Newbie - 3 weeks in - advice?

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by Jena4277, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    hello!
    My senior cat was diagnosed with diabetes recently after quite a long haul of not knowing what was wrong with her. My vet tested her blood in the high 400s and switched her diet to wet and dry DM food, which she doesn't mind eating. She had (past tense) two wet food meals a day with each insulin shot (5am 5pm) and I left DM kibble out for her all day which she ate a lot of. She is on Vestulin, at that point 1 unit every 12 hours. Last week, we increased dose to 2units every 12 hours. Not seeing positive results after two curves were done and a fructose was sent out last Friday, my vet told me to stop dry at all costs, and to put her on strict 2x day wet food DM diet only and try not to cheat in between. Omg I thought. So Saturday after this phone call I took the dry away and fed her wet one time that evening, with nothing in between until breakfast the next day. Vet also recommended home testing. Bought a kit. Did a trial Saturday, it was 385 before her feeding and shot, which I attributed to the dry food she ate that day. Sunday was curve day. I tested her before her breakfast, and shot, it was 440. Tested at 9, it was 211. At 1:30 it was 90. At 4:30 before eating and shot, it was 189. Thinking the 440 was a fluke, I tested again Monday before breakfast and shot, it was 200. Never having been worried about hypo before since she was eating dry in between as a natural grazer, taking away that option and feeding her wet 2x and getting those readings makes me nervous. Vet said Monday to retest at end of week, and drop dose to 1 unit if she tests in the low 100s. My cat is not an easy tester so I don't want to test more than necessary, I was thinking 3x that day before each meal and one 6hr in. I am also worried about her hunger! I subconsciously think I am starving her! With numbers like that, am I? At 11am ish she gets hungry then gets over it. At 1-2ish same thing. I have been reading hypo signs and a million postings and freaking myself out. She is alert, not twitching or doing anything strange, except wanting food but when I don't give in she gets over it. I read that people give snacks during the day, but with my going back to work when school year starts, I can't do this nor do I want to start now and and stop get her all mixed up. She weighs appt 7.6lbs and gets 1/4 cup wet food at her meals which she doesn't eat entirely, I leave the bowl for 2 hours after and then take it away where she will visit no more than 2 more times in that period. I read to leave it for no more than 30 to get her accustomed to eating more at each meal, but being a grazer her whole life she doesn't eat large portions, she is a slow eater and I don't see leaving the bowl out for her to revisit a problem. I always make sure she has food for the insulin to work with though. And with her eating again I think she's safe. Any reassurance on any of these matters is appreciative. If I call my vet again I think she will start to bill me per minute!
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm glad you're considering reducing the insulin dose back to 1 unit twice a day. Raising it by a whole unit is too large an increase. The large drop in BG that 2 u gave you is a sign that dose was too high. However, it's possible the good dose is somewhere between 1 and 2 u. You're right about the effect of a wet food only diet on BG - significant lowering effect.

    Re feeding: most FD kitties do a lot better either grazing or having several small meals a day. You can leave food out while you're away (some people freeze small portions as tiny "pucks" of food for later day snacks while they're away from home) or use an automatic pet feeder. The strict twice a day feeding usually leaves a kitty overly hungry. Also, if she needs to gain weight, feed more low carb but in small amounts at a time. The time to remove all food is in the 2 hours prior to the before meal BG test.

    Home testing of BG is the best way to keep your kitty safe and congratulations on doing it. It DOES get easier with time. This is the testing schedule we recommend:

    Insulin Testing Routine

    Here's how to approach finding the good dose range:

    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
     
  3. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Majority of kitties are grazers by nature. Twice daily feeding is kind of an old school of thought. Since you're not home to give her a wet food snack during the day you could 1. Leave a tablespoon or two of her meal out for her to finish through the day. (Ideally she won't eat 2 hours prior to next preshot (PS) test) OR 2. Make catfoodsicles. I put like a tablespoon of wet food in to each ice cube slot, add a little water, then freeze them in the tray. Before I head out the door, I pop one or two out for my boy to eat later. The cubes take about an hour to thaw right now :).

    Just something to think about. Pretty sure my boy would try to eat me when I walked in the door if I didn't leave him 2 snacks during the day :smuggrin: and overnight.
     
  4. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Oh! I like that idea too. She usually leaves some food in her bowl, so I may pop a regular ice cube in to keep it moist, and prepare some foodsicles in case she happens to finish her whole meal some days. My question is: because I am not feeding her at exact times, like an autofeeder would (which I looked into on other forums too), how does this affect her glucose, or I should say, does this make her "bounce" too much, or because it would be around peak time she eats it (that's when I observed she is hungriest) it should be okay? I know we can't control every little thing, but if our goal for our kitties is "regulation" I want to make sure I am doing the right steps. I am going to try to do another curve this weekend, not as many, but at least 3, to see how she is handling things. I am still on the 2 units and was considering lowering it but now if I add a snack to mix I may need to keep it the same. My cat is so hard to run tests on! She was good in the beginning but then wised up. Also, I have to give her shots while she is eating because she is grumpy with those too. Again, good in beginning, but quickly realized what was happening! She gets over it fast like they all do, but she can feel the prick! I have to use a 29 gauge because of the Vetsulin. I try to rationalize that her .5 seconds of pain is for a bigger good!!
    Thanks for the replies. As a teacher, I am home in summer to observe her, so trying my best to get all the hiccups settled before the new year. As we Spanish teachers say... "Caramba!"
     
  5. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Welcome! I'm a teacher too! A lot of us are. Lol. (I teach elementary art.) My cat was diagnosed last may.... Also on vetsulin. I made it my mission last summer to learn as much as I could about fd and to get my cat as regulated as possible. She had her last shot the day before school started again in September. :) knock on wood that the remission continues.


    The others covered everything above but know that you aren't alone and we are here to help every step of the way.
     
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  6. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Hi! Thanks for the support. Do you have thoughts regarding my question about "bouncing?"
     
  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    It's fine to feed her anytime except for 2 hours prior to the preshot test. A bounce is when the bg goes lower than the cat is used to (usually when you see a drop of more than 50% of the preshot) and the cats body reacts by releasing stored glucose causing the next preshot to zoom up. Feeding a snack during nadir (the lowest) actually can prevent some bouncing. If she's hungry, feed her.
     
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  8. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Makes sense! Thank you!
     
  9. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Hi Jena,
    I'm able to check in every 12 hours now lol. So sorry for delayed response but like Janet said, feeding anytime except 2 hours prior to PS test is fine. Personally, I prefer scheduled feedings for my boy, although I know he doesn't eat his catfoodsicle the same time every day so I can only control when his YA snack opens :p.

    For your syringes, you're using U-40 syringes correct? You do have the option to use thinner U-100 syringes with a conversion chart if she is feeling every shot. Are you tenting the skin and sticking in the base of the tent? Where are you administering the shots? Maybe I should've asked these first :smuggrin:.

    Also, when you have a minute if you could setup your Signature with some information about your girl :) http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

    And if you were interested in setting up a Spreadsheet to track and share her BG numbers, we can help you find patterns (if there are any ;) some kitties only have a pattern of being inconsistent): http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
  10. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Hi!
    I set my signature but don't really have the need for a spreadsheet right now (I use a notebook) as I have only done one curve and I am trying to do a check this weekend, hopefully 4 times if she'll let me, but definitely 3.
    Yes U-40 gauges. I was reading about the conversion but "they" say it's not really a consistent accurate dose? I will take a look. I tent up behind her shoulder blades in the middle or to the sides. I do it very quickly but she's always wincing so it doesn't always go smoothly but I have to do it so I can't be too emotional about it. She is NOT a nice cat when it comes to being touched anywhere beyond her face. Always been like that. I have my foodsicles in the freezer and will do a trial run tomorrow!
    Another question: is it normal for cats to eat their meal have shot and immediately nap for quite some time? She looks cute comfortable and pleasant but making sure it's normal? Hopefully just catnap. After I test her this weekend I'll know better as she has been on this new diet for a good week now so hopefully the bg will be more accurate than the crazy numbers I got on the first curve. Testing her has become another nightmare. Glad to have bought a laser pointer to distract her a bit! Anything helps!
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    You'd still be using marks on a syringe barrel so it's as accurate as using the marks on a U40 barrel.

