New member

New member here. Taz just diagnosed with diabetes. Prescribed Lantus $190 at walmart here in phoenix..I'm still choking on that one after the $300 vet bill... Who has the best prices on the insulin? Any help my wallet would be gratefull!

Thanks

 

Welcome to the FDMB Dan and extra sweet Taz!

If you've already bought the vial, just keep it in the refrigerator and treat it like nitro-glycerin! The pharmacists will tell you it's only good for 28 days, but we have people using it up to 6 months. Put it on an interior shelf, not the door

If you haven't bought it yet, ask your vet to write the prescription for the Lantus Solostar Pen. Each pen holds 3ml and they come in a box of 5, but Target stores seem willing to split open a box and sell one at a time.

There's also a savings card from Lantus on the Solostar. When you sign up, you either have to be 18, or be the caretaker of a child (like a furkid) They don't give the card to cats :evil:

Here's the link to sign up Lantus Savings Card

Are you going to home test Taz? It's really important that you learn how and do this to keep him safe and learn how he responds to insulin and food. You can get a human glucometer from WalMart for about $15 (Relion Prime or Confirm) and the strips are either $9 for 50 (Prime) or about $36 for 50 of the Confirm.

What kind of food are you feeding Taz? If you change him over to wet foods under 10% carbs, it will make a big difference in his blood glucose readings. We've had quite a few cats who didn't need insulin at all after switching to low carb foods.(but if you're feeding dry or high carb food now AND giving insulin, this needs to be a slow adjustment)

We're all here to help, so let us know what we can do to help you with this new adventure.

 

Thanks so much for replying!!! We just started treatment yesterday. Bought the vial@ $190 :shock: Thanks for the info on the pen signed up for the savings card too. The vet didn't say anything about testing so thanks for that info. They sold us a few Purina DM canned food to start. Do I need to keep buying this or can i find low carb canned food at the local stores?
Thanks again for your help my wife and I greatly appreciate it!

 

Most of us here feed low carb canned foods from vet Dr. Lisa Pierson's food chart. Look in the 3rd column of numbers for foods that are under 10% carbs. Those are best for diabetic kitties. My sugarkitty Wink got OTJ (off-the-juice, insulin being the juice) and is now a diet controlled diabetic after being switched to a low carb canned food diet.

I feed Fancy Feast classic pates, Friskies pates ( not Mixed Grill), and some Special Kitty. These are much less expensive than the prescription diets at the vet and the great thing is they come in lots of different flavors to tempt your finicky kitty to eat. Better ingredients than the prescription food too. Some people also like the low cost option of Wellness cat food.

Vets often don't talk about testing. Maybe they are afraid the owners will want to euthanize the cat instead.

Relion Confirm or Micro at Wal-Mart are inexpensive meters and use a small 0.3 microliter blood drop.

We can provide a shopping list of supplies if you like.

 

What dose of lantus are you giving?

Also I would second what deb said about home testing.. It keeps your cat safe, gives you are a more accurate picture of your cats progress and saves money on vet visits. Many cats go into remission with a change to a low carb wet and so you can make sure you don't overdose insulin by home testing if this does happen.

Wendy

 

Onnce you are home testing, the following may be helpful:

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first (mg/dL). Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters (mmol/L). Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

 

They started him on 1ml then increased it to 2ml today because the test today was higher..They want him back tomorrow for another test.I ask the vet on the phone can i test at home she says oh yeah you can..Well geee thanks! Thanks for info on the food that help alot bought a bunch of the fancy feast( the other cats are happy too ).. Thanks for all the info so far have alot of digesting to do..

Dan

 

You can save a lot of money by testing at home...and when they are tested at the vets, they're stressed and their numbers go up, so it's not a true result.

I'd be very worried about how fast your vet is increasing. Lantus is a "depot" insulin and it takes 3-5 days to "fill" the depot. We suggest increases of only .25 unit and only after testing has shown they need it.

