New diagnosis, new diet?

My cat Tessie Lou was just diagnosed on 11/26/10 and started on insulin. Even though I've read that a diabetic cat should be on a high protein, low carb diet, my vet is recommending that she remain on her Royal Canin High Fiber diet. She said it's best not to change diet and start insulin at the same time. She said she must get the weight down and diabetes under control first, then we'll talk about a diet change. Any thoughts out there on this treatment plan?
Thanks!

 

Diabetic's both human and feline need to follow a low carb diet.

A low carb diet can lower Tessie Lou's bg's dramatically so you will need to be home testing her blood sugar befor you change her diet.

 

I can barely get through doing the shots, but I know I will have to learn how to home test next. I see you switched to ProZinc in July. Is it working for your kitty? Is it the human form? That is what Tessie Lou was put on. 2 units for 17 days, now upped it to 3 units today cause BG was still too high. She has lost 6 oz., which I think is good. She weighs 16.2 lbs.
Thanks,
Sandy

 

I would say that for most cats that logic is backwards - get the food lower carb and the insulin needs go down (my cat has needed about a quarter of the insulin on low carb canned food as he needed on low carb dry food - and that was the lower carb dry, imagine the difference on a high carb dry food!). That is what will help you get the diabetes under control. Trying to get diabetes under control on anything but a low carb canned diet is a major challenge from what I have seen - we tried for about 10 months and still couldn't get Bix successfully regulated. Once I got him converted to LC canned, he was regulated within a month. Just for reference, when he was on dry food (around 12% carb) I was up to 4.5u and he still wasn't regulated - on LC canned he has done well around 1u or 1.5u.

All that said, I don't know much about the specifics of dealing with overweight cats. A lot of diabetes cats show up here having lost weight, so I have seen the underweight situation much more often. If you don't get specific input on that here, or if you want more info, you may want to post on Health (if you haven't already) for tips on which foods are best if your cat needs to lose weight, etc. There may be some differences in the approach, though I would bet it is still LC canned that is recommended.

Home testing is challenging at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's really easy. It's laughable when I look back at how terrified I was of it at first, and how easy it is now. Shots too - they get a lot easier. You can get tons of help here & in the Health forum on testing - I think there is a video somewhere, plus lots of people with tips, etc.

 

Start home testing before you make any diet change. The change to low carb wet food can have sometimes dramatic effects in lowering their insulin needs and BG values. And you need to stay no your toes when you do that. Frequently [because of this potential for change], it is recommended to drop back to 1u twice per day and re-regulate the cat once the food change is made. My cat's BGs went down at least 200 points from the food change. The food change will allow the diabetes to get under control faster - some cats go into remission [needing no insulin] just from the food change.

IMHO, the diet change to low carb wet only needs to happen first, then you can figure out how much your cat should eat to lose weight [safely] and only give that amount - calorie restriction. Personally, I'd just change the food and wait to see the effect of that on the curve - it usually starts to happen within seven days. Then you can reduce the amount needed for the kitty weight loss diet [I would recommended doing this slowly ever days]. And you will also likely see the effects of that on the BGs too because food in = BGs up. Or in this case less food in will likely mean slightly lower insulin need. You might want to wait too for the weight loss [calorie restriction] diet until you have your kitty regulated because not having things regulated plays tricks with the metabolism. As hinted at here they can eat like crazy and still lose weight if unregulated. And while the are unregulated it is often recommended to give them as much food as they need. Ask you vet and ask around here too about how they would time the calorie restriction with the diet change.

Dr. Pierson as a bit on feline obesity on her web page here:
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity

The main thing to a kitty 'diet' is that they are not supposed to lose more than a certain % of their body weight over a given period of time. If this is not on Dr. Peirson's page or you cannot find it elsewhere, please let me know and I'll try to dig that up for you.

One can use something like the SS I made here to come at some rough claculations as to how much your cat should eat:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... nhPTXBEUUE
You have do download as (excel) then upload or import back into google if you wish to use it in google.

Likely you will need a scale. I'm not sure how much your cat weighs but if under 16.5 or 17 lbs then this is a great scale:
http://www.google.com/search?q=my+weigh+kd-8000
If over than than the My Weigh also makes the http://www.google.com/search?q=my+weigh+wr-12

The scales also help you weigh the food to make sure they get the right amount.

Folks here that have "hoover" kitties frequently find the timed feeders help spread out the meals during the day to help reduce the effect of food on the BG curve. The 5 slot ones I think are the best. Nancy of Nancy & Cody has tip on that and you can PM her if you wish. Many others here have ideas about timed feeders too - no shortage of advice on that topic around here.

