Newcomer Libby

Hi .. I wanted to introduce myself as a newcomer I have a recently diagnosed diabetic cat named Callie. She and her siblings .. brother and sister and me makes for 4 in our family. She is the only one with diabetes, but I immediately put the other 2 on science diet light since they were a bit overweight. Now all are on the same feeding schedule and amounts. It makes it easier since there is so much to learn about this disease. Thank you to the person who wrote feline diabetes a-z for all the information. Although it is a lot to take in, I am trying. I ran a short curve of 4 tests over 8 hrs yesterday, but the levels made an N .. there was no curve and they were all low to mid 400's. I am using Lantus and my vet does not seem aggressive enough. I told her I was going to home test and she recommended a kit ($200.00) that is made for cats and dogs called AlphaTrak. I have lost some faith in my vet since home testing. She had said Callie was doing better and made me think she was either near regulation or she may be in the process of I guess what is called a "remission"? After my results now I don't know what to think. How can I tell my vet to get agressive with treatment. It has been 3 months and she is on her 2nd bottle and with these poor results. Does anyone know what may be the problem? Thanks for any help .. Libby

 

Welcome. Feeding dry food does not help. A low-carb canned food is best and you can feed all your cats that. How many of Lantus are your giving and how was that arrived at? Your first via of Lantus may have went bad. Most caretakers here use the Lantus disposable pens or cartridges. They come in a pack of five 3 ml cartridges/pens. They cost more per ml than the 10 ml vial but there is a lot less waste.

 

Welcome, Libby!

First, you diabetic cat needs to be on a low-carb wet food diet. Please see Janet & Binky's food chart here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. As you will see, you can feed your kitty Friskies, Fancy Feast, etc., much more economically than food purchased at the vet's, and the diet is much better Callie.

You mention using Lantus, and being on your second vial after three months. That sounds to me like Callie is getting ALOT of insulin...perhaps too much. Many of us use Lantus and have learned to "start low and go slow." If you navigate to the Lantus forum, you will see a number of sticky posts regarding Lantus and how it works. I would encourage you to read them, as Lantus (and its "shed') works differently that some other insulins. How much insulin are you giving Callie?

Good for you that you are willing to hometest! However, you absolutely DO NOT have to purchase an expensive kit to test Callie's BG levels. Human glucometers work just find, and many purchase from Wal-Mart because the test strips are less expensive. You can request what we call a Newbie Kit here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=19541

You are going to have a ton of questions...please feel free to post!

 

Hi and welcome! I'm glad you're researching and you found us.

Larry made some good points. There are better foods out there for you to choose, which are wet and lower in carbs. Wet food is good for kitties and the low carb is fine for all of them. You don't need to buy any fancy brands like Science Diet, which is exactly what I was feeding my kitties when Calliope was diagnosed. I returned all the fancy schmantzy foods to the vet and bought the low carb fancy feast grain free flavors and moved all 4 of my kitties to that. There are various brands of low carb foods to choose from. We generally recommend under 10 carbs and you can look at food lists under the nutrition thread here.

viewforum.php?f=14

Look for Janet and Binky's food lists.

Calliope was also on lantus, but the food switch made a world of difference and we were off the insulin in less than 3 weeks. Many kitties see lower blood sugar numbers when they go to low carb wet foods.

Great that you are hometesting!!! That's such a key to this. You definitely do not need to buy the expensive alpha trak meter, but not all vets are aware that human glucometers work well enough.
How often do you test between cycles and do you test before shooting?

I wouldn't write your vet off just yet. I disagreed with my vet on many things and now she calls me for my low carb wet food list after she recommended the science diet at diagnosis. She swore that what I fed wouldn't make any difference. I made a believer out of her when Calliope went into remission. I didn't agree with her on the starting dose either. I started at 1u bid and she wanted me to start at 4u bid. I never went higher than 1u. I think she simply hadn't treated many diabetic cats, so we both learned some things together and I still use her because there are other things I like about her. You may well teach your own vet some tricks of the trade by the time it's all said and done! Then, another kitty will benefit.

What dose are you own and when did you start with lantus?

When you say you want your vet to treat this more aggressively, I'm not sure I know what you mean. I think switching to low carb wet foods could be described at aggressively dealing with FD. However, with lantus, most folks start low and go slow. Lantus must settle and holding doses for periods of time to determine how the kitty does on them is usually the course of action with that insulin. Lantus likes consistency.

You can go to the board index and click on "lantus" under "insulin support groups" and read the stickies on lantus to learn more about how it works and how doses are decided upon.
Also read about handling the insulin.

I have a feeling your lantus could have gotten old and lost it's zest. Lantus is a human insulin and most humans go through a vial in no more than 30 days. Once opened, lantus tends to start losing it's strength after 30 days. Some people can get more days from it, but 30 days is generally about as long as it lasts in most cases. Also, it shouldn't be rolled or shaken and no air should be squirted into the bottle. It's somewhat delicate.

