 7:30am. If he is just surfing, I'd be inclined to set the alarm to do another check in 2 or 3 hours (I tend to be over rather than under cautious!). And then you can grab a little more shut eye and test again before calling the vet.
     
    Squalliesmom and Sherri like this.
  41. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    At some point, it would really help us help you if you can get your kitties blood glucose readings and shot doses into a spreadsheet. Here is a link to the one that most of us here use. There is a World version of the spreadsheet that will automatically calculate the US readings that most people here use.

    If you do get Shamus on another food, that will definitely lower his insulin needs. I see that he had mild ketoacidosis at diagnosis. I'd be reluctant to drop down too much in dose with that in play. 0.5 units may be too low. Are you testing him regularly for ketones?
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  42. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Okay reading is in...and 3 temptation treats rewarded. We're sitting at 3.8. He has been between 3.7 and 3.9 since 10:30 and food treated at 10:30 and 1:30. Thoughts?
     
  43. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Temptations are rather higher carb treats, and may be confusing picture of the numbers a bit. A good low or no carb treat like freeze dried chicken or a cube of boiled plain chicken breast is a better test treat. If you haven't gotten it yet, you might want to pick up some Polysporin Complete - the black and yellow box. Put a dab of that on after the poke and it'll help with the sting and healing.

    I think he's been at or near the same number for almost 3 hours now?
     
    Sherri likes this.
  44. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Okay I have the freeze dried treats but I thought since he was low the temptations were a good choice to keep him up? He's not interested in any food right now. Should I smear a dab of corn syrup or set my alarm and test again?

    Same numbers roughly the last 4 hours. But not every incidence received food.
     
  45. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @Wendy&Neko He's been surfing for about 4 hours now.
     
  46. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Is surfing good or bad in this case or does that depend on the numbers?
     
  47. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I think you can just leave him some food to snack on if he wants/needs it. He's not dangerously low or dropping so you don't need the corn syrup. Corn syrup also wears off. I'd set the alarm for a couple of hours and test again. If he's the same or up at that point, you can call it a night - or what's left of it.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  48. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I know it's scary- and yes, financially, too- but it really does get better. As Shamus becomes better regulated you'll have less frequent scary episodes like tonight's, and he won't have to have as many frequent, regular vet visits. Home testing also becomes easier as you and Shamus get more comfortable with it. My cat and I have been doing the "sugar dance" for about two months now and, while I still have my panic moments, it's nowhere near as scary as when we first started. I can't help with advice for when you're away at work, because I'm lucky enough to be home with my kitties all day, but again, once you find the optimum dose for Shamus and he is better regulated, it won't be such a worry. In the interim, maybe a neighbor or friend could check on him from time to time for you?

    This site was a life saver for me, everybody here is so helpful. I got better advice here than from my vet! I have since changed vets, lol. Any time you have a question or need help, they are here for you, with support as well.

    Good luck with Shamus through the night, and please let us know tomorrow how he is doing!

    Hugs!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
    Lucy
     
    Sherri likes this.
  49. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Surfing means he's mostly hanging around the same numbers. It's a good thing, because the typical cycle is a curve. They drop at the beginning, then slow down the drop, sometimes surf for a while, then head up again. Once he's been surfing for a while, he's unlikely to drop anymore.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  50. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ditto to Wendy's suggestions. I need to grab some shut eye and I think you are in good shape now. I'll check back in the morning to see how things are going. Deep Breathes and a :bighug:. You handled today very well and should be proud of yourself!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  51. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Thank you Wendy. Does this mean when I give all of these numbers to my vet tomorrow we have a better start on managing him/regulating his insulin?
     
