NEWBIE KHAN

09/1/10
252 1130pm (very first home test)-- 3 hrs after insulin shot

9/2/10
274 1230am
395 7am
550 8am (reading was taken AFTER eating- 45minutes after eating I gave 2 units of insulin)
385 1pm central time (5 hrs after initial insulin shot this am)
461 730pm prior to feeding --- it took a lot to get him to eat.
930 pm gave 2 units Humulin N
466 1030 pm 1 hour AFTER I was able to get him to eat & he did pee.

I'll take another reading at 1230am so in two hrs.

Any advice?

 

hi there...my first piece of advise is to write your numbers out in a way that we read them here. i will go back and try to format that for you and then it should make sense and you can follow suit and write them this way from now on.
ok, looking at it closer i realize i can't actually make sense of it.
here's how to write it.

amps (morning pre-shot, should be before any food) 300 2 U
+2 270
+5 140
pmps (evening pre-shot, also better without food on board.) 2U

so this is what it would look like, (i'm making up the #'s

amps 300 2u
+2 270
+5 140
pmps 320 2u

this way you have an accurate shooting # that is basically without any food in his belly.
feed him
shoot him

we don't need to know the time...it's confusing. we just need the # of hours since last shot.
also do NOT feed before testing amps or pmps.
as a rule, always present this way.

 

I hope I'm not confusing you but really, anytime after +10 with Humulin N - if your cat is that high, I would (if my cat) go ahead and give the insulin.

Are you feeding dry food?

 

The following are Khan's number on the first full day of home testing:
Khan is on Humulin N

Wednesday (first try at home testing)
+3 252
+4 274

THURSDAY
amps 395 2u
+ 45minutes 550
+5 385
pmps 461 2u
+1 466
+3 385

 

amps 470
-- Fed Purina DM canned --1/2 can with a small amount of fancy feast. He ate a lot!!
--+1 (no reading) 2u

 

Hi Jennifer, not surprised you got no reading an hour later. at high number like your having i think it would be ok, no, better, to shoot immediatly after eatting. unless kitty has a tendency to throw up or something.
nice display of records!

kind of a waste of strip to test at +1...would'nt expect to see much. if you want to see some mid cycle try at least +2 or at his high numbers +3. about the only time you waste a strip at +1 is if your worried he's low. i don't think we are worried about that just yet :razz:
Lori

 

bump

 

Actually when you give the shot, the time starts ticking --

so
AMPS 470 fed .... 2u
(even though there was some time between testing and shooting)

+1 is one hour after SHOT not after previous test


As you get more practiced at the whole procedure, it will only take a few minutes to test, feed and shoot.

I have two diabetic cats and use Levemir insulin, so I don't have to feed before shooting...
so - test, shoot, test, shoot takes me less than 5 minutes, then I feed all my cats

 

good catch, i did'nt even notice that.

 

It looks like to me there is room for a small increase. Maybe to 2.25u or even 2.5u. What do more experienced N people think?

On the other hand, what does your vet think about switching to ProZinc or Lantus/Levemir? Any one of those three insulins are going to be longer acting and will give less of a sharp drop than Humalin N.

 

kelly she is going to get a scrpt for pro zinc. she basically has no data and has been feeding dry so i don't think it's time yet for an increase dose. not just yet anyway.

 

oh and also switching to wet food now.

 

Your doing really well, don't stress yourself out. You will get the hang of it.

Great if you can get a better insulin.

As you've just gone to the FF I wouldn't increase either.
The +1 is important when starting out with a fast insulin.You need to see how fast he's dropping on it. This then gives you guide of when you should test again.
Once you swap to a longer acting insulin it doesn't matter as much (all you look for then is how much his food affects his bg.You would expect to see a higher number than the preshot.This then tells you how carb sensitive he is)

Scritches :mrgreen:

 

thanks kate, i knew i needed eyes as i'm not really familiar with H. she uses one touch and is paying retail right now so i was just trying to save her strips. but i see your point.

 

Pmps 660. 2u.
Ate purina dm canned heatd up and mixed slightly w another cand food.

