My Introduction - Kitty Just Diagnosed

One of my 7 kitties (Rumpelteazer) was just diagnosed. Has to go to vet on Tuesday for the day for initial glucose monitoring/testing. I don't understand how she got this. Was not obese or anything. I am at a loss as to how I am going to regulate her food with 6 other kitties in the house. I will search around the forum for help on some issues I have regarding a diabetic cat in a multiple-cat household.....I don't want to keep her in a crate or in a room by herself. I also have her brother (Mungojerrie) and they are inseperable. :YMSIGH:

I went through the diabetes thing a few years ago with one of my 'senior' Siberian Huskys. Spent thousands of $$$$. He eventually went blind...but it was totally amazing how he adapted without being able to see.

 

You can feed everyone the same thing - low carb, canned or raw food.

For more info on feline nutrition (which your vet may not know), go to Cat Info. There's a pdf file you can print with food nutrition lists.

I mostly feed Friskies Turkey and Giblets or Chicken. There are 14 cats in the home, and I get the 13 oz cans for $0.84 each at Walmart. ITs 4 cans in the AM and 4 cans in the PM.

 

My vet said to start her on Fancy Feast tomorrow.

Jeepers Cats!!! My other kitties will be so spoiled if all they ate was FF. They are all used to having dry food available 24/7. Wonder how they would react to only being fed twice a day. nailbite_smile

I have a lot of 'browsing' to do on the forum....I am glad I found it.

 

hi - welcome to FDMB.
I have half your number of cats and switched them to canned when Honey was dx in Oct.
I figured it was the easiest as then I didn't have to worry about her getting into the wrong food and it was better for them - dry food causes dehydration in cats which can lead to lots of other medical issues as they get older.

Any low carb canned food is good - I feed Friskies pates and Fancy Feast Classics (nothing with gravy, sauce etc..) but Petsmart and Walmart's own brands are ok I think.

Its possible that just changing his diet could control his diabeties - and you don't have to feed twice a day. If you are at home, you can feed smaller meals more often.

Do you have any blood glucose numbers for Rumpleteazer (great name!)? ie. what did the vet base the diagnosis on?

 

Got 14 here with 2 being diabetic...everyone eats what the two diabetics eat..Friskies pate style canned cat food. With 14 just not opening that many little Fancy Feast cans.

Cats actually do better with diabetes than dogs, but it is fairly the same thing, right diet, a good insulin like Lantus, Levemir, or ProZinc and testing BGs at home. And asking a ton of questions here. We all have our own sugarcats and we live feline diabetes, there is a good chance you can't find a question we can't answer or at least don't know someone that does.

Mel, Maxwell. Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Welcome hon!

I have 3 cats, my male Lucian is diabetic and he has never been obese, always slim and muscular. I know now that his diet was a major, if not THE cause of the diabetes. :sad:

My cats have eaten dry food all their lives. I didn't know any better, as most of us here. I thought I was doing what's best. Once you learn about feline nutrition, you realize they need meat, water and the correct vitamins and minerals, not dry grains. You get that with low carb wet food.

All of mine have been switched over to canned foods, Friskee's, 9 Lives, Special Kitty (Walmart) and Grrreat Choice (Petsmart). All of these have several flavors with the correct carb content for all cats, not just diabetic kitties. I use these particular brands due to cost and having to keep my costs down. There are many excellent canned and raw foods, these just happen to be what I can afford and even my pickiest found some she likes. :lol:

So don't worry, you'll be able to feed your furbabies well and within your budget, whatever that may be.

You're in the right place, you will have all the support you will ever need here, there are lots of 'big hearts' on this board and will help you.

Wishing you healthy and happy kitties! dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat

 

there are several reasons why diabetes can happen - feeding dry food, steroid usage - injections, pills just to name two - obesity while it can be a factor, isn't a huge factor in cats.

Maui was both dry food and steroid use cat and that is how she got diabetes.

regarding your vet visit today - what is the vet doing? keeping the call all day to "regulate" or just demonstrating injection and home testing for you?

unless the cat has another medical issue, regulating a cat at the vet;s office just doesn't work. you can't regulate in one day and cats do better at home then at the vet.

there are three key factors to diabetes management - food, home testing and insulin

what insulin has the vet recommended? the three best are: lantus, levimer or prozinc

did the vet discuss/teach you home testing? if not, are you willing to home test? we can help you, if you are.

just let us know and we can give you the tools you need to get started.

 

Hi Misty & Good Morning Debbie! Also, they all "free feed". All will be well. You & your kitty are in good hands here :mrgreen: I have 2 civvies and sugar-boy Gobbles--they get the following brands: FF, Friskies, Special Kitty -- Debbie: I didn't know about the PetSmart brand; which varieties have low carbs and how much %

 

I have 8 cats and all of your cats will be fine. There will probably be a lot of begging at first, but they will adjust to the schedule.

 

Hi and welcome,
I only have one sweet cat...Molly, she adapted well to wet food (Fancy Feast and Petsmart Great choice) and actually needed insulin briefly. Diabetic cats do better with small frequent meals and I actually witnessed this by hometesting her, it's amazing to see how quickly their BG numbers drop 2 hours after eating. When I work, I use an automatic timer that opens every 6 hours. I mix up wet food and water then freeze it. She gets her breakfast which she will eat over a couple of hours, then lunch will be the thawed food in the timer which she eats over a couple of hours then about an hour before I get home her dish opens and she gets some freezed dried chicken as a treat. I feed her supper and depending on how much she has eat of that determines whether I give her a little top up for overnight.
It is a little more labor intensive than the dry food....BUT it is so worth it to see her more active and happy. When I'm off I give her regular little meals.
Use this website as much as possible, they truly are a wonderful resource!

 

Hi...Thanks for your response

Her brother's name is Mungojerrie...from CATs :smile:

She will be going to the vet on Tuesday for the day so her first glucose levels can be monitored to determine insulin dose to start with.

I noticed she was drinking a lot of water & there has been more urine in the litter boxes so I had an idea what was going on. When I took them for their yearly vet check-up/shots, I mentioned it. Vet did bloodwork...and....it was confirmed.

 

I will keep you all posted and will surely be spending a lot of time browsing and asking questions here. Thanks so much!

 

Just like to point out that her bg numbers will likely be higher at the vet - cats generally do not like the vet :sad: and suffer stress.
Stress puts up their bg.

If there are no other medical issues or concerns, why don't you switch to wet food and in a few days time, test her bg yourself?
You could start to get her ready for this by touching her ears more - just rubbing between your fingers, getting her used to being gently kept still, maybe taking her to the "testing" spot...

Doing home testing is much, much cheaper than having it done at the vet and the numbers are more accurate - no vet stress.

There is a learning curve at the start - we all went through it and came out the other side .
We have plenty of suggestions to get you started and there are a couple of videos on youtube.

home testing

 

Tuesday will be her first visit after being diagnosed. My vet needs to determine what type of insulin to use + how much to start with. I will then be testing her myself at home and giving her the insulin as prescribed by my vet.

One good thing.....she is a light-colored kitty. Will be easier to see where to get blood for testing from her ears. If it was one of my black cats....I'd have to shave their ears!!! :roll:

 

I know all this can be overwhelming, but just wanted to say that when Molly got diagnosed my vet wanted to start her on 2.5 units of lantus twice a day. I put this on this site and got very cautionary responses. I am a RN for over 20 years and I understand the feeling that if it's prescribed then its correct (although I've lost times the amount of times I've corrected the medical staff I work with!), however I also know that it's important to listen to the people that have had to take this journey too. Honestly if I had given her that dose I believe I would have injured her or killed her! She responded so well to change of diet that she needed insulin briefly.
I would for sure check back with the folks here after you've seen your vet

 

Don't worry....I will be 'comparing notes'. There is so much to review. I wish I already knew what my vet will prescribe so I know more specifically where to go on the forum. Can't wait until Tuesday !!!! confused_cat confused_cat

 

Hm. I wouldn't do an all day vet visit for your kitty and here's why:

1) Most cats are stressed at the vet and their glucose will run higher. Doses based on those numbers will be TOO HIGH and may harm or kill your cat by causing hypoglycemia (too low glucose levels)

2) There is a formula using lean body weight to estimate starting dose of Lantus, which is one of the better insulins. It is 0.25 * lean weight in kilograms = estimated units of Lantus.

3) Its an unncessary cost to you and stress for your cat.

American Animal Hospital Association diabetes treatment guidelines, 2010. Please read and discuss with your vet.

 

Feeding multiple cats the canned food is easier than I thought it would be. I had to get over my preconceived notion that the dry food was cleaner/safer to leave out all day than the canned food. It comes out of the can sterile, I belatedly realized. I didn't get a timed feeder, and I don't freeze it, which are both great ideas, but I do mix it with water to keep it from drying out as fast and put it in clean bowls morning and evening. It stays fresh enough for them to keep eating it for the 12 hours they have it. Thinning it down seems to help all my cats eat a more appropriate amount for their needs. The really fat one is a little less fat now, and Zoni has gained his weight back. Before I started doing that, the fat one would gorge and sometimes barf, but she hasn't barfed her food since I've been thinning it down. So, it might not be too hard feeding all of them the same canned food, once you get used to it, it's almost just as easy as the dry, and the health benefits are so very worth it.

 

Oh, p.s. The water is bottled water, since Zoni doesn't knock it out of the bowl when it's mixed with his food. I wanted to get the good water into them and less tap water, since ours here is so full of chemicals you can smell it when you turn on the tap. I don't drink it either. I think it might be more important than it seems.

 

Hey there

It's a lot of information to take in at first. And unfortunately, Many vets don't know enough about diabetes in cats. They re great generalists but they just don't know enough detail about diabetes and are out of date.. You want to be as educated as possible so that you do the best for your cat... So here is my suggestions

1. Change to wet food right now.. That way his blood glucose will start to come down and it will help to regulate him.
2. Pick up a blood meter (link and info below) and do a few baseline tests before the vets. You will need to test his blood to keep him safe from hypos etc once he is on insulin.
3. Read lots and get ready with questions for us and your vet. (Really you want lantus, levemir or prozinc insulin.)

Let us know how you get on, please let us know what the vet says about dose, before you give it.(give us an hour to see your message!). As BJ said, he may prescribe too high a dose and we want to be careful not to overdose.

Here is more info including a getting started shopping list

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rd6sMfsrNB41yQVEqpyjlHrJsDIbGEhbRIWR4QAwu3c/pub

Wendy

 

ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile This is all so confusing!

Rumpelteazer looked pretty bad last night....looked so sad + lethargic. I was so scared.

When I came home from work this morning, she looked perkier. Gave her and the rest of the crew Fancy Feast. Everyone chomped it down no problem.

Rumpel sure looked a lot better after eating.

About an hour ago, I saw her by the dry food bowls (I didn't take them away yet). Anyhooo...I grabbed a can of FF and took her into my den so I could close the door......didn't want the other 6 to wake up from their daily afternoon snooze session LOL. She gobbled it down and laid down by my chair....was purrrrring like I never heard before.

I believe my vet is going to recommend the AlphTrak. "Sorry Ms. Vet......not in the budget".

Even though Rumpel's first day-monitoring at the vet isn't until Tuesday + she is NOT on any insulin yet, I am going to buy a meter/strips/etc tomorrow (Sunday) morning after work just so I can do some testing myself.

QUESTIONS:

What are the "ranges" ? What is high(good) .... low(bad) .... normal(okay) ???? I am not sure if her results will be any cause for major concern. confused_cat confused_cat confused_cat


Does it matter when I test her? Before meal....after meal....anytime??? I will keep a log of time + results.

I noticed that many here use a meter from Walmart. My local Walmart is a 20 mile roundtrip I will go to my CVS. (YAY...I do have ExtraBucks to use). Any other non-Walmart meters that are reliable and not too expensive?

Please respond asap....I would especially like the "meter" info soon. I must get up for work at 10:30 tonight....so sleep will be happening at 6:00 :roll:


BTW....I am definitely taking ALL by kitties off dry food. Fancy Feast for ALL. :RAHCAT :RAHCAT


Thank You Everyone!!

Hmmmmm....should I be starting a new thread with questions or stay here for now?

 

hi - so glad you are making the change to wet for all of your kitties - I'm sure it will save on vet bills in the long run as other illnesses are reduced.
Also, great that Rumpleteazer likes the wet food and looked more happy after eating.
Friskies pates are also good to use and cheaper - I mix and match with my 3.

I use the Relion..don't really know any others. You can get it online from ADW (link at the top) and they have the strips that are cheaper than at Walmart.
Another member wrote:

A cat is considered regulated when they are in the 200s+ at preshot and below 100s at nadir (lowest number in 12 hour cycle) - but no lower than 40. They are considered in remission when they range from 40-120 for 2 weeks, off insulin.
This is with human glucose meters.

You need to test more than 2 hours after she's eaten otherwise you can get a food spike.
This is most important for her pre-shot numbers as you really need to know her true number otherwise she could go too low in the cycle and that's dangerous.
We use a spreadsheet on Google docs to log numbers - the template is all setup and you just add in the numbers - very easy. It means the experts here could step in and review the numbers quickly if you needed any help.

 

Thats great news on removing the dry food

You want to test before every shot. Then depending on your schedule, around midday (5-7 hours after her shot) and once before bed. Maybe a few spot checks occasionally at other times during the week. It will vary a bit though depending on how her blood glucose level is since we will want to see trends but thats a good start and we play it by ear.


The thing with the Walmart meters is that the strips are cheap (50 for $9 as opposed to something like $50 like some meters) so even though its a long trip you will save quite a bit of money in the long run. You can order online as Denise said.. But if you still want to go to walgreens here are meter reviews - just dont choose anything with "lite" or "true" in the name as they tend to be inaccurate... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjcBiiIVLby8dDUzZmMzUmNmVUtWWERST2xidWxnUVE#gid=0

FYI Heres a shopping list.

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion or Arkray
2. Matching testing strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin ointment to heal the wound
6. Ketone urine test strips ie Ketostix or ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
7. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
8. karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
9. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy

 

And Ii would be firm with your vet that you will consider ONLY the three insulins recommended here- Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc. They might try to give you Humulin but refuse it as it really isn't as effective as the others.

Lev and Lantus you want a prescription for the PENS- not the vial and you pick it up at human pharmacies- the supply closet has coupon links and call around for the best price. ProZinc your vet has to order for you.

But be firm- YOU are paying for it. If you vet hasn't bothered to do any research on this you shouldn't pay for their out dated 'best insulin treatment' from before 2006.

 

Well.. I am off to Walmart and Petsmart for meter and food.

No sleep for me today....been up since 11:00PM for work. I want to try my hand at 'testing' today.

Tomorrow (Monday) ... I want to do my own "curve" before vet visit on Tuesday. Just curious to see results + differences. PLEASE give me info on exactly to do my curve.....when/how often to test .... before food/after food .... Yes....ALL DETAILS PLEASE.

I will check back here when I get home.

 

Its really not a curve if she isnt on insulin. The curve tracks insulin action over the period it works. But if you want to show your vet numbers I would do the below. If you feed at other times then note those during the day.

am test - first thing in the morning, immediately before breakfast
+2 - two hours after breakfast/am test
+5 - five hours after
+8 - 8 hours after
+ 12 pm test - twelve hours after morning test


Wendy

 

Thanks for the info Wendy. As you might have noticed...I am very new to this confused_cat

I bought the ReliOn Confirm (blue one) and 50 strips. And $71.00 worth of Fancy Feast....bought a case of each of these flavors (since I will be feeding ALL 7 kittys FF for now):

Turkey & Giblets - Classic
Chicken - Classic
Ocean Whitefish & Tuna - Classic
Chicken & Tuna = Flaked
Tuna - Flaked

I hope these will be okay for Rumpelteazer ... all food bowls will be available for her.

After insulin + syringes + vet visit.....I am going to be totally broke. nailbite_smile nailbite_smile :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH:

Going to try a test in a little bit....just to make sure I do it right + see how she reacts. Wish Me Luck.

Will check back later.

 

Good luck! Let us know how you get on and dont be disheartened if you dont have any success the first time.. just give her a treat and try again in a few hours. And read these tips https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Those FF are fine but if we arent seeing her going low enough in BG we might want to go lower in carbs and so just feed classics and not the flaked but lets see how she gets on with these.

Insulin vial is an expensive upfront cost but if you keep it in the fridge and dont shake or roll it should last you up to six months. And if you stick with us and do home testing you shouldnt need to go to the vet as often for curves since you can do them at home.

Let us know how the testing goes!

Wendy

 

Just tried it out....got blood real fast. Seemed like a lot too ?!?!

Meter said 203.

Gave her and the rest of the gang more FF.

Will try the 'just for numbers' testing tomorrow.

 

Great job!

Maybe shes a bleeder (were the ears real warm?) or maybe you hit the vein. To be sure next time try and aim away from the vein and closer to the ear edge.

My Tiggy is a bleeder most of the time.. sometimes his ears are cold and it takes me a few attempts but most of the time he seems to have hot ears and bleeds a lot. No biggie.. I just apply pressure for 10-15 seconds and then neosporin and its fine.

Wendy

 

Human meters are 'off' a certain percentage compared to animal meters....correct?

Since the ReliOn Confirm said 203 .... what would her 'animal' reading be?

 

YES! Oh-ah-ah-ah (dark and sinister laughter :twisted: ) You have now joined the vampire club :lol: :roll:

Hey- first time bleeder is great- you got a result and the kitty didn't get too mad at you. Success is truly a blessing.

A great number- Still could use insulin but not too much. I would only start with .5u when you do. Remember- Levemir, Lantus, and ProZinc are the only insulins you want to even consider. If they try and foist something else off on you be blunt and ask how old is there FD knowledge- 2006? That year the Rant and Rand study came out about Lantus being a better insulin to use for cats.

 

Animal meters read lower I do believe- so about 183 to 173.

 

Sorry- they read higher- so it would be 233.

 

At the low end, a human glucometer may read 30 points lower than an AlphaTrak, which is close to a lab reading.
That being said, there are reference numbers for using human glucometers with cats and those are what we go by here.
The FDA allows glucometers to be sold if they read +/- 20% of the 'true' lab value.
This means
100 -> 80 to 120
200 -> 160 to 240
3pp -> 240 to 360

Notice the range widens as the test value gets higher. This isn't going to change what you do. And if you ever get a surprising result, retest, or test yourself to check if the meter is reading properly. Two test ranges which overlap may be considered equal.

Test strips can be defective, too old, and damaged by excessive heat.

 

Good job.
We're so proud of you, another home tester and another kitty that can be managed. I know it is something that you will have to experiance yourself, but I can tell you from my experiance, testing brought Ruben and I closer. I know sounds weird now, but you will see. It really does.

 

Dont worry about the reading being off a little. every meter brand and probably every meter varies. What is important is the trends and if she is low. And the variance tends to be a lot less at lower numbers where its important.

A normal cat is 50-130 or so. And at 200 ish thats higher than it should be. However now you have made a diet change you might well see a drop in her numbers.. which is why you are testing.

Wendy

 

UPDATE

On Monday (3-4-13) I used the Confirm ReliOn to do my own testing on Rumpelteazer. These readings are without being on insulin. Vet appointment is Tuesday.

Here are readings:

First # is meter reading. I added 30 to compensate for "pet". Last # should be her "pet" reading (I suppose)

7:25AM ----- 186 + 30 = 216 Reading before food. Fed FancyFeast after test.
9:19AM ----- 308 + 30 = 338
12:25PM -----293 + 30 = 323
3:46PM ----- 160 + 30 = 190 Fed FancyFeast after test.
8:00PM ----- 217 + 30 = 247

I tested myself with the meter to see an actual "human" reading would be. I was 100.

I appreciate all comments on my 'practice' testing


Tuesday (3-5-13):

She is at the vet for monitoring to determine insulin dosage. Just called vet....they want to keep her overnight to make sure initial dose will be correct. :sad:

She will be on ProZinc.


Feeding the 'crew' only canned food (Fancy Feast) is making me crazy. :roll: :YMSIGH:
Rumpleteazer loves it ... chomps it right down :RAHCAT
Moochie & Tyke won't even eat it .... even tried mixing with the dry foods they "prefer" .... turned up their kitty noses and walked away. Tyke even did the 'try to cover it up move' with his paw. :roll:
JaRul throws up after eating it YUK!!!! ... back to dry food for her I guess.
Chloe & Mungojerrie & Rasql eat it right up...no problem.

They are all so used to having food available 24/7, trying to feed them at certain times is going to take some getting used to. When it is time to feed...I can't get the cans opened fast enough for the 4 that eat it !!!! Have to make sure Rumpelteazer doesn't eat any of the dry food.


Will update tomorrow (Wednesday) after I pick her up from vet. Will probably have a ton of questions LOL.

 

Adding 30 only works at the very low ranges (ex human 50; AlphaTrak 80 is as low as you want to ever go on purpose). As the test values get higher, the difference between a human glucometer and a pet glucometer will widen. That's why you use the reference ranges set for your meter.

You may need to modify the dose when you get home; cats are usually stressed at the vet office and the glucose may be as much as 100 points elevated there vs at home.

Some reading on ProZinc/PZI type insulins here

 

I myself would not add the 30, it just adds confusion. Remember, the meters are only accurate to +/- 20%.
Also, this formate is what is typically used here:
AM PS (preshot) 186 (no insulin given)
+2 308
+5 293
+ 8.5 190
PM PS 247

 

I am confused by your post. :YMSIGH:

Why do you indicate the first 3 of my 'numbers' without 30 added ... but the last 2 have the 30 added to them. Can you please explain?

I wish I could afford the AlphaTrak. Then I would not be so confused. I have a feeling that my vet is going to really 'push hard' that I get the AlphaTrak....it is definitely not 'in the budget' right now. I want to do what is best for my kitty. This unexpected issue will totally wipe out my $$$$ for the week....I don't even want to know what this first total vet bill will be today when I pick up Rumpelteazer. :sad: I am guessing that after this first visit, future cost won't be too much.

 

BJM....

What do you mean by

?

ohmygod_smile I am soooo confused with the meter range stuff. confused_cat confused_cat

I don't want to read things the wrong way and hurt/kill my kitty. Geeee...this was so much easier when I had to take care of my diabetic Siberian Husky....I never had so many questions about what to do and how to do it. :roll:

 

All of our literature on FDMB is written for human meters. 90% of us use them due to the high cost of pet meters. When we say below 50 is hypo, and 50-120 is a good "normal" range, and 200 is kinda high, we mean on human meters. So don't add anything, it will just confuse everyone (including yourself! ) I believe this is what BJM meant by "reference ranges".

Yes pet meters may be more accurate to true lab values, but all of our literature and guidelines are written for human meters and have already taken this into account. So it doesn't make pet meters any better. We go by trends and number ranges, not exact numbers down to the digit. Human meters are just fine for that!

 

Exactly :smile:

You can monitor and manage the diabetes using an everyday, inexpensive human glucometer. Tell your vet that unless the clinic is willing to donate an AlphaTrak or iPet, pay for the strips, and provide them at any hour of the day or night, you're not getting one. Its exorbitant compared to the cost of most human glucometers.

 

ARRRRGGHHHHH !!!!!!! I feel like I am going to lose my mind !

Home from vet.

Not hyper T4

Give 1 unit ProZinc twice a day after food. (Since they gave dose at 8AM...I will be on 8AM + 8PM schedule. I have to set my alarm for night shot...I get up for work at 10:30 or Midnight depending on day of week....so I am sleeping at shot time. ohmygod_smile )

They didn't have the 'curve' info ready yet....going to mail me a copy. WTH !!

Said I don't have to test her.....should be fine on the 1 unit twice a day. Screw it.....I will test her myself anyway.....just to see how things are going.

Back to vet next Tuesday for curve and follow-up.


I am trying to get all my cats on the same feeding schedule as she is. They are ALL in the kitchen meeeoooowwwing and staring at me!!! They all want to eat. Jeepers Cats !!!! On this twice-a-day feeding...even though they are not fat/obese....they will be skinny as rakes in no time! nailbite_smile

I am dealing with tons of stress in my life already ... now this... I will need 'therapy' soon. :roll:

Thank You for letting me vent a little. :YMSIGH: :cry:

 

WOW...your explanation makes me much less confused. Thank You....Thank You....Thank You !!!!!!

 

This is a great place to vent; we all feel your pain. :mrgreen: Very few vets are completely up to date on FD. Good that you plan to test. The vet can't control whether you do that. As far as the curve next week, by then you will have a spreadsheet full of numbers to fax him and can politely decline his curve.

There is no reason to feed only twice a day. The important thing is for your diabetic not to eat 2 hours before the preshot. (Food raises bg levels.) You want your test before the shot not to be food influenced. Lots of people leave the food out and let the cats graze. You can also freeze it and they can eat as it thaws.

With ProZinc, you can change the times up. Depending on the numbers (over 200 and for sure headed up) you can shoot 20-30 minutes early over a period of a few days and get to the times that are more ideal. I would just do it with the guidance of the PZI forum members: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24 I post both there and in Health so will watch out for you.

Here is a shopping list for hometesting:

A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

How to get the cat ready for home testing

While you wait, you can get your kitty ready for testing.
First pick a place where you want to test. Some people use the kitchen counter, a blanket on the floor, between your legs while sitting – whatever works for you. Take the kitty there and give him/her lots of praise while you play with his/her ears. Give a treat and release. Next time, add the rice sack (thin sock filled with raw rice, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) or a prescription pill bottle filled with very warm water. Lots of praise, treat and release. Finally add the lancet so he/she will get used to the noise. The hope is that when you finally poke, they will be used to the process and know a treat is coming!

And a video: Video for hometesting

Let us know how we can help. We're your new support group and we are available for whining, screaming, hugs and information. :mrgreen:

 

Hon as Sue said there is no reason to only feed twice a day in fact smaller more frequent meals are actually better for her.

Personally I have 14 cats and they all eat what and when my two diabetics do...Yeah in the very beginning they thought they were going to starve to death when I took away the automatic dry food feeders but they quickly adapted to being fed 4 times a day. Around here they get breakfast, lunch, dinner and a before bed snack and do just fine. Now mine I have set times for because I'm home with them all day and also have a 97lb drooler that will happily clean up anything the kitties don't but lots of folks here free fed canned food just like they use to dry food, you just mix a little water into it to keep it moist and leave it down for them to nosh on as they will.

After the initial adjustment period all of mine thought they hit paydirt when mom and dad brought home the first sugarcat because they found the canned stuff to be so much tastier than their old cereal diet. (We adopted our diabetics as diabetics).

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Thanks for your responses. Some of your wording made me chuckle. :lol:

I started the 'spreadsheet'....will go to forum/post info about how to get it into my signature.

Going to do a test at 4:00 and then at the 8:00 shot.

Cat on ProZinc.....I need ProZAC :lol:

Wish our 'smilies' were all kitties. ;-)

 

Its OK to shift your shot time by 15 minutes per shot and no more than 30 minutes in one day, depending on how sensitive the cat is.

Since you're just starting out, I'd go with 15 minute increments, once a day. Daylight savings time is this weekend, if you follow it in your area, so that may need to factor in too. Most folks will be trying to get the shots in earlier each day so that on Sunday, they'll be back on track. If you need the time later, on Sunday, it will be an hour later due to the change.

We can help you calculate whatever time adjustment you need to make.

 

RE: Daylight Savings Time

My job requires that "we do not change our clocks until we are done with our work". Soooo....I will be getting up for work at 10:30PM EST on Saturday night....will give feed & give shot at 8:00PM EST. I will be back home on Sunday morning at between 9:15AM DST and 9:30 DST.

Help me figure this one out!!! confused_cat AGAIN !!! LOL

 

BTW....don't try to click on my signature link. It did not work. Will try to figure it out tomorrow. Have to do some things around the house. :roll:

 

And normally you would shoot at 8pm? If so, you could shoot at 8:30 Saturday night and 9:15 Sunday morning. He might be a little high both days, but you can get him back on track. This is assuming you are not getting unusually low numbers, so I would plan to have some data by then. That would get you to possible shot times of 9:30am and 9:30 pm. Would that help?