If you're switching to the low carb foods, I strongly urge you to go ahead and start home testing as soon as possible! You don't want to end up in an emergency situation because Taz went hypoglycemic! Hypo's can cause permanent brain damage, blindness and death, so they're not to be trifled with.

If you haven't already done it, you might also want to go ahead and get a Hypo kit ready, so if he does start to show signs, you can treat him immediately. A few minutes can mean the difference between a scary episode, and a deadly one.

You might want to print this out and have it just in case! How to handle a hypo

You should also get a hypo kit ready. Things you'll need are extra test strips, high carb food (like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers...the gravy is High Carb), and honey, Karo or syrup.

I hope you'll go ahead and start testing at home. It's truly the only way you can keep Taz safe, as well as giving him his best possible chance of getting off the insulin completely.

We'll all be happy to help any way we can. Testing sounds difficult, but it really isn't, and most of our cats quickly learn where their "testing spot" is, and will come to it when called...and sometimes they even remind US it's time to test

 

I just bout the relion confirm.. Help please no idea what i am doing!! Where do prick him?

 

Along the upper 3rd of his ear is the "sweet spot" ....you're looking for this:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/download/file.php?id=10324&mode=view

Here's some other good information on the Psychology of Ear Testing
https://sites.google.com/site/michelang ... psychology

I learned a lot of how I learned from watching videos on You Tube...Just Google "How do you test a diabetic cat"? Should bring up several videos for you to watch.

Before your first attempt,gather all the things you'll need...lancet, warm rice sock or pill bottle with warm water, cotton to swab and your lancet or lancet device ready , your meter and test strips, and put them where you can get them. Then take Taz to wherever you've chosen in your home to test...a counter, a certain pillow on the floor, cat bed, wherever is convenient for you both. Rub his ears and pet him. Have a sock with a little rice inside that you've microwaved to warm (test on your own forearm like you would a baby bottle for temperature). Most cats enjoy the heat, and it also brings blood into the ears to it makes it easier. The other thing that worked for me was to use a small pill bottle full of hot water....not too hot, and I'd press it against her ear for a minute and then poke. After each try, whether successful or not, give a yummy yummy treat. Getting them to realize they're going to get that yummy treat usually convinces them it might be work it....freeze dried chicken works for some, I boil chicken and then cut it up into bite size pieces for testing treats.

After 3 tries, leave it for now and try again later, but always treat the cat!! You can do this!! We all have and a lot of us thought it'd be impossible or our cats would hate us forever....instead, we've grown even closer to our sugarcats during this special time we have with them

 

I did it I did it!!! Thank you so much for the late night help!!!!

 

Congratulations!!! Welcome to the Vampire Club!!!

Next thing you're going to want to do is get your spreadsheet set up so you have an easy way to record your BG numbers, as well as instead of trying to explain to us every little thing, we'll be able to look at it too

Here's How to get a spreadsheet

you're a natural!!

 

Welcome to the vampire club!



You're doing great Dan! And, you're getting some wonderful suggestions from Chris & China.

 

I assume you mean 1unit and not 1ml? 1ml is a full syringe !!!! - 1 unit is a very small amount in the syringe - the first or second mark on the syringe depending on whether your syringes have half unit markings or not.

What reading did you get?

Wendy

 

Welcome, Dan. You will get great help and support here. Ozy was diagnosed in early July so I am still relatively new at this myself. Ozy isn't regulated yet but his health is already greatly improved. And I am much more comfortable with testing, shooting, handling low numbers.

The spread sheet is a really great tool and much better than the one I came up with myself. I gave the vet a link to the spread sheet so she can check on his numbers whenever she wants.

Sounds like you are off to a great start.

donaleen

 

Welcome Dan! I too am new to this game.

My vet was really of no help and just kept asking me to come in for more curves (which meant more $), I have to credit the people here for all the great information and support.

I have found everyone here very helpful. I was able to start home testing and charting and it really has helped me get a handle on things with him.

I would suggest looking at a different food. The food charts are overwhelming at first, but I truly think taking the time to look into the food was a huge help for us. We were on the Hills MD (or DM, keep getting that mixed up) and George did not like it at all. Refused to eat it and kept losing weight and his blood sugar was still pretty high. He is doing so much better after we got him off the prescription food and on to Wellness Grain Free Canned.

If I can do, you can too! Good luck! :mrgreen:

 

Update... Sorry been busy getting ready for a trip with my wife.. Having to show my 20 year old step how to do the injection and glucose test..@wendy&tiggy thanks for the clarification on the syringes yes its 2units twice a day now.
Taz is doing well he was cringingly high at 437 when we 1st brought him in. Have him down to 230 as of this afternoon. He is doin better not drinking as much but still a bit weak but improving..Thanks for everyones help to get me going you guys are the best!!!

dan

 

hope your step son/daughter can continue to report back here so we can help hold his/her hand while you're gone!! Want to make sure Taz is either AS good or Better when you return!!

Will they be keeping your spreadsheet preparard? If so, that's the best way for us to help you (and them) keep Taz healthy while you're gone

 

Yes I will keep posting while I am gone.. meanwhile taz is at 182 this morning..

 

Taz is coming down! Did you give him his shot?

 

We decided to medical board him. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay less stressfull for everyone! I will check back here in 9 days on his condition..

 

Have fun on your trip and keep us posted on Taz.

 

Back from trip Taz is doing well. His reading started to go below 100 so the vet said to lower dose to 1 unit twice day and test every 2 hours cuz she wanted a glucose curve for him. She wants a range of 100-200 for him.. He was pretty stable yesterday but spiked to 400 late in the day. My question is how much does food increase his blood sugar? Should i be giving him snacks through day instead one meal a day to keep him more stable?

thanks

 

Welcome back Dan and Taz!! Hope you had a great time on your trip!!

If you're feeding the low carb foods on the list, food shouldn't have a huge impact on the numbers, but yes, food can influence them. Lots of us give multiple meals throughout the day. You can add a little water to the food if you need to leave it out to keep it from drying out, use an automatic feeder, or if you're home, feed several smaller meals.

"Normal" ranges we consider controlled are 50-130. 200 isn't a "controlled" number, but we've seen vets telling a LOT of our members that 150-200 is fine...it really isn't, but it seems to be what they all say, probably because they don't know about or don't approve of home testing. We strongly advocate home testing so you can keep Taz safe as well as fine tuning the dose of insulin to get the best possible outcome.

The 400 you saw was probably a "bounce". Bouncing happens when the BG number drops lower than the liver is used to. It "panics" and releases hormones and glucogen to quickly bring the glucose back to where it's "used to". It's entirely possible Taz dropped even lower during one of the other cycles and now you're getting the "bounce". Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear.

If Taz is dropping below 100, he may be dropping below 50..and that can be dangerous. Even 1 unit MAY be too much. Without you home testing and knowing his numbers throughout multiple cycles, there's no way to know. We also do reductions and increases in .25 units...never whole units.

If you're able to home test to do the curve, it'd be great if you could also set up a spreadsheet and keep it updated. We can help you with dosing once you have that done. FDMB Spreadsheet instructions

If you have already been home testing, it'd be great if you could go ahead and either set up the spreadsheet and put the numbers in you've been getting, or if you can even just post them here we may be able to help you more on the dosing.

 

Can you do the spreadsheet like Chris said? I am also wondering if there is bouncing going on or something... Since you are doing a curve anyway its a good way to track results and we can advise more if you share the sheet with us.

Bounces - what are they and is my cat doing them?
When a cat isnt regulated, the blood glucose has probably been high for a while. As the insulin starts to take effect and numbers start to come down, the liver has to learn to adjust to the lower numbers. We call this "liver training school". But before it relearns that low numbers are ok, when the BG drops to a number lower than the liver is accustomed, or if BGs drop low, or if the BG drops suddenly, the liver”panics” and reacts by releasing counterregulatory hormones and glucagon. This drives the BG back up. This is what we call a "bounce". Bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear so we are generally careful about increasing doses during the bounce. Once the bounce clears, then you can see the "real" numbers and determine if the dose needs to go up or down.

Wendy

 

Thanks for all that info the "bouncing" info helped me understand it all better. I am tracking him on my own excel sheet. I tried the one you guys sent me but i couldn't wrap my head around it. I started tracking sauturday. Saturday morning is when the vet said to lower the dosage to 1u..When would you like me to post his numbers?

dan

 

I hate to be pushy but ours would be easier and help us be better able to help you. How about I ask someone to set it up for you and then we can just have you update it? Once its set up we can explain the terminology.. What do you think?

 

Each row is 1 day.
It reads left to right.
You enter the date.
You enter the morning pre-shot test (AMPS).
You enter the units given (U) in the morning.
You enter the evening pre-shot (PMPS).
You enter the units given (U) in the evening.
If there are any notes you want to make, you jot them down (ex stressors, food changes, meter changes, signs of illness, etc).
If you do any tests between the 2 shots, you enter them in the column which reflects the numbers since the shot.
A test 2 hours after the shot goes in the +2 column.
A test 5 hours after the shot goes in the +5 column.
A test 6 hours after the shot goes in the +6 column; the nadir, or lowest glucose level, may be around this time.

 

Not being pushy Wendy. I have a form of dyslexia so it makes it difficult to see and understand it. It all looks like a jumbled mess to me..I will do my best with it..

dan

 

Dan

Would it help to adjust the screen window so you only see the color key and the row in which you are entering data?

 

Ok I think i did it..Its posted i think. can anyone see it?

 

Excellent Dan!!

This will make it easier for us to help you with Taz!!

Did you not give any insulin this morning? You have the 502 AMPS reading, but nothing in the Units column

 

oops yes forgot to add that

 

I can see it!

Looks like there is a lot of bouncing going on here. and given he hits a red when he goes green ( ie aug 8th he went to a green 80 and then bounced to a PMPS of 411) I wonder how low he went last night that he went black this morning. On the 8th he went from 80 to 498 in two hours so he bounced fast.

Do you think you can get a spot check later in the PM cycle?

Wendy

PS also are you testing for ketones?

 

Yes i can check later.. What are ketones? How do i check that?

 

Ketones are generally checked with urine strips that are designed to test for them. (there are some meters that also can test blood for ketones)

Ketostix are available over the counter at pretty much any pharmacy (WalMart about $8)

Anything over a trace is an emergency and calls for a vet check

Ketones and Ketoacidosis

urine catching tips

 

Great job on getting that SS up and running and in your signature.

Would you be willing to add some more data to your signature to help us out?

Your first name, cat's name age and sex, meter used for testing, insulin used, food fed, any complicating medical issues with your cat like CKD or pancreatitis. It sure would help us to help you better.

 

updated signature..

 

Wow are those eyes blue green! What a handsome boy!

 

Tazs numbers seemed stable through last nite and today. No big bouncing like before.

 

Way to go Taz!

 

That would be good if he wasnt so high. You might want to read the protocol as it might be time for a dose increase to 1.25 tomorrow http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

excerpt:

Wendy

 

thanks wendy i didnt know wht to do at this point..thanks again

dan

 

The protocol is based on the nadir. If you dont see a blue or green nadir by end of today, then thats 3 days of yellow nadirs so I would increase 0.25 units. Does that make sense? Read the protocol for more info though.

Wendy

 

I think you're ready for these; note the <40 mg/dL treat as hypo link and print that out too.

