New here and new to Diabetes - updated Jan 16

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Shawna & Davidson (GA), Jan 6, 2014.

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  1. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Hi.........I'm Shawna and "Davidson" and I live in Fort Erie, Ontario, Canada. He's the brother of Harley (yeah, I know) and in mid November during an appt. for dental cleaning blood work was done and showed high gloucose levels. More tests were done and Davidson was diagnosed with Diabetes and my vet put him on w/d dry food. I mixed it with the old food (also Science Diet) with 85% w/d and he likes it. I read up a bit on feline diabetes and the symptoms were now obvious noticing the drinking and urination. I left for a 3 week vacation and had a pet sitter who I kept in contact with and she said nothing really changed. Got home Saturday night and yesterday noticed his gait was off and he was sitting in front of his water bowl. He also has lost weight since being diagnosed and seems lighter since before I left, as well he's not walking up on his paws as he used to.

    I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow to get another blood test done and the vet thinks he may need to go on insulin since the w/d food should have been working to change his gloucose levels. Blood tests will show the vet what needs to be done.

    Question: Did mixing the w/d food with the old type food offset what it was supposed to do, or has there not been enough time on the new food to take effect - been about 5 weeks?? I also see from reading on this board that most give up dry food and use only wet, however my vet said that the w/d dry is good and not to worry. In case he has to get insulin can it be in the pill form as I am terrified of needles and may find it hard to give them to Davidson based on my personal fear factor.

    Any help or suggestions will be apprecaited and I am 10 min. from Buffalo and can go over the border for any devices I need to buy.

    Thanks, and BTW, Harley is clean and both have no other 'cat' issues. Oh - he's 11.5 yrs old and has been 17 lbs since around 3 yrs old and now is 15 lbs which could be due to the food change and/or diabetes

    Shawna
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    We have a very successful protocol that gets most cats into regulation and many into remission. But it requires wet low carb food. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. Eating high carb food would be like a diabetic eating donuts daily...... And our program requires insulin. The pill taxes the pancreas instead of letting it recover like insulin does.

    We'd be glad to help you figure this out and provide some scientific/vet studies for your vet. The general thinking is that you have a limited time to allow the pancreas to help - dry high carb food and the pill just wastes that valuable time
     
  3. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Welcome Shawna and extra sweet Davidson! Your cats' names made me smile!

    Honestly, I thought I could never give my girl shots. But it's so easy. She really doesn't even notice. She's purred right through it! Remember, as kittens they get carried around by the scruff...a quick poke is nothing! Don't stress...you can do this!

    The W/D food is crap I believe. Sue recommended a great article. I have read it many times. It explains things so well!

    Don't stress! You CAN do this!
     
  4. Sandra&Barney(GA)

    Sandra&Barney(GA) Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Welcome to you and Davidson.You have found the best place to learn about how to treat Davidson's diabetes.Dry food is high in carbohydrates which shoot up the BG's.Wet food is a better choice, as long as it isn't loaded with fillers, rice, grains, potatoes.

    I, too, was terrified of giving Barney(GA) his shot.It made my hand shake the fear of hurting him was so great.I, too, HATE needles, to this day, personally and would rather leave the dr's office instead of getting a shot.

    You CAN do it, with the help of this board.We all have been where you are now, and we got through it, and our cat's loved us for helping them with their diabetes. Keep posting and ask questions, you will be amazed at how you can be such a good cat mother.
     
  5. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Lantus and Levemir may be purchased much less expensively in Canada without a prescription. Both have 100 units per mL (U-100). Both of these have substantial carry over between shots, what we call a depot. Optimal use requires giving insulin at almost exactly 12 hour intervals and dose adjustments are based on a minimum of 3 to 5 days of the same dose and test values at the nadir, or lowest glucose level between shots.

    If you go with either of these, get the cartridges (Canada) or pens, plus syringes to draw out the insulin. Each cartridge or pen is 3 mL (300 units) and they come in 5 packs. There are 10 mL vials, however you may not use all of it before it begins to lose effectiveness. Stored on a stationary shelf in your refrigerator, the 3 mL quantity may be used until gone. (The 28 day expiration is for humans who don't refrigerate.)

    ProZinc requires a prescription and has 40 units per mL (U-40). It is an in and out insulin with minimal carry over between shots.You often can adjust the dose based on pre-shot values. It comes in a 10 mL vial (400 units)

    On a per unit basis, Lantus is less expensive than ProZinc, especially if you can get it in Canada.
     
  6. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Thanks for the info............jsut came back from the Vet and a blood test was done and Davidson lost 1.2 lbs in 6 weeks and the test was at 28.6 which is very high. I was told 3-8.6 was normal and under stress with being at the Vet a reading of 15 was high, so he's off the chart. They are doing a curve (guess I have to find out about that) and I'm going back at 5pm to learn how to inject insulin.

    I was told he needed it in 12 hrs intervals - what do you do when you have an active lifestyle and cannot necessarily be around every day to give a needle?? I know I have to adjust my lifestyle and perhaps they will come up with an injection that is done once per day.

    I'm switching to just wet food and read the blub on food types but didn't see the Nutrience brand, which I have on hand and seems to have the same ingredients as the Merrick 96%. This is a totally new education for me and a real shock. Do we have the same type of Forum in Canada, as this is VERY helpful but there are hours of reading to be done.

    I'm not sure what the Vet is going to give me for insulin, but I guess I can go shopping before hand and buy the needles needed?? Not even sure what they are or where to go............I'll learn as like most of you, we have to do it!
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    You'll need to decide what you're willing to do:
    - adjust your schedule
    - enlist others to test and shoot when you cannot
    - use ProZinc due to its flexibility - tell the vet

    Contact thefood manufacturer and request the "as fed" values.
     
  8. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Glad he is getting insulin. I hope the vet will start on a low dose and increase slowly, as blood glucose curves done at the vet can be much higher than at home since stress raises levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. we suggest starting at one unit and slowly increasing, basing on home testing.

    Here is a recent thread on food in Canada: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=111332

    We like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. We think Vetsulin (Canninsulin) and Humulin are too harsh and shorter lasting and harder to regulate with. The needles will depend on the insulin - either U100 for the two L insulins and U40 for the ProZinc. As soon as you find out which type, we can show you the protocol for using it. ProZinc is a little more adaptable in terms of dosing - 30 minutes to 60 off schedule may be a possibility if you have data from home testing. But there is no insulin that can be given to cats once daily. They metabolize it too fast. Your best bet is to start testing at home, be proactive in terms of dosing based on your numbers, feed low carb food and hope he is one of the lucky ones who go into remission. Then both of you will get your full lives back! Truthfully, it becomes routine and takes only a few minutes out of your day.
     
