My diabetic kitty has the vet stumped!

Hi all,

This is my first post on this board.

My 12-year-old female spayed kitty, Casey, was diagnosed with diabetes in mid-November. She'd gone from 11 lbs. in September to a scrawny 7.5 lbs, although she was eating and drinking normally.

Her first visit her blood glucose level was a startling 690. The vet started her on 2 units of Glargin insulin twice a day, in addition to the 2 mls of Lactulose I was giving her for constipation (which had been diagnosed in July - her blood glucose levels were normal then).

In mid-December I took her back, and her blood glucose was still 'off the charts' (the meter at the vet's only goes up to 450; it was too high to read.) The vet upped her to 3 units twice a day.

Because of the holidays and illness, I couldn't take her back for a curves test until today. Her blood glucose is STILL crazy high - it dipped down briefly to about 450, but then went back up again. The vet thinks she might have an infection and put her on 1 1/2 mls of Amoxicillin twice a day for the next two weeks.

The vet also upped her to 4 units of insulin twice a day, but tells me that's as high as we can go. He can't figure out why her levels are still so high. She's on a special Iams Prescription Low Residue dry food for her constipation, and she gets a container of Meow Mix Market Select wet food a day.

She's acting fine - pooping, peeing, eating, drinking, you'd never know she was sick by her behavior. I'm wondering if the vet is missing something - or does this happen sometimes?

I'm a little nervous about giving her 4 units of insulin and then walking out the door to go to work - I'm afraid I'll come back to a seizing cat! But I can't watch her every minute, I have a full-time job. How will I know if I'm giving her too much insulin? The sites I've gone too aren't very specific about timelines.

If anyone has any ideas, or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks!!

Sarah B

 

Welcome to the board! You will get tons of great support here!

I'm sure others can explain it better, but it's possible that she is getting too much insulin and is having what's called Somogyi rebound. Basically, it works like this: The cat's body, having adjusted to being diabetic, is used to a certain blood glucose level. Insulin is introduced, which brings this level down. For a cat with a starting BG of 450, for example, a drop to 250 could trigger a "bounce" as we call it. The liver says "Hey, wait, the BG is dropping! Holy cats, that's bad!" and drops glucogon into the bloodstream to compensate for the lower number that it's not used to. This sends the BG sky high. Seeing the high numbers, more insulin is give, perhaps evena higher dose. The numbers come down, the live freaks out, and the cycle is on!

A 7 lb cat would normally start out at 1 unit, so it's possible your cat was overdosed from day 1, causing this chronic rebound condition.

Are you testing her blood glucose at home? If not, I strongly suggest you start, especially before giving such a high dose of insulin. You're right to worry about hypos. Plus, if you home test, you can see where your cat heads normally during an insulin cycle. You can use an inexpensive human meter, and it's not hard to learn, though it does take practice. If you click on the "Mikey's SS" link on my signature, you can see the spreadsheet that most of us use to track our cat's BG levels through home testing. My cat drops to very low levels even on a very small dose; if I hadn't been hometesting all along, it's likely that I would have lost him. Hypos can be fatal. I now know my cat's cycles and how he reacts to insulin, so I can tell if he's bouncing after a particularly good cycle. It helps so much, and also, the numbers at the vet's are very likely elevated by stress...my cat typically tests much higher at the vet's due to stress raising the BG. If my vet dosed based on those numbers, an overdose or chronic rebound is more likely.

 

Welcome to you and Casey. There's tons of great information available here, along with years and years of very wise advice and helpful experience from people who've dealt with every kind of cat illness imaginable and glargine is a widely-used insulin so there will be undoubtedly lots of great advice coming your way soon.

Dry food might be contributing to the ongoing high numbers, as well as the constipation. Dry food, even the high-end and prescription stuff, is bad for cats. Personally, I detest anything with the words Iams or Science Diet on the label, but that's just me - others might have a better opinion of those brands. If there are no other health issues besides the diabetes and constipation, you might consider a different dry food, I think EVO has a lower carb dry food, or better yet, get rid of it completely and go to an all canned food diet. Removing dry food can have an immediate and significant effect on blood glucose levels.

Do you test Casey's BG levels at home?

 

Welcome to you and Casey!

My sugar Bean dropped from 11.9 to 8lbs... I moved out of state and thought she was depressed. I had never heard of fd....My vet told me not to home test and raised her from 1 unit to 2 units after the first curve.

Please please please consider home testing...it will make all the difference in the world to Casey and to you too! ;-)

I found this site... didnt raise her totally but did a bit and she almost hypoed the first successful test we did at home....she was 27 and only 2 hours after shot. Was very very scary and this forum helped me thru that terrible night and she is STILL with me today. She has not been back to the vet since that first curve day. She eats raw foods that momma makes and canned low carb diet from the list this forum supplied.

With all that said, do you have any other clues that she would have an infection of any kind? blood work, etc.??

I would side with Mikeysmom and just maybe she should be on 1 unit and see what happens???

There will be soo much support that you and Casey will receive ~ it will be unbelieveable! Hang in there. We are all here to help each other and their furry families... Keep posting and keep checking in

 

Thanks for the advice, everybody, but now I'm totally confused.

My cat's been at the vet 3 times, all three times they worked up a curve on her (including the first time, before she'd been given any insulin at all) - and you're all saying she's been getting way too much insulin from day 1? She's never hypo'd or even come close - she's acting better now than she ever has. That's the strange thing, she's gained weight and is perky but her blood glucose levels are very high.

Dry food is bad? How does my vet not know this? Casey's been seen by three different vets at the pet hospital I take her to and none of them have said to take her off the dry food (although what I'm giving her does come in canned, maybe I should try that.)

And no, I haven't been monitoring my cat's glucose level at home yet. Where do I get a blood monitor?

Also, how much insulin should I give her before I go to work tomorrow? 4 units? 3? 1? Now I'm freaking out...

Do you guys think I should switch vets? It's starting to sound like none of the vets seeing Casey know anything about treating feline diabetes...

 

Hi there

The thing is, because you haven't been testing at home (not your fault), you don't know if your cat is getting too much or too little insulin. And the dry food could definitely be contributing to the higher numbers.

I can't tell you to switch vets, but I can tell you that all vets should know that diet plays a role! There are dry foods made for diabetics but we all think that they are less than steller. Better is a canned food that is higher in moisture and protein and lower in carbs. Better for diabetes and much better for kidney and urinary health.

Hometesting is the best tool you can have, is relatively easy to do and saves a ton of heartache and money. the feline diabetes faq is the best source of info for you to start ok and is linked in stickies above this post.