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

 

Thanks Wendy you put it in a much simpler for that i can understand.
dan

 

Don't be too surprised if you see a higher number tonight (most likely over 400). It seems whenever Taz drops below 200, he starts his bouncing. I agree with Wendy that he hasn't dipped low enough on the 1u yet that the 1.25u might be a good bet for tonight. It can take a while for the bouncing to stop, sometimes months, so don't get too discouraged. It even still happens with my Michelangelo. ;-)

 

Thanks Kpassa you made my night! I think my expectations were way to high because I didn't know what to expect so thanks. And thank you wendy for help with the dosage and BJM for that info..Thanks everyone!!!

 

Good job on the dose increase! nice to see another green too!

I am thinking now you might want to post on the lantus board.That board has lots of very experienced dosing members on it and is a great sense of community.Since you are now up to speed with testing etc I think they will really be able to advise you better on dosing etc. I post there myself every day or two to get their eyes on my cats.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Here’s how to post:
Every day ( or as often as you can) you open a new thread/post. We call them "condos" (short for condition report, or the home you live in and the cat trees some people have)

Subject line: The subject has the date/cats name and BG readings ie 09/19 Taz AMPS 410 +3 240 + 6 88. You add a ? icon if you have a question. You should update your subject line in the very first post for the day as you get a reading, or whenever you have a question. For your first post put "newbie" also in your subject so everyone can welcome you!

Contents: The contents of your post have a quick update on how your cat is feeling as regards the 5Ps ( peeing. pooing, preening, playing and purring) and any questions and a link to your previous post ie : Today Taz was in a good mood, playing and eating well. But he is peeing a lot and his BG is really high. Should I increase the dose?

There is no rush to post there. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.

But you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.


Wendy

 

Thanks Wendy! Yeah seeing the big bounce now with the higher dose..Taz seems to be doing ok. Always hungry not peeing as much or drinking as much poopin i think so but hard to tell with 3 other cats..Purring yes preening yes.. His hind legs are still a bit weak though he got pretty thin when we brought him in..Maybe another vet visit is in hand? Also not sure how much i should be feeding him. I'll starting looking at the other forum this weekend..

dan

 

If he's losing too much weight too quickly, you might need to up his food intake. You might want to see where he falls on this body condition score chart. You want your cat to be at their ideal weight to help with the diabetes control. Excess weight can cause insulin resistance.

 

BOING! Looks like he is coming down from his bounce today though - lets hope we see more green!

 

Questions....What is with the spikes in the morning and evening just before his injections? Seems like it always jumps right before his injection..Since the increase his numbers seem all over the place where he was more stable on the lower dosage albeit a bit high still.. Suggestions?? Should i post this in the other forum areas that were suggested.

Thanks

Dan

 

He may be one of the cats for whom Lantus lasts a shorter time than 12 hours.

Are you picking up all food at +10 so there's 2 hours without food before you pre-test?

 

Thats what i was wondering that it wasnt lasting long enough.. Didnt know about the 2 hour thing with the food..Thanks for the tip

 

Try the 2 hour food pickup for the next several tests and let us know if that helps. If not, we have lots of ideas!

 

Also I think his nadir currently looks like its at +8 or so. When you see him dropping I would keep testing every hour or two till he starts to go back up - try and see how low he is going.

I would say time for another increase anyway -you could ask that on the other forum.

Wendy

 

Need some help with injections. Taz getting very difficult lately with moving around and flinching. Doesn't like to be held down.. Been missing shots like every other one now stuck myself last night..His numbers are all over the place now.Loosing track of it all.. @-) Still using the syringe though until vial is gone..
The vet taught me to pinch his skin like a tent in inject it into the lower tent spot. This is not working! Where and how does everyone else do it? Tired and overwhelmed at the moment need to take a step back and reset this..

thanks

dan

 

I have a few ideas

1. How about you shoot when he is eating? When his face is in the food he shouldnt notice
2. Ask the vet or do it yourself and shave a few spots on his body so you can see better
3. choose a short needle - what kind are you using? Then pull the skin up by the fur and inject at a shallow angle. With a short needle and shallow angle you dont need to worry so much about a big tent or pinching.
4. Here is a shot placement map - you can vary where you do it: http://www.bd.com/ca/diabetes/english/page.aspx?cat=14501&id=14874
5. More shooting tips: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113


Wendy

 

Thanks Wendy.. Yeah I did try the food thing when we first started treating him but he wont have anything to do with that now.. I forgot about the shaving idea i was going to try that to. Thanks for the tip pages i will look at them..Using Relion syringes 31 gauge 8mm length short needle..
thanks again!

