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  1. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    My cat Kloever is a 14 year old Tuxedo that has been diagnosed with diabetes about 7 weeks ago. It's been ok. Just trying to get her regulated. I feel bad for her. I also have 2 other cats and don't really know how to only give her canned food. Any advice on ANYTHING would be greatly appreciated! So happy to have this forum available! :) THANKS!
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be.

    There are 4 things you'll need to manage your kitty's diabetes:
    - You - without your commitment, the following won't work.
    - Low carb over the counter canned or raw diet, such as many Friskies pates. See Cat Info for more info. If already on insulin, you must be home testing before changing the diet.
    - A long-lasting insulin such as ProZinc, Lantus, BCP PZI, or Levemir.
    - And home blood glucose monitoring with an inexpensive human glucometer such as the WalMart Relion Confirm or Target Up and Up (the pet ones will break your budget!).
     
  3. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    The few low carb dry cat foods (not recommended due to issues of hydration) are :
    Evo Cat and Kitten - not the fish one (may contribute to lower urinary tract disease); at specialty pet stores, about 8% calories from carbohydrates
    Young Again 0 Carb - internet sales only, in the US, pricey but allegedly they eat less so it works out cost wise. about 5% calories from carbohydrates
    Stella And Chewey's freeze dried

    These may be useful as transition foods while you work on getting all of them to a species appropriate diet. I feed mine Friskies pates - Turkey and Giblet, Poultry Platter, Liver and Chicken, for example. They come in 13 ounce cans which is helpful for feeding 15 cats!
     
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  4. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    So...would you suggest all the cats be on just canned food?? They are 15 and 11 years old. Also...where do I get the testing supplies? Idk if I can do a blood test...but possibly a urine one? I've been keeping a close relationship with my Vet! When she was diagnosed she also had a UTI...then we got her on meds and insulin...seemed to be doing GREAT! Then...peeing outside of the box again...took her back in. We've increased her insulin to 8 units 2X a day. I just want this to settle down. I'm trying so hard...but I can't have her peeing everywhere. I've been recently confining her...not a small space...but she's not free roaming. I let her out periodically so she doesn't get sad. Mentally...she's the strongest of the three. I just want her to have a good quality of life. We don't believe she has any other health issues. Thanks for taking time to help me! :)
     
  5. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Caution: No Food Changes Until You Are Home Testing For Safety! A change to low carb canned food may reduce the glucose 100-200 mg/dL and drop the insulin 1-2 Units.

    Testing supplies - WalMart or Target are fine
    WalMart: Confirm or Confirm Micro meter, matching test strips, lancets for alternate site testing
    - same thing as the Glucocard 01 or 01 Mini
    Target: Up and Up meter, matching test strips, lancets for alternate site testing

    Recommended: KetoDiaStix or generic, ask at the pharmacy counter if not on shelves or purchase online. These may be used in urine testing for ketones. Ketones develop when fat is broken down. Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat complication of diabetes.

    What insulin are you using? What dose did you start at? How fast has the dose been increased That is a whopping high dose - insulin doses should be adjusted based on the nadir, the lowest glucose post-shot. Your cat may be at risk of hypoglycemia if the dose has not been correctly started and adjusted.
     
  6. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Novolin. We started at 5units 2X per day. Had her BS tested twice since. Both times were about 4 hours before the next shot. One was 246...next one was 280. She still drinks water like crazy!!! But her coat is improving!
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    What were her initial tests at the vet, before insulin?

    They should have tested about 4 hours after the shot; Novolin only lasts about 8 hours in the cat, so they tested when it would be highest, not when it would be lowest.

    FYI - we just had someone join last month with a cat on 15 units of Novolin. By home testing, they saved the cat from dying from too much insulin (hypoglycemia). The cat is now down around 3 units.
    Kloever may need15 units ... or may be dangerously overdosed and getting ready to crash. Home testing may save her life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  8. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    She was over 400 initially...
    You're scaring me...she's acting totally normal. I just talked to my Vet a couple of days ago. She's parked at the water dish and urinating a ton. It went from 5units 2X per day...to 6 units 2X per day...to 7 units 2X per day..to 8 and 7...to 8 and 8.
    I don't have any home testing supplies... :-(
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Make sure there is ample food out for now. If you don't have a nearby WalMart with 24 hour access, then get the testing supplies tomorrow, asap.

    When/If the glucose goes too low, compensatory hormones release any stored glucose from the liver (glycogen). This gets converted into glucose. The stored amount is finite, and so far, your cat has been able to eat enough to compensate. The stored glycogen may run out at some point, though.

    Vets have a lot to try keeping up on, and realistically, can't be up to date on everything. If your vet were up to date, you would have gotten one of the insulins I mentioned above - ProZinc, Levemir, Lantus, BCP PZI.
    Do not get Caninsulin/Vetsulin - it was developed for dogs, which have a slower metabolism than cats do.
     
  10. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    I got the insulin that was donated by someone that lost their cat. I have lantus...he was happy with how this was working for her so he told me to keep her on it. Thank you for your help. I will watch her!
     
  11. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Will walmart have the urine testing supplies?
     
  12. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    They should. May be behind the counter.

    Your earlier post said Novolin; your previous post says Lantus.
    Which insulin are you actually using? It makes a big difference as they are NOT interchangeable.
     
  13. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    The donated insulin is Novolin. I have Lantus in my possession. Vet liked that Novolin was working for her. He advised me to stick with the Novolin for now.
     
  14. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Yeah, and the vet is raising the dose at a very rapid rate and you're not home testing. I am very concerned.
    Its your choice, though, as to if you are willing to risk your cat's life. You would never give an infant insulin without knowing it was safe to do so, [edited to add] so we figure why would you do that to your cat?

     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  15. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Now you're assuming poor things about me without even knowing me. Thank you for your time. Pass judgment on others from now on. Most people wouldn't even try to treat an animal with diabetes.
     
  16. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Kate, I don't think BJ was passing judgment, just trying to get across the importance of home testing. Since cats tend to hide pain or discomfort, it is difficult to know how they are feeling or where their sugar is at without testing.
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    I'm sorry you took it that way, Kate. Its just really urgent that you get started testing due to that exceptionally high dose. I don't want you to come home and find him in hypoglycemic seizures or near death.

    See also my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for other assessments which may be helpful - dehydration checks, monitoring intake and output, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  18. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Welcome Kate and Kloever! Don't worry - you're not being judged, we're just concerned as that dose is HUGE for a cat without other contributing factors like IAA (insulin autoantibodies) or Acromegaly.

    Testing at home where Kloever is comfortable is critical especially with your vet raising the dose so rapidly, quickly and at such large amouts. Most of us change it by .25units, not whole units at a time.

    You can get human testing supplies which work fine at any pharmacy that carries diabetic supplies. Many of us use Walmart's ReliOn brand 'Confirm' or 'Micro' meter. That way you can get strips easily as needed. My first diabetic was diagnosed June 8th 4 years ago. On August 12th, if I hadn't been testing, I would have killed him by shooting a full dose into an already hypo number. That sure scared me and made me SO SO thankful I was testing! It's not hard to do, just different. We'd love to help you learn too. Some vets say human meters won't work but they do... :)

    HUGS! Please let everyone here help!
     
  19. Louellen

    Louellen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Welcome @Kate and Kloever! I think we can all see that you're trying your very best to learn as all of us have to do and are still doing. I know that this all seems very overwhelming as I am also still learning as I go along too and am still asking questions, weeks after I joined. It's a tough road to go down and you're right. There are so many people who wouldn't bother trying to be in here, learning as you are trying to do. Please...pat yourself on the back for your efforts and your want to know more how to help your kitty! :)

    Please also get to know some of us in here as all of us are concerned and so many in here have a great deal of knowledge and experience. They have helped me tremendously with their vast wealth of knowledge. Trust me...I know that you are scared as I was a mess when I first came in here and still have my days where I am panic stricken. That's where the kind members in here are wonderful in being able to calm us all down/each other down.

    If I might be so bold @BJM ???
    I know exactly what BJM has been trying to say and why. She is right for her concern and warning to save you a lot of heartache and Kloever's life. BJM has a lot of knowledge and because she answers so many posts every day, in spite of the fact that she no longer has need to be in here anymore except out of pure love and concern and want to help, she's here, trying to help others with issues and her vast amount of knowledge.
    I will be honest....in her brevity sometimes, it *may* sound like she is a bit "gruff" (sorry BJ...just lack of better words to put it in). I too, was taken back at first by her some of her responses BUT...I have come to know her, her compassion and her knowledge and my senses have stopped stinging as I know that she has mine and Morrigan's best interests at heart. She is a healthcare professional as well so, she knows her stuff! She's really NOT judging you at all! I know it may sound/feel that way but, she's really NOT. Trust me. She gets right to the point and doesn't blather on as I will do oftentimes, driving myself and everyone else NUTS!!! :eek: :kiss: :( :woot: Now, SMILE because honestly...you are NOT being "judged" by BJM or anyone else. :bighug: It's purely out of concern that those points are being pushed as hard as they are. That's not to say that Kloever will suddenly have issues after this much time...but, more to the point that she *could* if not watched carefully. That's all. Don't get into a total panic though.

    That said, I do agree with BJM that it seems confusing for us here as well to understand things at first and now that you have clarified which insulin you are using and why, it DOES seem like a hefty dosage to be on BUT...that said, your vet has given the green light on it. I also agree with BJM that Home Testing...especially, at this level of dosing, IS SO IMPORTANT!!! Not just for you and your sanity's sake....but, for all of us (so that more knowledgeable members can look at them and help) and particularly a kitty like Kloever who is on such a high dose. Honestly, it's not hard to do the home testing at all once you get used to doing it....but, it will mean that getting that meter and strips will be extremely important to do. The sooner you can get that, the better for you and kitty. I think that's the real point that BJM was trying to get across with brevity and lack of a long drawn out explanation. :)

    So...please take a breath, breathe, sigh, take a drink if you need one and try to relax, knowing that all of us in here CARE and are here to help you in whatever ways that we all can. You've come to the right place...a bit of a rocky start maybe, but...NO judging, NO malice and certainly only a HUGE HUG and welcome to the group!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  20. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks everyone! I'm sorry BJM for jumping to conclusions. I just felt attacked...for lack of a better term. I never said I wasn't going to home test. My Vet actually said I could. I bought a meter and strips today and am about to use it. My Dad has had diabetes for 26 years...so I'm not exactly a novice. I've been watching her very closely.

    So my question right now is...the ear right? As close to the tip as I can? Warm it up first? Hard surface beneath? What number am I looking for? It's been 12 hours since her shot this morning.
     
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  21. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Warm it first, about a half an inch to an inch below the tip, towards the edge, something on the underside of the ear to keep from poking yourself. Between 50 and 120 is normal. Have you fed her yet this evening? And so glad you came back!!!

    ETA: I read Louellen's post, and I agree about the numbers. Let's just see where she is at. Have you given her shot yet?
     
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  22. Louellen

    Louellen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    So glad that you're back and have taken that breath as we all have had to do on many, many occasions with our own Sugar Kitties. :) You'll get this and having a diabetic dad, you have an advantage and will get this down pat quickly :)

    The ear yes. That's where most of us test...though a few members will test the paws. Most cats won't let us touch their paws and because they are in the litter/dirt (if they go outside) it's more prone to infection but, most who do it that way are fine. I'd start with the ear. :)

    You can warm the ear with either gently massaging the ear towards the outside edge (the "sweet spot" where the vein runs along the outer edge) or...you can use a warm wash cloth or a sock with some dry rice, put into the microwave until just "warm" (not hot). Either way is purely preference and ease for you. Massaging as the advantage as well of bringing the blood flow to the ear edge for a better chance of a bead.

    You can try putting a very THIN layer of vaseline on first as that will give a good blood bead until the ear start to bleed easier (they will get used to bleeding...really). It stops the blood from soaking into the fur or wicking up the fur so that you can't get the sample properly.