  52. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Thank you so much...I have tears in my eyes for your compliments. I am going to try and get some shut eye for a couple of hours and test again. I will be in touch. So much LOVE to you all from me and my sugar baby! xoxo

    He seems tuckered out. I'm sure this has been hard on his system. Rest for us both.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  53. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Yes, the more time he spends in normal numbers now, fairly early after his diagnosis, the more his pancreas can heal. Both you and Shamus did great tonight.:bighug:
     
    Squalliesmom and Sherri like this.
  54. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Okay, alarm off, testing on....another 3.8--1 freeze dried treat/1 temptation (weaning off those temptations ;) ). Back to bed and will check again in another 2 hours or so....I'm guessing it's okay to hold off on food as we've been steady with this reading now since around 10:30 pm last night. I will aim for another test around what our normal feeding time is--6:45/7am...If you think I should feed, do tell...I will have my phone by my bed and can roll over and check the board from the pillow position...zzz...zzz...zzz.....z...z....z....
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  55. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Up and at em...another 3.7--1 freeze dried treat and our regular meal feeding for Shamus. He is eating his w/d--I wasn't introducing even a small portion of the Friskies after what we've gone through last night. He hasn't eaten quite half a can but he has definitely had a lot to eat over the course of the last 24 hours so he's probably a pretty full kitty cat. Back to bed for an hour and then calling vet! I have a feeling we're not going to be giving any insulin at all today. But I'm new so perhaps this isn't a good hunch. Talk to you all again soon. Any feedback here is appreciated. xo
     
    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) likes this.
  56. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Good morning Sherri. A 3.8 and then 3.7 this morning. WOW!. I like those readings and your instincts about NO insulin are correct. I wouldn't consider it at a reading of 3.7 after yesterday's rollercoaster. This may be a very good sign of Shamus pancreas starting to sputter back into action! I can't help but wonder if his true numbers were ever as high as you think they were. If all the readings of 20 and even in the teens were at the vet's office, those could be/likely were elevated numbers due to stress and stress can raise kittie's BG a lot.

    You had quite the day and night yesterday and I'm sure you are exhausted but you managed the situation with a cool head, mastered testing and have a cat who may be heading off insulin. As hard as it was, you achieved a lot.

    I'd love to know what the vet had to say this morning so please let us know when you have minute.
     
    Squalliesmom and Sherri like this.
  57. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Linda, your words bring me comfort. The vet agreed with everything all of you thought and the things I suggested too--even things in hindsight. We are not doing any insulin today--which was my feeling as well as I started to see the more stable numbers. I will test but not as frequently, (we both need a break) and give a few small meals throughout the day.

    I will be in touch with the vet and as it stands no insulin until we see high numbers like in 20s and even then would be .5 iu dosage. He's been eating and appears himself. There are no guarantees he will not spike but at least now we know how to get a better handle on it and quite honestly, I feel things are heading in the right direction for us.

    I need a few more hours of sleep before I tackle the rest of the day. Love and light to each and every one of you and I welcome any more comments while I attempt some shut eye. xo
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  58. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sherri, Sounds like you have a good plan in place to move forward. Now that you can test Shamus at home, you will be able to get a much better picture of exactly what his BG numbers are.

    When you test at home over the next few days, try to get some tests when Shamus has not eaten for at least 2 or 3 hours so you get his true level without any food influence and keep track of his meals so you can see how he is doing both with and without food. Those readings are invaluable when kitty decides to test your stamina and devotion! :)

    If you can take a few minutes this weekend to get a spreadsheet going and attached to your signature, it will really help everyone here provide you with the best support. Wendy put a link to the instructions in one of her messages here last night. The spreadsheet also keeps you from having to re-type past readings as folks fly questions at you in situations like this.

    Since Shamus is off insulin right now, if you want to try adding just a teaspoon of Friskies to his w/d to slowly start the transition, you could do so. It's much easier to do the transition when insulin is not in the picture. He may very well go to some higher numbers but now that you can test, and you're starting to get some data, you'll have better tools to allow the transition to be done safely.
    Obviously, much of this is going to depend on Shamus' taste buds!

    Get some rest and do something special for yourself! You deserve it! Shamus is a lucky kitty to have you for a Mom! :bighug::bighug: to you and scritches to Shamus.
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  59. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Good morning Sherri and Shamus! Looks like you did well overnight - good job.

