New and nervous

Hi there,


My name is Marilyn - I was reasearching feline diabetes and happened across this message board. I'm sure I will find excellent information.

I have 5 "hairy children" (cats) and my oldest boy, Chance, was diagnosed with feline diabetes about 5 weeks ago. My vet started him on Lantus 2 units twice a day. Initially his level was (if I remember correctly) about 512. The vet has had us come back once a week for glucose testing. He's also raised the dosage quite a bit.

Week 2 levels were 460; upped dosage to 3 units BID
Week 3 levels were 420; upped dosage to 4 units BID
Week 4 levels jumped up to 450; upped dosage to 5 units BID
Week 5 levels were 378; upped dosage to 6 units BID
And then today when we went, Chancie's level was 315 and the vet upped dosage to 7 units BID.

I am kind of freaking out because I am scared to go to 7 - I am afraid of his levels getting too low. The vet told me most cats don't have to go that high, but he wants to just go up this last time and test next THursday and take it from there. When Chancie was first diagnosed, he weighed 11 pounds 1 ounce and today he is 12 pounts 15 ounces (he's not fat, just very long and solid). He is definitely not urinating as much and he's more playful and more like himself since starting the injections.

Has anyone gone through this before? I am a nervous wreck because he is such a gentle soul and I am trying to do everything I can for him. If you have followed me this far, I thank you.

 

Welcome to the best place you could be .I have been here for 6 week and I am doing so much better then I ever thought possible, Trey is doing awesome and you will to Just what ever you need Put it in the subject line you will get so much help. They are great .... I was a wreck the first 2 weeks but we have come a long long way and you will too So just ask for help and you will get it ok > Once again welcome LOL Kath :lol: ;-) :mrgreen:

 

Hi there

welcome to the FDMB.

A few questions,
Is your vet raising doses based on pre-shot number?
Do you have other numbers for any given cycle?
Has your vet tested for ketones?

Are you home testing at home?
What food is Chance eating?

I'm very concerned about your vets advice and how he/she is raising dose.
Has your vet tested your kitty for Acromegaly and other High dose conditions?
Here is a little info about that:
Acromegaly

I'm gonna try to get more Lantus eyes on your thread in regards to the dose, so if you can hang around - others also on this board will be by to help you out.

 

Marilyn it means alot to know if those levels were before a shot and before food. the most important levels to look at are the ones between shoots and about a hour or two without food. we call that the nadir. it is generally 4-7 hours since the last shot and it the lowest # your cat will have.
so you see why the timing is very important.
there could be so much wrong with this picture....but not if your vet is doing the curve and looking for the nadir.
We would strongly reccomend you stop letting your vet do the testing and let us teach you to test your little sugar baby yourself. we can totally get you started. please come back and talk to us about this. btw, not difficult,,,we ALL do it. and we wereALL freaked out at first.
welcome to the family.

 

Marilyn,
I'm going to throw some links at you to read through at your convenience.

First stop: If you're not home testing, it may be time learn about home testing.
A) It's safer for your kitty to be home tested with a human blood glucose meter daily, rather than once a week at the vets, where BG numbers are known to rise due to vet stress.
B) A common question asked to many of us in the beginning, would you shoot insulin blindly if Chance was your child?
I will tell you there are a lot of vets out there who would rather you bring in your kitty to their offices to be tested rather than you taking away business($$) from them and doing it yourself at home.
Home testing can be a little difficult at the beginning, but it does get easier. You'll also get lot of feedback on how to via this board.
Home testing keeps your kitty safe. Period. Home Testing Links

Second stop, please visit the Lantus forum and read some of the information stickies at the top. This one, "new to the group" will give you a guideline (scroll down to the curve chart) on when to do spot checks at home and how your kitty is doing on each cycle while on Lantus.
New To The Group

Next stop: Dr Lisa's Feline Nutition link. Tons of info plus how to safely transition your kitty to a low carb wet food diet and away from kitty crack (dry food, known to spike BG numbers and one of the major causes of feline diabetes.)
Dr Lisa's Feline Nutrition

Next stop: print these out. Better to be safe than sorry.
Jojo's Hypo Tool Kit
How To Treat Hypo

Please do stop by and help clear up some questions, ok?
Lots of help here for you just as there was and still is for a lot of us when we were new.

