New & Trouble Getting Cat To Eat Low Carb Foods

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Louellen

Louellen

Member Since 2015
Hello Everyone:
I'm new here to these forums and re-learning about feline diabetes. (I had a cat over 10 years ago who was also diabetic and gave twice daily insulin injections). My, how things seem to have improved since then! I need a refresher course now after all of these years.

I am now faced with our 9 year old (will be 10 in May) gray long furred cat, Morrigan who has just been diagnosed with Diabetes. She came to us at about 3 or 4 weeks old as a feral kitten, very sickly and we nursed her back to health. She has been robust and full of feisty nature all of these years. But, more recently, having lost another of our cats to CKD (at the ripe age of 18 years old), we started paying more attention to Morrigan (who was depressed while losing her "house mate").

We don't know how long she's been diabetic, in spite of many vet trips for check-ups etc. but, suspect that it's been more recently that it's turned into full blown diabetes as we noticed over this winter, more drinking and more urination (hard to tell in a communal kitty box with a CKD cat until he had passed on...THEN, we noticed!) So, off to the vet's we went and a lot of $$$s later, we found out through a full blood testing that she is diabetic.

She has never been easy to handle or deal with. Clipping her claws is like a 2 day process before we need stitches (anyone have a spare suit of armour for us to borrow?)

The first thing we did was read through everything that was talked about in terms of food. We decided, along with our vet, to give it another 10 days (up on "Easter Monday") to try to adjust to a new low carb food BEFORE we titrated what insulin would be required for her. Of course, the first thing was Prescription food...which she HATES!
We switched over to Fancy Feast Pates (something every cat usually loves) but, not her. We've tried Nature's Variety Instinct with little success. Purina Pro Plan pates, and even Merrick (the suggested flavours which are low carb). We've called manufacturers to ensure their formulas and carb counts. (We now have a small cat food store in our home pantry)
The bottom line is that she is a "Kibble Cat" who loved the NOW (Canadian made) dry food (way too high in carbs) and a bit of the Science Diet Mature Adult Turkey formula (maybe, about a quarter can/day if that). She does NOT like canned foods and barely eats the kibbled formulas for the lower carb versions. In short...she has been pretty much starving herself and only eating enough to exist. (Thankfully, NO insulin YET but, likely will be coming).

Have any of you been able to get a "Kibble Junkie" over to canned foods or even to EAT the "low carb" versions of anything when they haven't eaten it before? We are at our wit's end and ready to pull our hair out by the roots with over a week of this now. Please help if you can.
Nice to meet you all and I'll be doing more reading!

Thank you in advance for your help and understanding!
 
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Both my cats were confirmed dry food addicts when Rosa was diagnosed. As were the other 4 cats in the house. It did take me a while to persuade them all to switch over to wet food, but we got there eventually. And I'm only too familiar with cats that are a nightmare to deal with - I can't trim either Rosa or Regan's claws myself - it always requires a vet visit. And giving pills (or trying to) without a second person to hold onto them would result in an ER visit (for me, not the cat)!!

However, Rosa has adjusted surprisingly well overall to both the food and the treatment - she doesn't like all the needles but as long as I do it, she tolerates it (we did try having my husband test her while I was at work but that only worked for a week or so before she decided he was evil and needed to be scratched, bitten and hissed at any time he went near her). Morrigan sounds as though she may be similar - Rosa and Regan were feral as kittens, came to me with Calicivirus and pretty much over-attached themselves to me within a few weeks because they realized I'd made them feel better (and that I was the person who provided food too of course)! They've never been that great with other people, especially people they don't know well and vet visits are a complete nightmare!

So, back to the food issue. I started off with Friskies Flaked Tuna flavor as the one thing my two would both eat that wasn't dry food was canned tuna. I found they would eat that without too much of a problem. Then I gradually started offering the pate type foods mixed with a lot of water so they pretty much ended up as a thick gravy (again, they'd both eat the gravy off canned food but not the food itself). Not only did both of my 2 take to the food and water mix, so did all the other cats in the house - including our housemate's two who I am repeatedly assured both hate wet food of any kind!!

It does take patience and while you're switching her over, you might have to still offer a little kibble...if she really won't eat enough of the wet food, she has to eat something. It might be a case of giving her half and half for a while until she realizes (as I'm sure she will - if my 2 did, there's hope for every cat) that she likes the wet food better.
 
Thank you so very much, Manxcat for sharing your story of hope and help with Rosa and Regan. it sounds like they're related to Morrigan!

Isn't it amazing how many cats we can have (I'm a veteran cat Mama from the day I was born...have always had cats and dogs) yet, each one presents their own problems and issues, personality as well as defence mechanisms? Just as you think you know cats...you find out that you don't and have to go back to the drawing board. Makes me wonder if I need a mental health check-up for continuing to put myself through this. ;)

Don't you wonder how it is that some people get so lucky as to getting cats that they simply toss out food and water to and never take to a vet but, those cats go on to live long lives? Baffles my mind as mine are spoiled rotten with love and everything we can give them and, we send their vets on lovely vacations several times a year by paying their bills. Heck, I think our vets live in castles by now and are on their 3rd brand new cars in 3 years! But, it's my choice to keep having them. Heck, I might live in a castle, go on vacations and drive new cars too if I were receiving my vet payments! ;)

I'm taking what you've said full heartedly and am encouraged that you know what I'm talking about and are proof that there is hope. I tried all of yesterday to hold back on putting out food until scheduled times (she's been a free feeder on kibble). While it didn't net me much, there was some improvement....or maybe, it was because I'd given her some Purina Pro Plan canned pate and she actually liked it? I'm out of that today but, going to pick up more of it (hey, one or 2 of each kind that is acceptable 10% carb content and under from the list (and after calling manufacturers to ensure it) is more than I can pay for or store and some of this has to go back/be exchanged). Unbelievably, she won't touch the Fancy Feast. I've never had a cat that didn't like Fancy Feast...especially, the fish versions, which I know can't be given too often. This morning, she got Merrick Duck Pate. The verdict is still out on that one thus far. I'm giving it the rest of the day to figure it out since I only have the one can of it anyways (sample, sample, sample). Miracle of miracles though, she did finish off an entire 3 oz can of the Pro Plan Pate so, that may be what we'll stick with and keep pushing.

And, yes...I did have to put out 1/3 cup (half of her daily recommended allotment of kibble) for her last night but, it's the Hills Prescription m/d so, not so bad, I guess for now because, as you've said, she does need to eat something and not wither away through her stubbornness. Perhaps, it is just an adjustment until she gets used to the texture of canned food. I also have the Pure Bites freeze dried chicken treats for her but, she doesn't like those much either. Thankfully, our dog does.

I'm sure that I'm going to have more questions as I go along and will have to rely upon everyone here to help me. Even though I've had a diabetic cat before and done this every day....I feel like I'm starting all over again as Morrigan is an entirely different personality than Topper (my previous diabetic cat) was. Topper didn't give me a moment's problem and took to injections with no problem...as long as their was food in front of him. Morrigan...she's at the opposite end of the spectrum. But, if you can do it...you've given me hope that I can do it too.

Thank you! With hugs. :)
 
You are very, very welcome. I remember only too well wondering exactly how I was meant to be able to switch so many cats onto a food they'd never eaten. And that on top of persuading Rosa that the shots and tests weren't something she should try and put me in hospital for! I think it is something about feral or ex-feral cats - no matter how tame they are with 'their' human, they seem to revert all the way back to being feral when something new or unusual happens.

I agree, I grew up with animals as my parents always had pets so I'm used to a house full of cats and/or dogs (with the occasional ferret thrown in for good measure). ;) And yes, even just looking at my two twins now, their needs couldn't be more different. Regan is good with whatever food I give her, water and some fussing and little else and rarely needs a vet visit other than a check up and claw trim. Rosa in spite of the fact that she must be genetically very similar has had bladder stones and now the diabetes and has issues with both her claws and her teeth. I wish I knew what caused them to have such different outcomes from exactly the same food and treatment all their lives!

I don't even like to add up how much I've spent at the vet over the years, and even more so since Rosa's diagnosis in January. The vet is always very happy to see us even though the cats are a nightmare when they're there...no wonder really when we probably just paid for the expansion to their office that they're having done at the moment! ;)

I'm so glad you found at least one type of pate food that Morrigan likes. :) That alone is a big breakthrough for a cat that's usually dry food only. :) If you find the Purina is the only one she'll eat for now, I'd let her have that for a few days and then try adding in just a little of something else (just a teaspoon at a time) so she gets the idea that other flavors are OK to eat. My two are less keen on the Fancy Feast pate than they are on Friskies and will still do anything for one of the fish flavors over the meat ones most days. In the end, I've stopped worrying too much about the fish - I don't give just tuna flavor very often, but I let them have the whitefish or salmon flavors fairly regularly. I know it's not always recommended and a lot of cats have allergy issues with fish, but all the cats here seem to be fine with it so for the moment I've given up that battle and I let them have it at least 2 or 3 times a week. I still free-feed with the wet food. With 6 cats in the house, it would be impossible to get them all on the same schedule and Rosa's always been free-fed anyway. I'm also not sure that expecting any of them to be hungry when I say they should be is going to work so well. A lot of diabetic cats seem to do well with free-feeding of a low carb food - it's less of a strain on their pancreas to eat little and often than it is to have just 2 bigger meals during the day so if you can't get her on a fixed feeding schedule, I wouldn't worry too much about that. :) For now, I would continue giving her a little of her dry food while she transitions over to wet. I was still feeding a little dry food to Regan where Rosa couldn't get to it as I felt mean making her switch foods when she didn't have any problems. After a few weeks, she started leaving the dry food and going straight to the wet instead - that's when I knew I could stop giving her any dry food at all!