    No, not an angel - just paying forward what others did for me years ago.

    Hubby has a rare genetic mutation that causes sudden extreme weakness and/or full body muscle paralysis from loss of potassium. It's the wierdest thing in the world....heart and breathing are muscles too, I have to monitor those to be sure I don't need to start either rescue breathing or CPR. Been doing THAT dance for many years. More info on it is linked in my signature.

    Again, GOOD JOB!
     
    Squalliesmom and Sherri like this.
  60. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Hello all! We had another 3.9 at 1pm!!! :) Gave him 1/4 can w/d. Will recheck again with another small feeding around/after 3.
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom and pevsfreedom like this.
  61. pevsfreedom

    pevsfreedom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Wow, tell him... something encouraging! That is awful and I've never heard of something like that.

    "Hubby's in the middle of a full body paralysis so need to monitor breathing and heart...I don't want to leave Sherri alone either...".

    Such great people on this forum.
     
  62. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Way to go Shamus! (and Sherri!) It may take a couple of days for the Lantus depot to be totally used up so his readings may still rise later but for now this is wonderful and encouraging news! Looking Good!:D
     
    Sherri and Squalliesmom like this.
  63. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I think you are right. Sometimes kitties become more sensitive to insulin after a hypo and it can kick start the pancreas to start working a bit. Today is looking really good for Shamus. :)

    If you do have to restart insulin, and that's OK if he needs a bit of support for a while yet, I wouldn't wait until the 20's. Over 15/16 is starting to get a bit high. It depends on the kitty, but renal threshold where the kidneys have to work harder to get rid of excess sugar is around 13/14 and you don't want him spending much time above that. I'd agree with just starting at 0.5U if you have to. And all paws crossed here that this nice streak continues.

    I hope both of you are catching up on your sleep today.
     
  64. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    just checking back in on you - sounds like today's gone well! I agree with Wendy, i'd continue to check him 3 times or so a day for now, but if you see numbers over 10, please let us know. It's better to restart insulin at the "right" time than wait until their bodies become used to high numbers.

    Just fyi, once a cat is diabetic, they are ALWAYS diabetic. If he can become diet-controlled, then great, but in my opinion, it's too soon to say that's happened. For now, I would not be complacent and I would continue to test his blood sugar. I'd also continue to feed him only canned low carb or raw cat food, and get rid of the temptations unless you need high carb.

    As long as he hasn't had more shots he's not likely to become hypo now. There is a rare disease that can cause that, but I doubt you need to worry about - the main message is that his normal not-on-insulin blood sugar may be quite low and as long as he's not getting shots, you don't need to worry about him becoming hypo. Cats not on insulin might measure from 30's-120's or so (1.6 to 6.5).

    Great job last night!
     
    Sherri and MrWorfMen's Mom like this.
  65. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Ok so I thought he was good to go because all afternoon I checked and and he stayed at 3.8 range usually followed by a small meal and then 4.1 at 4pm but no food. I had to go out of town and had my vet tech come at 7 to feed and check BG and she got a reading of 2.4!--no symptoms and himself. He ate a can of w/d and then she came and checked him around 2 hours later and he was back to 3.8. She left food out for him. That was around 930 and I am due home in half hour to check again. What is going on? I didn't think he'd dip that low again but he hasn't had insulin since Thursday morning. I see the note above that perhaps these could be normal numbers now? Tips please. I don't want to have another night like last :(
     
  66. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Did you see Julie's post just before yours? Cat's not on insulin can test as low as 2.2 fairly regularly, sometimes a bit lower. I think Shamus is fine, and his pancreas is starting to work. :cool: You can test again tonight before you go to bed, but I think you are fine. Keep getting the odd spot check the next few days, just in case we see him start to rise. Otherwise, enjoy the holiday weekend!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  67. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Oh thank you thank you for the quick response. I feel so relieved. I will check when I get home. Should I be leaving food out. He's still on the w/d and yep I saw the post above mine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  68. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I would just feed him for now as you normally would.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  69. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Ok so that's tomorrow morning at 7 am. Got it!!! I love you all!!!
     