 

You should be nervous. Not because treating feline diabetes is difficult but because your vet's approach of using Lantus is close to dangerous.

Insulin doses should not be increased based on results from one test, which is what the results you posted look like was done. Lantus is a very good insulin, but it needs a slow, step up approach to dose to be most effective.

Please please read the best guide there is available for usage of Lantus in felines: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

And print out a copy for the vet.

See also: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link3.pdf which was compiled by an Australian vet hospital and vet.

Print that too. And home testing will put you in control and help you feel less nervous. I know it seems like a lot to do, but once you get the basics down, it's not as hard as at first.

The best thing you did was become nervous and seek out alternative advice. We're here for you. Good luck. Keep asking questions.

 

Can you also tell us what you are feeding him? It is very important before you change his diet to a low carb diet that you also lower his insulin dose considerably - down to 1 unit twice a day. Otherwise at his current dose there is a high probability of Chance becoming hypoglycemic.

Most cats on this list that are on Lantus are only on 1 or 2 units twice a day. Chance's current dose is extremely high unless there are some other medical issues going on.

Hometesting is the best way to determine how well his insulin and dose is working. It is not difficult to do and only takes a few seconds once you learn how. Hometesting is done with the same kind of glucose meters that a person would use. Glucose readings at a vet are not really accurate since stress will raise the BG (blood glucose) levels and most cats are stressed when at the vet's office.

 

Marilyn,

You have already gotten a ton of good information and others will be adding to it shortly I'm sure. So I'll just add my welcome to the family you are already in the best place that you never wanted to be in. Here you will find not only great info on how to help your baby but how to make all your babies the best kitties they can be. You soon will be an old hand at everything that seems so scary and confusing right now. Just remember to Breathe, its all going to be okay. If you need anything just post there is always someone around that is ready and willing to jump in and help.

Welcome
Mel & Muse (GA)

 

Wow, 7u twice a day! That seems like an awful lot! I agree with the other board users here, you need to do some home testing! Not only will this be far cheaper than going to the vet every week, but it will get kitty regulated better!

-Breayle and Jake

 

Hometesting is great Trey loves me and{ I do all the testing]DH use to get all the hugs now he comes to momma..You get that extra bond with them and they know you are helping them. After the first day of 20 pokes its a piece of cake It is the best thing you can do for them Trey was high and his vet started him on 3units and gave me this place to read up on diabetes Well we put him at 2 units in the first week he did go back to 2.25u back to 2u then down .25u and now he is .5u.He is doing so well diet means a lot too.We have only been here 6 weeks ....I wish I could tell you more but people here can...Get your meter and get poking girl You can do it...when you but the strips the meter will come with them....I have Free Style Lite works great need very little blood LOL Kath ;-) :mrgreen:


Remember to use your subject line you get quicker answers ADVICE DOSE HELP etc...

 

I am also new here, and far from an "expurrt" but i thought doses should NEVER be changed more than .5u at a time. The fact that your vet is raising a whole unit worries me.

 

Just letting you know, we hope you will come back to give an update on Chance.

The door is always opened!

 

Hello everyone,

Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction. I definitely have some reading material to go over this weekend. In response to some of the questions:

* I'm not home testing - the vet (who quite frankly I am really having 2nd thoughts about) never advised me to get a home test kit. Where could I get one? Are they expensive? I would have no problem whatsoever testing him at home. Honestly I just didn't realize that was an option until last night.

