New - adopted an ill cat. Where to go from Health.

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Makes sense, thanks

AMPS was 19.1, gave 1U in his side followed by a nice meal. Was going for 10:30, thought it would take longer than it did... but it didn't.

It's been easy going so far but I don't think I could do it by myself yet. Scooter isn't really scared of any part of the process, he just doesn't like to be held in one place for too long. He tries to leave if I touch him in any way that isn't petting his butt. :lol:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

What a cutie!! What was in the bag that he tore open? :lol:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

A whole bag of catnip @-) It's all over the carpet

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

No advice here, just wanted to say that you are doing a great job. I was sad after reading your first posts and thought Scooter may have to find a new home - and he is sooo cute. I'm glad you have been able to figure everything out. Just do the best you can given the resources you have available. I would do almost anything for my cat, but I also have to remind myself that whatever choices I make there still has to be a good quality of life for both the cat and myself. It sounds like you are finding a good balance that will work for you. Best of luck with Scooter. And on his behalf - thank you for taking care of him

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

You are doing an amazing job! I am glad that Scooter is bring co-operative.

I have to say it again Scooter is one handsome kitty!

He must have really loved that catnip treat!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Musette is on Lantus as was Maxwell, I feed all of my cats 4 times a day. Now Musette is on an atypical dosing protocol because she wasn't newly diagnoised when I adopted her and she was already a DKA survivor. So you can't go by her spreadsheet to see exactly when I feed in relation to her shots.

But that said the routine here is test Musette at 6:45am, fed all the cats by 7am, then fed again at Musette's +6, again at her pmps at 7pm then set out a frozen meal for all of them at 11 pm after I get the last spot check on Musette and head off to bed.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I'm sure Scooter and I can work something out, he is pretty good about eating most of the food I put out in one sitting.

13.0 at +2

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

most of us give pretty much all of the food in the first 3 hours, possibly 4. then we give no carb treats for any pokeys after that. i feed punkin 1 can of fancy feast low carb (chicken feast) with his shot, then 1/2 can at +3 (3 hours after his shot.) then he gets a small bit of chicken breast, plain baked or boiled, with his BG tests after that. you want most of the carbs to be in scooter's system in the early part of the lantus cycle.

punkin weighs 13+ lbs.

you will have much better numbers and an obvious curve if you follow something like that. if you feed within 2 hours of the next shot your number will be what we call "food influenced" and not let you know where the lantus truly is in its cycle. that makes a difference because we want to know the true non-food influenced numbers to be sure that it's safe to give the next dose.

there are a few people who give a little snack about +9 in every cycle if they have determined that their cat needs that - for example, some cats will vomit if they have a condition with too much acid in their stomach. we don't start people out doing that, normally, but use it as an option if their cat is having problems.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

That's what I figured. He just finished up the last of the food I gave him after his first shot so I will just start giving him a little bit more so he has enough to snack for 3-4 hours. Thanks :smile:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Yay...this is getting to be a happy thread. I'm so glad the testing is going well, you've got Lantus and the BF is participating. Good stuff. Now you can post over in Lantus every day and people will continue to help you and get to know Scooter. Good job Jaguar!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

You and Scooter have come a long way in a short time, and it is so incredible what you are doing for him!
You probably know that there are two forums for Lantus users? There is the TR forum which a couple of folks have pointed out. There is also the Relaxed forum.
You will great great advice in either place specific to lantus. I'd suggest you take a look at both of them, see what they are like and then choose the forum that will work best for Scooter, and just as importantly, works best for you.
Carl

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Thank you both, I haven't really been able to find a definition of what "relaxed" Lantus is though?

7.5 at +4... is it supposed to work this fast? :shock: I tested by myself too, woo! Had to poke him about 10 times cause he kept squirming, but... we got it in the end

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Relaxed Lantus means not necessarily following the tight regulation Protocol for Lantus, described in the stickies.

This is useful for when the cat hasn't read the manual on how to be a feline diabetic! :lol: ... like Spitzer

It may mean finding alternate means for monitoring the cat's diabetes if blood testing is not being done for some reason. For example, using urine ketone/glucose test strips to identify ketones &/or glucose (less precise than blood testing), amount of water drunk in a day, behavior monitoring, and weight changes.

It may mean finding alternate means of dosing the insulin besides every 12 hours. Some may need to dose every 8 hours. Some cats have very steep or erratic curves and splitting a dose into smaller amounts has been helpful for some of those situations. For cats with extreme food spikes, a small supplement of very short acting insulin may be used.

