MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP...

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Pallid, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Hello Everyone,

    I am so desperate at the moment. I really need your experiences.
    I have a 5.5 years old Male Siamese cat. He has diagnosed with Feline Stomatitis six months ago. Since then he got steroid ( depo medrol) and antibiotic shots every 2- 3 weeks. His mouth got better only for a week or less after shots and it started again.
    3 weeks ago he got his last depo medrol shot again and 2 weeks ago we realized he had high blood sugar level ( 425)...
    He has no ketones in his urine.
    My vet didn't start insulin. She gave him to Glucotrol 10 mg in the morning , 10 mg in the night.
    Then she started to give him serum for a week. His blood sugar was between 120- 270...
    But since yesterday he got high blood sugar again... i checked three times... 307/ 266/ and this morning it was 409.
    I was thinking he was going better but today i am so sad again and my vet doesn't think to start insulin yet.She wants to check for a while without medication.
    But I read forums and i'm completely confused and lost...
    I know Cats can get steroid-induced diabetes and he is is still under effect of steroids... I changed his diet from hills w/d to fancy feast canned food.
    I don't know what to do? I need your suggestions.

    Thank You,
     
  2. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Good Morning, Pallid ~

    So glad you've found this forum. There are so many experienced members here to help...ones with far more experience than I have. But I would like to tell you about our sweet cat, Willie. In 2007, she was diagnosed with steroid-induced diabetes. Our vet put her on Lantus insulin right away. With assistance from members of this forum, Willie went into remission in six weeks and remained that way for the rest of her life.

    I would respectfully disagree with your vet about starting insulin. Although blood glucose numbers might fall back into the normal range for some cats with steroid-induced diabetes, that doesn't happen with all cats. If your cat were mine, I'd tell the vet that I'd like to start my cat on a low dose of Lantus right away. The chance for remission is higher if insulin is started early.

    I'm sure other members will post soon with their suggestions.

    Hang in there. You'll get this under control soon.

    Take care,
    Eva
     
  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I agree with Eva. Your kitty needs the help of insulin. It may be only for a while and may be a small dose, but it is a hormone. If the body is missing it, it needs to be given. The pills often do not work; in most cases, they tax the pancreas and make it work harder.

    If your vet really refuses to give insulin, if it were my cat, I would call another vet. If you want to post your city and state, we might have someone nearby who knows a FD friendly vet. To be fair, vets have to treat all species, from snakes to cats to hamsters, and all their diseases. Unless they specialize, very few are up on the latest information on feline diabetes.

    BTW, fantastic that you are testing at home. If you hadn't been, you might have just continued along thinking your cat was doing better. Wonderful that you caught these numbers! And the diet change will also help over time. I am so glad you have been doing research and helping your kitty on your own.
     
  4. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I second what Sue said. It's great that you're already home testing your cat and that you've started him on Fancy Feast canned food. You have a good head start on getting your kitty's diabetes regulated fairly quickly if you can add insulin to what you're already doing. For most of us, giving the insulin injections is easier than testing, so I'm sure you'll have no problem giving your cat the insulin.

    Please let us know what you decide. The diagnosis of diabetes is scary at first, but once you have a good treatment plan in place, you and your cat can do it.

    Eva
     
  5. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello!

    Is the stomatitis being caused by tooth resorption? I ask because male Siamese cats are very prone to both tooth resorption and diabetes. The two often go together. If the underlying problem is being caused by tooth resorption (also called FORLs), then the steroids aren't going to be much help, and his mouth is just going to keep getting inflamed over and over again, causing the high blood sugar and diabetes. Check out this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline_odontoclastic_resorptive_lesion EDIT: I found another article online that also has some great information: http://web.archive.org/web/20060903201015/http://vmth.tamu.edu/hospservices/dentistry/FORL.shtml

    Tooth resorption in cats is believed to be genetic. It's unknown what sets it off (although there have been some studies that point to an excess of Vitamin D in cats' diets that causes it). There's no cure but extraction of the problem teeth.

    The only way to truly solve both problems is to have the offending teeth extracted. Bandit has had to have multiple teeth extracted on three occasions, to the point where he only has two teeth left (his lower canines). And your cat will be just fine with little or no teeth--especially now that dry food is out of the picture (Hills W/D is the worst food you can possibly feed a cat, and I believe contributed to causing Bandit's diabetes, so please don't ever go back to feeding it! Low carb canned Fancy Feast (the ones that say classic on the label) is a great food to feed: http://felinediabetes.com/glutenfree.htm).

    I've been in the exact same boat you are! I would ask your vet if the FORLs are the cause of the problem or go get a second opinion from another vet, because it is so common in male Siamese cats. If FORLs are the problem (and I bet they are), then the steroids aren't going to do anything but make his diabetes worse. If this is the case, the right treatment course would be to stop the steroids, diet change (which you've already done), starting insulin (a slow acting insulin like Lantus, with daily home testing), and having the bad teeth extracted. Once all that stuff is done, you can get the diabetes under control and he'll likely no longer need insulin.

    It is important to start the insulin sooner than later, though. You don't want the diabetes to get any worse while he's going through the extraction/healing process, and the sooner you start the easier it is to get him into remission. Vets often want to wait to start insulin because they don't want to risk hypoglycemia if the issue resolves and blood sugar lowers on it's own. What they don't realize is that this is not an issue if you're hometesting daily, just like a person with diabetes would. It's absolutely safe to give insulin as long as you start with a low dose and are home testing. After Bandit's last dental/extractions, both my regular vet and my emergency vet wanted me to wait two weeks to start him on insulin even though his blood sugar was through the roof. I explained to them that if he was a person, insulin would be started immediately with multiple blood checks a day, so why would treatment for him be any different? Diabetes doesn't work THAT differently in cats. My vet told me that waiting was their standard recommendation, but she trusted my decision and if she ever became diabetic she'd want me taking care of her. :smile: And you know what? Bandit was off insulin within a month. Took us a year the first time around because I waited on treatment.