* I leave for work around 5:20am and give Chancie his insulin before I leave (roughly around 5:20-5:15am) when we go to the vet on Thursday's it's typically at 4:10pm. (so about 11 hours after his morning dosage)

* Since I have 4 other babies, they all eat the same food (I have been feeding them meow Mix Indoor formula for YEARS)

* When I brought him to the vet to be diagnosed (he had lost a ton of weight, was drinking/peeing excessively, etc) so the vet did a complete bloodwork screening on him. There were no keytones and everything except for the glucose levels was normal.

I am now just freaking out because I am scared that this vet is giving me wrong information. I did call the office today on my lunch break and wanted to triple check that I am supposed to be giving him 7 units BID and they confirmed that was correct. I am *SO* calling a different vet on Monday - but what should I do in the meantime? I don't have real children so my animals ARE my kids.

 

Hi
welcome back!

here is a link to get you going about meters.
It is a meter review, if you live in the states, you should be able to find any of these human meters at any pharmacy, Walmart, etc.
Consumer Reports Meter Reviews

To get you started with less expense, the Relion meters is inexpensive for strips, the meter itself runs around $12.
Usually it is the strips that are going to run a bit higher, but not as expensive as the vet's once a week testing.
But honestly, any meter is good to get you started.


First thing you want to do is get a meter as soon as possible. If that is a problem, we can hook you up possibly with a newbie kit

Do read up on the nutrition links provided earlier. That is also one of the first steps to taking control of diabetes.

If you're able to stick around or check back in later tonight, others will help you as well, ok?

 

Thank you SO much for the info Ronnie & Luna. I live in MA so I am going to Wal-Mart first thing tomorrow morning and getting a meter and strips. I was worried the meters would be a few hundred $$ but that's not a bad ball-park figure at all! I also plan on doing some digging on-line to see what other vets are in my area. I will do whatever I have to for the hairy kids (LOL).

I also am greatful for the links about the diet. I do feel kind of overwhelmed but, knowledge IS power so I better get reading. If you could just spare a quick prayer that I can help get this under control, I'd really appreciate itI'm trying to attach a picture of Chance, but I seem to be technologically challenged tonight,

 

oh he's adorable.

Has Chance had his shot tonight?
Will you be able to keep an eye on him?
Print out the hypo sheets too ok?
And come post here tonight if you need help.

I'm thinking/hoping the dry food (yes?) is keeping him safe (on the higher end) so yes to a meter as soon as you can.

 

ohmygod_smile Chance is Beautiful and so very glad you came back If there is anything I can do .I have only been here 6 weeks but listening to thiese peple made my life so much easier.My vet too didn`t want me to hometest but I did and she was a bit sour but I think se is coming round.Anyway I just told her I thought 3 units was too much and she said well if your not going to do what I tell you and I just said This is my babyand I have to feel good about what I am doing... I too have 4 cats 1 dog which is now all can food no dry and very few treats ...Sorry to ramble on just want you to feel less stressed ok LOL Kath

 

Marilyn so glad to see you back here! and also soooo glad you are willing to learn to test your baby at home. we'll definetly get to the bottom of this in no time.
you need the meter, matching strips, lancets (ask pharmacy personel if you don't know) that's where all this stuff will be in the pharmacy dept. cotton balls. ummm, do you have anything at all you can warm his ear up with? we use rice socks, but there kind of hard to find. i can send you one if you like...in the mean time find something you can use to warm up that ear.
keep a notebook or journal as you will want to write down all his #'s so we can see the trend.
welcome to the fdmb family and looking forward to seeing those #'s
hey think of the $ you'll save never having the vet do it again. your in control now. luckily we ALL have diabetic cats...even some high dose ones, and we will be able to steer you from our group knowledge.
many cats on your particular insulin go off insulin when treated correctly.
HAPPY TO HAVE YOU!
lori and tomtom

 

I just got a small sock put 1/2 cup rice in it ,tie it warm it in mircowave 15 seconds works great I also wrap Trey in a big bath towel makes him feel safe and no trying to get away. poke test beep lt go Give lots of love and treat he will come looking for it in no time Hard to believe but its true LOL Kath :lol: :mrgreen:

 

yep, tom actually comes running for his test and purrs all the way thru it.
might take a couple of days...remeber to make it a special occasion for him with lots of luvin and a treat (after not before or you'll effect bg's)

 

I apologize for not posting sooner - got called into work today and just now got home from Walmart.

