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Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by wayleng, Jun 13, 2010.

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  1. wayleng

    wayleng Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Hi - My name is Charlene and my cat, Casper, was diagnosed back in February. She had gotten really sick (ketones in her urine) and spent 4 days in the hospital. She did great when we brought her home. We were prescribed 1u of Lantus 2x/day and we switched her food over to Purina DM dry (she wouldn't touch the wet). It took us about 2 weeks to get our monitor, but have essentially been testing her glucose levels twice a day since. The readings we got were wonderful - usually around 120, but sometimes lower. It was so nice to have our Casper back to her normal self.

    Fast forward to the beginning of May, we noticed that she started going after our other cat's wet food, with a resulting mild elevation in her glucose levels. Although knowing what I know now, her levels were still okay (never over 150). Since she now seemed to want wet food, we decided to switch both cats over to Purina DM wet. Both cats took to the food at first, and Casper's level dropped back down to the 120/130 ranged - until a couple of weeks ago. All of the sudden, her glucose levels started elevating into the 200s and then the 300s. The first thing we did was go out and get a new bottle of Lantus, thinking that maybe we had lost the stability on the old bottle. And although she was reacting to it, her levels were not coming back down.

    We scheduled an appointment with the vet on the 7th and took her in. She completely freaked out in the car on the way - hyperventilating. I thought the poor girl was going to have a heart attack. Anyways, the vet checked her out and ran blood and urine tests, which both came back fine. No sign of ketones, which I was most worried about. The vet prescribed that we up her dose to 3-4 units 2x/day and said that her elevated levels could be weight related (she does seem more solid than she was back in February). And that is where we have been sitting for the past week. I should add that through this time period of elevated levels, Casper has been her normal self - no signs of distress.

    After a few days of still not seeing any decline in her glucose numbers, I hopped on these boards and started reading up. I noticed that a lot of people were using Fancy Feast, and did not recommend the Purina DM wet. So I decided to make the switch. I started with 1/2 can for each cat twice a day along with allowing them to continue having their Purina DM dry to graze on. Both cats took wonderfully to new food - both sitting there for a good 10 minutes chowing down. I don't think I've ever seen either cat sit and eat for that long. That was Thursday/Friday. Yesterday, I decided to cut them off the dry cold turkey and increased their feeding to a full can each 2 times per day. It is probably too early to make any conclusions, but in just one day, Casper's levels are dropping (30 points every 12 hours). And she seems so spunky this morning - even a little less bulky and her coat seems softer.

    I now have to wonder if this whole episode is all because of the Purina DM wet. We were doing fine until we introduced that into the mix. And now that it is back out of the mix, things look like they are heading back to the right track. So, I just want to thank everyone for the information.
     
  2. Pandasmom

    Pandasmom Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Hello and welcome!

    Glad to hear that Casper's numbers are heading back in the right direction. And so glad to hear that you're hometesting!

    When do you test her? Ideally to know what's going on, most people here test right before every shot and then get some mid-cycle tests so learn how the cat is reacting to the insulin at different points in the day. The time when Lantus will be most in the system is usually somewhere around +5 to +8 hours after the shot (you'll need to do some experimenting with testing to figure out where it is for Casper), so that will be where you get the lowest reading of the day. You don't want it to get dangerously low then either.

    You know that you can test for ketones at home too? Sounds like vet visits are pretty traumatic, you might want to look into getting test strips for that too. They're available at the pharmacy and not very expensive, you stick them in urine. People have different strategies - sticking the test strip in the stream while the cat is peeing, using a ladle to catch some pee then testing, or finding a pee puddle to test from.

    Going from 1 unit to 3-4 units twice a day is a huge jump. Is there a reason why the vet increased that fast? People here normally increase by like .25, .5, or 1 unit at a time. Be careful that Casper's blood glucose numbers don't go too low now that you've switched to low-carb food (you'll need to check mid-cycle to find out).

    Welcome again, and ask questions!
    Odiesmom
     
  3. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi there

    Welcome to FDMB!
    I'm going to throw some links your way, read read read!

    I agree, you'll want to be doing some spot checks thru each cycle to make sure BG is not too low.
    Keep stock of high carb wet food, anything with gravy is a little higher.

    You definitely should be doing a BG test right before shooting insulin, just in case Casper may be too low.

    EDIT :lol: how did I miss the SS?

    Keep this link handy too - watch for hypo on this dose, you'll know if you spot check a bit more frequent
    Jojo's Hypo Tool Kit
    How To Treat Hypo

    For some information on how lantus works, check out these links:
    Tilly's Protocol: Modified Version
    Lantus & Levemir Insulin Depot AKA Storage Shed
    Lantus & Levemir Data Ready To Shoot Low Numbers


    It sounds like the diet change helped Casper!

    Others will be along to help you out.
     
  4. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Usually one of the first things we tell newbies is dump the dry, return the prescription foods and feed only low carb wet foods per the food list.

    I know what you're probably thinking, then why did the vet recommend the prescription and tell me dry was ok too?

    The answer is very simple - Many vets haven't a clue about nutrition and cats needs. Rather they listen to the food manufacturing and "drink the koolaide" and buy the hype they are selling. Which has nothing to do with quality food, ingredients and what is good for a cat.

    A good read, if you haven't already is Dr. Lisa's site - http://www.catinfo.org

    She's on this board and knows all about food and nutrition.

    Now that you know, please monitor your cat closely, as the insulin needs will decrease. Just to play it safe, you may want to consider 2 things:

    1) posting on the lantus forum to get very specific dosing help
    2) starting over at 1 unit and slowly, carefully adjusting the insulin accordingly
     
  5. Pandasmom

    Pandasmom Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010

    She's way ahead of the game, she already has a nice colour-coded spreadsheet linked :D
     
  6. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    lol! thanks! :lol:
     
  7. Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

    Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi and welcome,

    You've found yourself a great resource here and I hope we will be seeing a lot of you! Well, maybe just enough to get your kitty into remission. ;)

    I notice your kitties might possibly have a tendency to love a food at first and change their minds. Mine most definitely do. At first, once a food was rejected outright, I concluded it was a non-starter for the future. I have learned, however, through trial and error, that the thing that works for us is to rotate among about a dozen flavors of Fancy Feast, all either 2-4% carb, or I feed an occasional 7 or 8 mixed with or balanced by a 0% carb. They eat with gusto, even flavors that were formerly treated like trash. What can I say? They're cats.

    Best of luck to you and Casper and I'll see you around Lantus Land.
     
  8. wayleng

    wayleng Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Thank you for the links - I definitely plan on spending more time researching and getting in the know. To answer everyone's questions about when I test. I do test before shooting, for the very reason everyone mentioned. We've done it that way from the beginning of our home testing. We've also done spot checks along the way - and did a ton over the weekend before we went to our most recent vet trip. I just didn't have them documented down to be able to add them to the spreadsheet.

    I will also check out the Lantus board and am ready to start dropping Casper's dosage. I did think about dropping her dosage down to 3.5 units this morning, but wanted to see what happens today, now that we are off of the dry. I would love to get back to the days where we were essentially off the insulin.

    I do have another question - does anyone else have a cat whose levels decrease when they go to the vet? On this last trip to the vet, I checked her 7:00am and she was at 325. We saw the vet at 10:30 and his reading was 264. And then she was back up to 361 at 7:00pm. In a normal day, I suppose that would be normal, but I would have expected her to escalate given the stress of the vet's office, not to mention how upset she got in the car. And she had similar results when she was in the hospital back in February. Each day, when I talked to the vet for an update, they mentioned that her levels were below 100 (If I remember correctly, her reading was over 600 when we checked in).

    Regardless, thanks again. Have a great day!
     
  9. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You had beautiful numbers on 1U, even with the dry food.

    If he were my cat, I would be inclined to start back over on 1U BID. You might get that advice when you go to the Lantus Group. It is possible that "something" threw Casper off, but now he is way off with a too high dosage of insulin.

    Too bad no midcycle number back on 1U. Given those preshots, I would have bet he could have been diet controlled quickly. There's still a good chance that he will, but I think you need a do-over.
     
  10. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    YES! Oliver dropped like a stone at the vet's the other day when he was there for his Xrays. I was SHOCKED! He dropped to 52! Thank goodness I had the smarts to take him foods because he was there for hours and I did not want him going without food too long. I took my meter to have them test him before they began and after. They asked me if I always keep him that low and I said NO! He should not go that low! I added if he hypos, I guess it's good it happens at the vets office! It took hours for his numbers to come back up.
     
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