New to this forum and new to cat diabetes

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Becki and sox, Oct 30, 2018.

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  1. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Well that's lower than I expected and makes me concerned about giving any insulin tonight. Since we don't have much data, I think I'd skip the shot tonight and tomorrow I'd reduce down to 1u. And you can back the time of tomorrow morning's shot to whenever you choose. This may result in higher numbers tomorrow but better to be safe than sorry. With today's nadir being so close to the warning level, I just wouldn't chance shooting tonight. And bonus, you get to sleep soundly!
     
  2. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with all of the above...
    .
     
  3. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Ok thank you guys I was a little bit concerned of giving it myself tonight when I say the 9.1 reading.
    I'll try and wake up in the morning at 7 lol test and feed then shoot at 7.30.
    You think just give 1u in the morning unless he's still lower than 11?
    Does it hurt if I miss a shot tonight in the overall picture.
    And would you monitor every couple of hours tomorrow to see how he reacts?
    Maybe worth me giving these results to the vets already do you think cause the vet nurse was saying it would take a while to get into his system?

    Oh and what does nadir means sorry?
     
  4. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    In principle, yes. ...But, if he's close to 11, I do wonder whether to shave a bit off that one unit.... Are you going to be around to test tomorrow, Becki?
    A missed shot here and there shouldn't be a problem in an otherwise healthy cat. And sometimes skipping a shot is just the safest option...
     
  5. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Missing a shot isn't something you want to do often BUT safety trumps shots as long as there are no other medical concerns involved like a history of DKA. BG may be a bit higher tomorrow but then Sox surprised us all today and may do so tomorrow too!
    I'd definitely monitor him tomorrow as you did today to see how he reacts to the 1unit dose. That way, you'll get some data to make dosing decisions for when you are not around to monitor all day.
    Insulin is a hormone not a medicine that takes time to "get into his system". You probably should show the vet the results but I don't think there is any rush to do so.
    Nadir refers to the lowest BG point in the 12 hour cycle. Dosing decisions should be made based on both pre-shot which tells you if it is safe to give insulin and then mid cycle tests which tell you how low a particular dose is taking the BG. The two readings are important so even if the pre-shot is safe, you wouldn't give a full dose of insulin if the dose drops the BG so much that it would put kitty into dangerously low numbers. Sox went down almost 12mmol today, so even at a pre-shot of 12 for example, I wouldn't give 1.5u right now.
     
  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Eliz. I asked about the markings on your syringes for this reason because we usually suggest dose changes of 0.25u to 0.5u at the most although when it comes to reductions sometimes more is needed.
     
  7. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Yes I'll be in all day tomorrow so can keep check on him.

    Ok so if he's 11.0 or over do the 1u if he is under 11.0 should I still do 1u or do less.

    I just think if we would have done what the vets said and not tested and just shot him tonight we could have made him poorly.

    I've attached a photo of needle.
    Thank you SO much for the help today.
     

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  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Becki, I am hesitant to say give 1u if he is around 11 tomorrow morning. I like Eliz's suggestion of reducing a bit. I suggest 0.75u if he is between 11 and 15mmol. You'd have to eyeball that dose half way between the 0.5 and 1u markings on the syringe. If he is over 15mmol, then I think 1u should be fine. Monitoring is key given you are still trying to find the right safe dose that doesn't push his BG down too far so you can safely shoot twice daily without having to skip shots too often. Glad to be able to help!:bighug:
     
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If the UK is like here, the amount of training vets get on diabetes is really quite minimal and it covers all different species. Unless a vet specializes or just happens to have a lot of experience with diabetic cats, they don't necessarily stay up to date on treatment recommendations. Diabetes is a very hands on situation so educating pet parents should be paramount however vets seem to overlook this and feel it's a medical issue so they should take the reigns. Many don't recommend home testing for a variety of reasons some of which are just plain ridiculous like "your cat will hate you" to "your cat can't go hypo on that low a dose" or they've had bad experiences when they have encouraged people to home test. My vet had a client who refused to give her diabetic cat shots never mind test the cat! Vet was devastated! Being a vet isn't easy and they can't be experts in all things. The important part of the relationship is whether they will work with you as a partner rather than a dictator when it comes to dealing with our diabetic cats.