One reason the folks are now buying the lantus pens rather than the vials is that while they are more expensive up front, they get much more life out of them, as Larry pointed out, since you're not opening a vial at one time. These are smaller amounts, so rather than getting one month out of a vial, you can get a lot more time between purchases with the pens. The pens are discussed in the lantus stickies I mentioned earlier.
When you read the stickies on lantus and the health links, do note the information on hypos. It's really smart to have the tools on hand just in case your kitty suddenly goes lower than a comfortable level. It can save you a trip to the ER.

Ask whatever questions you have and folks will come around to help you. You're in a good place. This forum saved Calliope's life. Gave me another year and a half with her that I wouldn't have had before she went into unrelated kidney failure.

Welcome aboard!

 

I completely forgot to mention that Lantus is viable for feline use longer than the 28 days recommended for human use. Did you use two vials because you thought you had to throw it away after 28 days, or because you used up the vial?

 

I want to chime in and say that after two months, my Lantus vial is still half full. I hope you didn't toss it just because of that 28 day clause. My Lantus is still clear as a bell.

 

Unfortunately, even with two fuzzy butt's each getting 2U BID, I didn't make it through an entire vial. The SoloStar pens are great and I've yet had to toss any insulin! flip_cat

 

Hi again. I replied, but my reply got lost I guess. I have been reading all over the place on the site and did see Binky's page. I immediately got the dry away and put down a small amount of some canned ham I had. Callie went right for it. I thought the other 2 were also liking it, but I just checked and there is half left in their bowls. None have ever taken to the wet, but we are going to change all that! I am going to look at the canned food lists and going shopping tomorrow for a variety to test on this group. Right now though, it is Callie that I am most concerned about and she did eat the meat She has no symptoms now. She had the urine output over the top and water intake 4 times what the others drank. I took her to a different vet about 4 months before I went to this one. It was , like this one, my daughter's vet. Since she moved I accuired her new one. The first vet just said she was overweight. I told them something is more wrong than the weight, but when going to the new vet I did say to test for diabetes since a friend said those were symptoms! Finally we know what is wrong
Callie's BG was tested at the vet at first, but as I read up on this disease on other sites such as the felinediabetes.com I saw that home testing was what I needed to really see what was happening. I had tested her .. only did 2 good tests two weeks ago since I couldn't seem to find a spot on her ear that would give me enough of a sample. Both were between 135 and 145. Then yesterday I gave her four tests. Her shot was at 7am !st test at 8:15 results 423 2nd test at 10:39 results 443 3rd at 12:59 results 431 4th at 3:17 results 459. Her curve turned out to be an N. I decided to stop and went to the pharmacy and got the new vial. I .. like you all .. thought the solution had lost it's strength. I had at least 6 shots left and the formula was totally clear in the old one so I guess it may lose its power at around the 3 month stage .. at least for me. . I will test again tomorrow and see if there is a difference. Especially since I took away the dry food.
I am so glad to find a place where I can feel I am getting good information. I won't give up on the vet and as requested I'll fill her in on the wet food improvement which I now believe will be the case Maybe I CAN help other cats in the process. I am going roaming all over the site and am checking out the Lantus BB. So much to learn. Will be reading half the night I'm sure. Thanks to everyone for all the good advise and I'll post her results tomorrow if there is improvement. Oh and she was started out on 2 units then after 2 1/2 weeks went to 3. Now at month 3 we are up to 4 and a smidge ..... whatever that is. I just make sure the 4th unit is covered completely
Thanks again to all ... Libby and Callie

 

Libby, when you switch the food, you could see a difference IF you choose the lower carb foods, SO it will be extremely important for you test regularly during this time on that dose of 4 units. Generally, as some of stated, we start low and go slow on the dosing. Most folks start at 1unit and hold that for at least 7-10 days unless there's a real need to up it, but it generally takes that long for lantus to "settle" and the shed to fill as you will read about in the lantus stickies. After that if the dose needs to go up, usually it's raised in quarter units to see how that does and that's tried for 3 days or so and so on. If you got the lower readings early on and the lantus possibly lost it's strength, it could be that the lantus was working until it got old. It also could be that you went up and missed a lower dose that might have worked. No way to really know that, but because we can't tell. That's another reason to test before giving a shot and to get spot tests during the cycle when you can. I'm just wondering whether in increasing by whole units, you might have missed a good dose, since you had good numbers earlier.

With the higher numbers you reported in the 400's, it's important that you test for ketones in case of diabetic ketoacidosis. You check the urine with the ketostix from the pharmacy just like humans.

What type of meter do you have?

If you get any blood, there are some tricks to hometesting that help. One is to warm the ear, either by massaging it or other folks will make a rice sock, warm that in the microwave and hold it on the ear a bit to warm it. I used vaseline and smeared just a bit on Calliope's ear before testing because it caused the blood to bead up, making it easier for me to suck it all up! Also, if you think you're not getting much, if you milk the ear a bit, more blood make show up giving you enough to test. Try a few of those things to see if they help you get more blood. Also check the setting on your lancet device if that's what your using. I had to set mine pretty high. Calliope had leather ears! I took the cap off and just used the pen without it. It was easier for me and I got better pricks. I placed a folded tissue behind the ear, so I could apply the pressure easier. After you prick, apply pressure the ear for about 15 seconds to stop the bleeding and prevent bruising. I just used my folded tissue to do that.

