new to all of this.....

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Jade77, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Hello Everyone...my name is Jade and my 11 year old boy Boots was diagnosed with diabetes just this afternoon and my mind is reeling...not only from the cost (which is sounding like it's WAY beyond my means) but all the things I will have to do to keep him healthy..I'm a single mom who works full-time (sometimes more.) From what my vet told me, I will have to put him on expensive insulin, along with weekly vet visits to check his levels. My vet visit today was 200 dollars, so I am looking at 200 every week til the dr can "get in under control." And then all the shots at home, the monitoring... We did also have the horrible conversation about putting him down, but that thought is so painful that I can barely process it...but I just don't see any other way! 1000 dollars a month is so far out of my reach...does anyone have any advice for me?
     
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hello Jade and your sugardude Boots and welcome to the FDMB, the best place in the universe to help your diabetic cat.

    Yes, this can be pretty overwhelming. We can help save you some money. You do not need to pay your vet $200 a week to get your cat regulated. You can learn to home test and we have helped many people to do that.

    The insulin will cost you some money. A vial of Lantus can last 4-6 months with proper care. We will tell you how.
    The manufacturer of Lantus, a very good insulin for cats, has a Savings Card program for the Solostar pens, $25 for the first 6 prescriptions.

    You will have some up front costs to treat your cat's diabetes. A human glucometer, insulin syringes, lancets, test strips, the insulin.

    It will NOT cost you $1000 a month to treat your cat's diabetes.

    Where do you live? US, Canada? International? country, state/province would be nice to share.

    Take a deep breath, hold, release, take a deep breath, hold, release, take a deep breath, hold, release.
     
  3. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I live in the US, on the east coast. Thank you so much for responding! This situation is heartbreaking. I left the vets office and asked her to give me a couple days to consider my options, because the mere thought of not having him around anymore kills me. The cost of the insulin is a lot less scary than the thought of paying the vet to monitor him every week for an undetermined amount of time..she wasn't very helpful either..she didn't even tell me what kind of food to switch him to until I decide what to do...though I have read on some of these threads that wet food seems to be at the top of the list.
     
  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi, I'm on the east coast myself, up in Massachusetts. Which state do you live in?

    There are 3 legs, so to speak, for treating feline diabetes.

    1. Low carb canned wet food.
    2. A good insulin. Lantus, Levimir, Prozinc.
    3. Home testing.

    Does Boots like canned food now? or does he prefer dry food?
    What is his current food? Brand and type.

    Many of us, including me, feed the Friskies pate style, Fancy Feast pate style or Wellness. These are all under 10% carbs and good for a diabetic cat. If you switch your cat to these low carb foods now, his BG (blood glucose) numbers can drop dramatically. It's a good first step in managing the diabetes before you even start the insulin.
     
  5. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I live in down south in Georgia. He does like wet food, he prefers it but I kept it to a minimum because he used to be very overweight, so I put him on Purina indoor formula and he has been on that for years. How long has your kitty been living with diabetes? I have a very close friend (we grew up together) who is a veterinary technician, and she says in her experience it's best to put the cat down... Im so lost on how to handle this.
     
  6. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    My sugarkitty Wink has had diabetes for about 10 months. Possibly longer. His former owners abandoned him when they decided they did not want to take care of him any more. He is a foster cat from my local animal shelter. Wink has been OTJ (off the juice, insulin being the juice) for 4 months now. He is what we call a diet controlled diabetic.

    He was totally unregulated at the cat shelter, huge flakes of dandruff, matted dull looking fur, severe diabetic neuropathy, always hungry. He was in the shelter for 4 and a half months before I took him in to foster.

    I switched this dry food addict from high carb dry Hill's W/D food to low carb wet food in about 3 weeks and that made a huge difference in his BG numbers.

    It was easy to learn to home test and I'm glad I did. It enabled me to feel confident about giving Wink his insulin shots and a sense of control as to what was going on.

    I definitely disagree with your vet tech friend. Diabetes is not a death sentence for cats or people. Like people, this is a very treatable condition.

    Our cats are our children too, just furry ones. We love them dearly. We have many diabetic cats here that live long, healthy lives. Some for many years, 4, 8, 10 years or more. As with humans, treatment for feline diabetes has come a long way in the last 5-10 years.

    It will mean some changes to your life. Changes to your routines and developing new routines to help Boots. We can help you all along the way. Won't you consider giving Boots a fighting chance?
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If you're willing to learn as much as you can, then act on it, your cat may live his normal lifespan.

    That vet tech has never been on this board and seen what diligent monitoring, appropriate food, and good insulin can do for a diabetic cat. The tech probably has seen folks who throw up their hands and give up.

    While you're considering your decision, if you aren't on insulin yet, a gradual switch over several days to low carb, high protein, canned or raw food, may drop his glucose 100 mg/dL. To understand why we recommend that, please go to Cat Info, a web site written by vet Dr Lisa Pierson. There's a printable food list there, too.

    Inexpensive foods include Friskies pates and Fancy Feast Classic pates.
     
  8. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Patches(GA) was diabetic for 4 years before I lost him to renal failure at 16. That was in 1990 long before FDMB and all the knowledge available now. We winged it and he had a great 4 years living with diabetes. Baby(GA) was diabetic for 5 1/2 years before I lost her to heart at the age of 18+. Hope was diabetic for 4 1/2 years before dx'd with a heart condition that for some reason put her into remission for the last 6 1/2 years. Mishka has been diabetic for close to 10 years, (Oct.), gets her two shots every day. I adopted MC at the age of 16 1/2, diabetic and was going to be euthanized. She turned 17 last May and is doing beautifully. Your vet tech friend is so wrong.......so very wrong. Low carb canned food, hometesting a must and a lifesaver, and insulin twice a day (hopefully Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc, never Humulin N) and your kitty can go on and live a long and normal life with a good chance of remission when using Lantus.

    FWIW, I adopted Hope, Mishka and MC because they were diabetic and needed a home. I would rather hear from a vet that a cat has diabetes than a cancer any day.

    None of mine have ever had curves done at a vet office. I give the vet the numbers but I also decide the dose after all these years. I know my cats better than a vet ever will and I know which ones spike the numbers up from vet stress and which ones don't. The more you read and learn the more you will understand. Ask questions here anytime and as many as you need to ask. It will all fall into place and become second hand in no time. You can do it cat_pet_icon and you will also create an amazing bond with Boots, more so than what you may have right now.
     
  9. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hello and welcome,

    Unfortunately it sounds like both the vet people you talked to are out of date. My vet told me curves at the vet were expensive and inaccurate and asked me to test at home.

    Putting your cat down would be such a shame since 84% of cats go into remission in the first six months with a low carb wet food, a good insulin like lantus, and home testing. Then they don't need insulin after that! Your kitty deserves that chance.

    First thing to do, is change his food to something like the inexpensive low carb friskies pâtés and get a cheap home test kit. That change alone can sometimes be enough. I am in the office today so I will let deb get you the shopping list.

    Wendy
     
  10. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Thank you all so much for all of this info. I went out late last night and got the friskies pate wet food, how much should I be giving him a day? Also, my biggest concern about home testing and insulin shots and all of that is I work 10 hours a day, sometimes closing my store then opening...my vet tech friend said that unless I can "go all out" and be available for all the things I have to do for him, it isn't going to do him any good. There are days I dont get home til 11pm,(and I leave at 12 in the afternoon) and I have to be up and out the door for another 10 hour day at 6 am.
     
  11. Chris & Cheshire

    Chris & Cheshire Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Hey Jade. My cat just got diagnosed on Friday, and I know how overwhelmed you're feeling... all too well.

    One thing that's missing from your post is what symptoms your cat was having and what his quality of life is like. If he's in really bad shape, maybe putting him down is the humane option, but I didn't get that impression from your posts. Please let us know what his symptoms are like.

    Unless he's in really bad health, I think you should at least try switching your cat to wet, low-carb food before you think about putting him down. What I've read around here, the low-carb food can make a huge difference, and if that's enough to improve his health then that's easy. There's a big list of all the canned food that's low-carb; I just went with Friskie's because it's cheap and available everywhere. Here's a link to the shopping list of low-carb foods, but normal humans probably only need the Fancy Feast and Friskies section (pasted in below).

    I'm trying home testing and it's a lot of time and work. It's very satisfying when it works, and it's frustrating when it doesn't. But to spend 20 minutes two times a day to *maybe* get one reading? And supposed to do that 4 or 8 times a day? AND keep the same schedule every day? That's not realistic for someone who works. Hopefully a better diet, occasional readings and some insulin (or not) will be enough to help my cat out.

    If money's tight, you might talk with your vet about trying the low-carb diet before starting insulin. Insulin ain't cheap, and there's a some expense and hassle that comes with it. I spent 90 on insulin, 10 on needles, 15 on glucose monitor, 10 on testing strips, 5 on lancets. It adds up, and then takes an hour or more a day. But they say it gets quicker and easier, so I'm trying it out for a while. But if the food works pretty well for my cat, you can bet that BG monitor is going in a drawer (and would eventually be donated to someone else on this board).

    It's just balancing what you're investing (time and money), and what your cat's quality of life is. Only you can know that balance.

    I work for a nursing company that does home health and hospice care (in the office, not as a nurse), but one thing you realize in that industry is that everyone and everything dies eventually. The question isn't whether you die, it's how you live. I think you do what you can - financially and emotionally - see what kind of quality of life your cat has, ask yourself, "Would I be okay living like that?", and then make decisions. If he's doing generally well but has occasional problems, maybe he's ok for now. If he's constantly sick or miserable, maybe not. Only you can know. But I think you at least try changing the food first since that's cheap and low-effort, and has a reasonable chance of showing some improvement.

    Low Carb Foods
    carbs in % - last number is phosphorus (Kidney disease cats need under 250 phosphorus)
    4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - beware of those that are not classics ...
    4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate -569
    2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate – 787
    4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate 823
    1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate – 369
    5% -fancy feast Tender beef feast pate -637
    5% -fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate -502
    5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate – 525
    4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate -598
    3% - fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate – 355
    5% -fancy feast salmon and shrimp feast -550
    4% -fancy feast kitten tender turkey feast -474
    5% - fancy feast kitten tender ocean whitefish feast - 689
    5% -fancy feast chunky chicken feast -637
    7% - fancy feast chunky turkey feast -624
    7% -fancy feast chunky chopped grill feast - 454
    8% - fancy feast Flaked chicken and tuna feast - 434
    0% - fancy feast Flaked fish and shrimp feast - 701
    8% - fancy feast Flaked Salmon and whitefish feast - 458
    7% - fancy feast Flaked Trout feast-395

    8% - Friskies flaked with tuna and egg 415
    9% - Friskies Poultry platter – 438
    5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Liver entree 241
    5% - Friskies Special diet Turkey and Giblets dinner pate 189
    5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Chicken Entree pate 242
    4% - Friskies Special Diet Whitefish dinner 351
    7% - Friskies Special Diet with Salmon 228
    7% - Friskies Salmon dinner classic pate 499
    8% - Friskies Turkey and Giblets dinner 338
    8% - Friskies Supreme Supper 416
    6% - Friskies Mariner's Catch 393
     
  12. RobinCot

    RobinCot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Welcome Jade

    I too am away from home for ten hours a day - the good news is that insulin is given every 12 hours. I give shot at 6:30 am, leave house at 7am and am back before the 6:30 pm shot. If you give the am shot before you leave at Noon, say 11:45 am then the pm shot would be before midnight at 11:45 pm.

    It seems so overwhelming right now but it gets easy and will become as much a part of your life as owning a cat. There is no reason to put the cat down. There are a lot of success stories here and people who will talk you through every little detail. First thing though is the diet - take away all dry food and get on low carb food. Invest in testing supplies and a good insulin and then there is not need for costly vet visits. It will not cost you $1,000 a month!

    I am fostering a 9 year old kitty who was dumped at the shelter because he was sick. He's a healthy sugarcat now and the routine is just another part of my day now, and I've only been doing it since May. It is amazing how much your cat will also become accustomed to the new routine.

    We can help you and your cat continue to have a loving and healthy life.
     
  13. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Welcome to FDMB :)

    I'm pretty new myself, but have come to rely on the people here more than my vet now.

    It deeply saddens me to hear a vet tech be so quick to just dismiss and advise to euthanize.

    Food, insulin, and home testing are the 3 major points in regulating your kitty and increasing the possibility of remission.

    Going to the vet for curves is honestly just a waste of time and money because the poor kitty is sooo stressed going that his BG numbers will automatically be high and if the vet recommends a dose increase based on that, you could have more issues. Testing at home, where kitty is comfortable and relaxed, gives you much more accurate readings.

    The initial cost is not too bad. The Lantus pen savings is great...WalMart is also great for a meter, syringes, lancets, and strips. I use the ReliOn Confirm meter, and actually just purchased strips through the ADW link at the top (Arkray makes the WalMart ReliOn meters, so the strips are interchangeable).

    Most of us feed Fancy Feast and Friskees, and use freeze dried chicken and shrimp for treats. Even boiling a chicken breast, letting it cool, and tearing it to treat size is good too.

    Scheduling might be a bit challenging at first, but it is doable and there is some flexibility as well.

    The more you read here, plus more people chiming in, the more you will understand that as overwhelming as it seems, it's completely doable. I would highly recommend your vet tech friend to come on over here too if nothing else to just see the success stories.

    :D
     
  14. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Unless the cat has other serious medical problems, there is no reason to say goodbye to the kitty. I adopted my Patches over eight years ago as an already being treated diabetic cat and she is still going strong.
     
  15. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Here is the link to the new member shopping list that Wendy wanted me to post.

    Once you get the hang of it, testing only takes a couple of minutes. Yes, it will take longer when you are new and haven't got the routine down and your cat is not co-operating. I can test Wink in less than 3 minutes. That includes getting out the testing supplies, setting them up, warming his ear, poking, test, hold ear to stop bruising, Neosporin dab, putting the testing supplies away and giving Wink and the rest of my gang their treats.

    To know how much food to feed your cat we need to know his weight. Unregulated diabetic cats may need up to 50% more calories. An average cat needs (15 cals/pound) +70. So a ten pound cat would need 220 calories or about 1 1/4 cans of the 5.5 oz Friskies. That same 10 pound unregulated diabetic cat might need 330 calories so about 2 5.5 oz cans of Friskies a day.

    So how much does Boots weigh?

    What are his symptoms of diabetes?

    Lantus Savings Card program
     
  16. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome! I just wanted to share my experience with Bandit, to help you get some ideas of how to help manage Boots' diabetes working full time. It is definitely do-able! I'm not going to lie, I was super stressed and freaked out the first couple weeks, but once you settle into the routine, treating the diabetes properly is not hard at all, even when working full time. With Lantus or Levemir, cats are far more likely than not to go into remission (meaning no more shots--they are diet controlled) if you feed the right diet and adjust the dose by testing at least 3 times a day. Bandit has been in remission for nearly four years now, and he is healthier today because of the diet change than he was before he had diabetes!

    I was also pretty broke when Bandit was diagnosed, but I was fortunate that my vet was up to date with her feline diabetes knowledge and did not recommend unnecessary (and inaccurate) office testing. She gave me a list of low carb, canned foods in different price ranges and had me pick one I could afford. The only major cost was the insulin, but I would definitely sign up for the Lantus savings card and get your insulin that way! http://www.lantus.com/sign-up/offers.aspx. A pack of 5 pens ($25 with the plan) will last you nearly a year, and most cats go into remission by then if you are adjusting the dose according to your home tests. Syringes are about $13 a box at Walmart, and the Walmart Relion meters are great meters to use and not too expensive.
     
  17. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Boots only weighs 11 pounds now...he had pretty severe weightloss over the last 6 months. He used to weigh closer to 17 pounds...he's a big boy with a larger structure. The only thing I noticed that made me know something was wrong was when he started to pee all over my house (COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for my well behaved kitty.) Then I noticed mass amounts of fruit flies around the litter box, and also how I found the spots he was urinating on the carpet. Then I noticed that he was drinking a lot more than usual, his coat started to look terrible, he has a lot of dandruff now, and he has no energy. All he does is lay on the floor, or go drink water. I had noticed a little vomiting recently, but I have two cats and I thought maybe the occasional treats I fed them might be upsetting the other's stomach ( she's had the issue before) and now Im beginning to wonder if it was actually him...when the dr gave me his glucose levels she said he was above 500, so diet alone would do nothing for him.
     
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Diet alone may not be the entire solution, but it's a good start. Many cats can drop 100 or more points with a change in diet.

    Why don't your try giving him some low-carb wet food, like the Friskies pate style of the Fancy Feast pate style and see how he does.

    He'll probably need to eat at least 2 5.5 ounce cans of the Friskies. It's best if you can split it up into mini-meals. Say, 1/2 a can, 4 times a day.

    How about trying that diet change for a week?
     
  19. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I started that last night actually. I don't want to give up on him...he has been my life companion since I found him when he was a little baby kitten. But I am very intimidated by all the medical stuff that goes along with this, and I'm scared I will screw up and end up doing more damage to him..
     
  20. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, you did say that. That's good. Does he like the Friskies? Is he eating well?

    The testing and giving shots can be scary. Some people don't think they could ever do that to their cat. It becomes easier with time.

    We can help you to keep him safe and not "screw up and end up doing more damage to him". The next step would be to learn to home test. It's the absolute best way to keep him safe.

    Do you think you would be interested in learning to home test?
     
  21. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    He is loving it. He has always been a fan of the wet food, so transitioning to that will probably be the easiest part of this. And I'm definitely interested in home testing, but have no idea where to start.
     
  22. pixiesmom

    pixiesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Hi Jade... I am not here to offer you the expert advice that I have received from this board over the past two weeks since my Pixie was diagnosed.
    But if there is anything I can do is to tell you that you are in the right place and the people on this board are here to help
    and walk you through everything every step of the way.
    They get back to you quickly and every question is important no matter how insignificant you may think it is.
    My Pixie is a nasty little thing when you poke at him, but I am now successfully testing him at home and even doing it WITHOUT a glass of wine by my side.
    (That was a MAJOR accomplishment for me)
    One thing I am still trying to learn from all of this is that it is not going to be fixed or regulated overnight, maybe not even over a couple weeks.
    It takes time and cannot be rushed. (I am still working on that)
    Good luck and keep posting....it will help you and your kitty out tremendously!
     
  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yeah! on Boots loving the canned food. That is wonderful. I'm glad it was so easy for you to transition him to the low carb canned food because that can be one of the most difficult parts.

    My foster cat Wink was a dry food addict. It took many weeks and intensive effort to get him to switch to the canned. He loves it now, but if there is a scrap of carb loaded food, he will get it. He has jumped up on the dining room table and started to eat my breakfast cereal. All in the time it took me to go pour myself a glass of OJ. ohmygod_smile

    There are 2 wonderful articles on home testing. Lots of information there so try not to get overwhelmed with the amount of data. Many people have learned to home test from these articles. Read them over and then come back with questions.

    This one is on the how to's of home testing with tips, tricks, videos to watch. How to home test links

    This one is on the psychology of home testing or how to get your cat to be more accepting of the process. ear testing psychology

    There are also members and other people that help people to learn to home test. Not sure where exactly in Georgia you live. If you let me know, we can try and see if there is a member that would be willing to come to your house to show you how.

    You will need some basic supplies to home test. Most of us here use human glucometers instead of the pet specific ones. These human meters are a fraction of the cost of the pet specific meters and the test strips cost so much less also.

    1. You can go to your local Wal-Mart and buy a Relion Confirm or Micro glucometer for about $14.98.
    2. You need to pick up matching test strips for that meter, $35.88 for 100, $19.88 for 50.
    3. You will need lancets for poking the ear. Please get the ones labeled "for alternate site testing". They have a larger pin for pricking. You want 25-28 gauge if you can find them. Box of 100 $3.74
    4. Pick up some ketone urine test strips. $6.64 for 50 strips.
    5. A couple of cans of Fancy Feast gravy lovers cat food for your hypo toolkit.
    6. Some triple antibiotic ointment with pain relief. The gel or ointment, not the cream version. $4.44
    7. Some freeze dried pure protein treats for test time. Like Pure Bites if they have them. My Wal-Mart never does so I go to PetSmart or Petco and get the large bag for dogs and break them into smaller pieces.
    8. Some chocolate for you. ;-)
    9. Some rice or lentils or beans to put in an old sock to help warm the ear.
    10. A sharps container. you can use a 2 liter soda bottle, empty laundry soap container. Use your imagination for a container.
    11. Some simple sugar like karo syrup of honey or maple syrup. For your hypo tool kit.

    Get your cat Boots used to having his ears touched and rubbed. Do that several times a day. A dozen or more if he will let you. Whenever you think of it. That is step one in getting your cat used to home testing.

    I've given you a lot of information here. Please come back and ask any questions you may have.
     
  24. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  25. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Boots absolutely hates it when anyone touches his ears or his tail, so I think that will be the most difficult part for me. Also what is a "hypo" kit? I really know almost nothing about diabetes, human or animal. I will have to start researching in what little spare time I have. I am VERY tight on money for the next 2 weeks (we spent pretty much everything we had for the diagnosis) will he be okay if I just use the wet food until I get paid in two weeks? I am so very glad I found this site!
     
  26. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Also I live in northern GA, Woodstock to be exact, it's about 40 mins north of Atlanta.
     
  27. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Another question...why is he peeing outside the littler box because of this, does anyone know? The vet didn't address that with me, and it's a BIG prob in my house. Not only because I have a two year old running around, but because I have found nests of fruit flies in the carpet, even after I cleaned the spot, and the litterbox is FULL of them. And if anyone else dealt with this problem, how did you take care of them? I have been cleaning like crazy every day, and using raid (sparingly) when necessary because they are everywhere
     
  28. Julia & Bandit

    Julia & Bandit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If he's handling the wet food ok without any issues, then I would just stick to that. We usually recommend a slow transition to prevent gastrointestinal upset which can happen with some cats, but most cats are just fine with the switch and don't have any issues. I wouldn't reintroduce dry food into the mix after the fact. The goal is to nix the dry food completely.

    Diabetic cats urinate more frequently when their blood sugar is unregulated--that's why you're seeing the peeing outside of the box. He probably is having some difficulty holding it until he can make it to the box. His urine is also full of glucose, hence the fruit flies. This will stop once his blood sugar gets under control, but it may take a little time. In the meantime, how many litter boxes do you have? I would recommend putting a few extra around your house so that he has a better chance of making it to the box. If he's showing signs of diabetic neuropathy (when a cat has trouble walking because of uncontrolled diabetes), he also may be having a bit of difficulty getting in and out of the box. A litter pan like this one helps a great deal in that case.
     
  29. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    A hypo kit is some high carb (HC) food, a simple sugar, and other goodies to raise the BG (blood glucose) levels of your cat up, in cases where he has gone too low. Not something you need to be concerned with since your cat Boots is not yet on insulin.

    IN CASE OF EMERGENCY - YOUR HYPO KIT
    Put together NOW the following items and put in an easily accessible place!
    •Phone number of your vet
    •Phone number, address and map/directions to your nearest emergency vet (or phone number of the cab company and some cash/credit card)
    •Karo syrup, honey or corn syrup
    •High carb canned food with gravy – 2-3 cans
    •Some favourite treats
    •Spare pack of 25 blood glucose strips
    •Coffee for you ;)


    Please check your messages for a PM from me. Top of board, upper left, click on new messages.
     
  30. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Diet is fine for now but you should pick up some urine ketone test strips to use meantime. They are only like $6 from walmart . Diabetic ketoacidosis is a very serious condition and expensive to treat and is more likely to occur with an unregulated cat.

    Try here to see if you can get a free meter and kit to start out : http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=15
    You can test his paw pads if he is ok with his feet being touched?

    Wendy
     
  31. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    He is fine with paws, just not when I try to click his nails. How do you test urine? Is there a resource in here to inform me on this more, and what I am looking for in his urine as well?
     
  32. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    You all have beautiful cat's, by the way :) I'd upload a pic of my Boots, bit I'm not sure how. He's a black and brown tabby with white socks in front, and white boots on his hind legs, thus the name. He's had a prettier coat in the recent past, and hopefully I can get him feeling better and getting it healthy looking again.
     
  33. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    cats, not "cat's"
     
  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Some supplies are on their way to Jade.

    The savings card program is here: lantus savings card program You sign up as if you were the guardian for a child. You will need to find a pharmacy that will sell the pens individually. Some people have said their local Target will do this. Some people have had luck with Wal-Mart being willing to sell a single pen while other people have not had luck. You may need to call around.

    Your prescription from the vet needs to say for the Lantus Solostar pen, not the 10mL vial.
    I don't know if your state requires a prescription for insulin syringes. You can use the Relion 3/10 cc, 30 gauge, 5/16" needle with half unit markings on the syringe barrel. You want to use syringes, not the pen needle tips that come with the solostar pens.

    DCIN is a non-profit that can sometimes help with financially strapped diabetic cat owners. You may want to contact them for financial assistance. Budgets are tight everywhere. Don't know if they will be able to help.
     
  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Click on the underlined blue link for Urine testing tips For when those ketone testing strips arrive.
     
  36. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
  37. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    So because of the odd scrip I got from the dr, do I need to find another vet to get the insulin that he needs, or should I use what she prescribed?
     
  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    What insulin did your vet prescribe? I don't think you ever told us.
    How is the prescription written?

    You should be able to go back to the vet and request the prescription be rewritten for the Lantus Solostar pen.

    Tell your vet, that is what you want to use.
     
  39. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    She gave me Glargine insulin, which I just googled to spell check, and it seems like it is the Lantus that you are talking about, but it's a 100ml bottle, not pens.
     
  40. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Yes Glargine is Lantus.

    The 10 mL, 1000 unit bottle may lose effectiveness before you use all of it; the 3 mL 300 unit pens often can be used completely, hence the rational for getting the pens - no waste.

    You use a U-100 insyulin syringe to withdraw the insulin from the pens just like you use them to withdraw from a vial. You do not need the special needles for the pens.
     
  41. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Now you have a prescription for the Lantus (glargine) but have not filled it yet, correct?

    I would suggest calling the vets office and having them rewrite the prescription for the Lantus Solostar pens. Tell them it's a cost issue and the pens are less expensive.

    Do you have a prescription for the insulin syringes too? Not sure if that is required in Georgia or not.
     
  42. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    No I have not filled it as of yet. She did not give me a prescription for syringes. I am so confused my all the numbers and technical terms...which is why Im so worried I wont be any good at this. I just don't know anything about the disease, or all the ml/cc/U stuff I see everywhere..also what is the hyp kit used for? What will my cat do that will necessitate it's use? Will he die if Im not home to use it when he needs it?
     
  43. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Depending on the state you are in, you may not need a prescription for syringes; you don't in Ohio.

    U-100 means there are 100 units of insulin in 1 milliliter of fluid.

    Lantus is a U-100 insulin.

    Lantus comes in vials of 10 milliliters (1,000 units) and pens of 3 milliliters (300 units).

    A dose of 1 unit twice a day would finish a vial in 500 days and a pen in 150 days.
    A dose of 2 units twice a day would finish a vial in 250 days and a pen in 75 days.
     
  44. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    well the scrip says to give one unit twice daily...wouldn't that be a huge waste of product is the shelf life is only a month?? I'd only use some of it before I have to toss the rest.
     
  45. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Shelf life is a month. Fridge life is up to six months (not in the door though). Pens are better because they last even longer since you only "open" one at a time and you dont need to worry about dropping them ( it happens)

    Wendy
     
  46. Just-As-Appy

    Just-As-Appy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    If you keep the vial in the fridge and treat it gently (no shaking or rolling - or dropping!), and don't inject air into the insulin, it will last considerably longer than a month. However, at 2 units a day it is likely that you will not use it up before it begins to lose potency. I used to sell a pen to a nearby regular diabetic (I had a high dose cat so used it up quickly) - I think she needed 3 until her cat went into remission. Not sure if there is a high dose cat near you and you might be able to make a similar arrangement. Many of them use Levemir, but it is also a good long acting insulin and would serve your needs as well.
     
  47. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    So is the general opinion here that the pens would be better than the vial he was prescribed? I want this to be as foolproof as possible, and to waste as little as possible, because Im going to have to make some miracles happen to afford 200 a month for insulin. But I'm going to do it because my boy is worth it.
     
  48. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Yes, the pens would be better - less waste. You'll want to get the Lantus savings card for the pens which takes the cost down.

    And again - it won't be $200/month for insulin - you can keep it refrigerated and it lasts longer
     
  49. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    The pen will last you up to six months. So thats $200 for 6 months.
     
  50. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Thank you all again for all this info...I hope I am not being annoying with all my questions.
     
  51. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Its a lot of information to digest, so ask away - we'll keep answering. Sometimes, rephrasing it makes it more understandable.

    In the upper right above the posts, in a light blue band, there is a FAQ link which explains a lot about how to just use the message board.

    We have a glossary here.
     
  52. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I don't know if anyone will see this but I am concerned about Boots...he ate fine when I first began the wet food, (today was day 3) but he hasn't eaten a thing all day. I tried everything, even offering him dry food, his favorite treats, sliced deli meat...nothing. Not much water either, though I JUST got him to drink some a few minutes ago when I got home from work. Is this cause for concern?
     
  53. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Your friend is not correct. My work schedule can be eratic, but I have been able to care for 4 diabetic cats.

    For the food, I usually feed 1/2 can per meal, but right now, if your cat's glucose levels are not under control, you will probably have to feed more. An unregulated cat's body does not process food correctly and they will need extra food. Once you get the BG levels under control, you will also see a decrease in the appetite.

    If you hometest, you can work with an inconsistant schedule. While a 12/12 schedule for insulin is best, if you are hometesting, you can go as low as 10 hours between doses. But only if the BG level is high enough to make it safe to give insulin
     
  54. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You can ask us all of the questions you want and need to. That is why we are here.
    :mrgreen:

    Where is Georgia do you live?
     
  55. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I live in Woodstock, it's about 40 minutes or so north of Atlanta. Food is an issue right now, he didn't eat a single bite of food yesterday, and today is not looking much better :/ Hardly any water either. My fiance has also been trying to get him to eat, since I send so much time at work right now.
     
  56. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If he doesn't eat for 2 or more days, the fat breakdown for calories may result in hepatic lipidosis. Fat breakdown overwhelms the liver and causes severe metabolic problems which can be fatal.

    Try any of these to entice eating:
    warming the canned food
    hand feeding
    syringe feeding
    Sprinkle of Parmesan cheese on the food
    Sprinkle dried fish flakes on the food (Asian stores often have bonito flakes)
    Cooked or raw bits of chicken

    Active play of 15-20 minutes may stimulate eating by initiating the hunt, catch, kill, eat behavior cycle.
     
  57. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok here are some tips (scroll down the page) for getting him to eat.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NSWUx2ak7wcs2_G5TXr7BhPMrU7CVmW_3ouKPTUQhhA/pub


    Try everything you can think of, even the old dry food, he shouldnt go two days without eating. Also you need to check him for ketones. Does his breath smell of nail varnish remover?

    Ask your fiance to go to any pharmacy incl walmart and ask for urine ketone test strips and lets test his pee. We dont want DKA developing as it is very serious and expensive to treat.
     
  58. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    As soon as I got home I boiled a chicken breast and was able to get him to eat about a third of it, and I'm going to try to get him to eat a little more before I go to bed. His breath doesn't smell of anything out of the ordinary, just like normal kitty breath. I feel like I am hovering now, watching him like a hawk for anything, and whenever he is sleeping I check to make sure he is breathing every half an hour. I feel so badly for him.
     
  59. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
  60. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok that's good he ate but you do really need to get those test strips. DKA can develop fast and by the time you smell ketones it can be very late. DKA is very serious and expensive and hard to treat...


    Second, have you picked up the insulin yet .. Or home testing stuff? We need to know what his blood is like and see if you need to start the insulin.

    Wendy
     
  61. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I do have test strips now (thank you so much Deb) but Im not sure how to test him. And I do not have insulin, and now I don't know when I will..unfortunately I did the math and because I have just started a new job I will have no money except for rent and top ramen for two weeks. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I am broke...which makes me sad. Most people have a couple hundred extra dollars they can spend on things...but by the time my rent and necessary bills are paid I only have about 100 dollars, and I still have my toddler to provide for as well. I'm feeling very hopeless for my cat.
     
  62. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I read the little booklet that comes in the bottle of urine testing strips, but I am not sure of how to collect a urine sample from him
     
  63. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Let's get you home testing now that the supplies have arrived.

    Here is a link to how to test your cat with lots of great tips. testing tips

    Read this over and then come back with questions.

    We are doing one step at a time for now. We'll figure out how to get you insulin a bit later.
     
  64. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    How do I test the urine?
     
  65. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  66. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Okay, I attempted the poke and was only successful at pissing off my cat, and I have to leave for work in about 15 minutes, so the poking will have to wait...luckily tomorrow is my day off, so I will have some time to dedicate to this. I also have been watching for him to go to his box to pee, but he isn't drinking a whole lot of water right now either. I tried to test urine in the box ( I know it's his because it's right where he always pees in the box and the clump is full of fruit flies) bit only a small dot of color showed up, and Im afraid that way is too inaccurate... my fiance said he would follow him around today when he goes that way with a strip and test that himself, but he will not poke him. He made that one very clear.
     
  67. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Did you read the urine testing tips I gave? If he is ok with it then either make a small tray out of foil and shove it under him when he pees, or a ladle. If not, then cover the tray with plastic wrap and sprinkle a little litter on it and try that. Other tips are in my link above.

    Blood testing, sounds like you need to work him up gradually. First spend a day or two rubbing his ears and giving him treats and no poke, just a treat every time. Then try poking, three tries and call it quits for a few hours. And give a treat.

    Also did you get any blood at all? We will see if we can refine your technique a bit. Did you use the lancet device or free hand it? What did you put behind the ear to press against? What size lancet did you use do you know?

    Wendy
     
  68. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I did, but he didn't urinate at all between the time they arrived and the time I had to leave for work. I spent that few hours following him room to room, even bedrooms in case he decided to pee on the carpet again instead of his box. And once I left my fiance put him in your larger bathroom with some water and some chicken and a nice soft bed for a few hours to see if he would pee in an empty box (even the floor would have beer fine at this point) but nothing. He couldn't really follow him around like I did because he has our daughter to chase. And will will not use the box if there is a foreign object in it..I dropped a dryer sheet in there once and he pooped on the tile next to the box so he didn't have to go near the sheet. And now I'm home and watching for him to go to the box and he hasn't urinated as of yet, though I'm on the lookout. I'm wondering if I should let him sleep in the bathroom tonight, pee on the time, and get a sample from that? He's just eating and drinking terribly. He LOVES chicken and turkey meat, and he will only nibble at it.

    I think I got a tiny spot of blood, but really nothing at all. I'm unclear really of the best place to poke. I didn't use a device, just freehand. I put a small, soft washcloth that used to be for my daughter, folded up, behind his ear. and I did try warming the area as well. He was very combative with me because he hates it when people touch hem, and he does bite and claw and attempt to maim when someone starts messing with them or tries to put a needle in him. My vet from where I used to live had to put him in one of those cat bags to give him his shots. He is a dramatic little guy.
     
  69. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    It's important that he eats, so give him more of that turkey etc.

    Freehanding is fine. The tips deb gave show a photo of where to poke on the ear. Does he have dark ears? You could try to shine a small flashlight behind them and you will see the ear vein then, it goes all the way around the ear. You want to poke the ear on the top surface (unless he has long furry ears when underside may be easier), towards the top of the ear, and between that vein and the outer edge of the ear. The photo in debs tips shows it better.

    First apply a small dab of neosporin to the ear to help the blood stop from soaking into the fur. then Try going in at a 45 degree angle and putting something hard behind the ear to press against like a pill bottle lid.
    Try also two pokes beside each other and hold the ear firmly just below the pokes to help the blood well up (blood flows from the top point of the ear downward )
    I am assuming your lancets are too fine as well, you might want to pop out and get 28g or 29g ones instead.

    What kind of meter are you using? Some need more blood than others.

    Wendy
     
  70. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    You could replace his litter with lentils, or a non clumping type of litter. The urine tips explain how you can use non clumping litter to test.
     
  71. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    He didn't urinate at all last night either :/ I watched him drink water a few times, but no pee. Is this cause for concern?
     
  72. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Is he dehydrated?

    If he is dehydrated, you may need to get fluids from the vet or take him to the vet immediately for fluids to be given.

    Second possibility. Is he using the litter box, straining but nothing is coming out? Blocked urethra. Emergency visit to the closest 24 hour vet clinic.
     
  73. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Or he is peeing somewhere else in the house.. cats that are uncontrolled diabetic tend to drink a lot and pee a lot, and the drinking makes it hard for them to get to the litter box in time. You might want to wander round the house and sniff and feel the carpet.

    Or maybe following him around all the time is putting him of?

    Wendy
     
  74. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I was finally able to get urine from him..I think it was a little old, I was showering and getting my daughter ready for the day while he went, I assume. I used a test strip and it was almost the darkest color reading compared to the chart on the bottle
     
  75. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    And a vet is just not a possibility for us at this time. I am no where NEAR able to pay a vet bill, which is why I was considering euthanasia in the first place. The diagnosis alone left us in quite a bad spot. :/ I can handle home testing, and hopefully soon a bottle of insulin, but if emergencies come up I just can't pay those bills. I struggle to pay the bills at home as it is.
     
  76. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hang on, these are urine ketone test strips right, not urine sugar test strips? What do they say on them?
     
  77. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    yes. The ketone test strips is what I was talking about. The colors range from neutral to a dark maroon (dark maroon being very high) and he is the color right next to the darkest maroon. That's bad, isn't it..?
     
  78. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Yes! This is life threatening. I would advise you call the vet right now if you can.but otherwise..

    How is he behaving? Can you smell nail varnish remover on his breath? Is he eating and behaving normally?

    Test the strip on your own pee right now to see if it is the strip or not cos you said it was old? And confirm for me what the brand and name of the strips is.

    Wendy
     
  79. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Two other possibilities.

    1. The urine is concentrated. You said he had not peed in a long time.
    2. You did not read the Urine Ketone test strip quickly enough. It needs to be read and compared against the chart on the bottle of strips within 15 seconds.

    The bottle of Urine Ketone Test Strips should not be old. She just got them from Wal-Mart this week.
     
  80. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I put the strip in the pee and read it right away. It immediately turned orange. I meant the urine was old. I had stopped following him for a couple hours and he peed on the bathroom floor. When I noticed I used a strip before I cleaned it up. So I didn't know if because the urine was possibly an hour or two old, if that would give me a mis-read. The strips are brand new.

    I cannot take him to the vet. There are no vets in the area who make payment arrangements, you pay on the spot or dont get treatment. I called around when I first noticed he was acting funny and knew he needed to see a vet. Having an unexpected child really put strain on money. I was always able to swing the occasional visit before she came, but on a coffee house hourly salary you just don't make enough to support more than yourself.

    He is lethargic..not doing anything byt sleeping or lying on the couch with me, letting me stroke his back and cuddle with him. His breath smells like it always has, no nail polish-like odor, and he has been eating small amounts of boiled chicken breast I made for him because he lost interest in the wet food he loves so much. The strips are relion ketone test strips, it says reagent strips, 15 second test.
     
  81. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok did you test yourself? Did you time exactly 15 seconds?

    If it is dka you need to keep feeding him and getting fluid into him as often as you can, and we need to start him on insulin ASAP .. IF we can get him through this.

    So go feed him and give him the water from a tuna can or broth (no onions) something to see if you can get him drink to flush out the ketones. You want to do this hourly.

    Then come back and check out this board to see if you can get some free inslin and / or help from DCIN.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=15

    Wendy
     
  82. MJ+Donovan

    MJ+Donovan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I or possibly someone else here would be happy to overnight you a Lantus pen. Just say the word!

    MJ
     
  83. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I did not test my own urine, should I? I took some chicken broth and mixed it with water and he seems to want to drink that, but I won't be here all day, as usual. I have to work another 10 hour day, and my fiance doesn't get home til mid day. There just isn't someone here at all times to make sure he's eating and drinking. He isn't doing well at all. I can tell he is very unhappy and sick
     
  84. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Test your own urine quick to see how it compares? Did you test him for ketones and his blood sugar this morning?

    Then
    Syringe feed him a lot of food and water before you go.
    Leave out a variety of his favourite foods and lots of water for him while you are gone
    Make sure your fiance does the syringe feed at lunch too

    Wendy
     
  85. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    And definately take up someones offer of the free lantus. That may save his life. Send MJ a PM with your address. Ask her for a few syringes too.

    Wendy
     
  86. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    As Marje said elsewhere, we do not prescribe insulin. She needs to have a prescription from her vet for Lantus insulin before anyone ships it to her.
     
  87. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    You know what you need to do, he really needs to be at the vet now or he likely will not make it! He is suffering.

    If you really cannot take him then lots of regular food, water and insulin may pull him through if you are lucky.

    Wendy
     
  88. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I understand he needs to be taken to the vet. It isn't that I don't want to spend the money. It's that I don't have the money. I'm doing the best I can, and trying to get him to eat and drink as much as possible.
     
  89. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    There is more you can do - he really really needs the insulin

    1. call your vet and get a prescription for insulin and ask for some free syringes for it too ie humalin is cheap I think $25. and pick it up from pharmacy this morning.

    2. test him for ketones and blood this morning.

    Feed and water hourly.

    Wendy
     
  90. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I got a PM from Jade. Boots is still hanging on - he is a fighter. He is eating and drinking on his own without the syringe, as long as she strokes him at the same time (Enjoyed that as a kitten).

    She is thinking about home testing but is nervous about it - he doesnt like his ears touched so she is going to try the paw pads instead.

    Also her friend has a small bottle of ?Humalin? ( Jade please confirm this!!!) that she is going to give her. Can someone advise on dose?

    Jade - make sure your friend gives some syringes and let us know what kind they are (size etc) so we can calculate how much to give
    . But we totally have to home test first as we dont know what his blood sugar is like!!

    She is having issues also testing for ketones because she tried the aquarium gravel and he peed on the carpet instead. She is now trying cling wrap.


    Wendy
     
  91. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    It is humulin insulin. The needle gauge is 31 the length is 8mm, short needle.
     
  92. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    is it a u-100 or u-40 syringe?

    how did the blood test go? seriously - you can do this! it will be fine! Did u watch the video link?
     
  93. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Success! Got a blood test! Still no pee though. He hasnt gone. His glucose level was 443, which is lower than last week. The syringe is a U-100. Im ready to give him insulin! How much though? Just the one unit?
     
  94. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    good job! :) Feed him right now and hold off on the insulin a sec - we dont want to overdose till i confirm a starting dose - I need to know what type is it Humalin R or N? What does the bottle say?

    Once you dose, it will be very important to get another test in a few hours to make sure he isnt dropping too low. At what time depends on whether the insulin is R or N so please let me know.

    Do you have syrup or honey in the house?

    Wendy
     
  95. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I fed him already, he just ate about a 1/4 cup of chopped chicken. Its humulin N and yes, I do have Karo light corn syrup.
     
  96. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    You're still getting testing under your belt along with everything else, so I'd go with the 1 unit for now.
    Then, try to get a test around +3 to +4 hours later, the expected lowest glucose level (aka nadir) to see how its doing.

    Humulin N lasts 6-8 hours in the cat. This means that optimal control may be obtained if you test and shoot about every 8 hours. This is a noxious schedule, so if you can switch to Lantus/Levemir/ProZinc (each lasting roughly 12 hours), that would be better.

    Also, pick up all food about 5 6-7 hours after a shot, so it doesn't boost numbers into the stratosphere.
     
  97. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok I agree with BJ. Give him 1 unit but promise me you will get a test in 3 hours. We want to see how its working so we can adjust the dose tomorrow if need be.. we might need to adjust up up or down!


    Wendy
     
  98. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    And let me know what the result is because I will worry!!
     
  99. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Because of the recent DKA, if you can give insulin about every 8 hours (can be 8.5 hr over night, then 7 3/4 hr, and 7 3/4 hr), it will be better, at least until you can get a longer acting insulin.
     
  100. Jade77

    Jade77 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    I will get a new blood test between 8 and 9 pm EST I promise. It was a little difficult at first, but you were all correct, it's not near as difficult as I thought. But getting the blood when no one is here to help hold him down is going to be a hurdle. The insulin was a success, my friend did the shot so I could watch exactly how she did it, and it looks even easier. He is actually eating twice as much as yesterday, he ate a little while we gave him the shot, and I have taken all food and wont offer more til 11pm tonight. Still plenty of water out though. My friend says she only gives her dog this insulin every 12 hours, why should I do 8? I am not being sassy, I swear. I just like to understand the whys of everything. Otherwise I dont truly understand. And I don't want to overdose him, because I dont even know what that would do. What is the karo syrup for? What would happen that I need to use it? And I will post the result ASAP, right after I get it from him. Thank you all so much...you are saving my boy's life. I could just cry, Im so happy to have so much help and advice and expertise.
     

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