  70. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    @MrWorfMen's Mom - Was reading through this thread over the past few minutes ... Just wanted to say, Linda, that you did a fantastic job of monitoring this with Sherri!!! :)
    @Sherri - Wow, Shamus is showing you some amazing #s now (sorry that was so scary last night - we all know how that feels!):bighug:
     
  71. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    3.1! Momma's gonna sleep tonight!!!
     
    Squalliesmom and MrWorfMen's Mom like this.
  72. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    nighty night!:D
     
    Sherri likes this.
  73. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Morning all! 4.0 today and I did try to include the small amount of friskies in two different flavours with no luck. He is really stuck on this w/d. Any other suggestions? I will be calling the vet later this morning with the happenings of yesterday evening and this morning. I will continue to spot check. Any particular times in general that would be best?
     
  74. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Wonderful news Sherri. :DShamus is holding at a great level for now and Mom got some sleep. WIN! WIN!
    Maybe Friskies just isn't Shamus' cup of tea. Here is a link to food information. Friskies and Fancy Feast Classic Pates are probably the most economical choices but there are other canned foods that would be ideal too.
    I am over the moon that things are going so well for you and Shamus!:joyful:
    I don't think it matters when you test him but try to get some readings when he has no food on board. Those will be his lowest numbers and will be the best indicator of whether he is remaining at normal levels or heading up again.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  75. Asrael

    Asrael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    That is wonderful! And glad you got some sleep! My cat really likes the Weruva brand of wet food- The Cats In the Kitchen and the Truluxe- they are ALOT more expensive than friskies- but he gobbles them up:) He also likes the FF- but we switch them up. If you look on the food list here- http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm
    You can see which ones are the lowest in Carbs- most of the Weruva are under 10, but not all.

    Have a great day!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  76. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Afternoon friends! Reported to Doc and he suggested checking periodically as all suggested here. We will be monitoring and I will call if numbers start to rise. If we can go a week without insulin then Doc says we can say he's in remission but will still want to check liver enzymes for the underlying hepatopathy, but suspects this should have improved and was most likely only due to the diabetes.
     
  77. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    I would test first thing in the morning before you're given breakfast. That is often a high point of the day because of Dawn Phenomenon. I would encourage you to test daily for the next couple of weeks, and as long as he's in normal numbers don't worry about it. Keep reporting here so we can help you if his blood sugar rises and let you know what to do if you get a higher test.
     
  78. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    That's wonderful! Fingers and paws crossed for you and Shamus! :):):) Keep us posted!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sherri, That was the best late night "party" I ever attended. Scary yes, but well worth it to watch Shamus start on the path to (paws and fingers crossed) possible remission! What a privilege this has been! Please keep us posted. I'm anxiously hoping for a wonderful conclusion to Shamus' diabetes story.:bighug: & Scritches!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  80. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Wellness is a food that I've used with success. It's more expensive than Fancy Feast or Friskys but if you buy the large cans it's not horribly expensive. They do make small cans that you can try. It tends to be higher fat and thus more calories so you may not need to feed as much. Both weruva canned (not the pouches, most of them are higher carb) and Tiki Cat have a lot of moisture and low fat so you need to feed more and they are expensive. For Weruva the 6 oz cans are not much more than the smaler ones. Check the ingredient list. Many of the Weruva have fish even if it's not in the name. Tiki cat is very low carb. Maybe you could mix it with the w/d to bring down the total carbs. Another thing you might want to try is raw. You can make your own, buy it frozen or get it freeze dried (you add water). I've had good success with Primal freeze dried turkey. You can usually get samples at pet food stores. I like the freeze dried because you don't have to open a big can and hope you finish it before it goes bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
    Sherri likes this.
  81. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    oops I listed foods that are available in the US. I'm not sure if can get all of those in Canada.
     
    Sherri likes this.
  82. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    You have been an amazing coach! Sending out intentions for all positive improvements from here in! :)
     
  83. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Thank you even for taking the time! I think I will start a thread to see what people in Canada are feeding in canned! :)
     
  84. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    You can get all of the foods listed above in Canada - Wellness, Weruva and Tiki Cat.

    Shamus is looking good today. I am so happy for you!
     
    Squalliesmom and Sherri like this.
  85. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Here's a morning report for all those who have been following and/or helping us along. Went 12 hours over night from around 6:30 pm to 6:30 am and the BG before the 6:30 am feeding was a steady 3.6! He ate a small amount of friskies turkey and giblets mixed with the w/d but he did leave some left in the bowl which he usually doesn't do so I know he's not totally digging it, but maybe it's a start?
     
  86. Asrael

    Asrael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Yay! That is wonderful news! So good to hear:) And glad he ate some of the other food too- sounds like a great start to the day!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Whoo Hoo! Keep those great reports coming! Go Shamus! He might not be feeling as hungry now that his sugar is down so much! Might not be the food!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  88. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Also, is there any chance I could be missing a spike in sugars throughout the day (I'm still home testing before meals)? I'm just curious. I know cats are very routined and he goes under the bed pretty much the same time each day for a few hours nap. I wonder if this became part of his routine when he didn't feel well and he has kept it up even though feeling better. Again no signs of any generally ill feelings--in fact he is as playful as ever--caught him spinning his ball on the scratch post, and playing with his mice and cat nip knots! Also, it was never unusual for him to go under the bed because he has been a skittish cat and finds comfort under there when people come over that he doesn't know too.
     
  89. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I think if you are testing before meals and specifically in the morning as Julie mentioned, you are getting a good indication of his lowest glucose levels. Insulin dosing should be based on the lowest not the highest reading of the day so as long as Shamus stays at his current levels you and Shamus are golden. It wouldn't hurt to get a few readings an hour or so after he eats to see how he is influenced by the food but the lows are the most important and critical numbers! Spikes can happen for all sorts of reasons (exercise, excitement, stress) in all cats so you don't need to be concerned about missing them. Sounds like Shamus is being a normal healthy Shamus! :bighug: and scritches!
     
    Sherri likes this.
  90. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Actually, a mid-cycle test in the +5 to +7 hours post-shot will show how low he may be going (the nadir period). That is the primary number used in dose adjustment for most insulins - how low the glucose goes.
     
  91. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @BJM Shamus is off insulin at this point and testing is continuing to see if he is actually in remission. I thought a nadir would only occur in a cat receiving insulin??
     
    Sherri likes this.
  92. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Oops!
    In that case, you're looking for 'post-prandial' glucose, or how high he goes after eating, which is about +2 hours from feeding.
     
    Sherri and MrWorfMen's Mom like this.
  93. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Awesome thank you! We just did our before evening feed at it as another steady 3.6 so I will check him in two hours to see how high he goes. :) And....he enjoyed a lil bit more of the Friskies turkey and giblets too so I'm mixing it in with his w/d.
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  94. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Got a 4.1 just about 3 hours after he ate! :D
     
  95. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Looking GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!:joyful:

    Just a thought.....I think it would be a good idea to remove the question mark and "Help Please" from the title now. We'll find you!
     
  96. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Woke up this morning to a 3.4 and eating way more Friskies! Wahoooo! Changed the title too! Thanks Linda! Happy Labour Day to you and your furry babies! <3
     
    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) likes this.
  97. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    GO Shamus! GO! Oh Sherri I am so happy for you and Shamus! Happy Labour day to you and Shamus from me and my Gang! :bighug:
     
    Sherri likes this.
  98. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Shamus is looking good! Here are the OTJ Trial Instructions that we use in the Lantus/Lev ISG. Your situation is a little different since you never even got to the point of having a spreadsheet or getting into the insulin support group. But since you have questions about when to test, this will answer them for you. The "normal test times" referred to below mean the test in the morning, prior to the normal shot. We call that the "preshot" or "PS" test. I also want to make sure you have (and keep) the last paragraph and understand that you always will need to treat Shamus as a diabetic. Hopefully he will stay in remission with the change in diet, but too often we see kitties do come out of remission. You want to always keep in mind that he's diabetic, just diet-controlled for the time being.
    Start the trial on the next green pre shot.

