New Diagnosis, I'm massacring my kitty's ears and need bg curve advice

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Martha and Lolly, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Jan 4, 2015
    89 at +6.5 3:20am

    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter) - could be the Karo somewhat
    81 at + 6.5 (3:40am)
     
  2. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    81 is 52 on human meter. Would like to see above 60 and rising for a little more comfort.
     
  3. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Oh thank you thank you so much. She seems fine still, I really don't want people to have to stay up with me. She just doesn't want to eat- she gets like this, she's never been a gobbler. I have a small and large feeding syringe for worst case scenario, am ready to go to ER, but I hope I've passed the nadir.

    I actually don't have any dairy products Im lactose intolerant. If she won't lick the tuna juice, I don't think I can get her to eat anything. She might eat dry with tuna juice over it. After each test, she goes into the bedroom and jumps on the bed where she seems fine.
     
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  4. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    We need to get her to eat a little more....did you see my suggestion for ice cream? Is dry something she will eat no matter what? If you can try ice cream, or similar. If she won't eat her canned, then may have to give a bit of dry. Will likely make her numbers high tomorrow but that's OK.
    I have no idea when her nadir is, it very well may have past but not enough data to know for sure
     
  5. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Good morning from the UK.
    Another pair of eyes here if necessary. (Just going to read back through the thread)

    Eliz
     
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  6. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    How long ago was last test?
     
  7. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Jan 4, 2015
    89 at +6.5 3:20am
    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter) - could be the Karo somewhat
    81 at + 6.5 (3:40am)
    Thank you
     
  8. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Oh ....where is the love button? Thank you Elizabeth!!! Big problem now is we don't know when she nadirs, not enough data... And she won't eat, has had very little since 1.5 hours BEFORE her shot.
    I was so worried cause I was fading so glad you are here
     
  9. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    NOTE: all numbers AlphaTrack
     
  10. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Thank you from the bottom of my heart Betty. Please get some sleep. <3
     
  11. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Martha, most kitties are ravenous when they get in real low numbers...they can get overfull when having to continue being fed over a long period, but very unusual that Martha had almost no appetite at all through this.
    We need to get some High carb fancy feast in gravy for your hypo kit for future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  12. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Okey dokey, Betty (great job, BTW!). And Lantus kitties can sometimes drop late into the cycle too.
     
  13. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter)
    +6.5 of 81 at 3:20 am (about 53 on a human meter)


    (sorry; fell asleep despite Bruce Willis movie on TV!!!)

    Glad you're with us Elizabeth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
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  14. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Then if you are ever in a bind, that's what you reach for.
     
  15. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you fell asleep BECAUSE of the Bruce Willis movie. Lol! (and the fact it is 4AM). This kitty is just surfing these numbers for hours.
     
  16. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    From the 70 @ +5 to the 89 @ + 6.5 is just over a 20% increase (meter error variance), so I think she's coming up now.

    Scratch that; mistyped - it was 81 (or 53 on a human meter)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  17. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    But there was Karo in between...correct?
     
  18. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I think so. Just checked back though posts and Martha said she'd 'got Karo into her at around +5'.
     
  19. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Yes Karo, but over 1.5 hours. Got to keep going a bit longer.
    Mis-typed number, sorry.



    Having some chocolate hazelnut decaf tea, plus peppermint; I was starting to get cold which makes me sleepy!
     
  20. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame Bruce Willis couldn't have lent you one of his white vests, BJ! ;)
     
  21. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Folks I am crashing... Eliz you are here even if BJ falls asleep, right? It's a saner hour in UK, yes.
    If nothing else and kitty still won't eat then maybe leave some dry out as safety net?....what do you think...still necessary even?

    Martha what a great job!!! You're in great hands. Hugs to you and Lolly:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  22. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I think its one of the Die Hard movies, about the hacker attacks.

    Good thing tomorrow today is a holiday for me.
     
  23. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Its +7.5. Would you please snag another test for us?
     
  24. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter) - could be the Karo somewhat
    89 at +6.5 3:20am
    81 at + 6.5 (3:40am)

    I just checked the glucometer with the control solution - it's fine. Doing another bg now.
     
  25. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    What's the latest? I can stay now until whatever time. Are we up to around +6.5 with the last karo (tsp) at +5 and due for another test?
     
  26. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    She's getting another test now.
    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter)
    +6.5 of 89 at 3:20 am (about 58 on a human meter)
    +6.6 of 81 at 3:40 am (about 53 on a human meter)
    +7.5 of ___ at 4:40 am (about ___ on a human meter)
     
  27. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Betty, I'm fine to stay around. (9.30am here and I'm at home today).
    Get some sleepzzzzzzzzz........

    And YES it is still important to keep an eye on Lolly. As Marje said earlier Lantus can drop kitties' BG quite late on into the cycle. So, ideally, we want to see three rising numbers.

    Regarding dry food, yes it can be helpful sometimes. In fact there is the option of getting longer-acting carbs into the cat and just 'aborting the cycle'; especially if someone is new to dealing with diabetes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
    Reason for edit: Edited to correct name of Martha's kitty....
  28. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    aha I see we are onto page 2 - sorry I didnt see these latest posts and see that you are covered already
     
  29. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    G'day Victor's Mum. :)
     
  30. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    .
    Martha's kitty is Lolly!!.... My sweet Hank is GA but hopefully keeping an eye on us all!
    G'nite:bighug:
     
  31. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Duh! I obviously need more coffee!!! :oops:
    Sorry, Betty. Nighty night (and to angel Hank too....)
     
  32. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    We're in trouble. she's 51 at 4:48 am +7.5. She still seems fine. Try kayo again, won't eat.
     
  33. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter)
    +6.5 of 89 at 3:20 am (about 58 on a human meter)
    +6.6 of 81 at 3:40 am (about 53 on a human meter)

    +7.5 51 at 4:40 am (about 33 on a human meter) dropping - more Karo
     
  34. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Are you able to put some karo onto her mouth so she'll lick it off?
     
  35. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I used feeding syringe to get some kayro in her.
     
  36. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Have you got an oral syringe?
    Ok, good.


    Make a bit of a slurry and add a small amount of low carb to the Karo. This will start getting some protein in which breaks down in a more sustained fashion.
     
  37. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Great!
    Will she eat dry food at all?
     
  38. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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  39. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Is there any other source of carbs in the house that she might eat? Doesn't matter what it is if she will eat it.

    You may need to take her to ER vet. If it were my kitty I'd be seriously considering that now.
    If you go, then take some karo with you. And try to phone ahead or get someone to do that for you.
     
  40. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Flour? rice? cereal?
     
  41. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    I am still here. I'd re-test that for accuracy...that's a 30 pt drop in hour. Unlikley except maybe due to so little food. I'd pull the dry out and pour tuna juice on it....
     
  42. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    She ate a little bit of her old HC dry food- not much. She isn't hungry. I'm confused, she still seems ok. Im ready to go to ER if necessary.
     
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  43. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    i'll definitely retest, she seems ok.
     
  44. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    They can seem OK and go into seizures in a second.
     
  45. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Kitty was at 55 yesterday cycle. But still would re-check this number. Martha said earlier one thing Lolly will always eat is dry with tuna juice. I say put the bowl out for her. She will be high tomorrow but who cares now
     
  46. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Can you get another test, Martha? (To double check previous test and make sure she's not dropping further?)
     
  47. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Please tell us the retest number.

    And how much Karo you got into her? (And time)

    And how much food, if any?

    If you retested, how long after the Karo and or food?
     
  48. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    heart attack -- its 83 do you think was a mis test or cairn brought it up?
     
  49. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.
     
  50. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I got about a tsp kayo into her about 25 min ago
     
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  51. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Meters are not very accurate; they read +/- 20% of what a lab would get.
    And Karo hits in about 20-30 minutes.
    +8 of 83 at 5:05 am (about 54 on a human meter)
     
  52. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    How much of the dry food do you think she ate? That should start to kick in soon.
     
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  53. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    She just won't eat anymore. I drenched her dry in tuna juice. She's at 83. Test in 30 min? More kayro?
     
  54. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Test in 30 min.
    Repeat Karo then if still low.
    Add in a bit of protein if possible.
    See if she'll play; it can perk appetite.
     
  55. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Not too much dry. a tablespoon perhaps
     
  56. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    The dry will expand with moisture; watch out for vomiting. If she does vomit, go to the ER.
     
  57. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Lolly ate the dry about 16 mins ago, so hopefully it is going to stay down...
     
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  58. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    I tend toward it maybe having been a bad test, but these last numbers are bumped up with Karo same time. Karo will wear off, but since she has now eaten at least a little dry, that will help. And also its later in the cycle so that also is good. Karo may not agree with her....my hope is she will eat more of the dry at this point. We never say that but she needs to eat. Any chance you have any kind of gravy?....that works best of all. If food and Karo stay down and numbers stay here and begin rising, we are good
     
  59. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    You can improvise gravy with some flour and low carb.
     
  60. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    And someone got through an episode like this a while back using mashed potatoes.
     
  61. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    The enigma is, that this kittys low numbers don't trigger her hunger. Most kitties want to eat your legs when they are low...unless they've gotten overstuffed
     
  62. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    My Bertie is also one of those who doesn't want to eat when his blood glucose is low. He wants to sleep. He's had 3 hypos (so far!) and it has been a nightmare trying to get food into him...:banghead:
     
  63. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    So what did you do?....how did you get him to eat? This could help Martha maybe.
     
  64. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I was going to ask the same thing. I'm going to try mixing some of her food with some flour, make gravy...
     
  65. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't pretty....:oops:
    I made a mush out of high carb food and glucose syrup and put it onto his paws so he'd lick it off. And then when he got tired of that I opened his mouth and popped some straight in...
    But, but, but... If you have a syringe then you may be able to make a gravy mix and syringe feed..?
     