Jen

 

I'm not a vet, so I can't say for sure what the issue is. A couple of notes about vets: In vet school, they have to learn about many different problems with multiple species of animals. Diabetes might be a one-day seminar for some, and may be about cats and dogs. That's not a lot of time to research and understand a complex disease. Add to that that the nutrition seminars are often sponsored by the food companies...guess which foods are pushed as the best? So, based on that limited exposure, many vets believe that a dry diet is fine, especially a prescription diet. And those prescription foods? It's the food companies that labels them as prescription diets, not the FDA. Many vets just don't know better.

In reality, dry food isn't good for ANY cat, and neither is any canned food with grain in it-cats are obligate carnivores whose bodies are made to eat only meat.The canned prescription foods for diabetes aren't any better than the low-carb commercial options, just more expensive.

Here is a link about nutrition and diabetes, written by Dr. Lisa, who posts here on the board. You may want to share it with your vet. http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

Without knowing your cat and seeing consistent test numbers, we can't say for sure that she is getting too much insulin, but that it is one possibility. You may want to ask your vet if they know about Somogyi rebound-if they don't, it could explain a lot about their dosing. If the curves have only been done at the vet's, it's very possible that they are dosing based on inflated numbers...which could lead to too high a dose, which could lead to chronic rebound. It could be something else entirely, but you should discuss this possibility with your vet. There are also some conditions, such as acromegaly, that keep insulin from working properly. Some members here have acro cats and can provide more info to you, I'm sure.

Cats do not have to go hypo or even into normal numbers to trigger a rebound. If a cat has adjusted to a BG of 400 and suddenly drops to 200, it could trigger a rebound.

Here is a link you can share with your vet on the Roomp-Rand protocol for dosing with Lantus. It is an up-to-date protocol with a high remission rate. You can print it out and bring to your vet as your vet is raising the dose by more than is recommended and started higher than the usual starting dose. http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf

 

Hi Sarah,
Home testing - you asked where you can get a glucometer? At the top of the index page, there's a link that says "Home Testing Kits. Need One?" Click on that and you can get everything you need to test at home for the price of shipping!

Here is a link to a great page on feline nutrition. It explains the problem with dry food in general, and specifically why it isn't good for diabetic cats. Maybe print some out and share it with your vet? Or just email them the link.
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

The normal starting dose for glargine (Lantus) is .25u /kg of ideal body weight. If your cat was at 8-10 pounds, ideally, then the starting dose would be 1u, twice a day.

Here is a link that will tell you all about the insulin your vet has prescribed-
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139 There are a lot of links within that page that will tell you a lot more.

Carl

 

Everything in your arsenal for treating feline diabetes can be treated with human products - your glucose monitor, test strips, lancets, and insulin can all be purchased at a normal pharmacy. Walmart has a brand called Relion which is a good option because it is inexpensive and usually pretty convienent to get.

Depending on your financial situation there are food options for nearly every brand out there. Kazi eats Fancy Feast (any of the Classic flavors are low carb and good for a diabetic). Do a google search for Janet & Binky's food charts for the GA of many brands out there - you want to stick with anything 8% or less in carbs.

As the others have said 4 units is awfully high. The problem with doing a curve a the Vet is STRESS. Stress causes blood sugar to spike abnormally high, so curves ran at the Vet are usually not an accurate representation of how the insulin normally affects your kitty.

 

Welcome to FDMB!

First, take a breath. Let's take things one step at a time.

As others have noted, home testing is a great way for you to be in control of managing Casey's diabetes. If you are near a Walmart, their store brand of glucometer, the Relion, is inexpensive and the strips are also inexpensive. You can also click on the button at the top of the board for a home testing kit. A "newbie kit" including a glucometer and strips will be sent for the cost of postage. The people here can help with all sorts of tips on how to get started with home testing.

One of the many reasons that home testing is important is that many cats experience much higher numbers at the vet's office. Blood glucose levels rise from stress. You will have a far more accurate reading once you are testing in the comfort of your home. Also, you won't have to keep spending money on having the vet do a curve. This is something you can easily do yourself.

I would also not change food until you are testing. Most of the Iam's dry foods are well over 20% carbohydrate. We encourage people to feed low carb -- less than 10% carb and most people here feed canned food that is well below that carb count. You may want to take a look at this website on feline nutrition that is written by a vet, Lisa Pierson. There are also two food charts, Janet & Binky's list and this spreadsheet with nutrition values that will help you select low carb food. In addition, the lactulose that you've been giving for constipation contains sugar. In all likelihood, the food and lactulose is balancing out the amount of insulin you've been giving. I wouldn't change anything until you are home testing.

Once you have a meter in hand and have started testing, you can think about transitioning Casey from the high carb food to lower carb food. You will need to be attentive to the test results. Many cats experience a considerable drop in their blood glucose numbers when they switch to low carb food. As a result, their insulin dose may need to be reduced.

While there may be vets in your area that are more knowledgeable about feline diabetes, there are an awful lot of people here who can share stories of vets who need to do a lot of homework on this topic. They may be great vets when it comes to any number of other illnesses but not so much when it comes to diabetes. And, you do need a vet. You can certainly switch vets. If you let people know what city/state or province you live in, there may be people here who can recommend a vet (or recommend vets to avoid). I have a great vet. She also knows that I am capable of making decisions about Gabby's Lantus (glargine) dose and what to feed her. She has access to Gabby's spreadsheet where I record her numbers. In other words, we work together.

 

You have gotten some great advice! I do know changing from dry food (even diabetic dry) to wet food will do wonders for the high numbers. Garland went from 400's to the 200's on the diet change alone. Dry food is so bad for a kitty. We use the orange box of classic Fancy Feast.

 

Hi guys and welcome to the board! It's all overwhelming isn't it? Lots of information thrown at you, that your vet never even mentioned .. Most of us have been right where you are .. scared, nervous and confused .. but there is SO much information on this board, that you will soon feel very confident in taking care of casey .. We can help you through it .. like others have said, take a deep breath and know you can do this and that you will do this for casey ..

Read up, ask questions, ask more questions and then ask more questions

It will get easier, we promise!

 

Welcome! And just wanted to add that infection can cause higher numbers. So if there is an infection and it is helped with the antibiotics, her numbers may come down some from that as well. Another reason to be testing at home. There may even be a member near you who can help you with the home testing. Keep us posted please.

 

Welcome!

I just want to second what Sienne mentioned, that the high blood sugar caused by the dry food and lactolose is probably balancing out the high dose of insulin, so you really need to begin home testing and lower the dose while changing the diet. Most cats will see a 100-200 point drop in blood glucose levels from the diet change alone, so if you change the diet without testing or lowering the dose it can cause a deadly hypoglycemic incident for your cat.

Most people here use Miralax for their constipated cats, which contains no sugar and does not raise blood sugar levels. Also, the switch to canned food should also help with the constipation quite a bit--cats solely on a dry diet are usually chronically dehydrated (cats have low thirst drives need moisture with their food--they evolved in the desert and don't drink enough on their own to compensate). Dehydration is a common cause of constipation.

 

Hi, and welcome to the board.

I have 2 diabetic cats. They are siblings. The female, Bobbie was diagnosed last may when we took her in for poor appetite and weight loss. Her brother Judah was diagnosed in Dec . when he was in for a UTI.

I am very lucky in that because of the advice I have been given here, both my cats blood sugar is under control by diet only. You see, many vets don't know or understand that dry food, even if it is labeled as RX dry food for diabetes is BAD for your diabtetic cat and will raise their blood sugar.

We had Bobbie on insulin twice a day and the RX food and she just wasn't getting any better. I found this site. I took their advice and bought the Relion meter at Walmart. It is very easy to use. I learned to test at home.

I read all the info about various cat foods. I took her off all the RX food(which she didn't like anyway) and she only eats Friskies canned Pate foods. I started testing her. I did a very simple journal. I tested first thing in the morning before she ate,a couple hours after she ate in the morning, mid afternoon before she ate her second meal of the day, and again in the evening about an hour after she ate her last meal of the day. This worked for us- but the others reccommend a spreadsheet so please follow their advice.

Within two days of hometesting this way and beginning the Friskies Pates Bobbie's blood suagrs were all in the normal range and she hasn't had a shot since.

My vet is a good guy. He cares about my cats, but he really didn't know much more about feline diabetes than I did. I probably would not have my girl here today healthy and feeling spry again if I had contiued to give her shots and feed her dry food. I told him about home testing and her change of diet and he is very supportive of what we are doing. So when her brother was diagnosed we did the same thing. His numbers are back down to normal again.

I don't know nearly as much as the other folks here, but my advice would be to stop feeding the RX food and feed only canned food that is reccommended through the links on this site.And to buy a meter and begin home testing. Pets can test as much as 100pts higher at the vets than at home due to stress.

I hope your baby is feeling better real soon!

 

To summarize:

1) learn to do home testing

2) read up on your insulin in the relevant subforum

3) read up on hypoglycemia mangement and obtain the supplies needed. (Many of us have needed to follow those instructions!)

Begin changing things 1 at a time

4) find low carb foods in your budget and switch. This can lower glucose levels 100 points, so this could be a good time to start over with the insulin dose at 1 unit. You may find the lactulose is no longer needed.

5) if still needed after changing to all canned low carb food, check with vet about switching from lactulose to Miralax and do it if its OK. This may reduce the insulin needs a bit, which testing will show.

6) follow the insulin guidelines for dose management, which use your home testing results.

 

Hi Sarah. Hope you get some normality soon. I can't offer advice (still wet behind the ears myself and fresh from panicking about my cat all night) but here, have an e-cuppa.
((hug))
nat

 

Thanks for the e-cuppa and advice everyone! I really appreciate it!

I called the vet's office this morning and talked to a different vet than the one I saw yesterday. We're going to look at switching Casey's diet gradually, and how her numbers are after she's been on the antibiotics for a few weeks.

I also went to Walgreens and got a True2Go blood glucose monitor (only $10 and with a rebate it's free!) so I can keep track of Casey's BG levels. I took her first reading tonight before I gave her her evening meal and shot, and it was 369. I called the vets and let them know, and they recommended taking it once a day, in the morning before I feed her and give her her AM shot. I thought Casey wouldn't like getting her ear pricked, but she didn't even notice.

I guess we'll see what happens! I'll keep you all informed. Thanks again for all the great advice! Say, where's a good place to get inexpensive TrueTest strips?

 

Great news about home testing and the vet having no objections! That's really terrific, it sounds like at least one of the vets at the clinic are willing to work with you when there might be information available that isn't in agreement with their recommendations. A lot of vets have a 'my way or you're on your own' practice philosophy, so you should be encouraged.

Congratulations on a successful first test! Now that you've taken those giant first steps of getting the meter and your first vampiring of Casey's ear...it's really safest if you test her twice a day, minimum. The Lantus users will give more advice on what the test results mean and how to proceed, things like how that type of insulin works from the nadir of the cycle (which I *think* is ~midway between a.m. shot and p.m. shot, so you'd need to test around that midpoint time too), how long to keep a particular dose and such. The members here can help you through darn near anything having to do with a cat!

There are lots of 'stickies' in the Lantus forum with all kinds of information - you might want to read through them all as time allows.

I hope you're feeling a little less overwhelmed than yesterday! Each day you will learn a little more and then a little more and then a little more - and pretty soon you'll be an old hand at it. It's a big learning curve, but you'll get through it!

 

Congrats on a successful first test. Make sure to give a low carb treat after and Casey will soon be trained to come for tests. Low carb treat suggestion: freeze dried chicken.

I've never heard of the type of meter you bought. The thing with dibetes supplies is that the meter is usually free. It's the strips that cost the money. I got a ReliOn from Walmart because the strips were the cheapest I could find and they didn't need a lot of blood to get a reading. I would think they would sell the strips where you got your meter. I'll be curious to hear if they are expensive or not.

You need to test (at least) before you give each shot just like a human diabetic would. You wouldn't give yourself insulin without testing first and the same goes with your cat. The process is test, feed, shoot.

What is your hesitation about switching food?

 

I don't have any hesitation at all - the vet just suggested that we not make any huge sudden diet changes just now, while we're trying to bring her levels down.

And just one quick question- how long does it take for the ear to heal after you prick it? Testing twice a day, I'm afraid Casey's ears will look like a punk rocker's!! How do you test multiple times a day and not run out of kitty ear real estate?

 

I don't know your meter, rarely mentioned on here, but I do remember a post about meters that start with True are not good to use.

As for the ears, quite a few of us are now into 8+ years of testing........Mishka alone gets tested a minimum of 4 times a day and always on the EDGE of her right ear. It is fine and no vet would be able to tell which ear I use to test. After pricking the ear and getting blood just remember to apply a little pressure on the ear to minimize bruising and stop the bleeding.

 

Really? This was the meter that Rebecca, the webmaster, recommended in her sticky (the link is at the bottom of the post, where she talks about Walgreens):

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you remember the post that says meters that start with True aren't good, please let me know where it is. I'd like to check it out. Thanks!

 

Well, I stuck Casey's ear this morning before I fed her and got 290. I must have hit a big vein, there was a lot of blood! She got annoyed and ran off before I could take a drop off her ear, but there a large drop on the floor so I used that to 'feed the meter'.