  9. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    My foster cat Wink was prescribed the W/d food (37% carbs) by the vets and his BG(blood glucose) levels were always high. It wasn't until I switched him to a low carb canned food diet ( like Fancy feast pate style, Friskies pate style all <10% carbs) that he started to respond and went into remission. This was after being unregulated about 3.5 months at the shelter where he was eating grain free dry foods like Acana (still very high carb) and also being allowed to eat whatever they had out for the other shelter cats like Friskies dry food or other high carb dry foods.

    So in my experience, the W/D dry food is too high in carbs and is not good for a diabetic cat, not matter what the vets insist.
     
  10. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I just spoke to her on the phone ( she PM me and asked if she could). Tomorrow she is going shopping for a Relion confirm or micro etc.

    She has stopped all dry food right now and is returning the WD wet and dry the vet gave her. She will be feeding Merricks BG for now and will consider fancy feast pates later.

    The vet gave her caninsulin. She hasn't started it yet and I gave her a few documents on Lantus to show her vet - however since the vet didn't mention ketones (and she is buying ketone strips), she is going to do a short food trial first to give her a starting point.

    Wendy
     
  11. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Thanks to everyone and Wendy for being such a BIG help during a time when first time owners like me experience Diabetes............it's very over whelming to say the least, confusing and totally foreign to me. I've been readiing all day on the different forums on te internet and most say exactly the same thing like on this site. Wendy confirmed what I read and was so helpful in re-assuring me that Lantus is the way to go, along with testing daily at home. I'm not so sure my vet is as 'up to date' on the various insulin Mfg's and he's only been used for the past 3 yrs when Harley & Davidson get their annual shots. I have no history with him since I just moved to the Niagara area a few years ago and I'll be making some calls tomorrow to other vets and see what they say. My vet is well received in this area, but perhaps a bit closed minded when it comes to alternatives.

    This has been a GREAT learning curve and fast and the information received on this site is priceless!!!

    Thanks and I'll update you shortly.

    Shawna
     
  12. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Update:

    She bought the relion confirm and got a test today - 22 I think it was (mmol/L). Thats down from 28 at the vets but obviously still way too high. The dry is probably still in his system at this point though.

    Also picked up ketone strips.

    She also picked up a variety of LC FF and Friskies

    She spoke to her vet who said he does know Lantus but doesn't like it as much because it doesn't give a flat curve like it does in humans, and because it isn't officially sanctioned for use in cats. However he did propose PZI. He was fine with her home testing for BG and ketones - he said he doesn't normally recommend home blood testing as it freaks people out. (interesting.)

    She is planning to test diet control for a couple of days and meanwhile will discuss PZI with her vet

    Wendy
     
  13. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Just to correct my Vet's comments on home testing..........he said most don't like to do it because it's not comfortable for them, but certainly feels it is useful if the owners can do it. Maybe the small town I live in is not as 'up to date' as the bigger cities which is why he prmotes the Caninsulin? Not sure, and only a few weeks ago did he hay that PZI was appoved (maybe not those words exactly) and he will have it on Friday...........Davidson is changing as he's not peeing nearly as much as he waqs before changing to wet food and the pee is now in roundish balls and not oblong shapes. As well, while on dry and peeing tons he got his feet all wet and the litter stuck to it, then dripped all over the floor and up the stairs - I washed the floors yesterday when he was at the vet for the day getting tested, and since 6pm last night and now there is no dripping, no mess and in fact he harldy drank any water from his bowl (yes, understand wet food has lots of water) and seems like he feels heavier. Both he and Harley love the Fancy Feast and no problem changing over.........I'm donating the 25 lbs of dry food to the local shelter tomorrow.

    Question........since they were on dry food for 11.5 yrs how much wet should I give them with weights at 11 and 14 lbs. Can the wet stay out all night if they don't finish it, or will it go rancid?

    Thanks
    Shawna
     
  14. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I routinely leave the food out 12 hours for the civvies.

    Avoid a location near the refrigerator exhaust as it dries the food out and blows the smell around.
     
  15. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Leaving the wet food out all night is fine, it won't go bad overnight. If it seems to dry out too much, you can try adding about a tablespoon of water to the canned food, stir to mix, and the extra water keeps the food moister longer. Think applesauce consistency on the food.

    How much to feed? Hard to say. My cats eat around 0.5 ounces a day per pound of body weight. That means my 7 pound civie Delta gets 4-5 ounces, 12 pound Monet gets 6 ounces and 10.5 pound Wink eats 6 ounces. You'll notice that Wink and Monet get the same amount of food a day, even though their weights are different. I've found that these amounts help them to maintain their body weights so it's what I feed. ECID.

    My 3 kitties get weighed twice a week, average the weights and I adjust food intake up or down as needed. Like right now, Wink seems to need a tiny bit more food each day, about a teaspoon or 2 to keep him at his ideal weight.

    You may have to experiment a little to find the correct amounts of food for your 2 kitties, Davidson and Harley.

    This body condition scoring chart may also help you to determine if their current weights are good for them or not.
     
  16. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    UPDATE:

    Okay, big changes for Davidson since putting on wet food only Jan 7th - 6pm...........firstly no more lakes in the litter box and the water bowl remains 75% full as it always did before. The pee isn't rolling down his legs, or he's not stepping in it to make unsightly drip marks all along the floor and up the stairs - in fact since cleaning up while he was at the vet all day Tuesday there isn't a drop any where.

    I have the data from the Vet and they did the 'curve' and here are the numbers from Jan 7 day at the vet:

    3 units of Caninsulin given at 9:45am
    BG - 12pm is 30.3
    BG - 2:30 is 24.3
    BG - 4:30 is 24.1
    BG - 5:30 is 25.2

    Got home and fed Fancy feast wet at 6:30pm, then again in the morning on Jan 8th and then went to get the ReliOn stuff to test at home. I've been home testing his BG levels since and here's what I have so far:

    Jan 8:
    BG 5:15pm is 22.38
    BG 10pm is 15

    Jan 9:
    BG 6am is 18 before feeding
    BG 8:45am is 18.22
    BG 4:35pm is 18.94

    Just fed him at 5:30 and will do another test, but not sure when to do this one - any help as to how long after feeding for the BG testing?