    This forum is a remarkable community and we are just trying to pay it forward for all we have learned and received from the community. Everyone here either is living or has lived the experience and that hands on experience is invaluable.

    As for cats only needing one shot daily......it's happened with long acting insulin but it is very rare. I haven't seen any in my time on this board. Cats have a fast metabolism so it's more common for insulin to not last long enough through a cycle than it is for it to last through a 24 hour period. :)
     
  10. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Morning all
    Yeah definitely I believe that and conditions are always changing due to new every day factors.

    I've tested BG this morning at 7.10am 14.8 so I will give the 0.75u at 7.40am. would have been earlier but sox wasn't been cooperative this morning lol

    If when I speak to the vets will they be not happy with me for not doing night shot and changing dose?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  11. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    That .75 looks like a good bet to me. It is far safer to start lower and work up from there, and especially given Sox's response to insulin yesterday.

    Quite a few of us have had that conversation.... ;)
    Given that your cat's blood glucose looked like dropping quite low the first time he was given insulin, I think reducing the dose 'should' be seen as entirely reasonable.

    However, one of vets' concerns does seem to be that if people are hometesting, they will start to take control of the situation in ways that aren't healthy for the cat (as Linda mentioned above.) My own vet wasn't thrilled initially. So I found myself just 'not' telling him stuff...and doing a lot of 'nodding and smiling'... It was an ethical dilemma for me, because I value honesty, but it was safest for my cat.... Further down the line my vet conceded I was doing really well, and that he'd never had a diabetic cat live so long after diagnosis....
    .
     
  12. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    It depends so much on the individual vet and how you approach a conversation with him/her. Some vets are lovely and open-minded, will respect responsible owners and their efforts to learn more about a complex disease, and work with them on a treatment plan, putting any professional pride to one side in the best interests of the cat. Others are affronted at the thought that a mere layperson can think they know better than a trained "expert". So you have to tread softly at first and get to know the vet and what sort of person he/she is. Ask questions, ask "what about if...?" and "what would you expect to happen if...?" and respond with your own thoughts so you engage in a conversation rather than develop a "teacher and pupil" type of relationship. A healthy working relationship of mutual respect with your vet is worth its weight in gold. You may disregard some of their advice/suggestions, but you never know when you might need them in an emergency so it's always best to keep them on side.

    I currently have a lovely vet and it takes away a lot of the worry of visiting the surgery.
     
  13. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Yes definitely. I was told to email the results across after next weekend after doing my curve . Been as I will have this information after today is it worth contacting vets tomorrow with this weekends results and telling them I dropped the dose as he seemed to be dropping quick.
    OR just leave it for the week and then just give them all the data I have gathered when they wanted it?

    Sox also seems a little brighter today after injection where as yesterday he seemed quiet sleepy (he always sleeps alot bit just seemed more so) could that have been due to the amount of insulin?

    3 hours post insulin 11.2
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  14. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    If it were me I'd leave it for the week, as by then there will be more data (based on experience) of how the insulin is working in Sox's body.

    OK. ...Don't be disappointed that it hasn't dropped more. It is entirely possible that Sox's body released some counter-regulatory hormones in response to that low number yesterday. And the purpose of counter-regulatory hormones is to cause temporary insulin resistance. It may settle out in the next cycle.
    Of course, it's also entirely possible that the .75 isn't sufficient. But it's too soon to tell. 'Waiting and seeing what happens' can be a big part of dealing with feline diabetes...
     
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  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I too would hold off and just accumulate data this week and present it to the vet next week as was planned. Otherwise it may seem a bit confrontational.... like "look what happened". :)
     
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  16. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Yes that sounds like a good idea.
    I've just done his 6 hour post insulin BG 8.7
    Would you suggest testing again at 7 hours just to see if it goes lower?
     
  17. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You could and it would be useful info to see just how well the 0.75u dose is working for him. You're getting the hang of this...it's like a puzzle you are piecing together! :)
     
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  18. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Thanks @MrWorfMen's Mom Right will do :woot: was just reading up on prozinc and it says it can peak up untill 10hours if I've read right.
    Is the main aim of it all to keep his BG in the green area for majority of the day?
     
  19. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    BG at 7 hours 11.6 so starting to go back up now.
    For tonight's shot should I stay at 0.75 seen as I'm back to work tomorrow or would you say from looking at the results I could possibly do 1u?
     
  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Eventually green numbers are the goal but until you get to know how Sox reacts to insulin, it's best to work at dosing slowly and methodically. This is a marathon not a sprint and intentionally dosing to reach green numbers this soon could be dangerous. Sox and you and doing great and you've already made a lot of progress toward healthier BG for Sox.

    Every cat is different so while the nadir usually occurs around mid cycle, there are cats who will nadir later. Sox does not appear to be one of those kitties at this point but nadir can move and sometimes the dose can influence the nadir timing. The data you collected yesterday and today's data will be helpful in learning just when Sox usually hits his lowest BG.

    Sox could be bouncing a bit today so right now I'm thinking it might be best to stick with the 0.75u for a few cycles before increasing. It's best to stick with consistent dosing rather than changing it for each shot right now so you get a good picture of how each dose is working for him. He may level off again before PMPS.
     
  21. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    That sounds perfect to me. I'm happy giving the 0.75 to be fair while I'm out of the house and not with him.
    My partner finishes work Monday and Tuesday at 2 so although it will be past the half way mark he can take a reading when he gets in to check how he is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  22. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    9hrs post insulin 16.8 so he has gone back higher. Wether that's due to the dose not been enough or him bouncing as you called it... Maybe tomorrow might get a better idea as it's settled into him abit more

    Will I be ok to do the shot at 7.30 instead of 7.40 tonight?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You can shoot 15 minutes earlier or later without any noticeable effect. With ProZinc you can, when more familiar with Sox' reactions to insulin, shoot up to 1 hour early, but best to not shift times by more than 30 minutes if at all possible as shots pushed too close together can behave like dose increases. A few minutes here and there as you want to do is nothing to be concerned about.:)
     
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  24. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    That's fine just want to move him to half 7 as i go out to work at quarter to 8.

    We should be ok to do the 0.75 in the morning and then be left on his own till half 2 shouldn't he... From today's results.

    How many days do you think I should keep the 0.75 till as I'll be at work now from Monday to Friday.
     
  25. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You indicated you are feeding Sox twice daily with his shots. Once thing you could do is to spread out his food allowance a little more to keep a more steady supply available. Some folks here feed their cats 4 times a day, others 6 by taking the daily food allowance and dividing it between the number of feedings with a little heftier meal given with the shots and the remainder divided up for snacks in between.

    Right now I see no issue giving the 0.75u and not testing again until 2:30 but it is always a good idea to leave a little snack out for kitty to eat if they feel the need. Many folks use automated feeders but I used to just freeze some wet food in an ice cube tray and leave out a cube or two depending on size, before I left so it would melt gradually and be edible a little later on in the cycle as a snack.

    We try not to hold doses for too long if they are not adequately lowering BG but that has to be balanced with caregiver monitoring ability. Right now, I'd suggest you give the 0.75u another day or two, to see how Sox is doing and then if needed, you could increase on a night shot when you could monitor for a few hours to see how he does with it.
     
  26. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    The only problem I have with that is when I put food out Sox will just eat what ever is there he never leaves any lol.
    And having 3 other cats they always steal each others food.
    I could possibly get my hubby to start feeding a little before he starts his 2oclock shift or after he has finished his 2oclock shift... That could work maybe.
     
  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I know all too well the conundrum of multiple kitties in the household. My extra sweet kitty still likes to pilfer one of her brother's food and he walks away from his bowl when he sees her heading his way. As a result, I no doubt erred on the side of leaving too much food down but I then I was lucky because my diabetic doesn't like cold food...room temp or warmer for her and she was a one flavour kitty so I usually put a flavour she didn't like down along with one they would all eat and hoped the amount they all got worked out. All you can do is experiment a bit and see if you can devise a plan for your crew. There are microchip activated feeders that would alleviate the problem but they get expensive when you need more than one.
     
  28. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Do you think it's better then for them to have a little nibble during the day? The vet nurse just recommend to still stick to a morning and night feed?