    If you have any questions or need any advice through this process, please ask! Like I said, I've been exactly in your shoes!
     
  6. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hi, Julia ~

    Thanks for posting your info about tooth resorption. Our cat, Butters, has already had three teeth extracted a couple of years ago and may need another surgery or at least a dental. Could we expect to see his blood glucose numbers go down after surgery since inflammation should be reduced? Our vet wants us to wait on surgery until we get the diabetes well regulated, but my husband and I feel that the surgery might help with Butters' diabetes. What's your suggestion for the timing of surgery or a dental?

    Thanks,
    Eva
     
  7. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Steroid induced diabetes may be transitory, which may be why your vet is reluctant to start insulin.

    However, because you are testing, I believe that starting insulin is the best chance at a quick remission (if it is to happen at all) to reduce the damage on the pancreas caused by high blood glucose levels.

    I'd seriously push for either lantus or levemir (or prozinc) at a very low dose and see what happens!

    Jen
     
  8. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    His numbers will be high probably the first week after surgery as he recovers, but after that you will likely see a decline. My vet told me the same thing with Bandit--that she wanted to wait until he was regulated until she did the extractions, but after a month of awful, high numbers, I decided to get it done regardless. Take a look at Bandit's spreadsheet and see what his numbers do after the first dental (it's in purple in the notes)--I never would have gotten him regulated without it. I would definitely say get the dental/surgery done right away. If you wait until Butters is regulated you'll be waiting a very long time, since the inflammation in his mouth is likely keeping him with high BG.
     
  9. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

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    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Julia, I've already looked at your spreadsheet for Bandit many times. Your spreadsheet is a great reference. You've done such a wonderful job TWICE getting him into remission! I'm in awe!

    And thanks for your recommendation of having Butters' surgery done soon, Julia. You've confirmed what my husband and I have been discussing.

    Eva
     
  10. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hi Everyone,
    First Thank You For Your replies. It means a lot. I was feeling so down lately and lonely about this situation.
    I want to tell you the whole story so you can understand me better.
    My cat's name is Shanga. I've realized Shanga was not doing ok 6 months ago. And I went to my vet and He has diagnosed with Feline eosinophilic granuloma complex. He got his first depo medrol and depo antibiotics then. After that I've researched about this sickness from internet and checked the pictures.
    It was something different, it didnt look like what shanga had. He has wounds in the back of his hind teeth, redish, and has sticky saliva. I found out that was stomatitis. When I told about it to my vet, she said she didnt think that way. So i couldn't have said anything. She is the vet right???
    Then Shanga had his second shots and I was researching about steroids and found out they could be dangerous and has lots of side effects.
    My vet didnt listen to me and she said it was the only way to treat shanga. I kept researching and finally I changed the vet. Other vet said the same thing, to give him prednisolon 12.5 mg in the morning and 12.5 mg in the night time. Shanga just felt better for 3-4 days... Then I changed the vet again and even I told him I didnt want him to treat with steroids he said the same thing. ''HE NEEDS STEROIDS''.... and gave him depo medrol shots again and some vitamins... I was tired of this. Nothing changed of course. I went to the other vet a month later and he gave interferon and a day later shanga took his LAST depo medrol shot.( I am done with this).
    A week later I wanted to check his blood sugar... It was 425. I was shocked of course. I went to my first vet and she wanted to control his blood sugar with pills.
    Then she stopped the pills and she wanted to check his blood sugar level without medication. It has been 2 weeks. Shanga took serum for a week, his blood sugar is ok mostly but it changes suddenly... 2 days ago it was 160 in the morning, 147 at night but next day it was 257 and 323... Vet said that can happen, it can change in the day time because he is hungry or he has just eaten something etc etc etc. She doesnt want to start insulin. Because she believes that if we start to use insulin once it will be hard to leave insulin.( I read what you wrote or from internet she thinks completely wrong.) Sadly other vets think the same way. So if i start to use insulin i will do it on my own...
    I live in another country and I am trying to do my best for my cat... I feel so down. I want to do right thing for him but vet doesnt help me here.
    They all tell me to feed him with hills w/d. I give my cat fancy feast without my vets knowdledge because I know she will say I am wrong.
    I give interferon and it seems work but i can not tell to my vet about it with same reason.
    And I want to start insulin ASAP. I can learn everything from you. I want to do something before its too late...
    Thank You All Guys, I feel so much better because of you...

    Thank You,
     
  11. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    It sounds like you have been a wonderful advocate for your kitty and have not had a lot of help from the vets. What country are you from? Is there any chance you could get insulin without a prescription?

    As far as the food, your vet is not there when you open the can. My vet doesn't like Fancy Feast. We just don't discuss food.
     
  12. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Is the Feline eosinophilic granuloma complex all over his body or just in his mouth? Because that, stomatitis, and FORLs often look the same. If it's on his skin, how bad are the lesions? Are they tiny scabs?

    Most often the most effective way to treat conditions like this are to try and find the cause...here's a great article that discusses this: http://www.eastsideanimal.com/miliary dermatitis.pdf. The most common cause is a flea allergy, and the second most common cause is a food allergy. Even if you are sure your cat doesn't have fleas, I would try a flea treatment like Frontline Plus just to eliminate that possibility first. Then move on to the food--you can start by feeding a food with a novel protein source like rabbit or venison, and see if it solves the problem. If it does, you can slowly reintroduce foods one at a time to figure out where the allergy lies. The most common cat food allergy is fish.

    Unfortunately your vet has not kept up to date with feline diabetes. Insulin does not cause a dependency, nor is it addictive. Insulin is not a drug, it's a hormone. The only thing it does is lower blood sugar. That's it.

