New - adopted an ill cat. Where to go from Health.

Hey everyone.

I'd like to share my story about Scooter...

I was looking for a kitty to adopt for apartment life. I didn't want to deal with the hyper destructive kitten phase, so I opted to adopt an older cat. I found Scooter on a local classified site. The owners were looking to get rid of him because they worked too much and weren't home enough to look after him properly. Pretty standard excuse. He is a 6 year old siamese ragdoll cross, neutered.

When I got him home however, I noticed within the first few days that he ate and drank a hugely abnormal amount. I have had cats all my life and never have I seen a cat eat and drink so much.. and consequentially, use the litter box so much. I went out for a weekend and came home to find the (huge and deep) litter box clogged full, urine and feces on the floor, and an angry message from my landlord complaining about the smell. I knew something was really wrong at that point.

I looked up what could be the cause, and all of the symptoms seem to point to diabetes.... however I've not been able to get a vet confirmation yet. I am a college student, living on a typical college student budget. I don't know if I can afford not only the money, but the time it takes to look after a diabetic cat. I have a sister very ill with cancer right now and Scooter is making it really hard to be with my family and support them. I was ready for the responsibilities of a cat - but not the responsibilities of an ill cat. On top of everything, his personality is not clicking with me and I fear he is going to become a vent for my frustrations.

I have been trying to find a home for him, but I'm struggling... no one wants to adopt a chronically ill cat... I don't know what to do. His old owners would not reply to my emails and calls when I left messages regarding the fact that he might be ill.

So much has come up in my life lately. I can probably scrape up the money for a vet appointment or two to at least confirm the diagnosis... but where do I go from there? Do I have to put on the ball and chain and give him insulin shots every day, blood glucose tests, a pricy specialized diet, litter box cleanings twice a day... and give up what I have left of my social life and money for a cat who feels more like a burden than a pet?

Some insight would really help me out right now...

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Welcome Jaguar!

I am only 4 weeks old to FD. I was very overwhelmed when I my cat was DX. I can answer a couple of your questions. The board gets busier in the morning so more experienced people will be able to answer your questions into more detail.

First off what kind of food are you feeding your cat? If you are feeding your friend dry food. Get him off it. Dry food is high in carbs. With diabetes it is very important to feed a low carb diet. Just like diabetes in humans. Low carb high protein. Certain can food is low in carbs. The food is not expensive. Most people feed their diabetic cats Fancy Feast.

Once the BG levels lower many cats stop drinking as much & using the liter box as much. My 14 yr old cat was doing all the same as you described. He has been on insulin tomorrow is 4 wks. He has started playing again & is back to grooming himself. He doesn't drink or use the liter box as much.

It is possible that with diet change your cat my not need insulin. Some cats even go into remission once they are on insulin. Therefor they don't need insulin anymore.

With FD you do have to monitor the BG with testing. Because that helps determine how much insulin you need to admin. Depending on the brand of insulin the vet gives you.

Your cat is still very young. If you change his diet right now to a canned low carb & get him on a eating schedule. His pancreas might kick in & do its part. There are people with success stories who started a low carb diet before insulin & the cat didn't end up needing insulin.

Everything is going to be okay. Just take a deep breath & breathe. That is what everyone here told me when I first posted.

Jenn & Baxter

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Check your private message folder.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I know better than to feed him junk... he is on a high quality dry food right now. It is listed as low carb but I can't find a full analysis of carbs on the bag. It's Blue Buffalo Wilderness, chicken formula... and a $40 (12lb) bag lasts him about 3 weeks. Pet food prices in Canada are absurd... I have tried introducing him to Evo canned food from my previous family cats, but he is just one of those ones that will not eat anything other than what he's used to. If you have any suggestions for making the switch, let me know.

I find it interesting that you would suggest Fancy Feast though, I recall it containing by-products and carb stuff like soy... maybe they've changed in the past few years but I've come to the conclusion that if it's sold at Wal Mart (here at least) I wouldn't feed it to my cat. :YMSIGH:

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thanks for the PM Lisa but I can't reply, says you have PMs disabled. Getting him to a vet is going to be tough, I have no carrier (old owners never gave me it after saying they would...) nor a vehicle, so... I get to take him on the public bus. :YMSIGH:

I don't think it's that he's scared or settling - I've had him for almost 2 months now and he's pretty relaxed around me, he's just about as affectionate as a rock. He likes to be in the same room as me - he sleeps on the floor wherever I am, but that's about as affectionate as he gets. He's not ill behaved, he uses his scratching post and only misses the litter box when it's too dirty for his concerns (which is usually only after I've been gone out for a while). He meows a lot when he's low on food or water though, and wakes me up constantly at night... even if there's some left in the bowls he will squawk until I top it off, which is honestly my biggest issue right now. He is so loud my landlords upstairs can hear it :shock:

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Unfortunately, the term "high quality" and "dry" are mutually exclusive terms and really don't belong in the same sentence due to the carbohydrate content and just as importantly...if not even more important...the water depletion.

Please see the Diabetes, Urinary Tract Health (if only to look at Opie's pictures to see the intense suffering that dry food often causes), and Tips for Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food on my website linked below.

I would feed Friskies or Fancy Feast canned long before I would feed Blue Buffalo dry. Unfortunately, there are a lot of falsehoods circulating the internet when it comes to cat food. I would feed canned by-products in a heartbeat before feeding any high carb, dry food....or even any lower carb dry food, for that matter. All dry foods are water-depleted and the cat does not make up the deficit at the water bowl no matter how much humans want to believe that they do.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I wish you luck on your cat. I myself am in my late 20's when i found out last year that my cat had diabetes. She is now 6, and doing very well. I came home from a vacation, and my fiancee was looking after her. He noticed her loosing weight, and eating more. but wasnt too concerned. I however, know my cat and wanted to get her checked out. She looked awful. Had lost about 5-6 pds and was a fairly small cat. She was very healthy we thought. Till the weight loss, urinating a lot, drinking a lot, and eating excessively. Our vet was amazing and did all the proper testing. She was there about 6 days. It was soo stressful and scary. It was hard to keep it together with our baby soo sick. Finally a few days later the vet told me it wasn't cancer. That her test results showed her as a diabetic. I was soo scared. I didn't know what to do. Financially we were ok, but i didn't know how much all the items would cost us. Then they said she needed an expensive diet, insulin twice a day, and new needles. I was over my head i thought. The vet showed me how to give her the shots, and it was soo scary at first. I learned, and taught my fiancee how to do it as well. Now we work as a team. The vet we go to is amazing. They work with us on payments. All i can say is she is soo healthy now. It's like she was never sick. I still have to do 1 unit twice a day. Feedings before. We just stick to a strict schedule that works for us. Being young, and having a diabetic cat changed our lives, but i wouldn't take it back for a second. The choice i made to keep her, and take care of her have been soo rewarding. I love my animals so much and would do whatever it takes. I do understand your situation with all the circumstances in your life. I hope you can find a vet that will work with you on payments. I know there are people and foundations out there willing to help with donations for vet exams. A few of my friends recommended too if i couldn't keep her for some reason, to have her go to a pet friendly nursing home. That way the nurses are all ready trained to give injections. So maybe that could be a solution if you couldn't keep your cat. I'm wishing you the best in whatever you do. I know how hard it can be at first. After awhile it just becomes part of your routine and life. You just learn to work around it. If your cat is diagnosed there are so many places for support too.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thanks but I'm doing the best I can with what I have... expensive local prices and poor selection don't make it easy... it might not be the best but for now but it's better than say, Purina cat chow. He will not even TOUCH any moist foods, even when mixed in with his current food, and I've tried just about everything, including the directions from your site. I don't know what to try next.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thank you Steph, sorry you posted while I was typing.

