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Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by apsyched1, Jun 23, 2013.

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  1. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Hi all. well.. Tuxxie was diagnosed less than 2 weeks ago. He had all the symptoms.. drank a lot of water, urinated a lot, ate a lot, had a dull & unkempt coat w/ dandruff, was heavy & 12 years old.. Yet when we had blood work done 2 years ago, nothing came back. About a month ago, his pretty little nose started getting dry & crusty. I took him in & they gave him a shot. The following week, he was no better. So I took him back for another shot & get some ointment that time. A week later, his nose was the same.. &.. I had noticed he was losing weight. Tux was up to 22 pounds at one time. Recently, he was staying around 18 pounds. I took him back & they did blood & urine testing. He weighed in at 15 pounds. The next day I found out he is diabetic. I was shocked & scared. what did this mean? Was it a death sentence? They said his glucose was over 300. What did that mean? It sounded bad. I tried to listen but my mind was mush. I was scared of the needles.. afraid I would hurt him. Somehow we managed the first week.. 1 unit of lantus twice a day, and w/d science diet. (dry & wet) I took Tux back a week later & his glucose was nearly 450. ?! I cried. I was doing what they said & he was getting worse?! Why not better after a week of insulin & change of diet? Or at least maintain? So now they have me giving him 2 units twice a day. We go back next week to check again. I have not done home monitoring, but think I should. Anyway.. I am glad I found you all.. I have started to read through & see that there is so much I need to learn. I just hope I can keep my boy healthy & happy. Oh.. Tuxxie was a stray I started feeding about 10 years ago. He brought along a little scrawny friend, & I started feeding her, too. Well.. she was pregnant. So I adopted Tuxxie & Cheyenne, & their 3 kitties (Sunshine, Sasquatch, & Rambunctious). They have brought so much love & laughter to my life. Thx for listening & for any guidance. Stacey >^..^<
     
  2. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Stacy,
    I am glad you are here. You will get lots of help in whatever you need.

    So, we don't have to talk about your insulin because it's a good one. Lantus is good and so is Levemir; you WILL be able to get Tuxxie's numbers in a good range. With home testing, you will be able to know if the dose is not enough, too much, or just right. You are very wise to decide to learn to home test.... and you'll be alot richer because you won't need to go to the vet for expensive, stressful visits to get Tuxxie's numbers or have a curve done.

    So, let's get to the food... dry food? Toss it out the window! Actually no, return it to the vet or donate it to some local shelter; they will love you for it.
    The best site for info on feeding not only your diabetic cat, but also your others is catinfo.org.
    Dr. Lisa keeps the site current and it's chock full of knowledge. There is also a list she compiled from hundreds of hours communicating with pet food companies... pick any of the foods that are under 10% carbs and Tuxxie should be good. Many feed closer to 5%, but their cats are usually very carb sensitive and their numbers are driven up from the carbs. Most people just go with fancy feast or friskies pate flavors and you are good to go.
    catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

    Home testing is terrific; you will feel in control when you know what Tuxxie's numbers are and that it is safe to give him insulin. If you are in the US, the Relion meters are the most economical and work very well for the purpose. Don't get any of the TRUe meters or the Freestyle meters as they have been inconsistent and unreliable for many cat owners. There are youtubes to watch and people here will have tons of solutions for any difficulty you may have in the beginning. Just post the problem and people will reply with answers.

    The crappy coat is common, but watch for it to improve as you are giving insulin and even before you see better numbers, you will see things like less urine and drinking and a better coat. As for the appetite, just let Tuxxie eat a bit more because diabetics are not capable of extracting the nutrients they need until they are more regulated. You may well see Tuxxie eating a bit less over time, and that's another good sign that he's feeling better.

    So, dump the dry, feed low carb wet food, and start home testing. Before you know it, you will be helping the new guys who arrive here.

    Gayle
     
  3. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Warning......please do not change the food or stop the dry UNTIL you are hometesting. W/D is old school, also used for weight reduction, high in carbs also and changing his food to an all wet lower carb food can drastically lower his numbers. You need to be able to hometest and know what his numbers are before giving him insulin and then you can monitor and go to all canned food.
     
  4. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Glad you found us! This forum is the best place you never wanted to be.

    The starting dose for Lantus using a tight regulation protocol, is .25unit/kg of cats ideal weight. If kitty is underweight, the starting dose is .25u/kg of actual weight. If his ideal weight is 18 lbs, then 18/2.2=8.18 kg x .25u = 2u. If his ideal weight is 15 lbs or he is underweight at -5 lbs, the starting dose would be about 1.7u and rounding down 1.5u.

    It was ok for your vet to start him at 1u but we don't take the dose up in 1u increments..... You could miss his fitting dose by increasing that amount.

    I would highly encourage you to start hometesting and get some data. One of the things vets do not seem to be cognizant of is bouncing. When Tuxxie was diagnosed, his body had become used to the high numbers and the liver recognized those numbers as normal. When numbers start to come down, the liver counteracts lower numbers or steep drops by releasing counterregulaotry hormones and glucagon. This drives the BG up. If you increase the dose without knowing if he is bouncing, you risk overdosing him.

    I'd start hometesting as so as possible and you can make a Spreadsheet that you can record the numbers on for us to see.

    Let us know if you need help learning to hometest.
     
  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Welcome Stacey and her sugarkitty Tuxxie.

    A diabetes diagnosis with your beloved Tuxxie is scary, heartbreaking, stressful and overwhelming. It is not a death sentence by any means. It does mean learning some new information to take care of your cat.

    It took time for your cat to become diabetic, it will take time for the diabetes to be controlled and then possibly achieve remission. Think of this diabetes journey with your cat as being a marathon, not a sprint.

    Lantus is a good insulin for controlling diabetes in cats, long lasting and there are a lot of experienced users of that insulin here.

    One reason your vet may have recommended the Hill's W/d cat food was because your cat was overweight. It is common for vets to prescribe that w/d food for diabetic cats that need to lose some more weight. Did your vet tell you that Tuxxie is still over weight? Did he say what Tuxxie's ideal weight was?

    My best advice? Breath, take deep breaths and release whenever you are feeling stressed. With the help of your vet and the collective experience of the members here on the message board, we can help your cat to feel better.
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB!

    So much stuff to learn here - I've some learning tips in my signature link which may help.

    One step at a time - you're already giving insulin, so focus on the hometesting. This will help keep your kitty safe.

    We test before each shot to make sure the glucose is not too low for safety. We suggest new folk not give insulin below 200 mg/dL until they have collected some tests and have a better idea how the cat will resppond.

    Whenever possible, we test around the expected low point - the nadir - to see how effective the insulin is. Dose adjustments for Lantus are made based on the nadir, not the pre-shot numbers.

    Many folks snag a before bed test, so they can sleep or so they are prepared if the cat is heading to low numbers quickly.
     
  7. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Thank you for your replies!
    Glad to hear the insulin (Lantus) is a good one.
    I know I need to learn & start doing home testing & charting. Will check the meters you have suggested (yes, I am in the US - AZ).. & watch a lot of youtube! I have been giving Tuxxie his shots while he is eating.. it seems to distract him. However, he is becoming more squirmy & will walk away when I start petting him.. like he is sensing it. Maybe I need to rethink this routine? I had to hold him down this morning & I don't want to do that cuz he will be under the bed every time I try & get close to him!
    OK.. so no dry food? I started the (dry & wet) w/d because the vet said to. I have another cat on c/d for crystals, but the vet said everyone can eat the w/d. I think she started this because of his high weight & said it was for diabetic cats (?!!?). I had always had all 5 cats on a mix of Blue & the c/d (dry), & would split 1 can of Friskies each morning between the 5 of them. So the wet food was like a special treat for them. I will look for better choices (low carb) of wet foods. High protein & low carb? Should I be concerned w/ fat content? Will check out the links you have provided. But am also concerned with making any big changes that may effect him in a bad way. Tuxxie is weighing around 15 pounds & has been fairly constant for about a week. Before that, he was 16-18 pounds. I could tell a big difference in his body getting thinner, which is why I got worried & took him back in.. since he was still eating & drinking a lot. Vet didn't tell me what his ideal weight is. He has always been a large cat, especially since making him an indoor kitty.
    His coat has always been messy.. again, ever since making him an indoor cat 10 years ago! They had me try fish oil & vit E years ago.. didn't help. So am hopeful it will get better. Also hope his little nose heals.
    When on the 1 unit, I noticed him still drinking & urinating a lot. Now that we started 2 units, will see. Oh & maybe I need to say something to the vet about the units? As they only talked about full units (1,2) & not partial (.25, .5). I don't want to miss anything. & did not know about 'bouncing.'
    I also used to give the Temptation treats. All but 1 cat loved them. But have backed off those because I heard they are full of carbs. So any good treats I can get?
    Ok, am gonna go snuggle with Tuxxie! Thanks for your guidance & support.. I will keep reading.. & keep asking questions!
    Oh!.. How do I get a picture of Tuxxie up by my name?
    Stacey :)
     
  8. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    p.s.. the vet said to inject the insulin at his rear or under his scruff. I have been able to get his rear a few times but usually can't seem to pull up enough skin, so I get the scruff? Is this ok? will he build up scar tissue & it will be harder to shoot there? does it absorb ok when given there? thx!
     
  9. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Where are you in AZ? I'm in Tucson. I can come help you learn to home test if you are in the Tucson area.

    Here is a post I did on Testing and Shooting Tips. It shows you the best areas to inject the insulin. It might also give you some good info for hometesting.
     
  10. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    I am in Yuma, but thx for the offer! If I were closer.. you bet! I will read through your post right now!.. thx!
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Here is a link to a list of low carb treats. low carb healthy treats My cats love the Pure Bites freeze dried Chicken, Whole Life freeze dried Liver, Halo Liv-a little freeze dried chicken.

    1. To get a picture up by your name, shrinkpictures.com has an Avatar tool to shrink a picture you have.
    2. Select the Create Avatar tool over on the left hand side of the screen
    3. Follow the directions on that website to shrink the picture to 90 x 90 pixels max size.
    4. Save the picture to your computer. Remember the name you gave it and the folder where you saved it. Something simple lie Tuxxies avatar in your picture folder would be good.
    5. Now that you have a small enough picture, it's time to update your user control panel in the FDMB.
    6. Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
    7. On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
    8. On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Avatar.
    9. Go down to the box where it says "Upload from Your Machine"
    10 There is a browse feature that you can click on.
    11. find the folder and name of the picture you saved back in step 4.
    12. Click on that picture to select it.
    13. Click on submit to save this change.

    You should have a picture in all your posts now. You can change the avatar picture in the future too.

    It may look like a lot of steps but I like to give clear step by step directions where possible. It will probably only take you about 2-3x minutes to do the actual steps. The hard part is going to being choosing only one picture of Tuxxie to share with us. :eek: :shock: :eek:
     
  12. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, some vets do not realize that you can give insulin in doses as small as quarter units. We have found that our small cats often need smaller dose increase to go along with their smaller body size. After all, they are not huge Saint Bernard dogs! :eek:

    There are 3/10 cc syringes with 1/2 unit markings. They were developed for human children.
     
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Maybe check back with your vet office and see if there are any notations on Tuxxie's chart about losing weight or remarks about being overweight? Obesity can contribute to insulin resistance, especially in male cats. I can search for the vet journal study if you want.

    The no dry food is a strong suggestion we have. If your cats preference is for dry food, then we have some dry food suggestions there to help you out. The lower carb seems to be a key factor in controlling diabetes although studies disagree on how low the number needs to be. ECID.

    My cat Wink spikes up with only a few ounces of a slightly higher carb food. I try to keep his food around 4-6% to keep him in remission.

    We like the http://www.catinfo.org website to learn about cat nutrition.

    You do not want to make any big changes in the carb content of the food until you are home testing. Cats have been known to drop 100 points or more from just the food switch. It can happen really fast, in a matter of days and then you may have a hypo on your hands.
     
  14. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Hi & thx for the replies!
    Ok, I found the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken at PetSmart. Tuxxie seems to like them! (& so do most of the others. Even Cooter, the dog, checked one out!) Didn't see the others you mentioned, but will look around & online.
    Will definitely ask about/say something to the vet about going from 1 to 2 units. Interestingly, I see the syringes I have are marked only in full units (1,2,3..). We go in Friday to have Tuxxie checked. Last time I took him in, the techs did it all & I never got to talk w/ the doctor.. (they were all out to lunch!) I wasn't happy. If anyone reading this is in Yuma, AZ, let me know if you are happy w/ your vet! I will also ask about his weight.. is he where he needs to be? Or is he still overweight? Is that why she prescribed the w/d?
    It almost sounds like BG can drop significantly if on a low carb, wet food diet. Is that correct? Thx for the links to cat food & treats that are good.. will read them all!
    Thx for the instructions on getting a picture up here.. will do that today!
    Oh.. I shot Tux in the rear this morning. I was feeling I couldn't get the skin I needed back there.. but I got lucky this morning!
    On the glucose meters.. I am looking at the ReliOn Confirm. But I also see the Alpha Trak 2. Besides cost, are there others pluses for the ReliOn over the Alpha Trak 2?
    Thx again for all your help through this,
    Stacey :)
     
  15. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, I've had personal experience with that.

    Cost of test strips and the meter are big factors.

    Relion Confirm meter $14-17.
    1. Test strips, box of 50 $19.98, box of 100 $36.
    2.Only available at Walmart but online and at a store. Interchangeble test strips with Relion Mini and Arkray Glucocard 01. Arkray glucocard 01 test strips available on-line at ADW, our shopping partner for a good price. Use the link at the top of the screen and the board gets a little money to keep it going.

    Alphatrak test meter $120-200.
    2.Test strips, box of 50, $49.99 to $100. Box of 100, $97.98 to ??? Alphatrak test strips from your vet may have a large markup. I've heard from one member her vet office prices are high, a vial of Alphatrak test strips is $100 for 50, $2 each. At 4 tests a day, that is $8. Alpahtrak test strips from ADW are about $0.96 each in bulk.
    3. Alphatrak meters available on line at lower cost than the vet.

    I strongly suggest buying at least 100-150 test strips to start. You can go through them amazingly quickly. At 4 tests a day * 31 days = 124. If you have a hypo or are doing a curve, add another 50 a month.

    While you are shopping pick up this list of items.
    Here is the link to the google doc for the shopping list for you to print out. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10aMJygUoyodh8lMhnx65YaQmg3s18XJdhldhDKIjCsw/edit?pli=1 So you don't have to write that big list down.

    If your dog likes them they come in a bigger bag with larger pieces. Lower price on a larger size bag and you just break them up into smaller corn kernel size pieces for Tuxxie and the other cats.
     
  16. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    I'm new here also, about a month in.

    I use the ReliOn confirm...the strips are much more affordable and as you start hometesting, you will see how rapidly you go through them.

    Poe is also on Lantus, at 1.25 2x's a day, but looking at an increase over the weekend.

    I have been taught that the scruff is not the best place to shoot. If you can grab a hold of the flank of their belly, kind of pull it up in a tent shape, it's easier and more effective to shoot in that area. Poe is not bothered by testing or shots at all. He was very tolerant from the beginning, so I was lucky.

    He was also a dry food kitty, and when first diagnosed after an asthma attack that landed us at the Vet ER, they wanted me to get the prescriptions foods too. After doing a search of feline diabetes, I found the catinfo.org site and started reading up, which lead me to here, and after finding a local vet (I had recently moved to the area), she also is a follower of these sites having a diabetic cat herself.

    Before I started Poe on the insulin, I removed all dry food. He was also getting wet, 2 x's a day, but it was high carb canned. Again, I was fortunate that he did not mind the removal of dry food.

    Welcome aboard !!
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Checking for obesity / body condition:

    Can you feel the hip, spine, rib bones very, very easily because they are jutting out?
    - if yes, definitely underweight.

    If you have to really press down to find any bone, more likely to be overweight.

    If your cat is muscled, with very little belly sway, bones may be felt but are not protruding, he may be about right.

    Are there any rubbery lumps along the body? Those can be lipomas, which may be slightly more likely to occur in heavier cats.
     
  18. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hello there

    You might want to pick up some syringes with half unit markings because we find that 1 unit is too drastic a dose change (either up or down) in a creature as small as cat ie For U-100 syringes (Lantus, Levemir), get 3/10 cc, half-unit marked, short needle, 30-31 gauge ie Relion 3/10cc 30 & 31 gauge short, or BD Ultra fine 3/10cc short, or Terumo Thinpro Insulin Syringe 31G 3/10cc.

    yes thats correct which is why home testing is key when you make that change. it can even drop low enough to enable remission! (40% of cats in the first 6 months)

    Wendy
     
  19. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Hi and welcome!

    I've been noticing a trend that most cats don't mind when you give them a shot while eating, however, some cats start taking exception to that within a couple of weeks, like my Michelangelo and sounds like your Tuxxie. What I learned with Mikey is that he prefers for me to announce I'm giving him a shot and he prefers me to shoot on only one side (his right). Sometimes, I still end up following him around the house like a terribly incompetent and conspicuous stalker. :lol: But now for the most part, when I say, "shot time," he'll present me with his right side. :thumbup
     
  20. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    hi all & thx for your continued support & guidance!

    well.. back from the vet..

    Tuxxie's BG is higher.. 506. it is up from last week at 443, & I have increased his insulin from 1 to 2 units (twice, daily). they told me he was just over 300 when diagnosed a few weeks ago.. but in looking at his chart.. he was actually at 604! so he went down instead of up like i thot after the first week w/ 1 unit 2 times a day. but now he went back up while getting 2 units twice, daily. I mentioned his nose is still dry & crusty & she looked at his chart.. he had 2 shots of depo medrol for it just prior to being diagnosed. she said he could possibly be a transient kitty & the med set off the diabetes. I asked about his weight.. he was at 17 pounds in may.. but has been 15 the past 3 visits. she said he is a big cat. I told her he is still drinking & peeing a lot. first she said to increase the insulin to 3 units, twice a day, & come back in 2 weeks. said she would not increase it again in a week.. so that's why 2 week wait and see period. so I started asking about food. told her I had read where a low carb diet could bring the BG down like 100-200 points. & that wet food was better than dry.. & that I started him on the W/D science diet (wet & dry like they told me to) but it looks to be high in carbs. she said I could try the "catkins diet".. like atkins.. high protein. said to not let him graze on the dry.. but feed him 1 can of fancy feast in the am & 1 can in the pm (no gravy or rice type). that might also make him more tolerant for shots.. since he will be more hungry & I have been shooting while he is eating.. but he is becoming more & more fussy. I asked about him crashing w/ the change of food & less carbs & higher insulin.. & she said if I go the food route, to stay at 2 units. come back in 2 weeks to see if anything changes. i said can I come back in 1 week? I want to know if it is working or not. I asked her about home testing. she thinks I wont have luck chasing & getting blood from his ear when I am having trouble giving him his shots. but said I could do urine strips. she said purina makes something you put in his box. she said she went to some seminar about feline diabetes.. & was talking about that. she said "I used to hate dealing w/ diabetic cats, but now it's fun!" !?!?.. really? sooo.. I guess I am doing the food change & same amount of insulin for another week. tux was hard to get today to go to the vet. he was under the bed & NOT coming out. had to get the vacuum cleaner under there & after him. that's about the only place in the entire house he can hide & I cant get to him. so, I dunno.. thoughts??
    thx, stacey :)
     
  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    The protocol we follow only raises the dose in 0.25U increments. By raising a full unit at a time, you may be bypassing the appropriate dose for your cat.

    Do you have your hypo toolkit prepped just in case the 2U dose is too much for him with the food change?

    Here is the list of hypo symptoms to look for. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887Most cats show no symptoms. I strongly suggest printing out a copy and review this so you know what to do in case you think the BG numbers are too low.

    Since you do not have a glucometer for home testing, you will need to take your cat to the 24 hour emergency clinic if you suspect a hypo.
     
  22. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    that's what i'm worried about..
    can i stay at 2 units (not go to 3 like vet suggested).. & slowly introduce low carb?.. is that possible?!
    I have 5 cats.. & 1 is on a special diet for crystals.. so I have to make sure he eats something besides fancy feast.
    but if I leave it out.. tuxxie will get into it, no doubt!
    should I just go to the 3 units like she suggested & keep the food the same? (I have dry out.. a mix of C/D, W/D, and blue) & feeding some wet W/D, fancy feast, & friskies mix to all the cats twice a day (when shooting tux).
    I specifically asked the vet about crashing if I change to low carb & she didn't see a problem. is this typical thinking w/ vets?
    will get the emergency hypo kit together.. thx for the info!
    (I kept things the same for tonights feeding & insulin.. need to go shopping..)
    stacey :)
     
  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I switched Wink from high carb to low carb over a period of 3 weeks. Gradually cut back on the amount of high carb dry and replaced that with low carb wet food. I was reducing the dose but not fast enough and he dropped really low, below 40 and had to get him back up with food and honey. Long, long day and long, long sleepless night. Not fun. Several times in that same week this happened. This was before I was posting much on this board and didn't know much. The shelter staff and their vets said not to worry about it. In fact, they wanted me to stop testing so much. I told them I was going to test Wink as much as I felt I needed to do to keep him safe.

    I got to the point where I stopped all insulin because the numbers were too low and did the final food change to all low carb. I was at 3/4 wet and 1/4 dry at this point. I never had to give more than 0.1U after that food change.

    If you want to switch foods, you have to be home testing. It's not safe to give the insulin, change the food and hope that the numbers will be high enough to prevent him from crashing. If I had not been home testing Wink, I don't think he would be alive today. The shelter gave me a no shoot number of 100 and never even mentioned a hypo. Someone casually mentioned this to me about 7 days after I had Wink and I went and read up about it. Scary.

    If this were my cat, I would not raise to 3U as your vet suggested. Many vets do not know that you can raise the Lantus dose by 0.25U or 0.5U at a time. It is much safer and you have a better chance of finding a good dose for your cat and not bypassing the appropriate dose. Just my 2 cents worth.
     
  24. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    With uncontrolled glucose levels, you need to be checking for ketones. These are a by-product of fat breakdown for calories. Too many may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA), a potentially fatal, expensive to treat complication of diabetes.

    If you go to a regular pharmacy, the diabetic section may have test strips on the shelf, or they may be behind the counter. You want KetoStix (ketone test only) or KetoDiaStix (ketone and glucose test). Generic versions of these are fine. The advantage of the later is a rough estimate of glucose levels exceeding the renal threshold (anywhere from 180-280 mg/dL depending on the reference source) during the time since the previous void.

    If you detect more than trace urine ketones, you call the vet asap.
     
  25. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You may find this article on urinary tract health by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson informative. http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth
     
  26. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thx for the continued info & guidance! will read what you all sent..
    :)
     
  27. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Sounds like you need a plan!

    First I would start home testing. That way you can see exactly what is going on. There are hundreds of people (if not thousands) on this board that home test with no probelms at all ( first few weeks can be hard but its easy when you get used to it!). My cats just lie there and dont even open their eyes when its going on. Once we have those numbers we will know if a dose reduction is needed. We might even have a member near you that can come and show you.

    Then I would change the food to a nice low carb wet like Fancy feast classic pates or friskies pates. Depending on his numbers we might even drop him to 1unit then.

    Wendy
     
  28. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    hows things going now?

    Wendy
     
  29. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    hi, we go back in tomorrow to get checked out.
    tuxxie has been improving (in his numbers, as well as symptoms). even his crusty nose has cleared up.
    in fact, last fri the vet said to stop the insulin (he was at 89), then said to give a 1/2 unit twice a day.
    the diet change really brought his numbers down. (no dry, fancy feast classic & friskies pate twice a day & only a few freeze dried chicken treats).
    I heard it could lower it by 100-200 points. but his numbers went from (weekly) 600, 450, 500, 86, 89.. w/ the last 2 readings being after the diet change.
    no, I have not home tested. I do have the keto-diastyx. I know.. I need to home test.
    I am also planning on traveling soon. taking tux w/ me instead of boarding him. I have a cat sitter, but she doesn't want to give shots.
    I am hopeful that the depo medrol shots may have brought on the diabetes (possibility according to vet).. & that tux will be able to go OTJ soon.
    thanks for your continued support :)
     
  30. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If Tux will be traveling with you, start practicing for it now so he doesn't get too stressed.

    It might be good to train him to accept a harness and leash as this will help protect him from escaping, plus you can go for walks with him when you stop for the night.
     
  31. Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA

    Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    yes - the depo medrol shots can induce diabetes

    Sounds like you're doing great so far. Learning to home test would still be a good idea -- even if your kitty becomes diet controlled - future illness could bring back the diabetes.
     
  32. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Sounds like he could be approaching remission - lets hope he keeps it up! Let us know how the vet visit goes today!
     
  33. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    ok.. well last fri (19th) I took tux in & his bg was at 73. he had been receiving 1/2 unit lantus am & pm. vet told me to stop the insulin. I told her I was planning to travel for 2 weeks soon. she told me to keep feeding as I am & come back before I head out of town. so it has been 4 days.. no insulin.. same food (am & pm wet fancy feast classic / friskies pate only). tux was at 155 today at the vets. vet seemed pleased & told me to not give insulin for the 2 weeks we will be gone, but to keep the food the same, & to come back in when we return. I know 155 is good.. but am afraid it will continue to increase w/o the insulin. thoughts? vet said it's better to be over than under.. but I am reading where shooting low helps remission?? ugg..
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    That 155 is higher than we like to see for a cat headed for remission. The BG's should be in the 40-120 range to be considered in remission, preferably under 100. Sometimes just being at the vet or the car ride there will elevate the BG numbers.

    If you were home testing, you could check the BG numbers yourself.

    7/19 73 at vet
    7/23 155 at vet - vet stopped insulin.

    Yes, it certainly could continue to increase. You could drop the dose to 0.25U. Support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Check with your vet since you are not home testing.

    Not sure how long before you go away. I would definitely recommend getting a BG test as soon as you return.

    How are his clinical symptoms? The excessive peeing, drinking, eating. Are they back to normal?
     
  35. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I think at this point home testing would be a good idea as he may be approaching remission but not quite there. Ideally I am thinking you get a home test kit and move him to 0.25IU and see how that goes . If he goes below 50, or is 40-130 for the week then drop to 0.1IU and see how that goes. And then OTJ. Ideally all before you leave...

    reason I say home testing is that his BG is likely higher at the vets.

    When do you leave?

    Wendy
     
  36. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    ok.. so I came back from my 2 week vacation w/ tuxxie yesterday. today, we went to the vet.
    during those 2 weeks, I fed him wet classic fancy feast & friskies pate, twice a day. only treats were the freeze dried chicken treats. no insulin.
    the day before we left, the vet had him at 155. today.. 110.
    she said to keep feeding as usual & no more shots. I am to take him back in a month.
    thoughts???
    oh, I do believe he is drinking & urinating less. his nose has healed. but his coat still has dandruff.
    but he was the best traveler! he rode about 1200 miles in a crate in the front seat.. w/ his 125 pound chessie brother in his crate in the back of the suv!
    I thot he'd be stressed being at different places, too.. but he did well.
    my other 4 cats are hissing at him now that he is back home, tho!
    thx for the continued advise & support!
    Stacey :)
     
  37. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Personally I would home test to see how he is doing. Some cats manage to go off the insulin fast but many need weaned off slowly

    It's looking real good though!
    Wendy
     
  38. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thanks!
     
  39. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hows he doing now?

    Wendy
     
  40. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Hi! Sorry for being away for so long..
    Well Tuxxie went to the vet today. His last visit was 8/7 & his BG was 110 & he weighed 14.5.
    Today his BG was 114 & his weight was 14.8.
    He has been OTJ since 7/19.
    The vet seemed pleased & said to keep doing what we are doing (AM & PM feedings of Fancy Feast Classic / Friskies Pate). I have also been using the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken as his only treats. She said to bring him back in 6 months to check his BG, & before to check his weight or if I see any changes.
    Am so happy things are going well.. but still worried!
    :)
     
  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I still hometest Wink once a week, to make sure his BG is still in normal 40-130 range. So far so good, and it's been 6 months so far. He did concern me a bit the other day, when he gave me a BG of 91, so I retested +3 after food and he was back down to 68.

    If you home test, that could help to allay some of your fear and worries. Just a thought.
     
  42. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    In my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools are some ways you can monitor him besides blood glucose. If some of the less quantitative observations change, they're usually a heads up something is going on (ex thirst and appetite changes, urine and fecal output changes)
     
  43. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thanks for the continued support & info! :)
     
  44. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Try not to worry - its great he is in remission - here are some tips to help keep him there:

    Tips to stay OTJ

    We say a cat is in remission if the cat can maintain BG levels for 14 days between 40-120 with most of that spent under 100. However, please keep in mind that once a diabetic always a diabetic.

    1. Never feed dry - not even treats. If you change wet food types, be 100% sure the new food is also low carb and same low carb % as your current food. Some cats are very carb sensitive and an increase from 3-6% to 8-10% can spike the BG’s. Don’t feed if you aren’t sure!
    2. Weigh every 2 weeks to 1 month to watch for weight changes. Too much of a weight gain can cause loss of remission.
    3. Measure blood once a week, indefinitely. You want to catch a relapse quickly.
    4. No steroids or oral meds with sugar - remind your vet whenever giving you any medication. Always double check.
    5. Monitor food intake, peeing and drinking. If increasing, a sign of losing remission.
    6. Regular vet checks for infection such as dental , ear or UTI. And get them treated quick!

    If he does fall out of remission you need to be more aggressive and resolve issues/ back on insulin as soon as possible as the window for a second remission is tight if any.
     
  45. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thx for the info! i need to learn all i can!
    do cats who are in remission frequently go back to needing insulin?
     
  46. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I don't think we have stats. I have seen a number fall out of remission.

    But once a diabetic always a diabetic. Just be super careful and keep a close eye. I messed up my Tiggys remission by feeding him high carb wet by mistake. He has been back on the juice now for over a year and probably will never go back in. Other cats manage to go back in with aggressive dosing and testing, and treating whatever caused them to fall out.
     
  47. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    aww, i'm sorry to hear about tiggy. but yikes! it sure doesn't take much, does it?
     
  48. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I fed him the high carb wet for a few months and within 2 weeks of it (it was only 13% carbs too ) he was back on insulin. It was another 6 weeks at least before I realized the issue. We had thought the problem was stress from the new cat we added, not remembering we had tried a new food. And the vet had insisted the new food was low carb and I didn't check.
     
  49. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    I trusted my vet, too.. put Tuxxie on the dry W/D science diet. I did that til I started reading here! But it stinks that's all it took was those few weeks of a different food. I have a few cans of higher carb food in the cabinet. Was feeding it to the other cats (I have 5).. but am afraid Tux might try & sneak some. So will give it away :) Hope Tiggy isn't as anxious anymore w/ your newer addition.
     
  50. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    great.. I have been leaving a little dry food for the other cats (I have one who is on a special diet for crystals) on the counter. they can all jump up there except for tuxxie. or so i thought. i heard some crunching tonight & peeked in.. & tuxxie was on the counter eating the dry food! now i am worried! b/c earlier today, he was laying by the water bowl. we were just at the vets on Wednesday.. BG = 114 (6 weeks ago was 110) & weight was 14.8 (6 weeks ago was 14.5). he has been OTJ since july.. should i be worried? (i am!) no.. i don't home test (i know.. not good). but now i am wondering if this was not the first time he has been up there.. thx.
     
  51. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Best thing for a cat with "crystals" is more water in their diet. Vet Dr. Lisa Pierson gives a good explanation in this article of why a diagnosis of "crystals" is not always accurate and the proper diet for urinary tract health.

    Probably not the first time that Tuxxie has been up on the counter, eating that higher carb dry food. As Wendy & Tiggy know well, higher carb food can cause a cat to lose their diet controlled remission status. If it were my home, I'd work really hard to transition all the cats to a low carb wet food diet. Better for all of them.
     
  52. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thx, will research more about crystals. they said sasquatch had them when he was young & prescribed science diet c/d. he has been on it (mixed w/ other dry) for almost 10 years now. I just heard from someone else w/ a crystal cat about adding more water to their diet, too.

    tuxxie has not been able to jump on that counter for some time. he tried & repeatedly failed. but guess he is getting stronger! I have taken away all the dry food for now. am watching tuxxie.. just afraid I messed up his remission..
     
  53. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If you've not yet been told, not being able to jump on the counter could be diabetic neuropathy, which may be helped by using methylcobalamin, a specific form of Vitamin B-12.

    Or it could be muscle loss from the diabetes, if he lost weight.
     
  54. apsyched1

    apsyched1 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    thank you. no, did not know about the neuropathy. he did lose a lot of weight prior to being diagnosed. was always a big guy.. like 22 pounds. then eventually went down to 14. since then, he has gained a little (less than 1 pound). could be muscle loss also. will check into this & the form of B-12. I am surprised he could jump on the counter now.. b/c he has not been able to for quite some time.
     
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