New Member - Going Crazy

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Heather & Ducote, May 24, 2020.

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  1. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Hello. My cat was diagnosed on 5/08/20. I have been going nuts trying to regulate his numbers with no avail. I am not eating, not sleeping, researching day and night (this board has been a God send!), and I have a knot in my stomach at all times :(. My cat lost lots of weight, started drinking heavily, staying hungry, and urinating a lot. I took him to the vet for bloodwork and they said his glucose was close to 500 and gave me Vestulin 1u twice a day. I went home and ordered a glucose monitor. It came in on 5/19/20 and I started home testing. I was shocked at his numbers! I immediately made changes at home. I picked up all dry food and now feed him Fancy Feast twice a day with his doses and I used his glucose readings to change insulin doses. I did try to talk to my vet about changing doses but they are proving to be very unhelpful (I left three messages on 5/20 with no return call. I called back on 5/21 and finally spoke to someone who told me to email them my data and she would get back to me. I completed an at-home glucose curve the next day and emailed her all of the data but no response yet. I am winging this on my own). I know that it is still early but am beginning to become hopeless about ever getting him regulated. I am scared because his numbers stay "HI" for most of the day. I plugged my numbers into the spreadsheet for review. Could it be the Vestulin? Should I inquire about Lantus? Am I not giving enough time between switching doses? Am I freaking out for nothing or are all cats hard to regulate at first?
     
  2. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Welcome!!

    I’ll let others more experienced talk about insulin and dosage. I’ll just say this, it takes time. I know it sucks and we want a quick fix but that’s just not how diabetes works. It took over 6 months for me, but it will be a lot less for you I promise because you’re already doing so many right things like testing and being here and I was clueless for too long. As many say here, feline diabetes is a marathon not a sprint. It does and it will get better I also promise you that. Minnie also lost a ton of weight and had severe neuropathy and now she’s dealing with other issues but the diabetes and the neuropathy were both regulated so there’s hope and you just have to be patient and know you’re doing your best and you’re doing an awesome job, especially by questioning the vet! :bighug:

    hang on for more comments and welcome again!
     
  3. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    YOU HAVE FOUND THE best place to help you help your Ducote!
    WELCOME TO FDMB! Your kitty didnt come down with diabetes in a day and he woulnt be regulated in a day. Like Ale said its going to take time. You've already set up your spreadsheet (way above what I had done back in the day!) Once some of our experts get to your post they will help you with the dosing. The most important thing you have done is you've found us. ;)

    Again welcome to the best darn site on the planet with practical help for Ducote. :bighug:
    :coffee:
     
  4. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Thank you both! This is so scary and it is a little better to know that I am not alone! I agree that this forum is amazing, I have learned so much. Yesterday alone I spent 8 hours combing through posts and I can't seem to stop today either.

    I know that regulation takes time but at the beginning were your numbers steadily super high as well? How long did it take to see any change at all? If is numbers were fluctuating I think that I would feel a little more at ease.
     
  5. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Welcome! I’m so glad you’ve found us! It does take time to get kitty regulated. How’s he feeling otherwise?
     
  6. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

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    May 23, 2020
    I am glad as well <3 Besides staying hungry and thirsty all day long he is fine.
     
  7. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  8. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
  9. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    It’s hard to say especially because I wasn’t home testing her from the get go and also every cat is different ECID I know that’s not the answer you want to hear but it’s true :oops:
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  10. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    The La in my case is Louisiana:D Would love to see your LA someday though!!!
     
  11. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Sharon14 likes this.
  12. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I was started on NPH insulin. It hit hard and fast. Troubles numbers rivaled a yo yo. We managed to get him OTJ after about a year. Removing the dry food was instrumental.
     
  13. Dusty & Roe

    Dusty & Roe Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    I just wanted to add you are being a Great Mom but your Vet not helping does not Help this at all and does nothing but Frustrates the learning process . The members here are so Knowledgeable and kind they can guide you . So deep breath and if you just need to talk feel free anytime Roe
     
  14. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Feeding twice a day is very old school, especially for a cat that needs to gain the weight lost.
    Read the section on feeding in the Beginners Guide mentioned above. Vetsulin drops a cat fast and hard. Some snacks during the first part of the cycle help.
     
  15. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020



    Thanks! I was worried about feeding too much since his numbers were staying so high. On Vestulin he drops about 4 hrs after the first dose but it is not a big drop (in the 500's) and then he is right back up a couple hours later. Should I give him a three meals a day or go with a snack here and there?
     