I think I would feel a lot differently about the situation if I had an actual attachment/bond to Scooter, but I don't... and that's what's making it really tough. I don't want to withhold treatment, but at the same time, I can't justify spending so much time and money on a cat that doesn't give anything back to me.

Maybe with a diet adjustment he will change... if not, I don't know yet.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Please don't think that this is too harsh of me but part of caring for any animal is to make sure that you have a way to get them medical care. That involves having a sturdy, safe carrier and a vet picked out (both a regular daytime vet and knowledge of the closest emergency clinic) and a way to get there.

And maybe this is because he is not feeling well?? Or maybe this is just his personality...hard to say...

I just re-read your original post and noted this:

How "huge"? Dimensions? One issue that I have noted on many, many occasions in my years working with cats is that people often consider boxes "huge" when they really are not that big. For instance, I use a 39 gallon storage container that is 29" long, 19.5" tall and 19.5" wide. That is pretty big. I keep 80-90 lbs of litter in it.

Was there anyone checking on him and cleaning his litter box when you were gone? Litter boxes need to be cleaned at least twice daily unless you really are using a huge storage container like the one that I use. Think of how you would feel if you had to walk around in a box full of urine and feces....

One of the most common reasons why cats urinate and defecate outside of the litter box is very simply because the human has let the box get too dirty. As far as I am concerned, a box is plenty dirty once there are more than 3-4 'items' in it which happens within ~12 hours for most cats.

Cats are very fastidious and clean animals. I never blame them if they go elsewhere when the human is not scooping the box enough.

Since you have had him for 2 months...and you mention that the above went on for the first few days....how much is he eating and drinking now?

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Bottom line....you need to get him to a vet to get him checked out. He may be perfectly healthy and this is just his personality...or there may be something wrong.

And the second 'bottom line' is that you need to get him off of dry food and eating low carb canned food. This is true of ALL cats...not just diabetic ones.

I just read your last reply about him not wanting canned food. Keep trying. It took me three long and very frustrating months to get my cats off of dry food. It is my strong opinion that every cat will eat an appropriate diet if the human works at it long and hard enough.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Hi there!!

Where do you live? I'm a graduate student in Canada almost in the same situation..... ALthough I had my cat for 5 years prior to diagnosis (I'm in Hamilton at McMaster University)

It hasn't been easy on the pocketbook, but with this website it's not as bad as you think.

I'm sorry you got the cat under false pretenses, that's really crappy, and it's going to be hard to get rid of a cat that goes outside the litter box etc, almost impossible.

First and foremost when I got the cats (since they were older) I started setting aside as much as I could (sometimes as little as $50/month) for "incase of vet emergency)

Anyways.... cost to me as been initial diagnosis vet appointment (around $100), First time buying syringes and insulin ($150), I got the glucometer for free from a diabetic friend, but really they are the cheapest part, around$15 I think, the test strips were a lot, i've bought them twice at $80 each time. Hasn't been back to the vet since thanks to this website. So all in all it has cost me less than $500, which for a pet sickness is not bad, spent much more than that on acute sickness in the past.

Cello was diagnosed after not being treated for a few months, he was going outside the litter box, my life was a mess (I was lucky enough to have my family help out and buy him a litter robot when he was sick, they are $400, self cleaning litter boxes, but his pees were SO BIG it sometimes clogged). His BG's were incredible high, in Canadaian talk 28-30. I also recommend you invest in some kind of water dish with a large resevoir, if he is diabetic he needs a lot of water, not fair to keep it from him, and maybe an automatic feeder, both these things are a one time cost, you can keep forever with all cats and will make your life through this SO much easier.

I switched him from the "high quality dry" he was on, to all fancy feast and he did get a big better, BGs went down to 20ish range, some cats will be cured from this diet increase, the food is a bit more expensive actually than feeding wet, but I've just cut back on some frivolous stuff.

Once I decided to start insuin I did twice daily 12 hours apartish, which works for most schedules, even if it's a pain in the ass sometimes, as long as you are home testing, if you aren't bang on the 12 hour mark you can make it work.

Cello was on insulin for less than 4 weeks before going into remission. With the right treatment there is a good chance this is temporary, where are you located, maybe there is somebody close by who can help?? I totally broke down when I started doing this, thought I couldn't do it with my lifestyle, people around me thought I was crazy, it was tough.

Good luck and welcome.... if you have any questions please let me know.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

The carrier part - when I adopted him, they told me they would give me his carrier, but never showed up to drop it off... I will get one when it's time to go to the vet, which will probably not be until after Christmas.

I recently moved in August and I haven't established a cat vet yet. I have a regular vet here for my other pets (rats) but I've yet to see anyone for "standard" pets. Having moved recently also means I don't have any friends/family nearby to help me take him to the vet, nor clean his litter box while I'm out. That leads me to the whole reason of why I wanted a cat, I have social issues and suffer depression and anxiety, and I'm alone 99% of the time. I've always found comfort in cat ownership, so I opted to adopt one, but this whole ordeal has almost pushed me over the edge.

His litter box is about 28" x 18", it is also a storage container, and there is about 40 pounds of clumping clay litter (no additives) in it. Within 2 days there is urine soaked all the way down to the bottom and it is soggy and extremely difficult to remove, and hard on my back. I saw the urine clump size comparison on your page... Scooters are larger than the scoop.
I will get him off the dry food asap... I have been trying... dry food is not my preferred choice either but I needed something in the meantime he would actually eat...

Thanks cellosmom... I'm working on diet improvements but he's stubborn... hopefully this gets easier... I'm in Kelowna, living with my boyfriend (more like a roommate lately) from the USA who wants absolutely *nothing* to do with Scooter (in his opinion I should just dump him at the shelter to be euthanized) so I mostly factor him out of the equation. He will not touch the litter box with a 10 foot pole. He gets very very angry (at me) when Scooter wakes him up when he's trying to sleep. It's tough when no one helps you out.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Jaguar, I would atleast take your animal in. Just to see what is going on. If anything, just get the results, and find out your options. I know your not attached, but as an owner of any cat you take on that committment to them. They can't tell us when they are sick. We as owners can see by their habits. I know your a busy college student, and with the circumstances of family things i'm so sorry. I wish you luck. See if there is a low income vet. Maybe they could help you out. I know my vet took on a cat that was older and diabetic. It was owned by a young college student who couldn't take on the responsibilites of the animal. I know the prior owners may have given you a sick cat but like i said just take the poor thing in. My cat was soo sick, and if i hadn't got her to the vet immediately she could have passed away. If your cat is potentially diabetic they will start your cat on treatment right away. For the meanwhile soft food is a great idea. Try to stay away from a hard food diet. Or you can mix the hard and soft together. I would try fancy feast. Another they can give you is dm by purina. It is for diabetic cats.I think you can only get that through your local vets office though. That is what my scooter is on. I really wish you luck, and i hope you find a good home for him, if you are unable to keep him. best of luck to you.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I totally understand!!! I don't have a lot of help with my cats right now.

That is a tough situation. I found a retired nurse who was offering petsitting on kijiji, she only charges me $10 a time out and learned how to give needles.