    Then, once you have that all done, poke with either the lancet that came with the meter (if Kloever will accept that noise) OR...take the top off of the lancet and just "free hand it" by poking the ear yourself.

    You will need something underneath the ear. Some people use cotton or tissue folded up, others prefer something hard like a small roll of tape, covered with a tissue or paper towel (you don't want to prick yourself too at the same time as many of us have done). Don't be concerned if you go through the ear as most of have done it many times.

    Afterwards, try to apply some pressure by pinching lightly on the spot so that her ear won't bruise (AFTER getting the meter strip to soak up the blood).

    The numbers...well, let's leave that for now and just get the test done, recording the number first on paper and later, you can learn how to put it on a spread sheet in here for others to see in your signature and just report that number back here for a more knowledgeable member to interpret. :)

    Hope this helps! :)
     
  23. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Was going to feed her. Should I wait til after test?
     
  24. Louellen

    Louellen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Since you haven't fed her yet...yes....test then feed! Why not shoot while she's eating? :)
     
  25. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
    Ditto what Louellen said.
     
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  26. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    And...how deep? 1-5...5 being deepest.
     
  27. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
    I use the lancet device on 5
     
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  28. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    ear veins.jpg This may help you see where you want to prick.
     
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  29. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Well that was fun.... 131...that's over 12 hours after her shot!!! ?????

    And...the paw worked...ear...not so much...
     
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  30. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    And....she's PISSED!!! Haha
     
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  31. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    So how much should I give her??? Now I'm afraid to give her any???
     
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  32. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    LOL on the pissed!! I will wait for more informed members to chime in on the dose. Only been doing the dance for a month. @BJM ?

    ETA: Just know that a skipped shot isn't the end of the world. If you look at my spreadsheet, I have skipped several in the last week.
     
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  33. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
  34. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    So glad I checked!!! Both times at the Vet she was 246 and 280 five hours before now!!! I hope I can get the ear thing down...I don't want her to get an infection!
     
  35. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Just reading through the history on this thread...give me a couple of minutes and I'll see if I can help you figure anything out. :)
     
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  36. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    She's near normal numbers. I would stall without feeding for 30 minutes and re-test. If she is rising swiftly, and if she gets over 200 mg/dL, you might shoot half of the Novolin you normally do.
    OR
    You might take this opportunity to switch to Lantus, too.
    A starting Lantus dose is based on the following:
    How much does he weigh?
    How much should he weigh?
    Convert to kilos (pounds/2.2).
    Multiply by 0.25
    Round down to nearest 0.25 units (we eyeball 0.25 and 0.75 increments)


    OR start with 0.5 to 1.0 units (Start Low, Go Slow protocol)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  37. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Ugh....already fed her... :-(
     
  38. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    OK, what I'm seeing is that you're fairly new to home testing and that kitty is on a high dose of a fast acting insulin. I wouldn't give insulin at this point as she's under 200. If you find she's rising rapidly later on, you could give her some insulin...though it looks like the 8 units might be a bit much for her if she's close to normal numbers after 12 hours on an insulin that doesn't usually last that long.
     
  39. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    The higher numbers at the vet could very easily have been vet stress - that can add 100+ points to any reading that's taken in a vet office.
     
  40. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks!! That's what I was thinking. It's almost 10pm here...should I just skip the shot? Also...she still drinks a ton of water!!!???
     
  41. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    She was pretty mad at me!!!! Vet told me the Vet stress is usually 25-50??
     
  42. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Thanks, April and BJ. I knew what I would do, but didn't want to give advice.
     
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  43. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks everyone SOOOOOOOOO much!!!
     
  44. MollynSkooter

    MollynSkooter Well-Known Member

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    Jun 4, 2014
    Without a spreadsheet or having ANY context whatsoever for the 131, it is hard to tell you what to dose.