  16. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I fed my cat several small meals between his larger AM and PM meals. Try not to feed much after his nadir, and nothing for at least 2 hours Preshot test.
     
  17. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Snacks, especially early in the cycle are best. Some people do not feed during that last part of the cycle when the insulin is starting to wear off. Just make sure you do not feed for the last 2 hours of the cycle. You do not want your test at the start of the next cycle to be influenced by food.

    From: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/

    FEEDING SCHEDULES - CANINSULIN (VETSULIN)

    Do not be tempted to reduce the amount of your cat’s food in hopes that this will reduce her overall BG levels. This could be detrimental to your cat’s health. Your cat needs to eat an appropriate amount of food for her size and weight. There are certain circumstances, however, when it is helpful to temporarily withhold food (or rather, to delay feeding): these circumstances are explained further down this section.

    • There are particular considerations when using faster-acting insulins such as Caninsulin (Vetsulin), - especially for newcomers or for those with little or no data about how their cat responds. This is because the insulin can sometimes drop the BG fast in the first few hours of the cycle.
    • It can be a good idea to feed your cat 20 - 30 minutes before giving insulin. This ensures there is food on board for when the insulin starts to work. So, the sequence would be: 1. Test BG. 2. Feed. 3. Wait 20 - 30 mins. 4. Give the insulin shot. (If you are not yet home testing it is still advisable to feed and then wait before giving the shot).
    • Some caregivers feed a snack (or part of the main meal) an hour and a half to two hours after the shot, to slow down the rate at which the BG is dropping.
    • If you can determine when your cat's nadir (lowest BG) typically occurs during a 12-hour cycle, you can try to make food available at that time. Timed feeders can be helpful for folks who can’t be there in person to feed their cat.
    • ‘Bouncing’: If the BG drops too fast this may be sensed as ‘dangerous’ by the body whether the cat is actually in danger or not. (‘Too fast’ could mean faster than 100 mg/dL [5.5 mmol/L] per hour - although the ‘trigger’ number varies from cat to cat.) When this happens the body may seek to protect itself by releasing stored glucose, thereby raising the BG to a much higher level. We call this ‘bouncing’ - a common phenomenon - and bouncing can happen when the BG drops too fast and/or too low. As said above, it may be possible to slow down the rate that the BG is dropping by feeding a snack. It may also be that a dose reduction is appropriate. DO post on the Main Health forum if you need further advice
    • Some caregivers using Caninsulin (Vetsulin) withhold food for the second half of the cycle, to slow down the rate at which the BG rises as the effect of the insulin wears off. If your cat’s BG rises fast after the peak of the cycle you may find this technique useful.
    • In any case it can be helpful, if possible, to withhold food for the two hours prior to a pre-shot BG test. This is just to ensure that the test result is a ‘true’ reading and isn’t influenced by food.


    Q: Why is my cat so hungry?
    When initially diagnosed your cat may behave like she is starving. That’s because prolonged high BG, and insufficient insulin, make it hard for her body to utilise her food. Once her BG is under better control her appetite should return to normal.
    Your cat may need feeding more than twice a day. Many cats do well on a number of smaller meals fed throughout the day. Some cats can be ‘free fed’ for much of the time.

    Multi-cat households
    It can be helpful to get all cats in a household onto diabetic-friendly food if possible. The best diet for diabetic cats is great for most non-diabetics too.
     
  18. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Going back to your dosing question, I’ll tag a couple members for input. @JanetNJ
    @Deb & Wink
     
  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    HI! Welcome to FDMB! I want to start by saying you are doing an AWESOME JOB by being so proactive, researching, and most of all, home testing. I did not home test the first six weeks, and once I did start, I wished I had started right away!! Testing helped me take a breath and not be scared she was going to low, and really helped me figure out how to help her. I also want to repeat what others have said, and that is that it is a MARATHON.

    OK... food... feed him as much as he needs. DIabetic cats that are unregulated cannot properly utilize the nutrients in the food, so they are starving even if they are eating. Just no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the numbers are accurate.

    Looking at his spreadsheet I can see why you are so concerned. it's scary to see those black numbers. If you don't already have them, get either keosticks to test for ketones in urine or get a ketone reading meter... it works the same as a glucose meter but measures ketones. This is what I use because I can never catch my cat in the litterbox. I got the keto mojo on amazon, but you can read reviews or just keosticks that you dip in urine at the pharmacy.

    good job picking up the dry food. NOOO more of that, and no treats like temptations or party mix either. Is the fancy feast you are feeding the pate kind? No gravy foods.

    I would stick with the 3.5 for a few more cycles, then raise to 4 on monday morning then hold that dose a few cycles. I think your cat is stuck in glucose toxcitity and you need to find the breakthrough dose. He's probably been high for a very long time and is kind of stuck.

    If it makes you feel better I didn't see any numbers under 300 for over 2.5 months, but once I found his breakthrough dose (for me it was 3 units) it started to come down, and at 4 months my cat went into remission for a year before coming back out because of a pituitary tumor (making her a high dose kitty). Not all cats get into remission but I can tell you that they can live long HEALTHY lives with diabetes. My cat has been diabetic 4 years as of this month. :)

    Do you have a copy of the bloodwork at all? I'm wondering if there's some kind of underlying infection raising the numbers.
     
  20. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    From the limited data, it looks like to me that Ducote is going to be a high-dose cat. At 4 units you see a good drop and one 3.5 you see less of a drop. At lower does you see little if any drop. It is hard to tell because a lot of the BGs are greater than the range of the meter.
     
  21. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    Thank you for the detailed response! As far as food, I looked through the food chart on found on this website and bought a variety of Fancy Feast that fell around 7% carbs. I think you are right about him being high for some time. He was gradually losing weight but we had introduced a second kitty so we thought that it was stress induced weight loss. By the time the other symptoms started appearing and I put two and two together, 6 months or more had passed :(. I haven't heard of glucose toxicity before but I will surely look that up now. Thank you for the dosing advice, I think that it sounds like a good plan! I do not have the bloodwork. I brought him in during the COVID restrictions so I had to sit in my car during his visit and they just brought him out to me with the meds and told me that his blood sugar was "almost 500" and to give him 1 unit twice a day. I had thought about infections messing with his levels as well but about three weeks before the diagnosis appointment I brought him in due to the potty accidents thinking that he had a bladder infection. The doctor didn't do bloodwork because my cat was overly stressed but he did give him an antibiotic shot that he said would clear up any underlining problems.
     
  22. Patty & Teal'c

    Patty & Teal'c Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    My vet was pretty much unhelpful also. He gave me the insulin (prozinc) and needles. Told me to give 2 units and sent me on my way. No follow up visits nothing. I too had to wing it. I found this message board and am starting to see better numbers. This didnt happen over night. If you look at his SS you will see he is a very bouncy boy. But just this week he cleared a bounce in 1 day and is now giving more good numbers. This is because of the special people that give their time to help us learn the sugar dance.
     
  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    They don't usually give you the lab reports unless you ask for them. I always call and ask them to EMAIL the labs to me, which they always do. So maybe just call them up and ask for them to email them to you so you can have a record at home. The antibiotic shot isn't very effective for UTI unfortunately... Oral antibiotics are more effective, SO it could very well be that there IS an underlying infection... which would show as a high white blood cell count in the labs. With numbers this high though, i want to stress again to keep measuring ketones. Anything over a trace is an emergency and would require a vet visit. I also suggest adding extra water to the food. I always put at least 2 oz of water mixed in with the food to help keep her hydrated.
     
  24. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    You are not alone, I’ve felt like I’ve been losing my mind (quite literally) all week.
     
  25. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I remember those days. :rolleyes:
     
  26. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    I just can't shake it :( I try to think about other things but I am so worried. And my hubby does not have a bond with our cat (even though we have had him for 11 years) because the cat is only nice to me. So I hear a lot of unhelpful remarks about my worrying and about what he would do if it were up to him, blah blah blah. I am also stressing because we have a two week trip out of town scheduled starting 6/8 (it has been planned for almost a year) and we are planning on boarding the cat at the vet (but my trust in them is slowly going down hill). I just don't want to leave him right now and I fear that the trip is going to be one big ball of anxiety. I stay awake at night thinking about what I would do if I got a call when I am out of state that something horrible happened :nailbiting:. I know that I need to take this one day at a time but I sure would feel better if I could at least see one good reading at some point :(
     
  27. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Awww Ducote is adorable. I know what you mean about losing sleep from worry...I think we ll have been through that.

    You mean to tell me your hubby has never heard of.."HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE?" Here let me have a talk with him.;):coffee:
     
  28. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I hope you can get this figured out with the help from everyone here.
    What a gorgeous boy Ducote is, best of luck
     
  29. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

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    May 23, 2020

    LOL! If only he lived by that! :cat:
     
  30. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @Deb & Wink Hi Deb if you get a chance, I know you are busy , could you take a look @HDucote spreadsheet . Even when Tyler was on vetsulin he was never ever this high, so I really don't know how to help her. Thank you so much Deb.
    I can't remember anyone to tag that might have had their cat on vetsulin
    Thanks again. I just feel so bad for this kitty being this high for so long
     
  31. Buddy’s Ma

    Buddy’s Ma Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    100% get. this.

    I’ve developed slight agoraphobia and hate leaving the house now. I’ve been planning how to train Buddy to travel with me if this doesn’t go into remission. If Taylor Swift can travel with her cat in that cool cat backpack, dammit, so can I.

    Do whatever you feel is right for you. Maybe start interviewing pet sitters instead? Or look at postponing if possible - covid prob isn’t making travelling the most fun right now anyway!

    At the end of the day trips come and go, but our fur babies are one of a kind.
     
  32. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    How to check for ketones? I have bought the ketone test strips but how to get the urine from the cat?

    Can I put the scooped litter in a cup, pour some water, and then use the ketone strip to test?
     
  33. Dusty & Roe

    Dusty & Roe Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    I was told to use a spoon . I found that if I took a disposable coffee cup and cut it down to the bottom rim leaving a little edge I could slide it under her real quick .
     
  34. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you. All our litter boxes are with lid. I am afraid I may scare them if I lift the lid when they are peeing...
     
  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Well another way to go is to get a ketone blood meter. That's what I use. Works just like a bg meter.
     
  36. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    No that will not work. You need to catch some fresh urine BEFORE it soaks into the litter.
    Catching and Testing Urine link with lots of ideas.

    Or you can buy a separate meter that tests the blood for ketones. More real time accuracy, when you test the blood for ketones instead of the urine, which is hours old before it exits your cat.
     
  37. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    No you can't add water

    Urine Ketone Testing
    keto-stix (which measure urine ketones only). These are available in any pharmacy or chemist, and are not expensive.

    To use the urine strips, the best thing to do is to try and place them under the urine stream as your cat is urinating – this can take some practice! Some people have had success putting a ladle or long handled spoon under their cat as it is urinating. Some say crinkle up something like foil where they pee to collect it

    The urine does need to be fresh to give accurate results.

    It is very important to count off the exact number of seconds indicated in the instructions of the Keto-stix you have purchased. Reading the results too soon will give falsely low results…. Waiting too long will give false high results.It must be read in 15 seconds

    Results are read by comparing the colour on the test strip with the colour on the canister:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  38. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Can you take him with you? It took me awhile, but I finally got China comfortable in the car and from then on, when I needed to go out of town, she came with me. Nobody will take care of your cat like you will was my motto!

    If it's absolutely not possible, there are many petsitting services out there. Some come to your home, others take the animal into their home. Some come a certain number of times per day, some will stay in your home the whole time (which can be good for keeping break-ins from happening due to the house obviously being empty)

    Search for "petsitters near (your town)" and you should find some options. You can interview them, bring them into your home to see how they get along with your cat(s) as well as getting a better feel for them.
     
  39. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Could you add to your signature what kind of meter you are using
     
  40. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you. I am doing a research on the ketone blood meter. May I know which one you are using? Does it require lots of blood?
     
  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Ducote's SS kind of reminds me of @Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man and her cat Tiger. You need to keep upping the dose with some frequency until you get out of those black numbers.

    Here is Tiger's SS when he first started getting insulin. <<<<< Just click on the blue text to the left there, to open his SS. He was started on Prozinc first, as Jacque already had another diabetic cat that was using Prozinc. Moved him to Vetsulin, where we even had her try TID dosing which is really hard on the caregiver, then back to Prozinc, then on to Levemir where Tiger is doing much better.

    Prodigy, talking human glucometer. This does need to go in your User Id Signature when you get a chance.

    Does Ducote have access to any other pet's food? Might he be eating that without your knowledge, or even getting into some type of human food unbeknownst to you? You said you have a second kitty. Is that second cat also being fed the low carb Fancy Feast food?

    Did you find the Sticky Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin) in our ISG forum for
    Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH ?

    You probably want to print that guide out, to have as a reference and to study it and ask questions.


     
  42. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you. I think getting a ketone blood meter should be easier than catching the cat's urine.
     
  43. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you. Plan to get a ketone blood meter. Any recommendation?
     