    This spreadsheet is a Google doc and lives online. It can be viewed by all FDMB members and it's the first thing we look at before offering advice. Seeing your kitty's BG test history allows us to assess the dose, offer suggestions, etc.

    Kitties can have this sort of response to the insulin as it reaches onset and beyond. Vetsulin is known to be a faster onset insulin and it can pull BG down quickly and by quite a large amount. She might be reacting to that.
     
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  12. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Like Kris said, some kitties respond this way. My boy is one of them :)

    Good luck with catfoodsicle! :cat:

    With any touch beyond her face, did something happen to her when she was younger? Just curious, I know it's very possible she just doesn't like it :smuggrin:. Be nice to have a third hand! One to keep petting her face, scratching chins while the other two tent and shoot LOL!
     
  13. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Yeah, she was indoor-outdoor cat and was attacked many many times with surgeries and absceses on her back...looking back at it now I am sorry I allowed her to continue going out. Last June something happened outside when I was at work and my mom had let her out and when she came back in she was traumatized and immobile. Ever since that day she has shown zero interest in going outside. She shut herself up in our basement and now she doesn't leave my bedroom (until now really with the Insulin she seems more active and herself!). I will never know what happened to my baby that day but whatever it was changed her forever. She could have even went into DKA outside/seized and I will never know. This all started last June and diabetes went diagnosed for a long time bc 911 vet I went to when she had a seizure last summer said it was high due to stress, basically inconclusive. We changed her diet to DM which probably saved her life for all this time. I am sick about it. I feel awful. But I am glad she is feeling and acting (grooming, jumping, walking) more like herself. To keep her getting a little exercise I encourage her to come downstairs to eat and use this laser pointer I got which she loves to chase! Who woulda thunk it LOL
    I still have to figure out this grazing bit. It is easier to feed her 2 simple meals but I know she is hungry in between. I purposely added a bit extra food to her dinner so she could snack overnight but I think I added too much because I heard her eat a half hour before her big breakfast and she really didn't want to eat for me when I got up to feed her! I will make sure when I go to bed that there is a smaller snack that she can finish way before breakfast! Trial and error!
     
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  14. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    With any touch beyond her face, did something happen to her when she was younger? Just curious, I know it's very possible she just doesn't like it :smuggrin:. Be nice to have a third hand! One to keep petting her face, scratching chins while the other two tent and shoot LOL![/QUOTE]

    oh the insulin is less than twice the battle the bg tests are! The insulin shot is a cake walk compared to the bg! She just lets out a growl and winces but I can do it every time. The bg is where she becomes a Tasmanian devil! I have to towel her bc she goes NUTS! I have four day old bruises and deep wounds in my legs from how badly she attacked me during the first curve...
    I forgot to say I looked into the conversion chart for the 31 gauge u-100s. It seems simple with 1 or 2 unit doses, but does look complicated with anything in between. So hopefully if she remains at 2 or even drops to 1 it shouldn't be too bad for me to measure, but I did see crazy conversions like .8 at the end! Without exact tic marks on the syringe, that could be difficult (?)
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    oh the insulin is less than twice the battle the bg tests are! The insulin shot is a cake walk compared to the bg! She just lets out a growl and winces but I can do it every time. The bg is where she becomes a Tasmanian devil! I have to towel her bc she goes NUTS! I have four day old bruises and deep wounds in my legs from how badly she attacked me during the first curve...
    I forgot to say I looked into the conversion chart for the 31 gauge u-100s. It seems simple with 1 or 2 unit doses, but does look complicated with anything in between. So hopefully if she remains at 2 or even drops to 1 it shouldn't be too bad for me to measure, but I did see crazy conversions like .8 at the end! Without exact tic marks on the syringe, that could be difficult (?)[/QUOTE]

    __________________________________________________________________
    With a U100 syringe, you can measure out 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8 u fractions exactly using lines on the U100 syringe. Have a look at the conversion chart we use - easy-peasy!
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
     
  16. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Ok. And I can buy these at a pharmacy or do I need a Rx from vet?
     
  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That varies state by state I think. I'm in Canada so I can't give you a definite answer. I'm sure a pharmacy can tell you that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  18. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Ohhhh ok. Thanks!
     
  19. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Yup it does vary by state :). I was weary to try it at first but then I became addicted to being able to more easily measure those tiny increments :D. Also try to get them with half unit markings.
     
  20. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    Ok so my cat just vomited bile. She did it a week ago too, but this time seemed more extreme, she got up meowed and meowed, and vomitted twice in a row. She had her shot and ate at 5 and grazed a bit, then fell asleep for a while. This is her peak insulin time but I thought vomiting was due to DKA. Should I test her blood?? I am worried now because she is vomiting weekly.
     
  21. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    To be honest I'm not sure if it was bile or her food digested. It was brown.
     
  22. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I tried testing blood but the blood I was getting was not big enough for the meter to use. I have a CVS true track meter which apparently calls for 1microliter of blood and I can't ever get her to bleed that much so after 20 minutes of pricking I gave up. I will shop tomorrow for another meter. I read that relion micro is good and need only a .3 microliter drop - that sounds good to me. Any other suggestions for getting kitties ears to bleed easier? I rub and rub and use hot compress but it doesn't work. Will try a rice sock next.
     
  23. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    What size lancets are you using? You'll probably want to use 26 or 28 gauge until her ears "learn to bleed" better. 1.0µ is a very big sample even for a person :eek:. Correct, the ReliOn Confirm/micro only uses 0.3µ sample. Listed the same sample size as the pet meter, AlphaTrak 2 (although I still feel like the AT2 takes less) but not by much.

    Also, a one time BG high reading isn't going to tell you if she's DKA, you'll have to get some ketone test strips. You can pick some up if you go to Walmart and get the new meter and supplies :). Might want to purchase a long handled spoon to collect a fresh urine sample from her and then clearly label it, Abby's spoon :smuggrin:.

    Hopefully it is not DKA. We've had too many kitties with that lately :( and maybe it's just being hungry and you're new catfoodsicles will help.
     
  24. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I used the brand it came with and then purchased "one touch soft"
    I have ketone urine strips but she hasn't peed to test her. I will try to when she does.
    Do you think it could be acid reflux? I can literally hear her stomach making noises as she is sleeping next to me now. I held food because I didn't want her stomach upset, and if it was DKA that would make it worse. She's not showing any of the other signs though. I will keep you updated. Off to buy a new meter and strips tomorrow and get the smaller gauge needles!
     
  25. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    It could be acid reflux, it could be some form of IBS/IBD, does she have any food allergies? The catfoodsicle snacks should help if it is extra acid. There are a few kitties who can't go more than like 2.5 hours without eating something. I believe they have IBS/IBD. Definitely try to get the ketone test since you aren't able to consistently get BG, based on you Signature :). Not judging you in any way! I know it can be difficult getting started. Abby looks like she could be a little feisty girl :cat: from your avatar picture. She's a cutie though!
     
  26. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Fiesty doesn't begin to describe her attitude... It's her way or no way... Lol
    I don't think she has IBS?? I just looked it up and I'm not sure it fits her.
    I'm going to try to get some rest and not worry right now, as she seems ok next to me now. Thank you for replying and I will keep updating.
     
  27. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Hello!
    Abby tested tbeee times today - i used a hot rice sack and the .3 relion micro meter- omg the blood was pouring out! Sooo easy to get! And she behaved!
    Results:
    5:10 332
    Ate and 2u given
    Ate again at 9:55
    11:35 78
    Snack tsp wet 1:45
    4:10 92
    Fed and will Give only 1u (vet said to drop to 1 if below 120)

    What do you think of this? I am concerned about the insulin not wearing off at 8-10 hours like it should and curve back up. Vet said it should be a bell curve. I'm not seeing the second half of the curve occurring. I am calling vet on Monday with results. Maybe she needs 1.5 morning and 1 at night. If I can test her tomorrow morning I will try.
     
  28. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    A dose that's a little too high can give longer duration and that might be the case here. If your syringes have half unit marks you can eyeball 1.75 u before dropping to 1.5 u. For now I'd keep the same dose AM and PM. I strongly recommend you set up our FDMB spread sheet.
     
  29. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    My cat just vomited. It's her peak (nadir) time now, and she vomited Thursday night too at same time. Does she have too much insulin in her?
     
  30. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Can you try to get a BG test from her and post it?
     
  31. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I am at a wedding- my brother is with her.
    I will try to leave soon and do it.
     
  32. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    So sorry to make you leave early! I thought you were home when you posted the comment a few minutes ago :oops:. Please tell your brother to keep a close eye on her until you get home. Vomitting isn't a symptom I've come across with kitty's BG going too low but the best way to know is to test her BG. Have you started the catfoodsicles for her to have a snack after meals?
     
  33. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Omg please help - she tested 20!!!!!!!
    I gave her sugar syrup and more food - she is walking around meowing completely aware - what is going on here?! Oh my god I'm sooo scared.
     
  34. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I gave her some (handfull) dry DM. She is gulfing it down. I'm not giving insulin tomorrow. Is that ok?? I am too afraid.
     
  35. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She doesn't eat a lot at her meals so I leave the dish out. She just gobbled up dry so I might have to leave a bit out.
     
  36. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She legit has no signs of hypoglycemia. Her tail is wagging. She is alert. I really have no idea what to do. If she's hungry should I keep giving her dry DM?
     

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  37. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She ate 1/4 cup dry DM and is laying contently. I really have no clue where to proceed from here. She tested in low 300s this morning before food and shot. I will try to test her tomorrow morning and throughout the day but I don't think I am giving insulin.
     
  38. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Jena, I had to step away to take care of my boy for evening. If you got a reading of 20 you should really retest and you'll want to give wet food (like 1 tablespoon at a time) and retest in 20 minute increments. Do you have any higher carb wet food? Dry food takes a while to kick in. You might still need to give her insulin tomorrow but reduce the dose for sure. As long as she gives a PS over 200, you might want to just try no more than 1.5U since you'll be home.
     
  39. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I just retested. It's 104. I gave syrup in a syringe so she got enough and she had the dry DM. I dont have any other high carb food in the house since she's been on DM for months.
    I will retest in the morning. I will give either 1.5 or 1 in the morning depending on the number.
    Please don't apologize. I was freaking out and needed an outlet so I kept posting. I will create a spreadsheet tomorrow and update the post.
     
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  40. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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  41. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She just tested 343. I will give her 1.5u in a little bit. I hope .5 makes a difference!
     
  42. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I had to eyeball the .5. There aren't any tick marks on my syringe. I will test as I am able today. She is awful grumpy today and did not take that shot well at all.
     
  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm glad you got through this successfully. It's very scary, especially the first time. Once you have hypo supplies at home and have been through the test/feed a little bit/wait 20 minutes/ retest/feed a little bit, etc. routine a couple of times it'll be old hat to you. You can break the dose down into even smaller fractions by using U100 syringes with half unit marks and this conversion chart:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
     
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  44. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    I asked my vet about those needles. She said they don't prefer them, they probably won't make a difference, and that I would need to buy 100 in a box and spend that money and if she doesn't like them either I wasted it...I will ask the other vet tomorrow (there are three in my office) for a second opinion.
     
  45. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    They worry that the owner will not be able to convert the insulin volume correctly for one thing. Also, they don't seem to understand that small dose fractions make a difference and that's simply not true. Those U100s with half unit marks have saved the day for many of us on here. They aren't that expensive. Many US people order from adwdiabetes.com or buy the syringes from Walmart. Post for advice. I'm in Canada so can't help with that.
     
  46. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    There are U40 syringes available with 1/2 unit markings. You might want to post a separate thread to ask other members where the cheapest place to order would be. being able to "fine dose" with 1/2 unit markings will make it much easier to get the dosing correct.


    ETA: Here is a list one of the members put together for places that sell U40 syringes with 1/2 unit markings:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SOEzpc6T-buzPIM165bLbZdN0XP14QWIzZETUIU_zPI/edit
     
  47. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    That sounds good. I will look into it. She just tested 107 at her nadir so I am much more happy with that number than the numbers she had on 2u below 100.
     
  48. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Aug 8, 2017
    She just tested 157. I'm not administering insulin tonight. I am calling vet tomorrow to figure this out. What advice do you have?
     
  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Thank heavens you're testing! Good call not giving insulin tonight. It looks like she needs less than 1.5 u per dose. If you get U40s with half unit marks you'll be able to eyeball 1.25 u if necessary.
     
  50. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Tested Abby just now. It's 443. I updated spreadsheet. I can't shoot until 5am. I'll give another 1.5u and then call my vet.
    She is so up and down, I can't figure out the dose she needs.
     
  51. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Tomorrow morning I will probably give 2 because it's so high.
     
  52. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Please don't do this! Her higher number is because she's bouncing and giving the too high dose on a bounce number might send her very low. I know it's tempting when you see the higher numbers but try not to react to a bounce number. If you don't think you can measure the 1.25U on current syringes, do not give more than 1.5U :cat:. Remember, insulin is a hormone not a medication that giving more one time will help things :bighug:
     
  53. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Ok. Thanks for the reply. Will keep you updated!
     
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  54. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Just tested her. 417. Will try to eyeball 1.25 to err on side of caution until I can talk vet into the half mark syringes.
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You can buy U40 syringes with half unit marks online. I think many people in the US get them from www.adwdiabetes.com. I'm not sure if you need a vet script or not. Ultimately, she's your kitty and you're the one who has to deal with the consequences of improper dosing. If your vet absolutely refuses to help, take out a couple of U40s and fill them with coloured water to represent your best estimate of 0.25/0.50/0.75 u and keep these as a reference so that you're dosing as consistently as possible when giving the fractions.
     
  56. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thank you for advising me correcting regarding dosage. She just tested 80 at nadir. She is plummeting sooo low. I can't imagine what it must feel like inside. She is eating a little now so hopefully it stays steady. I will have to probably go back to 1u!
    I posted in the other forum and some members said to come up with a number I shouldn't inject below. Some members said 200. I think that's a good number for Abby for the time being? I can really see a change in thirst and peeing when her sugar is in the 400s like last night. It is immediate. Do any kitty owners give 0.5u each 12 hours? I wonder how she would do bc I can't imagine giving her another 1u in 6 hours when her history has proven she doesn't increase that much before PM12.
     
  57. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    200 is a good NO DOSE number for newer members, such as yourself :). We can always lower it a little at a time when Abby show's us her patterns :cat:. There are a couple kitties on like <0.25U twice a day. Some go into remission but some are just going to be lifers. A lot can happen in 6 hours ;)
     
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  58. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I don't hesitate she will be in remission any time soon if at all given the fact that a no dose causes her to fly up to the 400s. It's something I would love for her but give her lifestyle changes, I don't think it's possible. Waiting for the vet to call...
     
  59. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Keep in mind you're still early on in the sugar dance and seeing greens and blues! Took me over 2 months to see those :).
     
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  60. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Her PM bg is 196. I really don't know what to do and the vet hasn't called. When she eats it will be above 200 but I want to be cautious. Maybe .5u tonight? I don't think I can measure .25u on my 1u mark syringe. I will wait as long as I can.
     
  61. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Vet said no dose tonight and to reduce to 1u tomorrow morning and retest at +6. That's what I'll do ...
     
  62. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She tested 272 after no dose last pm! I don't get this cat! She is all over the place. I only gave .5u. I wanted to be safe. I will retest at +6.
     
  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    They can be erratic at the beginning when you're trying to pin down the good dose range. Eventually you want to have a dose that gives you shootable BGs both AM and PM. Once you get there, it's good to give that same dose both AM and PM for a while to learn her response patterns. Varying the dose from AM to PM is a technique that can be used once you've learned more about your cat's patterns.
     
  64. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    At nadir she just tested 123 with .5u. That's good to me. I will retest at +12. If it's over 200 I'll give another .5u. Under, I will no dose. I'm calling the vet again as she requested to confirm.
     
  65. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jena, are you home during the day? We're actually not sure if her nadir is at +6, so if you can get tests during the day, try to switch them up. One day grab a +3, next day a +5, next day +7 etc until you do a curve. Prozinc can have a nadir as early as +3 or after +7. The average is between +5 and +7 :). Just based on the 3 tests today, that is a lovely cycle :).
     
  66. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I am in and out now that the school year is approaching. It's also getting increasingly difficult for her to behave for me (purritos are necessary) so I am trying to do bg tests 2x a day if I can.

    I am taking a slight chance today. I can't measure .25 bc it's too close to end of syringe, I'm giving .5 with a 203 reading this AM. I will be home to watch her this morning, and I'll make sure she eats a good amount. I want to see if .5 is the number for her.
     
  67. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I grabbed an +5 and the meter said LO. I did the usual syrup and dry. I didn't get the high carb wet underestimating my luck...I am not giving her insulin today but I will try to get a PM reading.
     
  68. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    I would do another test. It is possible that the reading was off sinbce that number is a BIG drop from the preshot If not then you need to keep monitoring the numbers to get the numbers up
     
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  69. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Omg i am so embarrassed. lo on my meter means "not enough blood". I am retesting now. It's going to be high what a nightmare
     
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  70. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Usually a meter will read lo when the numbers are very low. Most meters will just give an error message when there is not enough blood. In any case when you get a very low number or one that doesn't seem to fit the rest of the cycle it is always prudent to do another reading right away to double check. :)
     
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  71. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Ok Lo changed to 60 now.
     
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  72. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    It's now 60. I am having so much trouble figuring her out. 200 was her no dose number and I screwed up badly because I wanted to figure out consistency for when I go back to work. I really am worried because I don't know what going back to work is going to be like with this issue. Many people say that FD brings their kitties closer to them- this is straining all the relationships in my life, my mental health, and my cat's. I cannot get a handle on this and it's almost going to be a month. I wish there were "rules"
     
  73. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    60 is much better...and it fits in with the rest of the cycle much better than LO. I don't know what meter you are using but some meters display LO when it drops down to 10. :eek::eek:
     
  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Deep breaths ... :bighug::bighug::bighug: it'll get easier. You're very early in the game. Later on you might want to try U100 syringes as has been mentioned already.
     
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  75. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    60 was after I initiated interventions, so yes,it was that "lo". I used relion micro
     
  76. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately kitties can be unpredictable and since insulin is a hormone and the body's responses to it can vary you can't always correctly predict what is going to happen. Although it seems like forever a month is still in the early times of the treatment. Vetsulin seems to be giving some major drops from time to time. It is too early to tell right now, but some kitties will have more level cycles with the long lasting insulins like Prozinc, levemir or Lantus. Something to keep in mind for down the line.

    Please do keep checking the numbers to make sure that they don't drop again.
     
  77. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Well Ms. Abby don't give your Momma so much excitement :D. Jena, you may want to pick up some U-100 syringes with half unit markings so you can draw a smaller dose than 0.5U a little easier. If her PMPS is over 200, I would drop it down to 0.25U or 0.2U on a U-100 syringe. Were you able to get another test? Abby may be becoming a diet controlled kitty :cat:
     
  78. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She dropped again to 38.
     
  79. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    She dropped again to 38.

    I am almost in tears.
     
  80. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    I don't want to give her this anymore. I am just an absolute mess. I am hurting her, not helping her. I am having a small panic attack.
     
  81. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Relax and breathe...give her some syrup or honey and any sort of high carb food you have and retest in 15 minutes. You are doing fine
     
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  82. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Oh no no, don't cry :bighug:. How is her behaviour? She's probably OK but we do want that BG to come up some more. Do you have any higher carb gravy foods at home? Give her a big tablespoon with a drop of honey/karo/or syrup and you'll want to retest in 20 minutes.
     
  83. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    All I can give her is dry DM right now and syrup. I don't have anything else.
     
  84. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is fine...the syrup will get the numbers up faster and the dry will give HC for once the syrup wears off.
     
  85. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    You can give some regular wet food then with syrup along with a little bit of DM dry. That will kick in later. You're not trying to hurt her but we need you to stay focused to keep her safe :bighug:
     
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  86. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Her behavior is normal. Growling at me when I try to take her blood. She was grooming and Lying down before I got the 38 reading.
     
  87. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    You should be at or past the nadir (lowest number) With Vetsulin it "usually" will peak around +4-+6 hours after the shot but that can vary. Just continue with testing every 15 minutes and keep posting the numbers. You want to see the numbers come up the way they did earlier when you gave her HC and syrup.


    ETA That LO you got was obviously correct. You managed to get her up to 60 earlier with syrup and HC but that does wear off, which is why the numbers dropped back down. If she is at or passed the peak the numbers should start to stay up. The syrup will help get them there quicker and the HC will keep them up
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
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  88. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Some kitties do get even more feistier when they're in the lower numbers, don't let it upset you. These are good signs that her insulin needs are going down so soon :bighug::bighug::bighug: Abby should be passing nadir so at least you don't have a couple hours to keep this up :smuggrin:.

    @Tuxedo Mom Mary Ann, are you going to be able to stay with Jena? I have about 25 minutes before I have to go to work.
     
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  89. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I will be around and will check in every 15 minutes until things are settled.
     
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  90. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Jena4277 it is about time for another test. Please post the number once you get it. Thanks! :bighug:
     
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  91. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jena were you able to get that test? It should be showing higher numbers by now.
     
  92. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    My vet just called. Said to stop everything for a few days and let her body figure out what's going on. I will continue to blood test, but she said to stop insulin. I am getting a second opinion tomorrow.

    Testing her again now.
     
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  93. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jena there is a good chance that Abby's low numbers are because you have recently removed the dry DM from her diet. It may even be possible that she may be able to be diet controlled which would make it much easier for you. Although this has been a trying experience for you everything you are doing is to keep Abby safe. I totally agree with your vet to stop the insulin for now and do some testing to see how she responds with no insulin AND no dry food.

    In the meantime, let's make sure the numbers have come up and then you can relax. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    ETA If you see higher numbers later today just ignore them. The syrup and HC can keep levels higher for a period of time.
     
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  94. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    173!!!!
     
  95. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    Thank you for everything.
     
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  96. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    WOW!!! Abby certainly reacted to the syrup and dry food!!! You should be safe, but try doing one more test in an hour just to be sure. Don't worry about the high number...as I said in my other post the syrup and dry food can really zoom the numbers up.

    ETA And hide the dry DM food away somewhere to make sure Abby can't get into it. ;)
     
  97. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also I do believe that you have earned a nice glass of wine or some decadent chocolate for your experiences today. You did great!! :bighug::bighug:
     
  98. Jena4277

    Jena4277 Member

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    What does ETA mean?:bookworm:
    Ok will retest in a bit and post.
     
  99. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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  100. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    ETA means "edited to add" It just means that I added another comment after I already posted the original
     
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