New food charts x 2

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Lisa dvm, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Cat Food Composition chart:

    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

    Phosphorus in ascending order of mg/100 kcal:

    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Phosphorus 9-22-12.pdf

    Sweet Binky has tossed the baton to Robbie and he's probably laughing at him now saying..."see?!? I told you these food charts are A LOT of work!!"

    For the past many months... taking up hundreds of hours of time....with a boatload of frustration....I have called + emailed ~40 pet food companies to get TNA ('typical nutrient analysis') figures for cat foods. I also had not worked much with spreadsheets and formulas so that was also a struggle. THANK YOU, Janet, for your help in that area. I'd still be working on this if not for your expertise.

    Since I learned from the best (Janet) I, of course, would not use GA (guaranteed analysis) figures since they are only minimums and maximums which are inaccurate and misleading.

    Many companies required 5-6 phone calls....many emails.....and sometimes a lot of 'foot stomping'.... to get any usable information from them.

    For those companies that pulled out the "that information is proprietary" card? They ended up on the 'uncooperative' list at the bottom. Only 3 companies are on that list:

    Blue Buffalo
    By Nature
    Stella & Chewy's

    Mars (Sheba and Whiskas) company was concerned that the data would become outdated and so they require consumers to call them for data. Now...I don't know if they will give only GA or if they will provide TNA but, again, GA is not acceptable as far as I am concerned.

    Note that when I discussed carb content with the Blue Buffalo customer service rep, I learned that all of their diets are unsuitably high in carbs except for the Wilderness Pates (Kitten, Chicken, Turkey, Duck, and Salmon). The Wilderness Wild Delights are high in carbs.

    But that said, I will not patronize any company that refuses to provide TNA data. There are far too many other choices on the market from companies that show more respect for consumers. Wilderness may be low in carbs but without protein and fat data, we are still in the dark.

    Keep in mind: Grain-free does not necessarily mean low carb. Peas, potatoes, etc., create very high carb diets but are not "grains".
     
  2. Dr. Lisa,
    A huge thank you for all of your effort!
    Now, if we can just get you to come back for a sec....the links are "broken" and take me to an "oops" message :smile:

    Carl
     
  3. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Ok...so the links did not paste in full. I will see if I can fix that.

    For now, go to catinfo.org and look in the sidebar....protein/fat/carbs chart and Phosphorus in cat food chart.
     
  4. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I never noticed the URL option thingie at the top but I fixed the links in the first post.
     
  5. dian and wheezer

    dian and wheezer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    awesome job Dr. L
     
  6. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    Fabulous!!! Thank you so much, Dr. Lisa!
     
  7. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you for putting in the time and the effort.
     
  8. Jane & Jack & Karre the Emperor

    Jane & Jack & Karre the Emperor Well-Known Member

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    Dec 30, 2009
    Fantastic post! Thank you so much, Dr. Pierson!

    Jane
     
  9. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you so very much, Dr. Lisa!!
     
  10. Sheri & Spyder (GA)

    Sheri & Spyder (GA) Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    WAY TO GO DR LISA \M/
     
  11. Michelle and Mannie (GA)

    Michelle and Mannie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    THANK YOU! So appreciated!!
     
  12. Maggies Mom Debby

    Maggies Mom Debby Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks for your hard work. Is Janet (& Binky) retiring?
     
  13. Sandy and Boris

    Sandy and Boris Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you so much for all your hard work and no doubt a lot of frustration putting this list together.

    Though Boris (my diabetic boy) went to the bridge over a year ago the food list is very important to me. I now have a kitty with gall stones and I am trying to feed her low fat and a little high fat. She is on Ursodial and gets a little higher fat food on the days she gets the urso. With the new list I have been able to pick out a few more options of lower fat food I can try to introduce her to.
    I also like to print the list for my vet to refer to and to help guide any one I should meet with a diabetic cat.
    Very grateful to you!
    Sandy
     
  14. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Fantastic! Thank you so much for all of your hard work!
     