 

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I feel like I've tapped into an amazing wealth of knowledge that can only come from the battlefield! The consensus seems to be that I first need to learn how to home test, so that I can move her to LC canned. And, to do that, I will need to have another conversation with my vet. She is opposed to this, as I said in my first post. She told me that she went to a lecture 6 months ago by some "cat guru" that runs a big cat clinic in California. She said he advised against changing a diet when a cat is first diagnosed with DM and the insulin dose is being changed.

The other complication that I didn't mention before is that Tessie has a history of URI and also had chronic diarrhea when I got her from the humane society (she was a very sick girl). The vet put her on the RC High Fiber to correct that, and it worked. So a real concern with canned is that she would return to the diarrhea. This is all very tricky and confusing (including how to use this message board). Well, thanks again everybody. I will post an update soon.
Sandy and Tessie Lou

 

Try to find a canned food that is grain free and LC. Cat's GI often don't like the 'junk' that in most foods. At a minimum try to find one that are gluten free [via Angus's list]. But grain free is optimal.

Wellness Turkey or Chicken is one that a lot of cats use here. Some of the Merrick flavors are good too. I think their Before Grain ones are now nutritionally complete [but I haven't seen the ingredients myself].

Here are some additional food links from the newbie checklist:
ADDITIONAL FOOD & NUTRITION LINKS:
Wayne & Hobo's list [additional foods]:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30232

Karen & Angus's list [uber-complete food ingredients breakdowns]:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3515

Some Fancy Feast flavors info:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7743

Hobo's list has many of the Merrick flavors - including the new Before Grain flavors. Angus's list has at least whether a food is gluten free or not [but no real way to tell if grain free from her list]. But at least you can avoid the ones with gluten in them. The grain free ones are like some of the Merrick ones and some of the Wellness ones - they usually advertise on the can "grain free".

If it turns out that fiber is the trick then there are other ways to add fiber to a cat's diet other than feeding sub par food. But only do it if you switch to a grain free and STILL have diarrhea. Pumpkin is one that has insoluable fiber but I've tried it in the past for constipation and I thought it *might* have raised H's BGs - it's just something you would have to watch. Also there is psyllium fiber pills that you can break up - but you would have to ask your vet if psyllium husk fiber would be the kind of fiber your kitty needs. I'm pretty sure it is an insoluble fiber but I'm not 100% about that.

URI - do you mean UTI? All these complications would be good to put into your profile so everyone can see them. UTIs can effect the BGs. And since they dump sugar into their urine they are susceptible to UTIs - more so than other cats.

 

Hun, you don't need your vets permission to home test. Tessie Lou is your kitty, you can do anything you want.

Do you want to be convinced about home testing? Read the thread named "Ashley's numbers all over the place". Sheryl & Ashley are new to this site too but she learned to home test right away. Sheryl is shooting 2.8 units twice a day, this morning her am preshot was 78 :shock: if she had not been home testing she would not have known that Ashley's bg was too low to give her any insulin and she would have shot the usual 2.8 units. My guess is that the outcome would have been tragic.

You can get testing supplies at any pharmacy. We use the Walmart Relion Micro Meter and strips (the test strips are the least expensive), you'll need Lancets, Ketostix, and put together a hypo kit. There are videos on you tube showing you how to test, lots of information here too

If you need help just ask and we can talk you through it.

The learning curve on FD is very steep in the beginning, believe me every one of us has stood in your shoes feeling overwhelmed and confused but it gets easier and easier as you go along and in a few weeks you will be a pro.

 

Yes we switched to Prozinc on the 4th of July. Click on the link below my signature that says in blue "Harleys Spreadsheet" and you can see our journey, be sure to scroll down all the way to the bottom to see how Harley is doing today.

He's doing great!

 

Also, once you get going with testing the supplies can usually be had cheaper online:
viewtopic.php?p=328504#p328504

Many like the Wal-Mart meters because the supplies are inexpensive. Ultimately too we recommend having more than one meter [for backup] so even if the one you get now is not the one you ultimately like in the long run, it can be your backup.