    Are you sticking with Novolin or using the Lantus? I have no experience with Novolin

    One thing that would be SUPER helpful is if you could create a signature line, showing what Insulin you are using, the units she is getting, where you are located and what meter you are using. Also, once you get your spreadsheet up and running you will want to add that as well.

    In the upper right hand side you will see your name, "Kat and Kloever", hover over that and a list of stuff will come up, click on signature and it will bring you to the area to create your signature line.....
     
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  45. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    No, vet stress according to one research article may raise the glucose 100-180 mg/dL.
    When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback without having to go look in all your past posts.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name,
    cat's name,
    date of Dx (diagnosis)
    insulin
    meter
    general location
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
     
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  46. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    This is my first test at home. I don't know about switching insulin...although...I have seen that Novolin is discontinued? I'm sure I'll be switching over...going to call my Vet on Monday to see.
     
  47. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    It may be with diet change, he won't need insulin.
     
  48. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    No worries Rhonda. Always happy to take a look if I'm online. :) And one of the ways to learn is to ask people and then see whether or not they're thinking the same as you are! :)

    If you're not going to be up much longer then yes, I'd skip. With Novolin there's no depot, so there won't be a long-term effect from a skip - she might just start out a bit higher tomorrow. And it's much safer for her to run high for one night than risk her going too low.

    I can confirm the effect of vet stress on Rosa - the last time I took her to the vet (and that was only for a nail trim) she was still almost 100 points above her average for that point in her cycle 3 hours after we got home again.

    If you already have Lantus and your vet agrees to let you switch, it is usually a better insulin for cats, though of course results do vary depending on the individual cat. I will admit to being biased in favor of the L insulins because Rosa did so well on Lantus.
     
  49. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok thanks!! I will skip tonight!!! :) Is my signature ok guys??? ;-)
     
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  50. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    One more thing... @BJM....what about the excessive water consumption?
     
  51. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Sounds like a plan. :) And it should give you a chance to get a good night's sleep too! Depending on what time you're planning to shoot in the morning, I might not be online (I try and take advantage of the weekends a bit more since Rosa's been OTJ) but I'm sure there will be people here who will help you decide whether to reduce her dose and if so by how much if you post the number you get before you give her shot. :)
     
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  52. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Signature looks fine. I'm so glad you tested him!!
    Here's our guide on using Novalin/Humulin NPH or "N" insulin.

    The water consumption may not be entirely due to diabetes. There are several other conditions which should have been ruled out:
    - hyperthyroidism
    - renal disease
    - other, more rare conditions only after establishing good glucose control and ruling out common conditions
     
  53. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Kate, I normally am up and testing/feeding/shooting Shiloh about 7 am Eastern time. So if you are up around that time, I should be here, and will help as much as I can.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
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  54. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Hey thanks!! I'll check it out...really hoping it's not renal failure...been there... :'( and not to be mean...but Kloever is a girl. :)
     
  55. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Hi Kate! It's likely that Kloever has been diving low and bouncing high when you didn't know...that will cause her to drink more too. Dakota drinks more when his numbers are higher than when they're normal. If he goes on a 'zoomie', he tends to sleep near the bowl....

    HUGS!!!! Welcome to the Vampire club! :) Don't worry about her being pissed, she'll get over it.
     
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  56. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    OTJ??? :)
     
  57. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks everyone!!! For future...Kloever is a girl!!! :)
     
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  58. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Off The Juice - otherwise known as diet controlled or in remission. :)
     
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  59. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Love it!!!!!
     
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  60. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015
    Wow...had a neighbour come by so, had to get offline but, so glad that the wonderful people I have been blessed to get to know have chimed in and, as BJM has said so wisely....THANK THE HEAVENS THAT YOU TESTED!!! Yahoo!!! :) Caught that one nicely. GREAT CALL @BJM ... yet again. :) Super HUGS!!! :)

    @manxcat419 and @Shiloh & Rhonda and @Squeaky and KT just HUGS TO ALL of you! :)

    Edited to add...I don't know nearly as much as you guys do so, I am ever so grateful to have you all around and you all proved it again tonight. :)
     
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  61. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    That read was SUPER helpful!!!! Thanks so much!!! I think you just saved my Kloever!!! Hugs!!! :)
     
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  62. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok. 208 this morning??? Almost 24 hours without insulin...how much should I give her? This is really confusing to me. Thought it would be way higher?? Her chin was wet from water too. Also....if this helps...because I have other cats..there's food out.
    ****stumped at what to do??
     
