Neuropathy B12 injections

I have a few questions regarding neuropathy and B12 injections. Our boy, Roops has it and has been prescribed B12 mcg 0.5 once a month. We believe this is not a high enough dose. We believe he needs injections more frequently. What is the normal dose for a cat of Roops size. (about 17 pounds)

Unfortunately the vet's office only gave us 12 needles. We are running low. Are these special needles, and intended primarily for pets/cats.

When we questioned the vet about what first appeared as favoring or limping on one side, they could not find anything wrong. They suggested his foot might be inflamed. Finally after returning several weeks later (blood curve tests) we asked about neuropathy. The vet confirmed our suspicions and gave him a shot of B12 each visit. We seen improvements almost immediately. Unfortunately not all vets believe in B12.

We also mentioned or asked if some cat's had worse days (neuropathy) than others. Do they have good days and bad days. The vet did not know, nor did the vet tech. but it seems to be the case with Roops.

Since cats can't talk I would like to know if they have pain with this condition, or weakness, and numbness. Does anyone know? I know people can have these symptoms but don't know about cats. I have included a photo of the B12 needles that we were given. we have 2 left.

Are there any other recommendations or suggestions we have not heard of. Crazy thought but we also wondered if damp weather or rain might make this condition worse.

 

I found this,

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...europathy-weak-back-legs.178252/#post-2172382

Methyl B 12 is what is recommended, it is not a shot. I am tagging another member that I recall has some experience with treating neuropathy, she may have some more input than I can provide.

@Lisa and Witn (GA) I think you are familiar with using this for neuropathy? I am trying to help new member get some answers. She has been trying since last week Can you give any more info? They are in Canada, not sure of availability there? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am not knowledgeable about neuropathy so I am trying to find someone with more experience with neuropathy.

Thanks!

 

B12 can be either Cyanocobalamin or Methylcobalamin. It is the Methylcobalamin type that works for neuropathy. When buying Methyl B12 you want to make sure it does not have Xylitol in it. A lot of the members give their cats Zobaline.

I have never give injectable methyl B12. Generally the B12 you get from the vet is Cyanocobalamin and that does not work for neuropathy. I think that any type of injectable will require a prescription. If you do get a prescription, make sure that it is for Methylcobalamin and not written as just B12. For a syringe I believe that you can use the same type you use for insulin.

The Methyl B12 and getting the glucose levels under control will help reverse the neuropathy. Depending on how severe it is, it may take weeks or months before the symptoms are gone. When I adopted Spot her neuropathy was so bad she could barely walk. Within a few weeks of being on insulin and Methyl B12 I saw significant improvement. It took several months before all of the neuropathy was gone.

Home testing is also vital. That is the only way you can tell how well the insulin dose is working. It takes the combination of both glucose levels being controlled and the methyl B12 to reverse neuropathy.

 

You should try the Zobaline for cats....it's tasteless and the pills crush easily to add to food.

It's available on Amazon or from Lifelink

 

I also noticed in Roops signature that you are giving 5 units of insulin. That is a very high dose unless there are other medical issues going on. Most cats only need 1-2 units. Plus you are feeding dry food. Almost all dry food is high in carbs. We recommend a low carb canned food diet. However, do not switch to a canned food diet unless you are lowering the dose significantly. By switching diet can lower glucose readings by 100 or more. If you do not lower the dose also, there is a great risk of your cat becoming hypoglycemic.

My suggestion is you lower the dose down to 1 unit and switch to canned food. Pate flavors are usually lower in carbs than anything with gravy. Stay at 1 unit for at least a week before deciding if an increase is needed. If you do need to raise the dose, only do it by 1/2 unit. Stay at the new dose for another week before increasing it again. The goal is to find the optimal dose to keep the glucose levels under control.

 

Roops is going through a phrase now. Turning his nose up to wet cat food. I offered him a can of Friskies Mariner's Catch pate yesterday morning. I know not the most desirable but he's been turning his nose up to wet cat food for a few days. Doesn't even express an interest in Friskies Turkey with Gravy. That was always the most favored by both cats. Last night he began to express interest again. He is eating it. Yeah. We have tried Fancy Feast but he was not interested. I can't tell you how many cans of cat food I've binned. We have a few cans of Fancy Feast pate and will try again. Perhaps nuking it for a few seconds would make it more interesting.

I do believe he is better than he was at least blood sugar wise. He was at the vet's office on three different occasions for blood curves. Since his insulin was started we have begun to see some positive changes. When we first took him to the vet he was quite sickly. I feared the worst. I think we all did. When he went to the litter box he voided a lot. A steady stream. I couldn't hear it but the rest of the family could. And it smelled of ammonia. He was tested for ketones at the vets. He was okay. In the past we used non clumping. Since being diagnosed we are using clumping. We have 3 litter boxes. I try to remove clumps once or twice a day and monitor the clumps etc. Roop's tinkle spots are becoming smaller but not as small as dear Ollie's. Ollie has never had the appetite Roops did, nor has he ever drank as he did.

Prior to being diagnosed Roops was also spending a lot of time in the bathtub. Laying there, drinking from the tap, or just watching it, and often sleeping. It bothered us. He does not spend near the amount of time in the tub that he did. Usually first thing in the morning. But it still bothers us. We are not sure if he likes the tub because it is cool or not. Feels good on his bones? We are wondering if it does not bring him some comfort.

Last night was not so good for Roops or so it seems. He was wandering a lot, going up and down the stairs. He kept my younger daughter awake, and woke me sometime after 4 this morning. My alarm clock. He was very happy, and purring away. His fur is also soft again, and he is not as sickly looking. Hope to weigh him soon. Keep tabs on that.

Sharing a pic of his B12 bottle. I have tried to look it up. I think it is Methylcobalamin but not sure. We keep the bottle in the fridge with his insulin. He is on a low dose. Given once a month. My older daughter gives it about once a week. We think he needs a higher dose.

 

If the manufacturer label is on the bottle, it shipped tell you the type on it.

 

What kind of insulin do you administer to your cat? Are all insulins the same? And are all measurements the same. I do not know just asking. We live in Ontario, and use the metric system. But I am familiar with the Imperial system. Taught in that.

I think Rupie's blood sugar was quite high when we first took him to the vet. I think 33. We thankfully asked for copies of all his chart/info each time we took him to the vet. We wanted to keep track of him ourselves. Although we do not test his blood sugar before administering his insulin, we do observe him. I watch him like a hawk. As I did my own children. One unit of Prozinc would not be enough for him. I notice changes in him when he is given too low of a dose, or a dose missed. Which is rare. He is a big cat. The vet tech recommended he lose a few pounds. We weigh him at home by holding him while standing on the scales. Not the best way but as good as those baby things they have at the vet's. A jiggly moving cat does not produce accurate results either.

 

Unfortunately it is covered up with a label from the vet's office. I don't want to pick it off. I think I will call them, or write them, and simply ask. I would take it to our local pharmacy who we have found more helpful than the vet office ...but it needs to be kept cool. Perhaps they could tell from the photo. It does say B12 5000 mcg

 

btw thank you for your recommendations and help.

 

Most likely it is Cyanocobalamin. Ask the pharmacy if they carry or can order the Methylcobalamin. Or you can give him the Zobaline instead. You can order it from Amazon

None of my cats are diabetic. In the past I have had 4 diabetic cats, 2 we're already diabetic when I adopted them With most of them, they were on Lantus,. I have also used BCP PZI. ProZinc is also a good insulin for cats, so I don't think you should change it.

You should consider learning to home test. That is really the only accurate way that you can tell how well the insulin is working. One of the issues with having the testing done at the vet's office is that stress will cause a cat's glucose level to rise significantly. So you're really not getting accurate readings there. We can use any human meter to test unless you want to use a pet glucose meter. The biggest advantage of using a human meter, is that it is cheaper to use are the struts are more readily available. Unfortunately with this trips for the pet meter, they're more expensive and you have to order them online or through your vet.

Look under the health link section and you will find more information about home testing. The reason we stress that home testing is needed is that a cats insulin requirements can change from dose to dose. Before you give an injection you want to make sure that the glucose levels are not too low. Otherwise your cat could become hypoglycemic my receiving too much insulin. Hypoglycemia can be very dangerous or even deadly for a cat.

 

I think it's Cyanocobalamin we have. We peeled the label off or tried to. Leaving now but will be checking it out further when I return. Thank you for your help.

 

Just returned. It's intended for horses. Why do vets prescribe a med that is not useful. I will be looking for Methylcobalamin. My daughter prefers the injectable. Wants me to listen. Not so good at taking pills or guaranteeing he will eat the pate. Just feel sick about this.

 

Hi there,

I know on the intro forum I sent you a link about food. I just looked at it and it was an awful lot of info, sorry.

Below is link to just the food chart we use to find low carb wet food so you don’t have to wade through what I sent earlier to find it.. I know Rupie can’t have fish. Can you try some of the Friskies pates (page 20) since it sounds like he likes the Friskies brand? If you add a little water and stir up well it makes a thick soup, that is the only way my cat will eat the canned and she loves her meat “soup.” I take about 1/2 a small can and add a couple spoons of water and mix well. That also gets more water into the kitty which is good for them.

Just remember it is very important like Lisa mentioned that his insulin be reduced if you are switching the food. His sugars will drop considerably with the food change. It really is better for the cat if you can get him on lower carb wet rather than just give more insulin to counteract the high carb dry.

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Always look at the 3rd column, that is carb content, you want it under 10%, and preferably less than that. Most of Friskies Pates on page 20 are 5% carb which is great if he will eat Friskies. The Fancy Feast pates are even lower carb, but if he prefers Friskies pates those are great too!

Now you will see some foods on that list that are high carb such as the ones with gravy. That does not mean they are meant to be fed to diabetic cats, more to show which ones to stay away from!

The only time it is good to have a couple of cans of high carb wet such as gravy type is for if the cat has a hypoglycemic episode and they need sugar fast. Then keep a high carb on hand, which you likely have some of those already, just mark them as high carb on lid or label so someone does not accidentally feed Roops that as regular food.

 

The B12 you have is useful, just not for neuropathy. It still helps build up the cats system and increases energy. A lot of vets do not realize there are different types of B12. Methyl B12 is a natural type where the other one is synthetic.

 

Thank you for the help. I feel quite sick about it. Especially knowing it was intended for horses. I will be talking to my oldest daughter. At work now. She wanted the kind that you inject but I think the Zobaline? a better option. We do want our Baby to get better. I'm going to work harder at learning to take his blood sugar. He may be overdosed. I am seriously considering using the lancet/s. We still have some of the Alphatrak? left but am thinking of switching over to human kind eventually. Pet lancets/glucose sticks about 2x the cost of people kind. We did ask about using the monitor we have here but the vet said 'no'. A pic of baby this morning after some nip.

 

Thank you once again for all your helpful information. I tried to trim off a portion of the excess quote (above). I hope that's okay.
I finally noticed on the link you sent some of the food Rupert will eat, when he is not being snoopy. I have looked in the past but didn't see brands/flavors/kinds we can get up here. I think it's on page 21. Friskies Classic Pate. He has eaten Salmon in the past, and enjoys it. 3 carbs. He has also enjoyed Mariner's Catch. I have several in the cupboard. I think it is 6 carbs. He has also eaten Whitefish and tuna but I want to stay away from that. The last time he ate it, he ended up loose as a goose. Not sure if it was the cat food, or medication/insulin he was taking but afraid to give it to him again.

I will look for some of the other brands or flavors recommended. Is there a number of carbs that should be consumed each meal for a cat as with diabetes in people? Rupie as a rule will eat both dry kibble and wet. Is there a better 'treat' to give them. He likes Temptations and Party Mix. I want to avoid giving him treats.

 

at least for cats, lancets are lancets, they don't expire, the main differences are what gauge they are -- and to a certain extent how sharp they are
(if you use a pen device to hold the lancet, it does make a difference, you need to use the same brand/type; I use the lancet by itself)

I'm using "human" lancets dated 1998, 28 gauge I think, bought by hubby when he was testing himself when first diagnosed with type 2

before I run out of these, in a couple of weeks or less, I'm transitioning to some of the other ones, 30 gauge, to see if they produce a good droplet with less annoyance for cat -- human doctor prescribed for hubby, OneTouch brand, and he never used them -- which also means I still have those three meters from the starting kits; test strips expired long ago, and those meters require a larger test sample than I can get from Catcat

 

Dear CandyH
Thank you for your help. I have the same glucose monitor OneTouch and lancets. 30 gauge. But I do not have any glucose strips left. I do need to test my blood sugar anymore so did not bother to refill script. I am wondering if I can use a human lancet to prick his ear, and use the Alpha Trak monitor and strips.