    Also the pills are NOT recommended for cats unless the owner refuses insulin therapy and is considering euthanasia. They work by forcing the pancreas to produce insulin and worsen the condition.

    I've attached an article for you to print out and give to your vet. You mentioned you're in a different country...where are you from? Is it an English speaking country? We have members from all over the world and maybe someone can suggest a good vet for you in the City where you live.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I am from Istanbul Turkiye. It's very hard to find to good food here. We have not all brands here. And I've just learned that Even fancy feast wont come again to Turkiye. Instead they will bring gourmet gold. ( and these foods have grains)... I think Im going crazy.
    Vets here just know about Hill's, Iams, Royal Canin and ProPlan and they all have grains. They dont accept when i said they are not good. So I will feed my cat my way.
    I want to send some pics that you can see how they look like in my cat's mouth... Both side of end of the teeth.
    http://www.dentalvet.com/patients/homec ... n_wide.htm ( first pic)

    http://www.petfinder.com/pet-health/fel ... intro.html

    And he has just in mouth these lesions not on his body. So it leaded me that it was a stomatitis and other vet said same thing. They didnt make any test but they all said its because of low immune system. That's why i started to use interferon.

    He uses frontline, I thought that can be from allergies so i changed his food 4 months ago ( Orijen -grain free dry food) but nothing changed. I said to my vet he has plagues on his back teeth but vet didnt find them important. As you see I am desperate with vets. So I am gonna treat my cat by myself...

    I just want to start to use insulin and i will ask for lantus tomorrow if i can have it... I hope you can help me with doses...

    Shanga's blood sugar was 101 today... It was strange. Because in the morning it was 409 and two hours later it was 101. And he doesnt let me to take his blood again. I completely killed his ears since 10 days, made billion holes and its really hard to take his blood lately... I read in this site neosporin ointment works well and i gave an order from ebay. We even dont have neosporin here... Ohh God...

    Thank You So Much You are helping me....
     
  14. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Breathe, Honey, breathe. We will help you through this. As long as you can test at home and find some lower carb food to feed him, you are halfway there.

    To help with his ears, be sure you hold the area where you poked for a few seconds after you poke. This will minimize bruising.

    One of those readings was most likely off. Once you and Shanga have a break, get some more of his favorite treats and try another test. If one ear is getting ragged, try the other one.

    It seems like we had a poster from Turkey once, does anyone else remember?
     
  15. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Try taking your blood glucose level with the meter and see if it is working correctly.
     
  16. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I do. Because I threw it by mistake couple of days ago but it seems working well on me... :?
     
  17. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Thank You very much :) But I think I killed the both of ears... I watch videos and i see people can take blood easily. But That doesn't come enough blood to measure most of the time from Shanga so i poke again and over again... I hope that neosporin will work on Shanga well... Otherwise there wont be any place to take blood on his ears in a couple of days...
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Well, one of those numbers is most likely wrong. If he were on insulin, this might be a big drop. But, off insulin, it is unlikely.

    Are you sure warming the ear? That was vital for us. And you need a larger gauge lancet like 25-27. If you are using a lancet holder with a plastic cap, try taking that off so you can really see where you are aiming.
     
  19. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    You can also double poke in the same place. Just a quick poke with the same lancet in the same spot. Sometimes that helps.
     
  20. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I was thinking same thing. Because it's a bit strange without insulin that happened from 409 to 101 in 2 hours.
    But i fed him at the night time and he didnt eat anything until 11 am today. Maybe thats why he had high blood sugar... I dont know. After he ate his fancy feast i waited for 2 hours to check and it was 101...
    In 6 days his blood sugar levels : 240-335-169-227-164-205-271-160-147-205-257-323-391-115-307-266-409-101

    I use roche accu check so i use the kit's lancet... I didnt know there are bigger lancets. I am gonna buy one tomorrow if i can find...

    Thank You for informing me...
     
  21. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Yes that's the way i can take his blood... After 2 pokes i can take enough... Sometimes not...
    I was crying yesterday because what i did to his ears... But I am gonna learn the best way about it... I have to...
     
  22. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    You just have to say to yourself that knowing his levels is saving his life. His ears will look better once they get used to the poking. It really doesn't hurt him, even as much as it hurt to take your reading. And the treat afterward will make all the difference to him. You are doing the best you can for him, in difficult circumstances. It WILL get better, we promise.
     
  23. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Thank You So Much. I really feel so much better.
    So I am buying lantus tomorrow and start to use it before it's too late.
    Hope friends here can help me with doses...

    Thank You Again :)
     
  24. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Their ears really do get use to testing, my little Musette gets tested very often throughout the day and her ears are just as pretty as they always were. If you look at my spreadsheet in my signature you can see just how often she gets tested, and below is a picture that I took of her just a couple days ago...you can see her ears are still just as lovely as if they had never been tested.

    [​IMG]

    Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
     
  25. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    We do have a member from Turkey! Hopefully she is around and can help you figure out insulin and food. Her name is Tifil&isil. I sent her a private message.
     
  26. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello ,

    Masette is such a sweet girl. I am glad her ears are doing great now. I've just tried to check my baby's blood sugar but he didn't let me. We are running in the house at the moment. He started to think we are playing. :lol:
    I am so glad that there is a member from Turkey. Thank You very Much for sending email to her :) I am gonna send email too... Hope She is around :)
    I'm gonna feed my baby now and I'm gonna check his blood sugar 2 hours later. Wish me luck :)

    Thank You,
     
  27. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I've just checked his blood sugar and It was 123.
     
  28. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    123 is a pretty normal number if a kitty is not on insulin. (The normal range, off insulin, is 40 - 120 with the majority of the time spent in double digits) I would keep taking his blood sugar levels at different times during the day, keeping track. Is he still on the oral medication?
     
