New member 05/21/20 vet recommended Science Diet w/d

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Dawnjanell, May 22, 2020.

  1. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Hi I am so glad to have found this forum while Googling cat with diabetes urinating everywhere :(! I took my 14 year old BB cat to the vet 05/18 after she peed in her heated bed right in front of me, and they found glucose in her urine. We started her on Glipizide 2.5 mg twice a day and on vets orders switched her to Science Diet Prescription w/d cat food. They did not take a blood sample so we watched a YouTube video and pricked my sweet patient girls ear ourselves. On 05/19 she was at 336 about 2 hours after eating and taking her first dose of Glipizide. On 05/20 she started peeing on every rug in our house.

    So I have read some and am switching her to Friskie Pate tomorrow ( am pretty annoyed the vet would have recommended such a high carb food).

    She is due back in a week will being on Glipizide short term harm her?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome to the forum.
    Yes the W/d cat food is high carb. I’m really glad you are swapping to low carb canned.
    And well done home testing the blood sugars.

    Glipizide is not a good option for diabetic cats. It makes the pancreas work harder whereas insulin supports the pancreas.

    If BB were my cat I would use insulin not Glipizide.
    Ask for Lantus insulin, it is a good insulin for cats. The normal starting dose is around 1 unit and we go up in 1/4 unit increments.
    We would be happy to help you.
    Is she still peeing everywhere?
    Did the vet do a fructosamine test to diagnose the diabetes?
     
  3. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Welcome!

    I agree with Bron, and have another question: did the vet check BB out for a possible UTI?
     
  4. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Welcome!

    I have a question as well. Is she having any trouble waking or with her back legs?

    I second Lantus. It’s a much better insulin for cats :cat:
     
  5. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    We know this is an overwhelming time. Everyone here cares passionately. You have found a safe place to learn everything you never thought you'd need to know. Let us help you help BB.
    I havent had a diabetic kitty in many many years yet here I am out of gratitude paying it forward.
    You CAN do this. ;)

    Welcome to FDMB The best site on the planet to help you help your BB.

    jeanne
     
  6. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    Thank you again for just being here! I spoke to my vet this morning, and told him I did not want to continue the Glipizide. He talked it out with me and we decided I will make the switch to the low carb food while continuing to test her. Hopefully her numbers go down just getting back off the high carb, and then I am to take her in next week. He wants to compare our meters as he was surprised she wasn't higher and run some more tests.

    Bron and Sheba, she is still missing and peeing over the edge of the litter box but is no longer peeing on the rugs.

    Nan and Amber, yes they checked for a UTI which is actually what I scheduled the appt for.

    Aleluia, Grugu & Minnie she has been walking a bit different the last two months, like she woke up feeling a little stiff one morning and it didn't go away.

    Not knowing any better I had recently switched from Royal Canine ultra light loaf to a food in gravy in an attempt to get her finicky pukey sister to eat soft food. So I am kicking myself like crazy as it didn't work and it was so dumb.

    .
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  7. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Are you still continuing the glipizide or has that been stopped?
    I would test for ketones while you are not giving any insulin. Ketones can form when diabetic cats are not getting insulin. It is an easy test. You just need to get a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy or Walmart and dip a test strip into a urine specimen from BB. Read it exactly 15 seconds afterwards against the colours on the side of the bottle. If there are any ketones showing you need to tell the vet as that indicates that insulin needs to be started.
    Ketones can lead to the more dangerous DKA so it a good safeguard to do if you are not starting the insulin straight away.
     
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  8. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    This is a link to Cornell University's Feline Health Center. They discuss treatment for feline diabetes. They state, "Cats with diabetes are most often treated with injectable insulin. Oral drugs for humans (hypoglycemic medications) such as glipizide rarely work in controlling diabetes in cats." Perhaps you could share this with your vet.

    You might also want to share the American Animal Hospital Assn's Guidelines for the Treatment of Diabetes. They do not recommend Glipizide for either cats or dogs. The insulin that is recommended for cats is either Prozinc or Lantus. This is something your vet should know. Glipizide causes considerable stress on the pancreas to produce insulin. Most cats have the best chance of remission if you can get their blood glucose under control as quickly as possible. Because of the way Glipizide works, it can burn out the pancreas and remission will be impossible.

    Please encourage your vet to read the literature on the treatment of feline diabetes!
     
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  9. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    Sorry, I left out that we took her off the Glipizide. My Veta is a fan of the med and says he feels the risk outweighs the harm. Apparently my favorite vet techs cat is currently living at the clinic taking Glipizide in addition to insulin.

    I will check her ketone levels, but is there any reason we can't check in her blood rather then urine? Our meter does both but everything I am reading is about testing in urine
     
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  10. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    If you have a meter that checks both then you're good! :) Most of us just have the meter that checks blood sugar, not ketones.
     
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  11. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    Sorry it's hard to get thru a whole post here, did I mention I have added the stress of a puppy to the household? Also feel terrible about that since it was stress none of my 4 senior animals appreciate. Allie pup is 17 weeks old, is still learning not to chase my cats.

    My Vet had recently read studies about remission while one insulin and knew they didn't have anything showing that while on Glipizide. Tho he feels Glipizide is a good option he was very supportive of my not wanting to give it to her. He will start insulin if that's what I prefer. He held off on starting it before a long weekend as he wanted me to do some more testing and see how she reacts to the change in diet.
     
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  12. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    We had no problems getting a blood drop big enough to test the two previous times but today it's just not working. We warmed her ear and tried milking it but the drops are too small. I am worrying more with each failed test that it's because her number went up and her blood is thicker.
     
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  13. Ella and Masha

    Ella and Masha New Member

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    May 21, 2020
    Hey , new member here, also put on Glipizide as of yesterday. I'm a science major and decided to do some research on Glipizide. From this study, it shows 28 out of 50 cats diabetes worsened over a 16 week period. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9074678/

    I stated my concerns to my vet but his assistant told me to bring her back in 2 weeks. I'm more surprised my vet gave me the Glipizide while she's on a steroid (which is known to have interactions). I've discovered the diabetes also from her urinating on a new couch I just bought, also on my bed in the past(which doesn't happen anymore). I'm switching her to Royal Canin Glyocobalance. Going to get Tiki Cat from the local food store and possibly attempt to make my own food with the supplements included.

    There are some litters that help assess the health of cats, which show acidity or alkalinity which can help to use once in a while. I also bought KetoStix from target yesterday, so far so good. Since she's still peeing on my waterproof couch cover, the urine sample is easy to get.
    Overall, I'm thankful there's SO many different at home testing options that are a good indicator to whether additional professional testing may be needed! I'm also just beginning this journey and hoping for the best
     
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  14. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    Hi Ella and Marsha, I am so sorry your in the same boat. My vet said the studies are old, and that new studies have come out to say Glipizide is the best option. He almost had me convinced to leave her on it but then he changed his mind, if I'm up for testing and putting in the work he agreed if remission is the goal it's not the best for BB.

    How high are your numbers? Have you been testing while on the Glipizide, and if so how fast did they go down?
     
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  15. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Vets may prescribe the "glip" because they think their clients cant or WONT treat their cats.(a lot of people shy away from sticking their beloved pets with a needle :rolleyes:) To give nothing as a treatment would be malpractice or even abuse. I think thats why they prescribe Glipizide.
     
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  16. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    switched to the back of her ear today, using just the needle, and no gauze and I did stick myself as well, but I was able to get samples! Her Ketones are at .6 which I read is on the low end of not normal, am I ok with waiting until Tuesday or should I treat it as an emergency visit?
    Her blood sugar was 290 after no meal for 11 hours, 280 one hour after a few nibbles, and then two hours after eating about 1/4th of a can of Friskies grilled pate she was at 288. I am probably overdoing it but I want some good info on how the meals affect her numbers before going to the vet and possibly starting insulin.
     
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  17. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    I innocently followed by vet's advise and gave glipiside for 6 weeks. During that time, Rover went from having no neuropathy to having weakness in his back legs. While he did make a partial recovery with certain exercises and methycobalamine (a specific form of B12), he never fully recovered from the neuropathy. If I had to do it all over again, I'd go straight to insulin.
     
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  18. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    That is terrible, I'm so sorry about Rover. Luckily I found this site so BB was only on it for 3 days and those where half pills with the plan of going up after a week.
     
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  19. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    We have a steep hill in our backyard. Rover loved running down the hill. Gravity worked in his favourite and he could gather some long remembered and much loved speed. Going back up the hill took some time and effort. That became his main exercise, even if we lost patience and carried him partway back to the top. He was a happy beast.
     
  20. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    I am expecting a call from my vet today. Should I push for insulin? Off the Glipizide her numbers are still down from 336 to 286 in the last week. In your opinion is that enough improvement to warrant trying to continue with just the diet change?
     
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  21. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hmmm. I'm afraid I'd have to say no... normal BG for a cat is roughly 50-120, BB is still very far from those kinds of numbers. I think she's going to need some insulin to get her the rest of the way.

    Good insulins for cats include Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc/PZI. I hope your vet is agreeable!
     
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  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    If she's starting to develop ketones, start the insullin as soon as possible. Ketones can develop FAST and once they are above a trace, require overnight vet stays on IV. The way to get rid of them is with insulin, food, and water.
     
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  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    No, 286 is still way too high, esp since you are starting to see traces of ketones.
     
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  24. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    Ok thank you, he waited until after hours to call and I missed it. Couldn't call back since the office was closed. I will push to start it tomorrow.
     
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  25. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I agree with what Nan and Janet have said. What a nuisance to miss the vet call.
    My preference is Lantus or levemir. That is because I’ve used both and liked them.
     
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  26. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Is that a blood ketone reading or a urine ketone reading?

    From Ketones, Diabetic Ketoacidosis (DKA), and Blood Ketone Meters

    The latest published research/studies in cats indicate ketones will begin to show up at readings of 2.4 and 2.55 on a blood ketone meter:

    So .6 is low on a blood ketone meter.
     
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  27. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    It's a blood reading
    It's a blood reading
     
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Hey @Dawnjanell Would you please provide links from your vet of those recent studies that say Glipizide is the best option for treating diabetic cats? Sure would like to see some proof of what he is saying.
     
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  29. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    I will ask him for them when I get a chance.

    He called in a prescription for a Glargine pen tonight, but unfortunately I picked the wrong pharmacy and it had already closed.
     
  30. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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  31. Dawnjanell

    Dawnjanell Member

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    May 20, 2020
    I will get a written script to and stock up. He went with the pen as he said they found it cheaper for the quantity I would be needing. Do you refrigerate the pens? I know they advice against it but in one of my half dozen phone calls from my vet he said they do when it's for pets and then use it for 60-90 days rather then discarding after 28.
     
  32. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Yes, you can refrigerate the pens, and the insulin will last longer that way. They don't do it that way for humans, because humans usually use the pen needles, and the pen mechanism doesn't work well with cold insulin. But if you're just using the pens as a mini-vial and using separate syringes, no problem!
     
  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Always good to have a backup copy of any prescriptions from your vet sent to you via email.
     
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  34. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    You should be able to use every drop in each pen. The only way to know if your insulin is bad is if it's cloudy or has "floaties" in it....otherwise, watch for signs that the numbers are creeping up. If there's no other reason, then you might suspect it's the insulin losing efficacy but most of us can use a single pen for at least 4-6 months
     

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