New to Prozinc

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Teenuh, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Will you be home around your PM shot time? If so, that's when you'd want to test to see if she'll need a shot tonight. They can't go hypo if they haven't had insulin, so she's safe for you to leave her at this point.
     
  2. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    She didn't get a shot today, as I didn't test. So, I'm not sure what time shot would be?
    She was 166 last night at PMPS and that was around 10:20pm. I will be home again tonight at about 10:30 again. Then I'll need to leave again tomorrow at 6:45am and I may not be able to return until Tuesday at 8:30am.

    I'm going to try for another extended break tomorrow. If I can get one...is there a time you recommend coming home to check?

    Hope that makes sense.
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hadn't you decided that her shot times were 9am/9pm? or am I mixing Gracie up with another kitty? You could test her right now, and then your 'new' shot time could be 6:30/6:30 since you could shoot her 12 hours from now in the morning. Or you could test her when you get home, and just know that you'll need to skip in the morning since it won't have been 12 hours yet.

    Basically, since you skipped this morning, you can shoot anytime you want to - you just have to make sure that the shots times that follow are 12 hours apart.
     
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    *assuming she's high enough to shoot, of course
     
  5. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    You are correct. 9am/9pm are the general shot times for me. I think I'm going to test her when I get home, as I assume (lightly) that she won't need a shot tonight.

    I am more concerned about the extended gap tomorrow--about 26 hours. Ugh.
     
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  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you're right and she doesn't need one tonight, try to give yourself some extra time in the morning to test her. That way if she needs one tomorrow you can shoot her before you leave (doesn't that sound awful?!?! -- I mean inject her before you leave ;)).
     
  7. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Got it. I'll test her before I get ready in the morning instead of after and inject if over 200. If she for some reason she over over 200 tonight, I will inject her with her normal dose. This will mean I can't give her AM dose (if needed) as it would be to early.

    I'll update spreadsheet when I get to work and settled--about 8:15am my time tomorrow.
     
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  8. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Why is it recommended not to shoot . . . opps! I mean inject under 200 in the beginning? Every so often I look at others spreadsheets and see many numbers under 200, but insulin was still given.
     
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  9. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    For safety....at the beginning, you have no data on how your cat responds to either insulin or feeding.

    As you gather more data and learn more about Gracie, that "no-shot" number comes down
     
  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what Chris said...and it's okay to say "shoot" ;)
     
  11. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I know, but it just sounds wrong. Ha ha . I would never shoot Gracie or any cat for that matter.

    Even at work I'll say "I'm giving you an injection" not "I'm going to shoot you". I never thought much about it until recently. :cat:
     
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  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Someone did shoot Sam when he was feral - he's got a pellet/bb/something in his butt. Found it on an x-ray a few years back. :eek: He likes to sit on the windowsill and yodel during the warm summer nights, so it's not hard to figure out why someone might have tried to scare him off :p
     
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  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    79?!?!?! She was 79 this morning??? Go little Gracie!!!:D:D:D

    Looks like after that little hypo episode she has decided she'd rather not have anymore of that nasty insulin!
     
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yep! Gracie is saying, "I'm DONE with this nonsense!" :smuggrin:
     
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  15. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Don't want to jinx this, but it looks like she's in remission.
     
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  16. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    <<anti-jinx, anti-jinx, anti-jinx>>

    We are very very superstitious about these things. You can't use the r word until two weeks of normal range numbers. :D:D:D
     
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  17. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    What?!?? Dear lord. Sam you are a trooper!! Someone gave my "old" cat anti-freeze once. I wouldn't say they have gave it to her, but they were working on cars next door and she got a-hold of it.
    Big vet bill. Sad ending.

    Sam sounds like such a character! Does he hiss or growl? I only ask because Gracie doesn't. Instead she chooses a more non- verbal approach when shes mad.

    The only obnoxious thing she'll do is sit in the windowsill and chirp or talk to the birds she sees but can't get at.
     
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  18. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I can't jinx it.
    She got sick this morning. She woke me up. Vomit and diarrhea on the carpet. Which even surprises me even more that her number was still that low.
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh no! Gracie, what's up with that? Hopefully it was just a one time thing and she'll be fine when you get home. This is one of your long days, isn't it? Do you have a neighbor who can check in on her sometime today/this evening?
     
  20. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    So, would I be OD-ing my cat right now if I were giving her the 1u of insulin with these low numbers (I promise I'm not)? I'm just curious, as my vet said not to test.
     
  21. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Hard to say. It could be a different flavor of the FF Pate that didn't agree with her, or maybe stress too. She saw me packing a bag last night.
    I know she knows what that means. Ugh.

    I reached out to my cat lady to see if she is available. No word yet. Her feline is having some big problems right now though too. I don't want to over burden her.

    If needed I can go home today briefly to check in on her.
     
  22. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    PS. SS is being adjusted to human meter. Sounds like tomorrow.
     
  23. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    Very possible.....that's why we are so anal and insistent about home testing! Because if you hadn't caught that 79 and injected anyway, you could have come home to a tragedy.

    Death isn't the only possibility either.....permanent blindness, brain damage and a whole lot of nasty consequences are possible with severe hypo's
     
  24. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Hearing that even frustrates me, and makes me feel like my review of the vet who OD'd my cat on insulin was justified. I was skeptical, but went ahead and wrote the revie anyway.

    My co-worker told me in the beginning that "blindness" is a guarantee with feline diabetes. Her dog was a diabetic.
     
  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Diabetic dogs are prone to developing cataracts. Same does not hold true for feline diabetics.


    Mogs
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  26. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Wow Gracie! That low number sure is nice...but I'm sorry her tummy's upset. I hope she's better this evening!
     
  27. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Ok, probably a bit of a stupid question . . . but!

    Would giving her dry food be a test to see if her body can regulate glucose properly?
     
  28. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Nononononono! :eek:

    (sorry, I'm feeling a little dramatic today :rolleyes:)

    She will always be a diabetic. She will never be able to handle carbs. She is (hopefully) becoming a diet-controlled diabetic, but giving her carbs can throw her right back into high numbers and she'll be back on insulin. That's what happened to Sam. He went into remission in three weeks the first time. Then after about a year of remission I got lazy about the food and he relapsed. It's been a year now and well.....you've read my thread. :(
     
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  29. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    A bit premature :) :) :)
     
  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  31. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    You are allowed to feel a little dramatic--especially if you are trying to get someones attention. Sometimes, I feel like being a "Petty Betty".

    I'm glad I asked. I didn't necessarily think she could go back to dry kibble, but a little part of me was like . . . what if . . . . but that was shot down real fast.

    Sorry Gracie, and sorry bank account. I tried.

    Oh Sam.:(

    Were you still testing? Or did you start noticing "symptoms" again?
     
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  32. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Cats are gods.jpg

    I think this sums it up pretty much.
     
  33. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I was mostly testing at least once/month and often a bit more which is what's recommended during remission. Except that the holidays hit and I went like six weeks...of course that was when he decided to come out of remission. I hadn't even noticed that I'd missed his test - I noticed all of a sudden that he was peeing and drinking too much. It still took me a few days to do the test b/c I knew what had happened and didn't want to face it. It was super fast. One test he was 81 (12/17/16) and the next he was 302 (2/5/17).
     
  34. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Ah yes. Barely two months? So fast and scary.
    I only noticed Gracie drinking an increase in water 1x, but after I became sick and was home more paid closer attention. I'm sure it was a more frequent thing, but I wasn't home enough to pay attention. She stopped eating her dry food. I thought for sure it was a dental problem. I started watering her dry kibble to see if she would eat it. She ate some, but not much. Then I started noticing the sticky- hard to clean litter. One day I picked her up and thought wow she seems smaller. Lost 6#'s.

    It's a hard pill to swallow . . . especially if you "feel" like you did something wrong. I hope you don't beat yourself up over it.

    Did your vet know you stopped giving insulin and he was in remission?

    I'm trying to figure out what I should/should not tell my vet.
     