  29. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    No he is not on the oral medication since 10 days. It has normal 123 but it can change.
    I checked in the morning 2 days ago that it was 115 and 147 at the night. But next day it went to 257 then 101 again.
    Completelely confused. :(
     
  30. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    That is confusing. Could it be that you are feeding some low carb food and then some higher carb food and that could make the difference? I don't know for sure if that could explain a jump of 100 points.

    Cats can experience rises and falls depending on feeding time. Generally, food raises the bg levels an hour or so after fed if the pancreas is not functioning well. And it lowers after feeding if the pancreas is working. Maybe you can keep track of food and numbers to see if you find a pattern?
     
  31. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I just feed Shanga with Fancy Feast since a week. But also I have a disabled cat. She eats dry food Origen, I am so careful about if Shanga eats her food. But maybe he finds a way to eat it sometimes. I really don't know. If he eats her food believe me its just a little.
    I know stress can cause high blood sugar on cats. I adopted my girl 10 months ago, eventhough she is disabled she is so active. She has no balance but she runs all day long and hit everywhere herself, playful one........ and she bothers Shanga sometimes.I am afraid of she is causing this.
    I am just thinking thinking and thinking and trying to do right thing ASAP.
    Thank you for your support Sue and Oliver :)
     
  32. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    You are doing fine - you are testing him and figuring out his diet. And he is in normal numbers part of the day. Do you think you could get your other kitty to eat lo carb wet? That could be the problem. In some cats, just a few pieces of dry can raise bg levels. Maybe feed her dry while you watch, then take it up and then leave some wet out during the day for her to snack on? She may decide she will try it if it is what is available?
     
  33. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    That is already what I do... But there is problem that she just likes to eat little by little. She eats for a min then leave and 10min later she eats again and maybe a hour later again ... I leave wet food for her too but she doesnt like it... Strange huh? She is the most crazy cat in the world :)
    But I'll be more careful about it because you said only few can cause high blood sugar...
    Im gonna check his blood sugar now, wish me luck :)
     
  34. Pallid

    Pallid Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    and 349 now... :?
     
  35. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Well that is a little odd....I can't quite say why numbers are fluctuating to this degree, especially if your cat is a nibbler, as eating smaller meals more frequently should in theory lead to more consistent blood glucose levels (ie due to fewer spikes from big meals).....

    Hopefully someone with stronger medical knowledge can jump in soon!

    Jen
     
  36. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    That is frustrating. What was the relation to food fed? What kind of food? (I know you are having trouble finding wet lo carb in Turkey.)

    It may be his medical issue also. Maybe he is in pain sometimes and pain and stress can raise bg levels.

    Hopefully our member from Turkey will post. She used Lantus so may be able to help with insulin and food choices.
     
  37. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I wasn't able to look at the pictures of Shanga's mouth because the links didn't work--is there any way to can post them again? If you put the link in the brackets, then it won't break up like that.

    My gut is really telling me that Shanga's problem is probably tooth resorption. Again, this is an incredibly common problem with male Siamese cats. If the lesions are just around his teeth and not all throughout his mouth (I'd like to see those pictures!), then I am reasonably sure that is the problem. Stomatitis (or the inflammation of the gums around the tooth) is a symptom of tooth resorption. Here are some more pictures to give you a better idea: http://www.mypetsdentist.com/site/view/113044_ToothResorption.pml

    If it is tooth resoprtion, if you have to have the problem teeth pulled it will likely solve most of Shanga's problems, including the high blood glucose. Depending on how he responds to the dental surgery, you may still need insulin for a short time. However, with his numbers going so dramatically high and low with no insulin, I'd be hesitant to start insulin right now. I'd try to make extra sure he's not getting into any high carb food, because swings like that on no insulin are strange. I suppose it could possible that pain from his mouth could be causing the higher numbers as well, but I hope someone else will comment on that.
     
  38. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Good Morning ~

    You're doing great with Shanga. I admire you for figuring out how to home test on your own. If dry food hasn't caused that 349, then Shanga should likely be on insulin. Shanga might need only a low dose of insulin if he's already dropping down into the 100s on his own. Maybe .25U twice a day would coax his blood glucose numbers down into the normal range? Wish we lived closer so I could share some of our cat's Lantus with you.

    Have any of the vets you've seen suggested that Shanga's problem is oral resorptive lesions? Julia has a lot of experience with this condition. This should be considered for Shanga.

    I wonder if it's possible for some cats with steroid-induced diabetes to have pancreases that are trying to recover which would cause large swings in blood glucose numbers? We didn't see that with our cat, Willie, but she was just one cat, one wonderful cat. Or maybe Shanga's infection/inflammation from his eosinophilic granuloma complex (or some other condition) is contributing to the swings in numbers. Hard to say, but ruling out the dry food would be a good first step.

    Turkey is a country I've always wanted to visit. Sounds so beautiful with many interesting places to see.

    Your love for your kitties shines through. You'll get this figured out. If you do start Shanga on insulin, this forum has some very experienced Lantus users who can help with dosing for Shanga.

    Take care,
    Eva
     
  39. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    He eats Fancy Feast Classic. Not in gravy or something. Its the best canned food here. I researched a lot and all of them have grains and high carbs.
    So It seems fancy feast is the best choice for now.
    He got his last steroid shot ( depo medrol) 3 weeks ago. So maybe he is still under effect. I dont know...
    Just too sad...
     
  40. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I want to add that if/when you do schedule the extractions, you're going to want to make sure that the vet is following the proper procedures for the safety of your cat. The vet should be monitoring vital signs throughout the procedure, and xrays need to be taken afterwards to make sure all the shards were removed since resorbed teeth shatter easily. Make sure you ask about this before you choose a vet to do the procedure.
     