    If I left anything down sox would eat it all no matter of the taste lol :woot:

    Normally I feed a little extra food before bed so if I give insulin tonight at half 7 he will be ok for a little food at 10 won't he?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It is now generally accepted that feeding several small meals per day is easier on the pancreas than feeding twice a day and we want to give the pancreas a chance to heal and hopefully get back to doing it's job without the need for insulin injections. In the past, the belief was that kitty should be fed twice daily with their insulin shots. The problem with that is that diabetic cats can't utilize the food they take in efficiently. That's why they are always hungry, eat a lot and still lose weight. By feeding them multiple meals it keeps that continuous hunger at bay and keeps kitty's food stress down. Until they are regulated and if they have lost weight, there is no reason not to up their food intake a bit to keep them well nourished.
     
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  30. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Okie dokie. I'll get Brad to give him a little before or after his shifts in the week. A
    And a little extra before bed will be ok?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  31. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan. A bedtime snack will keep Sox from waking you up middle of the night looking for food. :p
     
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  32. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Perfect. It Wouldn't be set times would either be 1pm or 2.30pm depending on what shift pattern he has. Would that still work?
    HAHA yes but they all stay down stairs while we sleep upstairs anyways :D
     
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  33. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No problem with snack being at different times. We all have other things on our schedules other than kitties and if you leave food out for them they'll eat when they choose to anyway. All you need do is figure out what works for you and Brad. As long as you are both clear on who is doing what and especially who is giving shots. There have been instances where more than one person has been responsible for shots and double doses have been given inadvertently.:nailbiting:
     
  34. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    That's going to be me for now then once I'm confident I will teach Brad.
    Oh dear that's not good. I suppose it can easily happen can't it.

    18.2 pre shot check now
     
  35. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Don't let that 18.2 worry you. Likely a bit of a bounce which should flatten out in the next few cycles. :)
     
  36. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Fingers crossed just hoping he behaves for his jab now lol

    Is it ok to feed him and then inject while he's eating. Might be easier whiles he's distracted or does it have to be half hour later?
     
  37. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Some suggest feeding and making sure the food stays down especially with faster acting insulins but as long as you know he is eating and he's not a scarf and barf cat, you are fine to inject while he has his face stuffed in his bowl. When you won't be home during the day, you could give him half his meal wait a few minutes and then give him the rest and inject with the last half of his meal just to be sure he has food in his tummy while you are out.
     
  38. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    That's a good idea. So if I was to do that in the morning I could at 7am test and feed half food then at 7.30am feed the other half of his food and inject?
     
  39. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! That way you know he is eating well, has food in his tummy and can hopefully inject without Sox fussing about it.:)
     
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  40. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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  41. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Just looking at Brad's rota if the 0.75 isn't enough Brad's off on Wednesday so could do a 1u shot on the morning then he's at home to check him through the day.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a great plan!
     
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  43. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Right bed time now just tested and BG 14.2 given a few spoons of food so should be good for the night do we think?

    By the way sorry for all the posts :rolleyes:
     
  44. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sox should be just fine. No problem with the posts. I remember all the questions I had when I was new at this! This can be totally overwhelming and confusing so the more you ask the more in control you will be. :)
     
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  45. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    It can indeed and I think it just gets a bit scary when your not going to be with them through the cycle to keep an eye on them isn't it :nailbiting:
     
  46. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely.... which is why we suggested you lower the dose given the numbers you got at the 1.5u dose. Those first green numbers are both a thing of beauty and fear especially when you can't be home with them to monitor constantly. Another good reason for home testing so you get to know how kitty is reacting and can make decisions based on the data you've collected when questions about whether to shoot or not, whether to give a full or reduced dose, increase or decrease the dose etc. crop up. This isn't a one size fits all medical condition...it's very much hands on.

    Sleep well tonight. I have to run....I have Special Olympic curling tonight so I best go start piling on my warm clothes! Any questions in the morning, just post. There are usually folks here from the UK or Europe and possibly Australia or NZ when you're doing your morning routine but if you don't get a response and are questioning shooting for any reason, just skip. Sox will get back on track soon enough. :D
     
  47. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Ooo I bet that's quiet chilly.