I found Rosa got bored with the Pure Bites chicken after a while so now I buy a variety of them - the shrimp and salmon are favorites of course. I think the stronger smell from the shrimp variety in particular is appealing to cats. And as it's only a tiny amount a few times a day, if she'll accept those as treats they might be a good starting point.

We question our sanity several times a week. Last year we said 'no more cats' then we got another one anyway. But she needed a good home and we couldn't refuse her that!

And please do keep asking whatever questions you need to - there's always someone here to help or at the least offer reassurance. :) Big hugs for you and Morrigan :bighug:
 
Thank you again, Manxcat. It's SO nice to know that there are others in this world who know what you're going through...not just with diabetes but, also in terms of the "joys" of pets and vets, foods, issues and being poor because we've chosen to have pets. ;)

One friend, (now with a very ill dog) said to me, "why are we so stupid to keep having pets when we could be on a beach somewhere like our vets are doing?" I had to laugh and all that I could respond with was..."yeah...why are we doing this?"

The truth is, I think, we love animals and our lives wouldn't be complete without them but, like you, after we lost "Copper" (our 18 year old CKF cat nearly a year ago), I said the same thing..."no more cats/pets". Most of that was the pain of loss. And, I haven't brought in a new kitten (in spite of my vet's insistence that I do it "for Morrigan"....translation: "I'm going to lose money if you don't keep pets and I need to put 2 kids through college and my wife wants to renovate our house for the 23rd time!"). I don't know but, maybe I'm just getting older and the work, worry, time, money, energy etc. are greater than my heart? Maybe, it's that while other people have figured out that having a pet is a lot of work and money that could be spent elsewhere, I don't feel that my life is the same without pets. Also, like you, I keep falling prey to animals who need a loving home. But, whatever it is, I keep amassing them, loving them and sending vets on lovely vacations. ;)
(It feels good to actually say this outright for a change to someone who understands! :) )

I just got back from Pet Valu where I returned a whole whack of cans of food that I know Morrigan won't eat and picked up more of the ones I have had success with. Like you, I know that the fish flavours are the ones that she likes best but, I'm restraining from too much of those. There's an older man who owns and runs this particular store and he just smiled as I went in and said, "Again? This is 4 times in less than a week and I was closed for one day!" I laughed and said, (papers with the printed acceptable foods from this site highlighted and starred with my own system under my arm) "what can I say? I love you so much that I just cannot stay away from you!" He laughed and told me that I'd made his day. I'm sure I did. HE is going on holiday next month for 2 weeks! ;) I can tell you that I'm going nowhere on vacation anytime in the foreseeable future though.

The ironic part is, I've been a primary caregiver to many different family members and pets over the past 15 years. They've all passed away. Just as I thought that I was done with that and perhaps, had a rest coming my way, Morrigan now requires me to be on schedule with insulin shots twice a day. *SIGH* I don't mind and would do anything to keep her healthy and here with us but, the idea that we now have to continue being around every 12 hours for shots is a little disappointing and disgruntling. I remember leaving events or making appointments or whatever, working it all around Topper's shots and feeding schedules. Now, I'm back to it. Oh well, I know this is part of the "deal" that we make when we take in pets and love them so much. Besides, we have to be home to let our dog in and out anyways so, I guess it's no big deal at the end of the day. :)

So, armed now with more of two brands of foods (Pro Plan and Merrick from the list) I will keep on trying but, she is going to require me leaving her some dry food out at times and like you've said, the wet food. Eventually, I'm hoping to get her over completely to pure wet food but, if I don't...well, there's only so much that I have control over. Sometimes, I have found that in spite of doing everything "by the book", it still didn't do any better than letting the pet be themselves and do my best to be as close to what is necessary than to force everything that is supposed to be "best for them". She's going to have to give a little and I'm going to have to bend a little. We'll eventually strike the right balance, I HOPE! *Not sure if I'll require a psych ward first though* ;)

I did chuckle at you saying that you figured that YOU would end up in hospital! It reminds me of me. I got infection once in a cat scratch and ended up on antibiotics for over a week. The cat was fine. Actually, I begged the doc to PUT me into the hospital to get a rest...3 squares a day, no cooking, no cleaning, no cat and dog waitressing, tv, reading and sleeping. He refused. Darn it! ;)

Thank you again, Manxcat. It actually felt like I was "live journalling" there and that felt good to know that someone else can understand and joke around about things in spite of the nerves that come with all of this.

HUGS to you for it and I'm sure I'll be asking many more questions as time goes on.

Happy Easter (if you celebrate it...if not...Happy Passover or...Happy Day Off)
 
You are definitely NOT alone with this problem. My Menace (4 yr. old diabetic Dx Feb 2015) is a kibble addict who has refused to eat any wet food since we adopted her at 10 wks old and she wants nothing to do with the low carb kibble I've tried so far. I have switched her to Taste of the Wild Rocky Mountain which is still way too high in carbs but considerably better than her preference and at least she is eating albeit reluctantly. I have tried Wellness Core, Orijen, Instinct and GO along with Purina DM and Hill's M/D from the vet. My kitchen is starting to look like a pet food store!

I have 2 other cats, Myster (17yr old) and Worf (4yr old). Both eat Fancy Feast/Friskies pates. Worf loves the Orijen. Unfortunately Myster, my senior citizen, who was brought up on Whiskas Meaty Selections by my Mother, would not entertain any other kibble so Menace was eating that as well as Taste of the Wild and is now holding out for the Whiskas. She was OK with the Hill's M/D for a few days (it doesn't look optimal carb wise to me) and then started a hunger strike until I gave in and gave her a little of the Whiskas.

I have tried cooking the wet food into kibble, putting parmesan cheese or tuna water on acceptable food choices, adding water to the wet food to make it like a gravy, and syringe feeding a little baby food to get her used to the different texture. Menace will not touch sardines, tuna, or cooked chicken. The only soft food Menace has ever eaten was a tiny piece of tortiere (meat pie) that fell on the floor by accident. Perhaps I should have used that opportunity to develop her taste for soft food with a few more bits. LOL!:banghead:

I am going to get some EVO and order some samples of Young Again to see if she will eat one of those. And if need be I will visit the pet pharmacy for some Forti Flora although I don't relish spending another $70 only to have my hopes dashed and my wallet lightened further with no positive result. I'm right behind you on the road to the psych ward!

Menace is still running high BG numbers and peeing like a champ :( but I could not ask for a more co-operative patient! She often comes to get me when it is time for her blood check and shot! Gotta love her even if she is taking "finicky cat" to a whole new level!
 
Louellen said:
I got infection once in a cat scratch and ended up on antibiotics for over a week. The cat was fine. Actually, I begged the doc to PUT me into the hospital to get a rest...3 squares a day, no cooking, no cleaning, no cat and dog waitressing, tv, reading and sleeping. He refused. Darn it! ;)
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I can agree with that - a week in hospital would be like a vacation at the moment with all the various cats and their problems!! ;)

And I'll take a day off under any guise at all that it's offered...I'm not going to be picky about an extra day to do as little as possible!! :D

And yes, I totally agree - I don't think a house is a home without pets...no matter how much they cost or how much stress they put us through, they're more than worth it for the love they give us. :) Well done on holding out on getting another cat though - you're doing better than we are with that!! ;)
 
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A backup option is Young Again 0 Carb dry food, available on the internet,
 
Thank you, Mr. WorfMen's Mom.
You and I are, I'm sure, not alone in having a small pet food store on our counters, in our fridges and pantry cupboards. *SIGH* I feel like I'm a "Cat Waitress". She has more choices than WE do!

There are a LOT more choices in the U.S. than there are in Canada and I think I'll have to get used to ordering online, perhaps. A lot of the brands mentioned, we don't have up here...YET. Wonder if we will ge them eventually?