  41. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
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  42. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    "He got his last steroid shot ( depo medrol) 3 weeks ago. So maybe he is still under effect. I dont know..." -- Yes, I believe he still is. But since three weeks have passed and he hasn't dropped into a normal blood glucose range on his own, then it's probably time to help his pancreas recover with small doses of insulin.

    "Just too sad..." -- Oh, I feel sad that you're feeling sad. You will be able to help Shanga! Sometimes we can feel so helpless when our cats are ill, and we don't know what to do for them, especially when the vets aren't much help. Members of this forum have a lot of experience with not only diabetes but many other conditions including what might be Shanga's problem. I really think Julia's advice on having Shanga examined for tooth resorption could help.

    Eva
     
  43. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Does it look like this?
    [​IMG]

    If it's concentrated around specific teeth, and not all throughout the mouth, it's probably tooth resorption. If the entire mouth is inflamed badly, it may be caused by an allergy or immune response. Have x-rays ever been done of his teeth? That would be the sure way to know. Although I know that in Bandit's case my vet was able to tell without doing x-rays that it was tooth resorption--inflammation right around the base line of specific teeth is the dead giveaway.

    If the back of the mouth looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    Then it's likely an allergy/immune issue.
     
  44. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Thank You All for your sincerety.
    I am just curious about if i start to use lantus on shanga if he has hypoglemicia??? Because as you know sometimes his blood sugar level is between 100- 115.
    And believe me Its not easy to take his blood... Its kind a war... Mum vs Shanga...
    Dear Eva, I live in Istanbul... and i agree with you to its a great place to visit ... And pls let me know if you decide to visit someday :)
    And Dear Julia I am trying to check Shanga's mouth and i couldnt see something like that but when he lets me to check better I will let you know. Thank You for informing me :) all I can tell at the moment he is going better after i use interferon on him. His breathe doesnt smell bad anymore and wounds are seeming better...
    Vets here didnt do anything about his oral problem... They all just gave steroids and antibiotic shots and let us back home... No x-rays, no lesion testing, nothing... ALL vets i went are super vets... They can understand by looking... ( sarcasm ofcourse) ...
    They didnt even warn me before giving him steroid shots about side effects, i didnt know they all needed to make blood test before giving him steroids...
    I am slepless, my eyes are burning because of researching and reading... and I am so glad I found here and I found you all guys...
    Thank You for being with me...
     
  45. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I know you've been to so many vets already, but maybe you should either go back to the best of them and ask if it's possible the cause of the stomatitis could be feline odontoclastic resorptive lesions, and if they think extracting the teeth would help the problem. You can tell them that you did some research and discovered that many cases of stomatitis are caused by resorption and that it's fixed by pulling the teeth. Maybe you can call around and see if there are any vets that are especially good with handling dental problems? I just feel so bad that poor Shanga has to deal with those teeth when most likely the problem is easily fixed with extractions.

    Bandit was in such pain when he had the tooth resorption problem. Half of his mouth was inflamed around his teeth, and I could tell that it hurt him to eat. Before I got rid of all the dry food, his mouth hurt so bad he was swallowing all of the dry food he ate whole, and then vomiting it up. I'm actually very relieved now that nearly all of his teeth are pulled, because I know that it's unlikely he'll have problems like that again.
     
  46. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Dear Julia ,

    Second pic is like what shanga has. But his mouth is not that bad. there are two wounds both side of behind the teeth and he has sticky saliva.
    All I know I wont use steroids again. I use human interferon for Shanga right now but I know virbac has virbagen omega interferon for pets. But we have not this in Turkey. I wanted to buy from UK but they dont sell it without prescription... and I found out Q10 works great on cats have oral problems...
    After I learned about his blood sugar level I completly focused that. Thank You for reminding me that he also have oral problems.
    I just think if i can treat Shanga's blood sugar problem, He will have to plague off surgery... Even vet said there is nothing important on his teeth. But I have eyes and I see very well he has plaques on his back teeth...
    I hope Shanga will be ok soon so will I...
     
  47. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Just a caution...

    Sometimes steroids ARE warranted to manage medical conditions...I've no idea about this condition but you might want to see what people here typically do. If you have to continue giving steroids you will likely have to treat diabetes long term as well, but we can help you with that!

    Jen
     
  48. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    From some reading I've been doing, it sounds as though Shanga needs a dental prophylaxis under anesthesia to really determine what's going on with his mouth and/or teeth. I believe Julia has mentioned this before and I've been reading it too that stomatitis and oral resportive lesions can both exist in a cat.

    veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/Medicine/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/306532 (this is the complete link)
    http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/ve ... ail/306532
    "Next, administer an inhalation anesthetic, and perform a dental prophylaxis. Perform a gross and radiographic examination of the oral cavity. Extract all teeth exhibiting FORLs and all teeth with advanced or end-stage periodontal disease. Also, remove any root fragments (best identified radiographically). Finally, obtain samples of the inflamed oral tissue by using a 4-mm skin biopsy punch at several locations of actively inflamed tissue, and submit them for histologic examination. A common site of inflammation is lateral to the palatoglossal folds (caudal stomatitis) (Figure 2).

    Histologic examination results in cats with feline gingivostomatitis show plasmacytic stomatitis or lymphocytic-plasmacytic stomatitis. There may be concurrent neutrophilic inflammation or even a superficial bacterial component, but the predominant population of cells will be plasmacytes and lymphocytes."


    Oh, Istanbul...what a fascinating city!

    Eva
     
  49. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I found a vet here Julia. I asked him about extracting. After I make under control my Shangas blood sugar, we will go to him. He said He will clean the plaques and then will make laser there and we will see if its working... He said extraction will be the last thing we will do... I check pictures online and shanga's mouth is not that bad now.
    I am so sorry for your kittie, I know how you feel, I am in same shoes at the moment but I am glad your kittie is doing good now... :) I am glad kittie has a mum like you :)
     
  50. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello,

    Sorry for my late welcome to FDMB. I just saw your post about not being able to find quality food in Turkey.