I know it really feels like an impossible situation right now./ *hugs*

It is obvious you are trying.

My OTHER cat is resistant to the wet food, and she has had liver failure in the past from not eating, so I"m struggling with that right now (trying to get her to switch foods) so I know it can be tough. Luckily my diabetic boy will eat anything.

I added to my other post, getting an automatic feeder/watering system will at least help you out for now in some respects. Maybe you can find a pet lover online somewhere to help....

first thing regardless unfortunately is getting them to a vet, because it is still possible it's not diabetes.... and IF it is diabetes, with Cello within a week of being on insulin at least his symptoms (peeing outside the box etc.) were almost all gone. within 2 weeks, he was a completely normal symptom free cat with a totally normal litter box..... so it might be worth it for your situation.

GOod luck, we'll be here

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thanks for the suggestions and kind words everyone. It's 6:11 AM now and I've been up all night caught between reading and being horribly upset about all of this.. I'll get a little bit of sleep and at least pick up a hard carrier while I'm out tomorrow. Any vet bills will need to go on my Visa (thank goodness I was miraculously approved) and will have to be paid off in the future... I have had a few vet recommendations from people but some are as far as 40-an hour bus ride away and i know that he HATES vehicles. I'll do what I can. Thanks again.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Oh and a pic before I go...



he likes to sleep under my Christmas tree.... I just want to be able to look at him and feel something a bit more positive than resentment. :sad:

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

What beautiful cat. I wanted to point out that if he IS diabetic, you are not seeing your cat's true personality. He feels like crap. On top of being in a new environment, you could have a completely different cat if diabetic and being treated. I agree with Dr. Lisa, you need a carrier and a way to get to the vet. That really is part of ownership. This seems, I'm sure, entirely unfair but I have found things seem to happen for a reason. I got my diabetic from my brother (she wasn't diabetic then). I took her in because I knew she would never be adopted and it seemed unfair to let her go to a shelter or something. She was never like my other cats I had from babies. She and I did not bond off the bat. Or for a long time. Actually, when she got really sick (with several issues asthma, diabetes, heart trouble) is when we started to bond. I never knew as much about cats until I had ill ones!

One thing you may not realize though is that IF it is diabetes, if you test, and give insulin and put kitty on a lower carb food, you may not even *recognize* this cat in very short order. Insulin can have stunning effects within days. It is true that you can't leave him alone for a couple of days with food and water. Someone will have to be able to test and give shots twice a day. So that is difficult and I am sorry that it sounds like your boyfriend is not being supportive. THere may be someone nearer you can work with in those scenarios.

But the first step would certainly be a vet check. It's really the first thing you should do on adopting anyway. If your diagnosis is diabetes, there are definitely ways to handle it. It does cost more than a regular "normal" cat but it can be made affordable.

I am sorry that you are going through this but I feel even sorrier for kitty who did nothing to make his original owners get rid of him. He is SUCH a beauty. I really think if you give him a chance and work with him, you may find that you have a truer friend then you ever had before.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

You have already gotten a lot of information from others so I won't rehash what has already been said. But from the flip-side of the coin. I have 2 diabetics that I adopted as diabetics. Both of which today if I could go back and look at them when they first came to live with me and compare it to the cats they have become in a very short period of time, you would be amazed.

First was Maxwell...he is my elegant southern gentleman, but when he first arrived he clearly didn't feel well, while he was social he wasn't what I would call cuddly, he didn't purr, he wasn't interested in playing but did like to be held and petted. With just a diet switch and a short course of insulin he went into remission very quickly and now other than being careful what he eats he is like having any other cat.

Then came Musette, those first couple of months with her I truly wondered what I had gotten myself into...she was nasty! She would growl, bite, and slap (she is declawed in the front). She hated me and all the other animals in my house...Today, she comes running when I call her, purrs through her shots and tests, sleeps on my husband's pillow and wakes me up in the mornings with kisses and purrs, usually dragging one of her toys with her so we can cuddle and play. She is still adjusting to all the animals in my house but at least now gets along very well with Maxwell, and my little antisocial girl Lady Jane Grey. But I understand why she is warming up slowly to everyone here, it can be way overwhelming since there are 13 cats here in total and one large clumsy dog.

But honestly until you see Scooter well it is hard to judge what kind of guy you have there, you may find that he is just the cat you were looking for. And IF this is diabetes the bond that is created between cat and caregiver becomes amazingly strong, cats are smart they quickly realize that you are trying to help them, that those pesky little shots make them feel better, and those tiny ear pokes of testing means treats for them.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

kudos to you for sticking in there and trying to help scooter. what a beauty - and yes, if he's sick you are not seeing the real scooter. no more than it would be your "real" personality if you felt like crap.

in general, the cheapest canned cat food is better than the most expensive dry cat food. and when you are choosing canned cat food you don't want any gourmet types, especially nothing with any kind of gravy. that is full of carbs. you want fancy feast classics only - or friskies pate style - the old style of cat foods that come out in a chunk. can't emphasize that enough - if we have a cat's blood sugar drop we give them 1 teaspoon of the gravy kinds to pull up their blood sugar. so you don't want to switch to anything like that or you won't see improvement.

the DM from the vet is still higher carbs than the fancy feast classics, also more expensive and inconvenient to buy.

edited to fix his name - don't want to offend the little guy by calling him by your name! :lol:

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

OH SCOOTER! What a STRIKING BEAUTY you are!

MamaBean - Just taking time to post here tells me you DO have a connection already. I'd kick that 'BF' to the curb, that's the last thing you need when dealing with depression! You've already got lots of good advice above so I'll not repeat it but I want to share an observation with you.

Your cat looks like a mix of Maine Coon. Seeing that tells me that Scooter's natural personality probably isn't a 'lap cat', he probably prefers to be near you, not 'on' you. They are very intelligent and tend to sit back and survey situations first. Think about it from this point of view.

HUGS!!!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

DCIN, Diabetic Cats In Need, can help with test strips and even insulin after a vet has confirmed the diabetes diagnosis.

Where are you in Canada? We have many Canadian members - perhaps even in your area.

Send an email to Venita@dcin.info

DCIN has a blog and is also on Facebook

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

If you find a hard sided carrier to be pricey - look for a soft sided carrier. make sure it zips closed all and you may discover it less costly thanhard sided.
I got several at pet smart and they are easier than hard sided

so just an idea when you go to buy a carrier.

scooter is one handsome boy

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Dear Scooter's Mom,
I thought I would let you know something you might not believe right now but that most folks here would whole heartedly agree with.
Feline Diabetes is a gift in disguise.
Now before you think I'm some wacko hear me out.
Every single one of us has noticed an amazing bond develope between ourselves and our sugar kitties.
That is part of what happens while you treat him.
Bonding. Like no other.
And then there is the board.
You will find so much help, real concrete help...and love and support here on the board.
Sugar kitties moms and dads...well, what can I say, you start treating your kitty and you are just considered family here.
That is it.
You are family.
I happen to have supplies I can send you. Meter, strips, lancets, a rice sockie to warm the ear, a couple of high end cat nip toys...home made of course.
Feline Diabetes is not a death sentence...nor is it a very big deal to treat.
But treat you shall.
It is a gift.
You can't see that now.
My diabetic boy became the most special animal I've ever known in my life.
Please give this a chance.
You will not regret it.
Let me know how I can help with supplies.
Lori
Newbie Kits

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

ah, lori, so very true. not a single one of us wanted this . . . and yet i find myself wondering what life would've been like without it. punkin has blessed me incredibly and i wouldn't change anything if i could. he is my little buddy.

if you're on facebook, maybe post and see if someone you know has a carrier they would sell/loan you. or look on craigslist. i think carriers are something that people do get rid of here and there and you may be able to get one cheap.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thanks so much everyone - I wasn't able to get him a carrier today because I had to pack a 40lb box of cat litter home instead...