 

Another option for doing testing and shots:

Burrito wrap:
Place towel on floor.
Place cat halfway between the ends.
Wrap each end around the cat, including paws.
Additional restraint may be done by kneeling straddled over the cat and compressing your thighs along the cat's body and slightly sitting over the cat to reduce upward motion.

Test from there.

 

Just to confirm - he is ok with testing but not shooting?

 

Yes mainly just shooting.. I tried a different spot this morning. Shaved a part on his flank. I know i got all in there but i dont think it absorbed well.Numbers sitting in the 300's today. May move back to his scruff and shave a part there to see if it's better. I think the fussing over him is annoying him? He is doing the "i am annoyed with you tail flipping thing lately" cat(2)_steam

 

You might try leaving the syringe out for a few minutes before shooting. I've heard that the fact that it's cold might make it sting a little more. Maybe if you draw it up and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, it'll help

 

Hey there
Hows things going? I am looking forward to another test today - hoping for a green!

I am thinking you might want to post on the lantus board.That board has lots of very experienced dosing members on it and is a great sense of community.Since you are now up to speed with testing etc I think they will really be able to advise you better on dosing etc. I post there myself every day or two to get their eyes on my cats.

There is no rush to post there. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

Here’s how to post:
Every day ( or as often as you can) you open a new thread/post. We call them "condos" (short for condition report, or the home you live in and the cat trees some people have)

Subject line: The subject has the date/cats name and BG readings ie 10/06 Taz AMPS 263 +3 120 . You add a ? icon if you have a question. You should update your subject line in the very first post for the day as you get a reading, or whenever you have a question. For your first post put "newbie" also in your subject so everyone can welcome you!

Contents: The contents of your post have a quick update on how Taz is feeling as regards the 5Ps ( peeing. pooing, preening, playing and purring) and any questions and a link to your previous post ie : Today Taz was in a good mood, playing and eating well. But he is peeing a lot and his BG is really high. Should I increase the dose?


But you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.

Wendy

 

Hello there

had a quick look at your numbers and not sure why you reduced the dose the other day from 2.5 to 2 units?

Also am i seeing right - are you shooting less than every 12 hours? Why is that?

Lantus is not dosed like that. Lantus is a depot insulin which means it rakes 2-3 days to build up and drain in his system. Dosing more than that will just mess up the depot. But I understand your concern on his numbers - the only solution I have for you is to stick more closely to the protocol http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 - and even join that board http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

The protocol has been proven to work, we see it often, and really I just think you havent quite reached his best dose yet.

Wendy

 

I changed it because i wanted to start over was getting confused and overwhelmed..I would panic when i would see a black or red number, then shot him early.. Didnt know it was a depot med. I will stick to the protocol now. Thanks

 

Dan, many of us have been there, too.

Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment.
The first one isn't great, but is survivable. For short periods in many cases. The second one kills quickly.

 

Thanks BJM.. I apologize if my post seemed a bit short,kinda of sleep deprived..Its alot trying to understand the do's and don'ts, good numbers bad numbers when to panic and not panic.. ohmygod_smile Thanks for understanding. Sorry if I sounded snippy Wendy, just tired..

dan

 

I didnt read snippy into that at all. no need to apologise. But keep asking questions here, we can help for sure. Sometimes you need to read up, and ask the same questions a few times before it sinks in.

For now I would hold this dose of 2.25 for at least 3 days starting today (unless he drops under 50). Give it every 12 hours ( give or take 15 mins). and then we can re-evaluate.

Wendy

 

Thanks Wendy.. Will do..Thanks for your help too!

 

Nice to see some blues today. Tonite is cycle 4 of this dose since you start just dosing twice a day right?

Wendy

 

Dosing twice a day yes not sure what you mean by cycle 4..Heres a question.. If its time for his shot but his number is in low 100's should he get it or wait till it comes up?

 

Tonight's shot was the 4th time you'd given the 2.25 dose in a row. When you skip shots, you start counting cycles over. Each day has 2 cycles, an AMPS and a PMPS

Is this just a general question in case it happens some time in the future? Last test I see is your PMPS tonight of 244

But in answer to this question, if you get a PS under 150, you should stall, don't feed, don't shoot and test again in 30 minutes to see if the numbers are coming up. If they're coming up, then you'd want to shoot, but when you shoot low, you always need to have your hypo kit ready, just in case you need it. If you'd like to see a good example of "shooting low to stay low", take a look at China's results today. When she was at 89, I knew she was coming up since her +11 had been 62, so I gave her normal shot. Now she could surf safely all night long, or she could dip too low (she was already at 50 tonight). These are the kinds of situations that the testing is invaluable.

 

It was a both question. His shot was to be at +11 but i thought maybe 170 was to low to shot so i waited an hour and he came up to 244 then did it..so i guess i did ok with that?

 

+11 is 11 hours into the cycle. Each cycle (AM and PM) are 12 hours long, so at +11, you shouldn't be shooting. That being said, it IS a good test to get occasionally. +1, +2,+10, and +11 are called "the forgotten tests" since most people get into the habit of doing just Pre-shot tests, a mid-cycle during the day and a before bed test at night. Those "forgotten" tests are valuable to know just so you learn more about how your cat's curves will usually look like.

This is the perfect case for getting that +11!! By seeing 171 at +11, when PMPS time DID come, he was coming up..to 244...so you would know it was safe to shoot.

IF he'd been 171 at +11 and then at PMPS he had dropped lower, you'd want to stall, don't feed, don't shoot, and retest in 30 minutes. You want the number to be rising (without the influence of food)

Other than just the error in your times, you did the EXACT right thing!! Taz was coming up at PMPS so you shot/fed!

Remember, no food for 2 hours prior to your Pre-shot tests, and if you get a number you're concerned about shooting, stall, don't feed, don't shoot, and retest in 30 minutes. If you can, you might want to use that 30 minutes to post here and get someone to help you decide when to shoot

 

The +11 is actually the 12th hour for me.. Having a learning disability i've had to figure out a way to use the spreadsheet that lets me undestand it. i keep the hours in my head. when i put stuff down on paper i cant see it just looks all jumbled at times..So this probably confuses everyone making it harder for you to help me i know sorry bout that...i'll try to put the hours in the note section so you guys can see when i actually shoot him..i test him about every 2-3 hours. sorry if my sheet looks confusing...

 

OK...well maybe this will help (and if it doesn't, yes, putting it in the Remarks is a good way to help)

If your shot times are going to be 8am and 8pm, those are the AMPS and PMPS times. You want to test/shoot/feed all at once within about 15 minutes.

if you get a test at 10am, that's +2 (8am+2 hours=10am)

If you get a test at 3pm, that's +7 (8am+7 hours=3pm)

If you test at 6pm, that's +10 (8am+10 hours=6pm)

Does that help any? If it doesn't, please just continue keeping notes in your Remarks section, but your Pre-shot tests should always be 12 hours apart, so if you shoot at 8am, you don't want to shoot again until 8pm...and it's always important for you to test right before you shoot.

 

If you need to renumber the columns, go ahead.

But the 12th hour is the next pre-shot and also the 0th hour for the next cycle.

 

I did. Didnt know you could.. thanks

 

Nice to see some greens today. Maybe he likes this dose. I wonder how high he will bounce now!

 

Ssssssshhhhhhhhhh dont jinx it ........had to say bounce didnt you!!!

 

Couple of things Dan

Remember, since you had an emergency vet trip that pushed the PMPS shot back an hour (to 10:50pm) the AMPS shot should have been given no sooner than 10:35am (you can adjust back 15 minutes per cycle or one 30 minute adjustment per day until you get back on the schedule you want)

By giving it earlier than 12 hours apart, it acts like an increase in the dose, so between giving it early, and then not being sure about your dosing and re-doing the shot, there's just no way to know for sure what might have happened (I'm also assuming that you meant that when Taz was fidgety, you're SURE you didn't get any insulin into him and re-measured the shot and then gave it....IF there's any chance any insulin gets into Taz, you never want to try to "make up" what you think they missed)

Don't use dry food to bring up numbers, and you only want to worry if the number drops below 50. I KNOW it's scary those first few times you see numbers in the 60's, but don't panic! Those are good, pancreas healing numbers! We WANT them to spend as much time between 50-130 as possible

Dry takes too long to break down and get into the bloodstream to use when they go too low, and then it can take quite a long time to clear the body, so not only will it not bring them up quickly, once it does "kick in", it'll hang around too long.

If Taz does drop below 50, you should have some gravy type foods (Like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers--they're high carb) in the house and you'd just want to give him a couple teaspoons of the "gravy" part (most cats LOVE it) and then retest in 20-30 minutes. Depending on where it is in the cycle, you could give 1 teaspoon of his regular LC food and a couple teaspoons of "gravy", but you don't want to feed him too much in case you need to continue to get him to eat later. You can use a couple of drops of Karo or syrup mixed in with a teaspoon of regular LC food INSTEAD of the gravy, but with those simple sugars, they bring the number up quickly, but also leave just as fast. The gravies are the best choice.

You're doing good Dan...remember, we're always here, so if you have a question or think Taz might be in any danger, start a new post and add the 911 icon...it will get eyes on your post quickly to help you through those first scary times...and don't forget to print out the How to handle low numbers sticky so just in case it takes a little while for someone to get online and help you, you still have that information to guide you.

 

Yeah its been one panic filled weekend ! I'm sure i messed up everything with taz. Finally got some sleep last night so try to get back on course today.. Didn't know about the 911 icon i see it now thanks. Thanks for the reassurance I needed that after yesterday ..

 

Yeah it sounds like you had a real stressful few days. Hopefully the good night's sleep will recharge your batteries for the next thrilling installment :lol:

Just an idea...you might want to move over to the Lantus board now that you're not so new. It just easier for you to not get so lost in the posts, but of course you are free to continue posting on the Health board. We'll help you no matter where you post!

Over on the Lantus board, we generally post once per day (each post is called a "condo"). You'd put the date, Taz, AMPS # and then as you get tests during the cycles, you just go back and "edit" your condo subject line and add those results.

For example, yours could look like this if you'd done one on 10/17....10/17 Taz AMPS 282,+3 305,+6 213,+9 338,+11 321...then if you run out of room, when you get to the PMPS cycle, you just delete the AM numbers from the subject line and continue on.

I know you have some problems with using the + system, so it would be fine if you needed to use the times you got the tests in...whatever works for you!

In the "body" of the post, we like to get the WCR (Whole Cat Report)...how's Taz feeling? Is his appetite good? Are the 5 "P's" in place? (Purring, playing, preening, peeing and pooping).....whatever little details you'd like to add are great!

If you have a question that day, you'd add the ? icon in that first post (that's the only one it shows up on for us when we're scanning and looking for people with questions) and as soon as possible, someone will try to help answer it.

We're quite an active family in Lantus Land, and would love to have you join us if you'd like to!!

 

Hows things going? Numbers don't look too bad although you did miss an earned dose decrease. Whenever he goes under 50 you want to drop dose by 0.25 ...

Wendy