Also many of the companies have ways to get free meters. You can call the companies and ask them. Just don't tell them you are using it on your cat - tell them you are using it on your "baby."
https://www.myfreestyle.com

 

First of all, Gator, Rob, and Joanna, thanks so much for all the info and tips. Very helpful. Tomorrow I will go to Walmart and get the testing supplies. also talked to my husband and he is on board with helping me. Tessie is on 3 units of ProZinc at 9am and 9pm, starting yesterday morning. She is definitely drinking less and not as starved today. Still, after we get comfortable with testing in the next few days, I'm thinking I'll contact the vet and tell her we want to move to LC canned food and reduce insulin to 1 unit bid. Does that sound like a reasonable move? I wish I had never started the insulin and just tried changing her diet to LC, but I didn't have a clue about diabetes then. Just took the vet's word about treatment. Anyway, onward and upward. I know Tessie's history with Upper Respiratory Infection (URI?) and UTI's, and chronic diarrhea, coupled with her obesity (16.2 lbs) makes her a difficult case. She was found near death from cold and starvation in a farm field and the humane society had her in quarantine for 4 months before they put her up for adoption. I have had her for about a year and she means the world to me. She is the sweetest, gentlest creature. Part of the reason she is so overweight is that she is obsessed with food and I didn't have the heart to limit her food intake. Sure wish I would have...maybe I could have avoided this.

Question: how do I start a spreadsheet? It looks like everyone uses the same format, but where do I get a blank one to start from? I don't know how to use Excel.

Thanks again, so very much!
Sandy and Tessie Lou

Tessie Lou
Black/orange/gray tabby
approx. 3 years old
16.2 lbs (down from 17.8 in July 2010)
Starting BG at diagnosis on 11/25/10 was 450
Started on PZ 2 units bid; changed to 3 units bid on 12/13/10
BG at vet's office 12/13/10 was 365

 

Instructions for the SS are here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Do make sure to read the PZI Sticky and the newbie checklist [even though it's currently in draft form]:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31358

Also the profile is a good thing to do at the same time too and include as much background on your kitty as possible. The instructions are found in the tech support forum in the stickies at the top again for that:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17766

 

If you go to the Tech forum they will give you step by step directions to attach the ss template to your signature. If it is difficult ask for help and someone will help you. If it wern't for other people here Harley wouldn't have a ss or a picture.

Why wait, you can call your vet and tell them that you read on the prozinc website that the recommended starting dose is 1 unit twice a day and that is what you want to do and go for it.

Harley's story, at his dx the vet handed me a vial of insulin and a box of syringes and said to give him 1 unit twice a day and come back in three weeks for a curve. I was devastated, I cried for two days, and then I found this web site. I started home testing, changed his diet using Janet & Binky's food chart, set up a ss, set up a profile and followed the protocol and advise here. Three weeks later I cancelled the appointment for a curve because he had become diet controlled and no longer needed insulin.

He is insulin depentant again after being boarded at the same vet clinic while I was out of town for work.

 

I just had a scare with Tessie Lou. I gave her the 3 unit dose of ProZinc at 9pm, and by 10:45pm, she was lying very still and was glassy-eyed. I started to give her Karo syrup, but decided to try just food first. That seemed to help, and now (11:5pm) she seems better. I will sleep next to her tonight just in case.

Rob, I was so touched by Harley's story. I can't believe the vet caused him to become insulin dependent again. That is horrible! Was it the stress of being there? This disease is really devastating. I've been crying a lot, and feeling overwhelmed, and really guilty that I've let this happen to her.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to Walmart to get the testing supplies and come home and figure out how to do it. I am going to call the vet, too. I want to have her on the same page with me, but I will do what I have to do for Tess.

Thanks for the spreadsheet and profile info. I will try to get that started tomorrow as well.

Sandy

 

I'm so sorry.

Don't switch the food until you are testing and comfortable with that.

Testing is the only way to know what is going on. I'm very happy you are on board with that.

Once you are testing then you can make the food switch. And at the same time [if you do not have keytones as a problem] it is suggested you drop back to 1u twice per day.

The glassy eye and limp thing is very worrisome. You might even want to reduce immediately to max 2u [or even 1u] twice per day until you can get a handle on things.

This DM thing is VERY hard at the start, but over time it does get easier.

 

Yes, I'm going to go back to 2 units tomorrow morning. Do you have a link to a video of how to do the test? My husband and I have no clue.
Thanks,
Sandy

 

When in doubt check the Newbie Checklist!
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31358

#1 Get your home testing on!
links that detail how to achieve home testing: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

Good luck and be patient. Get that ear nice and warm [but don't burn it]. Use 28 gauge lancets if possible. Smaller lancets [30g or 31g] are harder.

You'll also need a sock and some rice. About 12 second did it right in my microwave if I recall correctly. But my microwave is fairly strong.

Aim for the "sweet spot" and NOT the vein.

 

well last nite i wanted to say go to 1u this morning before you have your testing supplies but my computor went out on me. so......... looking forward to seeing your numbers once you start getting them.

