New member from UK asking for diet advice!

winsortracey new UK member (moved from Bob and Rusty's threa

Hi! I am in the Uk and wanted to know if there is anyone out there who has seen succesful results by diet change only. My cat Willow has been diagnosed with diabetes. Willow refused to eat after the blood tests at the vet & the vet suggested putting him to sleep 2 weeks ago as he is 14years old & said treatment would be too invloved. I am also needle phobic so insulin is not an option for me. Anyway, I refused & took him home and have been syringe feeding him since. He has lost a lot of weight over the last year and drinks a lot but seems a bit better now than he was just after the vet visit. He has pottered about a bit but is quite lethargic & mainly stays in one room.
I just don't want to give up on him. He eats Whiskas canned food. According to the Binky's Food table I should prob avoid the Whiskas in gravy which is high in carbs.
I am confused as Hill's website suggests 2 foods for diabetic cats (M/D & W/D) but they seem quite high in carbs and are certainly not under 12% as suggested on this site.
Any advice appreciated.

 

Re: winsortracey new UK member (moved from Bob and Rusty's threa

Hi there (edited to move incorrect name doh!)

Ok, honesty time here. You need to really reconsider that needlephobia of yours. Yes, I understand it, I was needlephobic myself and you should have seen my husband, but you need to do this for your cat. Diet change alone is very likely to be insufficient, and without insulin your cat will starve to death if other complications don't do it first. Graphic yes, but true.

However, at 14 your cat can have lots of healthy years left, and shame on your vet for suggesting putting to sleep!

Please, consider learning more about FD and perhaps one of our other UK members can help you learn how to do shots and even hometest!

Jen

 

Re: winsortracey new UK member (moved from Bob and Rusty's threa

Hope you find your way here. We have a number of members in the UK who should be able to help you out with food choices.

I am concerned that you didn't start insulin. Do you know what his numbers were when he was first diagnosed? In very few cases is a cat able to become regulated on food only. It almost always takes at least a little insulin. And the hard truth is that cats who are diabetic and need insulin and don't get it are slowly starving to death, because their bodies can't utilize food well. Is there someone else who could administer the shots? There are people here who were needle phobic and just had to do it. Is that a possibility for you?

The hard truth is that he most likely needs insulin.

 

Hi! I am in the Uk and wanted to know if there is anyone out there who has seen succesful results by diet change only. My cat Willow has just been diagnosed with diabetes altho looking back at symptoms I think he may have had it for a year or so. The vet suggested putting him to sleep 2 weeks ago as he is 14years old & said treatment would be too invloved. Willow stopped eating right after the blood tests. It was obviously too much for him to handle. I am needle phobic so insulin is not an option for me even if I did think he could handle the treatment.

Anyway, I refused & took him home and have been syringe feeding him since. He has lost a lot of weight over the last year and drinks a lot but seems a bit better now than he was just after the vet visit. He has pottered about a bit but is quite lethargic & mainly stays in one room. Still purrs tho!
I just don't want to give up on him. He has started to eat a little bit of Purina Gourmet Gold which seems to be more appealing to him. He usually eats Whiskas canned food (mostly Supermeat) & this is what I have been liquidising & syringing. According to the Binky's Food table I should prob avoid the Whiskas in gravy which is high in carbs.
I am confused as Hill's website suggests 2 foods for diabetic cats (M/D & W/D) but they seem quite high in carbs and are certainly not under 12% as suggested on this site.
Does anyone know if Purina Gourmet Gold in Uk is the equivalent to Fancy Feast in USA?
Any advice appreciated.
Am I being cruel by keeping him going in this way? I am so confused.
Please help!

 

hi there
This is really a tough one - if u have a phobia of needle, u'll mostly likely feel the same with home testing, as the lancet devices are like a mini needle.

I'm not afraid of needles, although I did get the hand shaking and nerves up in a roar over injecting...as I did it more often, it got easier. Maybe there is some support group/articles u can google to get some ideas on learning to overcome that.

As for treating your cat, - yea, insulin is really the best way to treat...I haven't heard of any cats going into remission on diet alone,,, cats going on remission with diet change and insulin is much more feasable...

and some - in some case only need insulin for a little while, as the saying goes, every cat is different.

I would suggest u start with providing some numbers so others can have a better idea of what range your cat is at.

Did your vet to a ketones test?

