New Member - Overwhelmed

Hi all, so happy to have this site as a resource! Here's my situation: I live in a very rural area and oversee a ranch for a friend, and have been here for 4 years. I take care of all the animals, including llamas, goats and five cats. Two of the cats I have raised from kittens, and three of the cats I inherited when the original 92-year old caretaker died. All are outdoor cats, and I have developed a very close bond with them despite the disapproval of the ranch owner who prefers a very hands-off approach. Regardless, I continue to care for the animals as best I can and pay for everything - all food and care. The senior cat Grandma (10-12 years old, about 7 lbs, don't have her full history as she's one I inherited) was diagnosed with an upper respiratory infection at the end of March and during that vet visit her BG was in the high 300's. The vet wanted to get the URI under control before addressing the possible diabetes. I started reading up on it and it became very clear she was diabetic given her hunger, frequent peeing and drinking and somewhat weak back legs. I feel terrible that I missed the signs. It took well over a month and was pretty touch and go, but Grandma finally recovered from the URI so I took her in for repeat bloodwork and just got the call that the BG is 396.

I have a difficult situation. The cat is 100% outdoors but is very, very mellow and easily controlled, but I am her only caregiver. I have tried over the years to find a reliable pet sitter but haven't had any luck. And I am in the travel business so I typically can be gone quite a bit, although right now I won't be traveling anytime soon with COVID. But further down the road I think it will be very difficult to find anyone to help and I will have absolutely no support from the owner (nor can I even tell him about it). But since I know I will be here for the foreseeable future I feel like I need to at least try and hope for remission.

The vet is aware of my situation, and she suggested starting with diet changes only and re-checking a 2-3 weeks. Grandma has been on mostly wet food (Friskies and Fancy Feast, which is what her original owner fed them) so I know there is some improvement to be made there. I was initially very relieved when the vet said diet only, but as I have been reading all the great info here I am now worried that I'll be losing precious time.

I would appreciate any advice. Sorry for the long post but I felt the background was necessary info.

 

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Thank you for caring for the animals.

With the food.....Fancy feast and friskies is perfectly ok to feed. The pates in the fancy feast is best. You need to aim for 10% carbs or less.
I will put a link at the bottom for you to check the foods.
There is no need to feed prescription foods from the vet. They are no better than the ones you can buy from the shops and they cost a lot more and are often lower carb as well. No dry food.
I don’t think I would wait any longer to start the insulin if you have been feeding fancy feast. And you have already waited for the URI to resolve.
Can you tell us what type of fancy feast it has been please?
The danger of leaving it too long to start the insulin if the cat is diabetic is that ketones can form and then you have another situation to deal with which can turn dangerous quickly.

As far as when you travel, can you leave the cat with the vet when you are away?

Not sure what type of Insulin the vet is suggesting but Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc Would be best.

keep asking questions, we are very happy to help and once you get the insulin we can help you moving forward.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

Other useful links
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/feline-diabetic-neuropathy-weak-back-legs.178252/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
Bron

 

Thanks so much for the quick reply. In the morning I usually feed Fancy Feast, which is either from the Grilled Seafood pack or the Gourmet Naturals pate. In the evening it's one of the Friskie's in gravy. Midday snacks are one of the Nutro chicken or turkey pates.

Thanks for the suggestion of leaving the cat with the vet if I travel, it's something to look into but that always worries me. She's an outdoor cat and I think it would be extremely stressful for her to be cooped up for two weeks. But I guess the alternative isn't great.

 

Hi Nancy and welcome!

I wouldn’t wait either. My vet suggested the same when Minnie was first diagnosed. Let’s try to control it with food only first and I think it was a big mistake. It is as you said precious time you’re wasting. It sounds like she’s also already developing neuropathy so the longer you wait, the more severe it can get. I don’t mean to scare you, but Minnies neuropathy was so severe she could barely take more than 2-3 steps without having to rest. For an outdoor cat, that would be overwhelming and could be dangerous as well. The good news is that they recover as Minnie did and there is a great supplement you can get her started on once the diabetes is under control that helps with the recovery as well, b12 methyl.

anyway, thank you for taking care of all the animals and the cats. You have my dream job!!

 

Have a look at the foods you feed now and see how many carbs they have. You may be able to make improvements there.
I would also recommend home testing if you think that would be possible, it’s better all round. No guess work and it is so much safer.
Lucky Grandma to have you.

 

So I called the vet and said I was ready to start insulin right away so I have an appointment for Grandma in the morning. I asked what to expect and here's what the vet said:
--one unit Prozinc 2x a day
--does not believe in home testing, says it can cause too much stress in the relationship and for some the benefits aren't worth those risks
--I asked about the urine strips and she also doesn't recommend.
--will check levels in one month, and then every 3-6 months afterwards
--she said that bloodwork is important but just as important is watching behavior, because sometimes behaviors are better but numbers may not reflect that, so she likes to look at more than just numbers
--I asked if she's personally ever treated a cat that's gone into remission and she said no

How does this sound? Are there any other questions I should be asking? I am still extremely overwhelmed - there is a lot of great information here and I wish I had hours to read everything but I don't so your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

It sounds like your vet, just like many out there, doesn’t really understand the nuances of feline diabetes. To say that you shouldn’t test the urine for ketones is crazy talk from someone with a veterinary degree. My current vet suggested right away. Does this vet know what ketones are and how dangerous it is if undetected? Testing daily is worth the “strain on the relationship” although none of us have experienced that. Especially when you make the positive association of getting a treat immediately after. Cats get used to it just like they get used to the shots. Frankly, I think the initial dosage is fine but I’m telling you I was told the same thing by a vet I no longer see and I wasted months when Minnie could have been regulated because how can you adjust the dose based on one reading a month in a stressful situation which is to most cats being at the vet? You simply can’t. Please trust us when we say you need to home test or you’ll never get to know how low the insulin takes her and how to increase or decrease. When you wait for behavioral changes, it’s usually too late because cats hide pain and discomfort super well.

Think of it this way, if you became diabetic would you only test yourself once a month?

 

Please know that I wish someone had said to me what I just said to you when Minnie was first diagnosed

 

Agree with Ale. My husband is diabetic and he would NEVER ever shoot insulin BEFORE he pokes his finger. The same goes for cats.

 

Thanks so much. I feel so limited here with the vet choices in this rural area. I had already switched Grandma from one vet who didn't even recognize her diabetes signs which they should have in retrospect. Last year I also had a cat with non-recognition aggression and no vets in the area had ever heard of it. After doing some more reading I'm also concerned about starting with Prozinc as it sounds like Lantus and Levemir have better remission chances, especially when used within six months of initial diagnosis. I feel this pressure to get Grandma started as soon as possible, but now I'm wondering if I should cancel tomorrow's appointment so I can get better educated and prepared and shoot for an appointment early next week. Thoughts?

 

She picked a good insulin, and that is the recommended starting dose, so GREAT.
I disagree about home testing. I test my cat four times a day. She has been diabetic 4 years. She purrs through test and could care less. doesn't bother her a bit. My vet didn't believe me until i showed her a video of me testing and how she truly is not bothered by it. I think vets see cats anxious in their office and think the cat will always react like that. Also at the vet I watched them test her once and they aimed right for the vein and got a huge dot of blood... well no WONDER they think the cat won't like it. You aim for the edge where there's very little feeling. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. Testing has saved her life many times, including this week. Urine strips for glucose aren't helpful in the moment. Getting Ketostix to test ketones is a good idea... Instead I use a blood meter just like a glucose meter if i want to test ketones so I don't have to wait for her to pee. Many, many cats on this board have gone into remission. My own cat was in remission after four months for a year. She came out of remission because of a tumor in her pituitary glad (which is what causes her to need high doses... it's called acromegaly). ANYWAY, take a look at the video and I think you will see that if the cat is pretty chill, testing is no big deal. It literally takes a minute to do.

 

OH, wanted to add... the fancy feast should be ok. Switch to friskies pate and keep the gravy ones in case she's ever too low and you need to steer her numbers up. The neuropathy in the legs will resolve with better blood glucose control and with B 12 meth suppletments.

 

If you would rather use the Lantus, can you ask the current vet to switch?
Would he do that?
Prozinc does have good remission as well. I haven’t used it so can’t really comment about its use.

 

My cat was diagnosed with diabetes Nov 2015. He was put on insulin shots twice a day (can't remember the name). Switched his food from dry to completely wet food. Our vet recommended Fancy Feast flaked or EVO. EVO is no longer available so we do Fancy Feast flaked chicken and tuna. No dry food at all anymore and freeze dried treats. He was on insulin for about 3 months and now his diabetes is completely controlled with his food. He is fed 2 times a day (12 hours apart). Home testing was tough and I could never get it right. As a treat for his insulin shot, we boiled chicken and gave him that as a treat.
It is possible for them to go in remission. Be strict with the food and avoid anything with gravy.
My cat is a healthy 15 year old cat and doing well.

My cat was so nervous at the vet, that his BG levels were higher. We tried to leave him at the vet for a morning so that they could do the blood curve (since I couldn't get it right) and they called me after a couple of hours and said his is too nervous to eat and they couldn't do it.

 

My cats would never eat twice a day only. They’re grazers and would not have any of that

 

Trust people here and you will be fine. You can still to the vet to check Grandma's body condition, you do not need to believe all the advices of the vet. Probably they are not well trained in taking care of diabetic cat

I think it is very thoughtful that your vet do not want to stress the cat, however it is absolutely possible to home test without stressing the cats
My diabetic cats did not like home testing initially, but quickly they got used to it and it does not stress them. (Sometime they just fall asleep when i try to poke their ear)

With your love (and treats), your cat may feel you are doing good for him and no longer resist. At least thats my case.

Also, my cat PenPen is very near to remission,

 

My cats were used to having dry food left out for them but they did adjust to the routine after some time. Believe me, they let us know about an hour before it is time to eat that they are hungry. We filled in with boiled chicken and freeze dried treats. You can also try splitting a can of food between them. They usually adjust in time. They have no choice since if there is no food there for them, they can't eat. Glad our cats adjusted and no more insulin.

 

I’m not sure that is the reason for remission. Most members here feed their cats multiple times a day and a lot have gone into remission as well I’m half your cats adjusted but most wont because they’re not like dogs who do fine on 2 meals a day only.

 

I have to agree with Ale. I took Troubles dry away and he was OTJ in a couple of months. (course thats all he had his whole life and dog kibble at that) can food turned out to be a treat for him.

ALWAYS REMEMBER when completely removing dry food, the testing HAS to ramp up. Removal of dry can plummet blood glucose to dangerous levels.

 

I picked up the insulin and syringes for Grandma today and I'm a bit nervous to get started. I can start tonight around 8p but since she's an outdoor cat I won't be able to observe. Would it be better to start in the morning so I can check up on her during the day? It's one unit Prozinc to start.

 

A total outside kitty? Hmmm I'd wait till morning. I hope others chime in

 

Yep definitely wait until morning when you can monitor.

 

Yes agreed I’d wait till you can watch her tomorrow

 

I agree that the food was not the reason for remission. He was getting insulin shots twice a day and only wet low carb food. Some cats will not adjust but I am glad ours did and no longer need insulin.

 

Definitely wait until morning so that you can watch Grandma. I know that I had to keep adjusting the insulin level for my cat because I did noticed him being too lethargic.

 

Absolutely, congratulations!

 

Started with Grandma's insulin Sunday morning so it's been 48 hours and she's doing well. It feels like she's already started to improve - she would normally only come out to eat and then go right back to bed, and she's been out and about more, and more alert. She even caught a lizard today and promptly ate it, so it's going to be hard to control her calories if she starts actively hunting again but the vet said she's so underweight I shouldn't worry about that too much right now. I haven't home-tested yet, I still need to by a glucometer, but I'd like one that works for humans and cats alike. Any recommendations?

 

I wouldn’t worry either because prey is low carbs Minnie had been know for catch a mouse or two and leave only the head and the tail behind

great that she’s feeling better!!

the best 2 human meters are freestyle and ReliOn. I’ve used both and I’m now on ReliOn only. It’s made by Walmart so the most economical when it comes to the test strips. That’s what makes it expensive, the strips not the actual meter. Anyway, if you have a Walmart near you you can buy the meter, the test strips and lancets there too. Just call first to see if they have it. I think you can order online as well but it will take longer since it has to be shipped. Depending on what state you’re in, I’m told you may need a prescription. Are you in the US? Sorry I forgot...

 

Nancy, can you do us a favor and set up your signature when you have a chance? That way we don’t have to look through the thread to know what insulin, food, meds etc Grandma is on. Thanks!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

 

LOL Lizards 0 carbs My Zoe collects lizards. Brings them in to bat around they scamper off under the sofa... She doent eat them just plays with them. It gets rather sketchy here once in a while...especially when she finds a snake.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA