As some of you may be aware, Nate has been having a rough go as of late, diagnosed with diabetes last week. He continued to eat less and less. I took him back to the vet yesterday and demanded Nate be tested for Pancreatitis, even though his initial blood work showed he did not have it. The vet said there is a more thorough, specific Pancreatitis test that they send to an outside lab, so we did that. Well, results came back today and he tested positive... While I hate that Buddy Boy is sick, I am glad we finally got an answer for why he wouldn't eat. He was given fluids yesterday and responded great! Happiest I have seen him in a couple weeks! We asked about home treatment and she basically said all we can do is give him anti-nausea meds and appetite stimulants. Other than that we need to keep bringing him back for fluids intravenously. I have spent a small fortune at this point and I simply can't afford to keep bringing him to the vet for fluids. Is there a home alternative to this? Do any of you give your kitties fluids intravenously at home? I've been reading many cats with Pancreatitis require pain meds. Should I request some for Nate? Are there any other medications I should ask my vet about? Do any of you have any suggestions for home/cost effective treatment? As always, thank you so much!
There are many members who have treated their cats with pancreatitis and treated at home. Perhaps also post your message in the Main Health forum to get more eyes on the issue, HERE Here is a link to the Primer on Pancreatitis: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/ I am very surprised that vet didn't give you pain meds, panc can be very painful.
I just reposted. Thank you. Yeah, I officially dislike this vet. I'm taking him elsewhere from now on. They rush me and I shouldn't have to demand tests and medications. They should be asking me/ prescribing!
I went back and did some re-reading on this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...l-barely-eating-what-now.211587/#post-2346866 You said you got the CBD oil and Djamila noted that she wouldn't use both the CBD oil and the bupe for pain. Be careful what meds and remedies you are using. Please consult with the experienced members, I know you want to help Nate feel better now, and it can be a bit overwhelming. If you would, please set up your signature so that Nate's info is available when you post: (light grey text under a post). Here's how: click on your name in the upper right corner of this page click on "signature" in the menu that drops down type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the time zone matters) Are you testing Nate's blood sugar? If you are set up the spreadsheet. Then we can all see it and look at it before offering advice: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/ If you aren't, you need to be, so that you can be sure it's safe to inject insulin and see how the insulin is affecting Nate. Extremely important! We can help you learn how. I know you have invested a lot of money in the last few days, but testing does not have to break the bank, and it could safeguard Nate's life.
Sorry I haven't updated my profile, between all the vet visits and work, this has been a crazy week. I haven't checked his levels yet, but I bought the meter, Ketone strips and lancets. I think I may have bought the wrong lancets because they don't poke out of the pen thing/aren't long enough. I work 6 days a week, but my Saturday evening/Sunday project is to get his testing and spreadsheet going!
I'm glad to hear that you will do the signature and spreadsheet tonight and begin testing. You don't have to use the lancing device, mine didn't work and I just free hand it with the lancets. Then I can see where the pointy end is going. It has been a crazy week for you, I don't mean to nag (although my DH seems to think I'm pretty good at it!) but in order for effective treatment, especially with the pancreatitis dx depends on all the basic components being in place. Let us know what we can do to help..testing videos and tips? A picture of the sweet spot (where you want the pointy end of the lancet to go)? Testing is a process of patience and practice, it's all new to both of you.
I gave sub q's at home for a couple years. Not hard if your cat is pretty chill. The treatment is fluids, cerenia for nausea and bupe for pain.
OK! I just created Nate's signature. I created and shared his spreadsheet too . I even figured out the lancet/meter and tested it on myself! A picture of the "sweet spot" would be great. I have studied and read about the chart and I believe I understand it. My first question is: When is the best time to do the first test? Should I do it before his next feeding/shot? Second question: How often do I test? The spreadsheet has a spot for every hour between shots. Is this only when doing Curves? Do I just test once every 12 hours, normally? Do I even need to test every day? I am excited to get the testing/spreadsheet going and get Nate back on track!
You will want an am preshot test before food or insulin and a pm preshot test before food and insulin. Then it's best to try to get at minimum 1 mid cycle test in. Every so often doing a curve is a good idea. That's a test every two hours for 12 hours. I usually test 4 times a day, more often in days off/weekends.
I'm so sorry that Nate has pancreatitis, but SO glad you got a definitive diagnosis! Sometimes we do have to just be tough with our vets and demand answers like that. I'm glad you did. I don't have any experience with pancreatitis, but I know Djamila gave some good info. Generally, as far as I know, you want bupe for a pain med. I'd ask the vet for some if they haven't give you any yet. Janet gave some good info above. The more tests you can get at first, the better. But remember that his numbers might be a bit higher right now because of the panc. I'm SO glad that Nate is HOME and you have a good idea of how to care for him. As for fluids, yes you can give them at home. If your vet wants you to bring him in, I'd tell them you'd rather give them at home and ask them to give you some info. There are plenty of folks here who have dealt with pancreatitis and can help you with the fluids aspect I'm sure. Please do keep asking questions! We're still here to help and things are going to get better now that you know what you're dealing with.
I just gave him his first PMPS test: 350. I know that is still high, so I am going to proceed with the feeding and shot. What is an acceptable level? At what number should I NOT give the shot?
Gave him the shot and tested him 3 hours later. Down to 192. Progress! I called my vet back earlier and asked about pain medication and she said she doesn't recommend that for Nate. I don't understand this, since everyone online is saying their cats with Pancreatitis take Bupe for pain. In the 24 hours since getting the fluids, his appetite is already decreasing and he doesn't seem as happy and energetic as last night. Is this from the pain? Could he need fluids already? Is there a better place to post about Panc? Still haven't mastered navigating this site.
When my Zimmy had pancratitis we definitly gave daily fluids at home. For about 7-10 days. If you're willing to do that please tell your vet so they can send you home with a bag. It's not harder than injections other than keeping the cat in one place for 5 minutes. They go in subqutaneously not in a vein, just like insulin. This is a great video in how Of your cat is crouching, nor moving, and not wanting to be touched, call and say that. Exaggerate if you need to so you can pick up the pain meds when you get the fluids. He's getting daily cerenia too, right?
I cannot imagine why your vet doesn't want to give you some bupe. In my state it's very tightly controlled since it's an opioid, so I can only get three days at a time, but pain management is a standard aspect of panc treatment in cats. I wonder if it would help to give your vet this article from IDEXX.
Well that's just ridiculous. My vet was reluctant to give me pain meds at first for my cats cystitis, but I explained my reasoning and he agreed to try it...and when I went back and told him how much it was helping, he wrote me a script for it and they just keep it in her file. I can call and say I want more and they'll have it ready for me in the drive through within the hour (yeah my vet has a drive through...it's awesome). I can only get 3 days at a time too, but I can get it when I need it. Have you looked for a new vet? I know you said you don't like your current one. As for not shooting, I wouldn't shoot under 200 for now. That's our advice for new folks, and new just means new to home testing without a lot of data built up yet.
I can’t comment on panc at all but I can say fluids at home is not hard. I did it for a while on one of my babies and it was much easier and less stressful on my girl and once I got used to it on me as well since i didn’t have to keep going to the vet. If your vet won’t encourage this then you definitely need a new bet. Thoughts and hugs are with you. I know the stress this can create. But breathe and know you are doing your best for him
As the others have pointed out, pain control is essential for pancreatitis. Buprenorphine is very good for that. Antinausea/vomiting meds like Cerenia or ondansetron are also very important if kitty isn't eating. Those come first. If they aren't enough, appetite stimulant meds are needed (mirtazapine or cyproheptadine). If there's diarrhea in the picture, add in metronidazole or tylosin. Fluids can be given subQ or add extra water to all wet food meals. Treatment is always aimed at managing symptoms until the flare is past.
I'll second this. I gave my old cat sub-q fluids for more than a year (he was 17 and had kidney issues). He was a surly old man (seriously surly: he sent one vet to the hospital! ), and it was still ridiculously easy.
Hello wonderful people! I called my vet again today and I got the Bupe for pain and the fluids for SubQ. I guess my first question is: When do I give them to him? He isn't hunching over, isn't vomiting, isn't really hiding and he likes being petted. Should I wait for some of these symptoms before I give him the Bupe and fluids? I would hate to make things worse by administering meds he doesn't need right now. He is eating, but I'm not sure it's enough. Right now he is eating Hill's Prescription Diet Urgent Care a/d. About half a can a day. Is that enough? I have continued to give him his anti-nausea (daily) and appetite stimulant (every 3 days), but a half a can (2 or 3 feedings) a day is as much as he will eat. I know this brand of wet food is high in Calories and Nutrients, so maybe half a can is enough? Can anyone with more experience with this weigh in? Thanks
Sounds to me he needs more food. Is there anything else you can try to encourage him to eat more? A Fancy Feast perhaps? Never met a cat who wouldn’t eat that... do you have the food chart that shows the carb content?