Once you do some reading and ask some more questions if need be, you're going to have a better understanding of your insulin and what to look for. Do be cautious with the testing while changing the food.

 

Hello Libby and welcome changing diet makes such a diff I did not realize how much until I got Do Lou off dry but it took me a long time to switch him he had always eaten dry and really did not like canned so our change was sooo slow but his insulin intake really dropped when we finally made the entire switch. I want to let you know I do have the alpha trak BG meter I bought it just to compare it to my human meters I have the relion micro from walmart and I have the freestyle lite and the numbers on both these meters when I run a comparison as so close to the alpha trak that I recommend you just get a good lowcost human meter the walmart brand is the most affordable and many on these boards use this meter

I saw someone has already given you the link to the food chart is wonderful to have I feed my cats mostly merricks cowboy cookout and surf and turf are both 4% carbs and low in fat. There are so many are the chart to choose from just a matter of what your cat would like but try to stay at 10% carbs and under if you can. Also you might want to make sure you have or sometime soon to put together a hypo kit for having what you need in the event your cat might go low

Lisa http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... sg-1661798 link to the hypo toolkit

 

A few suggestions...

Most of us test using the ear; however, it is more important that you test, not where you test. If testing becomes a real problem using the ear, try using the paw pads instead. It will be critical that you test regularly when you change Callie's diet to low carb. This will likely have a significant impact on her BG levels.

When you say Callie is getting 4 units, are you saying she gets 2 units twice a day or 4 units twice a day? If it is 4 units twice a day, that is a very high dose of Lantus and, unless there is something else going on with Callie, I'm wondering if we have already passed her ideal dose for regulation. With the change of food, you may want to consider starting over - that is, start at 1 unit twice a day, twelve hours apart. You should maintain that dose (and, of course, hometest) for at least several days to allow the "shed" to form and see where her BG numbers are.

 

Wonderful advice as usual. I am going to test often over the next days while she settles into the wet food. I will keep the carbs under 10 .. much better if possible. I am shopping early tomorrow and I do bet I passed her "good" dose! I'll keep checking all the info posted since this is a very complicated thing. Now that I have the right information and help I am very confident that this will work out! I will get the pens the next time since more people seem to feel it is the better choice. Also I had read about the vasoline. I had a broken arm when this first started and my daughter took over Callie for a couple of weeks. Then I was told I had cancer on the lip (not melanoma,but it had to be removed.. MOHS surgery which went badly and I ended up having a plastic sergery 4 days after that. I had the leftover tube of the neosporin with pain relief and so I used that to put on Callie's ear to get the drop to form as I had read it helps. It was why I was able to get the 4 good tests .. good in that I got enough blood .. bad readings though. I will try the rice sock and the tissue behind the ear. Great and helpful suggestions from everyone! Thanks again! PS will not do anything without researching here first Libby and Callie

 

Good night! You've been through the ringer! I hope you're all better now. Sheesh!

Ask any questions you have and folks can direct you to a link or answer it or give suggestions to try. So many people here have had all kinds of experiences, so when we think we run out of suggestions, someone comes along with another one!

If you decide not to start over at 1u bid, I can't stress enough the need for more testing during each cycle with the food change. We have some unknowns here and the answer to those is getting the numbers. Load your hype tool box with supplies and get the strips to test for ketones.

I can tell you're going to hit this head on and be good at it!!!

 

Hi and welcome.

You have gotten a lot of good advice, especially the critical need to really test frequently now since you are changing to wet food on a pretty high dose of lantus. Starting over at 1u is something to really consider. Too much insulin can also lead to high numbers, with a sudden unpredictable drop too low possible -- and this is extremely dangerous for your cat. If you haven't got your hypo kit together, now's the time. Check out the hypo toolkit tips.

Also take a look at homestesting tips if you haven't seen it yet. Lots of info and videos and pix, especially some nice ear pics of my handsome Danny.



best wishes,
laur

 

Hi again and thanks again!
I do have my kit at the ready at all times! It has a convient pouch that came with the AlphaTrak and I have the whole shbang in it including the lancet pen. It has a clear tip which I will change to so I can see the needle placement better I think. I saw pictures of the "sweet spot" so I have a much better idea on the placement and I will use the flashlight to "flashythingie" her (It's from Men In Black .. lol) Now I have to get the rice sock ready I will start over with the 1 unit tomorrow. I will give her a 1st test THEN give the shot. I will then go after the under 10 wet food. At least 6 choices to start. Yes I am hitting hard and fast on this since I retired, but will have to do part time work, I am going to have to job hunt next week. I want to have some improvement by the end of the weekend, but will have to see. I am having to live from some xtra out of my savings which, with Callie's problems and costs, have dwindled. Still I will manage somehow. At least vet tests will go down. I also had to treat 6 cats .. 3 not mine, for fleas. Also 2 dogs .. also not mine, but within flea sharing distance I got the Advantage plus from the vet for all the animals and $120 later we seem to be flea free AND I will get urine test strips and the ketone ones tomorrow also WOW am on overload!
Thanks .. I did the template BTW and will end with a quickly, but not well done profile and the link to her spreadsheet