  63. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    He's barely gone up. If you're up for it, I'd give 0.5 or 1.0 units, then curve him, that is, test him from pre-shot to pre-shot. And have Karo syrup on hand in case of low numbers.
     
  64. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

    Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

    The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

    Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

    From left to right, you enter
    the Date in the first column
    the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
    the Units given (turquoise column)

    Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
    If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
    and so on.

    Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
    To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

    There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

    We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

    It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
     
  65. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    All I have is my phone??
    Do I check her bg every 2 hours??
     
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  66. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Sent you a message @BJM
     
  67. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Hold off on the spreadsheet until you've access to a proper computer and/or have downloaded and installed Google Drive for your phone.
    Just note how we report our numbers
    AMPS = morning pre-shot test
    +2 would be a test 2 hours after the shot
    +4 would be a test 4 hours after the shot
    etc.
    Have you got Karo syrup?
    If yes, and you're up for it, give just 1 unit. This will be an experiment as we don't know whether it will be too much or not enough.
     
  68. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    So I was looking at my insulin bottle. It says it contains 100 units. Clearly I'm not using "units"...Been using the bottle since April...??? It would've been long gone by now???
    Yes to Karo syrup.
     
  69. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Let me check - it says U-100 on the bottle? That means 100 units per milliliter (mL). You should have a syringe which has an orange cap. That would be marked in increments of units or half units.
    You'd draw up 1 unit on the syringe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
  70. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok. Yes. You're right. 1 unit...going in. I'll check her in 2 or 3 hours??? What was I doing to her???? Why did they start me off at 5 and 5??? She's laying on the floor purring...haha
     
  71. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    You were following the vet's instructions. It is impossible for vets to be up to date on everything and unless continuing education was taken on feline diabetes, the vet is working off what was learned in vet school.
    Also, vets may not mention home testing because some owners will opt to euthanize the pet, rather than home test and give injections.
    You were willing to learn more and have found more current information, plus tools for keeping your kitty safe.
     
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  72. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Kate, how much does Kloever weigh?
     
  73. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Just in case, here are our instructions for managing low numbers / hypoglycemia.
     
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  74. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Too much!!!! She's almost 20#. Before diabetes she was 23...the went under 18...now up to almost 20. She was 19#10.5oz a few days ago.
     
  75. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    That could be part of why the vet started at such a high dose. If she continues to need insulin, switching to Lantus, she would start at about 2.25 units (we eyeball quarter units)
     
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  76. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Perfect!! Thanks for the tip. So...how do I approach this tomorrow without offending them??? Want to keep a good relationship with them...they are truly great vets.
     
  77. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    We've got a section called Convert A Vet You might peruse and possibly share with your vet and say something along the lines of knowing how busy they are, saving them some time by finding the articles.

    You might say that you came across the idea of home testing the blood glucose and decided to see what home numbers you got ... then mention the low numbers and your concerns.
     
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  78. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    How long has it been since you gave the insulin?
     
  79. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    BJ, if her comment was made about the same time she gave the shot, about and hour and 20 minutes.
     
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  80. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    About an hour and a half.
     
  81. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Time to test if you haven't already.
     
  82. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    I never got clarification of 2 or 3...I can do 2.5?
     
  83. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
  84. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    And that was 1 unit? For the curve, it is every two hours from shot to shot, or every three hours for 18 hours.
     
  85. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    About every 2 hours.
    From 208 to 138 in 2.5 hours is a drop of 70 mg/dL.
    As long as she remains above 50 mg/dL, she is fine and there is no need to intervene.
    NPH wears off around 8 hours or so, depending on the cat. The nadir, or peak action and lowest glucose are likely around +4 hours post shot.
    Set an alarm to test again in 2 hours.
     