You say he is lethargic, the possibility of being in high numbers for a period of time can be very unsafe for any cat.
The weight loss also is very scary and basically - diabetics kitties not treated..well. it's not good. I'm really sorry, I hope u can get more suggestions here...please let us know Willow's current numbers or at least the numbers taken at the vets.

 

Please see the other thread started for you as you've received some responses there as well

Jen

 

Re: winsortracey new UK member (moved from Bob and Rusty's threa

(let's stick with one thread/reposting my reply from other thread)

hi there
This is really a tough one - if u have a phobia of needle, u'll mostly likely feel the same with home testing, as the lancet devices are like a mini needle.

I'm not afraid of needles, although I did get the hand shaking and nerves up in a roar over injecting...as I did it more often, it got easier. Maybe there is some support group/articles u can google to get some ideas on learning to overcome that.

As for treating your cat, - yea, insulin is really the best way to treat...I haven't heard of any cats going into remission on diet alone,,, cats going on remission with diet change and insulin is much more feasable...

and some - in some case only need insulin for a little while, as the saying goes, every cat is different.

I would suggest u start with providing some numbers so others can have a better idea of what range your cat is at.

Did your vet to a ketones test?

You say he is lethargic, the possibility of being in high numbers for a period of time can be very unsafe for any cat.
The weight loss also is very scary and basically - diabetics kitties not treated..well. it's not good. I'm really sorry, I hope u can get more suggestions here...please let us know Willow's current numbers or at least the numbers taken at the vets.

 

Here are UK food suggestions:

http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/nonusfd.html

(These next three may take a bit of time to load because they are on the old board which is slow)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... msg-602242
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... msg-918743
http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 527,911527

Felix in jelly seems like a popular UK choice.

 

Thanks all for the replies! This is a wonderful site & can't believe that people out there have taken the time to help me and Willow. I am making more enquiries with my vet as to the results of the blood test & in the meantime have started to introduce a low-carb diet. Thanks again, will keep u posted.

 

Hi and welcome to FDMB.

Looks like you've had some good help.
Although I don't live in the UK at the minute I am British.

It's late here but 2 basic easily available cat foods that are low in carbs are

Felix As Good as it looks 3.4% (we used)(4 flavours in a box, just under £5 for 12 pouches)
Whiskas Mmm 1.1% I believe has been quoted. (though I struggled to find this one tha last time I was in the UK and I know they have bought at least one more line out recently)

Tesco Finest Succulent Chicken Breast Collection Pouches 1.1%

Felix in Jelly (Chicken,tuna,rabbit,turkey,beef) is 8.3%.

The lower the carbs the better. My preference is under 5% because this is the % carbs cats would get in their natural diet (mice)

I was adamant I couldn't shoot insulin too, though because Lucky was extremely fractious and I travel a lot. But with great advice here we did it. Beautiful regulation. It would really help if you can give any fructosamine results as I'm guessing you haven't done hometesting?
Real easy to do once you get the hang of it and effectively like pricking your thumb by accident when sewing (if you use what is called a penlet you don't even see it go in the ear)
Our vet overdosed Lucky on her first shot of insulin, if I hadn't been hometesting...well you can guess.

By swapping Lucky's food from dry to the Felix she went from 482 (ish) to 257 in just under a week. Unfortunatley that is still a diabetic number.

The use of insulin can give beta cells in the Pancreas (that make insulin) chance to recover and that's where you may have a chance of remission (becoming diet controlled by the use of food only, like a type 2 diabetic human). But you need the insulin.

Have you discussed this with your vet after the no to PTS? Or considered shopping around for a vet that has knowledge of Diabetes?
They may try and persuade you to use Caninsulin or Lente (not ideal, but first I think you need to get your head round everything else before making a decision)

I think Kitty is Winsor? The reason he is losing weight is because his body can not process the nutrients from the food he is eating, even if he has a ferocious appetitie he will continue to lose weight.
You could always contact the PDSA for help and advice, that's what their there for.

Good luck and please keep asking questions.

 

TO:winsotracey
From:bob and rusty

I hope this reaches you. I am relatively new here.

My cat is about 14. He began to exhibit diabetes symptoms. He is a cat who permits very little handling. Vet visits are rough and he certainly wouldn't accept insulin needles. I found this website and especially the articles written by Dr. Lisa Piersen (aka lisa dvm.) Especially important was the piece on nutition
I stopped his dry food and cut out all grain(wheat bran and Greenies.) I changed his canned to Wellness brand which is grain free.
His symptoms quickly stopped and he is doing fine. His urine tests glucose free.
This was my experience. I hope this information is of some help to you. Please try to read Dr Piersen's article.