    If you don't mind a bit of work, you may want to consider making your own cat food - good quality & low carb/high protein. All my cats (except one) are on raw diet. I follow Dr. Lisa Pierson's recipe http://www.catnutrition.org/foodmaking.html. The best thing about making your own cat food is that you know exactly what your cats are eating and you can tweek the recipe to suit indiviual cat's special diatery needs.

    I have been feeding my kitties raw food over three years. Do you think this is something you could try with your diabetic kitty (or even your other kitty)? By the way, the recipe recommends getting a grinder. You don't need to get one right away. I started with just a regular food processor (for meat without bones) to test my kitty's taste bud. The combination of low carb/high protein diet and insulin treatment is an integral part of managing our sugar kitties' diabetes.

    I know how frustrating it is not to be able to find quality cat food. I am currently living in Saudi Arabia with five cats. Quality cat food doesn't exisit here but I am able to feed all my kitties low carb, hight protein food made with the best ingredients I can get. And of course, their food is made with love!

    Oh yes, Istanbul is one of my favourite cities. My husband and I were there in May. In fact, my husband lived in Turkey for 7 years. I used to work for a US-Turkish joint venture company in Croatia.
     
  51. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Dear Jen,

    I dont want to use steroids anymore because shanga didnt get better. If shanga would feel better or if i would see any improvement i would think about it.
    Vet made a blood test of Shanga last week . His liver enzymes needed to be under 100. But Shanga had 1008. This is the side effect of steroids.
    I know steroids can save a life but it didnt work on my boy...
     
  52. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Dear Eva,

    Shanga can not be under anesthesia at the moment. Last vet we went that wanted to clean his plaques under anesthesia but it didnt happen because we checked his blood sugar was 425. If I can keep under control his blood sugar level he can get treatment for his oral problems.
    I found out a vet here, he can make dental surgery. We just talked on the phone and he wanted me to start insulin and when the glucose level under control he will check everything and he is planning to make laser threapy for wounds...
    But Shanga's blood sugar level is crazy as you see. Its 100 then 400 2 hours later... I want to start lantus but i have questions about it...

    And Eva Istanbul waits for you :)
     
  53. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello KSAkitties ,

    Thank You for the website. I am gonna read this. But my question is - raw food means : without cooking right?
    I asked about rw meat to my vet and she said raw meat has lots of bacterias and so it can be dangerous for Shanga....
    I dont know if she is wrong but i read lots of people feed their kitties with raw food... I am gona read the website you sent.
    And I would really like to preapare my babies food on my own to add Love :)

    That's great you were here in Istanbul. Next time pls let me know when you are here. :) We can drink traditional turkish coffee together :)
     
  54. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello,

    Gum infection could increase kitty's blood sugar level. You don't need to wait till you get Shanga's blood sugar under control before getting his teeth cleaned. In fact, getting a dental may help reduce your kitty's blood sugar.

    Can you find out form the vet whether they do x rays at the clinic?
     
  55. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Yes. It's uncooked. Cats in the wild eat raw. I was initially very concerned about bacteria in raw diet but after doing a lot of research and seeing how well my kitties are doing now compared to when they were eating dry food, I have absolutely no doubt that I have made the right choice.

    Oh, let's have Turkish coffe with Kunafeh. I love manti, and of course Raki - my favourite drink.
     
  56. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Vet said he can not be under anesthesia if he has high blood sugar. Actually story is : I went to vet to clean shanga's teeth. While the vet was trying to find his vein, she decided to check his glucose level. Shanga was on the surgery desk but the glucometer said it was 425 and so vet stopped the surgery. She said It could be dangerous.
    So if its possible sure thing i want to do it ASAP...
     
  57. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    wooow you already know everything :)
    so You let me know next time you are here :) mmm Kunefe is really good idea :)
     
  58. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Shanga's blood sugar is 400.
    I've just checked :?
     
  59. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Oh, about your vet not supporting raw diet. This is my view and approach:

    I have met many vets who are against raw diet and are die hard kibble/dry food advocates but at the same time I have also met vets who are very supportive and encouraging of raw diet AFTER they have seen how their kitty patients thrive on eating raw. Likewise, I have also met vets who are absolutely against home testing but can you imagine how we can give our sugar kitties insulin without knowing their blood glucose numbers? I almost lost my boy Major because of a vet who really didn't know how to treat feline diabetes nor did he know much about feline nutrition/diet. My boy is still with me today because of FDMB. The bottom line - vets are not always right, and many vets do not know as much about feline nutrition as we think they should.

    I am now conditioned to second guess everything my vets tell me, I do my own research, and I check with other kitty mums who have the best interests to raise healthy and happy kitties then I use my OWN judgement to decide what's the best for my kitties.
     
  60. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    When can you get hold of insulin to start Shanga's treatment?
     
  61. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    '''When can you get hold of insulin to start Shanga's treatment?'''


    Tomorrow.....
     
  62. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    There are a few questions or points I'd like to raise

    1. BGs do not have to be lower to be under anaesthesia. However, diabetic cats in general may be considered more at risk, so its important if using anaesthesia to monitor blood pressure, etc.
    2. Dentals MUST be done under anaesthesia
    3. A dental may help your cat's condition but I'd want to make sure the vet knows what they are doing
    4. While commercially prepared raw food diets might be good quality over here in NAmerica, we can't know for sure about Turkey. You'd likely have to prepare yourself. For more info see www.catinfo.org
    5. a proper raw food diet won't harm your cat but if they are immune compromised you'd have to be careful. My vet cautioned me not for my cat's health but for my children, as cats can shed bacteria like salmonella, putting my children at risk.
    6. again, I think you need a second opionion about how to treat this mouth condition :(
    7. I wonder what else is going on to cause these fluctuations....
     