    BETTER NEWS:

    Changing Vets as did some calling to Canadian Vets in my area, read lots and decided to buy Lantus, 1500ml in the 5 pen thingy, with the new Accu-Chek tester and all the goodies - forgot the scale so that's tomorrows job. I'm taking back the Caninsulin and feel my Vet (only used him a few times for yearly vaccines since moving here) is too 'old school' and my interest is with Davidson and I'm not comfortable based on what I hear on THIS FORUM and speaking to Wendy and other people thru friends who have first hand experience with their pets and Diabetes.

    QUESTION:

    I'll go a few more days to make sure the carbs are out of his system and stay on wet for from here on in - but is he still needing to go on insulin or is he okay with diet change and monitoring?? He weights 14.2 lbs last weigh in at Vet which was before the change to wet food and he looks much better so may have put on some weight, I'll know tomorrow. What is the magic number to decide when he should go on insulin?? I have it now and can keep it around but if you think he does not ned it yet and his numbers still can come down then please let me know. There must be a "BG count" that stipulates when to go on insulin from diet monitoring.

    THANKS TO EVERYONE for the valuable input..........this is REALLY GREAT!!

    Shawna, Davidson and Harley too
     
  17. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Reference ranges for decision making from an old post by BJM.

    [Glucose reference ranges are unsubstantiated and have been removed by Moderator]

    So, if the BG levels remain above 11.1 mmol/L, then it's time to get your cat started on insulin.
     
  18. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    The 18 is still high. We want him between 2.8 and 7.2. But we don't advise newbies shoot under 11.1 so if he goes under that and stays there we might try food longer. If he doesn't go under 11.1 then you would need to start insulin. But let's see if he keeps dropping.

    Anyway with lantus you can get a pack of pens for &100 at loblaws or costco. The pens last longer since you only "open" one at a time and they don't break easy. However you don't want the syringe tips they come with, those aren't accurate enough for cats. You want proper u100 insulin syringes ie the bd ultra fine Ii 3/10 cc syringes.

    To help his pancreas in the meanwhile I would feed him mini meals through the day instead of two large meals. Large meals can stress the pancreas. Some people here use a timed feeder if not home or freeze the food and leave it to defrost.
    Wendy
     
  19. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Thanks but being new on this (2 days) all the terminology is garbled to me and with his numbers that high I understand to start the insulin. However, 2 days ago he was at 29+ and I put him on wet food and there is a huge drop. So, should I wait a couple days to see if he drops further or is the gap too big? I have no idea since it's all foreign to me.

    I now see Wendy's response but they sold me the pen type and the needles are separate. I had asked for that U100 and they said the pens were easiest. I think I am screwed as there is no returning of diabetic stuff, although I just spoke to them and they said call the pharmasist tomorrow and they should be able to do something for me.

    Here is what I bought - is this the right product

    Lantus 100 U/mL 5 x 3 mL SoloStar injection pens
    ultra fine pen needles 4mm 32G

    Assuming it's correct or I replace it - how many units do I give him to start off with?

    Shawna
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    The pens are good. Return the needles as they aren't accurate enough for cats.you want proper syringes.

    What is his ideal weight do you think? We base starting dose on that.

    Wendy
     
  21. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    It is not that the pen and needle are inaccurate it is that the pen w/needle only doses in 1 unit increments. Most cats need finer dosing like 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 units.
     
  22. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    OKAY - GOT ALL THE INFO FROM WENDY..............now understand about the dose volume, etc. Will go get new syringes tomorrow.

    SORRY for all the questions, but it's very overwhelming when you have no idea about it and the learning curve is fast and steep.

    I think his ideal weight is between 14-15 lbs.........he looks good now (maybe still looks big, but he's a huge cat with big paws and head, haha)

    Now if any of you need info on Shipping, Motorcycle racing, Renovating, etc. I can certainly give some professional advise - LOL, this Diabetis I'm worse then a beginner!
     
  23. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    :)

    Ok so starting dose calculation is shown on this page - read it and try and understand the best you can. Over time it will become more clear. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581. Ask questions!

    ie
    Based on 14.5lbs, that rounds out to 1.5 units twice a day. But like I said, lets try food for now.

    Did you test for ketones today? Or yesterday? Thats important too since his BG is high!!

    let us know

    Wendy
     
  24. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I did not test for keytones as was out most of the day and when here didn't catch him going to pee. Will try for tomorrow
     
  25. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  26. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Oh hey, never apologize for asking all the questions you need to. Please ask for clarification if we ever suggest something and you don't understand. We sometimes don't give enough information but on the other hand don't want to overwhelm you when you are new to this sugardance.

    It will all come in time.
     
  27. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    We'll want to keep a close eye on how he responds to insulin. Some cats with large paws and head turn out to have a medical condition causing the diabetes. We'll know better once he is on insulin and we see how he does with it.
     
  28. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    He's had most of the blood work done now and he's fine other then the high BG and just a big boy, should have called him BamBam. Haven't done the keytone test yet as his pee habits are in the middle of the night and now that he isn't peeing all the time I haven't even seen him go down to the litter boxes. I'm trying and when I asked the vet about it he said he did not test for that as with his high BG count it will show up positive..........I'll get one soon. I was filling 2 scoop/poop bags from Dollarama (black ones) each day with my 2 cats, however most was from Davidson. Now, 1/2 bag a day if that as seems back to normal as far as peeing goes.

    Today at 6:15am the BG is 16.72, yesterday same time was 18.............slowly dropping, and he's like his old self.
     
  29. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    There are specific tests run for these medical conditions (acromegaly, IAA) that generally are sent out t0 speciality labs. You don't run these until and unless there are indicators of significant insulin resistance. We start thinking about them at insulin doses around 5 units or so.

    p.s. it is ketones, no 'y'. These form as a by-product of fat breakdown for calories and high levels may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes.
     
  30. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    All looking good today and did a ketone test and it's negative.

    Weight 6.4 kgs or 14.12 lbs
    BG today is 16.72 at 6:15am, 20.1 at 7:30 am taken 1 hr after food, but he was stressed as I woke him up and carried him and he thought he was going to the vets since he was crying and not happy.

    I now have the correct syringes and everything for the start of insulin which I will start on Wed which is one week after switching to wet food only. His pee and drinking is as normal as Harley's so seems like that is under control.

    ** I am switching Vets here to one that was recommended by several friends, I spoke with them and they are well versed in Feline Diabetes and I'm taking Davidson there on Wed morning for a check up and consultation since he will be looking after both H&D from now on - plus they are also a mobile vet and will come to the house which is less stressful on the Guys (H&D).

    Do you think I should still give 4xdaily BG test as he's had lots now and maybe just every other day to let his ears relax a bit?

    The new vet has been great spending lots of time with me on the phone and I will take all my records and insulin there and administer the first needle with the Vet so I do it right since it's all new to me

    THANKS

    Shawna
     
  31. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    So BG's were AMBG 300 and then 362 at +1.25 in our more familiar format (mg d/L ). Since most of us are in the US, we sure would appreciate it if you could give us the numbers in both formats. You simply multiple your number by 18.

    AMBG means the morning blood glucose test, no insulin being given.
    AMPS means the morning blood glucose test, giving insulin.
    PMPS means the evening blood glucose test, giving insulin.

    Great news on finding a new vet that seems to know more about feline diabetes!

    Looks like Davidson (aka BamBam ;-) ) will need to start up on insulin. It will help if you can continue to test until you start the insulin. By continuing to test, you get more proficient at the testing and Davidson comes to see it as part of his daily routine and takes the testing in stride.

    A tiny dab of triple antibiotic ointment with pain relief, the ointment version not the cream one, can help to relieve the sting of the ear pokes and helps to heal the ears. Putting a bit of pressure on the poke spot on the ears after the poke, helps to stop the blood flow and prevent bruising.

    If you would set up a spreadsheet, directions here, that would really help to track Davidson's progress. You'll need to make the SS 'share with anyone with the link' to give us read only access. Some information in your user control panel, profile tab, edit signature would also be helpful. You can see the type of information that is helpful in my signature.

    Sounds like some of the clinical symptoms, the peeing and drinking are already showing signs of improvement. Here's hoping for continued improvement.
     
  32. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I will work on the SS this weekend and signature.............PLEASE be patient with me as I'm Dyslexic (yes, I can read perfectly) and don't always interpret what you write exactly how you mean it, even when re-reading. Therefore, I like to talk on the phone versus emailing (do the same to my clients for my company) and I know this is not always possible. For that reason you will all see repeated questions, info, etc and it's a way that "I" make sure I am doing things correctly and that "I" understand and interpret what you are saying in your posts. Figuring out what you are saying it harder then giving the needles ;-) so please when posting your instructions try to simplify them as I don't want to make any errors. For that reason I'm going to the new vet and we already spent an hour on the phone with no committments so that's a good sign.

    I bought the cream pain poly as didn't know the difference, but he doesn't seem to mind and purrs all the way thru the test.

    Wendy has been MOST helpful and if there is anyone on here in the Niagara Region of Ontario please PM me so that perhaps we can exchange phone numbers as that would be very helpful in the early stages. It's very exhausting as you all know, and trying to read, re-read and re-re-read all the printed matter is too much for my to absorb at once.........so I have to take it a bit slower.

    Okay, will continue the BG test until I see the Vet Wed and HOW OFTEN should they be done? Our schedules are different then yours i.e. they eat at 6am latest, and again at 6pm.........so is it important to do the BG test before feeding and one hour after feeding? What about mid day?

    RE FEEDING AMT: at 14.12 lbs (stable) and using 5.5oz or 3 oz cans of wet food what do I give him at each feeding? Been giving him 1 - 5.5 oz can twce a day FYI
     
  33. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day

    - always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 11.1 (200) but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
    - mid cycle when you can - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 2.8).
    - before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

    Spreadsheet - can you go here and set up an account with Google docs? https://www.google.com/accounts/NewAccount. Then we can work on getting the spreadsheet that I sent you uploaded into there.

    Food - many mini meals through the day are better for his pancreas. I would feed him a more often but smaller meals per day so he isn't eating big meals. This may help bring his numbers down more.

    Wendy
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Of course we will pull on our patience pants and go slower with you as needed. I'm partial to the color blue, so here are some blue patience pants for me.

    Never be afraid or shy about asking for clarification or simplification. Sometimes, we get too wordy. ;-)

    The triple antibiotic cream version soaks into the fur, and can make it harder to get that blood drop to bead up. It's certainly ok to keep using it if you are not having a problem getting the blood.

    We understand on the different time schedules. It's why we use the AMPS/AMBG, PMPS/PMBG and + hour terminology. It presents all the data in an easy to understand format, not dependent on specific times or time zones being specified.
     

    Attached Files:

  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Right now, I'm not seeing much difference in the numbers. I don't really see any food effect at +1. That variance could all be meter variance, within the +/- 20% variance that meters are allowed to have.

    I think some good times for you to test would be:

    1. AMBG/PMBG - morning and evening tests before you feed. Roughly 12 hours apart, try for consistency on the times if you can.
    2. +3 to +4 hours later, if your life responsibilities and schedule permits. This may give us an idea if the pancreas is working and producing some of it's own insulin.

    So how about this schedule?
    AMBG
    +3 or +4 (vary this time a bit on different days maybe a +3 one day, a +4 the next day)
    PMBG
    +3 or +4

    Would that work for you?
     
  36. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    oh oh, I think I'm doing the poly wrong.........I prick his ear, take the blood sample and then put the poli on. Seem like I should be doing poli first which is why you say the blood won't go thru...........funny and make me laugh - see Dyslexics do things backwards. :mrgreen: There is no bruising, so he's fine.

    The initial BG from the Vet were all high mid 20's to 30's and I did post them initially. Now they are at 15-19 and will continue to take them as noted. Here are his readings from Jan 7th Vet day

    3 units of Caninsulin given at 9:45am
    BG - 12pm is 30.3
    BG - 2:30 is 24.3
    BG - 4:30 is 24.1
    BG - 5:30 is 25.2

    Deb..........that scedule will work, since I work from home (seme retired) and can be flexible oh, I like PINK, do you have pink pants?

    If I do the test at 6am, can I feed him right away or have to wait? I'll give him 3oz per feeding a few times per day as Wendy suggests.

    Oh, Harley thinks it's great as he gets wet food too! Should I still give Harley 'normal" Temptations treats - he was clear of everything as I did blood work on him to make sure.

    Shawna
     
  37. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Hi Shawna!

    People do it both ways with applying the polysporin. Some do it before to numb the ear, some do it after to take away the sting of the poke. Your choice, as either way works fine. I don't even bother with the antibiotic ointment with pain relief any more, but then, Wink only needs 1 poke a week or so, since he is OTJ (off-the-juice, in remission, diet controlled).

    Oh yes, I have a vast lending closet of patience pants for people to borrow. Here are the pink ones you requested. Hope you like hot pink! ;-)

    You will usually be able to feed Davidson right after you test. There are always exceptions to the rules, such as if Davidson is much lower than normal. In that case, stall, which means hold off on food and retest in 20-30 minutes, to see if the BG's are rising or falling. Post here for help in a situation like that.

    Since Harley is not diabetic, you can still give him the normal Temptations treats, just make sure that Davidson doesn't steal them. I fed my civies (non-diabetic cats) Monet and Delta the high carb treats until they ran out, then switched all my 3 cats to the pure protein treats. It just made it easier, not having to remember who gets what. Switched my civies to low carb canned food when Wink joined me a year ago. Our 1 year anniversary is coming up next Friday!
     

    Attached Files:

  38. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Deb..........I LOVE THE PINK!!

    With Harley my Civies Guy...........I'm feeding him all wet food now too - is that okay or does he need some dry? H&D don't steal from eachother as that would make them crimanals and they are not tough guys like their name dictates, but they do like their mom's bike. Oh, Harley is ADHD too, my last VEt said it's hereditary :lol: :lol:
     
  39. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    The low carb wet food is perfectly fine for all your kitties, including Harley. If he likes it, I'd keep feeding him the canned food. It's all my 3 cats get fed now, for the last year. Well, they get a few low carb pure protein treats like Halo Liv-a-little freeze dried chicken or Pure Bites freeze dried chicken.

    This vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, gives a good explanation as to why wet food is better for our cats. She explains it better than I can. Here is a link to her article. Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics. She is the vet who spent countless hours contacting the food manufacturers and put together this food chart which we rely on to find appropriate low carb choices for our diabetic kitties. It lists most of the canned/wet foods available in the US. She explains why cats don't need dry food, don't need many carbs, and why water intake is so important.

    The Wellness foods are on there, on page 22. Look for foods that are <10% carbs in the 3rd column of numbers.
    Your very lucky! I have to guard Wink's food dish, so the other 2 cats don't steal his food. My civie Monet, will stand off to the side, reach has paw out and start pulling Wink's food dish towards him. :eek: :shock: :eek:

    It took me about 6 weeks to convince my foster sugarcat Wink that wet food was edible. ohmygod_smile Now, he loves it!

    The vet and shelter had him on high carb dry food, the Hill's W/d in fact. Didn't take long after switching him off that high carb food to the low carb Fancy Feast pate style and Friskies pate style before he went into remission.
     
  40. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Shawna wanted to know how to add an avatar to her user control panel profile, so we could see a picture of Davidson. Here are the AVATAR instructions, from over in the Tech Support Forum. Third post down has a step by step guide to getting a picture small enough to use as an avatar and the steps to get the picture in your User control panel profile.

    We also talked about having a hypo toolkit ready, and printing out these instructions for managing a hypoglycemic episode, in case Davidson goes too low after he starts his insulin next week.

    Here is a list of items for the hypo toolkit.
    IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - YOUR HYPO KIT

    Put together NOW the following items and put in an easily accessible place!

    ● Phone number of your vet
    ● Phone number, address and map/directions to your nearest emergency vet (or phone number of the cab company and some cash/credit card)
    ● Karo syrup, honey or corn syrup
    ● High carb canned food with gravy – 2-3 cans (like Fancy Feast gravy lovers foods)
    ● Some favourite treats
    ● Spare pack of 25 blood glucose strips
    ● Coffee for you ;)

    Like the boy scouts, it's good to be prepared.
     
  41. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Deb was great in the "encouragement department" as is Wendy and nice to talk about our cats histories...........I'm preparing the emergency kit today in hopes I never need it and will dig out some handsome shots of Davidson for my Avatar.

    UPDATE on BG

    Jan 10th
    BGPM 5:15 - 19.72 or 354.96
    BGPM 6:53 - 19.11 or 343.98

    Today's BG counts are:

    6:45am - 17.88 or 321.84
    8:50am - 14.22 or 255.96
    ** do we round the numbers up or down?? Since this is an American site should I just show the BG in 'your' numbers (sorry, don't know what they are called) or show both since Wendy and others like me are Canadians??

    In reading the AAHA Diabetes Guidelines it states under syringes NOT to use the short ones, yet I've been told to use short ones which I purchased..........any comments please?

    Today is reading up day on all the things I have to learn..........

    Making progress...........Avatar and Signature added

    Rgds
    Shawna & Davidson who also THANKS you............he's back to himself other then high BG levels for now.
     
  42. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    When you get your spreadsheet going, choose the World version. It will let us go back and forth from US to Canadian numbers easily. Put your values in and then we can choose the US sheet to see them.
     
  43. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Some of prefer short needles: some of us prefer long.

    I prefer short needles because I am less likely to go all the way through the tent and out the other side, plus it is a smidge less easy to bend.
     
  44. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    HELP on template

    I downloaded it all okay and need some help on inputting the numbers, still not on insulin but doing BG levels 4xday. When I start insulin it will be at 9am and 9pm, so if I want to insert my BG results and I haven't done any after 9pm do I record these numbers the day before?

    I.E.

    Jan 8th - BG at 5pm on SS mark under +8
    BG at 10pm on SS mark under +1

    Jan 9th - BG at 6am, so where do I mark that? Do I put the reading on Jan 8th under PMBG +9???

    I'm ready to insert the data and publish but want to make sure it's correct and I understand it right as most days I will get 2 reading before 9am (preshot) as we are up before 6am and he eats right away which means a preshot at 6am, then another an hour later...........and when I give the insulin (shot) then that will always be at 9

    Question: can I feed him before the insulin as for 12 yrs he is used to eatting when we get up and sometimes that is before 5am. However with the insulin I have to time it with my lifestyle and think 9am and 9pm will work best


    Thanks
    Shawna
     
  45. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Yes, you've got it correctly. The BG test on 1/9 at 6am is still part of your previous 12 hour cycle, so it goes under 1/8, after the PMPS in the +9 column.

    Trying to generalize,here are some examples.

    Put your morning test (9am) in the column labeled AMPS, put 0 in the column labeled U (u=units of insulin), the next reading you are getting after the morning test, goes in the closest hour column. For example, if the test was 2 hours after the am test, it goes in the +2 column, if 4 hours later, that would be +4 (4 hours after your morning test time).

    Your evening test (9pm test) goes in the column labeled PMPS, put 0 in the column labeld U after that since you are not using insulin yet. Any subsequent test readings go in the apppropriate hour column. So a test taken 2 hours after your evening test, ( 11pm), goes in the +2 column.

    You'll be thinking in 12 hour cycles in no time and talking in our + hour format before you know it!
     