 

as for treats, Catcat is going bonkers for bonito curls/flakes, bought at an Oriental food market -- it's smoked fish and nothing else, no carbs

if Roops will eat food that is based on chicken, turkey, beef, it's helpful, there have been concerns about cats who eat a lot of tuna, and some get addicted to it and will eat nothing else --

not sure what they put in Temptations but those too seem to be addictive, my stepson's cat wants to eat nothing else -- but read the ingredients, corn rice wheat flour, all carbs, byproducts who knows what they might be -- not what you want for a diabetic cat

 

Even though the B12 you have may be marketed for horses, most likely is also sold under different packaging for cats and dogs. (People too). Many medications can be used for multiple species. A lot of human medications are also used for pets. A great example is insulin. With the exception of ProZinc and PZI, all of the other insulins you will see on this site are originally prescribed for people.

 

Your vet's response is not surprising. We hear that a lot. However you are responsible for the daily care of your cat and you do not need your vet's permission to home test or even adjust the dose. Look at it this way, if this was your child, would you give him insulin without knowing he needs it and it is safe to give it to him?

Many of us have shown our vets that we know what we are doing and that it is working. There is a spreadsheet available to keep track of his glucose readings. By testing and recording the results on it, you have all of the data to give to your vet. Plus it helps us give recommendations when you have questions.

 

Human lancets are exactly the same as pet lancets, just less money

 

absolutely -- lancets are lancets, and I found it easy to learn how to prick doing it freehand, some cats, and Catcat is one, don't like the noise of a lancet pen

actually he doesn't like anything near his ears other than when I scritch him -- but he's learning to put up with it to get treats, he still growls and struggles but no longer fights me as hard as he did for a few days

lancets are cheap at the pharmacy / chemist -- to begin with, you might get some that are 26 or 28 gauge, until his ears grow more capillaries -- cat ears are thin so you want a prick that's larger around, not deep which is more the human experience

OneTouch strips are on the expensive side for human meters, not sure how they compare in price to the Alphatrak -- there are alternate strips which will work in an Alphatrak -- Freestyle Lite or Freestyle Insulinx -- check out to see if you can get a deal with a free Freestyle Lite if you buy the strips for it, then you'd have a backup; since I'm not quite Canadian (do own a timeshare week in Whistler), I don't know availability, but lots of Canadians on the board can chime in

 

That is incomplete. mcg is micrograms. It is is not clear if the concentration is 5000 mcg per ml or per 30 ml.
A standard concentration of the cyan is 1000 mcg/ml and a dose of 0.25 ml.
What color is the B12? I know the cyan is red.
You can use insulin syringes. Each unit on a U100 syringe is 0.01 ml

 

We will begin testing his blood more often. I have 2 other adult children in this house who can learn and help. But I am doubtful we will return to the same vet's office for several reasons. Thankfully there is another nearby. btw is it common to cut their nails during blood curves, or when you take them up for a blood curve testing. They did not advise us that they did this, or intended to. We noticed it the next day. They asked to trim my other cat's nails years ago when he was being neutered. I said, 'No, thank you.' but they did it anyway. I don't like anyone that doesn't follow or listen to my wishes. My cats are my babies fur or not. Clipping Roop's nails when he was already under stress - not a good thing. No wonder he was hissing at them.

 

I am not certain of the colour. The bottle itself is brown. I cannot tell what colour it is through the bottle. My daughter administers the dose. I have never seen what colour it is in the syringe/needle.

 

NO....and it's cruel too!! If you cut a cat's nails so short that they bleed, it also causes them a great deal of pain!!

Most of us test along the edge of the ear....there are very few pain receptors there so most cats accept it pretty easily....especially if they get a special treat for letting you do it! Once they get used to you "fooling" with their ears, a lot of them will actually come running when you get the testing supplies out (because they want their special treat!)