I have just watched the vet tech do a glucose check today. Even SHE admitted that she hates doing it. We do have a spare glucose monitor for her as hubby is diabetic so, we have a spare. It didn't look all that easy to do and this woman is a pro at it. Cats seem to generally be better behaved in the vet's offices than at home for us so, while she managed to get a sample...I'm a little worried about us being able to get it at home but, I guess I will keep the giant tube of Polysporin at home FOR US! ;)

She is in the vet's overnight and tomorrow for a curve because her numbers had lowered quite a bit by diet alone. She's still higher than normal but, in 10 days, her BG had dropped with just diet change so, the vet is now a little dubious as to what to do and wants to watch her over the day tomorrow to see where to go from here (i.e.: Insulin or not, what level etc.). I HATED leaving her there! I feel so horrible tonight in knowing that she's alone, without us, in that cage at the vet's but, it's the ONLY way that we can really get a good measure as a starting point for him to figure out whether she needs the insulin or what level to give her now since the diet change has been working.
Believe it or not (I'm sure you do)...I have 7 cans of opened foods in the fridge with lids, all only partially eaten and like you...I've tried everything but the FortiFlora thus far. I DO have some (our dog required it for a bout of colitis) so, I might try that. Of course, watch the vet say, "I gave her the prescription diet formula and she ate it all!" Yeah, she MAY but, I left cans of the food that we feed her at home as well as some lower carb dry food that she will sometimes nibble on (Nature's Valley Instinct Chicken). I hadn't ever heard nor seen the Young Again! I'm going to have to look online and see if I can get that for her! It's worth a shot (pun intended). ;)

It's always so nice to bring home a kitten, love him/her, play, can't wait to get home to them and have few big vet bills for a few years...THEN...WHAM....you may as well mortgage your home! ;)

I'm glad that I'm not alone in this and I thank you so very much for your response. It makes me feel better! :)

HUGS!!!!!!!!!!! From one fellow frazzled cat mom to another. :)
 
manxcat419 said:
I can agree with that - a week in hospital would be like a vacation at the moment with all the various cats and their problems!! ;)

And I'll take a day off under any guise at all that it's offered...I'm not going to be picky about an extra day to do as little as possible!! :D

And yes, I totally agree - I don't think a house is a home without pets...no matter how much they cost or how much stress they put us through, they're more than worth it for the love they give us. :) Well done on holding out on getting another cat though - you're doing better than we are with that!! ;)
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Manxmom...we just went onto living on a pension as hubby retired and I'm on a bit of a hiatus from my business due to health issues so, money is scarce for us. That makes the decision a LOT easier to NOT allow another cat into our home right now. We simply cannot afford it. Trust me...it's not so much will power as if someone came to me with a kitten in bad need of a home...yeah...I'd have one heck of a time turning that baby down. But, I recognize that as they age, health issues become a reality and the vet bills knock us over. I can't stand the idea of not doing everything we can for them so, out the window goes vacations, new clothes (and shoes), new car (in spite of ours being 15 years old), renovations to the house etc., unless absolutely needed and whatever else we can think of to deny ourselves. ;)

But, yes...I have to admit that my house just doesn't feel like a home without pets in it. Granted...I might have a much nicer, newer home if I were to give them up but, honestly...I couldn't see myself being HAPPY without them. :)

Ok...well...I guess we'll just have to (as Steven Tyler would sing) "Dream on...dream on...." ;)
HUGS Manxcat!!!!! :)
 
BJM said:
A backup option is Young Again 0 Carb dry food, available on the internet,
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Thank you BJM! I'm going to look that up now! I didn't know that existed!!! Hope I can get it...and...she LIKES it! :) HUGS for that info!!!! :)
 
Just called Young Again to order samples of the zero carb food for my little clowder.

Jennifer at Young Again told me that our government is making changes to pet food import regulations as of June and the changes may make it difficult if not impossible for them to ship to Canada going forward. The company is currently weeding through the red tape being imposed to get a better understanding of the new requirements and what this will mean for their Canadian customers and their business which obviously benefits from cross border clients. Didn't get a lot of details but it sounds like things are being tightened up to deal with threats like Mad Cow, Bird Flu etc. These changes sound like they could impact other US brands currently available here (Stella and Chewy, Purebites etc. )

I also asked Jennifer if they were giving any consideration to offering the product through a Canadian distributor or partnership. She said they have tried to get some of our businesses interested but they always seem to get road blocked by the prohibitive costs of import permits vs. volume of sales. The problem being they cannot prove turn over volumes until they get their foot in the door in Canada. It appears the term "free trade" comes with a lot of baggage that prohibits rather than promotes the concept!

I considered going across the border to buy some food but found out I cannot bring food back unless I take a cat with me (that would be quite the nightmare)and only bring back what that animal is going to consume up to a specified limit. I am certainly hoping that Menace will like this food but that will be little comfort if I can't get it in the future!:banghead:

I am going to do a little more digging to see if I can get more info on the changes.
 
Wow, MrWorfmen's Mom! I didn't realize how close we live to one another until I just looked at your profile (still getting used to the boards in here)! I'm pretty much your neighbour as I'm right on the boarder. That's incredible. :)

I found the same thing as you did in a little search (I didn't make the call once I realized it wasn't available to be shipped here) so, you got much more information than I did with your call. Thank you for sharing that info with me (and any other Canadian looking for help and reading our discussions).

Canada seems to be tight with its regulations and in some ways, that's a good thing but, in other ways, it's rather unhelpful to those of us who are trying our best and cannot get what we need from Canada. We simply don't get a lot of what the U.S. has and trying to find alternatives is rough as a lot of studies etc. are from the U.S.. It makes it harder on us to deal with these types of situations because we can't follow the same protocols in a lot of instances. Yet, on the flip side of the coin, I've seen medications (human meds) that have been banned up here and still available in the U.S. but, eventually....they have been removed when people have died and class action law suits happening. So, who is right and who is wrong? There are no answers to this right now it seems. And, certainly....the U.S. does have difficulty in bringing U.S. businesses up into Canada or having the Canadian versions work the same as they do in the U.S.. I have NO clue what the answers are either. :(

To fill you in too though, I did call a Canadian company called Nutram that manufactures both dog and cat foods. They allegedly have a new (non-prescription) line out for diabetic cats (unfortunately, not launching until the end of April) in kibble form. Their regular product is WAY too high in carbs, coming in at a whopping 25% on dry matter analysis. However, they are supposed to have one of their nutritionists call me back with the numbers for their diabetic formulation. I will keep you informed when they do get back to me...or, should I say "if" they do (don't worry, I will be calling again) :)

In the meantime, Morrigan is in the vet's for the day, having a curve done. She was not yet on insulin (dietary change first) so, today will be a deciding factor. The 2 readings they got today were 17 and then, 15 (without insulin) so, I'm sure he's going to titrate her dosage to fit her "curve". That gives me a bit more reassurance but, my wallet will be a lot lighter by the end of today for sure. I guess peace of mind is worth it for now...UNTIL I can get used to doing home monitoring with a spare glucose meter that we've got at home already from my husband's diabetes. Both we and she, will have to get used to doing the home testing as I can't afford the big bills from the vet as most of can't. I have learned though that by trying to cut corners (until I'm able to do things proficiently on my own) is a BAD idea and only leads to further complications and more money down the road. So, this is a start...especially, since she can be a very difficult cat to do anything with...including claw clipping! I should own shares in the bandage companies and Polysporin. ;)

Thank you again! Hugs
 
Have you tried Fortiflora? It's a probiotic, and my cat thinks it is crack! He eats his food so quickly when I use that he sometimes throws it up from eating too fast!
 
@Erin Lewis and Boops - I will get some FortiFlora if all else fails but at $70.00 for a package up here, I am reluctant to go that route just yet. I tried crushing up some Whiskas which she loves, on top of all the low carb foods because I read somewhere that it is covered in a FortiFlora type coating and that still resulted in a hunger strike! That makes me think my little angel will be that 1 cat in a million who won't fall for the FortiFlora ploy.

@rhiannon and shadow - Had no luck trying to find the Wysong Epigen 90. Store had other Wysong products but not that one. I would order it online however, it too is a US product and may be or become an issue for the same reasons as the Young Again. The other issue I have with that option is that I saw a message from one of the forum members the other day saying the formula has recently been changed and her cat suddenly got very sick on the food. After researching further, there seem to be a lot of other reviews on the net suggesting the new formula is not well tolerated by a lot of pets. I want to do what I can for my little girl but I won't risk adding another health issue for her to battle.

I noticed someone suggesting using the Stella and Chewy without adding water so I grabbed a package of that to try. Problem there is that although my store carries the brand, they had only one flavour and told me they are having issues getting that product too (they only had 2 packs left) although she didn't seem to know why! This too is a US product thus the same concerns.

If I could just get Menace onto something she likes that is good for her, I'd be able to take a more aggressive approach to switching her to soft food. Right now my goal is to just make sure she eats something because she is proving to be far better at winning this game of wits than I am !:arghh:

@Louellen - You are certainly the proactive one! :bighug: Fingers crossed that Nutram's new product meets our needs and is available soon because sometimes it takes a while for the stores to stock new products !

How did Morrigan fare at vet's? With those low numbers her insulin needs should be small and hopefully a little longer on a low carb diet will get her on a honeymoon! I am really frustrated with Menace's numbers. We just bumped her up to 2U four days ago and yesterday her AMPS was 19.1. I was hopeful her numbers were finally falling (she's been running between 17 and 24 but mostly low 20's) but her PMPS was 27.1, the highest she's ever been. I was out last evening and when I got home her food bowl was nearly empty. Not sure if she had just chowed down or if my other little guy had helped her but I couldn't get her to eat again and decided to shoot anyway. That said, I got up a couple of times through the night to check on her. Having other cats in the house is a bit problematic when I have to go out and get home just at shot time.

Where in Ontario are you?
 
there are other additives you can try to entice.

freeze dried anything.... crumbled up on top of food. ( mine likes shrimp, turkey, won't touch chicken )
parmesan cheese or other white cheeses ( mine likes monterey jack)
tuna juice or even a bite of human tuna ( you could freeze little bites in an ice cube tray)
when I'm desperate, i've even sprinkled crumbs of bacon that I cooked
 
@rhiannon and shadow - Thanks for some new ideas. I will try some Monterey Jack and Mozzarella. Hadn't thought of those. I have tried Parmesan, catnip, tuna, tuna juice, sardines, sardine juice & Purebites chicken crumbs (can't get all the flavours in my neck of the woods) to no avail. Little monkey will lick parmesan out of my hand but won't touch the food she WILL eat if I sprinkle it with parmesan or purebites. She will eat the Purebites as treats. :rolleyes:She won't touch tuna, sardines, shrimp, cooked turkey, cooked chicken and has had opportunities to try bacon and walked away disgusted with the very suggestion that she should eat it. If I wrote about all my efforts to date (have tried to get her on soft food for the past 4 years!), I'd be writing an epic novel. This cat tries to bury soft food as if it were her waste and she is one energetic little sweeper as can be attested to by the scratch marks on my wall beside my other cat's soft food bowl. She is named "Menace" for a reason! :DBut that's part of the reason I love her and will try everything in my power to solve this dilemma but so far she is outwitting me at every turn.

Just had a weird thought. One of my past babies loved smoked oysters. Back to the store! Thanks for turning on my thinking cap!:bighug:
 
I call it my acme hat.
I helped a friend who had a cat that reacted with fear to wet food.... and she never converted. It's how we discovered the young again.

we laughed about filling a room full of little bowls of wet and watching the cat leap over it all.... ( cartoon like)
 
LOL! That's too funny! I did something similar with all the "lower carb" kibble I bought.........multiple bowls on the floor for a couple of days. Menace would do a cursory check of each bowl and then go sit at the edge of the kitchen floor looking at me with her big eyes. After I explained the situation to her again for the umpteenth time, she'd walk away with a mournful meow! Eventually, because she had to eat, I'd end up delivering her food I knew she would eat wherever she was in the house. Oh man does she have me wrapped around her little paw! I have a very small kitchen and my antics stepping over food bowls to make my own meals would have had you rolling on the floor. I gave up totally exasperated when I finally stepped in a bowl and sent the contents flying in all directions. I'm pretty sure my young male has gained a pound from the ongoing albeit smaller buffet that remains as he likes to sample everything!
 
You can bake canned food into a pilaf or crunchy texture using a jelly roll pan and spreading the food thinly. Use a cracker baking temperature.Turn occasionally.
Of course, you better like the smell of baking cat food!
 
My ex cat is a crunchies adict. However, she will eat wellness pate turkey or chicken. Also a lot of cats like tiki cat. My current cat sometimes likes the gormet carnivour varieties of Tiki. Tiki is expensive though since low calorie. Good luck!
 
I tried making a concoction of wet cat food, parmesan cheese, egg and a bit of ground up low carb kibble and extruding it into kibble form and then baking it. The smell was horrendous and it was a complete fail! I also tried just the food as you suggested but again to no avail. Thankfully it was warm enough outside to open a window for the second attempt.

The good news is that I was finally able to find the EVO kibble and Menace is eating it! Hallelujah! :joyful:I am waiting for samples of Young Again Zero Carb to arrive. But if she rejects that or it becomes difficult to get across the border in the future I have an alternative under 10% carb that she seems to like.

I'm going to take a short hiatus from my 4 yr. old project to switch Menace to canned food and then re-group using all the wonderful suggestions I've received and seen on this forum. I have a tiny kitchen so I have to figure out what to do with all the open bags of rejected kibble before I can start a collection of canned food. :rolleyes:

This forum is nothing short of a godsend. Just knowing I am not the only one dealing with issues helps immensely. I have and continue to learn so much from everyone here. Thanks to everyone for your ideas!:bighug:
 
er ... I meant take plain canned food and bake it, not necessarily come up with a new recipe!
Kudos on the creativity, though.
 
MrWorfMensMom...I hear you loud and clear on all of this. I am also going INSANE with it all! I feel like a nervous wreck too and am having the SAME issues that you are having.
I tried the FortiFlora and it worked...but, I had to keep adding it. She threw up! No more of that! Money down the drain for sure.
Like you...tuna water, tuna flakes (real tuna), crumbled freeze dried treats on top, pieces of kibble, parmesan cheese...you name it...I've tried it too. STILL...she "grazes". She does NOT eat a full meal and will NOT eat solely canned food. We still have to keep putting down the m/d kibble which I know isn't great but, she HAS to eat or I worry about liver issues.

We've had Morrigan at the vet's twice now in 2 weeks. Yesterday was the "deciding factor". She is now on Lantus. Her numbers were 19, 17 and 15 (they ended it there as the doc said "insulin time...diet is working but, not enough".

He wanted to give her 2 units 2 times per day but, I was nervous at starting at that level since she can drop to 13 (AT the vet's where she is nervous) so, what does she do at home especially, when she's not really eating????

After reading more and more...I called him back and questioned the 2 units. He agreed to start with 1 unit. So, she got her first shot today using the pen itself as the injector with the needles that go with it. I still haven't done a home reading (but, did one at the vets in front of the vet tech to instruct me). I'm afraid that i won't find her once I start that! So, I'm going to attempt it in between shots as doing so right before a meal would have her running and hiding and NOT eating, dragging her out and trying to get her to eat to give a shot. SIGH....SCREAM!!!! Hair gone by roots now!

I'm hoping for more info from fellow moms an dads and hoping to get there with time and patience. I have to keep reminding myself that we can lead a horse to water but, we cannot make them drink no matter how much they need to do it! We can only provide, urge, coax and then...heaven help us.

I'm SO close to where you live (the area). I'm RIGHT on the border in the west end of Toronto. I don't know where exactly you are in your area but, I'm right there. :)
 
We use insulin syringes to withdraw the insulin and inject it as we can scale the dose by smaller amounts than 1 unit.

And you were smart to start with just 1 unit, since you've been working on the diet change as that can lower the glucose from 100-200 mg/dL (5.5-11 mmol/L).
 
On Lantus, it really doesn't matter so much if she won't eat a full meal in one sitting. It's absolutely fine to free-feed her with the low carb food so she can pick at it all day. Because Lantus is one of the gentler insulins, she really doesn't need a whole lot of food on board quickly before onset - it's fine if she eats a little on and off through most of the cycle, though we do recommend taking the food away 2 hours before her next shot is due so that the reading you get that tells you whether or not it's safe to give the shot isn't influenced by food.

2 units, even for a 14lb cat (I think you gave that as her weight on another thread?) is a little high on starting dose - using the calculation of 0.25 units per kg, she'd come in around 1.5 for a usual starting dose, though starting at 1 unit may well give you more peace of mind while you're getting used to the whole new routine. :) And that's fine - this has to work for you as well as for Morrigan. :bighug:
 
Thank you BJM....I know that if I have to go to half units...the injector is NOT the way to go and that may become the case where it gets upped to 1.5 or so whatever. When that happens (I'd like to think it won't but, have to be realistic), I will go to the syringes and draw from the capsule as others are doing too. I did have a diabetic cat over 10 years ago but, I'm relearning everything. It's like starting all over again. This pen seemed "novel" in approach but, I think it has its own learning curve that goes with it too. I WAS used to syringes as well with our other diabetic cat and *may* find them easier than the injector. I just find that with 1 unit, I have a hard time with that tiny an amount. Who knows what the injector is doing but, because it's said to be "more accurate" in dosage for such tiny amounts...that is why I decided to give it a try. First jab today and I didn't get that right because I didn't push the plunger button hard enough. Had to jab her again but, she got it. I THINK (no wetness around her)

Thank you BJM ...I see you helping so many of us "newbie crazies" in here LOL ;)
 
Manxcat....thank you SO much for your response. It makes me feel a lot better to know that she doesn't need a full meal and that the Lantus is NOT like the older insulin that I used to give my previous diabetic cat 10 plus years ago. Things have changed since then.
I will try that 2 hours up before the injection part. I might even make it 4 hours. Thus far, she's gone for 5 hours without eating (sleep time). I guess I will learn her patterns more clearly in connection with the shots. But, it helps me settle to know that it doesn't have to be a full meal like our previous cat who had NO problem eating his full canned food diet before a shot.

Thank you also for agreeing with my "nervy stomach" that 2 units was too much to start off with. I did that calculation as well and that's why we spoke to the vet this morning by phone and he agreed to lower the starting dose to 1 unit instead of the 2. He really doesn't sound too informed about diabetes to be honest and that leads me to doubt his calls on things with it. I shouldn't, I guess but, I do. I'm sure he hates me for reading on the net and asking so many questions or re-questioning his decisions but, hey...I pay his bills and send him on lovely vacations and his wife must love the renovations I pay for them to have done LOL ;)

We just tried a home monitoring glucose measure. I got just enough of a blood bubble but, the strip read "error". I tried again and got nothing so, she was freaking out and I let her go. She'd hiding under the laundry tub right now. I may not see her for another 3 to 5 hours! Poor thing. I tried to pat her and give her a small treat but, she just wanted off of the couch and in the basement, under the tub. Oh boy. No reading and a scared and hiding cat! I've seen her hide before for 3 days on a trip to a cottage for a week. She came out at night while we were sleeping. I HOPE this is NOT (knock on wood not) the case with this because we're going to have one miserable cat and I'm going to be in a psych ward! She seems to do better with the spring loaded lancet tool than doing it by hand but, it's the spot that I have to get! Wow...tension, tension, tension. But, I would have loved to have seen that reading number. Darn it!
 
With the pen injector, I believe the advice is to leave it in the skin a moment or two to ensure all the insulin goes in.
 
BJM said:
With the pen injector, I believe the advice is to leave it in the skin a moment or two to ensure all the insulin goes in.
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Yes, BJM...i do believe you are right. I counted to 5 seconds before I pulled it out. That's what they say to do in the literature and the videos I've watched. I think if it's a higher dosage...they want 10 seconds...but, try that with a squirming cat! ;) I may need to mainline some valium via IV soon! LOL ;)
 
You are so welcome to all and any information and reassurance I can give you. I remember only too well the first time I gave Rosa a shot. I'd been told by my vet that she had to eat before she got the shot - I spent 2 hours trying to get her to eat the prescription food that she hated so I could give her the shot. Then someone on here explained to me that that information only relates to the older insulins and that I could give her the shot and let her eat when she was ready. I was so grateful to everyone that night for making sure I had the right information and I wasn't going to do anything to put her at risk so I'm only too happy to be able to reassure you the same way. :)

I think almost all of us pull the food 2 hours before we do our pre-shot test. There have been times I've forgotten - none of us are perfect and we all get it wrong sometimes - thankfully those were times I was able to be here to monitor and make sure I hadn't shot an artificially inflated number. Once you know how food affects her levels you might find you need to take the food away a little earlier, or that you can leave it a little later but the 2 hours is a good starting point where you can be sure her number won't be influenced by something she's just eaten.

As long as your vet will work with you and is happy to listen to the information you're getting, I wouldn't switch vets if you're happy with them otherwise. A lot of vets don't seem to be all that informed on diabetes in cats and especially not with the newer insulins. The important thing is having a vet who will listen and is prepared to accept the data you're collecting as you go along on what happens with her numbers. That way they can learn along with you and will still be prepared to prescribe the insulin when it's needed. I couldn't agree more - you pay them...a lot...and they have to be prepared to accept that as a paying customer you have the right to question their decisions and do what you think is best for your cat. Or at least if they want to keep enjoying their vacations they do anyway! ;) I'm glad they agreed with reducing to 1 units - when this is all new and you're learning to test you definitely don't want her on a high starting dose that could take her low very quickly.

You will get there with the home testing. It's all practice. I spent 2 days on and off trying to get my first reading but it does get easier every time. Every attempt makes it easier for the next time whether you get a successful reading or not as her ears will learn to bleed in the first couple of weeks. That makes it much easier to get a successful test every time. She will learn too that it doesn't really hurt (it really doesn't - that outside edge of a cat's ear has hardly any nerve endings and Rosa doesn't even really notice the needle). All I would say is to only try a maximum of 3 times at each attempt - if you don't get blood after 3 pokes with the needle, let her go and wait half an hour or so before you try again so she's not getting too stressed by it all. You might want to try putting her under a bright light so you can see the capillaries in her ear - it makes it easier to aim for the right spot! I doubt she'll get so scared of you that she hides all the time - both of my 2 have hidden for quite a while any time I've moved them to a new house, but Rosa has only ever hidden for maybe half an hour or so when she's had one of her days when she doesn't want to be tested. I hope that's going to be the same for Morrigan too!
 
Louellen said:
Yes, BJM...i do believe you are right. I counted to 5 seconds before I pulled it out. That's what they say to do in the literature and the videos I've watched. I think if it's a higher dosage...they want 10 seconds...but, try that with a squirming cat! ;) I may need to mainline some valium via IV soon! LOL ;)
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Yes, even after 10 seconds with 18 units Levemir I still got a drop of insulin on the pen needle tip after pulling the needle out. I injected MurrFee when he finishing his food
 
Thank you so much, Manxcat. I really appreciate you being here for us all.

Morrigan did come out, ate a little something, groomed herself in the hallway behind me, looked out the front door beside our dog (about her size) and flicked her tail at him as he tried to play with her (usual antics between the 2 LOL). I did stop at the 3 pokes this time. I will try it again in another hour or 2. I know that I've used my hubby's glucose meter on myself (he doesn't use medication or insulin, diet controlled) and "ouch" (ok, I used stronger words than that but, I'll keep it PG rated here ;) ). I'm happy to know that the edge of the ear on a cat doesn't have the nerve endings that fingers do in humans. I will try the light. That's a great idea...mind you...she's only giving me a few seconds before she wants DOWN from the couch (try to catch her when she's been sleeping and rather docile...but, she quickly becomes ALERT!). I'm assuming that I shouldn't panic first shot/first day at 1 unit and watching her for other signs/symptoms as well. I will keep on trying. I just might not get a full day's curve YET. I consider myself lucky to get ONE reading right now...trying for mid-cycle reading and NOT trying to do it before she eats.

I am also happy to hear again about the food issue with the Lantus as that is a relief for sure to know. The moment I think she's done...10, 15 or 20 minutes later, she's back for more and continues on small meals (nibbles) thoughout the day but, I figure that changing everything all at once is only upsetting for her and therefore, for me as well. Hubby is very calm but, even HE is "rattled". He's just read me "the riot act" about learning that I'm not a vet/a vet tech and I will learn as we go and not to expect everything to be perfect (he caught me crying at another post I made and responses there about my frustration and told me I looked like a stressed mess. I do! I really do. I had to put on some blush to get colour into my face. That can't be good as I can't afford to get sick and be off of work. How else will I send my vet on his vacations. And...he told me the other day that he's needing a new car since his is 6 years old. Meanwhile, I'm driving a 15 year old car around and after I've made a good payment chunk on his...I won't be able to afford another one for ME!
 
Larry and Kitties...I had the same thing after I took the needle out...one tiny drop at the tip. I think this might have to do with the negative pressure in the ampule???? The pressure inside the body must have a little resistance so...a drop might not get in??? Not sure but, I'll soon decide if this is for me or, whether using the pen and syringe is the best method for us both. I might be heading to the pharmacy to get those 100U syringes in a day or 2????
 
I'm so pleased to hear she came out of hiding after not too long. It sounds as though she wasn't really all that traumatized - just making a bit of a drama as cats do! ;)

Oh I agree - I've caught myself with the lancet taking it out of the pen and it really stings but it doesn't seem to bother cats at all. I know the feeling of having a cat that you can't restrain but that won't sit still for long either - the more practice you get the quicker you'll be at getting enough blood and then it gets so much easier as you'll be done by the time she wants to get down. I think she'll be fine with whatever tests you can get for now. If you can get something mid-cycle then it's always worth doing that to get an idea of where the dose is getting her to but if you can't then yes, being alert for anything unusual is also important. :) It takes a few days at least to be ready to do a full curve and it really isn't necessary to begin with - by the time it is, you'll be a pro at getting those tests done!

Rosa is very much a 'mouthful of food here and there' cat. She much prefers to be able to go back to her food bowl every half hour or so. It's actually healthier for them in a lot of ways as it doesn't put the strain of dealing with a big meal on their pancreas when it's trying to get some healing time in. And I agree with your hubby - we all do the best we can and it's a very steep learning curve. It takes time to get everything to where you want it to be but as long as you're doing what you can for her and keeping her safe by questioning things like a high starting dose, you will get there. Getting so stressed you get sick isn't going to help you or Morrigan so please try and take some time out where you can just relax and have some quiet time for yourself - it's very important as managing this condition is a marathon not a sprint. Slow and steady will get you better results in the end than trying to rush everything and getting over-stressed.

It is frustrating to find all the money has gone to the vet when there are other things you needed it for really but, like all of us, we put our cats first even if it means doing without things ourselves. Again, all I can say is that it does get better - Rosa cost me a lot in the first week or so she was diagnosed but once I'd paid the vet and bought the insulin it does become more manageable - then it's just the 'maintenance' costs like test strips which isn't as bad. :)
 
I find using a syringe easier. I only used the pen and en needles since I got a good deal on the Levemir pens on Craig's list andI also already has some pen needles. So I just used them up.
 
Thank you, Larry. I'm thinking that I may switch to the syringes as well. I'm not liking the pen much (as an injector) as I have only given 3 shots thus far and seem to wonder if I got that in fully. I may not be but, there's no wetness afterwards and I hold it for 5 seconds. I think the syringes might be better but, loading them accurately for the 1 unit always makes me wonder too. "Too much, too little?" I guess it's all what we get used to, huh? I'm thinking that perhaps, I might get some syringes and try to see which one works best for me too. Thank you! :)
 
Louellen - OMG! When you said "on the border", I thought you meant the border bt CDN and US ......maybe Niagara Falls, ON/Niagara Falls, NY or Windsor/Detroit. I never dreamed you meant the border of Toronto. I too am on the west border ...my closest main intersection is Rathburn and Martin Grove. HOWDY neighbour! Which vet clinic are you using? I use Islington Village and I LOVE both vets and all the staff. Treatment plan is always a discussion NOT an edict and they get back to me lickity split when I have questions! I email curves and get feedback the same day, and I'm not being charged for my OCD worried Mom calls. Couldn't ask for better!