If your cat is newly diagnosed, following the tight regulation protocol with regular blood testing may be your best bet at getting the cat to a diet-controlled state.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Ahh, makes sense. I'll stick to tight regulation for now, I think with the two of us on board we'll be able to manage it :smile:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

He is beautiful, gorgeous, and handsome Thanks for the picture. I love him He looks like such a sweetheart.

I am away from the house at work for about 10 1/2 hours a day, so I feed at AMPS, and then again at +1. I set out two frozen cans of Fancy Feast (frozen in Rubbermaid Containers not the cans themselves :lol: ) and set a timed feeder to feed 1/4 can of Friskies at +5 and again at +7. My cat is on Levemir, so his nadir is closer to +8, so I feed a little later than those on Lantus. I also have two cats (one diabetic and one not), so I want to make sure there is enough in case my civvie gets hungry and eats a lot and my diabetic needs food because of a low number on the same day. Then at PMPS, when I return home, I feed, and feed again at about +3 and again at about +7.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

i think the name "tight regulation" scares people - but truly, it's about learning how lantus works and following the dosing guidelines that have been established as the best way to get a cat off of insulin. i'm sold on it, personally, and don't find it restrictive or undoable. lots of us do it, so obviously, it's got a lot of plusses.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

It's kind of tough on a 12/12 schedule, i have no routine in my life and sometimes I stay up late and sleep all day etc. so this will be a tough transition for me.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

12/12 is not just a TR thing....all of the insulins work on a 12/12 schedule. But if your off an hour or so you don't have to get all worked up. We all just do the best we can.
Lori

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Oh boy is he cute!

I was trying to think about how you can combat the litter box issue that your landlord seems to have. I am guessing that you live in his/her house, mabye in a seperate residence?
Now that I have 2 cats I have 2 boxes, although they have a tendancy of using the larger one in the laundry room. I keep a deoderizor near each box that is supposed to absorb the smell (and it does, to a point, Dallas' poops stink!) Its a plastic jar with holes in the topp; inside are little beads. I have an apple scented one in the laundry room and a fruity one in my bathroom. I also use a bucket to put the scoops in. I put 2 bags from the grocery store in there and scoop each night. I usually take the bags out each trash day (but I forgot this am, we have pick up Mon & Thursday). Since I forgot this morning, the bags will have to go down to the garage and into the trash can. Unfortuately, the smell will wiff out when I open the can lid between now and Monday.

I bought an air purifier from Amazon (it's a True Air for just under $50) for my office. I'd put it in the laundry room if there was a place I could plug it in, as it works so well! I have a smaller one that I plug into the kitchen, same brand, that is great with kitchen smells. It would work for pet smells too - check out Bed Bath & Beyond. That smaller unitl has charcoal filters that you replace every so often; the larger one has a permanent filter that you vaccume.

Good luck! He is so cute!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

was just checking in! what a great first day curve!!! Good luck! looks like Lantus worked well for him!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

'Nother thought for the litterbox issue - pick up 1 or more room air cleaners with an activated charcoal or zeolite filtration pad and put it near the litterbox. Both charcoal and zeolite adsorb (bind with, not absorb as in soak up) the chemicals that make urine stink.

There may be some furnace filters that include either or those ingredients, if you have a separate furnace.

Placing one air cleaner near the doorway may help too, as may ensuring the door sweep (the flexible gasket at the bottom of a door) is fitting close to the floor, or adding a door sweep if there isn't one (it helps with fire safety by reducing oxygen flow in or out, if you have to convince the landlord).

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I live in a basement rental unit and the furnace for the whole house was in the same room as the litter box, so I guess the smell was blowing upstairs where my landlord is (even though I can't smell it, even in the room...) There is really nowhere else to put the box because of how big it is, but it's crammed in the bathroom for now. I will try an air filter when the refund for the carrier goes through... yeah the one I just bought... forgot to tell you guys that when we were taking Scooter out to the car to go to the vet, the whole thing collapsed and he fell out and nearly took off under the hedge. ohmygod_smile

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Cheap option: take close knit socks or tightly woven pillowcase and fill with some baking soda. Set between furnace air intake and source of odor. It, too, will adsorb some of the odor.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

You've already gotten great advice :thumbup

I want to point out that your spreadsheet seems incorrect. Your SS shows numbers in mmol but there is no sheet tab for the US converted numbers. Did you download the US/World template from the thread in Tech? The US/World template has two tabs: one for mmol numbers and one that automatically converts mmol into mg/dl. You just need to fill out the mmol tab as you get bg readings from your cat. Both tabs will appear in your SS once it is published so that anyone on FDMB can view your cat's bg in whatever format they are most comfortable with.