  66. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    You can puree in a blender with liquid...like broth... then mix w/ flour and heat to warm
     
  67. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    About time for another test.
     
  68. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    86 at +9 (5:55am EST) no change She really didn't want her gravy
     
  69. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    AlphaTrak numbers so far:
    PMPS of 63 at 9 pm (roughly 41 on a human meter)
    +3 of 59 at 12 midnight (roughly 38 on a human meter) - too low.
    +4 of 86 at 1am (roughly 55 on a human meter)
    +4.5 of 72 at 1:30 am (about 47 on a human meter)
    +5 of 70 at 2:00 am (about 45.5 on a human meter)
    +5.5 of 95 at 2:30 am (about 62 on a human meter)
    +6.5 of 89 at 3:20 am (about 58 on a human meter)
    +6.6 of 81 at 3:40 am (about 53 on a human meter)
    +7.5 of 51 at 4:40 am (about 33 on a human meter)
    +8 of 83 at 5:05 am (about 54 on a human meter)
    +9 of 86 at 5:55 am (about 55.9 on a human meter) - surfing steadily
     
  70. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Surfing same numbers, wonder if dry she ate has kicked in yet? How long ago was that?
    Let's see what the others are saying
     
  71. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    OK, at least she's holding and not dropping.

    Martha, could you syringe feed if it becomes necessary?

    BTW, you are doing an amazing job here. And you must be absolutely exhausted too.
    Let's hope those numbers show a rise soon...
     
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  72. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Thank you so much Elizabeth. She probably would have liked your gravy. I have a syringe, I've used it to get Kayro in her mouth which she swallowed- but exactly how do you syringe feed wet?

    You are the ones doing the great job.
     
  73. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    That earlier number had to be a fluke..you think? Otherwise surf surf. Another T of dry would be so great Lolly.
     
  74. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    You make a slurry, draw it up, then carefully point towards the back corner of the mouth and push in small amounts at a time.
     
  75. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I think the dry food was an hour ago, so that should have kicked in, and should be providing some carb input for longer than the karo will.
     
  76. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Add water, puree and squirt
     
  77. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I could try, but it would best be done in the bathtub, I imagine.
     
  78. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    ok, pureeing the dry now
     
  79. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Oh she is doing the dry, vs canned....will that work? Maybe mix some lc canned for consistency
     
  80. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    Use bj's technique, she would know better on that. Go slow
     
  81. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I managed to get 3-4 tsp of the dry food slurry into her. Other 4 tsp on me. She's licking her chops, hiding under the bed, she is pissed at me. I'm giving her a sec, then I'll go after her. Best idea!
     
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  82. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    Oops, missed those posts, but, so far so good.
     
  83. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Terrific!
    Doing OK?
     
  84. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Yay for dry food slurry! But sorry you've ended up wearing some of it....
     
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  85. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    I cannot open the xl file martha attached on my tablet, but FYI quoted what Jen said above. Not sure what happened after that as I can't open it. Maybe someone can help her with our SS. I know she was having trouble with it
     
  86. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    WooHoo!! (Not the mad under the bed part :))
     
  87. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    I feel so much safer now-- I can give my stubborn baby a "dry slurry" even if she won't eat anything else. THANK YOU for this wonderful idea! She just came out from under the bed, is next to me on couch, grooming herself.
     
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  88. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

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    We want to get you some HC gravy fancy feast for your hypo kit for future. We have to find the ones she can't resist. But SO glad we finally found something to punt in the meantime. Know you feel some relief
     
  89. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Aw, bless her :)

    Let's hope we see a rise with that next test.
     
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  90. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Coming up on +10 / 7:00 am for another test.
     
  91. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    God you people are amazing! Off for another test..
     
  92. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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  93. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

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    111 at +10
     
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  94. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    +9 of 86 at 5:55 am (about 55.9 on a human meter)

    +10 of 111 at 7:00 am (about 72 on a human meter)


    Finally starting to come up; that was more than a 20% increase.

    A little more food, if possible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  95. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Great news that she's starting to come up. :)
     
    bettyandhank likes this.
  96. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    more slurry...here we go
     
  97. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Whew!!..The lack of food was keeping her too low. I know you have had a big night with SO much info your brain is probably full.... But try to remember going forward you want to Test, FEED, then shoot.
     
  98. bettyandhank

    bettyandhank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Yay, finally. Poor thing, she must be exhausted.
     
  99. Martha and Lolly

    Martha and Lolly Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    She saw me going for the syringe. I can't find her. She's good at this, it could take a bit.
     
  100. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    I've got to crash at this point, Martha, the sleep disorder is kicking my butt.
    You want 3 rising tests about 30 minutes apart, and adding in some of the low carb will help keep it sustained.
    Because of how low she went, she may bounce, that is, have unusually high numbers due to compensatory protective hormones which release stored glucose (glycogen). This is normal and may last 3 days.
    Decrease the dose as advised previously, even if high.
     

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