I will get him to a vet ASAP for proper diagnosis... in the meantime we had a breakthrough in the whole wet/canned food thing, he ate an entire can of the Fancy Feast in one go this evening, no complaints whatsoever... except squawking for more lol... so I returned his bag of Blue Buffalo for a whopping $48 credit!

Hopefully this will help him feel at least a little bit better in the meantime before the vets... I will give a few places a call next week and ask for their testing protocols, treatment options, and prices. Then from there I can determine what I need for supplies if necessary.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Hi,
Sounds like you've had a pretty rough day.....I just wanted to let you know that WalMart Special Kitty canned food is actually the food of choice for many of us. Don't buy into the more money equals better trap. It's all about carbs, and Special Kitty is low carb. Take a look at the links in my sig. Two of them will point you to canned food data, and pay close attention to the "carb" column. Look for anything below 7%. You'll see lots of Fancy Feast, Friskees and Special Kitty fall into that category.

Also, click on the other link to the DCIN page. Someone suggested you contact DCIN, and that link will take you to the blog. You might be able to get some help there.....it's worth a look?

Carl

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thank you for the list. It dawned on me that wild cats do not go around picking human grade meat from carcasses... so "by products" are in their natural diet... never really put that together until now. ohmygod_smile

I got him the following foods to try out:

Fancy Feast
Chicken Feast (chunky and pate) - 5% and 6% carbs respectively (if I'm reading correctly)

Special Kitty
Tuna and Chicken Dinner - no info ("banquet" has 3%)

Whiskas
Chicken Pate - no info ("chicken dinner" has 4%)

He has eaten the Fancy Feast and Whiskas so far with no complaints. Whichever is "better" for the price I will continue to buy for him. Fancy Feast is significantly more expensive because it only comes in small 3 oz cans... but 2 cans a day should be enough, right?

I'll contact DCIN when I have a solid diabetes diagnosis... right now we're not 100% sure.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

2 cans of FF should do it, but how much does he weigh? I feed my cat, Bob, 3 cans a day, but he weighs 14lbs. At least in the pic, your kitty doesn't look that hefty. He might act hungrier than that depending on how high his BG is. Diabetics tend to eat more than normal at first. When Bob was on insulin, I'd give him a 3oz can at breakfast and dinner, and then mid day I'd give him about 2 oz of Friskees (since that's what my other cat, Mullet, eats and it's cheaper than Fancy Feast).

Carl

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I don't know yet - he is fairly light though, pretty skinny underneath, especially in his hips/waist. I think he is underweight. But I'll get a scale for him soon too.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Good morning.

I've read your thread a few times but wasn't sure how to respond. In July of 2005 I adopted Tucker and was told he was a 6 yr old healthy male. The very next day after coming home he was showing strange signs. He ate his food sideways, he was sleeping with his head in the water bowl.

What followed was an ordeal, I can't even believe it myself, from the ER visits, the specialists, the heart ultrasounds, biopsies even a woman at the clinic who started to stalk him because he looked like her cat who had passed away days before she met him. I remember one day going to the clinic and my vet had to console her as she cried and worried Tucker might die.

I learned a lot from July 2005 to November when he finally got the FD dx along with a bunch of other ailments. I didn't have the guidance of the folks here and if I had, I might not be calling that time period an ordeal. I think there would have been a lot of things I could have done differently had I been here first. I joined FDMB in March of 2006.

I don't expect everyone to take from FD the same feelings I have but if Tucker who was a 13 yr plus aged kitty at the time of adoption hadn't shown up my views on so many levels would be very different today.

You have already done so much good for your kitty. Finding FDMB, changing the food, that's huge. Next step would be bloodwork, the muscle wasting in the back end could mean FD, it's also possible signs of kidney issues or hyperthyroidism. I think having a vet check your new friend is a great idea. I'd also confirm kitty's age and see how his teeth are, do a full physical. Check out DCIN's financial assistance program as Carl mentioned and post on FDMB as often as you'd like, people here are very knowledgeable and so willing to help.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

You might find this web page helpful in deciding how much food to give
Cat Info

extract from page
"Most male cats should fall into the 11 -13 pound range.
...Using an optimal body weight of 12 pounds as an example, we come up with 233 calories/day as a starting point.
[13.6 X 12 pounds] + 70 = 233"

Binky's page indicates calorie counts per can, so you can see how many calories he's getting from the canned food you are giving.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

OMG! I am SOOOOO happy to read this. I am so happy he's eating wet. Whew.

I was getting depressed reading this thread. I had a cat in college too and had no clue what I was doing. (not saying that's how you are) I was so not ready for any vet issues. I had no carrier and no vet. He wasn't fixed. What a bad owner I was.

Your cat is gorgeous. I have two long-haired Siamese mixes too. I got them from Siamese rescue. I really hope you can bond more with your cat. It does sound like he's got diabetes. It's too bad your BF is so negative about Scooter because this is an opportunity to show what a "good guy" he by helping you with this.

Let the folks on this board help you. There's lots of very kind-hearted helpful people here. Don't give up yet!!!!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

jaguar, how are you doing? SO happy to hear your cat is doing well. I find it soo funny our cats share the same name. The only difference is mine is female. She is very young as well. We believe about 6. So she was diagnosed around 5. Scooter wasn't overweight either. Which made it really crazy. I hope the best for you and this journey your on. Your b.f should understand your hard times. It is a true test. I know i take my cat to all the vet appts, but my fiancee helps with the feedings, and injections. You two have to become a team in this. I don't know if you live together, but once again i'm wishing you luck.

I was also soo happy to see all of the support you are getting on here. Your cat is gorgeous by the way. Very handsome. I need to get a picture of my scooter on here. She is soo sweet and friendly now that her diabetes is regulated. She was soo grouchy before all of this. Once again, soo happy the fancy feast is working. That will help for the meanwhile. I would deff get that carrier as soon as you can. Like someone said through craigslist, or see if a friend has one. I'm sure there is someone out there. Take care and i'm just soo happy you have gotten all of the advice, and your on the right path towards getting your kitty better. best wishes,
stephanie.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Hi guys, I just wanted to stop in and say I'm so happy you are going to do what you can for scooter! We've all been where you are, scared, stressed, resentful (hey, I was and I'll admit it!) We were in our 20's when mocha was diagnosed and thought much of the same, there goes our social life! But we pulled through and did what had to be done! Like others have said, we use special kitty from wal mart .. Mocha (a siamese as well) just LOVES the turkey and giblets .. I believe it runs around 3 or 4% carbs. We also add in some water to it and she slurps it right down .. Once we started her on the wet cat food and adjusting her insulin needs, the mass piles of urine in the litterbox slowed down almost immediately .. Her poop smell was gone almost overnight with the wet cat food .. her fur became like silk .. She became more active, not sleeping all the time .. Now after 22 months of being on shots every day, she just celebrated 9 months OFF the juice and is now a happy 8 year old girl who just loves the sunshine, her fuds and her toys .. It couldn't be a better life for her .. I wish the same for scooter!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Your cat is beautiful! I wonder if he would take to the "love Glove" from Drs. Foster & Smith like my Cedric (see photo ->) does. That's a ritual we do every night (then I go scoop the litter boxes).
Scooter might not be a "hugger" like my Cedric is. Cedric is very affectionate, wants hugs, etc. Dallas is the stray cat that I rescued Sept 1st. He loves me very much but is not what I would call a "hugger." He doesn't like to be held, but will snuggle with me in bed sometimes (followed by "let me chase my tail!"). He likes to be with me though. Scooter might be more like Dallas in that respect. Get his illness fixed/controlled and I'll be he might change. The fact that he follows you around does say something!