The SS instructions have just been updated with new corrected templates: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50130 I suggest downloading the new US/World template, put it back into your Goggle Documents, reinput in the few bg numbers you have so far, and republish the SS. Then you can delete the old SS from your list of Google Documents.

Also it would greatly help FDMB members if you could add the name of the insulin to the title of your SS :smile: Keeps people from asking over and over again what insulin your cat is on. "Scooter's numbers on Lantus" is simple and easy :smile:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Thanks, I fixed it. The old one was returning a conversion error so I deleted the mg/dl page.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

lol so Scooter has finally found out where our bed was hiding, and because we sleep with the door open, he comes in every night now to harass us and/or sleep a little. He wakes me up 3-4 times a night but it doesn't bother me because he was too weak on his hind legs to even jump on the couch before, so this is a nice sign of improvement :smile:

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

That sounds great!

Sometimes when Cini wakes me up in the middle of the night I go ahead and do a blood glucose reading on him just so I know he's OK and not waking me up because he's not feeling well.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

there are supplements that can really turn around the hind leg neuropathy. i give punkin the first step one - cosequin. you can buy it at petco and dosing is by weight. i think under 10lbs is 1 capsule, open and sprinkle on food. over 10 lbs is 2 capsules - i just mix it in punkin's food once a day (2 capsules once a day - he's 13+lbs) and he eats it fine.

punkin has a special condition called acromegaly that causes some ongoing pain, so we have him doing acupuncture and that vet acupuncturist gave him chinese herbs. i don't know if it's the acupuncture, herbs or cosequin but he's been jumping onto tables that i haven't seen him do in at least a couple of years. cosequin is somehow similar to the Glucosamine Chondritin that people take for their joints.

a lot of people use cosequin for their kitters - and if it's not strong enough there are 2 stronger concentrations of the same thing, or something similar - dausequin and adequan. there are also several people on the lantus TR forum that use those that could advise you on it. i'd probably start with the cosequin and see what happens. so the possibility that scooter's leg strength will improve is great.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

He just gets hungry in the middle of the night I think, he comes in and uses his head to push my feet off the edge of the bed and wake me up... lol

I will look for cosequin but there are no Petcos here, thank you

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

pretty sure i've heard people say they've bought it from amazon.com too.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Whoo that's pretty pricy, don't think I can afford that right now unfortunately :S I wonder if there's some sort of human equivalent I could adjust dose for him.

Going to do what I can of a curve for Scooter tomorrow and see where we're at with the Lantus right now. His preshots have been 250-350 so I'm not sure if that's ideal or not.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

mmmm, i wonder if you're seeing the same thing we got. i paid $18 for 50 pills - so a 25 day supply.

when you start Lantus you want to wait 5-7 days for the shed to build (deposit within the body) and then you can see what the dose does in the body. i haven't looked at Scooter's ss today, but am thinking it hasn't been 5 days yet. i'll look in a sec.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I saw $30 + shipping for 80 capsules on Amazon, on its own it doesn't seem like much but $15 a month for this and $30 a month for that adds up really fast.

Tomorrow will be day 5.

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

shoot - i'm backwards on that. those are for arthritis, not neuropathy. can we rewind and try again?

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

ok, correcting that - methyl B12 is for neuropathy, not the cosequin, dausequin and adequan. my mistake.

you're finishing day 4, so i'd give it another day or two before changing the dose. When the lantus is injected it forms a micro-precipitate in the body. that precipitate is called the "shed," "deposit" or "depot" - and it slow releases over time. that's one of the features of Lantus that helps a cat have a flatter cycle without zooming between highs and lows. they feel better when their BG isn't zinging high and then low. anyway, the size of the shed corresponds to the size of the dose, so at first you have the shot being injected in, but you don't have much of the precipitate yet to be slow-releasing. it takes about 5-7 days when you start lantus to "build the shed" and form that deposit that then slow-releases. You'll see what the dose really does in another day or two.

with lantus the dosing decisions are made from the lowest point in each cycle that the cat gets to. the preshot test weighs in, but most of the weight of the decision on dosing comes from the mid-cycle tests. a lot of cats get lower at night than during the day, for who knows what reason. we like people to try to get one mid-cycle test during the day and one at night to help us figure out what the dose is doing. a lot of people get one before they go to bed. it's also important for keeping the cat safe.

i'd really encourage you to start a new post tomorrow in the Lantus TR Support group. you'll find it's a supportive group and others will be able to help you learn how the whole thing works as well. these long posts get hard for people to wade through and find the essential information to be able to give advice.

you're really doing great! kudos to you! and happy new year!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!! and a Happy New Year to !! :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

Thanks, I will start a thread in the Lantus forum and work with them to adjust his dose if/when necessary

And thank you! I got to sleep in today and the SO did Scooter's test and shot all by himself!