 

Great news. After a very good conversation this a.m., my vet has agreed to put Tessie Lou on canned LC food and lower the insulin back to starting dose! We start introducing the new food tomorrow and we'll go ten days or so, to see if her tummy can tolerate it without getting diarrhea. Think good thoughts for her! I think we're on the right track now, thanks in large part to the people on this board. I feel so much better about her future now.

Sandy

 

it's still not safe to shoot without testing. and you will never know if she's getting better without testing. if you change foods things could happen VERY QUICKLY. please test your cats sugars...it's sooooooooo important.

 

what was the starting dose?

 

What LC food will you be feeding?

Yes, agreed you need to be testing.

Please look at your newbie peer's spreadsheet [Beth & Bud Bud] and recent topics and see what can happen with the change to low carb - it can be dramatic. You need to know whats going on.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32113
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32179

 

You go girl! I'm so glad your vet is on board. Did you get your testing supplies?

As everyone else said, switching to low carb food can dramatically lower Tessie's bg's so you need to be testing first.

 

Tess will be starting canned Purina DM. I honestly don't know what carb percent it is. Can doesn't say. Vet said start new food very slowly--one part new and three parts old (RC high fiber dry) working slowly up to all Purina Dm in 10 days.
Her starting dose of ProZinc was 2 units. Vet will repeat BG in 10 days. I have ordered a free monitoring kit and should get it in a few days, although vet is very against a human monitor. Says I must use animal one if I'm going to home test. They are $95.00. Husband and I are waivering on home testing. Tell the truth, we're scared. Vet does not feel it is necessary. She advises watching her closely for any symptoms of BG getting too low, and if so, use the food or Karo method.

 

The new canned Purina DM [gold top I think??] is "low carb" what is on the label is not how we calculate carbs generally here. The can has "guaranteed analysis" and when we talk about carbs here it is generally in "as %Kcal." There are plenty of other low carb foods out there that you can buy in the pet store and not from your vet that are less expensive and/or have better ingredients than the Purina DM. But the DM should suffice for now as long as it is the wet and not the dry.

You do not need a pet meter. 90%+ of the people on the board use human ones with great results. All the numbers we talk about here have generally taken into consideration the difference [at the low end especially] between the pet and human ones. The real power of the meters is to see the RELATIVE differences in BGs.

You can read this about glucomiters:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Glucometer

and:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_glucose_level

Not knowing is WAY more scary than knowing to me. Knowledge is the forbidden fruit of power.

You can do your own curves - you do not need to pay the vet for that.

If you ordered a "newbie kit" those come from Lori [thanks Lori for your continued work on that]. And she's been actively sending them out so hopefully you will have it soon.

 

Honestly, every step of this journey/sugar dance is scarry and overwhelming. But the truth is that I would be too scared to shoot insulin into my little buddy without knowing it is safe to so first.

If you choose to not home test please please please read up on and memorize the hypo symptoms, you want to catch it before they start having seizures, mapquest the route to the nearest ER Vet Clinic, print it out and have it handy just in case, because every minute will count.

 

Tessie Lou, Please come back.

 

We're here. Tessie is sleeping peacefully next to me after her 9pm shot of 2u. She started her new Purina DM today and loves it. I am transitioning it in slowly, 1 part DM to 3 parts RC Hi Fiber dry, with the goal of all DM by 12/27. I believe even though she's only getting .9 oz of the canned 3 times a day, she is already more satisfied and not as famished all the time. Her thirst has also slacked. Of course, that might be the insulin working, too. A good day today. I am lucky to be retired and home with her all day. I am watching her VERY closely for any signs of hypo.

 

Do they always show signs when their BG is dangerously low? Does the blood draw from their ear hurt them a lot? Do you switch back and forth on each ear? Do you move up and down the ear each time to keep it from getting so sore? BTW, we did not order the animal glucometer the vet recommended. When the free kit comes in, I'm going to try to do it. It's just that the shots have been so stressful, for her and me both. She hates them and runs after her feeding cause she knows what comes next. I can't imagine doing the blood draw right now, but I'm not ruling it out either.
Thanks,
Sandy

 

no

no

sure

sometimes

Most important thing is to apply pressure with a couple cotton balls after for about 30 seconds. This helps the healing, prevents bruising and callousing. And don't aim or the vein - aim for the "sweet spot" And follow the advice in my signature. :smile:

 

Thanks, Gator. Another question: My other cat, TJ, now wants to eat Tessie's new Purina DM food. What is a good OTC canned cat food for a cat with no health problems? He is 3 and weighs about 10 lbs.