I'll test her again tonight when I get home and see what happens!

 

Yes, please test before each insulin injection. It sounds like you are using Lantus, whihc is what we used. My vet has some experience w/FD and he knew to put Cedric on the Lantus, but we started at 1 unit twice a day. It's really important that you test your cat before each shot, especially since you are giving her that much insulin.

Cedric went off insulin after about a month thanks to diet change, exercise (we had just moved into the townhouse i bought when he was dx'd), and great advice from not just my vet but many people here on these message boards.

i did switch Cedric to a grain free, high protien, low carb wet & dry diet (the dry I bought was Blue Buffalo's Wilderness), but if you look at his spread sheet below, when i took the dry food away, his numbers dropped about 100 points. Two days later, they were normal.

I work 7 days a week, so doing a curve was difficult. I am thankful that I was able to bring Cedric to work with me to do the curves, otherwise i would have had to "call out" or request off from my p/t job at Disney to try this. As others have said, numbers are usually higher at the vet due to stress. Cedric does NOT like going there!

He gets all canned food now, mostly Wellness grain free varities. I have also bought some Friskies nixed grill to mix it up a little. I need to take his BG again (I try to get it about every other week) but he pretty much stays in the 60s. We have a relion micro from wal-mart. I heat his ear with the heating pad from a toy of his.

I have since rescued a stray cat and he gets the same food (although he tells someone that Cedric's food is better....go figure). Cedric's coat is like touching silk and Dallas' coat is getting there (rescued 9/1/11).

In regards to the constupation, keep chicken as a regular part of your cat's diet. My Midora had that issue due to birth defects (wall of bladder connected to wall of uterus we knew for sure when they tried to fix her...). While I used to feed her Fancy Feast canned and W/D dry, in your case I would recommend the chicken to help regulate and a little mineral oil to help if your cat gets clogged up. Others might recommend some over the counter stuff. I had tried Metimucil on Midora but she would not take it. She died in 2005 and nowadays, there are probably products out there that are oderless and tasteless.

Good luck! Welcome!

 

I can only share my experience with the True meter and it was not good. If you look at the link on my signature - Maui's ss, you can see the huge difference in numbers I got between the Tru meter and the one touch.

I ended up returning the true meter and only using the one touch and currently the bayer contour and have no issues with either.

what's important is that you are now home testing! What you may want to do, is pick up the relion or another brand and use that - typically the companies rebate or give away the meters - because they make their money when you purchase strips.

And if your cats will eat wet food, then I wouldn't hesitate to make the switch to low carb wet. Because once you do, you will see that the bg's may drop dramatically and the amount of insulin needed will also drop as a result.

Just some more things to consider.

 

When y'all say Truetest isn't reliable, do you mean for cats or for anybody? According to several diabetes websites I went to, TrueTest is supposed to be very accurate, so I'm just trying to get things figured out...

 

Casey's ears will be fine. It's so much more important to get the information you need to get Casey's diabetes in control. There are people here who test multiple times a day, and their kitties ears are just fine. It helps to have something like a paper towel or tissue handy. After the test, use it to put a little pressure on the spot. Some people also use a bit of neosporin on the spot.

 

There have been 2 reviews by Consumer Reports. The earlier review (several years ago) indicated the Walgreens and CVS "True" meters weren't reliable for anyone. However, the newest review gave the meters a positive rating. People here have not had an overwhelmingly good experience with those meters. What I would suggest is that if you have an upcoming vet appointment, bring your meter. Have the vet test with his meter and test the same blood with your meter. It's the best way to know if your meter is calibrated correctly. (There's an allowable 20% difference between tests.) The only consideration is if your vet is using a meter or lab equipment that's calibrated for animals, there will be a 30 point difference with the animal meters running 30 points higher than a human meter.

As a side note, the Consumer Reports review also gave the Freestyle Lite a good rating. There are a number of people here who have had major problems with that meter or more accurately, the strips. The strips were changed and are not reading accurately.

All due respect to your vet, I disagree with his telling you to test only once a day. Part of the rationale for home testing is to make sure it's safe to give a shot. It's essential to test prior to giving an insulin injection. If your cat's numbers are in the lower ranges (e.g., 150 or below), you do not yet have enough data to give a shot. You would have no way to know this if you don't test. When I first came to FDMB and was lurking, someone pointed out that if it was your child who was diabetic, you would be testing religiously before each shot. I don't think this is any different for any family member regardless of whether they have 2 or 4 legs. In addition, Lantus dosing is based on the blood glucose reading at the lowest point (i.e., the nadir) of the cycle. Thus, its important to get at least 4 tests per day -- one at each pre-shot and a spot check somewhere during the cycle.

FWIW, my vet tells me I test too much. I nod my head and tell her that we'll have to agree to disagree. I know my cat's patterns and I test the way I do because of that and because I want to keep her safe. In addition, most vets think that cats will react badly to being tested and they usually do when in the vet's office. I'm sure everyone here has a story to tell about testing (e.g., their cats purr through the test, come running to be tested, etc.). If you pair testing and treats, you are positively reinforcing the testing process. Cats do work for treats! Jerky-style treats and freeze dried treats are very popular here. So are pieces of cooked chicken.

With regard to the condition of our cat's ears, take a look at Gabby's SS. I'm a bit of a testaholic. Her ears look fine -- and I only test on one ear. (One ear tends to bleed better than the other.) There are fewer nerve endings along the edge of the ear and the more skilled you get at testing, the easier it is on the ears. Neosporin ointment or Neosporin ointment with pain relief may help.

 

From Rebecca: The Walgreen's meters are rated higher than the ReliOn (WalMart) meter by Consumer Reports. See pixiegirls's great spreadsheet where she summarizes the Consumer Reports Oct 2011 test results on glucometers. The link is in a sticky in this forum or go directly to her spreadsheet at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjcBiiIVLby8dDUzZmMzUmNmVUtWWERST2xidWxnUVE

]

Really? This was the meter that Rebecca, the webmaster, recommended in her sticky (the link is at the bottom of the post, where she talks about Walgreens):

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60261

If you remember the post that says meters that start with True aren't good, please let me know where it is. I'd like to check it out. Thanks![/quote]

Wow - I never saw that Rebecca recommended that meter. Sorry that you are getting mixed messages. IMO, it's easiest if you find a meter and strips that are cost-effective and work well for you. When I first started my Mom gave me a meter for free and I was so excited thinking I was saving so much money. Then I saw how much the strips cost for this meter and was shocked. Then I went out and got a ReliOn-the strips are cheap and I used their syringes too. Cheap, cheap, cheap. I've never heard of issues with it.