 

Re: New - adopted an ill cat. * When to start Lantus?

I've spent some time reading through the Lantus TR forum and I'm not really sure if moving there is going to work out for me. I'm just not comfortable with it.

I really appreciate the help and support I've received on here so far, but being sorted/moved into a specific insulin support group and having to conform to its operation isn't something I want to deal with right now. It's hard enough that I have to care for a newly diagnosed diabetic cat when my time and finances are stretched thin, but to have to deal with all sorts of wacky forum groups and rules and regulations and post formats and so on just to get some advice is making me want to run and hide.

Maybe I will try relaxed. Ideas?

 

You should do what you are most comfortable with as far as which forum to post on.
The TR forum has lots of very experienced long-time (some with more than one kitty) members. It isn't essential that you follow TR to post there, and it's the busiest forum on the board. If you explain what you are or aren't comfortable with, there are good people there who will help you do what you can.
The RL forum is also full of experience, and many who post there are in the same boat you are in. It just isn't as busy as the TR forum. You can find out what time of day most people who use that forum are online so you'll know when your questions are most likely to be seen.
You can post questions and ask advice in both of them for that matter.

Or you can continue to post here. You've gotten a lot of good advice and feedback in your Health posts. That will continue to be the case if you stick around here.

What you have done so far, from the day you posted first, up until now, is incredible. You've got a lot of people really pulling for you and for Scooter.

You're part of the family now. You can post wherever you feel will be most helpful for you and Scooter.
Happy New Year,
Carl

 

Thank you Carl, I just don't understand some things about Lantus TR - like why the forum runs on single daily posts. Because of my erratic schedule, I don't have the time nor enough data on most days to make a worthwhile post there. It makes much more sense to my scatterbrain to have a single thread where I can post little updates or ask questions when I need it, and log Scooter's progress on his SS at the end of the day, like I've been doing. Maybe I will stay on health and move when the time comes.

ETA: Thank you for the praise but I don't think I could have handled this at least financial wise without the help of DCIN, my negative credit card balance is still hanging over my head every day but so goes being a teenager (well... not as of today) on a fixed low income... I wanted to keep him, I wanted to treat this disease... but my family said "just have him put down", "just take him to the shelter, you cant afford it"... and it's true I can't afford it on my own, and it's hard being surrounded by such negativity sometimes, but... I made ends meet with a bit of help. :smile:

I also edited my username to better fit forum norms. Hope I don't confuse anyone.

 

Scooter's preshots were low today. Will test him a few times before bed to make sure he's not going down too far, and hopefully between running errands tomorrow I can do a curve, maybe. Then maybe I can muster up the strength to post on the Lantus TR.

 

(((ry))) you're doing fine! no worries - while we have a "way" that the posts are set up on the TR forum, people will teach you. it's not hard but it's set up so that everyone who needs attention gets it and no one's needs get overlooked. everyone who arrives there is coming from here and learning a ton of new things. we hold everyone's hand as they learn and you'll have people cheering from you from the beginning.

and happy birthday!!! no more teenager, eh? my daughter is 19 for another couple of months - i'm amazed that you're taking care of a diabetic cat. she's phobic about just about everything - still hasn't ever had a blood test, so i never ask her to test punkin. it would probably make her barf! hahahaha. but i'm not really kidding. she won't sit on the sofa near the testing equipment! :shock: i'm tipping my hat to you - you're already doing stuff that scares people a lot older than you.

until a couple of weeks ago there was only one lantus forum. the relaxed forum was set up as an alternative for people who felt like they needed another option. i've got a definite bias toward the TR forum because i've seen how successful it is to follow the protocol. the protocol is like a recipe - if you see numbers like this, change the dose to this. and while it looks straightforward, it helps to have people with more experience telling you what to do. so you don't need to know a thing to land there and you'll find people who will just tell you when to change scooter's dose and when to hold it. i want to encourage you because it gives you and scooter the best chance to get him off of insulin.

but, whatever you decide, you'll have plenty of people to help you and support you in helping scooter here on FDMB.

for tonight, don't worry about it - celebrate your birthday and enjoy your last night as a teenager! see you tomorrow!

julie

 

Thank you - I totally understand peoples' issues with needles and pokey things, but... the more you stress yourself over it, the worse it is for both of you. I could poke a needle into myself without second thought. I've never had to, though. :lol:

I will try the TR forum, if I'm straying too far from protocol I'll move myself over... we'll see I guess :smile:

 

you'll do fine.

and if it makes you feel better, i don't follow the protocol with punkin. i've learned how it all works and i adjust for what he needs considering his special circumstances. lots of people do that - in fact maybe everyone.

and in honor of your birthday, i've brought out my special friends! they don't come out for just any occasion.



it's a 20 wootie salute! happy birthday!

