Near hypo event confused on food/feeding

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by bbwyo, May 27, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. bbwyo

    bbwyo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Night before last Kitty had a big drop in a couple of hours..covered in previous post. I was somewhat confused by the information on feeding and food. The hypo instructions say sugary syrupy spikes system faster but doesn't last as long. Food with HC keeps bg elevated longer "so it's a better food to give during a hypo event". I assume they mean after getting the first kick of the sugar in to stop the drop. All this makes sense but it leads me to have additional questions on normal feeding routines/food.

    1.What kind of food hits the system fastest? Wet LC? or just wet in general? or is dry HC the same except that a cat has to chew it up? It seems like I read somewhere that that dry food took longer to break down no matter what the carb content is?

    This is why the "gravy" from MC gravy style food is faster to get into the system? but is shorter in duration. OK

    2. Other than the hydration issue why would LC/NC canned or wet food be any better or different than LC/NC dry food? If wet hits the system faster and the body uses it up faster it means more feedings per day and also more fluctuations? BUT this is presumed to be more beneficial to a cat because it mimics the natural habits of a cat? Right?

    3. If I'm only giving vetsulin 1x daily wouldn't it make sense to feed something that entered the body slower w/more carbs? Feeding the W/D early in the day when giving shot? or later in the day to carry through the last 12 hours with no insulin? My confusion comes from the dry food then having more carbs but if it's breaking down slower aren't those carbs entering system more evenly and slower? All of this assuming the cat is getting enough hydration aside from food.

    This seems to fit with my Vet's reasoning for using the HC dry w/d. The cat can eat more and feel full for longer and because the carbs are entering system slower and she gets a more even source of energy thru the day? This may not be as "natural" but if the cat's body is functioning this way does it make a difference? As long as the HC food also has HP.

    Some of my confusion I think comes from all the diets I have been on and knowing how sugar/carbs affect me and assuming HP works in a cat the same as it does a human?

    Sorry to be so anal (confused) about all this. There is so much to absorb and adjust to figure out the best way to have my girl happy and healthy. Wish they could figure out how to turn the clock back.
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    1.What kind of food hits the system fastest? Wet LC? or just wet in general? or is dry HC the same except that a cat has to chew it up? It seems like I read somewhere that that dry food took longer to break down no matter what the carb content is?
    Wet food of any carb load is going to get into the bloodstream faster than dry food will. Dry food takes more breaking down by the cat to get the necessary nutrients out of it. Dry food will also fill the cat up faster so if you are trying to beat back a low BG, it's best to use wet food so as not to get kitty filled up and unable/unwilling to eat if they need to.

    This is why the "gravy" from MC gravy style food is faster to get into the system? but is shorter in duration. OK
    The gravy in any food has carbs. Since most carbs break down readily and are quick to enter the system they cause a surge in BG but don't last long. Protein takes longer to break down but the effect on BG is more gradual and prolonged.

    2. Other than the hydration issue why would LC/NC canned or wet food be any better or different than LC/NC dry food? If wet hits the system faster and the body uses it up faster it means more feedings per day and also more fluctuations? BUT this is presumed to be more beneficial to a cat because it mimics the natural habits of a cat? Right?
    Yes wet food does more closely mimic the normal eating habits of our felines who in the wild would not generally gorge on a big meal and certainly not a lot of carbs at any given time. Most cats eating dry food, graze so they too are getting surges and fluctuations in their blood sugar. With most dry food being so much higher in carbs, dry food may last longer but can also cause bigger surges in BG that last longer.

    3. If I'm only giving vetsulin 1x daily wouldn't it make sense to feed something that entered the body slower w/more carbs? Feeding the W/D early in the day when giving shot? or later in the day to carry through the last 12 hours with no insulin? My confusion comes from the dry food then having more carbs but if it's breaking down slower aren't those carbs entering system more evenly and slower? All of this assuming the cat is getting enough hydration aside from food.
    It is unusual to use any insulin once daily in a cat because they metabolize it quickly and Vetsulin doesn't last a full 12 hours in a lot of cats. The dry food may enter the system slower and last longer but it's not a slow even process. It's a bigger surge and a slower drop off than with wet food.

    This seems to fit with my Vet's reasoning for using the HC dry w/d. The cat can eat more and feel full for longer and because the carbs are entering system slower and she gets a more even source of energy thru the day? This may not be as "natural" but if the cat's body is functioning this way does it make a difference? As long as the HC food also has HP.
    Dry food can be HP but it is also very likely extremely calorie dense. With a diabetic, calorie/weight control is of paramount importance so kitty shouldn't be eating more than they would calorie wise on a wet diet.