Thanks,
Sandy

 

Some of the Merrick flavors are good from a nutritionally balanced aspect [and grain free]. Cowboy Cookout and Grammies pot pie flavors. Also Wellness Chicken or Turkey are good but tend to be high in fat which is not so bad unless your cat has pancreatitis. One can buy the Wellness flavors in the large cans [if you have multiple cats to feed] to reduce costs a little. The Wellnes Chicken & Herring I've had good luck with but again it is high in fat and higher in phosphorous too. Though the idea that fat effects pancreatitis in cats is not proven at all ans is just kind of anecdotal. If your cat ever gets pancreatitis - I'm sure you will know [appetite swings and pain] and will do just about anything to avoid making it flare up. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Pancreatitis

I have not really looked at the new Before Grain flavors that are now supposedly nutritionally complete [before the were not].

In an ideal world you wan a food that is high protein, medium fat and low carbs - and hopefully "reasonable" phosphorous content too - and grain free. "Reasonable" as it turns out in practice is actually on the low end comparatively of what's available. Yea, but good luck fulfilling all those requirements. I can provide more details if you want.

Beyond Janet & Binky's list, I've included some additional nutrition links in the Newbie Checklist at the bottom.

 

Gator, that's great info, thanks. I'm off to the store to look for TJ's food (and some Christmas baking stuff too). BTW, your kitty H was absolutely beautiful. I read your profile and see that he has GA. I'm very sorry for your loss.
Sandy

 

Thank you. :smile:

 

Yesterday, I received my free newbie test kit in the mail - thank you, Lori! The baby sock is adorable and she loves the toys. I went to Abbott's website and read all about the meter, then tried it on myself. I got an error message, so I called the 800 number and the guy said the code number on the meter had to match the code on the test strip bottle. It didn't, so he told me how to recalibrate it, which was easy.

This morning, I tried to get a BG test on Tessie Lou. I stuck her 4 times, got blood 2 of the 4 times, but not enough. It disappeared into her fur. She was pretty good the first couple times, then got upset with me. I put her down and waited about 20 minutes, then tried again. This time I got less blood, ruined 2 test strips, stressed her out, and gave up and sat down and cried for awhile. I went to Walgreens and picked up some vaseline and will try again tomorrow. She is on Day 4 of her transitioned diet of 3 parts RC High Fiber to 1 part Purina DM canned. I really am scared to move her over to all Purina DM until I learn how to do this testing. I am not good at this. I feel very inadequate and I feel so sorry for Tess to have me for a "mom." Still, I'll keep trying, and reading, and watching the videos. I read that it's ok to stick right on the vein, so I will try that tomorrow. Also not sure if I got her ear warm enough, so I'll spend more time on that tomorrow too.
Wish me luck,
Sandy

 

Good luck!

No, do not stick/prick on the vein. You want to aim for the sweet spot. Every now and then everyone hits the vein - but it is a mistake that should be avoided if possible. After a while I was convinced I could see nicks in H's veins where I had accidentally hit them.

Yes this takes a while to learn. Where are you located? We might try to find someone on the board who is nearby to stop past for a lesson. It was very very frustrating in the beginning for me.

I've never had luck with the Vaseline - but my all means try all the tricks. It just made a mess for me.

The lancets need to be fairly large. I like 28 gauge.

Get that ear nice and warm. If you put the sock on the under side of the ear and hold it in place with the palm on the other - you should feel the warmth come though their cold ear into your palm. Basically you are turning that cold little ear warm. That's a good sign you are ready.

Make sure to apply pressure for about 30 seconds with a couple pieces of cotton after you do it - this will help prevent bruising. And follow the advice in my signature - say "one-kitty kitty" after pressing the go button and moving.

Strips and stuff are best bought online where they are much less expensive. I have a link about that in the newbie checklist.

Also here is an old post of mine where I try to describe the milking the ear thing [with other tips]:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6727&p=67873#p67873

 

Congratulations on your first tests!!! Yeah!! Your first attempts sound alot like mine. I would sit there all shaky handed with tears running down my cheeks. But this weekend I tested him while he was sleeping and he didn't wake up until I put pressure on his ear after the poke, he looked at me and went back to sleep. It does get easier and easier.

Gator is right about waiting for a few seconds after the poke, sometimes it takes Harley that long to start to bleed and then I milk his ear to get enough of a drop.

Try switching ears, alot of us have discovered that one of their ears bleeds better than the other.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Thanks Gator, I am in Crescent, Iowa - close to Omaha, Nebraska. The lancets I bought today are 28 gauge. I don't know what size the ones in the kit are. The package didn't say.

I'm glad you wrote back--I thought hitting the vein was ok. I'll aim for in between vein and edge then. I can see a round splash of blood area inside and next to the vein, where I tried today. Is that what bruising looks like? Is that bad? I tried to "milk" the area, by squeezing on either side of where I poked, but that seemed to hurt her, and didn't produce any more blood. I may have caused bruising by doing that...? Maybe I should wait a day and give those poked areas a rest?

Also, I didn't receive a lancet device with my kit. Just the lancets, and a clear plastic thing with a hole in it (I don't know what it is for). So, I just did it manually. Do you think the device makes it easier? If so, what kind should I get? The pen kind? What about that click sound they say it makes that spooks some cats. My cat is definitely easily spooked. I can't believe all these cats I'm reading about who PURR and just sit so still. My cat will never be like that. Just like the shots. She growls her diapproval every single time, even though I'm almost positive I'm not hurting her. I think it's just that, after all she went through at the Humane Society (4 months of shots, meds, quarantine, IV's), she just hates being messed with. And I can't blame her for that. Also, I am tentative and unsure of myself, which of course, she senses.

Rob, I appreciate your encouragement, too. I have had cats all my life, but never had one with special needs before. It's very unnerving. I forgot to ask, but is it ok to go clear through the ear? I did--it bled on both sides. Does that mean the lancet is too big?

Sandy

 

Going all the way though is OK but not ideal. It's happened to me a lot.

The clear cap sounds like the cap to the device [maybe even the "deep" cap which for cats would be the one to use on the paw if it ever came to that] but you need the lancer too. I found the lancer TOTALLY helps. You have been trying to do it the "freehand" way which many swear by here. With the lancer even though I eventually switched to using my Freestyle Lite I really liked the lancer that cam with the One Touch Ultra Mini. I think you can buy the lancers in just about any pharmacy [including wal mart]. The lancets are universal to the devices so I don't think that matters.

I put a notice in Community to see if anyone might be able to help you. I just sent a PM to one person near Omaha supposedly. We'll hear if I get any response.

Read that link I send you talking about my milking suggestions. It's not s much about squeezing it from under the ear to the top. It's about pushing the blood from the base or middle of the ear up to the tip.

Make sure to give her lots of scritches before and after and low carb treats too. I think it is best done in a comfy place where they feel safe. Usually I would grab H and put him in one of his beds [actually the one in the picture of him]. If you have presbiopia as the vast majority of folks here do, make sure you have good light and your reader glasses available to you.

 

I don't use the Lancet Pen, I found it too awkward. If you want mine I can mail it to you. I freehand the poke at a 45 degree angle to avoid going clean through. Harley doesn't like me milking his ear either, that bothers him more than the poke does.

The calmer you are the calmer she will be and always give extra lovin and treats weather you were successful or not. She will start to look forward to that and put up with the poke.

 

Thanks for that, Gator. I would sure welcome someone local, if even just to talk to on the phone. I did read the stuff you wrote about milking the spot, and I'll try that too.

Rob, thanks for your offer, but I'll just pick up a lancer device at the pharmacy and see if I have any luck with it.

Thanks, guys. I'll let you know how it goes. Have a good evening!

 

Just thought I would mention that I just spoke with the shipping/packing department at newbie kits. Evidently they've been not shipping with the lancer for some crazy reason. I lodged my official complaint and I hope the situation changes here soon . :lol:

Also Sandy you might want to look at the Community topic and PM Donna and see if you can get something arranged between the two of you:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32583

Let me know how it goes and if you two are able to connect.

 

OMG Gator!!!! :lol: yes i assume everyone wants to free hand it so i don't send out the device. I'm sorry. I found it harder to use so I thought everyone else would too.
Complaint logged.
i don't think you need to buy one...but if you want to it should be super cheap. I would'nt pay more than 2 dollars for it.

 

Donna said she will be in contact with you Sandy about a newbie lesson. So do check your PMs [private messages]. Yea! I'm excited for you.

 

it is hard to find a good lancet device for $2

I like the one we got in a Walgreen's True Track kit -- we hated the meter and now use Maxima AST meter from www.hocks.com, but like the lancet device a lot.

When the first one broke - -a replacement cost $10 at Walgreens

 

Gator, thanks for putting me in touch. I've actually gotten PM's from two people, and have written them back. I hope to talk to them soon.
Since I badly bruised Tessie's little ears (both of them yesterday), I decided to wait another day to retest. By then hopefully I will have talked to both people and be better prepared.

Thanks so much,
Sandy

 

Almost forgot. Phoebe, thanks for the input on the lancers. I will check them out at Walgreens tomorrow. Husband has car today, so I'm homebound.

Sandy

 

LOL I can't free hand for the life of me, I have no idea how you all do it! I love my lancet device! I think the replacement was around $10 when I priced it.

 

I was just visited by a Christmas angel who gave me the gift of her time. She is an FDMB member, but prefers to be anonymous. This angel heard I was in trouble, so she called me, then made a long drive to my house tonight and taught me how to test Tessie Lou. She is a real pro, and she obviously cares a great deal for animals. She gave me tons of information, tips, encouragement and reassurance. She even brought supplies she thought I might need (and I did). We established a good location and method for testing, tested several times, then she showed me how much better the smaller gauge, U-100 syringes are than the U-40s I was using. Tessie didn't even flinch!

I want to thank Gator for putting me in touch with both my visitor and another member who also contacted me and gave me some really good suggestions and insights. And the free newbie kit I received got me to a point where I felt like I could TRY to test. Without seeing it and having it in my hands, I don't think I would have even tried. What a learning process this is!

Tonight, I think I'm going to sleep better than I have since Tessie's diagnosis almost a month ago. Tonight, I am at peace with this disease. I know I can do this now, thanks to the caring people on this message board. Thank you all.

P.S. I'll be posting Tessie's spreadsheet and profile soon.

 

That's soooo cool. Yea! Thank you Anonymous!

 

Hi all,
Tessie has been getting 2 units twice daily and has been transitioning over last 13 days to 100% Purina DM canned diet. She has been on 100% Purina since 12/30.

I did my first test on Tessie Lou at 6:30pm tonight (+8), and it was only 166. I checked her again at 10:20pm and she was at 226, but DH and I had a hard time testing her and she was really stressed. So we decided not to shoot tonight and check her in the a.m. Does this sound like the right decision?

Thanks,
Sandy

Tessie Lou
Black/orange/gray tabby
approx. 4 years old
16.2 lbs (down from 17.8 in July 2010)
Starting BG at diagnosis on 11/25/10 was 450
Started on ProZinc 2 units bid;
BG at vet's office 12/13/10 was 365; changed to 3 units bid
Reduced to 2 units bid and started 13-day transitioning to Purina DM canned on 12/17
Started 100% Purina DM canned on 12/30/10

 

Yes that was the right decision. You don't want to shoot 2 units with a lower bg like that.

Congratulations on getting some tests in. Aren't you glad that you tested and knew that she was too low to give insulin to?

When you get more comfortable with this process and have more data you will be able to give a token dose (a smaller amount of insulin) at a bg of 150 to 200.

Come back and post your AMPS for us.

Robin

 

Thanks for the confirmation, Robin. Yes, I was glad to have the 166 and know it was too low for insulin.
Tessie's AMPS was 352 this morning, shortly after feeding her 3 oz of Purina DM. So, I gave her 2 units. The testing is still a struggle, but I know it must be done.
I'm going to start a new thread once I get my spreadsheet ready. This one is getting too long.

Also, Robin, I was curious why you switched from Lantus to ProZinc? I read somewhere that Lantus has more remission successes than ProZinc?

Sandy

 

Those are pretty good #s though - 166 at +8 is nice for a nadir, and a PS of 226 at +12 is pretty ideal at this stage. Interesting that she didn't go up higher than 352 overnight.

The only concern I have is if you don't have much data, it's hard to know if the 2u is a good dose or not. I'd say it is fairly close by the #s you have, but if you have just finished a transition to lower carb food you may see the #s coming down more over the next few days, and that could change the picture. I can't remember how much carb the DM is - I'm thinking there are over-the-counter foods that are lower carb (and hopefully cheaper) if you are interested. Many of us feed Wellness or certain Fancy Feast flavors, at around 4% carbs. Some also have had really good results with Sophisticat (PetSmart?) or Special Kitty (WalMart?) if I recall.

Testing will definitely get easier as you get more practice, and as she learns it's not so bad afterall. Keep getting those PSs and if you can maybe one mid-cycle spot check a day (and vary the times if you can), and that will give you a better picture for evaluating the dose and knowing whether or not you can shoot that dose on the lower PSs like that when you see them again. Usually we recommend to people that it's ok to stick with the regular dose on anything 200 or above, but again until you have a little more data it makes sense to me to be cautious like you were.

 

Sandy, I'm late to this thread but wanted to offer you some encouragement anyway. You seem to be doing better with the testing and such now, but your earlier posts rang very familiar with me - I was the same way! Crying through failed tests, thinking I was never going to get the hang of things, etc. There's a steep learning curve in the beginning, that's for sure. My Sam is now back to his old self (maybe better!) even though his ps numbers hover in the 2-300's. He's on 2 units of Prozinc also and despite us switching to a LC diet, his dosage hasn't come down yet. I'm at peace with how he's doing though and you should try to feel the same about Tessie. You're doing a great job. Things will get better as you get more comfortable with this whole process. It's a tough disease, but with the amazing support and help here, it's definitely manageable!

 

Sandy...... Hi there from another newbie!

O ya... been there hon! (still there ;-) But testing is so very important and it really does get easier. I might have lost Bud (Bud's a girl) had I not been testing.

DH puts a flashlight under her ear and lances her over the flashlight. I put a very smooth emory board end under her ear. *shrug* whatevah works. And the ears will 'learn' to bleed. I find it's easier if I sit on the sofa and put her beside my thigh and lean over. Rubbing all her favorite spots and rubbing her ears for a few minutes until she's purring helps. I keep all the supplies in a little basket on the table and make sure that the meter is loaded before I lance her. Still, on a bad day, I sometimes have to poke her 3 times.

If food price is an issue, I've found 6 SophistiCats (Petsmart) with 0-4 carbs that she (and our other cat, Itty Bitty, both like) and it's about 40 cents a can. Gator told me to put some water over it and they love the 'juice' also.

Do you have Tessie's spread sheet up yet? I found it a bit hard to get it going (someone on here actually did it for me) but it is really easy to use. And the different colors for different BGs really help you 'see' what's going on.

Keep up the good work!

As for the great advice and the great folks in here... They really are angels.

 

Thanks for the input everyone! It is comforting to know I'm not alone in this.

Tessie's AMPS was 396 immediately following her breakfast of 1/2 can Purina DM (4.5 carbs), and so I gave her 1 unit. I'm planning to get a midpoint reading today around 3 or 4pm and then if she is in the 200s again tonight, I think I will give her another 1 unit. I skipped shot last night as she was only 210. I think it would be better to give two doses a day than just one, agreed?

Another looming problem: I am very curious about how everyone works (or doesn't work) with their vets. I think I am going to have to change vets because mine is opposed to home testing w/human glucometers, U-100 syringes, and even fought me on changing diet from dry Royal Canin High Fiber to lc Purina DM canned. That's the only concession she has made since Tessie's diagnosis. I have an appointment w/vet on Wed. for a BG blood draw and expect fireworks. My question is, are there a lot of vets out there who go along with home testing? Is my vet in the minority? Any input is appreciated. I plan to call some other vet clinics today. I don't want to change vets. She is close proximity, has inhouse lab and latest equipment. I thought she was progressive until this diagnosis. I'm going to post this question on the main forum as well.

Thanks again,
Sandy

 

Yes 2 shots a day are generally better than one. If you get something like the 210 again, instead of skipping the shot you can try a lower dose, that will usually help you stay on schedule, and also keep the #s from going as high overnight.

Good luck today! It will be interesting to see what data you get.

For vets, that is tough if your vet is fighting with you. My vet and I have had some disagreements, but she has been supportive and was the one who initially suggested I try home testing. I think that's a little uncommon though. Some things of course I just don't tell her, like she freaked out at the idea of the U100 syringes, so I just don't tell her now that I do that.

You could try printing out some things that are sort-of official and drop those off. For instance Dr. Rand discusses using human meters - if you go here: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html?page=41544 and then click on the Link to Article in the 2nd entry (Cats: Information on Use of NPH and Lente....), there is a paragraph on the 1st page discussing how to interpret the numbers from human meters vs. lab or animal meters. I'm sure there are other things around (there used to be a "How to Convince your Vet!" section, but I'm not sure where it is these days - maybe poke around in Health Links and the stickies on the L forums and you may find useful things). I'm thinking that most vets will probably respond better to something that's been written by another vet.

Ultimately though you are hiring the vet to give you advice & treatment. If they are fighting with you, that seems out of place to me (I mean, you're not paying them to ADD to your stress!!! ohmygod_smile ). I think it's good that you are calling some other vets - who knows, maybe you will stumble on one you really like.

 

Joanna... I read that article. So, using my ReliOn, if I get a 60, Bud's BG is really more like 90?

 

Oh gosh, sorry for the can of worms aspect. Don't even think about it frankly (if that's possible!). The majority here use human meters so all reference #s are in that respect. There is no consensus that I have seen on exactly what the #s are - some meters appear to run lower than others, not all human meters do that though necessarily, dual-meter testing has produced mixed results, etc. etc. If the thinking helps your vet, then it's useful, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. There is debate, for instance, on whether something like a 50 is actually a good and valid #, or it's really an 80 in disguise due to the meters. Who knows really, I am not a scientist, so I just have a viewpoint that works for me and keeps me sane, and I think that's what most people do - just pick a meter you like, stick with it, and go with the published guidelines for #s, and then don't worry about it beyond that.