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie dx 6/12/10 10 yrs old on 9/17/10
Lantus 4 units BID (U100) 2x daily since 9/23/10
Started with 2 units 2x daily worked up to 4
Improved greatly the water intake and output
Almost back to her normal (same as her brother and sister)
Beginner at home testing BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
1 day got 2 good readings under 150
2nd try about 3 weeks later had 4 readings all above 400
Was on Hill’s prescription diet M/D dry 1/4 cup at feedings 7am & pm,
but I am doing high protein low carb wet starting tomorrow
No ketone reading ever done, but no other health issues
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

Libby, you are doing great, SS up already...good job! You've come to the right place, you will get Callie headed in the right direction very quickly if you follow the good advice you have already gotten. Keep asking questions and reading, there is a wealth of experience here that can help you. Your plan for tomorrow sounds great!

If you haven't already done so, read the stickies at the top of the the Lantus ISG when you have time. There is a lot of important info there and it will really help you understand how the insulin works and help you get Callie regulated as quickly as possible. There tends to be quite a bit of testing when using Lantus, so I would suggest that you consider getting a less expensive meter to use, as the AlphaTrak's strips are pricey. We use the Relion Confirm (from Walmart) as it is among the least expensive options out there, we are very happy with it. The Micro or Ultima are fine also, and there are other options if Walmart is not convenient for you. If you continue to use the AlphaTrak (which is fine if you prefer), I would note that in your signature and on your SS, because the pet meters BG readings are higher than the human ones, and anyone advising you on dosing, hypo treatment, etc needs to know that you are using the AT...it is important. Most people here use human meters.

We all have been in your shoes, it is overwhelming in the beginning....we understand that it's a lot to learn! Keep up the good work...and keep asking questions so we can help you.

 

Thank you Mr. Tinkles! I have read almost all the stickys and even copied them to my NoteTab Light I have so many opened that my tabs (which run along the top) of all the fact sheets has to be scrolled across LOL I'st time that has happened for me, but all info is at the ready. I just posted my toolkit info to the Lantus bb, but will post here in case I missed anything so here it is:

I have the toolkit instructions. I am going to program the directions for the emergency vet (24/7) into my GPS. I have honey on hand (will get karo if it is the best). Also will get high carb wet for the kit when shopping for the low carb tomorrow. I already have the high carb dry that was the choice of my vet, but I have put aside. I'll make sure any given will be just a few pellets since ..as has been noted .. it doesn't work as fast, but will stick around longer and I don't want rebound! My cats don't get treats so will check into that. Their only treats are backrubs for 10 min each and catnip on the scratchy posts. Also plenty of petting throughout the day I have plenty of test strips, but will order or pick up new when 3/4 are gone. One backup meter coming up, but will get a cheaper human kind and have conversion chart ready .. and will test with it in advance to be familiar. Getting urine test strips and ketone strips tomorrow and will add some to kit. My meter kit (inc lancets with pen, test strips, test solution to make sure meter is calibrated correctly and of course the meter itself) are already in a zippered pouch with pockets for xtras. Is this all or am I missing something? Again thanks. My blood pressure has gone down and the crying has stopped since finding this site .. so a big WOO HOO to you all! A very grateful sugar cat owner .. Libby (Callie, Missy and Buddy) make 4 who give thanks!

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie dx 6/12/10 10 yrs old on 9/17/10
Lantus 4 units BID (U100) 2x daily since 9/23/10
Started with 2 units 2x daily worked up to 4
Improved greatly the water intake and output
Almost back to her normal (same as her brother and sister)
Beginner at home testing BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
1 day got 2 good readings under 150
2nd try about 3 weeks later had 4 readings all above 400
Was on Hill’s prescription diet M/D dry 1/4 cup at feedings 7am & pm,
but I am doing high protein low carb wet starting tomorrow
No ketone reading ever done, but no other health issues
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

OK .. It is 7:01 EST and I did pretest at 6:36 and her BG was 465. I then gave her the shot .. which I chickened out and gave her 2 units. It is a half reduction though. I will test again at 7:50. Have to work around housemate since he is borrowing my car, so will have him run me to pharmacy & grocery before going to his school. How I wish this were easier Libby and Callie

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie dx 6/12/10 10 yrs old on 9/17/10
Lantus 4 units BID (U100) since 9/23/10
Started with 2 units bid 06/13/10- worked up to 4 by 9/23
Today 9/30 I did reduction to 2 units
She has improved greatly her water intake and output
Almost back to her normal (same as her brother and sister)
Beginner at home testing BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
1 day test got 2 good readings under 150 about 09/07
2nd try about 3 weeks later 09/28 had 4 readings all above 400
Was on Hill’s prescription diet M/D dry 1/4 cup at feedings 7am & pm,
but I am doing high protein low carb wet starting today
No ketone reading ever done, but getting strips today
no other health issues
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

Sounds like you are doing great so far, and as per usual here getting great advice! So not much to add here, except a Welcome to the FDMB family. I know there is a lot to take in right now and it can seems to be very overwhelming, but it does get easier with time and practice. In fact it will be come as routine as brushing your teeth.

Glad to see that you are junking the dry food, an excellent way to start as well as home testing. When our Muse was dxed we switched all 10 of our kitties to a low carb wet diet and the change in all of them as been remarkable, so not only will Callie benefit from the change so will her brothers and sister. I know it has done wonders for our furry kids, those that were overweight have become slim and sleek, those with rough coats have become soft and silky, and the energy rate of every one including my couple seniors has been off the charts.

If you have any questions please don't hesitate to post them, there is almost always someone around that can either answer them or track down someone that can. This is absolutely the best place you never wanted to be to help your Callie live a long and healthy life.

Mel

 

Hi .. Did not get to test till 9:30, but I got a wide choice of canned foods. Just took another reading at 9:30 with a BG of 368. It's dropping! I also got the Ketostix and diastix for testing too. Thanks to you all. I am sure we are going to see better days soon! Libby and Callie PS I can't seem to be able to edit Callie's spreadsheet this morning. Oh well .. try later .. Libby and Callie

 

Hi Mammaofmuse. My cat's real name is Calliope .. yes I have gotten great advise from the other Calliope! She is named for the daughter of Zeus who was Homer's muse ) Your muse and the other Calliope make me wonder at Divine Intervention ...lol Libby and Callie

 

LOL well my Muse's real name was Freya's Frost Princess, but since she was a very dark Himalayan Frosty didn't seem right which is what she was being called when I first got her. Then she took up the habit of always dragging in my art supplies when she thought I was doing enough so she became my Muse...lol.

Unfortunately she is no longer with us, as she has crossed over to the Bridge, (not due to diabetes). But she is still my Muse, it was because of her passing that I started to drastic changes in my life. At 47 I took the plunge and put myself back into College to become a Veterinary Technician, and I started writting again, something that I had put on the shelf many many years ago.

However, we have several here that have rather mythical names...lol. We have Tre'Vona which is tolkien elven for Sister to Many. And since she has 6 brothers and 3 sisters thought it fit. Then there is the recent addition Myrrdin (Welsh for Merlin) and well Onyx's full name is Midnight's Onyx Voodoo. Although the funniest thing is that after Muse went ahead, I found a kitten that turned out to be her grand-daughter...long story...but learned that Muse had several litters of kittens before coming to us, and her one of her sons is named Zeus and another Adonis, and from Zeus there were 9 females, all named for the 9 muses. So maybe just maybe there is something to the fact that muses are conspiring to help your Calliope..lol

Mel

 

Hi MammaofMuse,
I am very sorry to hear of your loss, but since your Muse is still here in spirit to be your muse I am grateful. I have gotten great advise from you and of course the others! The fact that there is a very "Greek Gods" thing going on here is a bit beyond coincidence for me. My neighbor has a dog named Zeus too. I had told her about Callie's real name and where I had gotten it and we wondered about that. Well I appreciate everyone here to help all those in need and will try myself to contribute when the time comes Thank you so much! Libby and Callie

 

Libby, you may need to log in to Google documents to be able to edit the SS. When you open the SS, look at the upper right hand corner of the window...your user name should be there, or it will say "Log In" if you're not logged in. I hope that helps. When you get to your SS, you need to put the 465 in the AMPS box, and then the 368 should be in the +3 box...it was 3 hours after the shot, correct? I see that you added the AlphaTrak to the top of your SS....good job!

If you go to the directions for setting up the SS, it tells you how to link it to your signature. That would be very helpful so it shows up on all of your posts. You can also copy and paste the other profile info there if you want to, not sure how much room is available.

I hope Callie likes some of the new food! Keep us posted.

 

Hi Libby!! I can't believe your Callie is Calliope! Maybe my Calliope directed me to you! I'll just believe that because it's much more fun than not!

You have come so far in a short period of time! If money is an issue and you'd like to get a different meter with cheaper strips, you could apply for a newbie kit from Lori and Tom. See the stickie above that says "newbie kits". This may ease your financial strains a bit since you're having to change some things you already purchased.

Since we have members here from all over the world, we don't use the times to indicate when we shoot and test. Times can be confusing. We use "+1", for example to indicate that the test was done one hour after shooting/injecting.

Here's an example of how a day might be reported.

AMPS- 365 (AMPS=the morning pre-shot number)
+1-300
+4-280
+6-170
+8-200
+10-230
PMPS-275 (this would be the evening pre-shot numbers)

You probably saw the + numbers on your google spreadsheet and if you're putting those in a post, this is how you would do it, so everyone would understand how long after a shot you tested without havingn to try and add up times.

One very important thing you must exercise when dealing with FD is PATIENCE. You've started a new dose and we need to give it some time to see what how it works, unless there is some other indication that it should be changed sooner than usual. Testing will provide you with the data you need to make determinations or to give out to people here for suggestions if you have a question regarding the numbers you're getting. Testing will help you determine at what point your Callie reaches nadir, usually. That way, if you're faced with a low number before Callie's usually low point in the cycle, you'll be armed with information on when something needs to be handled like whether to give a little gravy to up the numbers, for example. The more data, the better, according to your life schedule.

Wet food usually lasts in the system for about 3 hours, so that will help you when you are looking at your testing results and when to check. If, for example, you would start seeing a drop at +1 and Callie ate a good meal, you would want to test some more because dropping right after the meal might be an indication that she will drop further as the food wears off, so to speak. This is just an example.

Also, if your Callie is a grazer, that's fine. Small meals throughout the day are a good thing. Less stress on the pancreas. Some folks who work also buy a timed feeder, so the feeder provides a little food during the day since they can't be there to test and they want to make sure kitty doesn't go low. Not a requirement and you can look at numbers you are getting. Another cheaper trick that some folks use for snacks during the day is to freeze cubes of the wet foods and put them out before they leave. The kitty can then eat that food when it defrosts.

My Calliope scarfed up food when first diagnosed because she was starving from the FD and the food not being processed, correctly. After the food change and starting the lantus, she returned to her grazing habits and I just left the canned food out all day, changing it out at night. All of my cats are grazers, in fact, so that's the way I do it, now, as well.

If your kitties are fine without treats and you don't need them to help you reward after testing, there's no need to buy them and add that to your expense right now.

Sorry to pile more info on you, but I had these things on my mind and I'm best to get them out before they depart my brain!

I'm anxious to follow yours and Callie's progress. I think you're just doing a terrific job of quickly readjusting and you're obviously a very caring mom to all those furry loved ones!

 

So far, so good! And you are right on top of things, too! :thumbup

One suggestion...I know it's hard to have patience where our kitty's health is concerned, but I would suggest you stick with the 2 units twice a day until at least mid-week. Callie's numbers are headed in the right direction, but it does take some time for the change of diet and change of insulin dose to fully kick in. When I was getting B.K. and Chester regulated (and really wanted to continue increasing the insulin, thinking it would hurry regulation), I had to keep reminding myself what my wonderful vet said to me: "If the choice is between hyper and hypo, take hyper every time." I know it's difficult and every cat is different, but if you look at what other Lantus users are dosing, it would seem likely we're closer to Callie's proper dose at 2 units BID than at 3 or 4 units BID. Also, please consider only increasing Callie's dose by .25 or .5 units from this point forward, and then only after having stuck with one dose for at least several days.

 

Goofed on AMPS it was 465 then after shot it was 368 then dropped to 315. Hope that's not too fast. She did eat the wet food and wanted more. Will give her another bit after the next test so she will associate it as a treat after the stick I am doing every 2 hrs for the tests. Is that ok? I want to watch carefully with the new food and reduction of insulin. Should I go to a check every hour if she drops under 300? I think I am about to get "brain freeze" due to overload of info ..(BG) I am posting my profile and link to Callies ss. Thanks again .. Libby and Callie

New spreadsheet for Callie:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
No ketone reading ever done, but now have test strips
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

Good job, Callie...and Libby, too! The numbers are definately headed in the right direction! You do not have to test more frequently (unless you want to) when Callie's BG drops under 300, as that is still a diabetic number. Since we don't know Callie's nadir (the lowest point in the 12-hour curve), I'd start testing more frequently at 100 - especially if her BG drops that low in the "early" part of the 12-hour curve - just to be certain Callie isn't headed for a hypo. Given the impact of just one day of the lower dose and new diet, I would absolutely wait until at least mid-week next week before even considering increasing her Lantus.

 

9/30 Callie Amps 465 +1 368 +3 315
Thanks gingerand((calliope))!
I am not believing this either. Must be the muse at work. I copied all your reply and will adjust my thinking ..lol I think the light is dawning I understand the +'s. I was quite confused, but thought that question could come later since I will be on top my Callie's situation. Thanks for saving me from asking I do hope you will keep up with us. I am nervous about the diet change, but know I have a safety line! Thanks again to all who have helped! Libby and Callie

New spreadsheet for Callie:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
No ketone reading ever done but now have test strips
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

It's fine to test every 2 hours, I wouldn't think you need to test more often unless she gets below 100. If that happens, please post here or on LL and someone will help you, ok? You're doing great! It will get easier, I promise!

I see Jana already posted the same advice... :lol: ;-)

 

It is sometimes hard to believe how much impact diet and a lower dose can have...Callie has droped +100 from yesterday's high already! Good job!

 

Great minds... :lol: :lol:

 

You are well prepared for the diet change. As mentioned above, you have a new dose and a new diet and new numbers, already! It could take some time to see the full affect of the changes and whether the dose needs to go up or down, so patience is a virtue. I'm optimistic with those numbers you got today. Still very diabetic, but certainly an improvement. Headed in the right direction. No need to panic, though. The beauty is that you are much more in control of things, now, with more testing and the food change and the new dose. Now, you have the opportunity to truly look for the right dose for Callie. On top of that, with doing your own testing and curves, Callie doesn't need to go to the vet's office for that saving her the stress and you the money!

Most of the time, when vets see the google sheets and the testing being done and notes on the feeding etc..., they are duly impressed and they know you're doing all you can to take care of your kitty. I know my vet was shocked when I faxed her my first week of test results, after the food change and sticking with 1u rather than the food she told me to feed and the dose she told me to give. We'd sort of batted heads. On Calliope's last day, which was a Saturday, I had to take her from my vet's office to the ER vet for further testing and monitoring. When the ER vet called me to tell me the bad news of what had to happen, he told me that my vet called to check on Calliope and that she also told him that I'd been a very attentive mom and that I'd gotten her into remission and kept darn good records of everything. She warned him that I would be highly upset because she knew how much I loved that kitty. Warmed my heart that she took notice of it, especially after we'd disagreed quite a few times. Calliope was fractious in the sense that my vet had a very hard time dealing with her and she really never thought I could give Calliope a shot much less test her. She recommended that I let her go because she was afraid she'd have the dreaded hyper and she didn't want me to see that happen. She was in disbelief when she knew I not only shot, but got the testing done. Anyway, many vets come around and if they don't, then there are others out there...

Have a great day today. It's certainly starting out well.

 

9/30 Callie Amps 465 +1 368 +3 315 +5 349

Gad .. she is going up again. Well now it isn't dropping too fast She did eat and so I'm guessing that would have driven BG up some. Testing again in 2 hrs as suggested ..thanks. You can post the same messages if you want. I need to have multiple thoughts a lot to help remember all this new info )I won't doing hourly unless she gets to 100. I am too tense to do my profile till I am sure she is ok At least you have me prepared and I have honey and her dry food to catch her before BG gets too low. I have my instructions and I'm treading with care. Thanks Libby and Callie

New spreadsheet for Callie:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
No ketone reading ever done but now have test strips
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

Not to worry...this is a marathon, not a sprint. Callie's numbers will go up and down while we're on the search for the appropriate dose and a nice 12-hour curve. Hang in there!

 

9/30 Callie Amps 465 +1 368 +3 315 +5 349
Thanks again!
I think my vet will work with me on this too. I am very glad yours came around. It would be hard on us both to change now I too am glad of the stress relief on her. She would also have to endure her siblings hissing at her when she came home. Probably vet smells. It would take as much as 2 days to get them back to a decent arrangement! She seems to have no stress at all during this, while I am all too stressed ..lol I am more certain than ever that this is the way to go! I will keep her at the same dose for 4 to 5 days? If the stats drop will you let me know when to raise or lower the dose? I am glued to the site and soaking as much in as possible. I do look forward to any decent stability in her BG. Wow I think we have taken up way too much of everyone's time but we certainly are grateful!
Libby and Callie

New spreadsheet for Callie:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
No ketone reading ever done but now have test strips
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

You need to sit back and breathe. The only thing of real concern in the immediate is to test for ketones. Otherwise, your numbers are safe right now, so take a break for a little bit. Have to take care of yourself so you can take care of the kitties!

You're not taking up too much of anyone's time. We've all been new and we all had a gazillion questions. My initial threads were VERY long. You're are far ahead of where I was when I arrived here.

You keep posting your numbers into your google ss and when you want someone to take a look or have a question about anything, ask away. We know that reading all the info at once takes some time to get into the mind. That's why asking questions is sometimes so important.

I see you mentioned the honey and dry food. Did you get the high carb food with gravy as well? It's really one of the best things to have on hand. Eventually, you may want to have a few cans of "medium' carb food on hand. Sometimes, the numbers can get sort of in between and a teaspoon of med carb food does the trick. Note that if you do have to feed high or medium carb food, you don't want to fill the kitty up if your low numbers are early in the cycle as you may need to keep feeding the entire cycle. We don't want kitty to get too full at once when more food might be needed. Unless the kitty is dropping WAY low, it usually doesn't take much at a time to get the numbers up to a safe place. Lots of testing is done in these situations and that tells you what you need to do. Hopefully, you won't have this issue, but just in case, I wanted to point that out.

Now, sit down, take some deep breaths, pat yourself on the back and know that you are becoming armed with knowledge and tools to help Callie feel as good as she can feel.

 

We'll keep an eye on the BG numbers, but at least several more days at this dose and we'll see where to go after that. We have a saying around here: "Start low and go slow."

You aren't taking up too much time; in fact, you are way ahead of where most of us were when our kitty's were first diagnosed. Just keep posting here as to what is going on, and Callie will be regulated before you know it!

 

9/30 Callie Amps 465 +1 368 +3 315 +5 349
You are right. I did forget! I was trying to just grab some good stuff to start her out, but also had to get the test strips. My housemate/landlord needed the car for school and since I was going to be testing all day anyway I had told him he could. Didn't realize I was going to have to run for it to get the new wet food started ..lol I will get some high and med carb tonight! She seems in no danger now and I did stop for a good breather In fact I am going to do some restful meditations and deep breathing before the next test. She is as peaceful as can be. She has eaten 2 types of food now so I am sure she will be happy wet! She has spread out over both floor scratchy posts and is loosey goosey napping there ..lol I will post all my tests like I was shown and be patient. Boy you were NOT kidding about that! PS the siblings are napping as well. Bet they want to keep me up tonight Thanks again! Libby and Callie

 

I'm glad you are ALL peacefully resting for a bit. Good day today!

Your signature and google docs disappeared, though, so AFTER you rest a bit, you could look into that. Otherwise, folks are going to be repeatedly asking when Callie was diagnosed, the insulin, the dose, the food, the testing etc... and you're going to be worn out answering over and over again!

 

9/30 Callie Amps 465 +1 368 +3 315 +5 349 +7 347
I think I have the SS working now and will post in the signature section We have stayed out of the 400's after the AMPS so YEA! She has readily taken to the wet .. siblings no .. but they can have the dry light with a dab of wet till they are used to it Want them all healthy! All is peaceful and Callie has had no problems with the sticks today thanks to you. I did all the techniques and it was perfect! I have read every sticky now and even copied most to my hard drive. I am going to be peaceful for a couple of hours myself. I am pooped I'lll check again for the +9 then if good can I wait till the PMPS test? While all snuggle bunnys are sleeping I am going to set my clock and nap too ..lol. Thank you guys TTYL Libby and Callie

Callie's SS
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0

Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
No ketone reading ever done but now have test strips
And oh yes .. when should I test for keytones?
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

Yep, do you +9, then the next will be the PMPS.

Sounds like Callie is feeling good, even though we want her BG numbers lower. That is a very good sign, and it sure makes it easier on the two-legged people when our four-legged people aren't in distress.

Enjoy your nap...both you and Callie had a very good day!

 

Sounds like a plan!!! Have a good rest!

 

10/1/10 Callie AMPS 468
Good morning everyone. I am wondering if I should start a new topic today? Is this something we do to keep from having a long scrolling :roll: ? I am going into my second day on the wet only diet for Callie. Her food seems to be all 7 carb When I ran and grabbed yesterday I didn't get the best range of carbs .. will have to print the list out and shop this afternoon. Her number for yesterdays AMPS was also high so I am not as worried today. I know .. patience .. :lol: I'll check back and see opinions. You have a wonderful day! ... Libby and Callie

Callie's SS
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0
Yesterday viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26290
Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Now feeding only wet foods
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

I would start a new topic. Provide a link to to the old topic and say go there if you want background. You a doing a great job.

 

I agree with Larry. Start a new thread and copy the link to this one to put in the new thread, so folks can read the background if they wish.

Don't forget to check for ketones right now. It's a good safe thing to do.

Yep, patience is still a virtue!!

 

Usually the lite or weight mgmt foods are higher in carbs than regular dry. Especialy the Science Diet.

I know how hard it is when your cat is use to dry and wont eat anything else. (like my cat)

I have my cat on EVO DRY TURKEY AND CHICKEN Low Carb food right now. Its grain free. Has 7% carbs.
The weight mgmt has 13% carbs.

It is expensive and can only be bought at specialty natural pet food stores. I pay approx $43 per 15.4 lb bag
The web site has a look up for locations to buy it.
http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?panel=ga&id=1500

I plan to eventually introduce her to canned food, but for now this is what I use.

As everyone advises here, canned low carb is the best to give to cats - and much cheaper.

 

10/1/10 Callie AMPS 468 +3 351
Thanks Larry .. you do have a brood don't you All those kitties are diabetic? Wow .. Patience of Job! Hey Ginger I didn't catch her on time twice today. I am going to try for the next pee (BG). Also thanks to Ginger,s mommy. I didn't even know they made dry so low carb. Everything I checked out was in the 30's and that was at Petco and Petsmart. I may have to get some for the siblings, but Callie seems to know what's GOOD for her and hasn't turned down any of the 3 different canned foods I have given her. The other 2 did like one and I'll get extra of that. Want all of them healthy! If I can just keep the siblings to 1/2 wet and 1/2 dry for now that's a start. I'll finish Science Diet, but will check out EVO DRY TURKEY AND CHICKEN Low Carb if I can't get full cooperation on the all wet! I'll start a new topic and link this one. Thanks for the input! Libby and Callie ..plus siblings (brother Buddy & sister Missy)

Callie's SS
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... TuVA#gid=0
Yesterday viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26290
Callie 10 yrs old on 9/17/10 dx 6/12/10
Lantus 2 units BID (U100) since 9/30/10
HT BG with AlphaTrak & Lancet device
Wet food only since 9/30/10
Camp Hill, PA USA

 

You really want to eliminate all dry food if at all possible. Dry food is not good for ANY cat, there is more involved than just the carb content. Please read the info at the following link. http://catinfo.org/

I know it can be difficult to eliminate dry food, many people here call it kitty krack! ;-) I have one civvie who is a somewhat picky eater, and I'm still working on transitioning her completely from the dry food. But it really is the best way to go to completely eliminate it....even the low carb dry.