New to group

Hi all,

Just stumbled upon this group. Our cat, Mowglie, a black Russian long-hair about 8 years old, was diagnosed with acromegaly about 8 months ago, after trying to figure out why he was eliminating outside of his litter box and was constantly voraciously hungry. We're working with a specialist in Glendale, CA, the Animal Specialty Group. We're at 11 units now but his blood sugar has never gotten below the high 300s and is often in the 400s.

Thus far, while we have known that problems could occur down the line, we haven't experienced any scares with Mowglie. But this weekend he had what seems to have been a low blood sugar event. He had a kind of seizure and subsequently had trouble walking and eliminated uncontrollably. We rushed him to the vet who could only give us some theories as to what happened and didn't really do anything for him except give him a bit of oxygen. The next day, yesterday, he seemed to basically be back to normal (or normal for him).

Honestly, it really shook me. I deeply love this boy, and while I've felt like I've been coming to terms with the realities of this disease, I guess I didn't realize how much seeing him suffer would impact me. It's made me want to get more serious about finding some ways to at least prolong his life and mitigate his suffering.

While we've been moving him toward a more raw, wet food diet we haven't yet fully gotten there, so I want to make that a priority now. I understand from browsing around here that Levemir may be a good move to make. Has anyone tried ubiquonol to help mitigate the impact of the high blood sugar? Dr. Karen Becker recommended this as potentially helpful.

I'm glad to have found this group and welcome any thoughts or ideas.

All best,

Scott

 

Welcome! Do you test Mowglie at home? It's a wonderful tool to have - you know what number he is before giving the shot, you can get a mid cycle number to see how low the insulin is taking and if he is acting strange you know immediately whether he is too high or too low. We've taught hundreds of people how and would be happy to teach you.

I do think people like Levemir for high dose cats, as it is thought to sting less at high doses. I see you posted on our high dose forum; it is not active but there is a lot of information there.

You might add ACRO cat to your subject line. There are a number of people here with the same issue.

 

Hi - thanks for the reply! Yes we've been testing him at home for a while in order to do blood curves to determine if the current level of insulin is bringing his numbers down at all. We haven't used it as a daily diagnostic. Is that something you recommend - doing it before every shot?

When you say it stings less at high doses - what exactly does that mean? What is the "sting"?

Thanks for the thoughts!

Scott

 

We do check before each shot, to be sure the number is high enoough for the dose. What kind of insulin are you using? With Lantus and Levemir, the nadir (5-7 hours after the shot) is what the dose is based on so that is important data.

Some people using Lantus have reported their cats reacts to the shot as though it hurts and that when they switched to Levemir, it didn't seem to hurt. No personal experience. I used a different insulin. Here's a thread with dosing suggestions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/using-lantus-levemir-with-an-acrocat.374/

 

Welcome to FDMB.
With acromegaly, you've entered a whole new world. I would definitely recommend Levemir, as Lantus can sting at higher doses.
Have you had the specific tests for acro, as well as insulin auto_antibodies (IAA)? It is possible for both conditions to be present.

You might edit the thread title to incude Acro/High dose. I put a note in the Lantus/Levemir forum where some experienced high dose users post to get their input, too.

 

Hello and welcome Scott and Mowgli. I love the picture of your Mowgli - he looks like a really handsome cat. What insulin is he currently on? A lot of the higher dose acro cats are on Levemir, although a few use Lantus. My acrocat Neko started on Caninsulin/Vetsulin (bad choice), moved to Lantus where she got up to 8.75 units, then after she went down in dose I switched her to Levemir, which I like best of all. Not all cats feel the sting of Lantus, but some do. Most of the acrocats on FDMB post on the Lantus/Levemir forum.

It's good to see you are home testing. If you are willing to enter data in a spreadsheet, instructions here, those of us with experience with acrocats will be willing to help you. Current research shows that one in four diabetic cats have acromegaly, but it's very recent research that most vets are not familiar with. It could be possible that Mowgli will need a much larger dose to get him into normal number range. Was he tested for IAA (insulin auto antibodies)? A number of cats have both and those with IAA too may need more aggressive dosing strategies.

My Neko was diagnosed over 3 years ago with both acromegaly and IAA. A few weeks after that, I took her to Colorado State University for Stereostatic Radiation Therapy (SRT), which at the time was the only treatment for it. There is a newer, but more expensive option out there now called hypophysectomy, which is the surgical removal of the pituitary gland. The surgery is only done in two places that I know of in North America, the VCA West Los Angeles Vet Hospital and the Washington State University in Pullman WA. SRT is available in more locations, but Colorado might still be the closest to you, if treatment is the way you want to go. Not all people can travel or afford treatment, and we have a number of people who just manage the acromegaly with the amount of insulin they need. Getting on top of the blood sugar with the right amount of insulin is the most important thing you can do for Mowgli.

And just in case you are interested in reading more about acromegaly, here is a post with a lot of current information. And I have a couple more articles I'll be adding to it soon.

Feel free to keep asking questions, there are a number of us here with experience with cats with acromegaly.

 

Hi Scott! Glad to meet you - I also had an acrokitty, Punkin. The story of his treatment with SRT (Stereotactic Radiation Therapy) at Colorado State University is linked in my signature block.

There are many of us here with experience with acromegaly. The latest research is that 1 in 4 diabetic cats have it . . . so no doubt there are more that have it here than are diagnosed.

I'd encourage you to post in the Lantus/Lev Insulin Support Group - as far as I know, all the current kitties with acro post there. As BJ mentioned, another high dose condition is iaa (Insulin Auto-Antibodies). A third condition is Cushing's. In any case, you have a diagnosis and we can help you move forward. Some of our kitties in the Lantus/Lev group have been treated for their acro, some have not.

Most do switch to Levemir - it has a very good track record in high dose cats. We stayed with Lantus and Punkin never acted like it bothered him. He got up to 15.5u before the SRT kicked in. I liked it mainly because the nadir (low point) of the cycle was earlier - for him it was around 5.5 hours after his shots - and that worked better for our schedule. If I were in your shoes now, however, I'd probably make the switch to lev when I was buying insulin next.

Your sweet Mowglie looks very regal! Punkin was a Maine Coon - a very large breed anyway, then add acro to the mix and he was a pretty big cat. He also looked regal.

If you need help getting a spreadsheet going, just say so. It's an essential tool that we'll teach you how to use, so you can manage Mowglie's blood sugar by adjusting the dose as needed, based upon his blood sugar. Many of us with high dose cats also use a secondary insulin, called R, (Humulin R or Novolin R) which can be a great tool to have in addition to the longer-lasting insulins. You don't HAVE to use it, but I think everyone who has learned to use it has liked it. If you want to learn, we'd time things so that an experienced R user would stay with you while you use it to help you understand what's going on and to teach you when/if to use it in the future.

We'll be glad to help you - ask a million questions!

Julie

 

I just read through the link about adjusting dosing with a high dose cat that Sue linked above - while there's nothing inaccurate in there, I'd really encourage you not to take the dosing guidelines and go it alone with a high dose cat. They are all so very individual, and if a cat is overdosed inadvertantly it can be a long effort to bring up their blood sugar.

If you'd like to learn how to care for him and manage his blood sugar, there's nothing quite like people looking specifically at your cat's situation and giving you advice that applies for your cat at that time.

Here's a link to the Lantus/Lev group. Post there and you'll get customized help. There are many people with experience with high dose cats who can help you there.

 

Julie,

It would be nice if someone with Acro experience would check out the forum with its stickies. Some don't work and apparently some have old info. For those of us without direct experience, it would be nice to have some info to give to new posters. And new posters may be going directly there.

 

Both Wendy & I try to keep an eye on people posting there. Only the mods have the ability to change those old stickies. We do have all the newest research in the Lantus/Lev group - they're all in the "New to the Group?" sticky, in the single topic links at the bottom. Wendy especially, has been keeping her finger on the latest research to do with high dose kitties.

You're right, though, that it needs to be updated. I just don't know who can do it - Patti/Merlin is the moderator of that group and I haven't seen her on in a couple of years now.

 

Welcome. My MurFee is a high does kitty. He is on about 23 units Levemir twice daily. I get prehots generally in the high 200's with lows in the 100's