  46. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    My chart is filled in and published to the web..........can someone tell me if it shows up and if they can access it. Never did this before, all new to me and I think I entered the counts correctly. FYI - no insulin yet, and most BG's were done between 6-8am and 4-8pm and I was using 9/9 as my shot time as that's what it will be next week once on Lantus.

    But I think I messed up with the AM and PM areas to put them in............hmmmm. Also I used the World SS but inserted the numbers the US uses, nto Canadian. I can change it around if you let me know what I did wrong.

    Rgds
    Shawna
     
  47. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Now, you need to do the steps to link the google spreadsheet into your user control panel signature. I don't see a link in your signature to the SS yet, but you do have some other information in your signature I can see at the end of your posts.
     
  48. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    okay, figured out the SS and what I did wrong............please let me know if it looks okay.

    How often do we update this - daily, each time we do a BG?
     
  49. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    seems to be working...........just need to insure I am entering the BG's in the proper column each day as per the schedule I am on. Thanks for the pointers..............
     
  50. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Yes, I have read only access to your spreadsheet now. Sometimes we'll just call it the SS.

    Not sure you have the numbers in the right columns. Where are your AMBG and PMBG readings? The AMBG goes in the AMPS column and PMBG goes in the PMPS column for now. Yeah, I know, the SS isn't perfectly labeled for someone like you that is not giving any insulin yet.

    Please update at least daily. An update each time you get a BG would be good, especially at the beginning when you start the insulin.

    We had another new member yesterday with a cat that on the very first dose of insulin went from a 309 to a 67. That's quite a drop, so we asked the person to test a bit more after the second shot that evening, in case the numbers dropped really low again. Not in the danger zone, but wanted people to keep an eye out just in case and wanted to keep this other kitty safe.
     
  51. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    okay - Davidson is going on Lantus today..........taking him to the vet at 9:30 and will give him a preshot (ahh, getting the lingo) at 9:15, then do the shot at 9:30 and bring him home. His BG was 16.8 yesterday afternoon, steadily decreasing while on wet food only. Met the new Vet yesterday - young kid, but knows his stuff and was VERY supportive of what I provided and wanted to do based on this FDMB and he agreed with everything.

    I'll be doing his curve all day and if he's getting the shot at 9:30ish, should I take BG reading every 2 hrs? How many should I do before I stop? I'll give him his second shot at 9:00 to get back on track.

    Tomorrow will be the following schedule...........

    6am feed
    9am preshot, shot
    2-3pm BG
    5pm feed
    9pm preshot, shot
    11pm preshot

    The above schedule will be followed and monitored daily until someone tells me to change.

    I will advise the dosage of Lantus once home from the Vet

    Thanks again for all the positive feedback and advise

    Shawna
     
  52. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    hey there good luck a the vets. Don't forget to take your meter to compare it with the vets. (more for your vets comfort than yours ;) )

    Also the schedule looks good to start but I would vary the 2-3 pm test when you can just to check the "nadir" or low point isn't wandering. not all cats nadir at +6. Also some comments below

    6am feed
    9am preshot, shot - this is AMPS
    2-3pm BG - this is +5 or +6
    5pm feed
    9pm preshot, shot - this is PMPS
    11pm preshot - this isn't a pre shot test - just a regular +2 BG test. If this number is lower than PMPS then you might want to set the alarm for another test at PMPS+5 or so because it implies an active cycle

    Keep us updated!

    For the first week you can expect wonky numbers but hold the dose to let it settle. UNLESS he drops under 2.8 in which case you immediately drop the dose by 1/4 unit. OR if your pre shot is under 11.1 in which means you don't want to shoot yet. Come on here and ask for advice.

    Wendy
     
  53. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Thanks...........Vet visit went really well and new Vet is very knowledgeable. He didn't want to do another BG with his device as he said Davidson was already too stressed and to continue to use mine even though the BG readings will be a bit higher then what the 'pet' ones will read (just the nature of human meters vs pet meters). He got the actual shot at 9:45am with 1.5 units Lantus and here is the schedule he said to use:

    9am AMPS
    9:45am shot 1.5 unit Lantus
    11am BG
    12pm BG
    1pm feed as usual
    2pm BG
    4pm BG
    6pm BG and feed as usual
    8pm BG does this become PMPS?
    9:15 shot
    10pm BG

    Thanks and jus about there with the understanding......
     
  54. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    ok cool -who'se idea was the curve? his or yours?

    8pm BG does this become PMPS? No you want to test as close to the shot as possible. I would test at 9pm instead.
     
  55. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    filled in the SS and please check to see if I am accurate. BTW - Vet's idea to do the curve as per the times I show.

    I just did a BG and it's 18.27 (or 18.3 on the SS) and I put it in at +1 since the shot was at 9:50am..........

    So, should I adjust the times of BG test instead of doing 8pm, do it at 9pm and then the shot right after..........but then there is a 3 hr wait between BG tests. Is that okay? or I can do a test at 6 and 8, then do a PMPS at 10pm and a shot........which would be 12 hrs later.

    The only reason I was trying to go do the shot earlier was to get back onto the 9/9 schedule. 10/10 is okay too since it's winter time and I'm not exactly out golfing or riding my Harley Davidson........not to be confused with Harley & Davidson :lol:

    If the SS is okay, then I think I have it.

    Thanks so much!!
    Shawna

    UPDATE 12PM - BG 15.1.............I do not see the US chart being updated on the SS. I am entering the data in the World SS and is it not supposed to update automatically? I do republish each time, and can enter the date on the US SS manually without any problems........please advise
     
  56. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    UPDATE - 2PM bg 9.22 OR 166...............

    Davidson has dropped quite a bit and seems to be working.......I updated the SS but please read my previous post at 11:30 as not sure if it's working as the US SS is not automatically updating

    Thanks
    Shawna
     
  57. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    He is coming down nicely. The +6 will be interesting. At this fast rate of drop I might even get a +5... and if he hits green you might want to start doing it hourly until he goes back up. You want to check he doesn't drop too low.

    Its ok to wait 3 hours between tests or just get an extra test in. But its important to test within about 20 minutes of your shooting time.
     
  58. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Thanks Wendy........

    I'll do another BG at 4/5 and check to see what it is.........then if good will do one at 7/9 then shoot at 9.

    Sound good?
     
  59. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    what is 'green'..............11.1??
     
  60. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Green is the SS colour coding if he goes under 5.5- see the top of the SS

    Wendy
     
  61. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    4pm BG is 6.8

    getting close...........should I be worried?
     
  62. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Not at all! These are great numbers. Maybe get another test in an hour though - its not like we are worrying so much as curious.. i.e. how low will this dose take him?

    Please can you update your sheet. Also where is jan 13 and 14th on the world tab? I think its confusing your US tab not having those.

    Wendy
     
  63. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Wendy........

    See a couple of my posts earlier as I've asked if there is a problem as for some reason the US are not updating..............not sure what went wrong as it was working fine and the other day it stopped converting the World over to the US side.

    I also enter the data on the World side..........not the US.

    Let me know what I am doing wrong and I will correct it.

    I'll do another BG at 5pm
     
  64. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I think its because your world side is missing jan 13 and 14?
     
  65. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    UPDATE:

    BG test at 5pm was 9.88, so NADIR is 6.8 which vet said is perfect. Doing another BG at 7pm, then at 9pm.

    Summary if BG is: 4-10 then no shot at 9pm
    10-13 give 1 unit of Lantus
    13+ give 1.5 unit of Lantus

    Test BG again at 11pm, 6am and continue schedule

    So far so good. Question - what do I do with the NADIR reading?

    Vet said to take a reading at 4ppm tomorrow as that was when he got the NADIR

    Thanks!!!!
     
  66. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Looking good so far. But you put the 9.8 on the US instead of world sheet. If you use the US sheet you need to multiply by 18.

    Is the vet saying that if he is 10-13 at pre shot you should give 1 unit from now on, or just for tonite?

    I agree you should not shoot at all if he is under 10.

    Nadirs vary. But for now you can test at +6 (4pm) but I would vary it over the next few days because they do change. and the lantus is still settling

    Wendy
     
  67. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    What a goofball I am............okay fixed. (maybe just seeing if you were paying attention haha)

    Only tonight for the shot if between 10-13 of 1 unit, then will depend on testing but don't want to move it around too much and he said better a bit lower then too much. I will be calling him in the morning after 9am once we see what he levels are tonight and tomorrow morning.

    *** Any reason why my data when entered on the WORLD SS is not automatically transferring to the US SS? Or do I have to enter them manually?

    Thanks Wendy!!

    Shawna
     
  68. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    :lol:

    The key to lantus is consistency. Like i said, it has this depot which has to fill, and if you continue to vary dose it messes it up.
    So... If he is 10-13 tonite and you reduce to 1 unit, I would hold this 1 unit for now because it likely means the dose is too high. Because if he is dropping low enough that it isn't too safe to shoot, you gotta wonder what will happen when the depot is full. But lets see.

    Don't know about the SS - something wonky I guess? I would just use the US one and blow away the world. You have a US meter anyway so no big deal on the math.

    Wendy
     
  69. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Yes, absolutely right and by the looks of things he is now at +9 (7pm) 12.88 so if the 9pm BG is under 13 then I'll reduce the dose to 1 unit and HOLD it there for a few days and get readings.

    Question - do I take his food away now as I think you don't want to feed him 2 hrs before the shot, then I can put it back down..........please confirm.

    So at 9pm I will enter the PMPS reading in that column, then do the shot and enter it in the 0 column I think............after today is done then I'm good!

    Shawna
     
  70. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    yep no food for two hours before the shot as you need to know that the pre shot test isn’t influenced by food. He can have food right after,

    Yes if the BG is between 10-13 its fine to reduce the shot to 1 unit from now on. Under 10, don’t shoot at all. But he looks like he is heading up so no problem there... probably ;)

    yes - Your 9pm test goes in the PMPS column "O" (p.m. pre shot)

    I would recommend you get a before bed test to see what his nighttime plans are.

    You did GREAT today by the way! He is responding well to the insulin.


    Wendy
     
  71. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Food was taken away and I'll enter the date once I do the shot (a bit nervous but did 2 saline injections today at Vet).

    THANKS TO EVERYONE.............without all of your input and guidance I'm not sure how I would have managed.

    NOTE TO NEWBIES: DO NOT ALWAYS TAKE YOUR VET'S WORD FOR WHAT THEY TELL YOU. The experience and education on this Forum from all those who input and reply to our questions is PRICELESS and they are far more knowledgeable with hands on information then most vets. If you are not comfortable with what your vet is telling you to do then DO NOT DO IT and refer to this Forum for answers.............these people know what to do and they are helping you for your benefit.

    Davidson is well on his way to being himself and hopefully he won't need to Lantus for very long. Either way, he's in great shape now and that's all that counts!! His brother Harley is happy too and soon they will be the Harley Davidson team

    Shawna
     
  72. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Davidson seems a bit sluggish, he's getting his BG test at 9pm and then more then likely a shot. Is this normal since he had his last shot at 9am and today is his first day on insulin? Just wondering..........
     
  73. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I doubt it's related to the insulin, but what do you mean by sluggish?

    He has had a hard day with the vet n all, so probably nothing but have you checked his ketones recently?

    Wendy
     
  74. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    just a bit tired and maybe due to the Vet and all the attention and poking he's getting. We did play a bit and he wants to eat but I'm not giving him food again until after the shot

    Question - I did the first shot at 9:45 this morning and was going to do the second at 9pm, however that is a bit early and I'd like to get on a 9/9 schedule. Is it okay to give it to him at 9, or better wait until 9:15 and insert the PMPS for 9?

    Thanks
     
  75. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I would wait till 9.15 and do 9 tomorrow. And insert the PMPS value in that column O.

    Will you be able to get a PMPS +2?
     
  76. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    okay, yes - I'll stay up and get a +2 if you think it's important...............
     
  77. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I will stay up with you. It is a good idea just to see where he is headed. I will be looking for your post.

    Good luck , it's shot time now right?did you get the short syringes.

    Wendy
     
  78. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I have the proper syringes............I will do the BG preshot in 15 min, then the shot right away at 9:15 and post the reading on my SS. He's good right now, calm and sitting half on my keyboard so in a good position to give him the needle. I'm a bit nervous being my first time, but it will be okay. Funny - Harley wants to get in no the action as he sees Davidson getting treats all day and he jumps up to join in on the fun, so he thinks.

    Oh - the Vet used my needles today and said they were good to use and very easy since they are so thin and Davidson never flinched..........so will go well I am sure.
     
  79. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    I just wondered cos they come in short and long needles. Just remember to tent and inject into it. It's such a small amount you will barely notice.
     
  80. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    okay, done but not sure it went as well as expected...........as I put the needle in he moved and chirped a bit as if to say I hit the muscle. I got the insulin in and hope it's okay.

    BG was 17.38 so it went up close to the level at 11am

    Hope it works and will be okay........assuming at 11pm the BG should drop a bit.

    Hmmmm
     
  81. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    My bailey does that if I shoot near the spine , where on his body did you shoot him? Try a different spot next time. Another reason i asked about the needle length...
     
  82. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    shot him a few inches behind his shoulders where the scruff is and maybe too much towards the center of his back. Tomorrow will do it more on the scruff.

    I notice on his ears that the fur is off and may be because of the cream I am using? He's okay with pricking his ears, so think I will just warm them as I usually do, prick, hold tight for about 30 seconds with a cotton ball and then not use the poly cream.

    I use the U-100 3/10ml small needles that you told me to get...........I think they will be fine since the Vet today used it, we did some saline injections and he was fine. He may have noticed I was nervous and moved a bit. I will do the BG at 11pm and going to practice on an orange :lol:
     
  83. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    BG at 11pm 12.5 so assume I am safe to go to bed and not have to wake up at 3am?? Remember I lowered the dose to 1unit, and started this morning at 1.5 units
     
  84. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Why did you reduce the dose? Vet said reduce only if 10-13 right?

    Too late now though. Now that you did reduce though I would advise you stick to this dose for the week unless he drops under 2.8.

    Lets start talking in + instead of time - people are on different times zones here so won't know what time you mean. So I would set the alarm for a +5 actually (2am) and see where he is at. You didn't get a +5 today and he might have actually nadired a little earlier. If I am awake at 3am testing my boys I will check on you.

    Wendy

    PS if there is a case where you shoot and are not sure it got in.. whatever you do, do NOT shoot again - you could overdose. Just mark "fur shot" in the preshot column and chalk it up to experience. I always touch the fur and smell my fingers after to check.. its a strong smell or you can get damp fingers if you do fur shot. And it does happen. But never ever reshoot!
     
  85. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Wendy I screwed up and took the 7pm reading in error. ohoh. SORRY. Yes, understand not to shoot again in case I miss.

    I will do a BG at +5 as you say and can you suggest when to do it again by giving me some numbers? Maybe help with a set time schedule I should stick to for a few days so not to mess up again. Hope the reduction is not going to be a big PROBLEM.......

    Shawna
     
  86. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    It will be fine. As I said , it's better to start low and work up. I would hold this new dose of 1unit for now though so the depot can establish at this level.

    I would test before every shot obviously. Then one midday randomly between +4 and +7. Then one before bed. But if the before bed test is lower then get a +4 to +7 at night too.

    Wendy
     
  87. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    THANKS!!

    So, still do a 2am read?
     
  88. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Definately, his +2 was lower than PMPS which implies an active cycle. And we need to ensure he isn't going to drop too low.

    If the +5 (2am) is green I would get another test in an hour.

    Wendy
     
  89. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    okay, will do..........going to get a bit of sleep before I have to wake up...........haha, I'm wired now so most likely will be up until 2. Don't need much sleep when you have ADHD to work with.......... :lol:
     
  90. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Make sure to set the alarm just in case!

    Wendy
     
  91. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    +5 (2am) reading 17.5
     
  92. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Hey there,

    He is high so you can sleep well now. It's probably the lantus settling, something we call new dose wonkiness. So to tomorrow at 9am unless he is under 11, I would still shoot just one unit... Even if he is high.. Don't panic. New dose wonkiness is normal...especially the first week.

    I am in the office tomorrow so won't be around much.

    Wendy
     
  93. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes

    Sorry, didn't see this post until now and did the BG upstairs at 6am..............16.5. Guess he's 'wonky'..........will give the shot at 9.

    QUESTION: do I still do a BG test before the shot? Do I ALWAYS do a BG test before the shot? If so, I will just do them at 9/9 and one in eh middle of the day while he gets used to the Lantus.

    Thanks, enjoy your day..........

    Shawna
     
  94. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes - updated

    Yes test ALWAYS before the shot as you don't want to shoot when he is too low ie under 11.

    Plus one test at +4 to +7

    Then one test before bed

    Because things change and today the wonkiness could clear
     
  95. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes - updated

    Got it! ;-)
     
  96. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes - updated

    Great! Today if you have time I would re read the stickys on top of the lantus board plus review how to handle hypos now you are on insulin. U have your hypo kit ready right?
     
  97. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes - updated

    okay, I have read them this morning but will have to re-read about 20 :roll: times since it's a lot to digest and just not being able to retain the info being and all new to me..........I've got most of it figured out and YES , have the hypo kit with the exception of the FF with gravy which I will get today, but have honey and the rest.
     
  98. Shawna & Davidson (GA)

    Shawna & Davidson (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2014
    Re: New here and new to Diabetes - updated Jan 16 - ANY HELP

    BG at AMPS 16.5 or 347, shot with 1 unit Lantus.

    +7 BG 12.88

    Hope this is okay - any suggestions as I accidentally decreased his dosage last night from 1.5u to 1u, and this morning gave him his shot at 1u...........which explains why he is still high. He's a big cat at 14.1 lb

    ANY suggestions??

    Shawna
     
  99. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Shawna,

    Davidson is looking good since you started him on insulin. Keep this 1U dose for 5-7 days, to let the insulin depot build up. The exception to holding this dose would be if he dropped < 2.7 mmol/L (50 in US numbers). In that case, you would immediately reduce the next dose by 0.25U.

    You've been getting some great suggestions from Wendy.

    Sorry no one was around this morning to answer your questions, but it looks like you went ahead and gave the 1U dose. You are learning already. Good job on that decision.

    (I took a peak at your SS and so far so good!)

    If you are ever uncomfortable about giving a dose because of the BG reading you have gotten, please post here for suggestions. If there is no one here on the Feline Health forum, you can always post over in the Insulin Support Group (ISG) for Lantus (glargine) Tight Regulation. There are usually folks over there that can help you out if you are not getting a timely response here on this forum.

    Be sure to put the question mark Post Icon on your post, to let folks know you have a question.
     
  100. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I was at work today but I checked your SS a few times just to make sure all was ok.

    I agree with Deb too - Remember Lantus is a depot insulin so in a few days we might find this dose is actually enough once the depot has built up. Better to start low and work up anyway. If this doesn't work we will get to a higher dose soon enough!

    So hold the dose for 5 days (10 cycles) and we will see where he is. Patience grasshopper! remember to check for ketones every day or two.

    This is good - it will give you time to read up and let things sink in.

    Wendy
     
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