Something to think about - if you DO change your cat's diet, you definitely need to be testing AT LEAST before every shot if you are still giving 4 units of Lantus! The change of diet will bring the numbers down and you don't need a hypo.

 

Following up what Sienne wrote:

The meter was problematic when tested on my cat. I didn't test on myself only the cat and it was more than a 20% difference between meters. As I was new and not comfortable with uncertain information, I decided I was better off using a meter that I did feel comfortable with and appeared to give me more accurate numbers. So, I got rid of the tru test meters. Oh and I had two of the tru test meters and neither one gave accurate numbers.

 

I only test one ear for Bandit, and his ears look exactly the same as they did before I started testing. You just put pressure on the spot for 20 seconds to stop the bleeding, and I always dabbed a little neosporin + pain relief on after. Also, don't use a dull lancet--each lancet should not be used more than twice.

 

Perhaps it has been covered, but Lactulos contains sugar and isn't the best for a diabetic one can't regulate.

 

Hi everybody,

OK, after work I went to Walmart and got a Relion meter.

I came home and, because Casey wanted dinner very badly, I went ahead and took a reading with the True2Go. It read 250.

After Casey ate (I bought some Classic Fancy Feast, seafood flavor, and mixed her Lactulose in with that), I took her reading with the Relion.

It read "HI" - which means it was more than 500. Is that because she ate? I gave her a little "Catsip" (milk made especially for cats) too, could that have affected the reading? I took a second reading and it came back the same way - "HI". Could the True2Go have been THAT off? The difference between 250 and 500+ is pretty significant!!

I don't think I can stay up late enough tonight to catch her at the nadir (that'll be at about 1 a.m.) but I'll be home tomorrow so I can take a reading tomorrow morning with the Relion before I feed her, and see what it says then. Then I can do a "curve" of my own and see if her level is readable about 5 hours later. Is that right?

Also, I bought her some beef jerky for a "treat", and she really likes it.

Thanks again for all the advice, I appreciate it!

 

Hi Sarah,

I'm still a newbie myself, so someone else should probably come in to confirm, but FWIU, after a cat eats, his/her glucose is going to "spike" as a result because the body is reacting to the food. It depends on the cat, but I think the spike last anywhere from half and hour to two hours. When I test in the morning, I do it before Atticus has eaten. If testing at the nadir (approx. 6 hours after dosing) or his PM test, I aim for at least an hour an a half after his last snack.

Hang in there. I was lost and freaked a few weeks ago, but I think we may be starting to get the hang of it here.

 

Hi Sarah,
The only way to reliably test one meter against the other is to use both at the same time, preferably with the same drop of blood. That takes all the variables like time and food out of the equation.
Also keep in mind that the FDA allows all meters to have a +/- variance of 20%. So a 300 can be anywhere between 240 and 360. I know that doesn't give you a warm fuzzy feeling. What you will come to understand is that it isn't all just about the specific number, but also about "patterns" with the data.
One thing that some people do is bring their meter(s) to the vet, and ask if they can compare their numbers with the vet's numbers at the same point in time using the same blood sample. That will give you a better sense of confidence as to which meter is more accurate. It is important when you come to the point where the different meters show different results that you gain confidence in one meter. When people get to the point where they doubt their results, then everything just gets confused and overwhelming.

Carl

 

I know you must be on information overload, but you seem to be handling everything so well. Great job!!! The Catsip night not be good for a diabetic cat. It may have some form of sugar in it. Testing after your kitty has eaten can be a frightening thing!! Especially if they've had something with sugar or a lot of carbs in it. Most Lantus users test before feeding and then feed and shoot (I shoot while Champ is eating) and then will test two hours after his meal (we call it +2, for two hours past shot time). If the +2 is higher than the preshot number, Casey will probably be safe for that cycle (probably). If the +2 is lower than the preshot number, you want to look for an active cycle (his numbers very well may continue to drop). If the +2 is pretty much the same as the preshot, you might want to check again somewhere in the middle of his cycle, anywhere from +4 to +6, to see how he's doing. This of course, is in a perfect world where you're home to do this. Because I work from home, I don't have a good grasp of how our working-outside-the-home members do things, but someone will be able to help you out if needed.

I understand the desire to not change the diet too fast until you get Casey's sugars under better control. Unfortunately, it might be the diet that's stopping that from happening. Personally, I wouldn't raise his dose anymore. If his sugars aren't coming down on that dose, you might need to bite the bullet and start the diet change. I would do this on a weekend, though, if these are your days off so you can test more often to see how he's doing. Also, while I don't have experience with constipation meds, I would take the suggestion of others here and see about changing over to Miralax as soon as you can. You may be surprised at how his numbers respond.

On the meter issue, I use the ReliOn Confirm from Walmart (Micro takes the same strips) and it is a very, very good meter. I order strips from American Diabetes Wholesale for their Glucocard 01 meter. This meter is the exact same as the Relion meter, but they branded it under the Relion name to Walmart. The strips are cheap at Walmart, but even cheaper online!!

I recently read my first posts when Champ was first diagnosed and it brought back how absolutely petrified I was. I was just sure he was going to die a slow, awful death. He's now better than he was before he had the diabetes. He's so healthy and happy. I know Casey will be just as fortunate with all the wonderful care you're giving him. Keep up the good job. We're all here for you!!

 

Hi everybody!

Well, I think I'm getting the hang of the glucose-testing thing.

This morning I got up at 7:15 (darned early for me on a weekend!) and tested Casey using the Relion meter. Unfortunately she wanted her food NOW, so I gave her some Fancy Feast/Lactulose combo and pricked her ear while she was eating. Had to do it about 8 times before I could get a decent drop of blood, poor kitty! But, finally got a reading of 275. I gave her 4 units of insulin at 7:45.

I tested her again at +2 (9:45 a.m.), and her BG was 455. This time it only took me one try with the lancet, yay! I'll test her again at her 'nadir', which will be at 12:45.

One question: when I'm trying to prick Casey's ear before she eats, she does NOT approve - she wants her food, now! She meows and tries to get away, very skittish, because she wants to eat, not get sticked with a pokey thing! How do you guys get your kitty to calm down when they're expecting food and skittish? Or is it OK to do the test *as* they're eating? Does that mess up the reading?

BTW, I'll post a pic of Casey when I can. She's a cutie!

 

Can you find an alternative to the Lactulose? It is full of sugar. I have absolutely no doubt it's driving your cat's numbers up. Using a little bit of Vasoline, butter, or vegetable oil may be a far better alternative.