Glad you ditched the dry. The gang here were on me about that when Cedric was dx'd and I started using Wilderness dry (he also ate canned food). When I got rid of the dry, his BG numbers went down 100 points and 2 days later he was off insulin. He is now diet controlled. I work 7 days a week, so when I am not home, he gets 2 meals fed to him using an automatic feeder. If I will be away over night, though, he needs to be kennelled. or someone has to come in to feed him. Litter box is cleaned every day - hate it, but it MUST be done. I bought a house earlier this year and am so happy we get trash pick up twice a week! that stuff smells!

Anyway, I asked my dad to get Dallas a soft-sided carrier for Christmas from Drs Foster & Smith - it was like $27 (US) and almost as big as the plastic one Cedric has. Please get Scooter to the vet asap. The sooner your get a dx on what his problem is, the sooner he can get better. Carl & Jennifer have given you DCIN info - good luck & best wishes! Keep us posted!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

If you can rig a small bench or box to put the litter box on while scooping, it is much less hard on the back!

I have a spinal fusion that doesn't let me bend very well; putting the box up on something makes the scooping less painful to do!
Aim for a minimum of daily, so it doesn't get so soggy and gunky; your cat will thank you.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Thanks again everyone.

Scooter is not something I would ever name my cat, but he knows it too well now to change it.

I filled up his water bowl last night and there was still water in it when I woke up... so unless he's drinking it somewhere else, that is a good sign. We'll see what the litter box has to say today. Once a day cleaning isn't a problem.. it was his excessive amount of urine that made me have to bend over for half an hour to scrape the caked clay off the sides of the box that drove me crazy. If that changes, I can live with everything else. He's still lazing around the house not doing much of anything, but I'll watch him. I slept in really late today so no chance to call the vet yet.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Measuring water consumption is one of the ways to see how he's doing.

If you've got a good measuring cup set, measure the amount you put in and the amount remaining at the next change out. Record the difference in amount and the time interval. Along with his weight, this is useful to track his progress. As the glucose control improves, the amount remaining should gradually increase.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Scooter has drank about a cup of water in the past day. I cleaned the litter box just now for the first time since yesterday and there were 3 large pee clumps and 1 poo. No diarrhea or anything... and nothing caked to the sides or bottom of the box :thumbup Today he ate 1 3 oz can of FF, and 3/4 of a 13.8 can of the Whiskas. He LOVES it. What a breakthrough!

Hopefully I'm not jumping the gun here, but it looks like we're doing better now.

He's still the same old lazy, unaffectionate potato... and he meows A LOT because he hasn't realized that this new yummy food is here to stay. But if I don't have to spend hours in complete agony after scraping gunked clay off the sides of his litter box, I think we can get along :smile:

Vet will come soon, boyfriend's parents will be here on the 20th and he will probably go to the vet on the 21st or 22nd. Need to talk it over with them because they wanted to go snow tubing one of those days before Christmas.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

You might take a look at clicker training to encourage specific behaviors.

First, get a clicker.

second, "load" the clicker - every time you put down some tasty food, click. If you put it down a spoonful at a time, you can load the clicker quicker (say that 10 times fast!)

Third, pick 1 very specific behavior you want to encourage, such as looking at you or coming towards you when you say his name.
Every time he does it, click and treat (low carb, please!). Keep this up for a good week or two.
Start with something small and increase the behavior complexity slowly, until he learns the desired behavior.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I know not everyone agrees with this type of litter box, but I have this one and I love it: http://www.breezeforcats.com/.

You're changing pads instead of litter, so it is far easier to keep clean if you have a busy schedule. The only thing you scoop out is the poo--and you can flush it right down the toilet.

Just a warning--if scooter is prone to runny poos you don't want to get this box. They're awful to clean up. But if his poo is mostly firm and normal, it's a life saver. Also, you're likely going to need to change the pad more frequently than recommended until the diabetes is under control.

There's a $10 off coupon if you click on "buy it now".

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Scooter's been doing well, I decided to go with a few different Special Kitty formulas. He has had no issues with vomiting or diarrhea... guts of steel lol. He's still peeing big clumps but not flooding the box anymore - my landlord says she can't smell him anymore which is good.

He is still really lethargic and low energy, so I will be taking him to the vet on Wednesday or Thursday - he is going to see Dr. Oz at Rose Valley Vet Hospital in West Kelowna BC. When I first moved, my banker at TD recommended him... I called 5 clinics around town and he was the only Doctor that called me back personally and he was very very nice, told me he would offer the lowest pricing possible, etc.

So fingers crossed everything goes well for Scooter. I will let you guys know the results.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Good luck at the vets!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

This is a tangent, but try The World's Best CAt LItter.

I just got it after having used PEtco clay clumping. This new kind is AMAZING, it doesn't crumble when you scoop, doesn't get the pan or scooper dirty and is very light. It clumps. It's amazing. It's slightly more expensive but allegedly lasts longer (I've only been using 2 weeks). Honeslty, I've never gotten excited to scoop litter, now I am. This stuff is much much better. And it's healthier for kitty since it's made of corn, not clay, so if they lick their bodies and ingest some, not terrible.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

I have been using the World's Best Cat Litter for over a year now. I always bought the big bag of Multiple Cat (red bag) formula. Recently I received a free bag of the regular stuff and honestly, I hate the regular stuff. It tracks everywhere. I love the Multiple Cat forumla but cannot recommend the regular stuff (green bag). I pay about $30 for a 34 pound bag and it lasts for a couple of months with one cat. I do not have problems with the Multiple Cat stuff tracking.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Keep an eye on diabetics with WBCL, though. A couple months back someone found their sugar cat eating WBCL for a carb fix (with resulting high numbers).

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

The litter box isn't too bad now actually. I think shipping heavy litter to Canada would be more $$$ than I can afford at the moment.

In other news though, Scooter's appointment is in 3 hours. Excited but not really excited, you know?

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

good luck! let us know how it goes! we've all been there!

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Hi Martica,

While WBCL is my second choice over clay, it needs to be pointed out that WBCL can be MUCH harder on lungs than clay litter - with more asthma being seen due to the hyperallergenic nature of corn or wheat when compared to inert clay dust.

Also, I find WBCL to be MUCH dustier than Dr. Elsey's clay litter which is what I have used for the past ~12 years. When I tried WBCL I could write my name on the furniture within 24 hours. (I added a picture to my website showing the amount of WBCL - litter and dust - that was tracked out of the box in 24 hours.)

I will argue that it is not terrible for a cat to lick clay dust off of their coat anymore than it is harmful to lick corn or wheat dust off of their coat since the amount is minuscule. I receive several emails each year from people thinking that a cat can end up with intestinal blockage from licking clay dust or a few pieces of clay litter from their coat/paws which is silly given the small amount that is ingested.

