New member with questions

Hi, I've been browsing the web for nearly two weeks (and this website a lot) as my little girl, Sabrina, was diagnosed on February 17th. She's acting all right (although now I suspect there might be a touch of neuropathy as she has a hard time jumping onto the bed and is on her back hocks much of the time-but I'll keep an eye on that before trying that B12 methylcobalamin). But for the life of my vet and I we can't seem to get her blood glucose down and she is all over the place. I haven't tried home testing yet as I wanted to get her more stable.

If it would help here's the levels as of today (I'm in the U.S.):
2/17 440
2/18 436, 330, 92, 276, & 366 (she was staying at the vet)
2/19 182
2/20 461
2/22 243
2/24 409 (first test after coming home)
2/26 317 (on 2/26 & 2/27 she was at the vet's kennel as we were out of town-perhaps the free grazing helped?)
2/27 338
3/1 446
3/3 463 (here I did the big no-no and drastically changed her diet from hi carb/low protein to low carb/hi protein Fancy Feast with just a pinch of kibble, also hi protein/low carb. Thank goodness she came through okay)
3/5 281 (yeah! I was right and the vet wrong on the diet to feed her)
3/6 443 (so much for that theory)
3/8 403

Her insulin has been adjusted from 1.5 to the current 3.5 (she's on Prozinc), I feed her three times a day for a total of one small can of Fancy Feast and perhaps 50 pieces of kibble. Is she eating too much, too little, too often, not often enough? I'm really stuck as to what try next and hate giving her more insulin (is 3.5 a lot? She's only 8 pounds). It is sometimes hard for us to give her her insulin 12 hours apart as the vet tests her Mon, Wed, Fri (with fasting) around 8:00 am and on Tues and Thurs my husband and I leave the house for work by 4:00 am. We do not give her insulin less than 10 hours between shots but it can be 14 hours before her next shot (for example, 4:00 am, 6:00 pm and then at the vet the next day at 8:00 am)

I'm sorry that one of my first posts is so lengthy but I figured the more information you all knew perhaps the more it would help. Thank you all so much in advance.

 

Hi Sabrina's Mom,
I'm sorry Sabrina was diagnosed with FD, but I'm really glad you found us. I know others will be on soon with more specific advice, but I wanted to welcome you. Without home testing to know what Sabrina's blood glucose (bg) is throughout the day, it is really hard to say what is going on. I'm glad you are switching to low carb food, but any kibble is much higher carb. There are lots of links on this site about home testing and with all of your vet visits, it can really save you some money. And the best thing is that you will have more control and you will have a better chance at getting Sabrina regulated or even off insulin.

Hang in there. Others will be on soon.

 

Hi Sabrina's mom:

My Prudence was diagnosed Feb 19th. I am sure people will chime in soon about your situation. The best advice I could give to you right now... read read read every thing you can throughout this site http://felinediabetes.com/index.html

Home testing is a huge key factor in finding the right dosage for Sabrina. Pease understand the importance of switching her diet to low card canned food. You must read this if you haven't already? Very Critical Points http://www.catinfo.org/felinediabetes.htm

I am not trying to scare/alarm you. I am just trying to help you understand the importance of switching the diet. There is aslo a spreadsheet that you can create using this msg board. This was people can help you with any questions. I hope this helps.

 

Welcome! A low carb/high protein diet is important and will change how much insulin your cat needs. To find out how well the insulin is doing, you will need to take several blood glucose readings during the day. I hope more experienced people will be along to explain hometesting and bg curves.

You asked about fancy feast, and I feed that to my kitty too. Not all fancy feast varieties are created equal, some have very low carbs and others are higher. Did you find Janet & Binky's canned food chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm to make comparisons? You don't need to feed any dry kibble. The cans of fancy feast I have recommend to feed the average adult cat 1 can per 3.5 pounds per body weight. So your 8 pound cat would probably eat just over 2 cans a day. (Is 8 pounds also Sabrina's ideal weight? If she needs to gain, you might feed more, or if she needs to lose, you might feed a tiny bit less.)

 

Welcome to this great forum and yes like the above posts say read read and then read some more there is so much information on this site and so many here to help I am still struggling with the regulation of my boy and I did not home- testing in the beginning and I also agree its so important to learn how to do this I go scared and upset and frustrated in our first 2 weeks of diagnosis back in Nov 09 and gave up on home-testing and really regret it maybe had I persisted my boy would be better now. Here is the link to home-testing and good
luckhttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

 

Sabrina's Mom-

Hello, and welcome. So many of us were overwhelmed when our kitties were first diagnosed. It is a lot to handle at first, but be assured it will get easier.
Have you read and printed the info on hypos? I don't want to scare you, but with a higher dose like 3.5u, its important to have the information:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8038&start=0

Like you, when we were first dx, we weren't hometesting. I wish that we had been because we were giving a high dose like you (reached 3.5u bid) and didn't realize we had missed the optimum dose. Switching her diet to low carb is a great way to help, but without knowing her bg's, you could be giving too much insulin and the result can get scary. Unfortunately, the bg testing at the vet's can be misleading--they often don't eat as well than they would at home, and their levels can be elevated due to the stress of it all.

I know, it is daunting to think of poking those little ears so often, but after a little practice, it becomes easy. I think us humans are more upset about it than the kitties. After a short time, most (if not all) don't seem to mind it. Many will purr during testing, and love the extra attention.

Please consider hometesting--its the best way to help your sugarcat. And keep posting, we were all where you are once, and there are many wonderful and experienced people here to help!

Jen

 

Hi & welcome!!!

Please be sure you can home test if you remove the kibble from her diet, and you may also want to give her a lower dose for a few days til you see how she does without the dry food in her system. I agree she will most likely get better #s without it, but right now it's possible that is the only thing preventing her from hypoing on this dose. It's not a super-high dose, but many cats eating only low-carb canned food only need around 1 or 1.5 units. 3.5u sounds like the kind of dose they might need with dry food in the picture (of course there are many other factors to dosing).

That curve at the vets on 2/18 is really pretty good - I wouldn't want her to go much lower than 92 at the vets.

It would help if you could add a couple bits of information to the #s (if you can put them in a spreadsheet that is ideal - there are instructions over on the Tech forum):

- what hours the tests were at: PS = pre-shot test before insulin given, +4 = four hours after shot, +8 = eight hours after shot, etc.

- how much insulin was given with each shot, so we can see where the dose increases were made (i.e. what dose was she on on 2/18? - since you have gone lower-carb since then, it would be reasonable that the dose she needs now is less than what she was getting then, rather than more insulin, which is what I'm guessing is the case...?)

Is her 8 lbs. a good weight for her (really small cat normally?) or is she underweight? If she is underweight, I would let her free-feed on the LC food, as well as continuing with the same amount of kibble she is currently getting for safety purposes with that dose.

If you can't start home testing right away, can you get a test for her at the vets around 5 or 6 hours after a shot? I'm not sure what the value is of getting any tests from the vets is that are not nadir tests (when the insulin is at it's strongest, and her #s are at their lowest) or full curves. To me, those are the most useful data points if you can only get limited data. I also wouldn't fast her personally, I just don't see the value in that. I know there are fasting tests used for diabetes, but I thought that was just a diagnostic used with people, not used with cats, and not on a regular basis....? I'm not 100% sure on that angle, but it doesn't make sense to me the tests your vet is recommending to you. (don't mean to sound critical, just trying to sort things out & help you get the best data you can!!!)

Just keep asking whatever questions you have! There are lots of people here who can help you master hometesting if you are up for the challenge (it took me a while to get on board with doing that, but it has made things SO much easier I wish I had learned sooner!!!).

 

I know it's overwhelming with all the information, but trust me... it will get easier. I am 11 days in, but starting to see the light. Please try to home test if you can. I've used Janet & Binky's canned food chart and here's what I use. Not saying you have to use this cause every kitty is different, but I've learned through this site that every bit of info/advice has been a huge help :smile:

Friskies

Protein 1st# / Carbs 2nd#

Salmon Dinner 34/6
Mariner's Catch 38/7
Mixed Grill 34/8
Ocean Whitefish and Tuna Dinner 38/6
Tender Cuts Chicken and Salmon Dinner in Gravy 51/9
Liver and Chicken Dinner 34/7
Country Style Dinner 30/7
Chicken and Tuna Dinner 33/6

 

Thank you all for such wonderful advice. Actually on my way home today I stopped off at Rite Aid and after much deliberation bought a home testing kit (the Rite Aid True Result-it takes 0.5 microliters of blood, 4 second results possible, doesn't need coding-whatever that means, and stores 500 results). I know I'm going to read, reread, reread, and read again all of the instructions on how to do it at home before actually poking Sabrina, so hopefully within the week I'll be on my way to seeing better results.

Thank you Michelle & Donna & Buddhafor the Friskies suggestion as I always have that brand on hand for my other kids. I went with the Fancy Feast after perusing this web and the Janet & Binky site.

Joanna and Bix thank you for the suggestions, I thought I had enough information in my little chart I've got going but will add the times. I can say that on 2/24, 3/1, 3/3, 3/5, 3/6, & 3/8 she was tested at about 7:30 a.m. after abpout a twelve hour fast and last dose of insulin, she was then brought home, fed, and within the half hour given insulin (we usually waited until the vet called us to let us know what dose to give her as he came in later). I believe on 2/17-2/24 she was at 2.5 units of insulin, 2/26-3/6 at 3.0, and as of 3/6 she's at 3.5

I agree that although I love my vet and have been going there for years some of what he suggested (like hi carb/low protein diet) seemed odd to me after researching and that her dose of 3.5 definitely seems too high. I'm so glad that you warned me about the kibble as I won't take her off of it just yet (not until I start home testing). I was just using it as a transition phase. And yes, she is a very petite cat. Her weight seems about right to me now although she is still a little thin feeling around the spine and hips but still has that tummy but she is equalling out more than a few weeks ago.

And thank you to the rest of you have given me suggestions. I am very admittedly overwhelmed right now but I will check out all the website links you suggested and try the hometesting and see if all starts to make sense.

 

Just remember to breathe :YMHUG: It will all work out. I just wanted to mention that I did try the FF wet food, but Prudence didn't care for it after a few days. She's also the same weight as Sabrina. I found myself getting emotional every time I picked her up and could feel her spine etc. I know she can feel my emotions just like any animal can pick up these vibes, so what help me... was to clear my mind before I approached her and tried to keep positive thoughts.. talking to her and explaining to her that we're going to figure this all out cat_pet_icon

Just know that you are in my thoughts. Sending you good vibes.

 

Thanks Michelle for the good vibes. I'm off today so figured it was the best day to start doing a curve. Started at 4:00 am as that's what we and the vet decided was best (my husband politely told the vet's staff that the 8:00 am testing wasn't working out when he took her in yesterday- :lol: ). No problem at 4:00 am getting blood and she was at 240 before breakfast and insulin. Went back to bed and didn't wake up until after 8-oops. Jabbed and poked for 10 minutes before finally giving up in frustration-I either couldn't get enough blood or kept getting error messages on the meter. Tried again at 10 as that should be her nadir (right?). More frustration on both our parts, more errors, wasted tasted strips, I gave myself a headache and started crying but did finally get a reading of 142. I know it will get easier but it's so (curse word of choice) frustrating right now. Thanks again for the shoulders to cry on. I need some more coffee...

 

Testing at first is frustrating, but you and your cat will get better at it. It's ok to stop and take a breath and relax and try again after 10 or 15 minutes.

Warm ears bleed more freely. Pet and scritch and hold her on your lap. Make it a positive experience for Sabrina and she'll cooperate with you.

You'll also get to know how big a bead of blood your meter will need. It's really not that much, but it has to be enough or the test won't work.

It is very frustrating at first, but you know it's important and you stuck with it. That's a victory.

It gets easier.

 

Have you made a spreadsheet yet? pc_work Go to board index, then tech support board, then this topic: Creating spreadsheets & attaching them to your signature

Just thought I'd mention what worked for me for BG testing. I sit in a chair with my legs crossed indian style. I put Prudence in my lap and give her some love cat_pet_icon I tried the warm sock, but what worked for me was to wash may hands under warm/hot water, so when I rubbed her ear.. I don't know, I think it helps the blood flow. I take a small piece of paper towel and fold it and place on the inside of ear along the section I will be doing the test. I test on the fur side of the ear. I also do this at my desk. This way I have everything I need in reach. I use the ReilOn Micro meter since it only needs 0.3 of blood. I just keep talking to her as I doing everything. She also likes it when I pick up her while she's in her cat bed and place in my lap while taking her BG.

My friend Kira's cat Max was dx 1/24/10. She was able to go OTJ a few weeks later. I know every cat is different, but being new to this and reading everything about what to do etc. I did not follow her suggestion at first. I was caught up with the feeding situation and wondering if I was starving my poor baby by only feeding 2x day, so I fed throughout the day (which works for some furrbabies) but my numbers where all over the place. I am now trying the 2x day amps & pmps, which sucks cause I almost gave in tonight.... so glad I didn't. I was happy with my numbers :smile:

This is what Kira sent me:

The reason for only feeding 2x a day is so you can see how the insulin and food are working together. If your cat eats more than 2x a day, you won't know if her bg changed because of extra food or too little insulin or too much insulin, and you really have to know why in order to make dosing decisions. The cats will cry and you'll feel like a total b**ch, but you have to know what the insulin is doing, and this is the only way to find that out. I can't stress enough how important it is to be consistent. If you're changing things randomly, you'll never be able to figure out why you got a good result or a bad result.

Hope this helps. :YMHUG: