My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabetes..

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by chasenlibby, Jun 24, 2013.

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  1. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

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    Jun 24, 2013
    Now what? Any advice from those who have been there? Right now I am scared for her. confused_cat
     
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Welcome to the FDMB, the best place you never expected to be. Before we dive into the specifics of food, testing, insulins, etc, Please read this first.

    a message from your cat

    We have many members here that can walk you through the paces of this sugardance. Take plenty of deep breaths and know we can help you with so many of the details.

    Next, would you please tell me your name and your cats name? Where do you live so we can give you country specific advice?

    Then we'll talk about food.
     
  3. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    My cat's name is Libby, my name is Jo and we live in Illinois. Thanks for any advice you can give.
     
  4. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi Jo!

    :YMHUG:

    How was Libby diagnosed by the vet? What made you bring her into the vet's in the first place? Is she on any insulin yet? If so, what kind?
     
  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi Jo from Illinois. We have several members from the Land of Lincoln.

    This is a very scary time. Will your cat be ok? maybe you are afraid of needles and don't know if you can give your cat a shot, so many questions. We'll help you all we can in your journey with your sugarkitty Libby.

    Do you know what tests were done to determine the diabetes diagnosis? Blood glucose test? Urine glucose test? What clinical signs does your cat have that made your vet decide your cat has diabetes? P/U peeing a lot, P/D drinking a lot of water, excessive eating, walking funny on the back legs, rapid weight loss? If you know any of the test results, and could share them with us, we would appreciate it.

    The 3 keys to treating diabetes are food, insulin, home testing.

    Sometimes, changing the food to a low carb food can make a big difference. The BG's (blood glucose) levels can go down 100 points. Does your cat like wet food or dry food better or a mix of the two? We have food suggestions for both types of food. If you can change the food before you start your cat Libby on insulin, that would be best.

    Would you please tell us what food you are feeding your cat Libby right now?

    A lot of people here feed the canned Fancy Feast Classic Pates, Friskies pates and Wellness grain free or core varieties. We have a vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson who has put together a food chart of most of the canned foods available in the US. food chartWe recommend low carb being < 10% for the best results in changing the BG (blood glucose) numbers without insulin.

    Let me know some of the answers to those questions I asked and we can go from there. We will get you through this difficult time.
     
  6. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks everyone for the responses ... and for your support!!
    Six months ago I switched my cats (I have a male (Chase) and my sugarkitty Libby from Science Diet Light Hairball food to Natural Balance chicken and green pea L.I.D. I was so happy with the results... their coats were shinier and they both lost a little weight, but Libby lost the most. I brought her in to be sure it was nothing else that was causing the weight loss and lo and behold she was diagnosed with diabetes. They say she is a 'virgin' diabetic because all other levels and tests are good - no ketones in the urine. They said this was good, but the sugar level was still high.
    Originally they did a blood test and when the sugar level from the test proved to be high, they asked for a urine sample. From the urine sample they diagnosed the diabetes. I never noticed any changes in her behavior - peeing a lot, walking funny, excessive drinking... that's why everything seemed okay. What triggered my visit to the vet was that my male cat didn't lose as much as my female after changing the food.
    My cats free feed on dry food and are very finicky about anything wet - for instance, they'll drink the tuna water but will leave the tuna! ?? The only thing they both ate was when I got a sample of Fancy Feast chicken and cheddar cheese - they both ate some of that.
    I am waiting for the vet to call me back today to go over the specifics on maintenance, but do you know if she has to have insulin, is it forever or if we can get her sugar level down, can it be regulated with oral medications and diet? Do you have to draw blood every day like humans do to check the levels or is it done through the urine? Where do you administer the shots?
    Ugh so many questions! Thanks for any help you can give.
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    You want a low carb food ... and the prescription foods aren't. Canned or raw foods are preferred due to the greater moisture content. This helps protect the kidneys. for much more nutrition info from a vet go to Cat Info.

    For steadfast dry food eaters, Evo Cat & Kitten, Wellness Core original in gold and tan bag, Young Again 0 Carb, or Stella and Chewy's Freeze Dried (meant to be rehydrated, and may be a way to ease them into wet foods).

    Inexpensive canned includes Friskies Pates, both regular and Special Diet versions.

    Any food transitions should be gradual to reduce GI upsets like vomiting and diarrhea.
     
  8. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    but do you know if she has to have insulin, is it forever or if we can get her sugar level down,
    Many cats no longer require insulin after a while, especially if you feed them a low-carb canned food
    can it be regulated with oral medications and diet?
    The oral ones almost never work in cats. Some will regulate on low-carb canned foods
    Do you have to draw blood every day like humans do to check the levels
    Most caretakers here test the blood before each insulin shots and sometime in between shots
    or is it done through the urine?
    A few test the urine for glucose. However, that only give average of BG and glucose only gets into the urine if the blood-glucose level is about a 160-240. Thus, if the urine show not glucose the actual BG could be too low.
    Where do you administer the shots?
    Around the neck (scruff) and on the side of the body
     
  9. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    hello and welcome to the board!

    Ro answer some of your questions..

    Diet is key - the sooner you can get them onto a low carb canned (or dry) like BJ said, the more likely they can be diet controlled.
    Oral medications for diabetes are bad for cats however - they stimulate the pancreas - which is a bad idea when its already damaged and stressed

    Its a good idea to draw blood before every shot because you want to know if the cat is low and act accordingly. And then again a spot check during the day to see how low the cat is going and adjust insulin needs. But its fairly easy since we test their ears and they dont have many nerve endings there ( unlike your finger). Most cats get used to it and dont feel it.
    We also test urine occasionally for ketones to make sure there is no diabetic ketoacidosis which is a dangerous condition. You can test the urine for sugar too but its not as accurate as testing the blood -because it depends so much on how much the cat drank, when he last peed etc.

    There are a variety of spots you can shoot - see here: http://www.bd.com/ca/diabetes/english/page.aspx?cat=14501&id=14874

    Wendy
     
  10. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Insulin: Some cats can be successfully managed through diet change alone and do not require supplemental insulin. Hopefully that will be the case with your Libby. If not, there are three insulins that have been found to be most effective for cats: Lantus/glargine, Levemir/detemir, and PZI/ProZinc. You do not want any other insulin, so if the vet recommends Novolin or Vetsulin, refuse it and ask for one of the three I mentioned above. There are also Savings Discounts offered by the manufacturers of Lantus and Levemir that reduce the cost significantly, so if your vet prescribes either of those two insulins, ask for it in "pen" form. You will use it the same as you would a vial, but it's much cheaper going that route. So, depending on your state/country, you might also need a prescription for syringes.

    You never want to give oral insulin medications to a cat as they've been shown to damage the pancreas further, usually permanently, making remission a lot less likely. Remission, or going "Off The Juice" (OTJ) means that your cat no longer requires insulin injections and is a "diet-controlled" diabetic, aka a "broken" diabetic. :lol: You have the highest chance of getting Libby into remission within the first 6 months of diagnosis, so that's what we're aiming for here first.

    Diet: I agree with BJM that getting them switched to a low carb, wet food is your best bet. The catinfo.org website also has a nutritional information list on most of the commercial canned food available (you want anything less than 10% carbs, the lower the better).

    Home Testing:
    Yes, we test our cats much like human diabetics test themselves, except we use their ears (which are actually less sensitive than our own fingertips). We've taught many people how to test their cats and it becomes fairly routine and even easier than feeding them. When starting out, however, you might run into a few problems, so here's a great link on Ear Testing Tips to help get you started. The other great benefit of home testing is that you do not need to take Libby into the vet to get tested or for expensive curves since you can do it at home. My vet has only seen Michelangelo once since diagnosis and that was for his one-year checkup and not even diabetes related.

    Most of us use human glucometers since they're so much less expensive for the test strips than the pet meters, but are just as accurate (with a difference akin to Celsius vs. Fahrenheit). If you're in the US, Walmart carries the ReliOn brand that has the cheapest strips around, which is where the cost can easily add up. Even though she's not yet on insulin, I would still highly recommend getting a meter so you can see how the diet change might be affecting her numbers and if she needs to go on insulin.

    In order to figure out what numbers you're looking for, I simply reference Wikipedia's Blood Sugar Guidelines Chart. We'll also be able to help you interpret what the numbers mean as you go along, so let us know if you have any questions.

    Getting Started Shopping List:
    1. Glucometer (i.e. a Walmart ReliOn Confirm/Micro or Prime)
    2. Matching Strips
    3. Lancing device if you prefer
    4. Matching lancets if you're using a lancing device. If not, then look for the "alternate testing site" lancets, which are great to use for when first starting out.
    5. Ketostix for testing the urine for ketones (a potentially dangerous condition that can develop from hyperglycemia)
    6. Freeze-dried meat treats (essential when first starting out testing)

    The AAHA Guidelines for Diabetes is a great resource for much of the information I provided above and is worth a read-through and perhaps even passing along to your vet. And please let us know how the follow-up vet visit goes! :D
     
  11. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    How is the blood tested? Do you have to prick their paw? I can see how this would grow to be an aversion for her after doing it once or twice. It's good to hear that it may be able to be controlled strictly through a low carb diet. What are some of the canned foods that you would recommend? On another note, what is the average cost for the insulin and supplies? Any idea?
    We had some pretty nasty storms here in Illinois last night, so the vet has been closed for half the day - still waiting for a reply from the message received last night as to next steps.
     
  12. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

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    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks Kpassa, this really helps me prepare on what to speak to my vet about. I appreciate the "experienced" advice, especially about the insulin and the checklist of items I'll need.
     
  13. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Cost-wise, I'm not going to lie as it is expensive starting out:
    • Insulin, depending on what you're using. If you pick Lantus or Levemir, the pens will last till expiration date if not used. If used, they should last anywhere from 3-6 months refrigerated and some people have reported they can last even longer (they simply lose potency over time). With the Lantus Savings Card, you pay only $25 per pen for up to 6 pens. With the Levemir FlexPen coupon, you can also save quite a bit of money.
    • Blood glucose testing equipment: ketostix are fairly inexpensive. Glucometers run about $10-15 and are sometimes given out for free with purchase of test strips. Test strips is where they make their money. There are some cheap options, like the ReliOn Prime glucometer test strips which run about $9 for 50 strips. Also buying online is always cheapest. Lancets for a lancet pen are usually more costly than learning how to test with just a lancet (however, they're easier to re-use). Some people feel more comfortable allowing the lancet pen to do the penetrating while other people like the control of using the lancet free-hand, so it's up to you with which you prefer to use.
    • Syringes are fairly cheap since you only need to use two a day. (I think they run ~$20 for a box of 100 IIRC?) You do NOT want to buy the pen syringes for the insulin pens but actual regular insulin syringes, with half-unit markings is best.

    As to daily costs, here is an example:
    • Daily insulin for two shots a day, depending on how much your kitty might need per shot and when it expires, is fairly cheap. I first purchased the vial at about $120 for 10mL of Lantus (I didn't know about the pens), which equates to about $20 a month for 6 months (before it expired), or about .66 cents a day or .33 cents a shot. I purchased the pen for $25 for 3mL of Lantus, which lasted me till the last drop at a little over 2 months giving 2.5u BID (for newly diagnosed, you will usually start with just 1u BID). Or, about $12.50 a month, .42 cents a day, or .21 cents a shot.
    • Syringes for two shots a day at about $12 a month or .40 cents a day or .20 cents a syringe
    • Low Carb, Wet food under 10% carbs: Friskies being the cheapest at ~.50 cents per 5.5oz can. Most cats will eat two cans or more a day, depending on size. So, this is about a $1 a day per cat.
    • Test strips: At minumum, you want to test before each shot and at the peak/nadir (for Lantus, it's around 6 hours after the first shot). Using the ReliOn Prime at about .18 cents a strip, this means at the very least, you'll be spending ~.72 cents a day. For me, I test a lot and still only use up about 10-15 strips a day, averaging out to about $2/day. Even if you tested every hour for 24 hours straight, you'd still end up spending only $4.32 (not counting any failed tests).

    Total cost: ~$5 per day or ~$150 per month.

    Of course, there are even cheaper ways of doing things, but I figured it might help to get a rough estimate of what its daily cost is vs. the up front cost.
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    If you compare the costs that Kpassa gave you and break out the amounts for home testing, lancets, meter (one time), test strips and compare that to the cost of a single vet curve done at the vet clinic, $100-200, you will quickly understand why we think home testing is the way to go.
     
  15. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

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    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks Deb, Wink and Kpassa.. it is so great to know there are people out there who can give sound advice. I've been watching the instructional videos online to see how to do the testing and administering the insulin and I don't find myself as freaked out as I was yesterday. Due to the flooding in our area today, my vet was closed, so I was unable to get in today. I am still waiting for the call back. I will keep you all informed of the progress. It's still hard to believe that my kitty is sick... she played so much with her toys today and looks so good it's mind boggling to think of anything being wrong with her.
    Thanks again! :RAHCAT
     
  16. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thats good she isnt showing signs, she is in the early stages and has a better chance of getting regulated fast or remission. Remission is a 40% chance within the first 6 months if you:

    1. Move onto a low carb canned food like fancy feast pates or friskies pates
    2. choose a good insulin ie lantus, levemir or prozinc
    3. home test enough to see trends and dose effectiveness ie 4 times a day


    Wendy
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    You may have noticed that vets will ask you how your cat is eating and drinking when you go in for regular visits. Those are just some of the Secondary Monitoring Tools listed in my signature link.

    Urine ketone testing is very important any time the cat is not eating, is ill, or is not regulated. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), a potentially fatal, expensive to treat (requires hospitalization), complication of diabetes.
     
  18. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I have an appointment tomorrow and they will give me all the necessary info. My vet did mention the same insulin brands as you have, so that is a good thing. I'll keep you all posted on the results of the visit. I'll keep my fingers crossed that she has a good chance at remission - that would be awesome. :smile:
     
  19. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    After your vet appointment, I hope you will come back and let us know what your vet said. What insulin he prescribed and what diet.

    Let us know how else we can help. You've only started to see the tip of the iceberg in the wide range of experience of people on this board for the day to day management of feline diabetes.

    Let us know what questions you have at the vet. We hope he is supportive of home testing because that is one of the most important actions we can take to help our diabetic cats.

    When you have a moment, adding some information to your signature would be helpful. This is strictly voluntary but it will help us to help you better.

    The google doc profile can wait a bit until you have some time. The signature information only takes a couple of minutes.

    I realize you don't know what meter yet or what insulin, but you can add that data later. Please consider doing this signature update so we can help you better. Thanks.
     
  20. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi, Jo:

    I'm in Illinois too...about 20 miles NW of Chicago :)

    New to this FB board too

    Welcome !! This is the best place to be at a time like this
     
  21. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi everyone,
    Well, today is day 2 of administering the insulin. The vet has her on ProZinc... one cc in the am and 1 cc in the pm. So far so good. Libby doesn't even realize I'm giving her the shot... she loves to be cuddled, so while I'm doing the cuddling, I pinch her side and in it goes. No flinching or anything. Phew! As for food, she (and my other male cat/not diabetic) were eating Natural Balance Green Pea and Chicken LID kibble. I have picked up a few cans of Fancy Feast chicken (those without gravy) and so far Libby is good eating canned food, but my male cat turns up his nose. But that's okay, since he's not the sugar kitty! My vet said not to switch foods right away, but to gradually introduce the wet food. Again, so far so good. They ordered my testing kit for me and it should be in next week - hopefully before the 4th of July holiday. That's it for now... not much else to report. It's hard to tell if there is any real change yet... I think the urine output may be a little less but I am trying to be diligent about scooping the box every couple of hours to see. Thanks again for your support and I'll look into filling out the profile. Stay tuned for further updates!
    (And hi Karen - nice to know there's a neighbor close by!)
     
  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I think you may mean 1 unit?

    Yeah! A cooperating cat. Do you need to bribe her with treats so she doesn't notice or she just loves the cuddling?

    How are the 5 P's (purring, preening, playing, peeing, pooping) and her appetite? Doing well?
     
  23. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Yes! Units... sorry, just learning all the acronyms!
    The 5 P's are Purrfect.... The only symptom I had with Libby was the weight loss and she was peeing a lot more. Other than that, she seemed perfectly normal. She played, peed, pooped, purrs like a truck on steroids! :lol: and her coat is soft and shiny (I thought that was due to the change to Natural Balance from Science Diet). She is a true girly girl... always making sure she is preened to perfection. Libby is a rescue cat that I got when the mother of the litter died at birth. She was hand fed from day one, so she is very used to being held and handled... a good thing for me right now! No need for treats, she just loves the cuddling. I just have to be aware of my male cat so that he doesn't get jealous from all the attention that Libby is getting.
     
  24. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    We've got lots of acronyms and a glossary to help you. are you new and confused about our jargon? read our glossary right here in Feline Health, up in the Announcements section.

    Just wanted to double check on how much you were giving. ;-)

    It's always nice when the 'treat' for getting the shot and testing can be cuddling or brushing or something. Doesn't always have to be food.

    I know your test kit isn't here yet, but you could setup a spreadsheet now to start to track the units you give, how much Libby is eating and add test numbers later.

    For those people home testing or planning on it, we have a wonderful way to keep track of the test data and shots. There is a google spreadsheet template you can use so you don’t have to start from scratch and figure out what you want it to look like.
    We have instructions on how to set one up. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207The color coding is helpful to see trends over time in how the insulin is working. We even help set them up for people that may be technology challenged. Please ask if you need help.

    Having a SS set up and linked to your signature is a great way to get some suggestions from the experienced people on FDMB. You can even share the spreadsheet with your vet, by email. It's totally optional but it can get you some great advice on how to manage your cat with his BG numbers.

    What do you think? You can look at Wink's SS in my signature to see what one looks like. I found it invaluable.

    What's your male cats name? Is that Chase? Or is that your name?
     
  25. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Chase is the name of my male cat. He's another rescue that came into my home when he was almost 2. He's a Norwegian Forest Cat - big feet, big boy! These two cats are inseparable... amazing. I had Chase for about 2 years before I got Libby as a kitten. It took about 1 hour for them to bond... seriously. He licked her all over and she fell asleep in his ruff... that was it. I was very lucky to have found these two furbabies!
    With Libby, when I administer her shot, I basically put her horizontally in front of me, wrap my arms around her, pinch the skin on her side or belly and we're done. She purrs the whole time. Only once did she flinch. I do find that the syringes are very touchy and it is easy to accidentally touch the plunger and release the insulin before injection. Ugh! But I'm sure I'll get the hang of it.
    I am already writing down the dose, food intake, water intake, etc. on a form that the vet gave to me. I am anxious to get the test kit to see what's what. I do seem to see a little improvement in her water and food intake. Not as many clumps in the box!
    I'll take a look at the form you recommend, too. Sounds like it has more places for more information.Thanks again for the support!!
     
  26. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    That's great you are writing it down. But we can do you one better. Here is a link to set up a google spreadsheet so you can track your doses and BG testing. There is also a section for notes that you can include anything else you like.

    If you need help setting up, understanding the spreadsheet, let us know. WE have plenty of tech savvy folks here.

    viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
     
  27. edie zumwalt

    edie zumwalt New Member

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    Jun 30, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I have a 7 year old female cat just diagnosed, Dodie. I am not sure how to post questions. Are there any retail stores that sell diabetic supplies?
     
  28. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Edie - You may want to start your own post that you can follow easily. To do that, on the top left of page, click new topic and then write your questions and check off the last box, above submit that says Notify me when a reply is posted This way you will get an email notification, when people reply to you.

    To help you get started, I'm going to cut/paste your question into a new post and then you just need to hit reply, type in a message and click the notify me button so you get the email notifications.

    Make sense?
     
  29. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    One thing - the natural balance is a little high in carbs for a diabetic cat at 13% calories from carbs. The fancy feast classic pates are much better and will give you a much better chance for regulation and possible remission!

    Wendy
     
  30. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks Wendy,
    I am slowly weening them off of the Natural Balance, but the vet wants to do this slowly. I have already introduced the wet food to them both with the Fancy Feast pates. So far so good.
     
  31. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Do it as fast as you can. That was the food that caused my Tiggy to fall out of remission a year ago and now I dont think he will ever get back in. You only have a short remission window..
     
  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi Jo, How are things going with Libby and her roomie Chase?

    I looked back and you said the test kit was supposed to come this week. I wanted to point you to these 2 excellent documents about home testing. I suggest reading them over and then coming back to ask any questions you might have, even before that test kit arrives.

    The how to's of home testing. how to home test tips and videos

    The how to make your cat more accepting of the process testing psychology Written by member Kpassa.

    I highly recommend bribes of freeze dried chicken. My Wink adores those. ;-)


    p.s. Would you be willing to update your signature with your name and your cats names?
     
  33. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Libby has been on the ProZinc insulin now for two weeks. I did a check with the glucometer yesterday and it is still a little over 300. How long does it take before the insulin starts to work? I have a call in to the vet to ask but thought someone out there may know what I should be expecting in the first two weeks. I've been successful at slowly switching her to the canned food with 4 or less carbs (fancy feast). Thanks!
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    When are you testing in relation to the shot?
    What is the current dose?
    What meter are you using for testing?

    We could help you more if we could see some BG numbers.

     
  35. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    The effect of insulin on glucose level often makes a smile shape when graphed.
    The glucose is almost always higher at shot time and almost always lower at nadir - about +4 to +6 hours after getting ProZinc - barring dose, diet (ex getting into high carb foods), or other health conditions (ex vomiting).
     
  36. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    So is she totally off the natural balance now?

    How often are you testing ? We recommend a test before every shot as well as a test mid cycle ( 5-7 hours after shot) and one before bed. That way you can get a much better picture of whats going on. You might not see anything with just an occasional test. And the before shot test is critical so you dont shoot when too low. Thats where teh spreasheet is very very useful for you, your vet and us!!

    Wendy
     
  37. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Over a month now.. up to 3.5 u of ProZinc (fro original 1 unit) .. counts still high (about 328 mid day). Totally off of the Natural Balance and only eating Fancy Feast with the lowest carb rating from the list for the last month. Pretty discouraged that the numbers aren't lower. She takes the shots really well, but the ear prick is horrible. I've tried everything (rubbing her ears, warming her ears, etc.) and can never get enough blood the first prick. Her little ears get sore after doing a curve for a day. I won't do the paw - don't need an infection if she sticks her foot into the litter pan. Just wanted to throw out an update for those interested.
     
  38. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thats great she is only on the low carb foods now. I have some questions which might give us more info into why she isnt coming down lower

    First, do you test her midday every day or every few days? Do you have any readings from the PM cycle? I would like to see some readings from the last week if poss...

    For testing - we might be able to tweak that to help you more

    1. what type of meter are you using?
    2. Are you using the lancets freehand or the tool?
    3. what size lancets are you using?

    Let me know as I might have more tips for you.
    Wendy
     
  39. buggyshaggy

    buggyshaggy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    hmm very detail article
     
  40. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hello KPassa,
    Thanks for the info. I finally got all of the items I need to do the testing. The tool for the lancets is awesome. I was having one heck of a time trying to do it without one. Good thing Libby is so patient! She's been great through all of this. She takes the shots without any hesitation and now that I can do the testing easier, we're good! I have weened both of my cats off of the dry food and have been giving them Fancy Feast with the lowest carb count, however, I am noticing that my male cat (non-diabetic) is gaining weight! Ugh! So I looked at the fat and calorie content and realized it is kind of high in Fancy Feast. I am going to try BFF (Best Friends Feline) food since, according to the list, has the least amount of calories, higher protein and less fat. Hopefully they will both like this food. It's hard to give one of them a different type of food than the other, since they are both curious as to what's in the others bowl! LOL We are currently using ProZinc and its been almost two months. Her numbers range between low 200's and low 300's. She is taking 4 units now. Have a follow up visit next week. I will do a curve for a few days before the visit. Maybe the new food will help, too. Not sure. Anyway, the Ketostix are the only thing I still need to buy. Can I get them from a drugstore or do I have to get it through the vet? Anyway, that's the latest... thanks for all the info!
     
  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Ketostik or the generic equivalent should be available at any drug store. Sometimes, you need to ask because they are kept behind the counter.
     
  42. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    The 200-300s are preshot numbers? When you do the curve I would get a few spot checks too for 2-3days in a row just to be sure there is no bouncing going on ie

    Preshot tests before each shot
    Mid cycle test 5-7 hours after morning shot
    Before bed test (many cats drop low at night so if this is lower than the evening preshot test you might want some tests later in the cycle)

    Wendy
     
  43. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks Kpassa for the info on the ketostix.
    The lowest was 214 midday - the highest 321 an hour after the first shot.
    I plan on doing a curve tomorrow - is this supposed to be done every two hours or only three times a day?
     
  44. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Because of bounces ( below), I prefer 4 + tests per day over a few days as opposed to a curve. But a curve can also be useful in addition to that - every 2 or 3 hours its up to you.


    Bounces - what are they and is my cat doing them?
    When a cat is first diagnosed, the blood glucose has probably been high for a while. As the insulin starts to take effect and numbers start to come down, the liver has to learn to adjust to the lower numbers. We call this "liver training school". But before it relearns that low numbers are ok, when the BG drops to a number lower than the liver is accustomed, or if BGs drop low, or if the BG drops suddenly, the liver”panics” and reacts by releasing counterregulatory hormones and glucagon. This drives the BG back up. This is what we call a "bounce". Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear so we are generally careful about increasing doses during the bounce. Once the bounce clears, then you can see the "real" numbers and determine if the dose needs to go up or down.
     
  45. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    OK now you have really confused me... a bounce???
    How do you know it's a bounce and not the real numbers? We're going on two months now - how long does it take to "retrain the liver?" This is the first I'm hearing about this phenomenon! Ugh! Why is this so complicated??? It's easier with people!
     
  46. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Sorry to confuse you. Bouncing is very common which is why infrequent curves can be inaccurate as you could be looking at a bounce day.

    Many cats bounce for a long time, months, longer.. It depends on the cat. And then one day they stop bouncing and maybe go into remission. The only way you know if they are bouncing is with testing and a spreadsheet to see what's going on.

    Its fairly easy to see. Usually you get a green or blue followed by high flat yellow pink or red numbers for a day or longer which doesn't correlate with the usual lantus action (gentle curve.. high at preshot, low around 5-7hours and a climb back to high numbers at the next preshot)

    Wendy
     
  47. edie zumwalt

    edie zumwalt New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    My name is Edie. I live in Briarcliff, Texas, a suburb of Austin. Dodie is my black female cat who was diagnosed the first of June. She was not eating and losing weight. I have three other cats and they all eat Iams dry food. After Dodie was diagnosed I read a lot on nutrition and how important it was to change them to wet food because of the carbs. I have slowly changed her to wet and still keep Prurina DM out for all the cats. She doesn't eat much dry and she really likes the wet. So changing her over was not to hard. We started out with 1 unit of Lantus. She is up to 4 now. I had one of those Frut??? blood test done the last part of July and her sugar was still running high. That is when her vet increased her insulin to 4 units. I don't notice her drinking so much water now since she is on the wet food but she still wants to eat all the time and she is gaining weight. I worry I am feeding her to much but she begs:(((( Any help for advice would be greatly appreciated. I still have a lot to learn. Edie
     
  48. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Hi Edie,

    If you start your own post, we can address your specific concerns in your post.

    Just click on the NewTopic box and ask your questions.
     
  49. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Anybody know the carb content in Fussie Cat canned food? I have been feeding my cats BFF (Best Felne Friends) because it was the lowest in carbs AND fat - so less calories. But someone recommended Fussie Cat - I can't find any information on this food.
     
  50. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Updated my signature and attached a spreadsheet. The Excel sheet was too complicated, so hopefully this Word doc gives enough info.
     
  51. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Over time this word doc could get unwieldy when it gets long and its hard to track trends on it. Deb can you help set up a spreadsheet ?

    The spreadsheet terminology
    AMPS =a.m. Pre Shot test value
    U=dose
    +1 is the test reading one hour after the shot, +2 is test after two hours and so on
    PMPS = p.m. Pre Shot test value

    Wendy
     
  52. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks for the signature info. That will help us to help you better.

    The word document can be used as a stop gap measure. Sort of like having someone post their numbers directly in the thread/topic/post/condo. It will get unwieldy as Wendy said.

    As Wendy said, I can help you with your initial setup of our SS template. I even get people started and enter the data they have. Send me a PM if you are interested.

    Sorry, we don't have any information on the carb content on that Fussie canned food you mentioned. I did look at the ingredients, and some of them may be ok, some of them look to be too high in carbs. The ones in gravy or sauce have a lot of carb ingredients like Tomato Paste, Carrot, Potato, Tapioca Starch, Green Pea. The ones in Aspic look like they might be ok. I saw some of them with Oligo Sugar in them. I would avoid those, you don't want to give a diabetic cat any food with sugar in it.

    I'd look closely at the food labels for those Fussie cat foods and not use any that have any starches (potatoes, green peas, tapioca, wheat, corn, soy, etc), fruits or vegetables, or that Oligo Sugar ingredient. We don't know how much of any of those ingredients are in those foods but you could experiment with them if you wanted to. Or call the manufacturer and request the "as fed" values. we can calculate the carb % by calories with that info.

    You could keep any of the gravy/sauce ones in your hypo tool kit, to help bring the BG's up if your cat drops low.
     
  53. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Can anyone out there tell me the difference between PZI and Lantus? I understand that Lantus has an 84% remission rate but that PZI is harder to get a regulated number without a lot of fine tuning, but is still a good insulin. Libby has successfully been switched to the BFF food for about 3 weeks now and we regularly test before each shot and sometimes mid-day. Her numbers are still all over the place, however today she seems to be holding in the 200s. We had a hypo event last week, so we've reduced her insulin from 4 to 1 and sometimes, if she is in the low 100's in the morning, I'll skip it all together. I'll try to keep up her on line chart if anyone is interested. Thanks!!
     
  54. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Cats do go into remission on Prozinc. It just take more fine tuning and testing and coming up with an individualized treatment plan for your cat.

    Lantus is a depot insulin, Prozinc is not, it's what is known as an in and out insulin. That depot gives Lantus a longer duration 14-20 hours and a flatter smoother curve. Prozinc has a duration of 10-14 hours in most cats. You'll need to discover what the duration is for your cat.

    More flexibility in dosing times and dose amounts with Prozinc. Those aspects can work better with some people's full lives and schedules.

    Probably one of the differences with Lantus that people have a problem wrapping their heads around, is the dose you give today, you might not see the full effects until a day or two later, maybe longer.
     
  55. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I like lantus as it doesn't have so much of the day to day fiddle factor. With pzi its trying to work out what dose to give. Lantus you hold the same dose for 3-5 days before deciding if its going to work. Pzi feels to me (although I don't use it) that its more time intensive for newbies and may require a deeper understanding. Plus there is more lantus support on here.

    I am going to PM Carl and see what his take is. He has a good understanding of both and if he thinks you stay on pzi then i would but we will need to make some tweaks.

    Tweak one. Let deb set up a spreadsheet for you.

    Wendy
     
  56. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks everyone...
    Deb, would you mind making up a spreadsheet from what I have posted or do you need more info. Once it is set up, I think I can tweak the Excel doc to include the columns I would like. I'm not a techie, so we'll see! :lol:
    Thanks for your help.
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Libby,

    See your PM for the information I need from you in order to do the setup for you.
     
  58. Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete


    Here's my take -
    All 3 are good types of insulin (Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc). The "L's" work alike, but a little bit different. Both are depot insulins, but users of each have their reasons for preferring one over the other, and a lot of it has to do with how well each of their cats responds to them.
    Prozinc is different in that it is not a depot-type insulin.

    I used compounded PZI, which is not exactly like Prozinc, but works the same way. Prozinc is supposed to work a little bit longer, but in terms of how they function in a cat's system, they are alike.

    Here's the best way I have ever heard the question "which insulin is best?" answered:
    "The best insulin is the one that works best for YOUR cat."
    There is no "best" insulin outside of that specific answer, in my humble opinion.

    I agree with what other people have said, in large part...
    You are more likely to find users of Lantus on the board. It's the most popular and used insulin here, has been for several years, and most experienced members on the board are using it, or have used it.
    The Tight Regulation protocol used by Lantus and Levemir users offers a cat the best chance at remission. Will it get every cat into remission? No. Every cat won't go into remission. Some need insulin for the rest of their lives. That's true no matter what type of insulin you use.
    There have been kitties who have not done well on Lantus, and have done well on Levemir. Others have done well switching to Prozinc. Former Prozinc users have been able to get their cats off the juice by switching to either "L" type insulin.

    The dosing logic is different between Prozinc and the "L's". The primary "number" that determines dosage and dosage adjustments if you are following the Tight Regulation Protocol is the "nadir" number. The protocol clearly sets out when you increase and decrease a dose, and how much you adjust the dose, usually in .25u increments.
    With Prozinc, there are a couple of different approaches you can use, but there is not a formal protocol available "here" that tells you what to shoot, or when to reduce or increase, or by how much. Other feline diabetes boards exist where people follow a "tight regulation" protocol for Prozinc, but nobody here uses or advises on those protocols.

    One way to use Prozinc is to determine a good starting dose, hold that dose for a few days, test at each preshot and test around nadir, then evaluate the data to determine if the dose needs to be adjusted. Most adjustments are also in .25u increments.

    Another way is to test at preshot and nadir, calculate how far the BG drops on a given dose, and then develop a "sliding scale" where you adjust the dosage based on your preshot numbers, to try to achieve a "nadir goal". That way does require a good bit of testing, and a good bit of experimentation.
    Many people believe that Prozinc is dosed just on the preshots, and can be adjusted based on the preshot test numbers, but that's not really true. You have to test mid-cycle just like you do with Lantus or Levemir, because you need to know if the dosage is too high, too low, or just right. You need to know "how low is low" in order to really know what a dose is doing.

    The real difficult aspect to using Prozinc is that there isn't a protocol to follow, so like Wendy said, there can be a day by day fiddle factor. The TR protocol for Lantus/Lev, make it easier, in my opinion. At least there are guidelines to follow that are based on scientific studies and proven to work. That, and there are far fewer people using Prozinc and advising on it. The experienced people who use or have used Prozinc are all great people, there just aren't as many of them that are active on the board on a daily basis.

    There are, in my opinion, a couple of benefits to Prozinc that don't exist with Lantus and Levemir.

    You can adjust the dosage on a daily or shot by shot basis, and expect to see results quickly, because there isn't a depot, and dose adjustments don't normally take long to "show up" in the numbers. So while you may have to "fiddle", you see pretty quickly if the fiddling "worked".

    You also have more flexibility as far as shot timing goes. If it's clear, based on data, that a shot isn't quite lasting 12 hours, you can shoot earlier, even an hour or two. And if it looks like the cycles last longer than 12 hours, you can shoot late, or you can adjust the dosage up (or down) to compensate for the adjustment in shot timing. But it takes data gathering, and experimentation. And mid-cycle testing.

    Bottom line?
    Cats can go into remission on any insulin. It's rare when you aren't using one of the "big three", but I have seen a couple that have gone into remission on Humulin, Caninsulin or others.

    Bob went off the juice after ten weeks on compounded PZI. Would he have gone OTJ on Lantus or Levemir? Possibly, but I'll never know. I used a sliding scale, where I adjusted his dose on a shot by shot basis, and his preshot numbers determined the dosage. I didn't follow a protocol. I followed my vet's advice at first, and when I felt that his dosage had gone too high at 4u, I went "rogue" on my vet and just started winging it. I started shooting lower doses, based on what I felt comfortable giving him. And it worked. For whatever reason. He was fed LC fancy feast and Friskees from day one after a lifetime of dry food. I never gave him a shot without testing first, but I didn't test nearly enough "mid-cycle". I wasn't an active member here for most of the time he was on insulin, but did post on another feline diabetes message board back then. Most of what I learned here I did so just from lurking and reading a lot. Anything I know about Lantus or Levemir I have learned from reading, from looking at spreadsheets, and from asking the wonderful experienced people who populate the TR forum a million questions. I've had a large number of "tutors" who have helped me understand how those insulins work. Not because I needed to know, just because I wanted to understand and they are gracious enough to teach me.

    There isn't any way for you to know for sure if a switch to Lantus will be best or will help Libby. If you feel you have been trying Prozinc for long enough to believe that it isn't working well, then yes, I think you should give a lot of thought to switching. I can tell you that if that is what you decide to do, you most definitely will not suffer from lack of input or experienced help. It would also be helpful if you have a vet who is willing to support switching, and who understands the Tight Regulation protocol. No matter which insulin you use, I think it is very important that your vet is "on board" and understands the logic behind what you are doing.

    OK, if you're eyes aren't bleeding from my usual wordiness by now, I hope all of that input helps!

    Carl
     
  59. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Well said, Carl! Just one of the many reasons why we all love you so much. :YMHUG:

    I always tell people I'm biased because I use Lantus, but any of the three (Lantus, Levemir, ProZinc) have been proven time and time again to work well in cats so any of those three are a "good choice."

    Read Carl's second-to-last paragraph again and think about whether or not you want to continue with ProZinc or give Lantus (or Levemir) a try.
     
  60. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks Carl for your input!
    I have a better understanding now on how PZ works, so it makes a little more sense. I'm going to give it another month and see how we do. I test before each shot and again before bed. This has been working so far. I got a little wiggy when she had a hypo event last week and cut way back - basically started over with a single unit and built up from there - so far nothing over 2 units. There have been mornings when her levels are in the low 100s so I don't administer any insulin, but 12 hours later, it can be up in the 200s or even 300s.
    One thing that did happen yesterday was Libby peed on the bed - in all of our 7 years together, she has never used anything but the box (which I keep meticulously clean). I'm not sure why it happened yesterday! Her urine does not smell like she has a UTI, but if she does it again, I'll have it tested. Hopefully this doesn't continue! I know UTIs are common but my vet said I would know if she had one by the smell of the urine.
    Anyway, that's it for now. I'll keep posting, so that maybe other PZ users can have a friend on the message board since, like you said, there aren't a lot of us out there.
     
  61. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Sounds like a good plan. Heres what I suggest though to make the most out of this month!