    Some of my confusion I think comes from all the diets I have been on and knowing how sugar/carbs affect me and assuming HP works in a cat the same as it does a human?
    A cat is a carnivore and their metabolism is much faster than humans who are omnivores so I don't think you can make an apple to apple comparison in the digestion and effect of carbs. Like humans though, some cats are more carb sensitive than others. Some cats do great on extremely low carbs and others do better with a bit higher carb load.

    In the big scheme of things, like everything else in this dance, getting to know how your own cat responds to different diets is key to knowing how to deal with their diabetes. My cat who is a high dose kitty and refused to eat ANY wet food until a short while ago is not particularly carb sensitive (insulin needs didn't seem to change when lower carb dry food was provided) but the switch from dry to wet food has resulted in a considerable reduction in her insulin requirement and I am still working on finding the right dose to get and keep her BG in a good range.

    Hope this helps. You are not being anal....you are trying to understand a very confusing and confounding subject. Experimenting with slightly different carb foods and testing will give you a better idea of how Kitty responds.
     
    AlphaCat likes this.
  3. bbwyo

    bbwyo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    Not sure best way to do this but : in response to your response to#1.
    I've been feeding 1/3 ff Pure which is Hi Pr 75% and zero carb.. with 1 can ff classic and the 1/3 c. w/d. I'm wondering if the very high protein level in the pure is part of the problem?:
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I wouldn't call the high protein a problem but if you are referring to that low BG this morning, it could very well be a contributing factor. :) Not fun for you but shows you how different foods effect BG.
     
  5. bbwyo

    bbwyo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    this wasn't a change Ive been feeding this combo for the past month. only difference is reducing w/d slightly. Doing this for better calorie control. She was overweight then underweight pretty good right now. How would you think the HP would contribute?
     
  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    If you reduced the WD that would reduce the carb load. Higher protein/lower carbs = lower BG. I didn't know you were feeding the Pure for the past month so the change in BG could be due to the reduction of the WD portions. It could also be that Kitty's pancreas is starting to sputter back into action. Unfortunately, there is no definite answer but less high carb dry food will definitely help.
     
    Yong likes this.
  7. bbwyo

    bbwyo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2017
    I like the sound of that. So you are familiar with Pure? I haven't read much about it here and was questioning the HP/ZC. Guess I was a little suspicious of zero carbs so thought the balance of Pure/FF/WD would be a better balance. From what I can see the Pure has a much higher protein % than most of the other cat foods? I had tried the Nature's Variety Instinct/Limited ingredients Turkey but the calories were higher. When switching over from all dry she had some diarrhea issues but they seem to have cleared up with pumpkin. Still looking for solution. I haven't tested her since we came in from outside but she seems to be happily grooming in her bed so will do another test before feeding around 6. Thanks for all the info. I hope you have time to enjoy the weekend.
     
  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    You are so welcome. I'm in Canada so no holiday here! We had our long weekend last week so I am happy to take up a bit of the slack for our US friends who deserve a nice long weekend! :)

    ETA until you mentioned it I had not heard of the FF Pure. Checked it out on the web and it looks like it's just protein, minerals and vitamins. I must see if it's available here although my fusspot won't touch anything that's PURE protein. Seems to like the mystery meat of by-products! My crew are all cheap dates!
     
  9. babyBoo

    babyBoo Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    I'm not sure about the specific insulin your using, I'm a lantus user. I doubt the once a day shot can be as effective as two a day. Also with those two quick drops my suggestion is to shoot no more than 0.25 for at least 3 or 4 days and I would consider shooting twice a day. I think you went once a day in the morning thinking the cat may be producing insulin at night and not the morning, but I think this morning throws that theory out the window.

    Considering your still feeding a significant amount of dry, I wouldn't be surprised that once you went with only low carb your cat might not need insulin. I wouldn't shoot any more than 0.25 tomorrow though, and would go twice a day as I don't think the once a day has any benefits if the dives happen both cycles.
     
  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    @babyBoo No worries. Bev contacted her vet who suggested she withhold insulin for a couple of days. There is another thread about this HERE. :)
     
    babyBoo likes this.
  11. babyBoo

    babyBoo Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    You could try transitioning from the high carb dry by using medium carb wet such as the friskies chunks chicken in gravy or the fancy feast grilled turkey feast in gravy. Usually its used to boost the bg levels but in your case it should help lower it since its being exchanged from a high carb food.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page