  63. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    1- Vet told me that way. Shanga was on the surgery desk and she stopped the surgery after she checked his blood sugar. She said its dangerous.
    2-Thank you for that information ... I just hate more from the vet now :)
    3-I dont know anymore if the vets know what they are doing...
    4-I think I will prepare myself. Atleast Im gonna try...
    5-I believe in your vetafter read billion things about raw food.
    6-I already changed 4 vets and I am tired of it...
    7-Me too dont know and so sad...


    Thank You.... :)
     
  64. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Do you know what type of insulin your vet will give Shanga?

    Or do you know what type of insulin to ask for?
     
  65. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Can you please ask your vet to take a look at Shanga's mouth and teeth tomorrow?

    Please ask the vet to describe exactly what he or she sees inside Shanga's mouth. Please come back to us with what the vet told you then collectively maybe we can try to figure out what Shanga may have. A friend of mine has sucessfully treated her cat with mouth / teath problems (stomatitis and FORAL) and prepared a document on how she did it.

    I can email you what she sent me.
     
  66. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    A warning--if your vet is going to wait until the blood sugar is under control to do the dental, you may be waiting forever. Dental problems can cause high blood sugar, and only after the dental is done does the blood sugar come back under control. I think it's questionable what is causing the stomatitis, an you should ask for xrays before the dental. Tooth resorption will show up in an xray. That will tell you whether teeth need to be extracted or not. Even if it's the other condition, a dental will help reduce the bacteria in the mouth and should make things better for a while at least. However, I would not hesitate to pull the teeth if tooth resorption is the problem. It does not get better, you have to get rid of the bad teeth in order for the kitty to get better.
     
  67. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello KSAkitties ,

    My vet doesn't start insulin. She wants to check without medication. Other vet said same thing. This is why I am asking that if it would be better to start insulin for my baby. I think most of the vet here believes if i can start to use insulin once it will have to go this way forever. I called almost 10 vets. Just 2 of them said to me to start Lantus.
    I was at the vet 3 days ago. She checked his wounds and said they are going better. 4 vets checked his mouth until now and All of them said its because low immune system of him. They also said Its genetic. ''WITHOUT TEST''...
    Other vet made blood test last week and the results were unbelievable... She said its because steroid shots. When the steroids competely leave Shanga's body she will make new test... I am so tired of vets, I dont know which vet is the best for shanga. I talked with almost 50 vets, changed 4 vets, i did what they wanted,but vets couldnt find a cure for Shanga...
    I just want to start Lantus before it's too late.
    I found a vet very far away from me , i dont know if he is good but it seems he can make oral treatment. I feel just so desperate...
    Thank You Everyone for informing me here for oral treatment causes high blood sugar levels. I really didnt know about it... So I think I will have to start from dental treatment first... then start Lantus. What do you think guys? My brain stopped.... :YMSIGH:
     
  68. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello again ~

    We're all thinking of you and Shanga. I really feel for you having to call around 10 vets to try to find one who can help. But I love how you're looking out for Shanga with all you're doing. Thank you for taking care of him so well.

    I just read this: "His liver enzymes needed to be under 100. But Shanga had 1008. This is the side effect of steroids."
    I wanted to mention that two years ago our cat Butters had an extremely elevated ALT (liver enzyme) number of 1535, the highest our vet had ever seen. Of course, this had my husband and me very worried about our cat. Shortly after that, Butters had surgery to extract three teeth due to oral resorptive lesions. After the surgery, Butters' ALT number started dropping down quickly and was in the normal range in a couple of months where it's remained. His ALT was 79 this past July. Our vet didn't believe that resorptive lesions (infected teeth) would have this kind of effect on ALT, so he was quite surprised at the outcome.

    I'm wondering if Shanga's elevated liver enzymes could be from his mouth/dental problems as well as the steroids?

    Whether or not to start insulin now could depend on how quickly you're able to arrange a dental for Shanga. If Shanga were my cat though, I'd be inclined to start a low dose of Lantus even before the dental if you're able to continue the home tests as you've been doing.

    Take care,
    Eva

    P.S. "And Eva Istanbul waits for you :) " -- :D Thanks! And if you're ever in the Chicago area...
     
  69. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hi Eva,
    Thank You for informing me about liver enzymes. So I really dont know if that happend because of steroids or of his dental problem...
    I am learning more every sec because of you... Thank You so Much.
    So I need to not wait for his blood sugar under control. I will have to take him to new vet on Monday... I just didnt know dental problems would cause all of these and it seems my vet doesnt seem to know either... ohmygod_smile
    I am so glad your kittie is doing well now, hope shanga will be ok soon too...:)
    Eva, I want to start to use Lantus but I dont know about the doses. If someone would help me with this I would be really thankful....

    Thank You so much my friend....
     
  70. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    If Shanga were my kitty, I would start the insulin right away. High glucose numbers for a period of time could cause organ damage AND lead to DKA (a potentially fatal condition). Are you testing your kitty's urine for presence of keytone? Even when your kitty is on insulin, I would still recommend that you test his urine keytone daily, especially Shanga's BG sometimes runs as high as 400's. Can you get the urine sticks at your local pharmacy?
    Some cats are prone to have keytone but some some cats aren't. I’d like to be on the cautious side so I would test Shanga, if he were my kitty.

    Many kitties, including my Major, came off insulin after a few weeks or a few months of insulin treatment AND after their diet is changed from high carb (dry or wet food) to low carb/high protein diet. My boy came off insulin 16 days after I changed his diet to completely raw AND changed his insulin from Lente to PZI (Note: Lantus is good. You don't need to use PZI). He remained insulin free for over threes years until he was attacked and injured by another cat 6 months ago. So the vets who told you that your cat will be on insulin forever are wrong. Yes, some cats may need insulin for the rest of their lives but many are able to come off insulin / off the juice (OTJ) as we call it here.

