New member with sick kitties

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by MamaJen, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    I'm so glad I found this! My brain hurts trying to absorb the past two weeks of information and misinformation gathering. I have 3 kitties. 1st to be diagnosed diabetic tomtom 14yr hefamump big cat only mildly overweight at 21 lbs (he is NOT a petite framed cat) vet said his sugar was almost 800 and showing ketones but didnt really explain. Prozinc 2units every 12 hrs. And swap food to hills multi benefit WD (dry) less than 5 days I realize it's for sure not just him drinking water like a camel and going through litter like mad. Round 2 Newnie.. hes like 6. Long previous history of urinary blockage so bad he had to be castrated to save his life. He too gets 2units 2xs a day his sugar was 400's no ketones. So trying to find food that is safe for them both is a chore. So far I'm now having to give Tomtom medication for diarrhea even though I'm only slowing swapping in the new food as per the schedule set By hills when I called them because their feeding chart only goes to 18lbs ( did I mention Toms a hefalump?) So it's looking like yet again prescription diet is failing us. Same as prescription urinary did. It took me months to stop the crystal issues and I'm terrified of a repeat. Sorry this is long. Anyhow.. point me please where i might explode my head some more on diet i know i have to swap to wet for their health .. it just seaming like mission impossible to find diabetic AND no crystal forming issues food. (Oh and mamow is Tomtoms sister so far so good on her no health issues yay) thanks in advance. I tried calling a few food companies but yeah the ol speak with your vet..I did.. that food is high priced cheap grocery store food it seams same junk ingredients so I'm lost.
     
  2. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Hello and welcome to the forum! I'm a newbie as well, my Billy was diagnosed in late December. More experienced members will come in to help, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

    My Bill had major urinary issues earlier in his life. Luckily, he outgrew them, as many fixed male cats do. My vet and our research has shown that cats with urinary issues do better on wet food, and so do diabetic cats, so that will help. There's a great canned cat food list here.

    Not only does it explain some good choices for diabetic kitties, it lists the phosphorous content of each food, something you want as low as possible for urinary health. It would be a good place for you to start. We have members here that have diabetic cats who also have urinary issues. They will be able to give you more specific advice.

    I just wanted to say welcome, you've found a great place for information, and you rock for helping your super cute kitties get on the road to better health!

    Edited to add: I had a lovely hephalump kitty name Pyewacket many years ago. He was a huge boy. Was over weight at 24lbs, but looked great at 18-20. I miss my big boy!
     
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  3. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Thanks! Yeah I've been seeing about the phosphorus now.. previously it was watch out for magnesium content so it's all so confusing!. Newnie did NOT do well on science diet prescription for his urinary and after almost giving up and just letting him go in went to purina one urinary.. sure it's not good cat food but hes had 0 issues til now. I did have to mix in some other food as tomtom would get bad boughts of diarrhea so we found 2/3cup purina one urinary with 1/3 cup rachel ray nutrish inner health did the trick for the last hmm 2or 3 yrs.. til now.. suddenly we had someone drinking ALOT and peeing A LOT.. I took tom as he got observed doing it a the most and that's when the diabetes test results came.. as well as a uti.. and was like great! Then Newnie same one week later.. I think I'll try the fancy feast tonight and see if they tolerate it. I'd live to give them the world but now budgeting 2 on Insulin it's hard to afford the more expensive options.
     
  4. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I am just on the way out, but just wanted to say hi and welcome to you all. Two kitties with diabetes. Wow!

    I would recommend before you try and change over to a low carb wet diet (which is the best thing for them) I would start testing the blood sugars and get that sorted first because switching to a low carb diet can drop the blood sugars 100 points or more and if you are not testing you will not know to adjust the insulin dose.
    With ketones in the picture it is really important he is getting plenty of food and water and his insulin dose. So testing is the one thing you can do to keep both kitties safe.
    A human glucose meter is fine and cheaper to run. Walmart have the ReliOn brand which is reliable.
    I am going to tag @MrWorfMen's Mom as she uses Prozinc insulin and she will be able to help you.
    Sorry I have to rush off.... again welcome!
     
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  5. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Bron and Sheba is 100% right. My Billy was eating a dry food that was 20% carbs and some wet food everyday, and when we switched him (not all at once) to low carb wet, his BGL numbers were all over the place until it settled in. If we hadn't been home testing, we wouldn't have caught his one plummet to 52, and given him his insulin at that level, which would have been dangerous.

    Home testing is not as difficult as it may seem. There's a lot of advice on this forum for how to test, when to test, and what to test with. You can start reading through it right now, while you wait for more specific advice. I suggest you start here, and then look over the information in the Health Links section.
     
  6. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Oh boy ok I'll have to see about a meter tomorrow.. I just finished the bag of dry prescription I was swapping too but having tomtom have such severe diarrhea from it I had to help him so we just fed them their 1st can of fancy feast.. so far tom walked away after a few bites so I dont know.. hes a grazer .. which was why we never really did wet food because it would get dried out. I'm wondering about the feeding about holy cow.. with a 20 pound cat that's a lot.. going to be a pain and I'll have to babysit the food and pick it up when one walks away or Newnie will eat everyones!
     
  7. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Until you get the meter and start testing, do you have any of the old food you were feeding before diagnosis? That would be high carb but would be better to stay with that until you can test.

    Also with ketones in the picture with Tomtom it is really important he eats plenty of food.
    Do you have any Ketostix at home to test the urine for ketones? If not I would also buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or pharmacy tomorrow. The urine needs testing daily while there are ketones in the picture.
    When you buy a glucose meter, have a look at the ReliOn one at Walmart. You will also need some lancets to prick the ear with.. get 26 or 28 gauge. Also a device to hold the lancets ( the meter may come with the device but check). Also some cotton wool swabs to put behind the ear to support it while you test it.
    And some chocolate for you.
    You will need some treats to gibe the cats when you test the blood. Low carb treats.

    here is a link to how to home test. We can help you more if needed. Don’t expect to be successful every time in the beginning. Both you and the cats need time to get used to the new routine.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
     
  8. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    I am REALLY not happy with my vet right now. All I got was a vial of the prozinc a box of red cap syringes told 2 units every 12 hrs and swap to the hills.. oh and hey we'll retest in a month. Would I really be trying to give my crazy once feral kitty shots if I didnt want.to save him?! Why are they risking his life like this?!!!!
     
  9. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Unfortunately most vets do not get much feline diabetic training. I am so glad you have found us.
    Keep asking any questions you might have. We are very happy to help in any way we can
     
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  10. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
  11. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Hello and welcome from me too. Seems one kitty didn't want the other get all the attention. :rolleyes: My second kitty got his idiopathic cystitis diagnosis a week after Neko got her diabetes one. I too had a diet issue. Urinary food was way to high in carbs. Diabetic kitty would eat anything and pushed the other kitty away from his food. Low carb and low phosphorus food to the rescue. Vet actually suggested raw food, which I switched to, but there are canned foods that work too. More on a site from Dr Lisa Pierson, a nutritionist vet. Here's what she says on diets for urinary issues.

    Like Bron said, wait until you are home testing first, as changing diet can make a HUGE difference in amount of insulin needed.
     
  12. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I understand. Our vet did very much the exact same thing. Hill's dry food (that I refused to feed my cat) here's some insulin and syringes, and we'll talk in a month. Now, I love our vet, he's been very good to us, and is knowledgeable about many things. But it's clear he doesn't know enough about feline diabetes. Heck, many people doctors don't know enough about diabetes! I'm hoping that when our vet sees how well Billy is doing, I can use it as a teaching moment to help our vet better understand the options. But I admit I was mad at our vet for a hot minute.
     
  13. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Ok looking at walmart.com before I go trying to see what Meters my store has in stock and I dont see the exact ones listed as preferred on the forumn HALP! what am I looking for in a meter. They have like 8 different ones in stock and I'm lost.
     
  14. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2020
    This is what they show in stock.
    ReliOn Premier Classic Blood Glucose Monitoring System


    CONTOUR NEXT ONE Blood Glucose Monitoring System Value Pack

    ReliOn Premier VOICE Blood Glucose Monitoring System

    ReliOn Premier Compact Blood Glucose Monitoring Kit

    Contour Next EZ Blood Glucose Monitor Model, 7252

    ReliOn Prime Blood Glucose Monitoring System, Red
     
  15. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I'm a newbie, so grain of salt and all that. I've noticed several of the members here use the ReliOn Premier Classic. I personally am using the ReliOn Blue, because that's what I already had when my boy was diagnosed, and it's been working great. In general, the ReliOn meters seem a popular choice due to the low cost of test strips.
     
  16. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Castration is when the testes are removed. That has nothing to do with urinary blockages. I think your cat had a Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) https://www.dvm360.com/view/how-perform-feline-perineal-urethrostomy My Lightening got repeated blackages and had to have the PU surgery twice. The second surgery resolved the problem but I continued to feed Hills CD just in case.
     
  17. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Umm shoot it's been a few yrs.. its basically he was a boy.. now as far as urinating hes a girl..?
     
  18. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Well had to drop Newnie off to vet found him wedged next to cat box acting not right.. vet just called and said he was very dehydrated. His sugar was 428 and I got fussed for the fancy feast even though I told him I was using the classic recipe even explained it was higher protein lower carb.. I have a feeling hes going to be difficult....ugh
     
  19. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Ok back from vet, showed vet the food chart and he was still resistant on the fancy feast but upon looking at what food they pushed they ONLY had dry prescription cat.. so I think I'll try on the fancy .. I gave myself a migraine trying to figure all this out so I'll send hubby to walmart for the meter tonight.
     
  20. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Vet said to feed on schedule 1 hr before shots which I have been doing 9:30am/pm..but only feeding 2xs a day seams rough.. I'm getting begging and stink eye as they have previously free fed dry food..
     
  21. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    I share your worry. My vet is already saying we have to do a curve at the vet's office if we don't use a pet meter, and I haven't even told him about the diet change yet and the fact we are not feeding the dry Hill's he recommended. I intend to stand my ground firmly, and if we have to get a pet meter and more expensive strips just for when we do a curve for the vet, then that's what we'll do. And if we end up having to take Bill to a new vet, that's what we'll do too, but I have big hopes the vet will work with us when he see's Billy's progress.
     
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  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    2 kitties with diabetes, diagnosed around the same time! You must be reeling with that hitting you in the face all at once.

    Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release,................................... Yoga, mediation, chocolates for you.

    Would you help us to help you better? Set up some info in your signature would be so much help. Thanks.
    New? How You Can Help Us Help You!
     
  23. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    From the Beginner's Guide to Prozinc

    • The proper sequence for dosing insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter.
    Yes, do feed your cat a good sized meal before you give the shot, but it does not have to be an hour before. It is important to see if your cat will eat before giving insulin.

    You can feed snacks, especially during the first half of the cycle. In fact, it is better for the cat to give the snacks to help counter steep drops due to insulin. Twelve hour feedings is old school. The only thing asked is that you pick up any food in the two hours before the next shot is due. By doing this, you know that the test number at shot time is not food/carb influenced and to ensure the cat is hungry enough to eat.
     
  24. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    It will help with the dehydration to add water to the wet food. Make it soupy.
     
  25. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    I originally looked at these tiny fancy feast cans and thought no way this is enough food then saw it's a can per xlbs.. well mine arent eating the whole can.. seams this is going to be a battle..I dont know if adding water will make it worse. I have a cait drinking fountain they all use regularly water intake hasn't been a problem. For Newnie his keeping it in has been still.. he drinks and pees all day! Hoping new food will help get his numbers down so he wont pee all his fluids away. As usual hes going to be the difficult one. His blood test was almost half of tomtoms and tom is doing great no excessive thirst and urination now.
     
  26. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    I thought I filled out the signature already I'll go look again.. just took a break from battening down the hatches we have a big storm coming.
     
  27. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Ok is signature working now?
     
  28. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Also we need to go run and get the meter ... which of the above mentioned in stock would be best?
     
  29. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Any of the Relion Premier meters are good. Get plenty of test strips, at least 100. Be sure to pick up lancets, ketone test strips too if you don't already have them.

    Signature is there now. You might not have scrolled down and hit SAVE.
     
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  30. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    @Juls and Billy just tell the vet your kitty refuses to eat the Hills dry. They can’t argue with that and you should get your money back.
     
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  31. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Excellent advice! I'll totally do it.
     
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  32. MamaJen

    MamaJen Member

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    Jan 9, 2020
    Fyi finaly got a response from blue buffalo..
    Thank you for taking the time to contact us. All of our non-therapeutic diets sold through pet retailers are maintenance diets, and are not intended to be fed to animals seeking specific nutrition for a medical condition that may be supported with nutritional therapy.

    Our BLUE Carnviora Woodland Blend canned cat recipe has 12% protein as fed and 0.85% carbohydrates as fed. The magnesium is 0.024% as fed.

    Carnivora Woodland canned cat recipe

    For animals with specific medical conditions that can be managed through nutritional therapy, Blue Buffalo does offer Natural Veterinary Diet formulas. These formulas are available with a prescription from your veterinarian. We recommend speaking with your veterinarian, as he or she should be able to direct you to a product that is best suited for your pet should they have specific medical conditions that may benefit from nutritional therapy.

    Oddly that particular B.B.was not on the list..
    Also no way in heck I'm going to get Tomtom to eat suggest serving for his weight in fancy feast...
     
  33. Panic

    Panic Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Hey there. Any of those meters will do, I use the Prime myself. Just check test strip prices, you will be buying them often so go for the cheapest ones.

    Concerning your vet... take a deep breath. Most vets mean well but feline diabetes is not a big focus in vet school so they don't have much updated knowledge on it. Print out the catinfo.org nutrition chart if you like and show it to your vet, insist that the dry is not appropriate. If they are open-minded they will fact-check this. My own vet initially refused to allow me to use Fancy Feast until I showed her the chart and she made some calls and admitted she was wrong. Your vet may not do this, and you may have to go to someone else, but remember. These are your cats. Your vet can't force you to feed them what you don't want.

    I wish I could help more on Newnie's diet. I previously did research for a friend of mine who's cat had similar problems. A few years ago, people here were feeding Friskies Special Diet, it was the perfect combo for diabetic cats that needed low phosphorus. It's since been discontinued and I think now owners use brands such as Wevura or Wellness. Or raw as Wendy mentioned.
     
  34. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi I use the Relion Prime , the test strips are really cheap
     

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