    - Set up the spreadsheet ( see your PM from deb)
    - Follow Carls suggested methodologies by testing at pre shot and around nadir. Hold each dose a few days. Make adjustments at 0.25 increments .Dont hold a dose too long if it isnt working. Plus with some experimentation you could develop a sliding dosing scale.

    Lastly, and I think this is key to getting better regulation, I would keep posting but instead do it on our PZI board http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24.

    I would post on a regular basis (maybe even daily or whenever you think a dose change may be needed) and that way the experience PZI users such as Carl and Sue & Oliver(GA) etc can keep an eye on you, look at your sheet , answer your questions and help advise on dosing.

    And keep us updated too!

    Wendy
     
  62. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    In case anyone is interested, I received a response from the Fussie Cat people on the Carb, Fat and Calorie counts for their canned cat foods:
    Fat (max) for our two Chicken based formulas is 1.5%
    Fat (max) for the rest of our Tuna based formulas is 1.4%
    Carbs (max) for our two Chicken based formulas is 3.0%
    Carbs (max) for the rest of our Tuna based formulas is 0.5%
    Calories (per can) for our two Chicken based formulas is 48
    Calories (per can) for the rest of our Tuna based formulas is 49
     
  63. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    what do the % mean? % by weight? as fed? dry matter? % calories? You want % calories from carbs as fed but that doesnt sound like thats it?

    Wendy
     
  64. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Per 3 oz. can.

     
  65. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    With the Max/Minimum, it looks like they gave you the Guaranteed Analysis and not the As Fed.
     
  66. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Not buying this brand anyway - we're feeding them BFF (Best Feline Friends) - High Protien, low carbs, low calories.
     
  67. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    BFF is pretty good - its just a lot of fish though. We recommend feeding fish only twice a week for the same reason humans shouldnt eat it that much - too much iodine.

    Hows Libby doing otherwise?

    Wendy
     
  68. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Maybe too much mercury?
     
  69. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    So far I thought Libby was doing well... numbers were consistently in the 200s . However, this week she has become completely lethargic. She is doing all of the three Ps just as if nothing was wrong, but won't play, sleeps all day. ugh... Vet said her numbers shouldn't be causing this type of lethargy.
    We went to the vet on Wednesday morning and they did a urinalysis (thought maybe a urinary infection) but that was negative. They drew blood and nothing popped up - no over abundance of white blood cells, so they didn't think it was an infection. No fever. They are running a complete blood panel again to see what's what. She lost another pound, but that may be attributed to the new food for the last month since it is lower in calories. Has anybody had this happen? I'm freaking out waiting for the test results which I am hoping will come in tonight. Any suggestions on what this could be from those out there that have been there and done that with their diabetic kitties??
     
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I see you have not set up a google spreadsheet to track the BG readings. It's much easier to track here than in the profile doc you have set up. Easier to see the trends and the color coding is very helpful. How to do a SS setup and link to signature. Only takes about 3 minutes.

    No recent updates with BG numbers, so I'm not sure what might be going on.
     
  71. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
  72. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Can't access the SS. Would you please change the share options to "anyone who has the link". That will give us read only access.

    Would you describe more why you think it might be neuropathy? Could be low potassium also I think.
     
  73. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Changed the setting. As for neuropathy... just reading as much as I can and that's the only thing that keeps popping up regarding weakness...nothing about low potassium has come up. Wouldn't that be only if she is peeing a lot? She's not - that part of her routine has returned to normal months ago... once she started on insulin.
     
  74. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I only remember reading about the low potassium from Carl&Bob. I thought I remember him talking about some general muscle weekness associated with the low potassium.You might want to PM him and ask him to come visit your post.

    Deborah & Shasta is another member that has a cat with low potassium, I think.
     
  75. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks!
     
  76. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Heard from vet tonight... looks like pancreatitis. No ketones in the urine. Fructosamine is above normal but blood is ok. No liver changes. Not neuropathy - and potassium is normal. We will start on antibiotics tomorrow. Wish us luck. This may be in the early stages since she is still eating and not hiding or seemingly in any pain (that I can tell).Anybody out there ever have to deal with this? Any support would be most welcome. Thanks everybody.
     
  77. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  78. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Libby is doing better after 4 days on antibiotics. She's getting back to her old self... now we are back to trying to regulate the injections. Hopefully this won't be a recurring problem. She scared the bejesus out of us. Four months of living on the edge and not knowing what to expect next has been rough for us and for kitty!
     
  79. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Antibiotics can cause irritation and stomach upset when they kill off some of the good bacteria along with the bad. Providing probiotics a couple of hours after the antibiotic helps restore good bacteria in the gut. A teaspoon of plain yogurt with active cultures may help, or FortiFlora (available at our shopping partner, Amazon, link at top of page).
     
  80. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Thanks for the info!
     
  81. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    I cant get your spreadsheet link to work in your signature? it seems to be broken somehow..

    Also you should try and get some mid cycle tests - its the best way to know how well a dose is working because she could be dropping too low, or not enough.. Preshot levels dont tell you that.
     
  82. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    She's doing really well today. Updated the spreadsheet again.
    Thanks
     
  83. chasenlibby

    chasenlibby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Very excited... Libby's numbers are consistently in the 100's this week on only 1.5 units of insulin. Now that she has finished the antibiotics and whatever it was that was ailing her has subsided, things are settling in. Phew! This is a good thing...... thanks to all for your support. :D
     
  84. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: My female 6 year old cat was just diagnosed with diabete

    Great! Can you give more numbers.. I would like to see how she is doing. Are you getting tests preshot as well as mid cycle?

    Wendy
     
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