    I know how you feel. It is not easy to find a good vet in some parts of the world. I ended up doing many of the treatments for my five cats and the cats I rescued myself.

    You can start doing some treatments at home before you find a good vet who knows what s/he is doing. I want to send you the 'stomatitis and gingivitis treatment' document my friend prepared after she successfully treated her kitty's sever stomatitis herself. Her document mentions about symptoms, diet change (also good for diabetes as her kitty is also diabetic), ways to support immune system, products she used to treat her kitty’s stomatitis. Please send me a private message with your email address using the PM function on the top left hand corner of the page (under User Control Panel).

    I agree with you.

    A good vet is worth the travel. I usually ‘interview’ the vet first without bringing my kitty with me to the clinic for the first appointment. I don’t want to stress my kitties for nothing. If the vet is good then I will make an another appointment. Can you ask him some questions to ‘test’ his knowledge on oral treatment before making the trip?

    Others may offer a different opinion but I would do both – start the dental and give insulin. I would even start the insulin now while you keep looking for a vet who is qualified to do dental and knows what he is doing. Insulin will take off some load from your kitty’s probably already compromised pancreas. I look at insulin as some extra help to my kitty’s pancreas so his pancreas can have a chance to heal. I don’t see the harm of starting the insulin for Shanga now.
    I usually ‘test’ the vet by asking a set of questions related to the dental procedure and see how he answers my questions. I also ask the vet about what type of pain killer or antibiotics s/he uses, if they are given at all. Metacam (marketed as a pain killer) was commonly used after dental procedures in some parts of the world is known to cause acute renal failure and death; therefore, if the vet tells me s/he uses Metacam, I would ask the vet if s/he has another type of pain killer. I know I could be a pain in the rear end when it comes to my kitty’s health care but I rather be safe then sorry.
     
  71. ISIL&TIFIL

    ISIL&TIFIL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello,
    I am Turkish also,
    Please contact me I am in Ankara. 05324560649
     
  72. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    It was nice to meet you Isil. :)
    Thank You for your friendship...
     
  73. ISIL&TIFIL

    ISIL&TIFIL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    It was a pleasure for me to meet someone so elegant like you. I hope our kitties will heal as soon as possible. And I hope they can find the vets of their dreams :)
     
  74. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hi, Pallid and Isil ~

    How wonderful that you two could meet on FDMB. Sorry it had to be over feline diabetes though. Wishing good health for both of your kitties, Shanga and Tifil.

    Take care,
    Eva
     
  75. ISIL&TIFIL

    ISIL&TIFIL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Thank you Eva, I love FDMB :)
     
  76. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hello Eva and İsil :)

    Thank you both for your kind support and good wishes.
    I wouldn't stand up for this if you wouldn't be there for Shanga and me :)

    Love FDMB :)
     
  77. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hellooo,

    Shanga's blood sugar was 425 in the morning.(He was hungry)
    I've just checked shanga's blood sugar 2 hours after i fed him. It is 114 now.
    I've realized something... In the morning if he didnt eat something its mostly high. But after I fed him his blood sugar is turning to normal.
    He ate his last food at 02.00 am last night and after 7 hours Ive checked his blood sugar,It was 425. But now 114.
    So what do you think about it?

    Thank You,
     
  78. Eva & Butters

    Eva & Butters Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2010
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Good Morning, Pallid ~

    I see that Sandy (Sandy and Black Kitty) has given you some good suggestions on the Lantus Board. Feeding Shanga mini-meals throughout the day and into the evening might help reduce those wide swings in blood glucose numbers that he's experiencing.

    Certainly worth a try, Pallid.

    Take care,
    Eva
     
  79. ISIL&TIFIL

    ISIL&TIFIL Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Dear Pallid,
    I will send you a link from my mail. I bought a automatic feeder. It is much cheaper then the others and it is very useful. You can put small amounts of food in it, you record your voice and you set the time. It's perfect for diabetic cats...
     
  80. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Dear Eva,
    Thank You For your advice. I was feeding Shanga 4 times in a day but I will make it more... and see the results. :) The problem is he is used to having open buffet. I was putting his food once in a day and he would go to eat whenever he wants. Now It's something really new for him and believe me he doesnt like that.
    And after I feed him last time at the night, he needs to wait to eat until morning and I've realized that it causes high blood sugar on him in the morning. So I think an automatic feeder will work for that...


    Thank you Isil. Shanga will be happier with his new feeder :)
    He gives you a kiss :)
     
  81. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hellloo,

    Shanga's Blood Sugar is fluctuating. In the mornings when he is angry ,it is about 400. Then I feed him and 2 hours later without insulin it goes 120-170... His blood sugar is more stable in the day time.
    It's going up at the night time again.
    I am compltely confused how I use the Insulin on him...
    I talked with another vet again today. He said Dont start insulin because he can get hypoglycemia...
    I need your advices, lantus will arrive tomorrow morning....


    Thank You very much...
     
  82. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    I think it was suggested that you feed him several small meals day and night as it seems his numbers go down after eating. Have you tried that?

    I agree that starting insulin may be a problem if he goes from 400 to 100 on his own.
     
  83. Pallid

    Pallid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Re: MY CAT'S BLOOD SUGAR WAS 409 THIS MORNING, I NEED HELP..

    Hi Sue and Oliver,

    Tonight, I fed him 01.30 am then 05.45 am again. (I woke up to feed him and seeing results in the morning ) As you said several small meals diet works on his blood sugar well. And I checked his blood sugar at 09.15 am this morning...It was 225 :)
    I was feeding him before I go to bed once at the night.I think I will have to feed him more at the night time...

    Thank You for informing me :)
     

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