New ProZinc User - DoDo

Hello!

So I figured I should post over here since this is my forum for my little boy.

DoDo started on ProZinc on Tuesday evening of this week.

I am logging everything in my iPhone's BloodWise App-- and will export into a spreadsheet on google.

Tonight

PMPS = 428 Gave 1.5 u (my syringes do not have a halfway mark but I eyeballed it)
+2 = 378

Right now, DoDo is eating Hill's A/D (he went 5 days without eating on his own-- I had to syringe feed) and since tonight was the FIRST night he ate a 1/2 can on his own, I know even though it is not low carb-- I do not want to mess up his delicate appetite (trying to get him eating fully on his own and then will move back to Wellness or Raw)

I am testing with a Freestyle Lite although the first PMPS tonight was with the AccuCheck (I have heard they are close to the Freestyle Lite and are both made by Abbott). I need to be consistent and using the Freestyle for the +2 was a little in error-- but I had a fussy cat and could not run for the other monitor.

I will be waking up at 2:00am to test his nadir and see where he is at.

 

Hi there and welcome.

Seems like you have your hands full right now. My only comment at this point would be that when you have the opportunity, if you could put together a profile [instructions in top of the Tech Support Forum - just like the spread sheet] that will help us help you better by having a good background on all of DoDo's issues.

I will say that when most people come here and they are on a high carb food and usually the high dose of insulin to match that, when they move to a low carb food the general suggestion is to drop back to 1u and re-regulate [if ketones are in then picture then to home test for those too]. The current 1.5u is not a high dose though.

Sometimes too when I'm dealing with H's appetite issues and I REALLY need him to eat or we are testing new foods, I'll put two piles - one of the new and old food so he at least has something to eat that I know he will eat. This gives him the option to get with the program or do it his way. :smile:

We use the Freestyle Lite and ProZinc too :smile:

I hope DoDo is feeling better soon. cat_pet_icon

 

welcome! and yes we are eager to see more of dodo's info.
probably wise to stick with whatever he'll eat at this point.
and his daytime nadir should be fine...hate to see you getting up in the middle of the night for that.
wait for a week or so of settling before giving a curve...
and again welcome to pzi

 

Welcome!! We *love* info here, so pass it on as you compile it! You've got a good start!

As another owner of a finicky cat who lost WAY too much weight, the first step is to get them to eat anything. I had Ari eating tuna for a while because that's all I could convince her to eat. I've had to use the Bellyrubs treats on top of new food to even get her to take a few bites. Until he gets a bit more settled, all food is good food. When he does switch, I'll repeat Gator's advice - your dose will likely change. Use the monitoring to adjust accordingly.

 

Thanks everyone-- I went ahead and created the profile and google spreadsheet.

Thanks again!

I did have a question about this morning so hopefully some of you can offer some advice.

 

The green at +12 makes me think that the 2 is too high of a dose for him. I'd wait him out until he spikes to wherever your shot # is (what is the lowest you shoot at?). If you are getting him to eat well now, I'd go back to 1 and start back from there and see what he does for 2 or 3 shots then slowly raise your dose back up. I know how scary the reds and blacks are, but if you give him too much insulin, he may throw you some of those #'s a cycle or two after the too high shot when his body fights the too high dose.

 

OK Wow, PS->PS of 415->74 !

2u seems like too much. I would get to the low carb asap and drop back to 1u. With anything but low carb wet you can sometimes see numbers all over the place like that. So right now it's hard to say what is going on exactly. But that HUGE drop scares me a little. It will be interesting to see how he zooms today with no insulin. What is your no shoot level right now?

How is DoDo eating? Well? The amount of food going in has much to do with the amount of insulin they need. Was he eating well then stopped eating last night?

I was reading your profile, DoDo never had keytone issues right?

Also it seems DoDo might need less than 2u - so I thought I would mention the U100 syringe thing. There is reading in the sticky about using U100 syringes with U40 insulin [ProZinc]. It is something you might want to consider which can help you make finer, more consistent dosing gradients. Many here buy their U100 syringes locally, the sticky provides the link to order them.

BTW it seems you are into raw. I highly recommend http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com . This site and product will allow you to build a food with a known nutritional profile. To my knowledge, Dr. Pierson's recipe does not have a published nutritional profile [and thus one does not know if it meets AAFCO standards or not or what's in it exactly] - you should ask her for one and see. Most raw with bones [especially the ones that use the whole bird] have too much phosphorous in them - especially for a cat with urinary issues. Dr. Pierson's recipe does remove some of the bones [where the majority of the P comes from] & uses thigh meat to reduce the P but removing the bones also reduces the trace minerals and ultimately, to my knowledge, the end nutritional profile is unknown. Pierson has a CRF/CKD recipe, which I think the has alluded is supposed to have lower P, but she does not publish it on the web. Another nice part is that you can buy pre-deboned chicken or whatever. Of course then your would use their product which is intended for meat without bones. Some think bones are the best way to provide calcium, and trace minerals - so they also make a product if you intend to use bones. Anyway, the owner of knowwhatyoufeed is an old member of this board and she had been SUPER helpful to me. I use their product for our Home Cooked.
Good kitty nutritional reading:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 99&aid=657
http://www.markmorrisinstitute.org/atta ... ts%20b.pdf
I can provide more info if you like.

Also do make sure to read the Start Low Go Slow in the Sticky at the top of this forum which will give you the basic way most start our dosing PZI. There are a bunch of dosing techniques for PZI since it is so flexible, so it is not something that is written in stone but it is a good starting place.

 

Hello, DoDo and DoDo's bean (what is your name, if I may ask?)! Welcome to the board.

I have no advice to offer as far as dosing or ProZinc, but I did want to say welcome. This ISG (insulin support group) is wonderful, with great people who have a lot of knowledge and are figuring out ProZinc together. The board in general is a wonderful resource, and I am so glad you've found us. :smile:

 

Thank you so much everyone!!

My name is Christina

So I just got back home-- well got little DoDo taken care of and now just able to sit at my computer.

Boy was my little fellow FUSSY when he heard we came into the house.

He ran to the door (we still have him segregated until we can get him a little more healthy). My mom made the mistake of beginning to feed the other pride kitties and DoDo was feeling very HELL NO to testing. Btw, his right ear just does not like to cooperate and bleed for me. I end up wasting at least two strips on it for not taking enough blood.

Last night he ate very healthy-- 3/4 of his can and a couple dried salmon treats to bribe him to think positively about his testings. I don't have to bribe him or beg him to eat anymore he is CHOWING down into his suppers.

DoDo never had an issue with the ketones-- my vet triple checked (with her in house test 2x and the lab done analysis). She said we may be very fortunate that the french fries and hushpuppies my mom thoughtlessly fed him may have pushed him over the edge to get so sick and were just fortunate to see him feel crummy very fast and begin to treat him. In retrospect, I guess he was peeing a lot-- but to me-- I was always so relieved due to his past urinary issues. I never once considered he could be diabetic-- I mean I fed him wonderful food, got his excess weight off-- how could it happen right?

At any rate, I was about 40 min late past the 8pm and I was "relieved" to see he was at 382. The low carb Sophisticat is much more ideal than the Hill's A/D. I am going to keep the Hill''s A/D just in case I have anymore food issues. I had to get my little fellow into the bathroom and wrestle a little bit to get an ear drop and promptly rewarded him with those Beefeater Dried Salmon chunks. He felt pretty a okay after that.

He ate 3/4 of a can tonight and I gave him 1u. I figured-- maybe I need to now just start over back to the 1u (as many of you also suggested) because so much has changed 1. DoDo is no longer feverish 2. He is off of the Hill's A/D that obviously made his BG levels soar-- I think our biggest so far has been 428. So considering that he had no insulin at all today-- until tonight, I think this is a great improvement. 3. DoDo get out and exercise quite a bit yesterday with his new laser toy. 4. He is off of all medications

Tomorrow the plan is to dose in the morning at 1u (assuming he makes it well through the night). I will wake up at the 6 hour mark to take another look-- I am going to forgo the 2 hour mark and just look at him-- the ear pricks are getting him annoyed I think because of all of my misses-- and I want him to view the time as semi positive at least.

So it is back to 1u-- considering how much "changes" have been made since we started down this journey.

Btw, Gator I did go to the knowwhatyoufeed and saw your recipe. I think I will be looking a more in depth with it. I do think my crew is going to be fed canned in the mornings-- so much defrosting on a tight morning schedule and I want all the kids to be fed at the same time so it does not interfere with DoDo's schedule. I will save the raw at night. Thanks again for the link-- I saw it in your profile the other night and spent some time on the website.

 

Which Sophisticat? Also you may want to put the Sophisticat and flavor in your profile and keep it updated to what ever you are feeding. This is the most asked question of those who give advice [because it is SO important]. Also you might want to put something in your profile indication "NO KEYTONES" too so that is clear [this is a good thing and you are one of the seeming few recent ones that have not had keytone issues].

On the testing thing, I have a couple hints for you to help things go smoother.

1) Take you time with the rice sock and get that ear nice and warm. You should start to feel the warmth of the sock through the ear to the palm of your hand.

2) When you pull the "go" button on the lancer, do not jump move or jerk when it actually goes. And IMPORTANTLY count "One Kitty Kitty" to yourself after pressing the go button before moving the lancer even a bit.

3) Get your kitty in a comfortable, safe place. I get H in one of his beds beds that he loves. I do it on his territory I do not drag the bed into where I want it. And reward, reward, reward.

4) If you are still having problems getting blood, know the gauge of the lancets you are using. I like using the 28g ones, the lower the number the bigger the lancet.


Lastly I hate to ask a question twice if you have already answered [but it is VERY important], I'm trying to keep kitties straight. But have you decided on a no shoot level, and what is it?

 

Hi there---

So-- you may have something with the lancet gauge-- mine are in the 30s I know that-- they are very very fine. I think the Accu-Check kit my vet gave me had some in the 20s-- so I will check those out.

I do the rice sock and thankfully he loves that. He likes to plop down on it.

The Sophisticats I am using for him are the ones that had 1 or less carb on the chart (I got the selections to let him tell me which ones he preferred. I know one is the Mixed Grill).

 

Hey there sorry, I edited my last post late and just wanted to make sure about your no shoot.

"Lastly I hate to ask a question twice if you have already answered [but it is VERY important], I'm trying to keep kitties straight. But have you decided on a no shoot level, and what is it?"

Sorry, it just that it is important and I want to make sure we did not skip that.

BTW, thank you for doing the Profile. My short term memory is mush and it really help me a) know the background and b) keep the individual kitties separate in my mush-brain. :smile:

 

Hi Gator-- I guess I will defer what to others have said about no shooting. I am trying to find that chart I saw that if it were less than like a 100 to not shoot

Or maybe I just read that.

Even last night it seems like his nadir -- well I have no idea when it is happening. It doesnt seem like with the 1u he goes down hardly far from his PS.

Although I will say using the 25 gauge lancets makes things A LOT easier!! We get a good drop each time now. 3/3 times at least.

 

For beginners the generally recommended no shoot level is a PS or pre shot of 200. That usually drops one you get data and your legs about you so to speak. If you hit a PS of 200 or less and you skip then you might back off just a hair - perhaps by .1u or .2u.

25g? Wow, that big. I use 28g and that's considered pretty big. But for now it's working so great. Just make sure to apply pressure for 20-30 seconds after you get the sample to reduce bruising and callusing.

 

I will go check again-- I think it was 25-- I could be wrong. They came in the Accu-Track kit my vet ordered for me.-- I just double checked they are indeed 25.

He doesn't flinch, but I am also using the rice sock-- which he seems to really love.

I do hold his ear after each prick.

 

25 gauge?! That's like a harpoon!! ;-)

Just kidding, it's whatever works. I use 33 gauge so I imagine 25 to be huge, although I know it's really probably not. And good job on the testing so far. It sounds like you are getting the hang of it pretty quickly, and Gator's definitely given you some useful tips.