As I say on my website, I would give my right arm to have someone find the perfect litter. They certainly *all* have their pluses and minuses! The dust and tracking of clumping litters but....the unsanitary nature of other setups that ask the cat to walk through their own waste or contact plastic filtering grates that have been covered in urine which is more off-putting/unsanitary for the cat....but I must say that I am extremely jealous of people who don't have to dust or sweep their houses so often.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

if you're in canada or the northern states - one possibility is wood stove pellets. they are simply compressed sawdust. i use it because it's cheap, "natural" and environmentally friendly. I pay $4-5 for a 40 lb bag that lasts a couple of weeks with 2 cats and 2 litter boxes, and i keep the boxes pretty clean.

the technique for scooping is slightly different than with clumping litters. as the urine flows through the pellets the bottom layer absorbs it and turns to sawdust. the top remains pellets. i give the box a little shake and the poop rises to the top - scoop that out and flush it. i have both boxes in bathrooms next to the toilet.

then i tip the box so the dry pellets run to one end, leaving the sawdust on the bottom. scoop that out into a garbage bag. if you were motivated you could dump it in your yard or a compost pile.

it doesn't smell, it's about as harmless as anything could be - there's no dust and no tracking unless you let the box get too wet and there's too much sawdust. if it gets like that, i dump the whole box and start with new pellets.

the cats would prefer the clay litter, but i hate the stuff. hate the perfumey ness or the unperfumed that get stinky. hate the heaviness of the wet clay too. it's also a lot more expensive. anyway, the cats do like the clay better but they adjusted to this ok and i vastly prefer it.

how did your appt go?

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Not stressing about the litter right now. He was on stove pellets before and I strongly disliked them, the pine smell bothered my nose and I was dumping out 20 dollars worth every week.

He is staying at the vets for the night. It was expensive, more than I was prepared for, but I have to do what I have to do I guess. Let me know if the receipt looks about right. They wanted to do some other blood test and a fructosamine test but that pushed it over $450 and I couldn't do it. oh and he weighs 5.5 kilos.

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Don't know Canada prices but I do know the fructosamine test would have told you definitely if he was diabetic. I'm lucky where I am in the boonies of Nebraska my vet is very cheap...with my first diabetic a week's stay at the vet's with all the test and 3 days in intensive care it only ran me $200.00 but then again an office call here is only $15, so I always have sticker shock when others talk about their vet bills.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - unknowingly adopted an ill cat.

Fructosamine was about 70? If he has to have it for a more clear answer we'll do it... but I was hoping this would be OK for now. We can't start treatment until after Christmas anyway.

He also has some dental issues so he needs a full dental done... that is about $400. :YMSIGH:

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

pricewise it looks really good to me. not sure about the blood collection fee and the courier fee as i've never seen those on a receipt down here but otherwise everything looks good to me. i pay roughly $60 for the exam, nearly $200 i think for a complete blood panel and $15-$20 for overnight stays.

as far as whether anything is missing, i would say no for right now. the blood panel will have a glucose reading on it which might be helpful as far as whether he's diabetic or not. if it's in the range of normal to high normal then i'd lean away from diabetes needing insulin right now and moreso vet stress factoring in but if it's sky high, i'd go with he IS diabetic and gonna need insulin sooner than later, assuming there's no sign of infection. if he's normal to high normal i'd keep him on the food you've changed him to and watch his glucose level periodically because he could still be diabetic but controlled by the diet and if it were to get out of control you'd want to catch it early again.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

The courier fee I think is for sending the blood sample to the lab... and the other fee is just for drawing the blood I guess.

The kind-of-good thing about him staying overnight is I'm sure they'll feed him a Hills food (saw the posters all over) that will probably bump his BG up high enough to cause alarm... Anyways I just called and they are keeping him for the afternoon to do a glucose curve... but she called it an insulin curve so... does that mean..?

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Glucose curve and insulin curve are the same thing.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

That more than likely means....Welcome to the Sugarcat dance...you are now officially the proud owner of a Diabetic.

Now that might sound like bad news, but I think a lot of us here will tell you that it is a blessing in disguise. I own and have owned lots of cats over the years...13 currently, but I have never had the strong bond to any of them like I do with my two sugarcats. There is just something very special about treating a diabetic cat, you move out of the realm of owner and pet to partners in a beautiful and yes sometimes highly frustrating dance.

I have also learned more about all of my cats in the little over year that I have been dancing with my extra sweet kitties, I am so much more aware of the whole cat than I ever was. And the coolest part is you have already found us, and we will be here to hold your hand and paw every inch of the way. We will be a shoulder to lean on, an ear to vent to, and we will laugh with you, cry with you and cheer on every success.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Okay. But we never really talked about an insulin curve in the office. So do you think his BG was high on the blood panel and now they're doing the curve to monitor it?

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Possibly. Is that why they wanted to keep him for the day? I may have missed the reasoning for that in an earlier post of yours.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Ah yes... that's what I figured.

I'm relieved in a way, because I was going in expecting diabetes to be the answer... I've had weeks to mull over what I was going to do, and deal with what it's going to be like... so the diagnosis is not a shock for me. And I've already found DCIN so once I send them his paperwork I can get a bit of help. :smile: It's all good. I didn't realize how attached I'd grown to him until he was gone for the night. I kept accidentally calling him and looking at his cans of food and thinking "oh crap I forgot to feed Scooter" ... :lol:

ETA: They told me yesterday he'd be ready in the morning, and nothing was really said about a glucose curve. Just what was on the paper. So I called this morning and they said they were keeping him later to do the curve. Which is fine. Leaving him there overnight was my choice, he had peed all over in the carrier and they couldn't do the urinalysis and ultrasound until he filled up again... and I didn't want to have to drive back and forth just to have him pee in the carrier again. They have really nice boarding areas and it was cheap (they charged me boarding - not hospitalization) so I figured that was the best thing to do.

Overall I'm really pleased with the care offered at this office, it was a bit of a brief visit, but they treated him like he was their own cat, gave him tons of belly rubs and head kisses and nice toys and blankets in his overnight pen. Dr. Oz is very nice and realistic, and he was all for home testing if it is diabetes (which it sounds like it is at this point). Will report back later

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

If you haven't gotten a meter already might as well get ahold of Lori and Tom (GA) that run the newbie kits and get her busy sending one out to you...Now that you are part of the FDMB family, Might as well get ready to join the Vampire Club as well.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

I think Celine from DCIN will be sending me one... we have been in touch over e-mail for the past few days. How thrilling though.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

If they suspect he's diabetic, they will do the curve, checking his BG every couple of hours or so. It is probably a little higher than it would be if you tested him at home, since he's at the vet's office (What chedic would call HELL if he could speak English....). :lol: My Cedric was only on insulin for a month, and I am here in the US so my numbers are differnent, but if you click on the spreadsheet below, you can see where I did 3 different curves on him. you can also see how much insulin he received at the start of the curve.

i know the bills can be tough - my rescue's bill was $1600 - but Scooter will love you for taking care of him!

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

honestly, don't waste your money on a curve at the vet. It's not going to tell you anything real - the cat is not in his home environment and stressed. All this factors into not getting the best numbers that you will get at home.

so save your money, get a meter and start home testing, do your own curve at home

that's my 2 cents.

oh and I saw the invoice and saw that they used IDEXX lab - some of my friends as well me, have had issues with the test results from this lab - going forward ask them to send it to Antech - they have a better track record of test results.

Just an observation.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Thanks, I didn't ask for the curve nor did we talk about it previously so if they try to sneak a charge in on me for it I'll be a little bit angry.