Plain old chicken, freeze dried chicken (or any other protein source) are good treats for a diabetic cat

 

as far as I know, it's not standard vet practice -- I can think of several scenarios where they might anyway -- do you ever clip his nails at home? not short, of course, but when they get to crescent-moon length and start snagging on carpet, furniture, towels, or people? mine complain when their nails are too long, it gets uncomfortable for them to walk

I've accustomed my cats to enduring this, since they were kittens or since I adopted them, I find that the implements usually sold for claw clipping don't do a quick smooth shear, so I use wire clippers from the hardware store, the kind you might use to make jewelry -- that blunts the claws slightly yet cat has plenty of claw to climb trees, defend self -- front claws only of course -- human nail clippers don't do the job cleanly either

could it be that your mild mannered cat became aggressive through fear or pain, and lashed out? if so, they might have done a minimal clip to protect their employees

 

I can understand if they trim the nails to remove the sharp tips, but if they are cutting them to the quick, they should not be doing that. I have to keep my cats nails trimmed. Some of them automatically extend their nails when they reach for me. Even though I know they are not trying to hurt me, their nails are sharp and I end up with scratches.

 

I got some freeze dried salmon (only) cat treats; M'row thought he'd died and gone to heaven. Before his diagnosis he got Greenies; I had to give them up as they are high-carbs, and after getting off kibble he doesn't like them any more. There wswaa good variety of meat-only kitty/doggy treats at the pet food store.

 

Catcat says, even more appealing than the bonito curls, is Meow Mix Tender Favorites .. two of the flavors (seafood) are low in carbs, they are little shreds of fish/shellfish in a sort of gel, guar gum as the broth thickener -- in a peel-top cup that smells great even to me -- I got it at Walmart, haven't seen it anyplace else

extra treat reward since for the first time WITHIN NORMAL RANGE -- probably close to the nadir, two hours after shot ..

oh he'll probably be bugging me for more at 5 AM -- gets light around here then, this time of year

 

Anything is possible. He might have become aggressive. But so not him. I know one cat that was there, and being collected that night along with Rupie had to be given a sedative. They couldn't work with that cat, and had to wear gloves. Even so it was impossible. Catzilla??? They instructed his caregiver to give him another pill? before bringing him in again. No medication for Rupie. Not needed. The fact that they did the same to my other cat when he was out/being neutered has me thinking they like to practice. Not on my cat/s. And if it has to be done for their saftely issues... please inform us after it has been done. No being sneaky. We found some vets were better than others at returning calls and telling us how our boy was doing. As a result we have trust issues with this office.

 

We never trim our boys nails. And yes, they claw. Not at us but on certain pieces of furniture. Roops likes a chair in the living room, and computer chairs, and Ollie likes the rug in my son's room. The only time Roops has nailed me with one of his claws ...is when he has had catnip, or I am playing with me. Ouch! Neither use a scratching post. I think it must be introduced to them as young kittens.

 

I am going to be checking out the pet store again. My daughter brought him home some special treats and he turned his nose up to them. People food like chicken, turkey, beef...he never touches. But likes to smell what we eat. Our cupbearer. I have to find alternative treats or better choices for him. Train him...and me.

 

had to look up Meow Mix Tender Favorites. We have it up here. Picked up a can of Friskies Salmon, and Seafood Medley yesterday. Trying to wean him off kibbles. the other boy too. Canned cat food better. The older one never drinks enough. And eats sparingly. I think Ollie will be about 15 this year. Ollie misses his house mate. the smacks, the pokes, the chasing of each other. Yesterday my youngest daughter caught Ollie licking the top of Rupie's head. I think they know or are aware of what the other might be feeling. Both can be jealous of each other. Who is king cat. But beneath that, I think they have a certain affection or tolerance for each other. Family. btw my daughter weighed Rupie last night. He is a bit over 18 pounds ... so too fluffy. Gained maybe a few ounces since being diagnosed. Will be glad to start Zobaline. My daughter is eager to start it. His neuropathy has not improved. Worsened if anything since we first took him to the vet. So proper treatment and diet vital. Beginning to take his blood sugar today. Have already began lowering his insulin without testing. Gave him 3 units last night. Down from 5. Saw no significant change in his mood/appetite.