 

Thank u so much for the recent replies. Willow seems to be much better since I changed his diet to very low-carb, whiskas pouches in jelly & Felix (thanks Kate & Lucky). NO MORE GRAVY FOR WILLOW! He is even eating on his own again altho I am syringing a bit of water & food just to be on safe side. Feeding little & often seems to be helpful. He is coming downstairs a lot more & pottering around the garden.

My vets office is sending blood results & a breakdown of costs for treatment. I am still un-decided on the insulin as don't think he will survive another blood-test at the vet let alone an initial hospital stay which is what the vet has advised in order to get the levels correct. He has just about recovered from the last blood test & was stressed out enough to stop eating which was why he got so sick. Just not sure that it is the best thing for him.

He seems happy at the moment & I am taking each day as it comes. The home-testing lancet thing seems to be a good option but not sure if that is possible from the get go. If I can avoid hospitalisation & big blood tests then I may have a chance. I am willing to try & get over the needle-phobia if need be.

Going to read the Dr Piersen's article now - thanks Bob & Rusty! Vet encouranging to hear your story. Maybe there is hope for Willow yet!!

Thanks again, this forum has been SO helpful.

T & Willow x

 

Tracey, graet to hear the food has made a big difference.

There is very little point in taking Willow into the vets for them 'to get his levels correct'. If Willow gets that stressed at the vets they will get way high glucose readings that are not a true reflection of his bg, even on an intravenous blood draw.
Lucky was exactly the same, waste of money to.

This is entirely up to you (and it will get me off my backside!), but Cindy Mousie do newbie kits-this is a glucometer, some test strips and lancets. Just to get you started. I have two one touch meters I have been meaning to send her since before xmas. Obviously she is in the USA. If you would like one,pm me your address and it should get to you by wednesday.
Alternatively, go on ebay, you can pick them up for under a tenner (one touch, accu check-they seem to be the most common ones. Accu check takes less blood than one touch. Think there's freestyle on there too. Have a look at what strips there are to buy on there too. Search 'test strips', one touch test strips', accucheck aviva test strips' glucose test strips' etc. Sometimes people putting them under odd headings so you can miss them. Can pick up 50 strips for anything from £5-£15, just depends on supply and demand at the time).

Then, we can help you with hometesting, you can gauge what Willows range of bg is, then go to vet to start insulin (I've not come across anyone who hasn't had to go on insulin even just for a brief time. Seems to help the beta cells in Pancreas recover). Sooner you do, more chance of getting them diet controlled (but no promises ether, you just don't know).
I get the feeling a lot of vets in UK are as bad/worse than America in terms of knowledge of Diabetes. Getting Lantus or Levemir from the start off would give Willow the best chance. The vet only prescribed one-Caninsulin has an American FDA warning at present (our equivalent of NICE I think it is.) that it's effecyively dodgy. It also doesn't give the results that Lantus/Lev do. If you look at Luks ss you can see the difference between Caninsulin and Levemir and how beautifully regulated she was on Lev.All over shop on Caninsulin. Lente is the other one they may try.
Again we can help provide you with the information on the insulins to support the use of them over Caninsulin/Lente.

You need to get ketodiastix from the chemist too-urine sticks to test for keytones (essentially a lack of insulin),it can be life threatening. Imporatnt if cat has no insulin or your working up to it's ideal dose.
Would be great to see a pic of Willow if you get chance. :smile:

 

Welcome, glad you found this place.

Your cat can easily survive another five years in good health (as my 13-year-old Jock is now), or he can die very unhappy due to lack of treatment.

With some swift intervention and some luck, he might even get off insulin. As many as 80% of newly diagnosed diabetic cats can. But they almost always need shots at first.

Your changing food quickly to Janet & Binky's recommended choices will help a lot! (I use Felix in Jelly, canned, which is about 8% calories from carbs and is cheap.)