 

Since tonight will be the first time I am dosing and my vet said I do not have to test BG's.....but I want to test ..... when do I test????

Test - Food - Shot
Food - Test - Shot


OR WHAT !???!?!?

Thank You confused_cat

 

I would try a test before it's shot time. People are not always successful the first time. Remember to heat the ear at least a minute or two and aim for those capillaries that run off the vein to the edge of the ear. If you have trouble, come on and ask for help. You don't want to be trying to test and having your shot time go by.

Then, once you are confident, it is always test, feed and shoot. Lots of us shoot while the cat is eating and they usually don't notice. Food raises bg levels so you want a test that is not influenced by food.

Do you have all your supplies? The rice sack or pill bottle and the larger size lancets.

 

All 7 of my kitties are ready to tear my head of right now....since I am waiting to feed them when it is time for Rumpelteazer to eat. YIKES!!!!

I sure have a lot of 'life-adjusting' to do from now on.

BTW......I absolutely HATE Daylight Savings Time.....always did & always will. I am probably in a very small minority on that. LOL

 

I'm confused. What would your ideal shot times be?

I know it's hard when they are hungry. You could take your diabetic in a room alone with you, give him a couple treats and try the testing. (a few treats won't mess up the number)

 

Normal shot times would (should) be 8AM & 8PM. 7:30 and 7:30 would be better. I know I will have to adjust 'my' schedule for her....but that is something we do for the ones we love. Just hope I hear the alarm and get my butt out of bed .... would not be a good thing if I missed her evening shot.

Maybe I will take her into my den and feed the others downstairs. I can then feed her later in time for her shot. Awwww....it's almost 7:00....they can wait 45 more minutes. Believe me....they are not undernourished. LOL

 

Let's see what her number is. If it's not sky high, you might just skip a shot and get on the schedule you want.

 

Finally got Rumpelteazer's SS in my signature. YAY !!! Her info for today is posted.

She is getting a little fed-up with me poking her ears. :roll: :YMSIGH: One more 'poke' tonight at 8:00 before her food+shot. I want to keep testing her during the day for a few days.....but.....maybe I should just do the AMPS + PMPS tests. Give poor kitty a break.

Any comments on her readings?

 

Other than adjusting for low readings mid-cycle (the nadir - about 5-6 hours after ProZinc is given), you'll want to just hang tight and let the dose 'settle'. This may take a few days. Some cats will fluctuate greatly when a dose is started or changed. We call it "new dose wonkiness" ;-)

A reading below 50 means its too much insulin was given. In that event, follow the instructions on How to Treat Hypos to manage the cat.

The next shot generally should be 0.25 units lower, unless the cat bounces sky high from going to low. Ask for advice then to see if you should 'shoot through the bounce' before taking the reduction in dose.

 

He got a big drop from the 400 to 188 - more than 50%. Continue to get a test around +8 and +10. He may continue to go down, or the 188 may be his lowest point. Yet to be seen. The insulin is definitely working, which is encouraging, and he got nice numbers after that high preshot, so that is good news.

He may bounce from that 188 - a bounce is when his body senses a lower number than he is used to and it releases extra sugar. It can mean he will bounce high back into the 400s later in the cycle. The only way to get rid of bounces is time. His body eventually gets used to the low numbers and quits panicking with extra sugar.

He may have a long cycle and have a lower number at pmps than he did this morning. If this is what happens - if he continues to go down - then you will need to be careful with your pm dose. You want to be sure his numbers are headed up (and the cycle of insulin is finished) before you give more insulin.

Let's see how the rest of the cycle looks. But the blue mid cyle is certainly enouraging.

Good job on the poking. You can put a thin smear of neosporin with pain relief on the place where you poked. Also, holding the spot for a few seconds after the poke will help with the bruising.

 

maybe try this for the cats that wont eat fancy feast http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

For JaRul it sounds like scarf and barf to me.. she likes it so much she eats it too fast. Try smearing it on a flat plate for her to force her to eat it more slowly. Or smaller more frequent portions.
I put out a ton of food in the morning and night and they munch all day.

Good job on the spreadsheet! I agree with the others, i dont see the point in going back for another curve. You can do that at home and save yourself some $

Wendy

 

I see a pattern now. Was high at amps...then went lower until +8.....then started back up for pmps time. This shows me how the ProZinc went through her system.....correct? I looked at some other members SS's, but actually being able to see Rumpelteazer's pattern is very interesting.

Well...everyone is fed (including my Betta fish) and it is time for bed. Sweet Dreams to all the SugarCats. I-)

 

Hi,
If you see this before you head to bed, is there any way you can test her again in 3 hours or so?