Sorry to hear the diet change didn't do enough to keep Morrigan off the juice. Don't sweat the BG tests & shots! As a retired R.N. I am happy to tell you but embarrassed to admit, that I shook like a leaf doing both for Menace for the first couple of weeks. I kept telling myself I was just out of practice but the truth is, it's tougher to poke loved ones than it is strangers and much harder to poke my cat than my humans! :pAnd of course human patients are a little more co-operative about staying still or presenting themselves in a well lit area further complicating the situation! As soon as I calmed down, so did my furbaby and now amazingly she often comes to get me when it's time for her pre-shot test and injection. I think they must start realizing that you are making them feel better with all the fuss.:cat:

Menace is not a cuddle cat. She will hop on my lap only if I put a blanket across my lap for her to hide under! I can maul the daylights out of her while she is lounging anywhere in the house but she does not like being picked up and puts up a fight with any attempt to restrain her in any way. If she doesn't come to get me (random test times or curve days), I end up on the floor doing Yoga poses in order to complete the testing but it works for us. The only time I run into problems is if her step brother Worf comes by to see why Menace is getting all the attention or to initiate some play with one of us. Then things get a little more complicated! :arghh:

As others have said, Morrigan's ears will bleed better with time. Menace now bleeds so well I sometimes think I've hit the vein even when I know I didn't poke anywhere near it. I'm a neophyte at this too but most times I can now get a test, food and shot done in 5 minutes or less as long as she is eating well! Have confidence in yourself! :bighug: You'll get there very soon and if you need any help or want to let out some frustrations, just PM me. I have experience with a cantankerous senior who is like a snake when he's unhappy about a situation and Menace's step brother Worf who's a very feisty feral rescue (he's grey too but short haired) like Morrigan.

My samples of Young Again just arrived. Whoo Hoo! Fingers crossed that Menace likes it because I have not seen much of a drop in her numbers on the EVO! In fact, her numbers were either holding steady or a bit higher than expected and one recent reading was the highest ever (27.8) o_O! Yesterday and today finally seem to be coming down a bit. Thank goodness because I was getting really discouraged.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of introducing the EVO just after increasing Menace's insulin dose to 2u so maybe she was bouncing from the combination and is just coming out of it now. Who knows but I won't make that mistake again. This is a steep learning curve and us newbies have to take it one step at a time. I'll be keeping a closer eye on things going forward especially when I introduce the Young Again.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Louellen - OMG! When you said "on the border", I thought you meant the border bt CDN and US ......maybe Niagara Falls, ON/Niagara Falls, NY or Windsor/Detroit. I never dreamed you meant the border of Toronto. I too am on the west border ...my closest main intersection is Rathburn and Martin Grove. HOWDY neighbour! Which vet clinic are you using? I use Islington Village and I LOVE both vets and all the staff. Treatment plan is always a discussion NOT an edict and they get back to me lickity split when I have questions! I email curves and get feedback the same day, and I'm not being charged for my OCD worried Mom calls. Couldn't ask for better!

Sorry to hear the diet change didn't do enough to keep Morrigan off the juice. Don't sweat the BG tests & shots! As a retired R.N. I am happy to tell you but embarrassed to admit, that I shook like a leaf doing both for Menace for the first couple of weeks. I kept telling myself I was just out of practice but the truth is, it's tougher to poke loved ones than it is strangers and much harder to poke my cat than my humans! :pAnd of course human patients are a little more co-operative about staying still or presenting themselves in a well lit area further complicating the situation! As soon as I calmed down, so did my furbaby and now amazingly she often comes to get me when it's time for her pre-shot test and injection. I think they must start realizing that you are making them feel better with all the fuss.:cat:

Menace is not a cuddle cat. She will hop on my lap only if I put a blanket across my lap for her to hide under! I can maul the daylights out of her while she is lounging anywhere in the house but she does not like being picked up and puts up a fight with any attempt to restrain her in any way. If she doesn't come to get me (random test times or curve days), I end up on the floor doing Yoga poses in order to complete the testing but it works for us. The only time I run into problems is if her step brother Worf comes by to see why Menace is getting all the attention or to initiate some play with one of us. Then things get a little more complicated! :arghh:

As others have said, Morrigan's ears will bleed better with time. Menace now bleeds so well I sometimes think I've hit the vein even when I know I didn't poke anywhere near it. I'm a neophyte at this too but most times I can now get a test, food and shot done in 5 minutes or less as long as she is eating well! Have confidence in yourself! :bighug: You'll get there very soon and if you need any help or want to let out some frustrations, just PM me. I have experience with a cantankerous senior who is like a snake when he's unhappy about a situation and Menace's step brother Worf who's a very feisty feral rescue (he's grey too but short haired) like Morrigan.

My samples of Young Again just arrived. Whoo Hoo! Fingers crossed that Menace likes it because I have not seen much of a drop in her numbers on the EVO! In fact, her numbers were either holding steady or a bit higher than expected and one recent reading was the highest ever (27.8) o_O! Yesterday and today finally seem to be coming down a bit. Thank goodness because I was getting really discouraged.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of introducing the EVO just after increasing Menace's insulin dose to 2u so maybe she was bouncing from the combination and is just coming out of it now. Who knows but I won't make that mistake again. This is a steep learning curve and us newbies have to take it one step at a time. I'll be keeping a closer eye on things going forward especially when I introduce the Young Again.
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Mr.Worfmen'sMom...I'm at Eglinton and Keele...so likely about a 20 minute drive from you or less. :) Yes...we are "neighbours" in that way. :)

I'm using Downsview Veterinary at Keele and Wilson. I love the one vet but, when he's not there...I'm lost. The fill-in vet is horrendous! She doesn't know her stuff and I've told him that. Not to mention that he's WAY too busy now. I started with him when he opened up that practise and he used to be so good. Now, he's off on vacations or training or other pursuits more than he was and that leaves the other one in charge. I'm thinking on changing vets for that reason only but...yours might be too far for our dog who gets car sick and vomits. I need someone close...like 10 minutes or 15 minutes away. I will look into yours though! :) It might be doable.

Thank you so much for sharing that even being an RN, you too shake. I finally got up the nerve to try taking a sample this morning (half groggy but, soon had adrenalin coursing through my veins at the thought of it). I got one! Mind you...it was tough. She growled at me just touching her ear, not even poking it and I had to contort myself too to get it (I laughed so hard at your yoga moves. I'm more like a pretzel and I have lower back problems so, it ain't easy, is it?) Like Menace, Morrigan screeches, growls and hisses at being picked up. Being on a table is so much easier than trying to get her under the table. Like Menace...she is NOT a "lap cat" either. Heaven forbid she should show me some affection. She loves to bite and claw me though.

I phoned about the EVO and they said that there's been a recall on the EVO. You might want to do a check on that. They said that the Go "Fit & Free" was lower at about 15% carb content. Not sure about that but I will make a call to see. You'll have to let me know how Menace does on the Young Again! How'd you finally get it across border? I'm impressed! There's another that I called the manufacturer for...it's Nature's Valley, Instinct Kibble that comes in at 13% carb content. It's lower than the m/d prescription food. Morrigan isn't a fan of it much but, she likes the change. Thus far, I've stuck with the m/d because I have it but, I'm hoping to switch over to something else. She still won't eat much of the canned food in spite of having almost every brand we can get up here in ever flavour and texture (i.e.: pate, slices, flaked etc). She doesn't like Fancy Feast. Go figure. Every cat seems to like it. So, I still persist with it all and end up throwing out as much as she eats of the canned foods.

This morning, I found that she hadn't eaten much through the night and didn't really want much this morning of the canned food (maybe, 1/8th of a can if that got into her). I didn't know what to do about the insulin since she didn't seem to want much to eat earlier today. So, I got out the testing kit and decided to go for it again. I finally got JUST enough blood and the meter read it. 15.8 was her number pre-shot at the 12 hour mark but, about 10 or 15 minutes post eating that little bit. I HAVE to give her 3 to 5 Luv's treats to get her to sit there at all without tearing me to shreds. I know it's not ideal but, hey...right now...it's all learning, isn't it? It took a total of 40 minutes this morning/noon to get all of this done and her to eat and put away. Of course, once I'd finished it all, played with her a bit and walked away to let her scrap with the dog....she ate a bit more. She's a grazer so, she's got food until about 3 or 4 hours before an injection. And, you're right. It is about injecting a loved one. I was a dental assistant for 10 years before my daughter was born (never went back to it because the hours were long and the pay cruddy). Yet, in spite of assisting during some pretty nasty surgeries and being used to seeing blood and people passing out or seizing (yeah, that happened on a number of occasions due to a reaction to the anesthesia), my stomach become a nervous wreck over Morrigan's injections and testings too. I decided today that I need to plan something as a "treat" for me for now, for after I get it into her. I've decided on a special tea that I love. So, I put the kettle on while I'm waiting for her to finish eating and after I finished with her, sat and enjoyed that tea before I could stop shaking and get on with my day. She was busy playing with Cassidy, our Havanese dog...doing just fine. I was thinking on pouring a shot of something into my tea! LOL ;)

So, now to figure out how to get Morrigan's numbers into that spread sheet for my signature. I'm HOPING things will get better in time and this will get easier for both of us soon. At least I feel better knowing that I gave the insulin and she really needed it today. I'm sure she's going to be put up on her dosage next vet curve but, for now...I really want to work on doing it at home more fully as she's likely got lower numbers at home than in the vet's office. He needs to see those "at home" numbers to decide how much to go up. He said he'd do one there in about 2 to 3 weeks and just to keep on trying with her. This is my first sample. One gotten out of 3 attempts. Proud of myself right now. I'm giving myself a gold star. ;)
 
Using our grid to record your glucose tests. It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
 
Louellen, Congratulations on getting your first sample. :bighug: It's only going to get easier from here on in. I'm sure with time Morrigan will realize that the whole process will be over in a short time and that she feels better as a result. It may take a while but if you can muster a "can do" attitude instead of nerves, I think it makes it much easier. Think happy thoughts of your tea as you prepare for the test and shot!

Finding a new vet is always problematic. Having a medical background I need someone I can talk to in medical terms who can give me the nitty gritty rather than a gloss over and then explain the differences between feline and human and I lucked out with Islington Village. I used a practice at Bloor and Keele for over 30yrs. but the owner passed away. I liked one of the interim vets but when the practice got sold, suffice to say one trip for yearly checkups and I was gone. I'll PM the name to you. Only other practice I've heard rave reviews about is Royal York but they high test price wise. Edenbridge area can afford it I guess! I'm sure there are others closer to you but I wasn't searching there. Go to Rate Your Vet on the web and get a feel for the various clinics nearby then interview them, if you decide to make a change. BJM has wonderful advice linked in her signature!

Now back to the food issue! I DID just pour myself a drink and may go back for seconds! You mentioned a recall on the EVO so I went to their website and there is nothing there. Nothing on the Pet Food Recall site either. Did the EVO folks know you were calling from Canada? Did they say if the recall was for the wet food or kibble? Now I am afraid to give it to Menace although neither Menace or Worf have shown any sign of any problems with the food for the past week and it's the only food I have given Menace.

I went to the EVO Facebook page (didn't check it before I bought the food) and lo and behold there is a comment from February there from a fellow Canadian asking why their pet store told them there was no more production of EVO. The response from the company was that EVO is being produced BUT WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE IN CANADA. :banghead::mad:Makes me think this is due to the new import laws and the expense of doing business with us. I am now on the verge of tears because even if Menace will eat the YOUNG AGAIN, (and she did eat the few kernels I added to her food recently) that too may no longer be available. It seems we are doomed to deal with food higher in carbs than ideal for our kibble addicted kitties because all the really low decent makes are US brands. BTW- Nature's Valley is manufactured in the U.S. too!

I have been trying to get Menace onto wet food since she joined our family at 10 wks old and she's just over 4 yrs. old now. I can continue to try but after 4 yrs. I seriously doubt it's going to happen. Even when she is ravenous and talking up a storm begging for food because her bowl is empty,(there's a bit of Siamese in her DNA!) she won't eat anything soft. It's kibble or starve with her. PERIOD! She'd never survive in the wild!

I just started to see numbers in the teens yesterday and today and was elated! Now this.:eek: :blackeye::mad:I'm going to call the EVO folks on Monday and see if I can get more detailed information about what I read and the reasons behind it. If this is because of the import changes, I'll post a note to alert all our fellow Canadians because it seems likely there are going to be other US products affected by this fiasco. This is going to have a huge impact on our specialty pet stores who carry a lot of the US foods our kitties need. I guess our only recourse is to start pushing the Canadian manufacturers to make lower carb foods available and to find out exactly what issues with the US brands are causing our government agencies such angst! I want to use a few expletives here but I'll just mumble under my breath for now!

I assume you have not heard back from the Nutro folks yet?

The spreadsheet is WONDERFUL! :D Gives a very visual view of what's happening. It is however a little putsy to set up. I had to delete my first attempt and start over. I think it's a glitch in the updated Google docs that has received a lot of complaints. Once it's set up though it's a breeze! When you get around to this, don't fill in any numbers until you make sure you are on the WORLD mmol page. The sheet automatically allows conversion to the American values so we can seek help from our American friends when we are in need. Just click on the button at the bottom of the page that says "World mmol" to make sure you are on the right page before you start entering any numbers and you should be good to go!
 
Thank you so much BJM for all of this great info! I truly, truly appreciate it and am going to get to doing this....SOON.

Does anyone ever feel like you're just barely treading above water and going under at times, not knowing what to do? I feel so overwhelmed and frustrated with everything. The harder I try to do "the right thing", the harder it seems to get. I have to keep reminding myself that I can only do what I'm doing...getting all of the foods, trying them all, working at persuading her into eating, trying to let her see that not every time I walk past her (or hubby) means a prick, a stick, a poke, needle or something uncomfortable coming her way. I DO play with her, give her as many pats, love and talk to her as much as she'll let me but, 90% of the time since this began, she RUNS from us. She always was aloof with everyone but, this seems excessively so now. I feel as though someone has put a band over my head and ribcage and between the headaches and not being able to breathe...I feel like I'm falling apart.

MrWorfmen'sMom...get out another glass for me please. I'll be there in a half hour. ;)

I had to go out tonight...right around the time I should have attempted another home test but, because it would have taken forever to find her and do it, I wasn't going to go. Finally, after 15 minutes of searching the house for her, in total exasperation, I gave up and decided to actually go out. It did me a world of good to get out (I've been staying home as much as possible and just being here to watch her. (Sorry, I'm just venting out some pressure here). Tomorrow is my nephew's birthday and it's an hour and a half's drive there and the same back so, that's 3 hours right there that I'll be away (no one to look in on her). But, I HAVE to go. Even if I only stay 1 to 2 hours there...that's approximately 4 to 5 hours that I'll be out and I was thinking on NOT going. I can't tick everyone off...especially, my nephew but, I feel as though I'm going to let someone down...her or them. I'll decide tomorrow but, my entire life cannot be sitting around, watching Morrigan. I didn't do it before and I have to stop doing this (as in Letter From Kitty).

Mr.Worfmen'sMom...I hear you on this issue with the foods. I'm SO frustrated at what to do as there is no easy answer, it seems. We can only get what we can get up here and our Sugar Kitties have a mind and tastebuds of their own. If I don't feel Morrigan the m/d kibble (thankfully, she will eat some) and keep on trying bits of canned foods (I'm throwing out more than she's eating), she'd STARVE herself (she did it over 2 days and we got into trouble FAST...not even on insulin yet...can't imagine it happening now!)

As for the EVO...I'm really not sure as I couldn't get it so, I didn't check it out. They simply told me that there was a "recall" on it and they weren't carrying it any longer. BUT...that said, it might have been the case where, as you've said, they may not be bringing it up into Canada anymore and that sales person was misguided in her info???
IF Menace will eat the Young Again...please let me know HOW you got it finally. I will try Morrigan on it as I can tell that she's not likely to become a wet food cat either. It won't stop me from trying but, I can't starve her either. I'm already terrified that she's not eating enough as it is. She seems to be rebelling or...(knock on wood this is NOT the case) not feeling well? I don't what it is but, she's never liked canned foods in spite of putting them down for her since we had another cat who was in Chronic Renal Failure but NOT diabetic. I had to feed HIM canned foods with low phosphorus levels and THAT was also a chore. I had NO choice there but to give him prescription foods. We lost him at the age of 18 to who knows what. No one ever figured it out and I couldn't afford an autopsy. He passed away last March and my previous dog, the July before (2013). So, I cannot lose another pet and I think that is what is getting to me. Only problem is....I recognized, once I got out for a bit tonight...I am going to get sick IF I don't stop this stress quickly. I can provide the best of care but, if she's not going to co-operate, I can only do what I need to do and the rest...well, is in her hands as well as whatever higher powers may exist.

Honestly, I've always been one to go "by the book" on everything and try to do it all right (a bit OCD in nature it seems overboard). But, in reading all of this, trying to learn in a few days/a week and do it all right...it may not be able to be done. I think, like you are encountering...we might not be able to be by the book so to speak in spite of our best efforts if our cat's wills are stronger than ours. I'm trying not to be defeated yet by any means and will certainly keep on trying but, I'm beginning to doubt that I'll be like a lot of people in here and be able to do this perfectly or well. She's going to want kibble. I can't see her starve as that's a whole other set of health issues. I HAVE to get her to eat and do the best that I can, like you to make sure that she's got foods that may not be ideal or textbook but, keep on trying and hoping and letting her be herself. Otherwise, it's going to be a battle of wills and SHE WILL WIN that one.

I feel "less-than" so to speak when I can't get it right but, maybe I'm being too strict with myself and her? Maybe, we both need to learn and go slower? Maybe, it's that I'm trying far too hard? I know there's dangers everywhere in not following everything properly but, maybe right now, it can't be done and we'll have to settle for mid-best???? I find that I start having panic attacks when I try too much and it's not working. I think I have to back up a bit, catch my breath and let her catch hers. Yes, I want her to be healthy and safe but, all of this testing and worry and frustration can't be good for either of us. I think I'm trying too much and she knows it. When our cats are scared to be around us...what kind of a life is that for them (first and foremost) and when we fear going out because it's "test time" and we're so busy keeping charts that we don't go out (as i nearly didn't tonight and am still thinking about missing my nephew's birthday party)...I think I need to back it up just a tad and calm down and slow down just a bit.

So, I will continue to try to get her onto the canned foods as much as possible but, not obsess to the point where I need Valium for myself soon. I will offer the lowest carb kibble I can find and she will eat and hope for the best on that one. I will continue to try to test her at home and chart it all but, not freak out if I don't get it just yet. Maybe, I will try once a day for a couple of days and once we both get used to it...I'll test another time a day for a couple of days and then...be able to do curves. But, right now...getting ONE sample today was stressing both of us out so horribly that i was in tears.

And, she just ate a bit more. She's going to be a grazer and a free-feeder and I will leave foods out for her. I can't change that in her yet. I hope to but, right now...it's important that she just EAT...even if it's not the optimal foods totally yet. She's proven to me that her will is stronger than I am. I have to go slow and try the best that I can. (Even just resolving myself to these points is taking off some pressure right now). Most of all, I need SLEEP. I've been worked up and feeling sick for days on end now and not sleeping or eating properly. That's NOT healthy for me either. If I'm sick...I'm not going to be able to help her. None of us can. We can only do our best and if we have kitties who are resistant to the protocol...I guess we need to slow down and keep on trying but, not driving them or us insane over it????

Ok..novel written. Where's the Advil? LOL ;)
 
BJM....I got a spread sheet done but, not sure how to get the colors right????
Can you look at it for me and see if it's right? It's in my signature like everyone else's...I THINK.
Thank you!
 
Yes, your spreadsheet is up and accessible to view. Good job.

The color coding of the glucose tests is automatically in there. It is called conditional formatting. If you want to see the rules it is following, click on a colored glucose test, then right click and select conditional formatting to look at the rules. There may be a scroll bar on the right if your font display is large. Exit without saving anything so you don't change anything.
 
BJM said:
Yes, your spreadsheet is up and accessible to view. Good job.

The color coding of the glucose tests is automatically in there. It is called conditional formatting. If you want to see the rules it is following, click on a colored glucose test, then right click and select conditional formatting to look at the rules. There may be a scroll bar on the right if your font display is large. Exit without saving anything so you don't change anything.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I just figured that out about the coloring. I was putting the Canadian/non-U.S. version into the chart...then, recognized there was World View as someone else mentioned earlier (DUH...I'll get it eventually :) )
Ok, she got her last shot for the day so, I'm off to TRY to get some sleep now. Hope you are too. :)
 
Louellen I want to share a story with you. Back in January when Rosa was first diagnosed, I felt just like you did - nothing I was doing was enough, maybe I'd caused Rosa's whole problem by feeding her a dry prescription food, you name it I blamed myself for it. I was struggling to get tests - I did manage to get a full curve on her one day but I hated every time I had to stick a needle in her. And she hated it too - she'd hear the meter beep and she'd start running. I had to hunt her down and drag her back to be tested, both of us scared and hating every minute of it.

I too hit the point where I didn't know if I was going to be able to do this - almost every reading I got was a black number...at least half the time the readings were off the scale in the HI range. Rosa wanted the dry food she'd always been used to and resisted my attempts to get her to eat a healthier diet - she'd go out of her way to steal kibble from the other cats and would leave her wet food. My husband had had to go to New York for a week (a trip I was meant to go on with him, but Rosa was diagnosed only a week before the trip so I had no choice but to cancel as no boarding vet would take her with no way of knowing how she'd react to insulin at that point). About 3 days into his trip, I was about at breaking point - I was home on my own most of the day with her, struggling to do shots and tests. I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't bothering to cook or really eat. Our housemate brought his GF home with him that night and the two of them insisted that Rosa would be just fine for an hour or two and we were going out to eat. That break away from it all - just for a couple of hours - made such a huge difference to how I felt. I got home that night and, knowing Rosa was going to still be in black numbers, took a break from testing for the whole evening and went to bed early. I slept well for the first time in over a week. When I woke up the next morning, everything seemed so much easier to deal with. And only 3 days after that, Rosa got her very last "HI" reading and started heading into better numbers. And she never really looked back. The rest of that week I was either dragged out of the house to eat or our housemate and his GF brought food back for me every night. I can honestly say they saved my sanity and probably my health. Fortunately, my husband was home by the first time Rosa went under 50 on the meter - and again, while I was looking after Rosa that night, I was in turn looked after both at home and by people on this board. Although I'd been getting tests before that, I think that was the night I really learned to test - to be able to get a test first time every time. Because I had no choice!

And fairly regularly from that point on, any time Rosa was having a fairly 'flat' day or was in higher numbers, I'd simply be told that "we're going out for a bit...just an hour or two because you need a break". And I did - and I'll always be grateful to all 3 of them for insisting that not every minute could be spent watching Rosa and worrying about her. At the same time, when I needed them here when she was low or dropping, they were right here for me - figuring out food if I hadn't eaten or just providing support, snacks and hot drinks on those nights that went on until 3, 4 or 5 am.

Three months on and Rosa's just completed day 9 of her second OTJ trial. Did I make mistakes in getting her here? Of course I did - we all do. We just do the best we can and any time we make a mistake, we move on and start fresh the next day. And now I'm having the opposite problem - I've got so used to needing to be here for test time, shot time, keeping an eye on her time that it's difficult to remember that I can go out if I need to without testing first or that I can make plans a few days ahead without worrying I might have to change them later. And Rosa's got used to the routine too - she waits to be tested, even offering me the paw or ear she wants me to test. The last week and a bit, she's climbed up on my chair and looked at me as though I've forgotten something because she's not being tested anywhere near as much!! She eats her low carb wet food happily and even on the odd occasion where she could have got into our housemate's room and stolen his cats' kibble, she hasn't wanted to - she loves her wet food now. And now I find I'm watching out for other kitties who are going low and spending time here talking to their owners and making sure they get their numbers back up safely - I'd never have thought I'd be able to remember all the information to be able to do that when I started out here.

My point in telling you this is that there are times when you need to take a break for yourself. While we all understand that you want to do everything you can for Morrigan, there are going to be times when you need a break. And it's OK to take one. Sure, within limits - if it's a day when she's dropping low, maybe you'll have to take your break tomorrow instead of today. But take it when you can because Morrigan needs you to be healthy to help keep her well too. If occasionally you have to skip a shot or shoot a reduced dose because you have something you have to do and you don't want to leave her, or because you need sleep badly, you can do that. You can go out, you can still have a life - it needs a little more planning, but it's still possible. It will get better - I promise. Not all at once, and not every day but little by little it will start becoming more routine and easier on both of you. But never forget that you have things you have to do for you, not for Morrigan, because that's the only way to keep your sanity with this disease. :bighug::bighug:
 
Louellen, to answer your question re: the Young Again...... Jenn at the company told me the problems with shipping may start in June. Until then we can get samples but you have to call to place an order from Canada. I am reluctant to even try it right now for fear Menace will really like it, I'll see some better numbers and then have to watch them climb again if the Young Again becomes unavailable here. I think getting Menace's numbers down knowing it could very well be temporary would be harder on me emotionally and definitely harder on her physically than I am willing to risk until I figure out what is going on with the food situation. Her health and my sanity are too important to experiment with and my sanity is already teetering on a precipice trying to find the "perfect" food for Menace!

Manxcat, you are so right. We get caught up so much in trying to do everything for our cats, we forget about ourselves. I am alone dealing with this situation and quickly learned that I can't stay home constantly worrying about Menace all the time. The wellbeing of my little clowder depends 100% on mine. I even worried about leaving the house for an hour to do errands and meeting my demise. What would happen to my cats!? So I leave an envelope on my counter marked "In case of Catastrophe" with details about my wishes (the kitties have godparents) and medical info for my babies. I figure one of my friends will not take too long to realize something is wrong and come check on me/them. Maybe not foolproof but it gives me some peace of mind that they'll be OK. I acknowledge being a crazy cat lady and I'm proud of it!

Louellen, if you ever need someone to check on Morrigan even if only for your peace of mind, remember I'm not far away!
 
The whole issues of trying to get US cat foods imported to Canada sounds really difficult and somewhat ridiculous. @MrWorfMen's Mom and @Louellen it sounds like you might have to start up an underground cat food smuggling ring. The tabby cat pounces at midnight. I repeat, the tabby cat pounces at midnight. Code phrases like that, some disguises, a fast car, and maybe a speed boat and you'll be in business. You should probably practice your Morse code too.

If you're caught, you may have to claim the cat food is for your own personal use and not for your cat. I'm not going to say it will be easy. You may have to eat some cat food to prove it's for you, but it will totally be worth it.
 
@bsmith - OMG! LOL! The thought of an underground black market for cat food crossed my mind too. I've already started a plan and recruitment! You in? I may need donations for the boat though! ;)I'd eat you know what to solve this dilemma! And I could use stronger language to describe this situation but not in mixed company!

Further digging into the new Canadian requirements for pet food imports and checking labels for manufacturing locations has me fearing we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this issue right now and it's won't just affect pet parents and their furbabies but it's going to put our pet businesses at risk due to increased competition for the dismal selection of Canadian made products further depleting our access to decent foods. It looks like even Fancy Feast is imported! :eek: My research into this issue continues.

I recently switched my sugar kitty Menace to EVO kibble (4yr project ongoing to get her on soft food) and saw some improvement in her numbers so today I ran out and cleaned out 1 store's entire stock of EVO (only 4 bags) The EVO kibble was only available in 1 of 3 specialty pet stores I can easily access. Long expiry dates on the bags so I have bought myself some time to find a CANADIAN alternative or get my very reticent girl to finally accept soft food instead of trying to bury it like poop. The store clerk thought I was nuts but who cares. BTW - My humble apologies to all the other cat parents who buy EVO kibble in the Humbertown Global Pet Store. Signed Desperate Mom of a Diabetic Cat. Ok I don't feel so guilty now:smuggrin:.

Thanks for the giggle! I really needed it!

I am to say the least in the most polite way, A VERY ANGRY CANADIAN right now! This food issue sucks big time! I don't understand why we bothered with a free trade agreement if we are going to continually throw up roadblocks for our US neighbours to access the Canadian market.

Any U.S. folks out there willing to harbor an illegal Canadian alien and her 3 wonderful felines?:woot:
 
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