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  86. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Got it! Let me clarify. No more shots until her nighttime shot..correct?? I'm just testing again in 2 hours...correct?
     
  87. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    NPH?? Sorry...don't know all the acronyms yet...
     
  88. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    That is the acronym for Novolin
     
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  89. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    You've got it. Just the tests every 2 hours but no extra shots - just her regular one tonight (if her numbers are high enough).

    I'm happy to see her numbers stayed down nicely for you overnight - she's looking great. :)

    NPH is the type of insulin that Novolin falls under. I don't remember exactly what it stands for, but I'm sure BJM will be able to tell you what the letters stand for.
     
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  90. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    I feel horrible giving her so much insulin and she didn't need it!!! :(
     
  91. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Should I test 2 hours from last test...or +4?
     
  92. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Take it 2 hours from when you tested. The general idea is to see when she hits her lowest level and when she starts going up.

    And NPH stands for neutral protein Hagedorn, a type of insulin. Both Humulin and Novalin make an NPH insulin. We often just call it N.
     
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  93. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    It's not your fault at all Kate. Please don't blame yourself. :bighug: We all put our trust in our vets to know what to do for our cats and, unfortunately, it seems that with Feline Diabetes they don't always have the specialist knowledge that is needed for controlling this condition. So many of us have had this sort of problem - I was told by my vet to start Rosa on double the amount of Lantus that's recommended as a starting dose based on her weight at the time so you're certainly not alone in this. The important thing is that you've found out and you've got everyone here to help you figure this out and get Kloever feeling better. :)

    That's exactly right. Your next test will be +4, then +6 and so on until her next shot time. :)

    ETA - oops, missed that the first test was +2.5. So the next one is +4.5 etc.
     
  94. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Also know that things change; giving insulin can rest the pancreas and allow it to recover some function.
    And tests at the vet can be 100-180 mg/dL higher than at home.
    And changing to low carb food may reduce glucose levels 100-300 mg/dL.


    Summary:
    AMPS - 208, 1 unit of NPH
    +2.5 - 138

     
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  95. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks so much!!! :) ok...next test +4.5. I have adjusted her diet...and the other two I guess. Plus the testing at home!! :) I have a few scratches...haha...but the ear has worked both times today! MUCH EASIER!!!!! :)
     
  96. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    You're doing really well getting everything together and getting started on home testing. :) Kloever will get used to being tested - Rosa can be a nightmare for having anything even remotely medical done and she got into the routine for me without too much bother. If you can offer Kloever a low carb treat after every test (I use Pure Bites at the moment but there are others available too that are just freeze dried meat) then she'll soon come to realize that test time means treats and then she'll stop scratching.
     
  97. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    A piece of plain cooked, raw, or freeze-dried chicken may be used as a treat, to help reward her cooperation.
     
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  98. Louellen

    Louellen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    I'm bouncing around today but, checked in to see how things are going with Kloever and sounds like things are going well! You're testing well (in spite of scratches...where I thought I would need stitches some days...today was one of them...yes...still ;) ) And, you're getting a really good idea of where Kloever is in terms of her BG and how the insulin works (as we ALL have to do). Way to go, Kate!!! Crash course, huh?

    Of course, you're in excellent hands here. I only wish that I had the knowledge that they have but, I don't. I'm still learning too so, we're all on this path of learning with special guidance from those who have so much knowledge and can help us better than our vets can in this arena.

    HUGS to EVERYONE! :)

    Edit to add: @BJM You've once again, likely saved Kloever! (why isn't there a heart icon?) HUGS!!!
     
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  99. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    I think she's happier too!!! :) <3
     
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  100. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    And that counts for a lot! :) We do talk about numbers a lot here, but how our cats are feeling and acting is also very, very important - they're so much more than just the number on the meter. Quality of life is extremely important too (in fact really when we talk numbers, we're talking a combination of safety plus getting to a range that's going to leave our cats feeling normal and happy). It's great that she's feeling happier - it's always lovely to see when they start feeling good again. :)
     
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