The reason I ask...
Today she got a really nice drop in BG from that 1u dose, from 400 to less than 200. Her number technically was "rising" from the 188 you saw, but not a whole lot to that 204 at test and shot time. I'm not sure what sort of reaction she'll have to that dose when she's only starting out at 204 tonight.

Did she eat well when you gave that shot?

If you do see this, and test her and you see a lower number, it would probably be a good idea to feed her again to make sure the number doesn't keep dropping. I won't be awake, I have to get up for work at 4:30, but if you do test and see a lower number, post it here. If it's really low, add a "911" icon to the top post in this thread so that people will see that you need assistance if you do need any.

Carl

 

Yes, that is a good curve for ProZinc with the nadir a little late.

I am going to try to send you a private message. The one unit at pmps should be fine, but it is so early in this sugar dance and you got a 50% drop from one unit today. If you get a 50% or more drop tonight, he might drop low. If you can, I would try to check sometime during the night just to be sure he is in safe numbers (about 50) If he is below 40, copy off the Hypo thread and follow the directions. Post here also. There are sometimes people on late at night.

 

My human does it the first way. That's the way the vet told him to do it.

He tests me, and I HATE that ear stick. Then he rewards me with food. And then I get the shot.

He cheats a little. A lot of times, he will put the food down, and when I start to lap at it, he gets my blood sample. It takes time for the food to digest so it won't mess up the readings when it's done that quickly. Then he lets me eat, and then I get the shot.

 

DAMN IT ----- Must have been a "fur shot" this morning. 343 @ +8. angry(2)_cat angry(2)_cat

Now I have to start all over again.....she is getting very tired of me poking her ears. They are getting quite red. I use Neosporin with pain....the cream kind and hold her ear for a little bit....just like I am supposed to. Running out of areas that are not 'red'. I am sooooo stressed and so is Rumpelteazer. I am trying so hard to make this process easy for both of us, I have many personal issues going on also....it is making it so difficult.....but.....I HAVE TO KEEP TRYING.

 

No, you don't have to start all over. This happens to everyone at some point. You just expect a higher number than normal at the next shot time, and you put today in the rearview mirror is all. It's just one day, one number.

What was her number this morning when you gave the shot, and how much was the dose?

Carl

 

Maybe not a fur shot. She was below 200 for her morning shot and you gave one unit. It is possile that she went lower at +5 -+7 and the number tonight is a bounce. Or it could have been a fur shot but usually you can feel wetness where you shot. There is really no way to know yet. Every test you take at different times helps us see patterns and decide how she reacts to lower numbers and higher numbers. Think of this process of gathering data. She didn't become diabetic overnight; she won't settle into the insulin overnight. It will take a while. But every test you take gives you more confidence and gives us more information.

I really think I would give one unit tonight. The other day you shot one unit on the 433 and she went down more than 50%. If you possibly can, I would get a test before bed to see how things are heading.

 

Ooops, nevermind.. I did the logical thing and looked at her spreadsheet for the data!

OK, I don't think this was a fur-shot necessarily.
What might have happened....
You gave 1u on a AMPS number of 199.
What could have happened is that her BG dropped low about 5-6 hours later. Low enough to cause her system to "panic". A diabetic cat is not used to low BG numbers. So when they happen, it can trigger an instinctive reaction that we call a "bounce". Her pancreas and liver will release "sugar" into her bloodstream, because they think the BG is too low for comfort. That results in a much higher BG number right after it happens. IF this is what happened, then the 384 is just a bounce.

What this could be telling you is that 1 unit on a number around 200 is actually too much insulin.

If you look at the AM cycle on 3/7. You see how she dropped from 433 all the way down to 188 on a 1 unit dose? Well, today, if she dropped that much, her number would be negative, and she'd have had a hypoglycemic crisis that can actually be fatal. Not trying to scare you, but trying to illustrate what could have happened. I'm thinking that her BG got to a critically low number, and her body reacted in "self-preservation mode".

What this means is that if you want to give insulin on a 200 or so preshot, then you will need to give a much smaller dose. Like .25 units, or maybe .5 units. I know it's hard to even see that in the syringe, but do you think that would be possible to do? If not, we can look at maybe having you switch to a different type of syringe, and using a conversion chart to figure out how to draw up tiny doses under 1 unit more accurately.

Carl

 

I did feel wetness on her fur this morning....that's what made me think I did the 'fur shot'. Her SS is now updated. Any comments are truly appreciated. I will be going to sleep soon....please EM me to let me know you posted. Thank You So Much!

 

I did feel wetness on her fur this morning....that's what made me think I did the 'fur shot'. Her SS is now updated. Any comments are truly appreciated. I will be going to sleep soon....please EM me to let me know you posted. Thank You So Much!

 

I started to put Rumpelteazer's info and my questions on the PZI board.

See Ya There !!!!