  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I use the keto MOJO. It doesn't come with many strips so I'd get a refill. KETO-MOJO Bluetooth Blood Ketone and Glucose Testing Kit –10 Ketone & 10 Glucose Test Strips, 10 Lancets, 1 Meter, 1 Lancing Device, Monitor Your Ketogenic Diet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0789G8KTG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_YsXYEbVT67B25
     
  45. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    The ketosense looks to be slightly cheaper
     
  46. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Can I ask a silly question? Can a non-diabetic cat develope ketoacidosis? for example, when a cat is not eating or eating very little?
     
  47. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you very much.
     
  48. Liang & Nathan

    Liang & Nathan Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Thank you very much.
     
  49. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Thank you Deb
     
  50. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Thank you Deb
     
  51. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    I have a Prodigy meter that I got off of Amazon.
     
    JanetNJ likes this.
  52. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    Thank you so much for sharing! Tiger's SS made me feel a little relief. I have been looking at different spreadsheets and I haven't seen any with as much black as Ducote's so I thought he was the only one. Ducote did have access to other food before but I took it all away. I changed my other kitty to wet food (who is not liking this change at all) and feed them in separate rooms and I also have a 12 year old dachshund and I now only put out her food at certain times of the day while I put Ducote in another room. As of now Ducote only has access to the food that I give to him. And yes, I have read the guide twice over! I am trying to absorb everything that I can lol!
     
  53. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Yes, it's possible...ketones are produced when the body starts burning fat due to lack of calories. If the cat's not diabetic, there may be other disease processes going on

    It's more common for a non-diabetic cat that's eating nothing to suffer from hepatic lipidosis. If a non-diabetic cat hasn't eaten for 48 hours, they need to see a vet.
     
  54. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    I know that it is not a good reading yet but I am celebrating anyway.....I got my first purple today! I wanted to shout it from the rooftops! I am just crossing my fingers that he is on a better path and I will start to see more numbers besides black and red soon! :bookworm:
     
  55. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    heeheeheeee I remember those days CELEBRATE! We dance in your honor! wheeeeeeeee
     
  56. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Hooray!!!! KEEP GOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  57. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
  58. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
  59. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Slow but steady progress for Ducote!

    Remember to always get that pre-shot test, to make sure that Ducote's BG level is high enough to give insulin. It's a good habit to get into. Even though Ducote's BG levels are very high right now, they may not stay that way.

    Pink, pink, pink. Loving the pink on the SS!
     
  60. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    I haven't had a "HI" reading in two days. Even though they were still high numbers, the meter didn't say "HI" and I took that as a win. I was very discouraged when his morning stick read "HI" today, I could have cried! I beat myself up because I had to leave my house last night and run an errand so I gave him his pm dose 30 minutes early and I was sure that I had just messed everything up when I saw his morning reading. I just now took his +5 reading and it was my his first yellow!! YELLOW! I could just cry again now but for different reasons! Who would have known when he got diagnosed that it would be such a rollercoaster of emotions. My vet sure made it sound like no big deal when they handed me the insulin through my car window and said 1 unit twice a day and goodbye. This sure has been a journey and I am not even one month in yet o_O

    Question for future reference: I am currently giving 4 units and his pre checks are still high numbers (anywhere from Hi, 500's, and one time 400's). Once pre checks begin to show lower numbers (for instance 300's or 200's) do I stay with the 4 units because this means that it is working or do you go to a lower dose at that point?
     
  61. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    WE DO! Now you are included ...welcome to the family :p
    BTW another euphemism we use is ..."Diabetes is not a sprint, its a marathon. ;):coffee:
     
  62. Beck and Philly

    Beck and Philly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    First of all...BREATHE! You need to be able to digest what's happening and take clear, calm action instead of reactions.

    We are in this together. I've been on this journey before, and the folks here became like family. You're in the right place. But every cat is different, and today is day one for my cat. I don't know what Philly's journey will be like. We will figure it out.

    High numbers are scary, low numbers can be scary, too. He's likely been high for awhile before you knew it, and he was surviving. Now that you know the numbers doesn't make him any different than he was a few weeks ago. You now have tools to help him.

    Take a breath and only focus on the next step in front of you. Consistency is key right now. Make changes after hearing from experienced folks here.

    We all believe that vets should have all the answers because they are trained. Chances are, they've not lived with a fraction of the numbers of diabetic cats this group has. They also deal with tons of illnesses in a day where this group concentrates on one. A good vet is a valuable team member, but not the only voice that matters.

    Hang in there. We can do this.
     
  63. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    WOOT!:cat:
     
  64. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    Thank you! Your words are so helpful! You are right about him probably being sick for a while. I noticed him losing weight a year ago but we had gotten a new kitty and I chalked it up to stress :(. I fear that it has gone on for a long time without treatment. I think that knowing the numbers (although very helpful and necessary) make it a bit more nerve wracking.
     
  65. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    yay and celebrate the wins even if they’re small victories to us they’re huge battles because we fought them tooth and nail!!! :bighug:

    To answer your question, we don’t adjust the dose based on the preshot numbers as I’m constantly reminded here. It’s based on the nadir or lowest number within a cycle, so keep that in mind :cat:
     
  66. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I'm so excited about the yellow! He may bounce and get high again just because his body isn't used to those lower numbers yet. Give him a chance to come down. Stay with 4 units longer until you start seeing mid cycle readings approaching lower end of normal... then we will say cut it back a little. You are doing great! we will want to up the dose in a couple days to try to get more of those yellows down.
     
  67. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    You were right, his check before pm dose was "HI" :confused: Tomorrow is another day and hopefully we will see better numbers.
     
  68. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Slowly, as Ducote becomes used to lower numbers, the bounces will be less. Congratulations on the yellow.
     
  69. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    It's a marathon. That yellow was a nice sight to see though. :). Id be good with you trying 4.5 tomorrow if you're up for it. Or you could do 4 another day. Looks like you may have a high dose kitty. When is time for a new bottle of insulin, consider getting a longer acting one like ProZinc. ProZinc stings less at higher doses then vetsulin. I used vetsulin until I hit 5 units, then it started to sting my cat and she got mad at shot time. What do you think @Red & Rover (GA)
     
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Dosing changes are based on the lows also know as the nadir. That usually happens in the middle of the cycle, around +4 to +6 with most cats using Vetsulin (Caninsulin), but you need to find when it happens for your cat. The nadir time does not always stay the same from cycle to cycle either, just to add a bit more confusion to your life.

    The dose gets lowered according to the protocols we use here. So no, a pre-shot test in the 300's or 200's does not mean a dose reduction. Lower pre-shots do tell you the insulin is working, and you do not want to stop the momentum by reducing the dose too soon. Of course, a pre-shot <100 mg/dL does mean you need to stop and think about your next step. So we recommend you post here for help.

    Ducote looks much better in yellow. Hope he gives you more readings like that in the future, and even some blues and greens eventually. :)
     
  71. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
    I have another question :bookworm:

    I switched Ducote to Fancy Feast wet food twice a day. I was told that twice a day is not enough and he needed to be fed small meals throughout the day. Fancy Feast can get expensive if I gave him as many cans as he would like, so instead I bought 9Lives Meaty Pate Super Supper just to give him a tablespoon here and there when he seems hungry. I got this food because it came in the big 13oz can so I could put one of those tops that go on the can and it lasts for a couple of days. So, long story short he is getting Fancy Feast twice a day with his doses and about 3-4 tablespoons of the 9lives throughout the day. Since his numbers are staying high I was wondering if maybe the 9lives is keeping him up there. I tried to look up the carb info on this brand/type but I can't find anything. Could this be part of my problem?
     
  72. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  73. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020
  74. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I'm glad you moved to 4.5. If he gets to the point of 6 units then consider having him tested for acromegaly. My cat has it and it makes her a high dose kitty. At her most she was getting 12.5 units twice a day.
     
  75. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Many people also feed the Friskies pate style foods. Not quite as low as the Fancy Feast pates, but still worth a try.
    Some cats actually do better on a bit higher carbs.
    Something to think about and maybe try with your cat Ducote.
     
  76. Heather & Hwy 99

    Heather & Hwy 99 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2020
    OMG I swear, I almost thought I was reading a posting I forgot writing! My name is Heather also, but the anxiety, not eating/sleeping/stressing, desperately researching and feeling abandoned and frustrated by my vet...this board really has been a God send!! I dont have anything to add except I relate, and admire your dedication to your sugar baby-you stress because you care :)
     
  77. Heather & Ducote

    Heather & Ducote Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2020

    It is a feeling like no other! I have heard quite a few times from my hubby that I am becoming "a crazy cat lady" :stop: but for the life of me I can not stop stressing and researching until I figure this thing out. Your sweet Hwy 99 reminds me of my Ducote :cat:
     
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