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I lot of people get stuck in this position. If your vet is willing to work collaboratively and your tell him/her you want to be hands on with Gracie's FD treatment, that's best case scenario. We always say to stick with a vet you like for general kitty health care if he/she isn't a "my way or the highway" type of person. Some people just nod pleasantly and do their own thing at home if their vet is a bit too directive.
     
  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm more angry at the cat food company's packaging that led me to believe it was low carb. When I finally contacted the company directly and asked, it turns out the food was 23% carbs. They have since changed their recipe and I believe it's much lower now, but I will never ever feed their food again - or trust what I read on the package! Whenever I switch food now, I contact the company to confirm the values.

    As for the vet, yes, he knew when I stopped. I called and gave him an update with current numbers over the two weeks of the OTJ trial so he knew I was making an informed decision to go off insulin. My vet is definitely not an expert in FD, though he is a very nice person. So he was okay with me making decisions for Sam's care.
     
  37. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    When she called me on the phone to give Dx she said I could either start insulin, try diet changes and recheck in a few weeks. She didn't like me feeding Gracie Blue Buffalo when she was overweight, but oh well, I did my own thing.

    I would say for the most part I like her. I wish she encouraged home testing, but I'm finding that few vets do.

    I'm not a human diabetic, but I'm almost 99% certain they have to check their BS prior to injection. My cat lady/sitter said her vet said her cat wouldn't go hypo, as their body will tell them eat.
     
  38. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Even food labels for adults are so misleading. Ugh. What food was it? If you don't mind sharing.

    My vets office has a "pet dietitian". o_O Hills Science Diet and Royal Canin are the only thing she recommends for diabetic felines. After I did my research and I returned the bad food she tried to to tell me that there are good carbs and bad carbs.
    In the end it is still carbs. You don't tell a human diabetic . . . you can still eat all the carbs you want, but just make sure they are whole grain.

    Carbs=Bad for diabetics.


    Can you remind me. Do use AT or human meter? I'm guessing if you presented to your vet yo gave him AT numbers.
     
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Her vet is wrong. There is no guarantee whatsoever that a hypoglycaemic cat will automatically seek out food. (The same holds true for human diabetics. My best friend is a lifelong diabetic and he taught me to look out for warning signs that he was going hypo without realising it.)

    For example, some cats become extremely lethargic and/or spacy and do not automatically seek food (and to this I can personally attest). Actually, a cat can actually have a symptomatic hypo after a fast, steep drop down to the low part of the reference range (i.e. still in the nominal 'normal, safe range'; and I can also attest to the truth of this).

    I've actually read here about a kitty that was sitting on the sofa looking absolutely fine one moment only to fall off it completely unconscious due to low BG levels a moment later.


    Mogs
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  40. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Speaking of low BS.

    I arrived home from school and I had a weird feeling to check Gracie's blood sugar. She was at 40.
    I suspect she didn't feel well, or something to that nature, as usually when I arrive home she greets me, or I can find her on my bed or the couch. She was in neither spot. After calling her name she came out of hiding.

    She was at 40. I checked again and she was at 45. Is this considered a hypo? She had no insulin this morning--so I'm guessing no. Do I need to retest soon? I'll be home for another 4 hours.
    I gave her fresh food after I tested. She ate some, but not much.
     
  41. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    There are some cats who just run a little lower. If you find Caitlin and Pita's spreadsheet you can see that Pita has a number of lime green days when he was OTJ for a brief period.

    There are also a few non-diabetic health issues that can cause cats to go hypoglycemic, though they are quite rare. It may be worth keeping an eye on her a bit to see if she continues to run low. I'm afraid I can't remember what exactly causes it, but I believe it's a small tumor somewhere. Most likely though, she is just running low for a moment and it's not a problem. The old spreadsheets actually didn't count hypos until 40. Personally, I'm glad it was bumped to 50 now. Feels a little safer for those of us who go to work once in awhile. ;)

    As for your friend's vet -- Sam has always been great about feeding himself when he was going low, and letting me know that something was up. However, just this morning he failed at that job. I was just about to run out the door for work and grabbed him for the out the door test and he was at 46. He was sitting in the doorway to the kitchen, maybe two feet from his food dish, but hadn't tried to eat anything. I put some food in front of him and he dug in like he was ravenous. Why in the world he hadn't just helped himself is beyond me. But again, that's why we test. Most of the time they can and do take care of themselves pretty well. But every once in awhile....
     
  42. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I was with my friend when he hypoed on a couple of occasions. He became a bit disoriented, didn't know exactly what was going on and his behaviour changed (became a bit skittish and a little incoherent of thought). Thankfully because he'd primed me on warning signs I was able to quickly give him some sugar water to get his levels up again quickly. As soon as his BG got back up it was like flicking a switch and his speech and thinking patterns went straight back to normal.


    Mogs
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  43. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Dec 27, 2017
    Well, that hurt. I accidentally poked myself when I was doing a retest on Gracie.

    Anyway, do any of you weight your felines? I've become a little obsessed about it lately--only because she dropped so much weight in the beginning.

    I usually just put her on my human scale.
     
  44. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I'm going to be home till about noonish today then I have to go run some errands and head to work.

    Should I do any extra testing? I tested 2x this morning--about 30 mins apart.

    I only ask, as eventually wouldn't I be shooting below 200? just at a lower dose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  45. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    At this stage it looks like she is staying in pretty lovely numbers with no insulin. IMHO giving insulin now would be like giving insulin to a non-diabetic cat => only risk hypo and bouncing.
     
  46. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    We only shoot under 200 if the cat requires it in order to stay under 200. So for example, this morning Sam was 141. If I didn't give him his full shot, in a few hours he would have been over 200. He needs insulin in order to stay lower than that. His own pancreas is not producing enough insulin to keep him healthy, so I have to inject insulin to help him out.

    Gracie is staying lower than that on her own. She doesn't need injected insulin to do it. Her own pancreas is providing all of the insulin she needs. If you added more insulin to what she's already producing, it would be too much, she would hypo, and could be harmed.

    Right now you really only need to test once or twice/day. You're just monitoring to make sure she stays in healthy ranges on her own.
     
  47. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I do. I have a baby/pet scale.
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I've got a digital baby scale, too. One of the smartest purchases I've ever made. It makes it so straightforward to maintain a cat at ideal weight.


    Mogs
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  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I have one as well. Good investment ... :)
     
  50. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    I'm tempted, what's the cost, ballpark?
     
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think mine was about $50 CAD.
     
  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  53. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Well, I have sad news to report. It isn't really sad, but slightly disappointing.

    I feel like something is off with Gracie. I can't put my finger on it. She seems to be distancing herself. She hasn't greeted me the last couple of mornings. She kept to herself today. She didn't lay with me when I took a nap. It could be a fluke. BUT

    I was able to get my "cat lady" to come over tonight, as she was in the area already house sitting and asked if I needed her. I took her offer up. She just sent me a picture and BS was 280. I asked her to test again an it was 273.
    I gave her the OK-to shoot.

    That was short lived.
     
  54. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Could she be brewing an infection (dental? bladder?)? You mentioned her looking a little off before the higher BG showed up.
     
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  55. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    She just didn't seem like herself.

    Last checkup (early December '17) dental exam wasn''t mentioned. Mouth was examined, as I felt like she had a bad tooth or something, as she stopped eating dry food.

    UTI: Possibly. She seems to be voiding in the litter box. I know sometimes urination outside the box can be a sign.

    I'm going to pay close attention to her tomorrow, Friday and over the weekend.
     
  56. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm...do keep an eye on her, and if you still get that feeling, I'd take her in for an exam next week. Sometimes that "mama sense" tells us things are going on.
     
  57. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    Oh, for sure. If I notice a continued feeling off I'll take her in.
    She has an appointment on the 31st for a recheck fructosamine test--not sure if that is really needed.
     
  58. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that number seems quite odd, and a bit concerning. Do keep an eye on her. I know the vet has taken a fair chunk of your money already in the past few weeks, but if she continues to seem off, another visit would be in order - you can skip the fructosamine test as long as you keep checking at home. That won't give you any info you don't already have.
     