Let me suggest an experiment. Test your cat. Give some of the Lactulose and test again 30 min. later. My guess is you're going to see a higher number. Giving the Lactulose is like giving your cat Karo syrup.

 

I'll ask my vet about the Lactulose. I'm giving her 2 mls 2X, and if I don't give it to her she develops severe constipation. When all of this started I asked about the Lactulose, and none of the vets I talked to (there are 4 at the animal hospital I go to) seemed to think it was a factor. But I'll find out if there's an alternative.

ETA: OK, a quick check on the FDMB boards and a few other cat-medical boards confirms that Lactulose is OK for diabetic cats. This is because Lactulose is not digested; instead it works by pulling water into the large intestine from the body. It is not known to affect blood glucose levels.

Here's where I got the info:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... ?8,1707863

http://www.assistfeed.com/ChallengesandProblems.htm

Thanks for the concern though, I appreciate it!

Here's the pic of Casey I promised:

 

You are doing AWESOME!!! Can't wait to see a pic of your girl!
You guys will develop a routine. If you test her and then immediately give her the food maybe she'll start thinking of the test as a way to get her food and she'll be more compliant? All my cats have been willing to do whatever I need to do as long as they some kind of reward/treat after. It IS important to know what her blood sugar is before she eats because that number will be unaffected by food. Food changes the number. Believe me, in a couple weeks you'll be an expert.

 

Thanks! See above for the pic.

Just did another reading, this time it was 491. Unfortunately I forgot not to give her a snack first and gave her a little Catsip about 10 minutes before, so that might have messed up the reading!

I might need to find a substitute for the Catsip, since the milk sugar in it is probably not helping things. I've seen plain yogurt offered as an alternative, so maybe I'll try that. Dehydration is a problem for Casey, though, and I liked the Catsip because she LOVES it and I know she's staying hydrated if I see her drinking it. Hm.

Oh well! I'll try to heighten the pricking/food connection in the kitty, and since she seems to love the Fancy Feast I'll switch her to that and try to get her on an all-wet diet for giving the Lactulose. If I see the numbers come down a lot, then I'll inform the vet and we'll go from there. Does anyone know why vets don't encourage changing a diet while trying to bring diabetes under control? Is it a shock to the system or something like that?

 

One thing I do with Beauregard to help with hydration is to mix a bit of warm water with the gel-like stuff and the few bits of food that are in the bottom of the Fancy Feast cans. He totally loves it - I think he was a gravy hound in a past life - so it's a sure-fire way of increasing his water intake.

 

Just wanted to second the poster above me. I also switched my kitty from from dry food to fancy feast classics and she went from being 400's down to 300 and 200's immediately. Also i mix about two to three tablespoons in with her fancy feast so its a mush and she eats the whole thing. It's really helped her get a little extra hydration.
I can't do four tests a day either but even just doing a test before you go to bed no matter where in the cycle it is, or when you have days off during the days, will help you know whats going on. Also freeze dried chicken treats are awesome low carb treat to give for test and shots. My girl gobbles them down like no other.
Sounds like you are a really good kitty momma, and that your baby is really lucky to have you!

 

<<Does anyone know why vets don't encourage changing a diet while trying to bring diabetes under control? Is it a shock to the system or something like that?>>

I think that they (some vets) JUST don't know. I'm not kidding. I think vets are like general practitioners and they know a little about everything, but not enough about specific in-depth issues. The folks here live and breathe diabetes daily, the vets do not. I've heard that in a vets training that diabetes is probably one day of their schooling.

Vets also make money selling certain "prescription" foods for diabetes. These foods are dry and very high in carbs - go figure! I think that once you and Casey have a little more experience and a routine going, tweak a few things, you two will start to see better numbers and you can educate your vet.

Your next step is setting up an online spreadsheet to track test numbers. Having a spreadsheet will allow people on the board to help you. Data collection is very important. AND-you can share it with your vet. Your vet will be very impressed by this. It will help all parties to help Casey get better faster.

There are directions somewhere on the board on how to set up a SS...maybe someone else can direct you...anyone know?

 

Bringing diabetes under control is a process, not a one-time event. It is a continuous balancing of insulin and food (at the coarsest level). The objective is to stabilize her bg and bring it into the normal range. As a benefit of being in the normal range, if her pancreas is able to heal itself and produce insulin, it will do so in the normal bg range. So more carbs and sugar means more insulin to balance it out.

With respect to the constipation, dry food is a contributing factor. My cats all get wet food only, and the one with other complications gets his wet food mixed with an equal amout of warm water.

And if you are fortunate and her pancreas heals and produces its own insulin, enough to balance low carb food, most people would still refer to this cat as a diabetic, but one who is diet regulated as opposed to insulin regulated. Whether or not lactulose is ok for a diabetic is not important if you can add water to her food and she is able to pass normal stool.

You are doing a great job. Asking questions and researching will all help you to help your kitty.

 

I checked about this. Here are some quotes from various sites I found when searching "Is Latulose safe for diabetics.":

"Since lactulose syrup also contains other sugars such as lactose and galactose, patients with diabetes should consult their physicians."

"Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist your medical history, especially of: diabetes."

"If you have diabetes, you may need a dose adjustment or special tests to safely take lactulose."

Since Casey blood sugar continues to be so high, you might ask your vet about using something else, like Miralax.

 

Hi all!

I just took Casey's BG again, before I fed her, and got "HI" (over 500). I tested again from a drop of blood from the floor and got 485. This was in a kitty who hasn't had Lactulose for 12 hours, nor any snacks for 8 hours - if she ate anything, it was the dry low-residue food I left out for her and my other cat, and not much of that. I gave her PM dose of 4 units of insulin and her 2 ml of Lactulose, and I'll take another reading before i go to bed tonight.

ETA: Thanks for the information regarding Lactulose, Debby. The dose I'm giving Casey is very small - 2 mls, not even half a teaspoon. But, I'll ask the vet if we could try switching.

ETA: OK, it's 11 p.m. and I just checked Casey's BG again. It came out "HI", 500+

So, based on this one day, it looks like Casey's numbers are lowish in the morning (275), then shoot right up to around 500 and stay there for the rest of the day, even when she goes a long time without snacks or Catsip. Hm!!! Could a small amount of the dry food alone cause that much of a spike?

I'll take her BG again first thing tomorrow before I feed her and report back. Thanks for the encouragement everybody!

 

One more question -

Is the number I'm seeing on my Relion meter applicable to cats? In other words, if the Relion read "250" is that the number for my cat, or do I need to adjust it, since the meter is designed for reading human blood?

 

The number on your meter applies to cats.

Even a few pieces of kibble can cause a spike in BG levels. With kibble, the rise isn't immediate. It takes a while to kick in and it takes a long time for the kibble to work its way out of a cat's system. As for giving only 2 ml of the Lactulose, a 1 - 2 drops of Karo will also raise BG levels. In part, it's a matter of how high the carbs are in what you're feeding but how sensitive your cat is to carbs is also a factor. One of the people on the Lantus Board's cat will get a 30 point bump in numbers from a piece of chicken. Her cat is very carb sensitive.

 

Hi everybody,

I just checked Casey's levels this a.m., pre-feeding, they're 374. I gave her her 4 units of insulin, a can of Fancy Feast classic (beef flavor) with her Lactulose mixed in, and a little very-watered-down Catsip. I'll take her levels again mid-morning and see where we are.

I'm starting to suspect the dry food, although switching both cats to all-wet will be a problem. My other kitty, Kennedy, does NOT like wet food - he won't eat any type, just sniffs at it and walks away.

Casey on the other hand, LOVES the stuff. So my fear is what will happen is: I'll take away the dry, put down wet. Kennedy will ignore the wet, Casey will eat her bowl, then go over and scarf down Kennedy's portion, and she'll get too much food and Kennedy will go hungry.

Short of standing by Kennedy's bowl and shooing Casey away basically all day, I'm not sure how to solve that problem. Kennedy isn't diabetic, he's a slender little kitty without any known issues. Anybody have any suggestions? The other option is to put Casey and Kennedy both on the special low-carb cat food from the vet's office. Not sure how that will affect her constipation, though.

ETA: OK, took her BG at 9:45 (+2) and it was 324. If it was accurate, that's the first time her BG has actually gone DOWN during the day since I started this thing! I'll take it again around 1 p.m. and see where we're at...

 

OK, very discouraged.

I just tried for more than half an hour to get another reading on Casey. For some reason, I don't know why, I just couldn't get any blood. I tried 2 different lancers and went through 4 lancets and 4 test strips (a little blood, but not enough to get a reading).

I must have pricked the poor kitty's ears 25 times. I warmed them up, tried to hit a vein, nothing. No matter what I tried I just couldn't get a drop of blood big enough to get a reading. Now her ears are all red from all the stabbing and I feel awful. I don't know whether to try again before I leave to run errands or just skip her reading because I'm afraid she'll come to dread getting her ears pricked and I won't be able to get enough blood to get a reading again. :cry:

 

Breathe, it's ok! Don't be discouraged. I remember becoming the woman who could not get blood the first time I tried to do a curve, despite the fact that I had been doing fine for a whole week. Even six years in, there were days when suddenly I couldn't get a good bead of blood! I would look at Pearl and say "Where did the blood all go?". Take a break. Have a cuppa. Try again later. Try to just get kind of zen about it. I know when this happened to me, even with warming, I actually wasn't holding the warming bag on the ear quite long enough. So try a few more seconds warming.

Reading through this thread, I would say that the lactulose and cat milk may be adding to your havoc. I know the importance of lactulose as my civilian cat is a chronic constipation kitty and without it, she gets really stopped up quickly. Pearl seemed to have trouble occasionally but for her, I would mix some fiber into her wet food. Most people I know use miralax for this, but since I have IBS trouble, I have some of that Heather's Acacia soluble fiber on hand and would use that. I suspect you might do ok with miralax. Talk to your vet about it. That mixed with the wet food might do just as well. I would try to reserve that cat milk (since she must like it) as an emergency treat for if she ever goes low. Try a new treat like freeze dried meat. Try chicken from Halo or something like that. Most cats are nuts for it. If you have a petsmart, they usually have some freeze dried salmon in the cat treat area that is nice and crumbly (My cats, at least, always liked the crumbly kind, not the jerky kind you see). You might have to order Halo on line.

Anyhow, don't get discouraged. This is a process. I named Pearl's blog Pearl the Diabetic Cat: A Journey of Patience for a reason! It's all about the journey, the process.

 

P.S. She won't come to dread ear pricks from one bad day. Especially if you give her a low carb treat (also thought of just some deli turkey or hame, that is a good treat too) or a play session if she likes that kind of thing, when you are done.

 

Thanks, everybody, I feel better!

I FINALLY got a reading! It's 262. Should I be concerned? It's never dropped like this before, it's always gone UP. Now she's gone from 374 to 324 (+2) to 262 (+7).

I'll try to take another reading before I feed her tonight. I think I need to buy a case of test strips! And a case of tequila.

 

Don't forget the chocolate!

 

Oh, don't worry, I've already got the chocolate!! My family knows I'm a Lindt addict and I have tons left over from Christmas. But thanks for the suggestion! Maybe I'll go get MORE chocolate...

Krogers has Fancy Feast on sale, so I picked up a bunch of that, plus some plain yogurt to see if I can switch that out for the Catsip. Is yogurt OK to give her? It's Dannon Plain...

 

Getting a 262 (a lower number) is what you want! Things are starting to work.

In the beginning everyone has trouble getting blood. You're doing really well! I haven't done this in a while myself. I'm sure I'd feel the same way. It takes time....just keep doing what you're doing.

About the yogurt - I need to go back and see why you need to give her this stuff. There is a strong possibility that there is sugar in it.

See why you need CHEAP test strips??? :lol:

 

I'm looking for an alternative to the Catsip. Casey loves dairy and I'm trying to keep her happy.

ETA: I took Casey's BG again at 7:15 p.m., before I fed her and gave her her shot. It came out "HI" (500+). I'll check it one more time before I go to bed tonight. I'm going to guess based on the numbers that she bottomed out in the 260's today.

ETA One more poke! At approx. 10:15 (+3), it's still "HI". Hm, maybe the yogurt wasn't such a good idea...

Oh well! We'll see what it is tomorrow morning. The Catsip might be the culprit, and if it is, I'm going to have to find a non-sugary dairy type liquid treat to give Casey to keep her hydrated and happy. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Catsip is basically lactose free lowfat milk. It's just as carby as regular milk.

Many people wrongly believe that lactose-free milk contains less carbohydrates compared to regular lactose-containing milk. The only difference between lactose-free milk and lactose-containing milk is that the lactose molecule is broken down into glucose and galactose in the lactose-free milk. The total carbohydrate content per serving of lactose-free milk is exactly the same as found in lactose-containing milk, but it is simply easier to digest and absorb for people with lactose intolerance that do not have enough of the enzyme lactase in their digestive tract. Lactose-free milk can therefore affect your blood sugar levels to the same extend as lactose-containing milk.

(THat's for humans but it would apply to cats too)

Other cat milks have even more carbs with other sugars added. Wouldn't she love a nice piece of turkey just as much?

 

I'll have to try it - I think she'd love both!! She was meowing for her Catsip the other day, and I tossed a piece of beef jerky down for her. She just looked at it, looked at me like, "What the heck is that @#$#@? I want my Catsip, darn it!" and went back to meowing.

I took her BG this morning before her breakfast and shot, and it was 474. She'll probably be losing her Catsip whether she likes it or not! Maybe if I give her enough deli meat she'll grow to not miss it.

Thanks for the advice, everybody!

 

Regarding the yogurt --- PLAIN yogurt is fine - no sugar added. Start with a small amount squished up with water -- or Catsip -- and gradually phase out the Catsip.

If you get Vanilla or flavored yogurt -- full of sugar.


Many people here get timed feeders that open after X hours -- some with multiple compartments.

I'm lucky in that all my cats are grazers -- I leave out low carb canned food all day and night and they just nibble as they need to.

 

I wish I could do that! I tried giving both Casey and Kennedy the same amount of wet food tonight. Kennedy picked at his, but Casey wolfed hers down and then went over and tried to push Kennedy out of the way so she could eat his share too!! I put her in the bathroom so Kennedy could eat in peace.

BUT, at least Kennedy seems open to the idea of an all-wet diet. Question: Kennedy is 8 pounds, Casey 9.5. How many cans of kitty food should they get a day? The can says 1 can per 3.5 lbs. of cat per day, but dang, that's a can each, for each meal! That seems like a lot of food...

 

On average a 8-10 pound cat will eat about one 5.5oz can per day. I have 13 cats ranging in size from 8lbs to 17lbs, although most seem to weigh in at right around 12-14lbs. With 13 I maintain everyone's weight on either 16 (5.5oz) cans or 8 (13oz) cans of Friskies. The recommendations on the side of the can is based on a young unaltered (not spayed or neutered) active adult cat. Kittens need more and seniors and fixed cats need less. It also depends on what type of food you are feeding, but the general rule of thumb is between 15 to 20 calories per pound of ideal weight for the cat. Luckily Janet and Binky's list gives you the breakdown of how many calories there is in a can of your choosen food.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Mmm. I would say Pearl was doing about 1.5 3 oz cans a day. My civie Sugar eats less and Pearl also snacked on anything Sugar left. I think it depends on the cat and activity level. Also, diabetics who are not yet controlled should be allowed what the want (pretty much. With in reason. If they totally gorge that can lead to some bad things, but if genuinely hungry, feed.) IME, cans seem to really overestimate the amount of food a cat will eat!

 

I know Casey loves her Catsip, but I would try eliminating it for 5-7 days as an experiment. If her numbers even out a bit, you can probably safely say it was the Catsip. If Casey's numbers stay the same, you know it doesn't effect her bg.

And if that's the case, check with the vet for a substitute for the Lactulose.

I suggest this because we gave Maggie Cosequin for arthritis. We were assured both by our vet and members here it wouldn't have any effect on her numbers. But her numbers went up 100 points. We stopped it and they came back down. You have to remember ECID (every cat is different).

 

Thanks for the advice, Debby! I appreciate it.

Do y'all think chicken broth would be an acceptable substitute for the Catsip? I don't think they make a milk substitute that doesn't have any sugar in it, but cats can't taste sweet anyway so I'm not even sure why Casey likes it! But I'm thinking she might go for chicken broth since cats like chicken. So maybe I can give her that instead?

 

Just want to make sure that the chicken broth doesn't have any spices in it, since things like garlic and onion are toxic to cats. If you are going to use chicken broth I would make my own from just plain boiled chicken I wouldn't use the pre-packaged stuff since you don't know what spices are added or salt content . You could also use just the water off water packed tuna..most cats love that.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Wow, garlic and onion are toxic to cats? I didn't know that.

Here are the ingredients of the can of broth I bought: chicken stock, contains less than 2% of: salt, flavoring, yeast extract, carrot juice concentrate, celery juice concentrate, onion juice concentrate.

Does the onion juice concentrate make it unsafe? If it does I'll just use it to make some chicken oregano...

 

onion and garlic can cause issues like anemia, but I would think that it would depend in what amounts ...plus I knew someone who fed her cat garlic and it actually seemed to help. I do not recommend it, just saying.

 

Well, for what it's worth, when I gave Casey her shot at 7:30 p.m. her BG was 500+. I took it again just a little while ago (+3.5) and it's down to 331! Yay! I'll replace her Catsip with a small amount of the broth and see if it helps her BG...

ETA: Tested her again this morning before I gave her her shot, and she was at 372. Not great, but better than 500+! I'll keep y'all updated.

 

I know how you feel about the milk thing, Scooter used to be a cream addict... his ex-owners told me "He NEEDS his cream EVERY morning at THIS time" and I was like uh no he doesn't. So we just stopped cold turkey. Yeah he howled at the fridge every morning for like a week and then he stopped and I can't remember the last time he did it. She'll survive without it. :razz: It's for her own good!

 

Oh, I know - I'm curious to see what her numbers are tonight, since she's been without her Catsip fix all day! She's getting wise to the chicken broth though. I wonder if nondairy coffee creamer would be an acceptable substitute? We have some here at the office and according to the label it's got like 1 gram of carbs and <1 gram of sugar per 2 tbsp. serving. The low fat stuff doesn't have any carbs or sugar at all. Hm...

 

how much sugar is in milk vs catsip? Honestly, I don't know how much the catsip or milk would spike her blood glucose levels, so maybe look into a comparison of the two and consider reducing volume, not total withdrawal. We all need a treat now and then...

 

Quote earlier in the thread.

 

:lol:
I feel like Casey is trying to quit smoking or something and we're all trying to figure out what she can have instead. I bet if you find a good substitute that she loves too that she'll be fine. My cats are both NUTS over deli turkey. They prefer that over everything.

 

Casey has a Catsip monkey on her back.

Casey does love any kind of meat, like deli turkey or chicken or anything. I'm just trying to figure out something to "supplement" it in a beverage way, because the Catsip kept her hydrated. Coffee creamer doesn't have any sugar in it, and only a very tiny amount of carbs - less than milk, which has 12 g. of sugar per cup.

I just took Casey's BG a little while ago (+9) and it was 500+. :-( Oh well!

Say, I'm going to be out of the apartment tonight after about 6:15. I gave Casey her shot at 7:00 this morning. Is it OK if I give to her a little early? If I don't do it early I can't do it until about 9:15...?

 

You can give it to her early. It's not that far off of her normal shot time.

 

Whatever you find to substitute, it can't have any artificial sweetners, like aspertine. I think they are all toxic to cats.