I would give the bupe even if not hunched over, at least for a couple of days. ... Cats are very good at hiding pain and it could be why he's not eating. My cat started eating about 15 min after his first dose of bupe, then took a long peaceful nap. Giving fluids is also a good idea. Just do the fluids whenever is convenient. I always did it when my partner could help and we distracted him with catnip.
I'm so glad you got the bupe! I know the AD is considered tasty by many cats, so it's good that you've got that...something that he'll eat on his own is a relief. That doesn't seem like enough food though...have you tried offering him food several times a day or do you leave it out so he can eat later? Any chance that tuna juice or bone broth or some sprinkled treats encourage him to eat more? I don't have good advice on the meds. I'm grateful to have never dealt with pancreatitis, but I do wish I could give more info! However, I remembered this Primer on Pancreatitis and linked it there for you. It might help.
Before you give the bupe...what dose did the vet give you? How much does your cat weigh? Are they in pre-drawn syringes? And did the vet tell you/show you how to give it (in the pocket of the cheek - not into the mouth)?
I have given him Fancy Feast and it has been a little hit and miss. I'm going to pick more up after work today and hopefully with his pain meds he will eat it up! I do not have that chart. Do you have a copy?
Ok, I am going to give him the Bupe tonight then. Hopefully he will eat more afterwards. Should I wait for certain symptoms before giving the fluids or should I just do it now? It can't hurt him, can it?
Perhaps @Djamila or @Kris & Teasel can provide a link to the food chart. I dont know how to access. Sorry
The dose is .3mg in a pre-drawn syringe that contains .2ml. Nate weighs 15 pounds at last weigh in last Friday. Could be slightly less now since he hasn't been eating a ton. No, the vet did not show me or tell me about the pocket of the cheek. I had my girlfriend pick up the meds since I was working. Can you explain that/show me that online?
I have been feeding him 2 or 3 times a day. I have not been leaving food out. He loves licking the tuna juice, but doesn't like eating the actual tuna much. While I have your attention, I was wondering if you would look at Nate's spreadsheet. His numbers have been pretty low in the mornings, so I haven't given him an AM shot for the last 2 days. Just one in the PM. Any thoughts? Thank you Rachel!
Okay, that dose sounds fine on the bupe (given what you've said about the vet, I just wanted to make sure the dose was safe ). I'm assuming you were given oral bupe and not injectable, right? (the syringe does not have a needle?) Assuming it's oral bupe: to administer, you want to pull down and back a little on the cheek/back part of the lips (not sure how to really explain that...), and squeeze the bupe into the cheek pouch (between the teeth and the cheek) if you can, instead of just into his mouth. That being said, if it ends up in his mouth, don't stress. It doesn't absorb quite as well, but certainly doesn't hurt anything. If the syringe does have a needle, then ignore all of that and call your vet for directions. Food: if you don't have other pets that would steal it, it's fine to leave food out. He may eat more if he has access to it throughout the day. Dose: interesting numbers! I'm wondering if that 1u might be too much. Could you get a test later tonight? If you could possibly get one sometime between +4 and +6 or so, that would be ideal. I don't want you to be too sleep deprived though, so if that doesn't work, just the latest test you can before you go to bed. Ideally you want to be able to give two equal shots/day. Right now, the AM number is too low (good job skipping those shots!), but then by PMPS he's pretty high. Lowering the PM dose may help, but I'd like to see a test during the PM cycle first to be sure.
Yes, oral Bupe, no needle. I definitely did my best to get it in "the pocket". It's really hard to get a +6 test during the week, but I will definitely do that Saturday and Sunday. When you say the AM number is too low; I thought that was a good thing? Did you just mean too low to shoot? It would be better to lower his PM dose so his AM number is higher, so I can shoot in the AM? Nate is still not eating as much as I'd like. Between half a can and 3/4 a can per day. Should I proceed with his SubQ fluids? I know when the vet gave him. Fluids last Friday he came home and ate a lot.
Yes, too low to shoot. Sorry about the lack of clarity on that! Blue numbers in general area great. As for the weekend - it would be great to get some mid-cycle tests in. Just to be clear - the nadir isn't necessarily at +6. Most cats will hit nadir (the lowest point in the cycle) somewhere between +4 and +7. So scattering tests around can help to build the clearest picture over time. And occasionally doing a curve (testing every 2 hours for twelve hours) helps to figure out when Nate is likely to be at his lowest point. And some cats can really vary. For example, my cat hits nadir around +5 or +6 in the AM cycle, and around +2 or +3 in the PM cycle. Cats are so weird. And regarding fluids, I really don't know a lot about those, so I'll tag @JanetNJ to comment on that part.