I'll keep that in mind if he needs blood testing again but I think they got the results from it back already, we'll see.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

I would not agree with that but will say that all labs....all tests can have glitches. That is why i stress so strongly not to count on any one value to diagnose any disease. Re-check and look for repeatability.

Also, most vets have accounts at one lab - not two - so you typically cannot request a specific lab.

 

Re: Adopted an ill cat. * Scooter is staying @ the vets

Back home with Scooter. They didn't end up doing the curve because of the issues you guys mentioned above (high stress environment, etc). We opted to do the fructosamine test instead, and the results will be back as well as the IDEXX stuff tomorrow. So that was another $64. I'll be getting photocopies of the results in the mail.

So for now we still don't have a 100% sure diagnosis but Dr. Oz nodded when I asked if he thought it was diabetes. He had small amounts of glucose in his urine and a minor UTI but they both were likely stress induced so we'll keep an eye on him. In the meantime we talked about treatment options and we are going to go with Lantus and home BG testing to determine the proper dose. He also needs a dental ASAP but I will try to brush him as often as I can in the meantime.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * 99% certainty diabetic

Please note on my Dental Health section linked below that you do NOT want to start trying to train a cat to accept brushing until AFTER he gets his teeth cleaned. If he has any painful spot in his mouth, you will just set this up to be a painful/negative experience. It is hard enough as it is to get cats to accept toothbrushing....we need to make sure that we do it only after the mouth gets a clean bill of health. So...hold off on that for now.

http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatf ... tal_Health

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * 99% certainty diabetic

Alright, thanks.

It's not too bad, he's just got a bit of swelling/redness around the gums. My sister is a registered CDA so I know how it works lol.

I won't be able to have the dental done for a while unfortunately. I hate to put it off but this has hit me really hard all at once... I'm unemployed so it's tough. :YMSIGH:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Results in from the test today - yep, diabetes.

fructosamine was 538
glucose was 333 (18.5 mmol, this is with stress, but after diet change)

I'm picking up the Lantus prescription when I get back on the 26th and hopefully getting that and my testing kit from Celine. I'll have the exact paperwork from the blood test when I get back too.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

No worries, this is do-able. we'll teach you. Would you read the post below - several of us have just given her a lot of good information on Lantus.

May Have to ReHome Diabetic Cat

by the way, would you post what the starting dose is that the vet suggests before you give a shot tonight? most cats only need to start with 1 unit, and then with lantus we wait 5-7 days before adjusting doses. if he needs a dose adjustment (which nearly every cat does) we only adjust by .25 units at a time. vets are primarily accustomed to using other insulins and adjustments are made differently. many vets suggest adjusting by 1 unit at a time and that can easily lead to too much insulin. i'm not faulting vets. many don't have much experience with feline diabetes and many who do are new to using lantus.

we'll help you with the dosing. all of us here do feline diabetes 24/7 365 days a year. cats who get on Lantus early in their diabetes and follow the Tight Regulation Protocol developed in Australia have an excellent track record of remission. i don't recall the exact number, but it's something over 80%. we can teach you how to do that.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Not going to be shooting until I get back from xmas holidays on the 26th, I'll let you know what the dose regimen is when I get back. My landlord will be feeding him over the holidays

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Hi Dr Lisa
Thanks for the comments about the litter. Oh now, I'm confused. I was under the impresson that the clay was cakey in the intestines, etc. I did read your litter info on your website a while back but I think I read something since then and so now I'm confused.

I must say I absolutely love the green bag of WBCL (and I haven't even tried the multi cat formula, and if that's even better--wow, cuz the green kind is GREAT! Super light, doesn't crumble, much much easier to scoop and feel like things are clean. Yes, the clay gets massively stuck to the pan and scooper especially if you accidentally crack open a chunk.

I have not noticed any dust, but then maybe I haven't noticed. I keep the litter box in a big walk in closet so maybe it's just not entering the rest of my place from there. I'll keep an eye out. I have a Miele vacuum which was the best cat-cleaning purchase I've ever made since it sucks up everything.

Jaguar, hope things are better. too bad you are not closer, I would help you out if you were in NYC and I would donate a carrier to you, too. If you just reach out a little more you might be able to get more support, both with supplies and help. Glad to hear that kitty is finally eating the wet. Yes, I think they sniff their nose at it for as long as they can get away with it and then just one day simply succumb. I have a foster cat who was only on dried organic and refused to even sniff the expensive low carb, no grain kinds. Now he gobbles it up. At first I was sprinkling a few crunchies on it to get him to eat the crunchies, then also some freeze dried chicekn (Luv a littles) and also some Forti-Flora probiotic powder. All those things made him eat it and now I don't have to sprinkle any of it on there. Also, I've tried to limit feedings to twice a day so the cats are hungry and grateful for any grub when they can finally eat (rather than feeding them whenever I go into the kitchen.)

good luck and thanks for spending the time to come to this site and work on trying to make it work with Scooter even though he's not the lovebug you'd hoped. He's gone thru a lot and he may be thinking that YOU'RE not the lovebug he'd wanted, or he's simply afraid to get too close since he's alreayd been dumped before. So give it time if you are able...you are already doing the right thing by him so sounds like in your heart you are giving the little guy a chance.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

My hat is off to you for stepping up and getting things figured out. Kazi's diagnosis came after 11 years of owning and loving her...not sure I would have been so willing to make it work with a cat I had no real relationship with. In all honesty I think we are more tightly bonded than we ever were before the pokes began for her. I hope the same happens for you and your kitty - you will be amazed at how much better he feels once you get his BG under control. I would be willing to bet his personality staarts to shine for you soon. =)

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Thanks, we might be working on borrowed time here, my landlord says GET RID OF THE CAT because the litter box still smells if no one is home to clean it every day (like when I was gone over Christmas). I just can't wait for DCIN to send the Lantus to me so I will have to pay for the first prescription and a cheap meter just so we can get started. :YMSIGH:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Have you been in touch with Celine about the Lantus and meter?

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Yes. She sent the meter yesterday but shipping is soooo slow, I don't expect to get it for another 3 weeks and I just can't wait that long. Even if I have to buy a new meter and return it when I get hers... I just need it now.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

As far as your landlord goes, here's a coupon that was posted in The Supply Closet for Free Litter after the rebate. It says it is good for people that don't scoop as much. Maybe, you could get it and use it on the days or weekends when you are gone. Just a thought.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Unfortunately this is going to happen with a litter box of any cat, diabetic or not if it isn't cleaned at least daily. There are 13 cats here and 15 litter boxes, all of which are cleaned at least twice day. Yes, I spend a great deal of my day scooping litter boxes, and sweeping up litter and fur around the house but that is what I signed up for when I adopted my cats. Although, because of keeping my litter boxes clean, my cats don't go outside of the boxes and on several occassions from several different friends I have been paid the highest compliment that a cat owner of multiple cats can hear "I know you have a lot of cats, but your house doesn't smell catty!"

Cat ownership just involves daily little box duty. If we need to be away for even one night we either have a friend stop by to feed and scoop boxes or we hire someone to do it.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

I just send you another email R.