As for the rest, it's really just four things, and you've done one of them already, so here it is in as bare a form as possible, from my own post to the old board:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... 15,1877203

* Throw away your dry food. Look up a canned food that's about 45% protein, 45% fat, and 10% carbohydrates BY CALORIE CONTENT, not weight. In Europe, Felix in Jelly is good. In the US, most Fancy Feast (not grilled) are good. Need alternatives? Here's the list: [www.geocities.com]

* Get a slow-acting insulin like Lantus or Levemir, dose by syringe every 12 hours. Do NOT accept your vet's Vetsulin or Caninsulin or Lente offering -- it's for dogs and is too fast-acting for cats.

* Buy a cheap human glucometer and use it (on the cat's ear) before every shot. If you're not sure how well the insulin's working or how long it's lasting in your cat, do a "curve" at home one weekend -- test every 2 hours from shot to shot. Then ask your vet and post on www.felinediabetes.com for advice on how to use that information.

* Start with 0.5 units (twice a day) and work up by a quarter-unit every other day until the blood sugar readings are about 150-200 (8.0 - 11.0) at shot time, and no lower than 50 during the day. Then stay at that dose unless things change drastically.
[Edited to add: If you see a reading below 50 during the day, back off a quarter unit on the next and subsequent shots.)]

That's it.

Best of luck, this is quite possible and you will get over the needlephobia, possibly even before your cat stops needing needles!

 

Once again, thank-u for the replies.
I am taking Kate & Lucy up on the offer for a hometesting kit & speaking to vet tomorrow.
Will get the Ketodiastix form the chemist as advised to test for keytones, presume they are sold for human use.
I am unsure with lots of the new termonology but willing to try hard to get over the needle phobia thing.
It's quite daunting but I guess all of u were in the same boat to begin with.
Great support, thank you all.
Will be back soon!

 

Just watched videos on how to hometest & give shots. Getting my head around all this.
Kate & Lucky - will I need to purchase a glucometer too? Is that the same as a human one from a chemist?
Did u get my PM with address details - sorry, need to get used to this site.
T&W

 

Plse ignore my last post - getting a bit overwhelmed! Have just realised that it is a human glucometer & it's included in the newbie kit that Kate & Lucy sending. Need to concentrate more, sorry!

 

Hi Tracey,

been trying to reply to your pm-you have message receipt disabled.

This is essentially what I said;
Hi Tracey.

No charge for the glucometer. We call it paying forward. A lady called Lynne in America sent me one!!
I'll get it in the post tomorrow.
If you start a new thread about hometesting, beans (us humans)will give you lots of tips and links to videos that you can watch. The easier your cat is the easier it is. Lucky was extremely fractious, so it took me a bit of doing. I reckon that I was hitting the right spot that first night but needed to do something called 'milking'. This is where I lightly applied pressure and stroked above/below where I had pricked with a lancet for the blooddroplet to show. It literally is the same as pricking your finger sewing.

It won't hurt Willow-s/he may twitch their ear in response, which is why using a rice sock gives you a firm surface to lat cats ear on and keep your finger on when you prick to reduce chance of them flicking their ear and spattering their blood.
I would sit on the floor. Had to use a small throw for Lucky and wrap her up. Wouls have everything ready by the side of me. Once I'd taken the reading, if it was o.k, I would feed her. When she was done, I would shoot her insulin. A lot of beans here do that while kitty is eating. Lucky just didn't like it. You'll know pretty quick what your cats preference is.


Yes he has a chance even if been diabetic for a year or more. Not sure about getting Willow off insulin, but certainly you can give quality of life.
See you on your thread. :smile:

 

Brilliant! Thanks Kate, I will have a go at hometesting when kit arrives & hopefully get him started on insulin ASAP. Perhaps I will be able to repay the favour myself one day.
Sorry, I have just reset to allow personal messages.
I think I will be able to hometest Willow, he is quite placid.
Figured out that Freestyle just another brand name.
Bye for now,
Tracey

 

Hi again,

no poblems, you've spurned me on. I promised Cindy I would send the 2 I have before xmas, just haven't got round to it. I've put instruction stuff in also.

Sorry forgot to reply about the Freestyle.

When you talk to vet, I would seriously push for Lantus or Levemir. They are human insulins, but have been found to have fantastic results in diabetic cats. You can go to the Lantus isg (look on the board index) and read the stickies. It quotes the latest study by Rand.

If they push you for Caninsulin or Lente please do your best to decline, there just not very good insulins (caninsulin is only for animals, but there is also an FDA warning on it in America-equivalent of our NICE I think.I.e problems and the company are recommending vets transition cats to alternative insulins)

You don't need your vets permission to homtest, just in case they are against the idea (mine were against or tookconvincing-luck of the draw it would seem-but essentially they can't stop you!)

I'd suggest starting a new thread for any new questions, especially about hometesting.
As it's the start of the week tomorrow, you should get the kit by Weds (afraid it takes 2 days even by 1st class), but in the mean time you can do some research on it. Look back at previous threads-usualy say something about hometesting in them and then point you to lots of links.

Also, just in case, don't buy any of the Science Hills stuff (M/D,W/D etc-it's very poor quality but a nice mark up!)

I'll check in on you tomorrow.

Glad to hear that the food has already made a difference to Willow :mrgreen: Scritches from me.

 

Me again,

just to say parcel in the post

 

Thanks so much! I will look out for it.
Not sure if your parcel includes lancets & test strips - need to get going on e-bay if not. You have been generouse enough already, just let me know if I need to get.
Have ordered urine testing strips to pick up from chemist 2moro. Cheap!
My vet called today with costs etc & is still saying that he wouldn't want to put a cat of Willow's age thru diabetes treatment. He spoke to my husband as I was on school run. Rang another vet in town who said they would be willing to treat Willow but had never heard of the Lantus or Levemir insulins - prob 'cos they are for humans eh!
So, not much luck there but will perservere.
I did buy the Hills canned diet but stopped feeding after half a can when I found out carbs were 13%. Sticking to Whiskas pouches in jelly & a bit of Friskies tuna in jelly from the food table. He seems fine on those which are very low in carbs & cheap!
Will research home-testing now.
Bye for now
Tracey

 

Hi Tracey,

I have included 25 test strips and about the same or more lancets. You will still need to order more as generaly you will use a minimum of 3 or 4 a day.

You just need a vet to agree to write you a prescription for the Lantus/Levemir and then agree to learn with you.You can print off the Rand research results to show them.
Lucky was 15 when I started treating her.

Bit confused about your food. Thought you were using Felix too? Didn't think you could get Friskies in UK?
Need to limit fish flavours to once a week. Only time you give more frequently is if kitty isn't eating.

Good luck with the hometesting.

 

Sorry, meant to say Felix (have a teething baby & lack of sleep effecting my concentration!)- it is the tuna in jelly one so will limit as u advised.
Thanks for including the lancets etc.
Willow doing even better today, eating lots! Amazing what diet change alone does.
Going to look at Rand Research now.
Lucky was a beauty!
Tx

 

Hi Kate
Just wanted to confirm safe arrival of your package today.
Have read thru your notes but have not tested Willow tonight as he seems a bit off again. Thanks again for taking so much time & effort to send me the package - shouldn't have any questions as think u have covered everything - if I do I will start a new thread.
God bless.
T & W xxx

 

Great,

glad you've received it.

Hope you can make sense of everything-even my litle diagram!

Hope Willow is perkier tomorrow. Don't forget if you have problems just post away.

Good Luck

 

Diagram fine! I have watched a vid of home-testing on you-tube too so ok to try, just waiting until Willow seems back to normal. Got him sleeping in my room tonight. Seems a bit better again already tho. Gave him a little water with syringe.
Yes, got the k-sticks & have cup waiting for the right time to collect urine!!
Hope u feel better yourself!
Oh, & thanks for the sock & toy! Very thoughtful of you!
Tx

 

Hi Tracey,

any luck on the testing?
How are things generally with Winsor?

 

Hiya Kate!
Just wanted to say all ok with Willow - had a LOT of mesages here & couldn't log on to site- something strange happening, praps virus???
Back soon to update!
Tracey

 

Hi Tracey,

glad to hear from you :mrgreen:

Not not a virus with the pm's. A member sent a pm to another member and accidentally added 'all registered users' which set of a chain of people replying who also sent to 'all registered users'. The more people tried to stop it, the worse it got! Quite funny, except for those people using blackberry's etc or coming through on their work emails.
You just go to your message box.Tick all the boxes of all the messages to delete and then at the bottom of the message box is a white box saying something like 'marked/unmarked;. Click at side as is a dropdown menu. It says 'delete selected'. click on that and then 'go'. It then asks are you sure you want to delete selected messages. Click 'yes' and hey presto :mrgreen:

There was lots of Lurve going round :lol:

Can't wait to hear how Willow is doing.
Any probs just shout up. :smile: