Newbie on PZI

I have yet to post in the actual insulin group. I saw someone post that they feel a lot more comfortable in the insulin group than the public forum so I thought I would try here.

I have to go feed my baby Kolbie and give him his shot too but I at least wanted people in here to know that I am using this insulin.

Thank you!

Ali and Kolbie

 

I'm glad to see you post here, Ali. Carl and I post both here and in Health but there are others too, including several newbies like you.

This forum is much smaller and quieter than Health - busiest in the early am and later pm. So plan to post and wait for a reply. If you ever have an emergency and need an answer fast, post on Health.

Everyone here has experience with ProZinc. It might help for you to read some of the threads and look at their spreadsheets.

Let us know how we can help!

 

Hi Ali,

Welcome to you and to Kolbie! Like Sue said, we're not a large group, but if we can, we'd love to help you to help Kolbie. Just let us know what we can do!

Carl

 

Thank you for the very warm welcome. I will take you up on that. I think I feel more comfortable here already. I do have some bad news right now regarding Kolbie and his insulin. He has out right refused to let me give him his insulin as a result of his bad experience with the home testing. This morning he let me do it but because I knew I had to do it really, really fast or he was going to fly off the table....I missed. It is new for me to miss. Some may have gotten in but his coat was pretty wet.

My Vet has asked me to just concentrate on getting that insulin into him right now. Because without his insulin it will not be good at all. She also wants me to go be with him when not giving him insulin so we are best friends again. It is heart breaking that my baby is hiding from me and not with me all the time like he was before this. When I get a chance I would like to give you a little history about Kolbie, me and how we even landed here. I think it might help you understand our situation a little better. He does not just have diabetes so that also is another factor. His brother died a year ago and we have been hit with a boat load of stress since February. He was diagnosed in January. As I mentioned though...another time. Thank you again for the wonderful welcome. : )

 

I agree with the vet. You are on a low dose, right? I would work on treats he likes and petting and praising. Is there something he really likes, maybe being brushing or playing with string, or just so time along with you in your room? Do that when it is not near injection times.

Here is your first post from Health that will give people some background.

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?t=92245

 

Hi Ali,
I looked at your older posts and might have missed it, but what is the current dose of insulin that Kolbie is getting?
Have you tried giving the shot while he's eating? A lot of people do that and kitties don't seem to even notice with their faces in the food.

 

From one of your early posts:

This may be a sign of possible exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI); something to discuss with your vet. It is when the pancreas is not producing enough of the digestive enzymes that it should, so digestion is incomplete and thus malodorus and voluminous. It is possible to purchase digestive enzymes on line, such as this product:

Dr Mercola Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes 5.26 oz
Has Betaine, pancreatin (protease, amylase, lipase), Ox Bile extract (45% cholic acid), Bromelain, and papain.

Amylase breaks down starch
Lipase breaks down fat
Protease and papain break down protein (papain comes from papaya and is found in meat tenderizer.

Also, you might experiment with FortiFlora (helpful bacteria) first. Many cats love this sprinkled on the food. It may help appetite too. It's available at many vets ... and much less expensively from our shopping partner Amazon - just click on the link near the top of the page.

Stress seems to be a recurring theme in the experiences Kolbie has had. Something to help with that is regular play sessions of 15-20 minutes twice a day (time permitting). This will help exercise him (good for the glucose levels), improve your bond with him (not everything is about being poked!), and relieve some of the stress.

 

Thank you guys. Regarding his insulin....right now he is on 4 units in the morning and 3.5 units in the evening. I do play with him in between. I was just upstairs a little bit ago giving huge tummy rubs and playing with his string. He LOVES his string. He also loves to lay on a plastic bag. At bedtime he typically (except for last night ) lays into me and he loves his "scratchies". Last night he didn't lay to my left though. He scooted up to the right of me which I was very concerned about. He has been upstairs sleeping almost all day so I am very concernd about that as well. Without getting his insulin he is way off.

Soi have a question. Would his sugar be really high without his insulin then? I cannot think when I am worried...

 

Yes, it will be higher.

Our saying: Better a day too high, than a moment too low. IE, he will tolerate being high for a bit; he could die quickly if he gets too low.

That seems like a really high dose starting out. Here is a very important post on handling hypoglycemia.

To be honest, I'd be inclined to reduce his dose to 0.5 to 1.0 units am and pm until you have a better handle on testing, just as a safety precaution.

 

Ok thank you. It may be pretty high right now then with the misses. Oh and Carl...today I tried to give it to him while he was eating but I knew I had to be real fast....as soon as he felt it hit his FUR..he knew it was coming. So I did my best but he scrammed as I shot it in....

 

I always brought Spitzer into a bathroom with me to do the testing and treat thing.

First, I'd get everything ready in there - syringe drawn, meter out, a folded piece of tissue to back the ear and blot, test strip container on the counter, and whatever treats I wanted to give him.

Then I'd bring him in and shut the door. No escapes that way and no interference from the other cats.

Then I'd do the testing.

Followed by a treat.

And open the door.

 

I guess I never wanted to admit that I have a difficult cat. It makes me feel like I have done something wrong. But when I adopted Jack and Kolbie they both had severe issues as if they were either feral or abused. It was hard to tell the difference because their behavior was atrocious. If Jack was not nose diving into the trash or on top on the fridge ripping apart everythg I put up there to keep away from them...then Kolbie was head first into my cereal bowl. These boys had no manners and it took an entire year to calm them down. They were on oral medicine at 7 months and Kolbie would have no part of it...he scratched me to death. Jack was fine with it. Kolbie used to be stuck to me like glue...would never leave my side. It took an entire year for Jack to calm down and finally come to me and jump on my lap and for Kolbie to stroll away from it. All 3 of us were so close...our own little family.

My VET has been hinting that Kolbie is feisty, a little difficult...but has said it all very nicely. I really have not wanted to see or admit that he can be extremely hard to deal with. Somehow I take this on as a personal failure. I suppose like a parent does about their child. He is my love bug and I love him more than anything in ths world...but he absolutely does not cooperate when he doesn't want to.

What do you do when this is the case? : (

 

I have a question. I got the wrong advice about this from someone who didn't know the answer a week ago.

When I begin home testing again...and I know I will after some of the threads I just read...How do you know how much insulin to give based on the numbers? Like if Kolbies sugar was 240 in the morning...how do you know how much insulin to give him? Is there a chart to go by? Or is it his weight?

Some of the things I keep reading say that if I don't home test that basically Kolbie will die. Is this an absolute? What if a cat is getting tested at a Vet? Is it not good enough because it is not everyday?

What if Kolbie absolutely will not let me? What am I going to do? I cannot lose my baby!

 

You'll need to work on behavior shaping.

!) Divide what you want to accomplish into numerous small steps.

2) Find things which are positive reinforcements for him - could be food, play, brushing, etc.

3) One step at a time, take the step, work on it and use positive reinforcement when the cat cooperates.

Use multiple sessions per day, of about 5-15 minutes max.
Space the training sessions out.
Don't go to the next step until the step you are on is mastered.
Sometimes, you have to backtrack to the previous step. It may need to be broken into smaller steps.

 

Testing - When and Why

1) We test before giving insulin (pre-shot) to make sure it is safe to give.

2) We may test at +2 hours after giving insulin to see how fast the glucose is dropping. If the numbers suggest the drop may be too big, we'll continue testing every 2 hours (or sooner if it looks like it'll get below 50) to identify if we need to intervene.

3) We test around the expected low point to see how low the glucose goes. For Novolin, this is around +3 to +4 hours after the shot. For Prozinc, this is about +5 to +6 hours after the shot. For Lantus, this is +5 to +7 hours after the shot. For Levemir, this is around +6 to +8 hours after the shot.

4) If the glucose goes below 50, we'll start a testing/feeding/15 minute wait and repeat process until the numbers come up to a safe level.

5) When we have stable dose management, we'll do a curve - testing from pre-shot to pre-shot, every 2 hours.

 

Dose: If you cannot blood glucose test well, we advise the start low, go slow approach.

Begin with a small dose, such as 0.5 units. Keep working on testing.

While you do that, use the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link to get clues about how Kolbie is doing. They aren't perfect, but they do help you see if improvements are ocurring.

 

Ali,

Could you describe your testing procedure for us, in steps. Last night a newbie on Health finally got a good reading. We had missed that she was using a meter that took a large drop and that she hadn't taken off the cap of the lancet. It's easier to give ideas if we know exactly what you are doing or not doing.

 

Ok sure. I can do that. I wanted to mention to you that getting his insulin in him last night and today was SO DIFFICULT and it was not like this before. He has been getting his shot since January so between the treats he loves and the lovings I give him...he was taking it ok.. The home testing really freaked him out.

I will be back to answer you. It is my moms birthday so I need to do a couple things. But I do want to run this by you for sure. Thank you for asking me this.

 

I apologize I did not answer this sooner Sue. There have been a few things that have kept me offline lately. I actually never sign off which I know is not a good idea so I have to start remembering to do that.

Step by step:

I was testing Kolbie in my bedroom because this is where he was sort of sleepy and more compliant. I have learned now I need to change is spot because I don't want him afraid of the ONLY space in his home that is just for HIM. (Another story)

I have all his testing equipment ready. I first warm up his ear which he really does not like very much. He currently has 2-3 Mast Cell Tumors behind his ears so he does not like his ears to be touched at all for that reason especially. I also don't know if the heat bothers the Tumors.

After I can see the vein...I have my cotton sway and I poke his ear. I have poked him and not drawn blood...I have poked him and caused a lot of blood. My heart sinks when I poke him and nothing happens. As soon as I poke him he flies off the bed. But he lets me pick him back up. If he did not bleed the we have a problem. He will not let me go back in for another poke without an extreme fight which only causes extreme stress. I know this raises his sugar.

As a result of this..he then will not let me give him his insulin....for a day or two and then there is a great concern. I have had to call my VET for advice. She has asked meto stop temporarily just so I can get his insulin into him and to play with him more during the day. She has asked me to go to him more often so he knows that everything time I go to him it is not going ot be for poking or insulin.

In the past, I never had to GO TO HIM, because he stayed downstairs. But my step dad diEd in February of a very unexpected heart attack due to shoveling in the blizzard. He was only 63 and today I am having a bad day with it all. Due to his death I now have my mom and 2 dogs living here. So Kolbie has had to go from living with me to 2 dogs and it has been a major, major adjustment. Also, financially I am totally broke now. I had no oil and no way to get it but I was able to get it thru elder services due to my mom. The dogs cost a lot and my baby Kolbie costs a lot since is diagnosis. Also, I used all my money to pay for surgeries to have his Mast Cell Tumors Removed but they came back anyway.....after 4 different surgeries. He needs another one but I can't address that now and can only pray he will be ok until I do.

So this is how I do it. I know I wrote more. I hope you don't mind. I guess I wanted you to know why things have been more stressful for all of us.

 

You certainly do have a lot of things that make this sugar dance difficult, Ali. How is he doing with the shots now? Do you give them while he is eating?

How about starting over with the testing? First, find that spot where you will test (agree bedroom is not best place; others use the bathroom). First, just play with his ears, praise him and give him a treat (have you found something he really likes that you can use for this only?). After a few times doing that, try heating the eat, praise and treats. (are the tumors all over the edge of the ear? You can poke down to the fold if that is a better place. Are they on both ears? You can poke either one). Finally, after you have regained his trust and he is eager each time for a treat, try the poke.

Questions about the poke: 25-27 gauge lancet? Can you see where to poke when using the lancet? You want to see the needle so you can tell you are poking in those little capillaries that run from the vein to the edge of the ear. You do have to be firm and poke with confidence. If you draw back or are tentative, it may not be enough to get blood. What do you have behind his ear to poke against? Some people like a folded kleenix; some like a little makeup sponge.

If he would let you, you can "milk" the ear. On the side of the poke, press lightly toward the place you poked so the blood will move. If you have to (you need a number to keep him safe) you can poke the vein.

Most often, people don't get blood because the ear is not warm enough in the beginning or the lancet is not making a big enough hole. If you have solved both those, we need to help with something else.

Almost everyone on the forum eventually does get it. Sometimes it takes weeks but eventually they find the method that works. That's what this is all about - finding the way that works for you and Kolbie. Everyone has tricks that worked for them. You just have to figure out what you and Kolbie need.

 

You certainly do have a lot of things that make this sugar dance difficult, Ali. How is he doing with the shots now? Do you give them while he is eating?

How about starting over with the testing? First, find that spot where you will test (agree bedroom is not best place; others use the bathroom). First, just play with his ears, praise him and give him a treat (have you found something he really likes that you can use for this only?). After a few times doing that, try heating the eat, praise and treats. (are the tumors all over the edge of the ear? You can poke down to the fold if that is a better place. Are they on both ears? You can poke either one). Finally, after you have regained his trust and he is eager each time for a treat, try the poke.

Questions about the poke: 25-27 gauge lancet? Can you see where to poke when using the lancet? You want to see the needle so you can tell you are poking in those little capillaries that run from the vein to the edge of the ear. You do have to be firm and poke with confidence. If you draw back or are tentative, it may not be enough to get blood. What do you have behind his ear to poke against? Some people like a folded kleenix; some like a little makeup sponge.

If he would let you, you can "milk" the ear. On the side of the poke, press lightly toward the place you poked so the blood will move. If you have to (you need a number to keep him safe) you can poke the vein.

Most often, people don't get blood because the ear is not warm enough in the beginning or the lancet is not making a big enough hole. If you have solved both those, we need to help with something else.

Almost everyone on the forum eventually does get it. Sometimes it takes weeks but eventually they find the method that works. That's what this is all about - finding the way that works for you and Kolbie. Everyone has tricks that worked for them. You just have to figure out what you and Kolbie need.


Ok I copied your entire post in here so I could see your questions:

First question.. I just started to give him his morning shot while he is eating and that seems to be going a little bit easier. His night time shot is still a massive wrestle and sometimes I get hurt during this process. I have 2 herniated discs in my back and my right arm is in a brace so when he REALLY wants to get away...and pushes and pulls...it is tough. Sometimes we are up in my room by this time in order to have some peace and quiet...alone together. One of the dogs just started darting at Kolbie and growling. But when he protects himself she screeches with this God awful noise like something so bad just happened to her. He does not have front claws so he could have hissed. This dog is really afraid of him but she is invading all of his space now.

How can I tell the gauge? I have two boxes...one I bought when I got my shopping list from here and one that a friend gave me. Where does it say? I think my box is not since the person who came here wrote it ON MY BOX. I also have a few small ones that came with the lancing pen. I thought the pen would be easier but no one has Been able to even tell me how to use it.

Yes I can see where to poke but I hope I was taught correctly. Um...lets see...his Tumors...they are not on the tips of his ears. They are behind his ears so he hates being touched anywhere near his ears. He always has actually. I have tried to clean his ears and the VET has to do it. He just absolutely hates having anythg or anyone near his ears...

I was told and taught to use cotton between him and my hand....I have poked myself right through this though. Is there something better?

I think I answered everything?

Can you tell me how to tell what gauge I am using?

Also from what I think you are saying is to take these steps individually so he can get used to each one.

He is going to the VET so she can get a sense of where he is at. He has missed his insulin too many times and we both want to make sure he is ok. He also has been sleeping more and eating less. His appetite seems to be better today which I am happy about. I have been really worried about him between his appetite and missing his insulin.

Also, my Vet did not want to make any food changes until after she sees him. She said that we could start making those changes but it is not something we can do fast. If I all of a sudden drastically switched his food his sugar would drop and his insulin dose would not be correct.

So my big question for you....and I asked you this before...When the one who trained me came here she was telling me dosaging based on Lantus. With the ProZinc, when home testing...how do you know know how much insulin to give him based on his BG?


Thank you!

 

One more thing....

I have to do a few things...so if I don't respond right away...I will.

 

Most lancets have the size on the box somewhere like (although it is finer than the ones you want)this one. If you got them locally, maybe take them back to the drug store and ask the pharmacists. You do want the ones that go with your lancet brand. You could take the lancet in and ask them to show you how to use it. (don't tell them it's for a cat. They will be happy to help a human diabetic)

http://www.amazon.com/BD-Ultra-Fine-II-Gauge-Lancets/dp/B003GQVAQ8

I can't remember, are his feet any less sensitive? You might do the same desensitizing approach with his paws and see if they might work. You do need to warm them up also.

One of the advantages of ProZinc is that dosing is flexible. One of the disadvantages is that there is no protocol. We don't say, if you get this, do this. Every cat seems to be a little different in their response. But just generally, you don't shoot below 200 in the beginning because you don't have enough data to know how low he might go. Instead, you wait 20 minutes without feeding (which raises bg levels) and retest. You want to be sure he is rising (you don't want to shoot a number that is still going down) and that he is over 200. Once you have some data, you can look back and see what a particular dose did on one day and assume it may work that way again. So say he is at 300 at preshot and 200 at nadir (lowest point in the cycle, usually 5-7 hours after the shot) and 325 at pm preshot. You see if these are his usual numbers for a few cycles. If so, you have room to add a little insulin. We
like increasing by .5 if the numbers run in the 400-500s and by less, .25 if they are in the lower ranges. You hold that dose a few cycles (unless he goes too low) and reevaluate. And we help you with the decisions as does your vet.

In general, we consider a cat regulated if the are in the mid 200s at preshot and under 100 but not below 40 at nadir. A cat in the 40s is going lower than is safe and you need to add some carbs to bring the number up. A cat in remission ranges from 40-120 off insulin.

I agree with your vet that it is safest to not change his diet or dose until you get the testing down. Then you can finesse things. Right now, I would be testing for ketones (urine testing) and be in tune with how he is acting. If he would ever start acting strange - as if he can't see, or start howling or have a seizure, you want to go to the vet or ER. It would be likely his bgs are too low and he is hypoing. If he becomes lethargic and stops eating, use your ketone strips to watch for ketones. Any color on the strip needs a trip to the ER.

 

Ok...thank you. I THINK I understand. I have to reread that a few times to digest it. I will probably have questions. And I got the lancets at Walmart like everything else. I got it all thru the mail.

 

If the cotton ball behind the war isn't working, try something else. I use a rice sock-baby sock partially filled w/ dry rice & tied or sewn shut. I made it originally to heat Cass's eats (30s in microwave) but now it's a fairly firm surface to poke against. Some people prefer an old pill bottle filled w/ warm water-again, a poking surface.

I find I'm more consistent w/ the lancet pen, and the clear cap helps me see where I'm aiming.

 

Can you tell me how to use the lancet pen?

 

There is a cap on one end that comes off; it probably came w/ a solid cap that has adjustavle depth settings. Most pens now come w/ a clear cap for alternate site testing (somewhere other than a finger tip). I prefer the clear cap even though depth isn't adjustable with mine (some still are). Remove the cap and insert a lancet. You need lancets that match the pen-they aren't all interchangeable. Twist the tip off the lancet to expose the point, then put the cap back on. The other end is spring loaded; pull back to set the lancet. Hold you cat.s ear flat on a rice sock, cotton ball, etc.-something with firm support that also keeps you from poking yourself. Aim for the outer edge of the ear, about 2/3,1/2 way from the tip. Press the button on the side, without letting whatever's behind the.ear to move. You may need to squeeze gently on either side of the hole for a drop to form. It's recommended you use a new lancet for each test, but at least replace them regylarly because they get dull. Hope this helps.

 

Lisa gave you a wonderful picture of how lancets work. I'd suggest you try it on yourself first so you are familiar with how it works. ( A tiny bit of pain for Kolbie )

 

I have a quick question that I need answered right now regarding his insulin... I am ot sure if anyone is here though. I have had mixed messages about the timing of his insulin. I was told at one point that he had to have his insulin the same time every day....so I have been following that within a half hour or so... Scheduling and Kolbie does not always permit.

Today we have been up since 2 AM and Kolbie has been eating/grazing all morning. Can you give your cat insulin at different times or do you need to definitely wait the 12 hours in between?

Thank you!

 

The 12 hours is best, especially as you are not testing. You never know when he is on the rise and you do not want to shoot when his numbers are falling. Once you are testing, you can be more flexible because you can take two quick tests and find out if he is on the rise.

 

With ProZinc/PZI type insulins, timing is much more forgiving because there is no carry over (aka depot, shed)

As you acquire data on Kolbies response to dose, you may even be able to develop a sliding scale where you adjust the dose based on his preshot number plus knowledge of how much he drops with a given dose at that number.

 

Good Morning Ali :smile:

I've been reading along and following your story. Kolbie sounds like a special guy. He's not sweet to just anyone, he's a mama's boy and only sweet on his mama!

Ali, if you have time, could you give us some more specifics? Maybe not necessarily just about Kolbie but about your life too? Your Mom is living with you now, is she healthy or do you have to take care of her? How do you spend your days and has that changed since your Mom and the dogs moved in? What about the dogs, do they stay indoors all the time, or do you have a yard they can play in for an hour or two every day? Or is it too cold there for them to be outside that long? Do the dogs stay downstairs or do they go upstairs to the bedrooms too, or do you have a basement and that is where the dogs stay? It might help everyone understand better how we can help you and Kolbie if we can better understand the changes that have happened in your home.

How did your weekend go with Kolbie? Were you able to give him his insulin shots over the weekend without too much fuss? Do you give Kolbie his insulin shot while he is eating, or right before or right after he eats? Is he still eating the Fancy Feast and Friskies, and is it the canned food or dry food or a mix of both? Have you been able to try the FortiFlora or digestive enzymes that BJM suggested? What kind of treats are Kolbies favorite, or does he just like them all? :smile: Do you give him treats when you give his insulin shot? Do you feed Kolbie in the kitchen? Where do the dogs eat? Do you have to feed Kolbie someplace different now that the dogs are in the house? Are Kolbies days different now that the dogs are staying with you, or does he still go everywhere he used to go in the house? Or is Kolbie hiding out all day in the bedroom now? You mentioned the vet wanted to see Kolbie again soon to check and see how he is doing. When is his next vet appointment?

I know it is a lot of questions and if you don't have time to answer, I understand. I'm just trying to understand what extra stress you and Kolbie have to deal with now, or if things are the same and not much has changed.

 

I first want to ask Lisa if she cou,d clarify something for me to do with the lancet pen. You said:

Remove the cap and insert a lancet. You need lancets that match the pen-they aren't all interchangeable. Twist the tip off the lancet to expose the point, then put the cap back on. The other end is spring loaded; pull back to set the lancet

What do you mean...remove the cap and insert and then later twist the tip off the lancet to expose the point? So it has a cap and I have to twist a tip off?

Thank you!

 

Do you know what brand of lancets you use?

 

Ali, if you have time, could you give us some more specifics? Maybe not necessarily just about Kolbie but about your life too? Your Mom is living with you now, is she healthy or do you have to take care of her? How do you spend your days and has that changed since your Mom and the dogs moved in? What about the dogs, do they stay indoors all the time, or do you have a yard they can play in for an hour or two every day? Or is it too cold there for them to be outside that long? Do the dogs stay downstairs or do they go upstairs to the bedrooms too, or do you have a basement and that is where the dogs stay? It might help everyone understand better how we can help you and Kolbie if we can better understand the changes that have happened in your home.

How did your weekend go with Kolbie? Were you able to give him his insulin shots over the weekend without too much fuss? Do you give Kolbie his insulin shot while he is eating, or right before or right after he eats? Is he still eating the Fancy Feast and Friskies, and is it the canned food or dry food or a mix of both? Have you been able to try the FortiFlora or digestive enzymes that BJM suggested? What kind of treats are Kolbies favorite, or does he just like them all? Do you give him treats when you give his insulin shot? Do you feed Kolbie in the kitchen? Where do the dogs eat? Do you have to feed Kolbie someplace different now that the dogs are in the house? Are Kolbies days different now that the dogs are staying with you, or does he still go everywhere he used to go in the house? Or is Kolbie hiding out all day in the bedroom now? You mentioned the vet wanted to see Kolbie again soon to check and see how he is doing. When is his next vet appointment?

Hi Rebekah,

I never wou,d have remembered what you had written if I did not copy it. Yes you are right. Kolbie is a big mamas boy. He has always been that way since I rescued him and his brother. We lost his brother a year ago suddenly and unexpectedly to an undetected heart defect. It is still devastating. Kolbie did better with his insulin for the most part. I started giving it to him either when he is eating or while he is having treats. My mom is so so. I don't have to carE for her in the way you are thinking but since she lost her own husband she has been under a lot of stress as well. She too is under a great deal of financial stress. And I take on her stress as well. I make a lot of calls for her and try to make things easier for her. My days have definitely changed since the dogs. They need to go out and Maggie has severe allergies and she is not getting better. Even today I forced her out of bed to make her go for a very short walk. Before we went out I noticed she was bleeding from her scratching herself. I have 2 herniated discs in my back and a bad arm so I don't usually walk them. We don't have a fenced in area here. So we have to take them out every time they need to go out. They do not stay in a basement. Kolbies schedule has changed due to the dogs. He used to be king of the house and the one here. Now he is up in my room which is his only safe place to be. He used to sleep on the couch in the afternoon.. But he doesn't feel safe with the dogs. Mollie screeches when she gets scared of Kolbie and all he does is look at her and she freaks out. If she doesn't know that he is looking at her she gets so scared she screams so loud that is scares ALL OF US! Kolbie now has to eat on top of tables...inc,using in my room or he would never see his food. The dogs would eat it and Maggie is allergic to God knows what anymore...poor Maggie. So Kolbies eating habits have been changed too. He can't even walk to his liter box without Mollie usually laying in the kitchen with my mother in his way...so she gets scared and goes after him...he reacts and she screeches!!!! Then we all react!!, it is too stressful! Kolbie gets treats after his shots. My days revolve around the animals....and I am in chronic pain from my back and arm. I have had other health issues lately too. But I have also applied for some babysitting jobs because I need cash badly. I am beyond broke.i don't even know how I am going to pay for Kolbies insulin, food and necessary things for myself. I don't have any cash on me and it has never been this way before. Since my back injury my entire life changed. I could not walk at first. But after 3 years of treatment I can do a lot more now. But I still have to just live with the pain. That they can't fix. So that is our story. I think I answered everything? Oh and I didn't know anything about enzymes.... I missed that? I wouldn't be able to buy them right now anyway....sorry I missed it. Phewwwwwww I think I got it all.

 

All pens are a little different; here's an example:

There is a cap on the end of the pen that you remove to add the lancet, then put back on before testing. On many pens this cap twists to adjust the depth; to remove, just tug.


The lancet has a round part that covers the sharp edge; this is the tip you twist off.

 

Good Morning Ali,

How was your evening last night? I hope you and Kolbie had a restful night. You answered a lot of my questions and I think I am starting to understand a little. So, the only place in the house Kolbie is relaxed is in your bedroom; I'm guessing the dogs don't go in there. The dogs are in the sitting room (living room) and in the kitchen. Are there other rooms in the house where the dogs do NOT go, other than your bedroom? Is there another bedroom or a bathroom the dogs do not go in? It sounds like Kolbie lost a lot of space in the house, space that used to be his but now the dogs have taken over. It used to be Kolbie's litter box space, but now the dogs are there. It used to be Kolbie's napping spot on the couch, but now the dogs are there. It used to be Kolbies spot to eat, but now he is on top of tables to eat.

I'm sorry Molly is not feeling well, but if she is going after Kolbie, that's not okay. When our dogs get sick (our Julie has allergies too) they are not very nice. Ali, I'm sure you can understand. When you are having a bad day and hurting more, you don't feel like being super nice to everyone. Molly isn't feeling well and isn't feeling like being super nice to Kolbie either. I'm sure Molly's behavior is stressing out Kolbie, and it sounds like Molly is stressing everyone else too with her screaming.

Kolbie needs space that is his. Kolbie needs space where the dogs don't go, where the dogs are not allowed. That is where Kolbie should have his litter box, where he should eat, where he gets his shot and where he can sleep. Can you move all of Kolbie's things to a special area just for Kolbie, so Kolbie doesn't have to go near the dogs?

I asked you a few questions in my post and I put them here so you don't have to search for them up above, plus a couple more:
*Are there other rooms in the house where the dogs do NOT go, other than your bedroom? Maybe another bedroom or a bathroom the dogs do not go in?

*Can you move all of Kolbie's things to a special area just for Kolbie, so Kolbie doesn't have to go near the dogs?

*Did Kolbie get his insulin shot okay last night?

*When is Kolbie's next vet appointment?

 

Rebekah,

I didn't realize you' were new like me. Please don't take this the wrong way...I am just wondering why you have asked so many questions? Is it normal to be asked this many questions? I only ask because I am not online much do to my life and animals so I don't have the time to answer personal questions on a regular basis. I understand if they are about Kolbie but a lot were about my life.

I am figuring out the home testing and how do I post his readings.. This is where I need to place my energy. Ill quickly say the only place the dogs don't go is in my room. There is not a lot of space here. The other room is my mothers bedroom where the dogs sleep. The bathroom is a free for all. Kolbie actually drinks in there. Since day me he has drank from the bathtub. I put a bowl in it. I am not moving Kolbies box into my bedroom. I do not want him confined to one room. He has the right to roam wherever he wants to. I am not taking away his freedom. Even though the dogs are around, he still comes around them. HE takes his space upstairs to sleep and we sleep in their at night. But I don't want everything upstairs so he has to be upstairs for everything.

 

I wanted to add something...

First of all...thank you very much Lisa. I really appreciate you showing me that.

And Rebekah please don't be offended by what I wrote. This is all new to me so I don't know what to expect. If I in any way said something to offend you I certainly didn't mean it. I just don't know what the norm is around here since I am new. And I am not online much....that's all. I hope I didn't come across the wrong way...if so...I truly apologize. :shock:

 

One tactic which may be helpful for Kolbie is having some safe spaces where he can get away from the dogs. This may be accomplished a number of ways.

One is to use some baby gates for selected rooms if Kolbie is able to jump over them.

Another is to create some cat 'stairways' up to vertical space - some conveniently placed, small shelves between a couch and the top of a bookcase, for example. Many cats like to perch above and watch their domains.

 

No problem; that's the poinr of these forums. I have some experience I can share. When you get more used to the sugar dance, you repay by helping someone else. I'm sorry I didn't add pics the first time, but it's hard to do on the phone.

 

I have a thought about shelves a few times. Right now it is a matter of money. I would .ovefor him to even have his own cat climbing structure. He is a big, big boy so it cannot be one of those small ones where he tries to fit in a hole. I can see it now.....he dives in head first and his big butt is sticking out! LOL HA HA HA!

Rebekah, I understand your questions better now. Did I miss any? Oh..Kolbie goes to the Vet on Tuesday...all day. Then I will talk with my vet about his dosage and any changes that need to be made. I also want to talk to her about changing his dry food. We had talked about changing his food around this time. But money is an issue there too. Kolbie is so so on his shot. Sometimes he is letting me do it easily and other times he is my little PIP. But I love him so much...more than anything in this entire world. So I will do whatever I have to do for him. He is my baby boy...my lil guy.


So if I can't get Kolbie shelves, do you know of something I can do for him? I do have one gate. I use that if the dogs are bothering Kolbie while he is eating. Mollie was terrified of Kolbie today and I felt bad. She stayed here with me while Maggie had to go to the Vet. I was surprised she stayed. But because she was so scared of Kolbie she jumped on the other end of the couch. She didn't know that this could have been a potential big problem since Kolbie lays at the other end if I am sitting on the couch and he is comfortable enough to stay down here. So I kept telling her to get DOWN but she wouldn't. So I fed Kolbie a little to keep him occupied and got her off....

I have to be somewhere on Thursday and Saturday so most likely won't be online at all those days. I have a lot I have to do around here tomorrow too. I will try to check in...in the morning...

It is new with all 3 of them...and we are all still adjusting.. I am just now realizing that my dad is gone. I have been burying all my emotions in a period of such numbness... The dogs are still waiting for him to drive up and pick them up. Whenever they hear a car door close they run to the door thinking it is him. It is getting really sad. It is just starting to sink in...

I have to get my lil baby ready for his last meal and medicine... So we are off to my room. Good night everyone and thank you so much for your help with my little boy!

 

Kolbie has gotten sick 4 times this morning!

Kolbie has thrown up 3 times this morning. He woke me up at 230-300 AM throwing up on my bedroom rug...not once but twice. Typically this is due to the food he has overnight. Right now since we haven't changed his food and because Kolbie grazes he gets some wet food a little before 8 PM. Also that is his scheduled shot time right now so he needs to eat. If we go up for quiet time at 8PM he does get a little extra food....which my VET knows about...or he wakes me every hour for food.

Then Maggie got up and came downstairs staring up at me because she needed to go outside at this time as well. Needless to say, I never went back to bed. Kolbie was yelling for food now that his stomach was empty....so I fed him and did not even realize he threw that up as well on the blanket that we have covering the dining room table where he eats. I said 4 but that's 3. I think I am forgetting one now due to being just over tired. This so the second day this week that I got up at 2 AM. I am a sleeper. I need my sleep and I am not one of those people who can get by on a few hours of sleep. I usually sleep anywhere from 8-10.5 hours a night. Sometimes more!

Kolbie does throw up his food at times from eating too fast but I get very worried when he does it 2 or more times in a shirt period of time. My Vet told me to keep a close eye on that due to his Mast Cell Tumors. So now I am really worried. I was hugging him last night and saying that I just cannot lose him. I miss his brother so much I cannot imagine losing Kolbie.

QUESTION...DO DIABETICS THROW UP MORE THAN REGULAR CATS?

Thank you!

 

If his insulin took his glucose too low or if he isn't on enough insulin (yes - either direction), he will be ravenous and do a scarf n barf.

Try smearing his food across a plate to slow him down. And/or freeze part of it to thaw and be nibbled as it thaws.

Smell his breath - do you get a fruity or nail polish remover smell? He could have ketones and would need to see a vet asap.

Gently lift the scruff of his neck and release. Does it stay tented up then slowly go down or does it snap back pretty quickly? If it stays tented, he could be moderately to severely dehydrated. Again, another vet visit is indicated unless you have sub-Q fluids at home.

 

Sorry he has an upset tummy, Ali.

An idea I had for getting places higher he could go and feel safe: If there is any way to move the furniture so he has a "walkway" up to a higher place, that can make him feel safer. Like a stool next to a bookcase next to a higher piece. Being able to look down on big dogs would be a great feeling. :mrgreen:

 

Um...I'm confused...

His stomach settled and he ate after that fine. His breath has actually been horrible lately. I have not known if it is the fishy food or if it is new. He knocks me out. Not sure what you mean by .....what will snap back? His scruff or his neck? I know it sounds silly even as I write it.... Like, obviously his neck will go back, right?

Sue, hmmmm have to think if I can move anything....right now...all 3 are sleeping so I am just going to take some ME time. Shhhhhhhhhh

 

Any evidence of dental disease like tartar or red gums? If yes, a dental cleaning is advised; this can reduce glucose levels if infection is present.

The fur and skin pulled up should snap right back down when released.

 

BJM,

Thank you forgot laughing at me. As I wrote that question I felt like an idiot but I had to make sure.

I won't be here today but I needed to jump on because I missed with his insulin. Kolbie got sick AGAIN today. It was right after he ate so he got too hungry. The food I left him for last night he did not eat it so he was actually nudging me to wake up an hour in a half than our normal time. I thought he was just begging for food so I ignored him and fell back to sleep since I did not sleep the night before. When the alarm went off...he knows what that means.

Have you seen that video where the animated cat tries to wake his owner? At first he nudges his owner and scratches the blankets on top of him, pulling them up with his claws? The owner stays asleep and rolls over...the cat literally pounces on him and still nothing... So the cat gets a baseball bat and whacks him!!! %{*#%*%^^# BANG BING BOOM! The owner wakes up? And the kitty is laying there all innocently and stretches like he just woke up... The owner is all frazzled as to what happened. Ok....the reason for this story? THIS IS MY INNCOCENT LITTLE KOLBIE BOY! Uh huh...so innocent... HA HA

Ok...so seriously Kolbie got too hungry by the time he ate and then I had to en a few cans in order for him to eat anything. He on,y ate a little. I went to give him his shot when he was in a very awkward position....but he was laying down because he didn't feel well and I didn't want to move him. He didn't even fight me for the shot. BUT I MISSED...OR AT LEAST MOST OF IT. I didn't dare to give him anymore since I know the rule on that. He is sound asleep right now... I am getting concerned about this. Though he has been thru this before and then he just stopped. I am overly anxious about anything that he does out of the norm of a regular cat right now. SIGH....

As far as his breath? The Vet said he does not have dental issues. Funny thing about how you have to find a Vet you can trust though... As opposed to the ones who want to make money.. When both my babies were about a year I took them to the Vet that the dogs go to. That Vet told me that both cats had gingivitis. This same Vet told me to not to worry about the bumps on Kolbies face, that they were no big deal and not worth taking off. My instincts took over and insisted since he had little white things on his face. The white things? Those ended up being his cancerous Mast Cell Tumors. I left there after that and went to a new Vet.. That Vet said their teeth were fine....actually 2 Vets said it because I was u clear who to see at first. But both said their teeth were fine... After the Vet I had been seeing for a while ignored me about Jacks symptoms and he died suddenly and so tragically. Now with the Vet I have...I trust her with everything... She has said Kolbies teeth are fine... It is such a relief to find a VET that I can truly trust.

 

Scarf 'n' barf may be reduced by smearing the food across a plate.

Food interest may be perked with Grated Parmesan cheese sprinkled on it, warming it up, Forti Flora, sprinkling dried bonito flakes on it, pouring a bit of tuna juice on it (make sure it isn't in vegetable broth which may have onions)

 

Food interest may be perked with Grated Parmesan cheese sprinkled on it, warming it up, Forti Flora, sprinkling dried bonito flakes on it, pouring a bit of tuna juice on it (make sure it isn't in vegetable broth which may have onions)


What are bonito flakes?

I had to leave for a while this afternoon but when I got home he came down to greet me and ate a little bit. His appetite seems to have decreased. But couldn't this be from his insulin being increasd and being more regulated? I am hoping that is why since he did have an increase last week. I don't even remember what he normally used to eat. But he is a big cat so in the past couple of years he has eAten a little more than he did before.

He is back upstairs and the dogs have left so I am going to go check on him....

 

Another question: someone on the boards said that when you home test that you could give a little food to him first just to settle him down because he is so hungry at that time before you test him? Is this true?

 

If you can test before it digests, sure. And since it can take a minimum of 15-30 minutes before anything starts to hit the blood stream (ex karo, honey are faster than food), you have a small window of time to get an accurate test. Plus, there may be less squirming.

 

Great! I was hoping so because he is all about food in the morning. He yells at me non stop until he is fed...that meowing could drive a sane person nuts let alone me :lol:

Kolbie was just given a little house.. An inflatable dog house actually that was meant for the dogs and he loved playing in there. So I'm hoping he will continue to like it...I put his toys in there... Bag and string...equals toys.

 

Watch out for string - swallowed, it can tangle in the intestines and cut through them.

 

Hope Kolbie does good today at the vet! :smile: It might be worthwhile to ask if the vet has any ideas on how you can restrain Kolbie without aggravating your back or arm (so you can have success every time with his insulin shot). She is familiar with working with him and might have a tried and true method that she can share.

 

Kolbie went to the vet And I need to change a few things. It has been a rough week. I am going to come back this afternoon and share with you guys. I have to run for now but wanted to check in to let you know where we are at. I will be starting the home testing.

 

We'll be watching for your new post, Ali. How about starting a new thread then?

 

Ok...I will start a new thread. I know I have not been online. I have not felt well all week long so it has been rough. Kolbie had to go to the VET and I almost passed out waiting for them to tell me I was all set to leave. I knew I was all set since I saw my VET but the check out people did not talk to the other people so I was standing there for 15 more minutes in a very hot room when already not feeling well. So the rest of the week I have still not felt well to be able to post here.

Kolbies weight seems to be stabling out which is good. His BG was good when during a curve. There is a concern due to the amount he is vomiting. This could be a much bigger problem due to his mast cell Tumors so I am very, very worried. I cannot lose him.... He is my world.

 

Bonito flakes are dried fish flakes. You may find them at a large-ish pet store or at an Asian grocery.

1/4 of a Pepcid AC regular 10mg, given 10-15 minutes before eating, may help reduce upset/acid stomach. You mentioned that his breath smells horrible - does it smell like urine at all? That may be a sign of renal disease starting up as could be a more acid stomach.

 

No, not like urine. I think It may be me just feeling sick from the fish smell from his food. He had a good check up. I am note feeling well at all right now so we are a little behind schedule. I have some sort of bug and cannot shake it. I am literally on the couch all day and then in bed at 7 PM. I really want and need to help my baby ASAP. I am hoping to feel better real soon. This is pulling at my heart strings.

 

I'm so sorry you are feeling bad, Ali. Good that he got a good check up. He has been okay doing what you are doing so he should continue. Dry food and a higher dose is not ideal by any means but may keep him out of hypo numbers till you can work with testing and diet change. Just monitor his behavior carefully.

 

Hi Ali,

I'm sorry you are not feeling well, get better soon.

I'm glad to hear that you are going to start home testing. You will be amazed at how much more in control you will feel in Kolbie's treatment by knowing what his bg's are any time you want to. Especially if something seems off, a test will tell you if he's high or low and you will be able to deal with it.

Robin

 

Ok...so I made some attempts at testing him today. I didn't do a great job but I did get some numbers. Should I start a new thread? And I am not sure how to post them yet....I haven't tried.

 

Great news, Ali. Do you still have acess to your spreadsheet? Put them on there and then, if you want, send me a pm with your password to this site. I'll put them in your signature.

 

Yay!!!! Welcome to the Vampire Club!!!! Let Sue help you link the spreadsheet to your signiture If it wern't for the help from Sue & Michele I wouldn't have a spreadsheet or a picture of my Harley. ohmygod_smile

 

Ok sue...I will send you that info!

 

Sue, I have fallen ill again so I am so sorry I have not gotten you the information. This is so hard when I am sick and doing Kolbie too. I have also been so overwhelmed because I have found at least 5 more cancerous Mast Cell Tumors on him. I am so full of worry. He has never ever had this many and they seem to just be multiplying all over him.

I am keeping track of his numbers.

Today he was... 280 pre shot 4 units given

 

Sorry you have been under the weather, Ali. Congrats on getting a test! Welcome to the Vampire club!

We normally tell new diabetics not to shoot under 200. A regulated cat is in the mid 200s at preshot. 280 a good number and normally would be a low number for 4 units. You are still feeding dry, right? In that case, the dry might keep the insulin from taking him too low, but if you can, please try to get a test midcycle.

 

Hang in there! Just keep putting 1 foot in front of the other and you'll get there, though it may not be as fast as you'd like.

I just had my civvie Tux in to have another lesion removed from her tail; she's had a mast cell tumor excised twice on her left lower eyelid (it came back once) and I suspect the pathology on this will be the same. She's only 9.

 

GRRRRRR, I have had no Internet to be here! This has been so frustrating to be doing this alone on top of the already frustrations that I am feeling!!! Kolbie has not been taking his insulin well for me at all since I started home testing him so I am not sure what to do now. I need to talk to my VET because this is what happened last time I began home testing. Since he basically gets away from me no matter how I hold him, pin him down...practically tackle him...he is not getting the needed insulin. I am very scared right now. I am wondering if I should stop for a few days so he can regroup... He is not trusting me right now and it is breaking my heart.

Yes, he is still on dry. I am so sad right now and it has been so hard to do this without being online. I may lose my Internet again so I am not sure how long I will have it. But I needed to be here while I have it and share with you.

Any suggestions?

 

BJM,

I missed your comment about the Mast Cell Tumors. Does your kitty have cancerous ones too? If so, I would really love to talk to you further. Kolbie is only 8 and has already had about 4 or 5 surgeries removing about 20 or so. It is hard to keep up. I noticed his little bumps when he was a kitten. This has been going in for years but I have always had them taken off so they do not spread to his organs. I was originally told he could get one more or 100 more. Apparently he is in the 100 more category. I have found a clue more since I last posted. It is a financial issue right now and my heart is broken. I literally want his entire body shaved just to find ALL of these suckers because I know they are hiding under his very thick fur and his rather large beautiful body... OMG he is going to be 9 in June. My baby is going to be 9!

 

We're glad to see you back! Do you give him his shot while he is eating? That made all the difference for us. If you can't do it while he is having breakfast or dinner, you might give him a few treats to keep him busy while you give the shot?

 

I'm so sorry you and Kolbie aren't feeling well. I hope that you both get well soon.

The key to testing is to give him his favorite treats after every test attempt even if they are unsucessful. Soon he will associate the tests with treats, and most kitties will come running for their test to get the treat.

Have you tried wrapping him in a towel like a burrito with only his head sticking out? with lots of praises and petting and treats. I use this method for nail trimming the civies.

I hope your internet holds out for you.

 

Merck Manual Mast Cell tumors.

Tux's have been isolated solitary tumors.

 

Ugh, I have not had any Internet for a while. I have to check from a friends computer so it has been so hard to get here. Thank you for the advice on wrapping Kolbie in a towel. I did it once before and he growled louder than any dog I have ever heard. But it is helpful as long as I don't give into his nasty tone. Nice to be here again.

 

Sue,

I have been trying to give Kolbie his shot while he eats. He has figured it out now. He actually moves so his side is to me or looks back and walks to the side of the plate so I cannot get to him. He is too smart. When he sees the treats he associates them with a bad thing. Sometimes he gives me a real run for my money....and it is a mad chase to give it to him. Those nights are no fun. He is a very difficult cat to do all of this to.

 

Welcome back. Growling is just growling, at least you could get a test, then treat and cuddles and loves.

 

I am still online for this moment so I am taking advantage of it. I just found out that Kolbies insulin expired a month ago!! Does anyone know the shelf life with the insulin we are using? Is it helping him at all? I am so worried now. I received this insulin a bit ago because I was allowed to get it for free on a one time basis only. I had no idea that it would be expired by now. I wish the VET held onto it and gave it to me when I ran out of the other bottle. If my VET knew what was occurring then I believe that is what she had done. But that whole day was a mess with major lack of communication and I just wanted to get Kolbie out of there after being there so long. UGH!

I am running on overload and feeling overwhelmed... Doing this on my own...meaning not being able to get online with you guys is so hard. Hopefully I will be able to be online again today. Thank you for all your help and kindness. It means so much!

 

I would think it would be ineffective. You could ask your vet to order PZI BCP. It's a compounded PZI and the first sample is usually free. I know money is tight for you.