  15. arozeboom

    arozeboom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2011
    Thank you so much!

    I did get a little bit of information from Stella & Chewy's last week, but they were slightly elusive on the "as fed" numbers.
    What they gave me they called “as-fed guaranteed analysis”. I'm not sure they mean by that.
     
  16. Lisa and Merlyn (GA)

    Lisa and Merlyn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Awesome job Dr. Lisa!! Way to go! Thank you for all the work you put into this, continuing on what Janet and Binky built.
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    For a cat which has had bladder stones - what minerals should we all be looking to control? Phosphorus? Magnesium? Other?

    And in a house with non-diabetic cats (well ... at the moment), what is the highest level of carbs that should be fed - 10%, other?
     
  18. Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA

    Sheila & Beau GA & Jeddie GA Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you! For this an your wonderful website.
     
  19. Janet & Binky (GA)

    Janet & Binky (GA) Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you so much for taking this on! It's been weighing on my mind for the past few years that I haven't had the motivation to keep it up. Aside from the sheer volume, it has been harder and harder to get complete and accurate data from companies.

    And yes, I am retiring from the food table biz. Some time in the next week or so, I will shut down the old food lists -- and keep in mind the numbers are at least 4 years old now, and some are even older -- and put up a link to Dr. Lisa's page.
     
  20. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    As you and I discussed, several companies had to be informed that they would be listed on the "Do not/cannot recommend" list if they did not provide TNA data. It also did not hurt to let them know that my website has a very high google ranking and gets ~1.7 million visitors each year....and that a negative, but truthful, comment on the Commercial Food page would probably impact their sales somewhat. Not much for the really big companies but it might make a little dent in the smaller companies. That tact worked on most companies dragging their feet but a few still ended up on the 'uncooperative' list.

    Regarding "accurate data", see this post:

    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79754
     
  21. Tara & Buster

    Tara & Buster Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2012
    Absolutely fantastic work, Dr. L! Really, really appreciate the efforts. It's upsetting and overwhelming enough to work through the initial FD diagnosis and all the things that come with it. It's nice to have a resource like your food lists to help the brain pain! I'd probably be mumbling and holding myself, rocking in a corner if I had to work out all those numbers. Many many thanks!! :thumbup
     
  22. Nicole & Baby

    Nicole & Baby Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I appreciate your time and effort more than words can express, thank you sooooooo much!! :D
     
  23. GregFurBall

    GregFurBall Well-Known Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
    Thank you soooo much for all your hard work and research. Fur Ball was just dx'd on 9/5/12 and when I came home, your website was the first one I reviewed. I have taken so many of your words to heart. Doing more research this weekend, I just saw your updated info and today as I'm getting familiar with this sight, I noticed this post.

    While I would like to make Fur Ball's food, at this point we were able to transition him to Nature's Variety Instinct Raw medallions. We were amazed at how quickly our dry kibble boy transitioned to Raw...we started him on different canned foods as I was doing raw food research. Found a local store on Sat and by Tues he was eating all raw.

    We just want you to know how much we have appreciated your information, as well as FDMB.

    Thanks!!
    Karen (and Fur Ball)
     
  24. Lori&Scout

    Lori&Scout Member

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    Jan 18, 2012
    Hi Dr. Lisa,

    I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into this. I can now go to the store armed with an up-to-date and comprehensive list and not spend an hour squinting over the ingredients list. I've been trying to pick some more non-fish flavors to put into the rotation. THANK YOU!!!!

    Lori (and Scout and Nipper)
     
  25. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 17, 2011
    you're fantastic! and i am truly grateful for your time and effort. thank you!
     
  26. Maresydotes

    Maresydotes Member

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    Aug 31, 2011
    Thank you for taking the time to do this and thank you for caring!
     
  27. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks, Dr. Lisa :D I've posted your food chart links on another web site for other cat owners to use :smile:

    I'm not surprised to see that most of the Weruva canned foods are very high in carbs despite the fact that the company claims that all their canned foods are very low in carbs and are suitable for diabetics :roll: All that rice and starches means high carbs.

    Soulistic is also made by the Weruva company. I'm not sure if you want to keep it separate from Weruva? BFF is another Weruva brand and is listed under Weruva on the chart.
     
  28. missyandlittlegray

    missyandlittlegray Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Thank you, Dr. Lisa. I refer people to the food chart all the time. Sort of disappointed in Stella and Chewy's though. Some of my cats love it.
     
  29. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks!

    I know. I really like the owner of the company - very nice and he truly cares..... but some nutritional basics were not being understood. I feel foolish that I had stated in the past that Weruva was low in carbs - based on what the owner told me but then when I sat down and crunched the numbers I could see that they are not low in carbs.

    Yep... but it belongs on its own since people will look for it under the 'S's not the W section. Soulistic as a private label for PetCo and is not listed on the Weruva website....at least not on the main page....whereas BFF is. But maybe BFF should also be under the 'B's....????

    Evolve, Triumph, and Hi-Tor are all made by the same company but people think of them as different diets so they are listed alphabetically.

    I wonder if I should move BFF to the Bs......

    Thoughts?
     
  30. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I would vote for BFF going under "B"...I have bought it before and it does not say Weruva anywhere on the can. I believe it was even in a seperate section in the store.
     
  31. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Ok - I will move it under the "B"s which makes more sense since it does not even say "Weruva" on the can.
     
  32. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    What about Cats in the Kitchen? Does that say Weruva on the packaging?
     
  33. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Never mind...went to the website and see that it does say "Weruva" so I will leave it where it is.
     
  34. Carol & Yoshi

    Carol & Yoshi Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Dr Lisa and YOU ROCK! Wow, what a lot of time and effort you have put into this endeavor but this info will be used, the links passed on so hopefully some cats that are eating crap now will have a chance for healthier feline fare (I've converted some non-FD friends and gonna keep at it), and it will help so many to learn/figure out the best food for their kitties. Not to mention maybe more veterinarians will learn to use those charts and refer their clients to them.

    A huge THANK YOU!!!
     
  35. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I hope so. The vets on VIN have been using Binky's chart for years.

    The catalyst for updating the chart was/is a paper that I am writing for my colleagues entitled "Veterinarian-Prescribed Diets/OTC Options". After pointing our reasons why I do not use the Rx diets (80 pages worth), I figured that I could not say "don't do X" and then not be able to tell them "I suggest Y".
     
  36. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    The Weruva company makes three brands: Weruva, B.F.F, and Soulistic.

    The Weruva line has the Weruva canned and The Cats In the Kitchen pouches.

    B.F.F is the all seafood based brand: http://www.bestfriendsfoods.com/

    Soulistic is the inexpensive version of Weruva and is sold only at Petco. http://www.soulisticpet.com/

    I vote for keeping each brand separate even if the same company makes them. The general public will use your charts by brand name, not company name.
     
  37. Harley and Pattie

    Harley and Pattie Well-Known Member

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    Apr 5, 2010
    Thank you Dr. Lisa. All your hard work is much appreciated.

    pattie
     
  38. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I went ahead and put BFF under the 'B's and kept Soulistic under the 'S's and Cats in the Kitchen under Weruva so I think I have it correct now.
     
  39. Carolyn and Spot

    Carolyn and Spot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    This.
    Thank you for this phenomenally exhausting undertaking, Dr. Lisa. And thank you too, Janet, for all the years you have done this for cats around the world. You both deserve copious amounts of sinful beverages. :lol:

    I find it quite interesting that the 3 uncooperative companies tout themselves as the highest quality foods you can feed your pets. You'd think they'd be falling all over themselves to prove it. Instead they have proved they have something to hide.
     
  40. Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)

    Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you Dr. Lisa!

    I too have been trying to figure this out cause both of my cats can benefit from lower phosphorus diets. But Alex who is diabetic can't eat what I am trying to switch Jackson to (not diabetic-Science Diet KD)as it seems one of the main ingredients is glucose? Just what Alex needs... :roll:

    It's good to see all of the other lower phos. alternatives cause Alex has been getting sick of Fancy Feast(which I know is high) and maybe now I can find something for both of them.

    Thanks!!!!

    Caryl (Alex and Jackson)
     
  41. arozeboom

    arozeboom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2011
    I had seen someplace that the Friskies Special Diet flavors are "acidified". Do you have any information on that?
     
  42. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

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    Jan 7, 2010
    Thank you so much, Dr. Lisa! I saw the lists yesterday and became totally involved w/ them. Interesting that the NV Raw Chicken and Organic Chicken flavors are so much lower than we though before. It explains why Tess went up when I brought the beef into rotation and back down now that we got the chicken again.

    Also it is so helpful to be able to compare the "mg Phos/100 kcal" and the "DM Phos %". The calorie in the food make such a difference. I've highlighted a lot fewer in the "mg Phos/100 kcal" column than in the "DM Phos %" column.

    One quick question: In the calories/can column, when you list the first item in a grouping as a specific sized can, does that apply to all the foods in that group? For instance the Royal Canin "Babycat" is "77/3 oz" but only the kcal appears in the rest of the Royal Canin group. The kcal are similar in the rest of the group so am I correct in assuming that they are all 3oz cans?
     
  43. RobbiesMom

    RobbiesMom Member

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    Jul 27, 2010
    SO helpful - thank you so much.
     
  44. Leslie and Jasper

    Leslie and Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Jul 19, 2012
    Thank you Dr Lisa! Super helpful!
     
  45. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Dr, Lisa, I heard that Soulistic just put out several new canned varieties:

    Seaside Serenity Salmon & Tuna with Gravy
    Tri-Fusion Tuna with Grilled Salmon, Beef & Duck with Gravy
    Aromatic Chicken with Gelee
    Golden Fortune Chicken & Tuna with Gelee

    They're not listed on the Soulisitic web site but they are on the Petco web site: http://www.petco.com/product/110264/Soulistic-Adult-Canned-Cat-Food-in-Gravy.aspx

    Just an FYI if you want to add these to the chart the next time you do updates :smile:
     
  46. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I am in contact with the owner but there is no usable data at this time. This has been a big problem with several companies.....
     
  47. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    In that case, yes. I got SO tired of typing/copying/pasting. This chart thing really 'tried my patience and time'.....

    The column is labeled "kcals/5.5 oz unless otherwise noted" but I figured that it was pretty self-explanatory that the varieties under the RC Kitten were per 3 oz since the other values were so low but if I get a chance, I will go back and fill in the "/3 oz" for each variety.

    Also, when I went to do the second chart...the phos chart....I realized that I had to name EVERY can because they would now not be grouped under their respective company headings. That about stopped me in my tracks! Very tedious to name every product.
     
  48. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Thanks! :D :D If you every want help entering data, etc, PM me. If you just add another column for can size, you can have auto-fill do all the work. I actually just converted the PDF back into a SS so I can have the computer do the work of calculating into kcal/oz, easier to compare for me. Added plus, I can auto color code for low carb and low phos foods. There aren't a lot that are both. :?
     
  49. Me too, Dr. Lisa! I'm an excel geek so if you ever need help with data entry, formulas, all that junk, I'd be happy to help. :smile:

    Carl
     
  50. Deborah & Shasta

    Deborah & Shasta Well-Known Member

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    Jul 12, 2012
    Can I just say, You're amazing!!!! Thank you for all of your hard work, dedication, and expertise! Thank you!
     
  51. Deb & Yahtzee

    Deb & Yahtzee Member

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    Aug 13, 2012
    THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! I don't even know how to fully express my sincere appreciation!

    I understand how HUGE an undertaking this project was. I tried on several occasions to contact food companies to get TNA info and was met with nearly everything under the sun... except for the info I wanted.

    Thank you, these lists will be cherished my sooooo many!!
     
  52. Ann & Tess GA

    Ann & Tess GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    It would be wonderful to be able to give our vets a reference to your paper. Where will it be published? Can you provide a link when you are done w/ it? I realize we may not be able to access a professional sit, but our vets should be able to. It would hold a lot more weight with them than for us to just say "look what I found online"! My vet makes a face every time I mention raw, but Tess is doing so well on it.
     
  53. bradie96

    bradie96 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    thank you so much, i dont have my diabetic patches anymore but i have kept my civvie molly on the low carb diet and will use for future family members

    thank you again for all the hard work!!!
     
  54. Lisa & Leo

    Lisa & Leo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Dear Dr Lisa

    We are newly diagnosed and struggling with all the information to do the right thing, and it is wonderful to have this list and be able to see how food affects numbers, and how to plan a diet with more confidence. Thank you so much for doing this - your work will be referenced for YEARS! Good luck on the publication. I'll forward your work to my vet.

    Lisa & Leo
     
  55. PeterDevonMocha

    PeterDevonMocha Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thank you so much for taking the time to update this list! Does anyone know if the special kitty information from the previous list is still correct? I didn't see it on the updated list, but maybe I missed it?
     
  56. WickedSteppMom

    WickedSteppMom Member

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    Oct 4, 2011
    I was also wondering if PetSmart's Grreat Choice (formerly Sophistacat) info on previous lists is still correct, since I didn't see it on this list?
     
  57. kphmitten

    kphmitten Member

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    Feb 26, 2011
    Thank you so much for this!
     
  58. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

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    Dec 10, 2011
    Thanks a ton for doing the dirty work for some updated info! :lol:

    I'd really like to see Petsmart's Grreat Choice (formerly Sophistacat) and Special Kitty on there... they're great low cost foods.... even if the info was taken from Janet and Binky's, just so it's all on one chart!
     
  59. Helen & Snickers

    Helen & Snickers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Decided to come here today and poke around and see if there were any updated charts, as my civvie Sasha was just DX'ed with CKD and isn't a fan of the vet food, although Snickers is (figures). Thanks for helping me find some low phosphorus varieties to try on her.
     
  60. nutterbutter

    nutterbutter Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Thanks Lisa for this list.

    I just picked up Nutter's Purina DM last night and when I opened the can, it was't the usual formula. It had chunks and gravy. Nutter and Boo ate it right up, but I came here to see if it was healthy for Nutter. He's been in remission so long, there's no way I'm taking a chance. Your list is perfect. I like to give the boys a little variety and now I have better choices.

    I will be talking with my vet about the change in formula. I'd prefer the old one because Nutter has maintained so well on that.

    Thanks again

    Linda (Nutter and Boo's mom)
     
  61. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011

    Yes, the Purina DM formula changed. I would stop feeding it... you'd save a lot of money switching to a store brand and DM has low quality ingredients anyway.

     
  62. sehjak (Susan & Lanky)

    sehjak (Susan & Lanky) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Wonderful work & greatly appreciated. Will be sharing with our veterinarians too. Glad to see this info will be published. Please let us know when/where so we may share that too.
    Thanks again,
    Susan & Lanky
     
  63. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009

    There are actually 2 Purina DM canned formulas now: the regular pate one and a new Savory Selects that is in gravy. Both are listed on Dr. Lisa's new chart. The regular DM is 3% carbs and the Savory Select one is 10% carbs.

    http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Product/DMDieteticManagementCatFood.aspx

    The ingredients for both are really awful as well as the price :-Q It's like paying $20 for a chocolate jelly filled donut. You can buy much better quality commerical canned food for a lot less money.
     
  64. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Lisa

    I haven't been to FDMB in forever but thought I'd lurk today...what a great post, thanks! I immediately forwarded the lists to my vet who has a wellworn copy in her office from 'the old days'.....

    Much regards

    Jennifer
     
  65. Sandy96

    Sandy96 Member

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Thank you so much for all your hard work in compiling this for all of us! I saved it to my comp so I can print it off and take it with me to my next vet appt and show my vet that the food they told me not to feed Sandy is actually much better for her than the stuff they prescribed, that incidentally, she doesnt like. I feed my kitties Natures Variety instinct and up until she was dx'd with FD they also got about a 1/4 c daily of a higher end (less grain) dry food. I am so glad my sister pointed me to this forum and hopefully I will be able to get Sandy OTJ as quick as she got Tasha OTJ (with in 2 weeks).
    Danielle and Sandy
     
  66. grapey

    grapey Member

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    Mar 28, 2012
    What an unbelievable resource!! I can't thank you enough.
     
  67. theruss

    theruss Member

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    Jul 10, 2012
    I'm a little late to the party...despite that, THANKS SO MUCH!!!

    R
     
  68. lynn and bear (ga)

    lynn and bear (ga) Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    This is amazing and you are awesome for doing it. You are the reason this little bear is slurping on raw chicken flesh every day. Thank you x1000!
     
  69. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Oh...yum! :D
     
  70. d0zivyhoo

    d0zivyhoo Member

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    Nov 21, 2012
    Dr. Pierson, I can't begin to tell you how many of us are SO appreciative of all of your hard work. I have spent hours/days going over your charts in search of nutrient contents, and I can only imagine how much time it took you to compile it.

    Unfortunately, I am a mommy to a multiple-issue kitty and as such am a member of multiple support groups. Your name and chart are recommended on all of the boards.

    Today, I sought the counsel of a holisitic vet regarding nutrition for my baby, and she admires you greatly.

    Thanks again.

    DZ and Sarah
     
  71. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    A note of "thanks" to all of you for your kind words!

    In making the chart.....the close-to-1,000 hours of time was not nearly as frustrating as actually dealing with pet food companies.....
     
  72. Amanda

    Amanda Member

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    Mar 4, 2010
    I am also late to the party but want to add my thanks!
     
  73. d0zivyhoo

    d0zivyhoo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Dr. Lisa, while we have your attention (other than again thanking you for such an amazing effort), there is someting on your chart that I've always wondered about. There is nothing in the dry analysis column for the Royal Canin veterinary diets. And, I can't find any internet information to calculate it myself. Might I inquire how we can interpret those results?

    Thanks!

    DZ and Sarah
     
  74. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Call the company but....why not just focus on the calories? Energy basis makes much more sense to use than DMB.
     
  75. d0zivyhoo

    d0zivyhoo Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    I really appreciate your reply!

    Unfortunately, my kitty has the dreaded three: CKD, pancreatitis as well as diabetes (which she incurred using k/d). So, I really do need figure out as close to exact the fat, carbs, phosphorus and protein content. Lucky me, poor kitty.

    I was just wondering, since you had completed the dry analysis on the other foods. And, from what everyone tells me, it is the dry analysis that's important, and I have no idea how to convert it all from the calorie content you provided. I do know the formula using the moisture content, etc. to start from.

    I will contact Royal Canin.

    Thanks!

    DZ and Sarah
     
  76. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Well....good luck with the "exact" issue!

    Please understand that none of these figures are even close to being exact - whether ME or DMB.

    And these people would be folks who are not very well-versed in nutrition.

    You really are barking up a needless tree. Don't spin your wheels trying to pin down DMB versus ME since 10% on the chart - no matter if it is ME or DMB - could be 5% one day and 20% the next. For the fat....something listed at 60% could be 50-70%...give or take.

    Do NOT take any of these values so literally! And stop worrying about DMB vs ME......

    With regard to carb values on ANY chart, they are inherently inaccurate since they are a 'dumping ground' for all math rounding issues as well as in accuracies in the rest of the macronutrients.....and fat values vary WIDELY from batch-to=batch.

    I just hate to see people take these charts too literally.

    If you really want control over what you feed to your cat, you need to make your own cat food. If you are sticking with commercial, again, don't spin your wheels worrying so much about values due to their substantial variation.
     

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