    If he/she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If he/she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his/her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
    Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. He/she may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.
    After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!

    Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him/her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on. Good luck with the trial!!!

    Once he/she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his/her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him/her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he/she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his/her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!

    From the Lantus/Lev ISG's Tight Regulation Protocol:

    Remission:
    • From Tilly's Diabetes Homepage:
      Phase 5: Remission

      "14 days without insulin and normal blood glucose values. Most remission cats are able to stay in the normal range all of the time (50 to 80 mg/dl), although there are a few cases of sporadic higher and lower BGs. Don't stop feeding low-carb and try to avoid cortisone if possible. Test the cat's BGs once per month.

      Approximately 25% cats that achieved remission using this protocol relapsed and required insulin again (frequent causes are hyperthyroidism or bouts of pancreatitis). Therefore, it is important to keep your diabetes kit up-to-date. Then you can react immediately by giving insulin and home testing. Importantly, the sooner you react to a relapse (i.e. preventing hyperglycemia and initiating other necessary veterinary treatment), the more likely a second remission will become.

      The longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission. Many long-term diabetics get stuck in Phase 3 or 4. Yet there is a benefit of using this method for such a cat as well: keeping the cat's BG levels as normal as possible is much healthier for it long term. Insulin requirements will often decrease to very low levels too."
    • Glycemic Status and Predictors of Relapse for Diabetic Cats in Remission
     
  99. Sherri

    Sherri Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Wow! Thank you Julie! Because it was such a whirlwind I never did get to a spreadsheet (although I have a tracked everything in a book) so can you direct me to where that is? (I'm sure someone has but I have received so much info I'm not sure where it would be at this point. My apologies :( I have been testing twice a day before each meal. I have even done some tests 2-3 hours after eating. When you say go ahead and feed small meals I'm not sure what this means as I had to change the schedule to only two feedings a day to correspond with the insulin injections when we first began. I am hesitant to change this routine should we need to go back to insulin. Is it okay that he (and his brother now) are being fed twice a day? I am also unfamilar with the colour coding and only understand the BG levels in the Canadian unit of measure (moL?) so what is considered normal range?

    I understand that Shamus will always have to be monitored and I am 100% devoted to doing that. I printed your info above to be added to my book! :)
     
  100. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    If someone gave you advice to only give 2 meals per day with the shot, that was probably someone familiar with other insulins, not the long-lasting ones like Lantus and Levemir. It's more appropriate to give frequent smaller meals with those insulins. Giving smaller meals more frequently is less of a burden on a healing pancreas. That's not defined anywhere, but I would probably try to give him 4 small meals spread out from the time I woke up til the time I went to bed.

    Here are the directions on creating a spreadsheet. I don't know if you need to do it at this point or not - it's up to you. You might find it handy to have the info in a google doc, and certainly, we encourage people to have one and keep them up to date since precious time can be lost if you need quick help and information is in a notebook at your house. It probably would be a good idea (I'm talking myself into you doing one as I write this post, LOL.) Use the world template for the spreadsheet so you enter the #s in mmol and they are translated into mg for the rest of us. The "common language" on this board is mg. Normal range in a cat not getting insulin is considered under 120, primarily in the 50-80ish range. Divide by 18 to get your mmol numbers. 120/18 = 6.66 mmol, so everything under that is considered.

    You don't need to test that much. He's not getting shots so he's not going to go hypo. Just follow the directions that I gave you above on testing once a day for now, first thing in the morning before breakfast. As long as he's under 100 (100/18=5.5mmol) you don't need to test him again til the next morning.
     
    Sherri likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page