Unfortunately that coupon cannot be used in Canada.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Yeah I understand this, but because we are new to the area we have no friends/family nearby (my aunt just moved away) to help with the litter box. I will see what I can do about hiring someone to do it but I'm still a bit weary of someone coming into my house or taking Scooter to their house... plus the fact that he needs injections and the glucose testing... maybe I will just board him at the vet.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

I knoiw money is tight so this might not be an option, but when Cello was diagnosed and the litter box was gross I gave in and bought a litter robot (amazing self cleaning litter box) it is the only one that gets flawless reviews and I love it. It was $400 dollars though, so NOT cheap. I asked my whole family to pitch in to buy it instead of giving me Birthday/Christmas gifts. But I literally haven't cleaned the litter box in 2 months now. Just change a bag in a drawer once a week and it self cleans after ever single use, no smell, perfect for an apartment and great for diabetic cats that go a lot, since it cleans each time.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

That's pretty cool but I'm sure Scooter would clog one of those full in 2-3 days. Not really much more economical than scooping daily for me at the moment. I will look into one when I find employment though.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. Test results in.

Okay . So I got Scoot's Lantus today. 5x 3ml pens, it was about $105. I also got him a Bayer Contour meter, strips, lancets.. and some syringes.

I tested the meter once on myself and my boyfriend to get comfy with it. I tested 5.7 and he 5.9. I tested Scooter and he was 19.1 (344) after eating !!! He squirmed a bit, bf had to restrain him a little, but it was easy peasy, got a reading on the first test lol. I'm a natural! He doesn't mind the lancet device at all either so I can use that to poke him

Now should I continue testing and do what I can of a curve, or start with a low dose and go from there?

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Welcome to the Vampire Club!!! And on your first try!!!

A curve isn't going to tell you much at this point as Lantus needs to build up a shed, and that normally takes about 3-5 days for the dose to "settle".

I would start him on a nice low dose, either .5u or 1u twice a day, make sure you test before food and shots as well as trying to get a +6 (which should be right around his nadir). And any additional tests you can get in just to see how the dose is working for him, as well as establish a routine for testing. Now is a good time to pick when you want his shots to be a Lantus likes them as close to 12 hours apart as you can get.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Woo thanks Was easier than I thought it would be, everyone psyched me into thinking that it was gonna be some nightmarish process.. but it was over in all of 60 seconds lol.

I think I'll do an 11/11 schedule... gonna suck to wake up at 5 am to test because I don't think I can do it alone yet, but we'll see. BF is getting better, he used to tell me about how he wanted to be a doctor and I told him this was a good time to get some experience with diabetes... and he liked that

I think I'll start at 1U, my vet suggested something like that too. Here we go.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

LOL caring for a diabetic cat was just the push I needed to go back to college to become a Vet tech...If you have to do it alone and Scooter gets too squirmy, just turn him into a kitty burrito, wrap him up in a big bath/beach towel so only his head is showing. And don't forget the low carb treats for every test it won't be long and he will come running for those ear pokes, because in his mind ear poke equals treats.

For Musette the magic treat was low fat cream cheese, for Maxwell it was a good long brushing, so just got to find what Scooter really loves and use that as a reward for those ear pokies.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

LOL... My vet told me I should look into going to vet school... I had already done so much research on diabetes he really didn't have to explain much to me, my BF was asking questions while *I* answered and the vet nodded away! It started with my obsession with pet rats and their health/husbandry/genetics etc... bless them. :smile:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

LOL For me it started with pet rats, moved on to horse (raised Arabians for years) now FD cats. My vet is still trying to talk me into going on to be a vet, once I get through tech. But at my age, don't think I'm up to that much schooling and really the reason for the Vet Tech degree at all is to work in rescue, my husband and I have both talked about buying a place in the country and land so we can open a rescue for sugarcats as well as a bed and breakfast for "special needs" animals.

We have both fallen head over heels in love with our sugarcats, and while we love all our cats it has already been decided that as our herd thins their places will be filled with more sugarcats. Like kittens, love cats....lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Hahaha... I'm still young... but I screwed up so bad in high school, it would be a loooot of work for me to get into vet school and I'm not so sure it's what I want to do anyways. I'm still deciding.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

ROFL...It only took me 47 years to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up...lol

But I did realize finally that I am the happiest when I'm working with animals, from mucking out stalls to testing and shooting a diabetic cat, as long as it is an animal I'm happy...after 30 years of working retail if I never have to deal with the general public again I'm happy...lol.

Afterall animals don't care if you put on make-up this morning, have the right shoes to go with your outfit, or when you last colored and curled your hair...they take you in your jammies, with dirt under your fingernails and your hair yanked back in a ponytail...and still think you are just perfect in their eyes.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Oh yeah... and they don't talk back LOL!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

lol I see you haven't met my three siamese boys...lol They never shut up unless they are eating or sleeping...lol. Our eldest meezer we have nicknamed the Air Raid Siren he is so loud about demanding food at mealtimes. I don't even set an alarm clock anymore since Amon Ra is so much better at the job...hehe

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Well... I'd rather listen to a cat meowing all day than people complaining haha Scooter can get vocal sometimes but only when he's REALLY hungry.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

hey - great job! glad the testing went easy. i want to encourage you to do some reading - the yellow starred stickies at the top of the lantus forum. you don't need to remember all of it, but at least reading through it there will be parts that will stay with you. i've reread them a ton of times and i still pick up a little bit.

especially read the one on taking care of lantus - it's expensive enough you want to know how to take care of it so it lasts as long as possible. also the one on the Tight Regulation Protocol - although that one is best with someone helping explain.

the one thing about your shot schedule to consider - lantus dosing is based upon the lowest point that a cat gets to in a cycle. we try to catch that lowest point. in general, cats go lowest mid-cycle, around 5-7 hours after the shot, although every cat is different. i test my cat preshot and 3 hours after his shot (+3) and either +5 or +6. from collecting data I know that's when he goes the lowest.

the routine that works best is to test, then feed, then shoot the insulin while scooter's face is in his bowl. at the beginning it might take you a half hour to do that routine, but as you get experience it'll just take a couple of minutes. the reason i'm mentioning it is because if you feed then test, the BG # will be higher because of the food.

so test, feed & shoot in that order.

it's also most likely to see numbers that need attention in the first half of the cycle. so if you are shooting at 11/11, you will still want to get at least one test after the evening shot if at all possible. many (most?) cats go lower at night. just something to consider with the schedule and how late you can stay up to monitor. sometimes i've done 6am/6pm, and that lets me check punkin easily until 11pm - so 5 hours after his evening shot.

1 unit is a good starting dose for most cats. even though the protocol says to hold the dose for the first 5-7 days, you do still want to be testing. some cats are very responsive to insulin and you don't want to be giving insulin without testing, imo.

i'd encourage you to begin posting in the Lantus Tight Reg forum tomorrow so we can help you learn how Lantus works and interpret how scooter's body reacts to the insulin. great job getting going! WOOT!

Lantus Tight Regulation Protocol Insulin Support Group

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Thanks, I gave that a good read a while back but I'll refresh myself on it

How healthy is it to be feeding him on a 12/12 schedule? He is used to free feeding throughout the day but I'm sure in time I can switch him over..

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?



LOOOOL... I didn't do it mom, I swear!!!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

You don't have to feed only twice a day. I don't use lantus but it seems to work more effectively when multiple small meals are spread throughout the day.
Carl

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I see. I just didn't want food to skew the nadir or whatever. Should I hold off food from +6-8?

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I believe many lantus users try to keep most of the feedings in the first six hours of the cycle. As long as you keep track of the timing of the food, then you can account for the numbers that follow. Look for the BG boost from food to show up 1-2 hours after eating.
Carl