    Tested this morning 16.4 split the breakfast meal and Brad will check at half 2 when he is home.
    That 0.75 may not be enough as you say but I'm assuming some insulin is better than none isn't it.
     
  48. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely "some insulin is better than none." ...And it may well be that yesterday was a bit wonky because of the previous day's low numbers. Let's see how things go today.
    .
     
  49. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    So Brad's just tested when he got home so it's just over 7 hours post insulin and he's 13.7.
     
  50. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    He may have been a little lower a bit earlier, still in a bit of a bounce or he may need a bit more juice. Stay the course till Wednesday. By then any bouncing should be cleared and you'll know if a little increase is in order.
     
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  51. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Yes that's I was thinking was possibly lower earlier in the day.
    Will do... I've already told Brad he's got a day of checking on Wednesday :D
    Do you normally find a .25 change makes quiet a difference or is it quiet minor change?
     
  52. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The amount of change depends on the cat. Usually it's not overly dramatic but there is the odd cat out there who reacts to small dose changes more than others which is why it's always a good idea to monitor a little more closely the day you increase. If I had to guess, I don't think Sox is a drama king given his reactions up to this point. :)
     
  53. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Haha no bless him. Good to know though wether to expect a big change or only something minor. :joyful:
     
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  54. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Fast forwarding to may next year. I'm ment to be going on holiday. Do you guys still take holidays when you have a diabetic cat?
     
  55. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I did several times. I was lucky because I have a friend who agreed to learn how to test and give insulin and I started training her well in advance so she was comfortable doing it and kitty didn't have any issues with my friend. I will admit to leaving a novelette of instructions and then staying in contact everyday but we had no problems at all. You can check around for pet sitters willing to deal with shots, a vet tech from the local animal clinic, students wanting some extra cash, a neighbour, friend or relative etc. There's usually a solution....you just have to search them out and give yourself time to do so. The other alternative is to board kitty while you are away but most kitties do better if left in their own environment so I'd try that route first unless you know Sox is Ok with boarding.
     
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  56. majandra

    majandra Well-Known Member

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    What is a good wage to offer to the pet sitters?
     
  57. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    We have got Brad's mom who's willing to learn the testing and giving insulin. I was just wondering if it was too much to leave some one with who hasn't got day in day out experience with it.
    I'm hoping by may though he might be settled more into lower numbers then.
     
  58. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It's been awhile since I used a pet sitter service. I had one who charged $35 per day (one visit) and an extra $5 per cat for multiple cat sitting. Another charged $45 plus I think $10 per extra set of furry feet but I never used either one when medications other than a liquid medication that was mixed with food was needed. Usually if meds are involved the price goes up. I suggest you check online for options, interview them and then decide who can best meet your needs. Interestingly, my vet just opened a boarding facility and their prices for my diabetic would have put me in the poor house. I think it also depends on where you are located. These prices were for Toronto. If you are in a smaller centre prices could be a little more reasonable.
     
  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so as long as you leave her all the info she needs including allowing for an extra safety margin if kitty will be alone much of the time. I personally like having someone close to me who knows how much I love my cat and will be more vigilant about sticking with the plan and making sure kitty is safe but there are lots of very trustworthy people and great petsitters out there.
     
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  60. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Yes that's true. So maybe if we start getting his mom used to the routine the start of next year she should be good to go.
     
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  61. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Hey, he might even be in remission by then.... You never know......
    .
     
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  62. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Ooo I hope so that would be lovely. Let's keep our paws crossed :bighug:

    15.6 BG tonight before food. I'm still ok to stick to the 0.75 with that number arnt I?
     
  63. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    I think so. ....I'm still not convinced that there isn't some wonkiness going on from those low numbers.... The current numbers are sort of 'flat' and unresponsive... So keeping to a lower dose for the next cycle sounds like a good idea to me....
     
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  64. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Perfect. :D I'll stick with it tomorrow too then if we still think it's ok too I'll try the 1u on Wednesday :joyful:
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  65. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Just done his before bed time BG 8.8
    I'm going to feed him a little bed time snack before we go to bed.
    Should that stop him from dropping from to low?
     
  66. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Sorry Becki. Just got home from getting snow tires put on car. If you are still up, I think he may be breaking the suspected bounce so it might be a good idea to set an alarm and test again around +5 or +6 just to be on the safe side. He should be fine with the snack but you still don't have enough data to really guess his next move.
     
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  67. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Hey no worries I didn't see this message was already asleep. I woke up around the 7hr mark post insulin and he was 16.1.
    Still good for 0.75 in the morning do you think?
     
  68. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'd stick to the 0.75u. Wednesday seems the best time to make any changes given monitoring can be done then. He might be telling us something with that 16.1 after the 8.8. Let's just see what he does Tuesday and then decide next step. :)
     
  69. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that was quite a drop! It may well be, as Linda said, that he's dropping out of that suspected bounce. And the speed of that drop could well have been enough to trigger that quick jump up. The fact that there was no further drop by +3 (three hours after shot) sort of looks like the body had an 'uh-oh' moment...
    One question, Becki, did the shot go OK? Any chance you hit muscle instead of injecting into the gap beneath the skin? The only reason I ask is that injecting into muscle can speed absorption of the insulin.
    Oh, I've just thought of another question... Is the insulin thoroughly mixed, uniformly 'milky'?
    If neither of the above are relevant, then the 'bounce' theory still looks like the best bet....
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  70. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Yes will do. I'll get Brad to check when he's home again from work but he's likely to have gone back higher by then as it will be tested around the 7 hour mark again.
    I think it did it hasn't seemed any different to the last few times ive injected.
    Would Sox let me know if I'd hit a muscle would I tell?
    Yeah seems to be mixed ok I take it out of fridge for 10 mins before and then rotate it a few times till it goes cloudy?
     
  71. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    What could that be?
     
  72. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Yes, Sox would notice if you hit muscle... (Ouch, Mom...)
    Sounds like insulin is well mixed.
    ...Just wondered if there was any reason other than 'dropping out of bounce' for the steep drop. Doesn't seem so. :rolleyes:
    .
     
  73. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    He never seemed to notice it so I don't think I did. It's all very confusing :nailbiting: and plays up my anxiety but I'm sure it will get better... Won't it lol.
    I've just done AM reading at he's @ 18.0:(
     
  74. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, Becki. It's possible his body wasn't thrilled about that quick drop into a blue number yesterday.
    I know it's all confusing at first. But it WILL get better. And you are doing everything you possibly can for Sox. You really are doing brilliantly! ....In a little while it will all start to make more sense, and as you get a feel for how the insulin works in Sox's body you will gain in confidence enormously.
    (((Hugs))) :bighug:
     
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  75. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Thank you @Elizabeth and Bertie I'm sure I'll get my head round it.
    I suppose as well Sox body has got to get used to the insulin as well as it's not used to the lower numbers.
     
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  76. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    To your question of what Sox might be telling us......I was just wondering if Sox came out of one bounce (from the 1.5u dose) and then bounced again due to that 8.8. Just a possible theory.... not a fact..... that we would keep in mind when determining next step dose wise. Today will help give us a better picture of what he's up to. :)
     
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  77. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Do you think it might be worth us keeping the 0.75 tomorrow for Brad to monitor through the day?
     
  78. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Let's see what he does today before deciding. It would be nice to get his numbers down a little bit more and it's best not to leave them in higher numbers too long or they get used to it making it harder to get them down. That said, safety is #1 priority so if it appears the current dose is working better today, then another day at the same dose might be the right decision.
     
  79. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Okie dokie I'll see what he is pre shot at 7 tonight and then before bed. would you suggest setting an alarm for me to check in the night again?
    Brad tested when he got home and was 12.7 7hrs post insulin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  80. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan but I think you can hold off deciding about the need for setting an alarm until you see what he has done by the before bed test. Often those tests 2 or 3 hours after the shot give you a hint about what they might do through the night and we all need our beauty sleep when possible! ;)
     
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  81. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Okie dokie I'll let you know the bedtime one will be about half 9 so if I could get your views on that then I would be very greatful to what you think for the night time :)
     
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  82. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    15.0 pre insulin shot
     
  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    That pre-shot is a tad lower which is great. Will keep an eye out for before bed test. How long till you'll be hitting the pillow?
     
  84. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Is it better been lower does it react slower? It will either be 2 to 3 hours from now.
     
  85. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Oooh.... Well, so far we look to be in a very similar situation to last night. Will be interesting to see how this goes over the next couple of hours...
    .
     
  86. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Yes definitely I'll test at 9.30 (2 hours time) see how it's going
     
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  87. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    2 hours after insulin 13.4
     
  88. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think you are OK to increase to 1u tomorrow and with someone there to monitor it's a good time to do so. Looks like Sox needs a little more insulin. Suggest testing tomorrow around +3, +6 and +9 unless there are any low BGs early on in which case, testing before +6 would be advisable. If you give Brad your sign on we can help him should he need assistance or have questions. Sweet dreams. Sorry I didn't get the alert right away. :oops:
     
  89. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    That's ok don't worry. Do you think I should check him during the night or he should be ok?
    I've not given him his before bed feed yet but he will be having it in the next half hour.
     
  90. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think he should be fine and if you'll be giving him a snack shortly it will prop him up a bit more. He hasn't dropped much...certainly nowhere near last night's activity.
     
  91. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    He hasn't no. Do you think all the high numbers and quick drops are due to the amount given on Saturday?
    Should still be ok with the 1u if he's by any chance under 15?
    Pre bed test 11.0 snack fed
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  92. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It can take up to 6 cycles (3 days) for bounces to clear so I do think the Saturday dose has been an influence but it appears to be waining now. If he's over 15, I'd definitely try the 1u. Under 15, I think you could still try the 1u as long as Brad can monitor and knows what to do if his numbers get low but if you/Brad are uncomfortable with that, you could leave him at 0.75u. I see he's dropped a bit more since last reading...little sneak. Perhaps an alarm to test would be a good idea around +6 tonight just in case Sox is holding his cards close to his chest.
     
  93. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Right alarm set for 3 hours. :coffee: lol I'll update you then lol
    So Brad will be monitoring him tomorrow. Once he's done the half 1 check he will probably feed the mid day snack. Should he still do that or not been as were wanting to see what numbers were getting on the 1u?
    Also is the idea with the insulin to drop the sugars a little but then they should plato out slightly?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  94. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feed Sox as you normally would. Best to keep to a routine. While food will influence Bg numbers, you know when you have fed and can interpret Bg numbers accordingly.
    The ultimate goal at this point is to get Sox into some nice low blue or even some high green numbers for as many hours per cycle as possible but to keep the bouncing at minimum, it's best to take it slow and steady and let kitty get accustomed to those better numbers gradually. The cycles should go from higher to lower numbers with a surf in the middle before the PM rise. The trick is to try to avoid big drops that set off the bouncing.
     
  95. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    Yeah definitely that can't be good for kitties body.
    6rs post insulin tonight and it's 14.9 so not gone too low for long.
     
  96. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    No he seems to have stabilized on the 0.75u so if he is over 15 in the morning, I'd increase to 1u. Sweet dreams. :)
     
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  97. Becki and sox

    Becki and sox Member

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    Oct 29, 2018
    So far on 1u today
    7.30am was 18.8
    10.30am 11.8
    1.30pm 8.1
    4.30pm 15.5
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
  98. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Love that 8.1! Sox is having a nice cycle on the 1u today.

    As far as food is concerned, I have always judged by calories rather than volume because some foods are more calorie dense than others. The number of calories depends on whether kitty needs to maintain, lose or gain weight and what ideal weight is. Diabetics don't process their food as efficiently when unregulated so they sometimes need more calories than they normally would just to maintain a good body weight. You'll need to decide if Sox is currently at a good weight now, still losing or gaining.

    My girl is about 16lbs, not overly active and she gets roughly 300 calories per day to maintain her weight. Her food contains about 90-100 calories per can and each can is 85g volume. I used a formula I saw here ages ago (13.6 X ideal weight in lbs. +70) to arrive at her maintenance caloric needs. If kitty needs to gain or lose, you adjust accordingly and monitor weight/food intake until you get to the weight goal.
     
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  99. majandra

    majandra Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2018
    The cans usually say something like kcal per 100g or something similar- it's in the very hard to read fine print.
     
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  100. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    If it's not on the can (or you can't read it:blackeye: because of the fine print) they often have the information on the website.
     
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