? Need Responses Please! Still All Over The Place

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by MHorne, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Hello! Been awhile since I've posted as we have been consistently testing and adjusting as needed. I have gotten different food options including some kitten food to try and help with weight gain. He is still just a bag of bones at this point. He is now down to 1 unit and has been pretty consistently high since about 11/22. I want to be sure that staying at these high numbers is okay, or if we should increase dosage back to 1.25? He dipped down to 77 on that dosage, so we moved him down to 1 unit.
    My main question right now is that both me and husband are going out of town this upcoming week, Wednesday to Friday. Bear will have 24hr care and someone to give him his insulin, however he will not be able to be tested these days. If perhaps his dosage should be increased, maybe it's best to wait until we return home?
    Advice and guidance is appreciated. :) Thank you.
     
  2. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    This is not dosing advice. Severe and continuing weight loss can be a major issue, it took our last sugar cat and I'm dealing with it right now with another cat. In the short term I would rather see weight gain in my own cats and deal with moderately high numbers later. Every cat is different!
    I've been feeding Andy (not diabetic) Royal Canin Development Kitten and he's put on over a pound in two weeks.
    Why Andy lost weight
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/andy-back-home.221709/
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
    Reason for edit: forgot link
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  3. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    We are making sure to feed him whenever he asks or if he finishes a can, we give him another one. He's at about 3-4 cans a day. I absolutely agree that higher numbers are secondary (at this point) to weight gain. Problem is that he isn't gaining anything. Thanks for the Royal Canin tip, I can get some for him to try out.
     
  4. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    I'm working through a migraine and can't find the magnifying glass so I don't know what the carb count is. It's very rich food so he might yak some up at first.
     
  5. Kate & Toby

    Kate & Toby Member

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    Aug 23, 2019
    Hey, glad you've come here for advice. I'm in no way an expert, and hopefully Linda or one of the other prozinc experts will be along soon. But I wondered, has Bear ever had DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). Are you testing him for ketones at all? This is very important when cats stay in high numbers for a long time.
    I think it was me that recommended the kitten food to you a while back, glad you got some but sorry to hear its not helping, unfortunately the weight will only really go on when the glucose levels come down, so dont give up yet. Xx
     
  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Check the calories in the food you are giving. You want something higher calories, but lower carb. I liked raw food, because it was more calories per volume. My girl didn’t feel as full but was still getting the same calories in.
     
  7. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    We are not. I'm not even sure how to do that at home, it has only ever been done at the Vet's office.
     
  8. Kate & Toby

    Kate & Toby Member

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    Aug 23, 2019
    Ok, I think you should. It's super easy and just involves a test strip dipped in his wee. If he uses a litter tray you can try and pop the stick under him mid flow, or else you can get a "cat only " ladle to catch a wee, or some people lay cling film over the litter so the wee pools.
    You need to get ketostix, which are available very cheaply in amazon, or from a pharmacy. You just compare the colour of the strip against the packet. As Bear hasnt had DKA before his chances are less, but with consistently high numbers I would definitely be testing.
     
  9. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Well between the 2 brands they range in calories from 92-111. All low carb. The kitten food is still semi-new to him and I'm hopeful the weight will start to stick. I know that everyone keeps saying that once his levels come down the weight will pack on, but he may die before that happens! So scary. That's why we're feeding him constantly.
     
  10. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Okay, so what do we do if he has high ketones? Is it an 'at home' fix or a vet visit?
     
  11. Kate & Toby

    Kate & Toby Member

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    Aug 23, 2019
    Ketones dont always mean ketoacidosis will develop, but at this stage it's just important to know early on if he is getting ketones as it can be very serious and they can go down hill quite quickly. I cant reccomend testing enough.
     
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  12. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Anything above trace ketones means a visit to the vet. Ketones can increase really quickly.
     
  13. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I am going to tag @MrWorfMen's Mom to help you with the dosing while you are away.
    Has anyone suggested getting some a/d Hills from the vet. It's a recovery food that is higher on calories.
    It can be hard for cats to put on weight when they are in higher numbers.
    Has he been checked by the vet to see if there is any other reason he may be loosing weight?
     
  14. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Thank you! To tag someone is it just @theirname? And he was on Hills M/D for a long time and then refused to eat it. Any other Hills we have tried since then is a fail. He has had every exam and test done except for an ultrasound and he passes with flying colors every time.
     
  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    It does look like Bear needs a little increase but he is still seeing some blues on the 1u dose which makes me wonder if he could be dipping any lower at times you just haven't caught.

    With you going away for a few days and no testing during that time, it might be best to keep the dose at 1u while away to avoid any surprises and also to make it easier on your sitter to draw up the dose accurately.

    In the meantime, till you leave, if you want to increase to 1.25u and also if possible, grab some tests earlier and later in the cycles to see if Bear is perhaps dropping early and then scurrying back up. If you can get some tests in the +2 to +4 point in the daytime and at night, it might shed some light on what's going on. Also if you happen to get up early before the AM shot time, a test at the back end of the night cycle can be telling too given the odd AMPS has been yellow.

    I'd definitely check for ketones before you leave and ask your sitter if they can check too. Sometimes our kitties don't eat as well when we're away so keeping tabs on his food intake and ketones is vital.
     
  16. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Yes when you tag someone its a space after your last word and then @then their name
     
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  17. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Just as an update; I got Bear this food and he is eating it pretty decently. We are on week 2 of it but his numbers are still pretty erratic so I'm not sure he has gained any weight.:(
     
  18. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Hi @MrWorfMen's Mom, needing your help again. We haven't had luck successfully testing ketones but we did get Pretty Litter which is the color changing litter to help us out in the mean time. Good news is that Bears urine is coming back a normal color indicating he should be doing okay in that department. Could you please take a look at his spreadsheet? It seems like we are slowly getting better numbers with the 1.25 dosage, but he is still getting real high at times and I understand it could be the bounce. Is there a "usual" timeframe it takes most cats to get more regulated? Why can't we fix this?! I know there are so many factors, it's just so hard. Bear has just lost all of his personality, he never has energy, he eats and sleeps and is too weak to do anything else. I just want to know if there is still hope because seeing him go through this and knowing that he doesn't ever seem to feel good...is it time to discuss letting him pass on? When is too far gone to get healthy again? Trying not to be negative and be a downer, we just want whats best for him and it's been months and months with no avail. Thank you in advance for your advice:)
     
  19. Kate & Toby

    Kate & Toby Member

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    Aug 23, 2019
    Hey, well done on sorting his food, and glad to hear he is eating well, it takes time for them to gain weight, so keep doing what you are doing. Great news about ketones too.

    I am sure Linda will be along soon to give you some help with the bouncing, and any dose changes she might recommend. I just wanted to say that, try not to be too hard on yourself, you are doing brilliantly, unfortunately becoming regulated is not a quick fix, its a fine art and one we all aspire to, but only a few get there. I have come to the more realistic expectation that I am happy if, I avoid Toby going too low (Hypo), he remains ketone free, he is spending part of the day in reasonable numbers and he is having a good quality of life. Some people might disagree with this and maintain that remission and tight control is the only measure of "Success", but I have learnt that our kitties don't always follow the rule book and its really not as easy as "Get them on the right diet, get them on insulin and boom you have a regulated diabetic cat"...hahah...if only!! I am basically saying that you have already taken a huge step in the right direction, you are making progress and give it some more time. Bear will be feeling better already, even if only for part of the day, you are doing your absolute best for him, hang on in there, baby steps and you will get there.

    Hugs to you and your ginger boy xx
     
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  20. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Thank you so much for your encouraging words!
     
  21. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    You need to reduce the dose immediately. You are getting numbers below safe levels (in the 50s) and the dose should have been reduced when those readings occurred. I'm also concerned because one of those readings occurred right at pre-shot making me wonder if Bear dropped even lower over the preceding night.

    I'd immediately reduce the dose to 0.75u. You've missed more than 2 reductions but the others were not drops to dangerous numbers. If you get a reading under 90, it's time to reduce by 0.25u to avoid any drops to unsafe levels. Bear likely is feeling badly because his BG is dropping and then he is bouncing. Hold the dose for 6 cycles provided pre-shots are shootable (over 225 to 250)

    A reading of 68 is your warning that Bear's BG is dropping too low and you need to intervene to bring BG up with food. Any time you get a number below 68, you need to retest until BG is up in safe range and staying there without any food influence.
     
  22. MHorne

    MHorne Member

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    Nov 6, 2019
    Understood. We didn’t reduce him with mindset that most every reading he is high numbers, and maybe that day was just a “bad” day. We will stick to reducing by .25 if he is below 90.
    Thank you
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    You don't dose insulin based on how high numbers are....you dose based on how low a dose drops BG. High numbers are not good long term but short term they aren't a problem. Low numbers on the other hand can be dangerous or fatal. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment.
     

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