 

Woot!! Thanks!! Nothing I'd rather be doing on my birthday than eating Chef Boyardee and poking my cat every hour... okay... I can think of a few things, but... :lol:

 

:lol: i'm sure you can think of SOMETHING! ;-)

and fwiw - i just looked at scooter's ss and if i were you, i'd head for bed. even those of us with a diabetic cat need to sleep sometimes!

i'm headed there - sleep tight!

 

Hahaha... I got to sleep in today so I'm not ready for bed yet... gonna keep an eye on Scooter till I do go to snooze though, cause this is the lowest he's been yet... peace of mind you know.

Good night, sleep tight!

 

hmmm, when you say that, my guess is when i look at scooter's ss i'm not seeing every test, is that right? the ss is invaluable for being able to give you a hand, so when you get a chance would you please add in whatever test #'s you have? scooter's been on the lantus long enough that we should be able to tell how he's doing on this dose now and decide if he needs an adjustment.

 

Ry,
I thought I'd speak to a few of your points of concern....

Lantus TR - We also aren't able to follow the strict TR protocol but still post in Lantus TR. No one gets upset with me, they help me do what I CAN do and help me figure out how to do the best I can with my limitations.

Daily threads (condos) - The daily threads gives the rest of us a quick shot of how YOUR day is going and answer any questions you may have that day. When the threads get long like this one, LOTS AND LOTS of good info is lost AND questions go unanswered. We link the previous day's thread - if there's an outstanding issue, we can follow it that way. This isn't just for YOUR benefit, it's also for those new people that come here later and start reading. People tend to read shorter threads more often than long threads.

Commentary - I just LOVE LOVE LOVE your post:

I can't see the first posting right now but if I remember correctly - you didn't really feel like Scooter WAS 'your' cat. He's such a striking BEAUTIFUL cat - the pictures of him looking at you tell me HE says he 'belongs to you' too....

BIG HUGE HUG!!! and Happy Birthday!

 

Julie - those are all of my tests. I see now that some are not showing up on the mg/dl page, while they are there on the mmol/l page. This is why I removed the conversion page last time - it could refuse to convert a vital reading and someone might miss it if they didn't look at both pages. I know how to use docs and fixed it on my page now, but other people might not. The formulas are only missing in the very beginning of the chart - the rest is fine.

And thank you - it's so strange how some forums operate on "keep it in one thread"... that's what I've gotten used to I guess, it's unusual for me to be encouraged to make so many threads. I'll try it when I'm ready.

 

My gift indeed... lol

 

Wow - he's gorgeous!!!
I'm glad things are getting better for you guys and that your BF is participating.

Just a plug for posting on Lantus board - it does seem intimidating at first, but it's really not. Though you have gotten a lot of feedback on this very long thread here on Health - this isn't the norm.

On Lantus you'd start a new thread daily with your AMPS. Then you post on that thread until the end opf the day. Easy. People will get to know you and your cat and be able to help you when you've got an issue. That board/group has the most traffic also. They know the insulin and the way it works best. It is critical to keep your ss updated so you can get the best help.

You are doing a great job!!!

 

i hear ya - i used to be on a message board that got all excited if you edited your post, as though that created a lot of work for someone. here you are encouraged to edit it. just a different way.

the basic idea is that the posts are shorter so that the people who give advice can find your essential information without wading through too much. we link our posts from day to day so that you can easily look back on someone's posts and get previous info if you need to. it makes sense - we have somewhere around 50 people posting on that forum every day and if everyone has 1 post they all stay on the front page so no one gets missed. the folks who have the most experience and are willing to give advice on the heavier duty stuff - i think try to look at most every cat every day. and of course, with everyone being a volunteer people still have "regular" life they are trying to do - jobs, families, etc.

i haven't looked at scooter's ss again yet, so i'll take a peek and see if the rest of the tests are showing up. thanks for explaining what's going on with it.

just saw your picture - ohmygosh scooter is gorgeous! and i love the christmas tree scarf!