Spoke to diabetic educator learnd a lot Spoke to vet.he agrees w switchg insulins.will switch to lentas ga... On tuesday mean time dose was bumpd to 2.5u. +3 475. 1u.
Khan was hungry fed wellness canned low carb off food list found on ths sight.he loved it! +5 378. Purchased all cand food 7 carbs or lower. Dr agreed and so khan will be on wet and offer dry to help transition him.ihave a pet siTter comg to my house and she is good. I had to go out of town just bad timing. Monday and wed I can do all day curves I'm off of work those days.

 

oh my, i never saw a meter that would even read 660. i'm concerned that the low carb is just being introduced now (7 carbs and under) and the dosecreas with a pet sitter.
i guess with #'s that high it can't go down THAT low...will she be coming on line for you?
testing? or just shooting?
don't feel bad...life still goes on even during times like these. and i don't mean to sound presure like, just want to know if she'll be here with us?

 

+8 558 2.5u. Pet sitter(mimi) told me khan is more energetic this morning at +8. Ate 1 full can low carb food off
Food list off this site and he ate a good Amt of dry purina dm. Mimi said she would stop back at +5 hrs to test him since he had high amps#. if he is still high500s she will give 1u. What r ur thoughts? I don't think there is a fear of khan's # going hypo.

 

typically we don't do this...but i would venture to say go for it.
has your cat been tested for acromyalgia? cushings disease?

 

i like to say there is never a time when insulin is involved that there is never a fear of hypo.
shooting at +8...then at +5...has she totally gone off schedule or are you just shooting when you can. which i believe with H is ok...i may get spanked for saying that.

 

If khans # is still over 500 at +5 and the humulin n is less than 10 hour duration the question I have is why is his # not coming down?not enough to help get it down I would suspect. Vet was cautious advising 2.5u.
Since he doesn't think it is enoguh but doesn't want to risk hypo hapeng while I'm gone.the +5 check is to make sure his # has decreased since humulin n is listd as only workg 10 hour duration but I,ve read here that some people did get 12hr duration. I realize evry cat is different so mimi is checkg to see if 2.5u was enough and if khan will eat more.

 

Cushings is autoimmune issue which should show w thyroid testg which has ben done at least 3 times. But I will ask vet about it. The other I have to look up and ask.

 

Lookg for thoughts on this approach w giving more at +5 if numbers are still over 500

 

+7. 587. 2u. That makes 4 and. A half units total for today then at +10 440 khan ate a whole can of weLlness. And a third a can of purina dm mixed w warm water with pet sitter sitting w him. If she doesn't he won't eat very much. I know a curve must get done and I will on monday then talk to vet then another curve wed.

 

Amps. No readg 3u. Glucose meter gave a readg of '9 -5'. I do not know what that means and callg the ultraone company told me that is not an error message not sure what it means. Khan didn't eat much just licked off all the warm water from food. I'm nervous mimi said khans eyes were dialated but when bg #s were lower the eyes were not. If bg was higher or lower than meter would read the meter would show 'high'or 'lo' Not sure realy what to do

 

It might be a good idea to start a new post, Jen. Maybe put the question mark icon in the subject line also.

Can I ask why did Khan get 3 units today? I thought you were shooting 2 or 2.5? Even though I had Cleo on N for 4 years I don't have much experience with the way people here shoot but just wanted to ask why the increase so soon?

Hopefully if you start a new updated post you will get more help. :smile:

 

Good idea. I just don't know how many different post I should have. Khan received an increase in dose bcuz his # is not dropping even at +5 or +10. humulin n is fast actg so some drop should be seen and khan is not lookgn so well. So now here I am 300 miles away and nervous for khan. My gut tells me to not worry about khan going hypo so I will leave it to my higher power and see khan at 5pm tonight. I will post at that time but check on my blackberry thruout the day.

 

honey i'm concerned too becuase those numbers are just crazy...almost as if no insulin is getting to him at all. we are sure everything is ok with the insulin right. they are all different does that one need to be rolled gently before each use like pzi, is it being properly stored, has the expy been checked? can your friend get on line in your place and talk to us directly?Lori

 

in this case it may be ok to keep a long thread becuase peeps already know the story instead of having to reexplain it. just my thought. not to be disagreeable.

 

Hi,
for some reason I haven't received the further updates.

Anyhow-this needs to stop as I feel your getting stressed and confused (I know I am)

Despite these numbers, please don't increase again.
For now-Forget abnything about acromegaly/Cushings/IAA.It will worry you and you have no way near enough data or stability to be even looking at that, so please just forget about it.


You said you could do a curve Monday-
Help us to help you.

Feed-wet (the last food you mentioned that he wolfed down) low carb only (NO dry).1hour before his shot is due if you can, if too early, can you do 30minutes before his shot is due.

Test
+1 (As a one off)
+2
+4 (Wherever you feed him in this cycle, note it and agin, only wet food, no dry)
+5
+6


If his number hasn't started to rise at this point, test at +7. We need to find where his nadir is (lowest number)

Don't give any more insulin until his next 12 hour shot is due. We may have rebound here, just can't tell as his food.type of food, testing and whne being given insulin is all over the place.

Can you get ketodiastix? Important. Is a pee test for keytones.Need to monitor for these until he is regulated.

I'm hoping when you said vet has agreed to change insulin you meant Lantus? If so, and you have the ketodiastix, it may be worth you starting over at 1u. We need to see some numbers (as I have suggested above).Rebound can take 72 hours to clear. Or he may need more insulin. You have to change things one at a time or your just looking ofr a needle in a haystack and it could make things worse.

If and only if, by doing the above curve, food etc he drops anywhere near to 50-karo syrup drizzled on his low wet carb food. Don't give dry. It's no good and takes too long to raise his bg's.If no karo, honey will do it. Doesn't last long so you would need to test every 15 minutes until his numbers get a good rise (and post a new thread in health as well as this one using the 911 icon.You'll get help immediately.A hypo is a hypo regardless of the insulin). I think it's unlikely, but being prepared gives you control and hopefully some peace of mind.

Really need to stop jumping around here.
Anything your not clear of Peppercat please ask. High numbers aren't nice but if they don't drag on Khan can recover.And pleae, do get the ketodiastix.

This is a huge learning curve, takes time so don't berate your self.

 

Kate, Thank you, I do agree.
I think this went in all directions and your brought it back to front and center.
You did good.
I, not even a newbie, found myself upset with the #'s and rushed to fix.
You made a wise decision to post this.
Lori

 

Hi u didn't stress me. I'm very thankful for knowg I am not alone here. I've been out of town checkg on my boyfriends blackberry but left blackberry in car for last truck race. I'm very nervous rt now since no one has been in to check on khan and I'm scared and worring and thinkg the worst like..... Did I make good decisions? If khan is.... I will just b so mad at myself. I will be home in 20 minutes

 

YAY< cant' wait for you to get home and hug KHAN...i really care for that little guy now.

 

Thankyou. Me too! I will get control lquid since I didn't know about that until friday and will get ketone sticks. And have to buy more strips! Ugh cost is a lot. I think I will buy a relion meter since strips are a lot cheaper but tonight will get ultronestrips to stay consistent. What r ur thoughts?

 

i think your kind of a newbie and i should send you a newbie kit with keto stix, what do you think? it's free but for the shipping and any donation you make. check out the newbie kit's at the bottom of my page and go to the web store.

 

welcome, Khan...

we're newbies too,and if we can catch on, anyone can! Binks and i have found lots of truly valuable help and support here.

good luck...it does get a LOT easier!

Celi & binks

 

He is eatg wellness. I will check his bg rt now

 

drumroll.........and the number is...

 

Ok. Amps was 'hi' on meter. Now +14 it is showg 'hi' again. Khan ate almost whole can of wellness then peed in box. Ho peed outside other box. He is tryg to tell me things r not rt. I'm rung to store for more strips b back in half hr

 

you did'nt shoot him?

 

Shootg him now with 3u. Waitd til I was going to b here.

 

Yeah newb kit would be great. I can send a box of 100 lancets for one touch ultra soft. Khan is lickg his legs and itchg his neck. He seemd content before the 3u shot. I will check him at 1 hour.

 

Ok. Khan just ate 1/2 can ffeast. I will check himat +1 then post. I could really use some eyes on this

 

I'm heading to bed, but I'll try to post this elsewhere so you can "get some eyes" as you said.

I would suggest starting a new thread tomorrow that has a link to this post. The link will allow everyone to see everything that's gone on. Use Kahn's name and his AMPS (AM pre-shot number) in the subject line. It helps keep everything organized and easy to understand.

Good luck, I know you and Kahn will get the hang of it soon.

 

jenn if you want to order a newbie kit hit the link below and go to the store.
i can send you the relion meter 25-50 strips (depending on what i have) you'll get some lancets but i don't know what kind...they are all together in one bag. i also have a container of keto stix and a rice sock if you need one and a toy for khan.
you don't have to send me lancets. you can if you want.
you just paypal the shipping and a small donation if you like. 1 to 5 dollars for the next newbie.
if you don't need all that stuff...maybe you just want to get strips for the meter you have.
lori

 

Opps some how I ended up posting in lantus area.
+4.5 267 ate 1/2 can ff
+7 377 ate 1/3 can ff
+8 404 ate 1/2 can ff.
+9Hrs 20minutes 449 And then was just sitting there with mouth open Should I shoot him with 3 u? I think I should. I couldn't find kotone sticks at walmart and due to holiday there was no pharmacist. I will check walgreens.

 

+9.5 3u. 10mins later and khans ears are realy hot and red. Could he be allergic to insulin? Humulin n

 

I don't know about the hot ears. I have heard others say that it can be due to infection or allergy. Another question for your vet? Your dose sounds fine. I assume you are in a holding pattern until you get different insulin?

 

Yes a holdg pattern. I'm workg on a developg a curve.I am astonished on how much he is eatg vs the dry food!

 

When they are unregulated, their bodies don't process/use the food well. So they can be literally starving. It is good to feed new diabetics a little more until their numbers go down.

Have you done the research on ProZinc so you are ready with questions for the vet? viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1979

 

From reading looks like you have increased dose again? and are shooting at +10?

I wouldn't think his ears being hot is associated with the insulin. Could be having a number of pokes in the same ear.

Hope you get onto a longer acting insulin soon as possible.
My last post set out how to try and get things on an even keel, you are obviously worried about his numbers by increasing dose.
I'm sure wellness is a low carb food so that's good.

I'm going to 'bow out' now.

Good luck

 

+2.5 238. Do I need to check khan hrly since bg has dropd so much?

 

Usually humulin hits about 3-5. It probably will make you feel better if you check back in an hour. That is a nice safe number, but it is a little early. Better safe than sorry - only costs a strip :smile:

 

All the info is very helpful. At +10 the bg numbers had already moved up closer to 500. Khan's behavior was showg or so it seemed to be slowg down not wantg to move and mouth open.

 

+5 1/2. 159. Ok do I need to worry khans number will keep going down?- would think this is the lowest

 

hi pepper, i will get you out a newbie kit with keto stix if you still want them but i hope you'll let me know tonight....i'd get it out in the morning first thing. pm me if you have any questions. you pm by pressing that pm button on the lower part of the post. it's private message ok.

 

+8 465. Now I'm at +10. Do I take another reading? Then shoot? Khan just ate 1/4 can ff.

 

another reading right after eatting won't be of much use, so go ahead and shoot. are you shooting every 10

 

+11 497. 3u khan ate a small amt. I plan on talkg w vet tmrw about switchg insulin. I'm off of work wed so I'm hoping I can b here to monitor khan.

 

+11 432. 3u. Ate a full can of ff

 

+12 'hi' so over 600! 3u. Ate a very small amt.
a lot of urine in box. Tried several foods finaly ate dry evo.
+2.5 398. Ate 1/3 can iams kitten wet.

 

hope you intro yourself over at Lantus. they will really help you find your way. Lantus is a very hands on insulin, lot's of testing and exact timing for shooting. so glad kahn will be getting the best stuff he can get.
i'll be looking for you over there.

 

lots of pros over here on lantus! i'm a newbie, but these guys have given me great guidance and support. good luck, khan...you'll do well.

celi & binks