I have all my supplies and will be doing my first home test tomorrow. (!) I got a Relion meter, strips, lancets, swabs, rice and a brand new sock. I almost bought a pink meter, but DH insisted on the blue one. LOL

As soon as I do the reading I will let you all know the #'s so hopefully everything will start getting under control. Thank you all for being so kind to me and for offering to help walk me through this. I really feel blessed that there is a place I can get the information I need without people thinking I'm being ridiculous.

I hope everyone has a great night and I'll post tomorrow morning.

 

Good job now you will see a big difference and it will be for the best...Kath :mrgreen: :lol: no more dry food and only LC unless you need HC once you get the jest of this Piece of cake ohmygod_smile can`t have cake full of carbs :lol:

 

Hi Marilyn,
I think you may find that the dose is way too high for Chance, and the only way you know may be by starting over, or at a much lower dose. It's a good thing you are feeding the dry food because it is likely saving Chance from going too low.

Fantastic that you have the meter and can start home testing! Why pay a vet an arm and a leg or even two legs for something that you can do better yourself and in the comforts of your own home.
In the beginning, when you first start out, both you and Chance need to get used to the testing routine but in very short order, you will find that Chance comes for testing because I think cats connect the test to either snacks, treats, meals, or shots that make them feel better. Cats are pretty smart, so they learn quickly what is good for them. My two often sleep through the tests.

If you were to ask a human diabetic if they give themselves shots without testing their BG, you would get a shocked response because that's just not done! Of course you test before shots of insulin, so why treat your baby any diff?

The tests that you need to get are right before each shot, and for sure a test just before you go to sleep - many cats go lower at nite, so it's good to know where Chance is before you head off to bed. The curve testing can be done by you, testing every 2 hours between shots, and will give you an idea when Chance is going lowest. It is that lowest number on which you base any dose increases or decreases, and certainly NOT on one single number taken at a vet office!

There are cats who need doses as high as what your vet says to give Chance; my Shadoe is getting 7.5u BID at the moment, but she has a condition known as acromegaly which causes the need of a high dose. There are tests that can determine this condition, but first you need to find out what Chance really needs.

Dry food is like kitty crack; high carbs and the LAST thing a diabetic cat needs! Actually, it's good to switch all your babies to wet or even raw if possible, I think someone gave you a link earlier about foods. Just do NOT switch Chance to wet food while he is getting this crazy high dose of 7u; it could be very dangerous for him. When you do make the change, you are going to see a big improvement in his numbers and his insulin needs will likely drop too. If my Shadoe gets ahold of even just a mouthful of dry foods, her numbers skyrocket... it's just not good for diabetics.

Who likes going to the drs? The same goes for the kitties; strange place, getting poked and prodded, naturally, the numbers will be different because of the stress.

Anyways, spend a bit of time getting used to testing Chance, and you can record your numbers on a google spreadsheet as it will help you see how Chance is doing, and it will allows others here to view the numbers and help you with decisions. If your vet has computer, your google spreadsheet can be viewed by your vet as well. If not, then you can always print a copy of the sheet and give it to your vet - I always take a copy of spreadsheets with me to the vet when I take my two in.

If you have any questions, concerns, or difficulties, please do not hesitate in asking.

 

ohmygod_smile I am sorry about saying get rid of dry food I should have read it over Sorry do not listen to me ok I know nothing ok I scared myself to think I said that ...I will watch what I say I try not to things like that I just wan`t thinking :mrgreen: Sorry Kath