  59. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I just received a call from my cat lady. I'm pretty irritated to say the least.

    She will sometimes bring her feline over when she house sits. I personally don't mind . . . but maybe I should.

    Sounds like she tested her cat at my place too--again I don't usually care. But, now I'm wondering if that number was in fact Gracie's last night. She told me her cat was low last night (below 100) which appears to be very rare for her cat, and high as a kite this morning. Whereas my cat was low this morning. The meter read 43. I just retested 30 mins later and she's at 68.

    Sigh . . .
     
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  60. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    You were up early! I had to double check that time stamp. :woot:
     
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  61. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    Ouch! How much insuline did Gracie get?
     
  62. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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  63. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    @Djamila
    I forgot to mention she has been sneezing for the past few days.

    Should this be concerning?

    Silly question, but I’m on the alert.
     
  64. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    [*Gulp*]


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  65. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    My vet called me today and left me a message to see if I needed more Prozinc. o_O Good thing I couldn't answer . . . is it really only good for a month? :nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  66. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Nah, usually Prozinc doesn't start to poop out until around 6 months...sometimes earlier, but I don't know of anyone who's only gotten a month out of a bottle unless their dose was just that high!
     
  67. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

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    Your vet doesn't know she's off insulin yet? :facepalm:
     
  68. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    . . . No . . . :nailbiting:
     
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  69. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Just show her the numbers you have. There is no way any vet is going to object to you stopping insulin with those numbers!!! Maybe take a couple with the AT2 so they are in "vet language".
     
  70. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    It's not that I haven't told her on purpose yet . . . but I haven't gone out of my wall to call and be like hey, so guess what? Gracie is not currently on insulin and this is why.

    I mean should I call her specifically to give the news?
     
  71. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I have every full intention to tell her, but I'm not going to necessarily go out of my way to either.
     
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  72. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    @Kris & Teasel @Djamila @Rachel Nothing urgent, but I wanted to share how incompetent some vet techs are.

    I took Gracie to the vet this morning. She needed her nails clipped (she won't let me do it, or if she does it takes awhile). Do you have any tips?

    Anyway, I was telling the vet tech how Gracie is off insulin. I shouldn't have even asked, as I know the answer, but I asked If she is off insulin can I give her, her old food again. Her response was, Yes.

    I just thought to myself you idiot. This wasn't my normal vet tech. Guess who I requested not to assist with my cat though? Her. The incompetence worries me.

    @Chris & China
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  73. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sigh...I wish these vets and their techs would learn a bit. I don’t expect them all to be FD experts but they could at least learn some basic nutrition!
     
  74. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

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    I'm sure, well hoping it wasn't with ill intention. I'm sure it wasn't;nonetheless, still annoying.

    I think I asked Djamila a question similar to this when she was newly OTJ. Seemed like an obvious answer after she said something.

    But, I had to think about human diabetes. You can't just go back to eating a plate full of enriched pasta. Well, I guess you could technically, but your pancreas would be mighty mad.
     
    Rachel likes this.
  75. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh wow..that makes me so sad to think about them giving advice like that to people who don't know any better and who think they can trust their vet to guide them.

    As far as the nails - each of my kitties needs something different. Sam has always been good about it, but he insists on standing up, and I have to do one nail at a time and let him put his paw back down in between. And he gets a treat after every couple of nails. We are always sitting on the carpet and he usually leans against me while I trim them. I rarely do his back paws. Atticus was a very long process to get him to let me trim his nails. I have to brush him for awhile first until he's super relaxed. And then I have to tell him what I'm going to do first, show him the clipper, talk to him in a quiet low voice, and if he starts to get anxious, stop and brush him some more. He couldn't care less about treats so it's all about the brushing with him. He doesn't take care of his back nails, so I do have to trim those too sometimes. But since he is laying down when I do his nails, it's easy enough to work my way around all four paws.

    So it's just a process of figuring out what Gracie needs in order to let you do it, and as you can see, it's not quick with either of them. But I figure if I factored in the time it would take to get them in the car, drive to the vet, and come back home, it's still faster to just do it at home than all of that!
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.

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