Newcomer needs help

Okay, so my male cat (Pixie) of about 8 years old got diagnosed with DM on Tuesday of last week. He weighs 13.8 lbs. He was hospitalized until Saturday. He's been prescribed 3-4 units of ProZinc insulin and Purina DM catfood (which after beginning to educate myself I chose to go with canned food, they WERE feeding him DM dry food during the hospitalization). I am actually thinking of switching all 5 of our cats to canned food due to some things I've been reading but anyway... the insulin is insanely pricey ($120) and I have access to FREE Lantus & Levemir right now so I may take them. My question is this: if he's getting 3.5 to 4 units of ProZinc, how do I know how much to give him of Lantus & Levemir? The same amount or back it off a hair?

Also, I've been using Walmart's Relion Micro glucometer and using a lancet to poke his ear along the vein to test his blood sugar levels. I test him each day prior to feeding, I feed him his 1/2 can of Purina DM food, and then give him his insulin. What worries me is the huge range of results I'm getting from testing him. Once in the morning and once at night is how often he gets tested and here are the results I've gotten since Saturday night in order: (87 at 8:15PM, 120 at 8:50 AM, 49 at 9:30 PM, 60 and 9:30 AM, 228 at 9:30 PM, 164 at 9:45 AM). Why such a huge range from 49 to 228? I backed off the insulin dose from 4 units to 3.5 for about a day when I noticed his readings were low, but today I took my glucometer to the vets so that we could compare results and I got 29 (!!??) and the nurse got 62 from her machine. Is the Relion Micro not accurate for some reason? Because the vet ordered me a machine specifically designed for cats and he said it was going to cost a little more than $100 and the strips run about $2 / each and it should be in by Friday. I don't think I can afford it (I've already dumped $550 into the vet in the past couple weeks for hospitalization and tests and such). All of this is just way too expensive. I need alternatives but I want my cat to live a healthy, happy life too.

Also, I've been reading how switching to low carb canned diet (he was on dryfood diet prior to his diagnosis) sometimes will fix things to a point where giving the regular dose of insulin can be harmful to the cat if the dose isn't immediately backed off. But I don't even know if my reading for blood sugar is right or not because the vet came up with twice my number during the test today at the same time (29 vs. 62!!)??? His machine is supposed to be specifically for animals so I'd say it should be accurate but everyone all over the internet says Relion Micro is accurate for cats also... so what do I do? Any help at all would be appreciated because I am about to the point where I don't know what to do at all! I thought I was prepared and had things under control until I found out that my glucometer is not reading the same thing as the vets'.

Thanks in advance for the help!

-Mike (Pixie's daddy)

 

P.S.
I've been using alcohol pads to sanitize needles to re-use them 2 or 3 times, and sometimes sanitizing the ear with it prior to testing. Is that a bad thing to do i.e. does the alcohol mess with the results? That still wouldn't explain why me and my vet came up with such radically different numbers though...

 

Mike

Please, stop giving insulin! Or at least that insanely high dose! Yikes!

Those numbers you are getting are non diabetic. How was Pixie diagnosed in the first place? And why did your vet start with such a high dose?

Honestly, a cat should be started at 1 unit twice a day, 2 absolute max. That you are hometesting this early on is fabulous because you could have saved Pixie's life.

Now, regarding those numbers...meters are allowed a standard error of +/- 20%. So if you do the math, they are likely pretty darn close within the margin of error. The Relion is a very acceptable meter so I'd continue with it.

regarding insulin, lantus is a very good insulin and personally, I'd choose it over the new prozinc but it does take some work.

Jen

ps are you using needles to poke the ears? Lancets and lancet devices are MUCH easier. You can reuse them (needles or lancets) a few times for poking but never reuse needles for injection.

 

I'd have it no other way than to be testing him at home. He is my baby boy and I want to be a very active part in making sure he is in good health (as good as can be expected anyway with his condition). He was diagnosed on Tuesday while he was at the vets for dental work. I had noticed a significant increase in water intake and he was urinating a lot (large clumps in the litterbox much larger than the other cats' and it was also rather sticky..) so I requested the blood test to see if he had diabetes. My vet kept him from Tuesday through Saturday and was trying to regulate his blood sugar level so I assume that's where he came up with 3 units of ProZinc (he actually increased it to 4 on Saturday when I brought Pixie home so I was the first one to start trying the increased dose of 4 units). It's been pretty scary since then because of the huge range of results I've been getting with my Relion tester. He has had a RADICAL diet change (from store-bought dryfood only to Purina DM canned food only). From what I've read sometimes that by itself is enough to regulate a diabetic cat into remission.. correct? So could my glucometer be correct afterall? Even the 29 reading today (when the nurse read 62)? Should I not be administering any insulin at all if he is between 70 and 150? I am beginning to question how knowledgeable my veterinarian is on the topic of feline diabetes... any more feedback & help would be greatly appreciated!

-M

P.S.
Yeah, I'm using lancets for the ears. It seems so much more polite than slightly cutting into the quick which is what they were doing to him at the vets :sad: .
Why can't the syringes be re-used a time or two since they aren't being shared? I wipe it with an alcohol pad each time and the vet said this was acceptable. I didn't think there was a problem as long as they are discarded before they begin to dull. Is there something I'm not aware of?

 

Your vet cut his toenails to get blood? Seriously? I had hoped that this barbaric practise was a thing of the past!

Question - can you get another vet?

The symptoms sound like diabetes, but should be diagnosed through a fructosamine blood test. A cat is never regulated at the clinic over a few days; regulation can take months. And yes, diet change can have a dramtic effect in combination with insulin as the insulin gives the pancreas a chance to heal.

My suggestion? Do not give insulin unless you get 200 prior to shot (called a preshot test) and only give 1 unit max for now until things settle down and you get an idea of what is going on. As you gather more data you can determine what dose is appropriate and what your cutoff should be....

Thoughts?

 

Syringes have a coating on them to keep them smooth; this coating is depleted with each shot and the needle can become very uncomfortable very quickly.

 

I was told his initial glucose reading at the time of his diagnosis was 486. The entire time he was at the vets (Tuesday through Saturday) they only had him below 200 twice (and that was checking him twice a day prior to feeding/insulin time). I guess this is why they tried to immediately get him regulated because I guess 486 is a dangerous number? I've only read him above 200 once since I've had him home though... so yeah it's pretty confusing right now. Thanks for the feedback, this is really making me question some things as my primary concern is just for the health of my cat. He's been my closest companion for 8 years now (I love my cats equally but Pixie is the one that has always slept with me and been the most affectionate). I do not want to lose him for any reason including negligence. After much study I am convinced feline diabetes is VERY manageable and with my dedication I am certain I can handle it with the help of my girlfriend. I just don't want to do anything to harm him because of getting poor instructions from my vet! And at the same time I don't want to jump and do something drastic because of something I read on the internet either. I guess I'm just doing my best to study up as much as I can.

This is me and my Pixie puff: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ ... npixie.jpg

Thanks again for the help!

-M

 

I must leave for work but will check back here later. Thank you so much for your help! Others, feel free to chime in with your opinions! Every piece of information helps me become a more informed pet guardian (don't like the word "owner" because I don't own my pet, it's more of a relationship of equality!). My goal is to be able to take care of him to the best of my ability!

-=][V][=-

 

hi Mike and welcome to the group.

First off, changing to a low carb diet CAN signficantly change the BG's levels and decrease the amount of insulin needed.

Definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and return the prescription food. ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


DO NOT REUSE THE LANCETS OR SYRINGES these things are cheap enough that there honestly is no need to reuse them. If you are poking several times with a lancet, fine, use it for that test then toss it out.

Even though you may not be able to see it, the tips of these things get dull very quickly and make it painful to use.

I don't know about prozinc, but if you switch to lantus or levemir, NEVER put a used syringe back into the vial or pen.

I don't have pics of these, but I know they are floating around somewhere, I will see if I cn find them to show you.

And the reason you don't want to reuse the syringe, is you don't want to contaminate the insulin. Lantus is a VERY FRAGILE insulin and even using alcohol to clean the syringe, the alcohol can damage the insulin. It's just not worth it.

These things are cheap enough, that one test, one shot and toss.

Yes, testing the ears is the normal place to test. It's typically ears or paw pads. I never heard of testing the quick (And man that must be very painful).

Here is a pic of where to test along the ear:



The relion is a good meter and the readings you are getting a 29 are dangerous numbers - meaning the cat is in hypoglycemic shock. Cat is getting too much insulin.

So, the dose of 4 units is WAY too high.

Here read this about hypo shock:

How to treat hypos!

Hypo Tool Kit

I suggest that you continue testing to see where the numbers go and if you must give insulin - give 1/2 to 1 unit maximum!

When you change insulins, start at the same dose 1/2 to 1 unit only. Also come over to the lantus forum, where you can read up on the handling and use of lantus and the protocols.

 

i just want to say i agree 100% with everything Jen has said.

the only thing i want to directly address is the 49 to 228 question. did you shoot insulin the next morning on that 60? if so, there is the reason you got the 228. 60 is a very very normal non-diabetic number and if you shot insulin, more than likely a few hours later he was scary low and his body kicked out everything it had to protect itself, thus the higher number. although, to be honest, i'm surprised you didn't get a much higher number than that 228.

personally i'd consider doing some testing without insulin to see what kind of numbers you get. it's possible with the diet change that your cat will be a diet controlled diabetic very easily.

 

486 is a very high number and if a cat stays at those numbers it can cause kidney and other damage, which is probably why the vet attempted to lower him. HOWEVER, it's better for your cat to stay a little longer in higher numbers than to drop so low he goes into hypo shock.

The goal of diabetes for human or animal is to regulate the BG's with diet and insulin. This takes time and isn't done overnight, nor at the vets office.

You are correct this is manageable and from the sounds of it, you may have a cat that will be a diet controlled diabetic in short order. But let's get her there safely and following known protocols.

So, now that you found us, we know what we are talking about and doing, so please listen to our advice, do your own research and come to your own conclusions, but I guarantee you won't go wrong with us.

I owe Maui's life to this board and her ongoing care to remission to the lantus board.

 

The problem with using a simple blood glucose test for diagnosis is that vet stress MAY bump up those numbers by quite a bit, as stress hormones can inflate blood glucose levels. So a fructosamine test is better; it is 'like' an average of blood glucose levels for the past 2 weeks, thereby cancelling out any chance of vet stress skewing results.

So your cat may well be diabetic, but definitely does not need the high dose that he's been prescribed. Since you have such a great handle on things already, I'm certain you'll figure things out pretty quick. Stick with the low dose as I suggested and gather data through testing and you should be able to teach your vet a thing or two!

Jen

 

Stress can cause high blood sugar numbers -- so a stressed out cat at the vet ends up with an incorrect dose that is too high.

That is why it is so important to test at home in the normal relaxed environment.

Since your kitty was just diagnosed last week -- start over with lantus or levemir at 1 unit BID, but ONLY if blood sugar is over 200.

If you have changed diet to low carb canned food and when you test, all blood sugar numbers are below 200 -- congrats!!! you have a diet controlled kitty that does not need insulin.

The tiny needles dull very quickly -- http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Syringe
this has pictures of the needle comparing NEW, Used Once, Used Twice and Used Six times.

These syringes are great and cost about $0.17 each.
http://hocks.com/hocks-healthcare/hocks ... 40030.html

 

This is all very helpful information, thank you all! It means a lot to me that there is a support group to help me through this very difficult time as it has been indescribably heart-wrenching for me.

Unfortunately my nurse friend was not able to get any Lantus but I now have two free backup U-100 10ml bottles of Levemir (that are good until 05/2012). Here's the thing though: the ProZinc my vet has him on is only U-40 (40 units per ml). Could this be why 3-4 units sounds high to all of you guys who are used to insulin that is 100 units per ml? Should I up his dose back to a few units if I get a high blood sugar reading? (I skipped his dose tonight because he only read about 100). The syringes I've been using say "For use with U-40 insulin" so when I run out of that and switch to the Levemir, does that mean I need different syringes since the Levemir is U-100? If so, how will that affect dosing? I need to use less Levemir? Or more? Or does the syringe take care of that difference and the units are all still the same?

Sorry for all the questions... I'm just trying to learn this as I go along.

I've pretty much decided to take over the decision-making about his treatment myself as my vet does not seem very open-minded (I asked him about a few things and I felt like he dismissed them entirely dead set that his way was the only way Pixie needed to be treated). I do understand him being a doctor and all and he usually has to deal with idiots who cannot think for themselves, but I feel like I'm learning a whole lot more about this and I think I need to try to figure out what works best for him myself.

I did find it a rather cruel way to test his blood by cutting into a different nail each time they tested him. They were testing him twice a day so they had to be running out of nails and that was making him sore every time he took a step I am sure. He is taking to the ear testing quite a bit better I think, and now that I'm going to start using a fresh lancet every single time, I think I'm going to have much better results (and he loves his Lean Treats pink bag as a reward for blood-sugar test time!). Do I need to be prepping his ear with an alcohol pad prior to pricking & testing or no? Will that mess with the results at all if alcohol is not completely dry?

Thanks again in advance for all the help!

-Mike (Pixie's daddy)

 

Mike,

There is no need to use alcohol before testing. After poking, if his ear is getting sore, just hold it for a few seconds to minimize bruising. You can also use neosporin with pain relief (or without) after the testing.

It sounds like you are getting the hang of this whole thing.

 

If you're using U-40 insulin with U-40 syringes, then what you're calling a unit and what we're calling a unit are the same. If you change to a U-100 insulin, yes, you will need different syringes (but I understand that U-100 syringes, which you can get at a pharmacy, are far less expensive than U-40 syringes, which you have to get from the vet). If you change to a U-100 insulin and use U-100 syringes, then the syringes will take care of the difference. Just be aware that the dose you will probably end up giving will be an extremely small amount of liquid, and that's correct.

As for the alcohol, no need at all to use it on his ear before a test. It doesn't do any good, and it may indeed skew the results if it isn't completely dry. No need to use it before a shot, either.

About those differing results, a cat-calibrated meter and a human-calibrated meter may give different numbers, but each one will be consistent with itself. The reason for the difference has to do with differences in blood-cell size and how glucose is carried in the blood - I definitely don't remember all the details, but upshot is that the two types of meters certainly may give different results.

That doesn't mean you need a cat meter to test your cat. The suggestions given on this site and on most places on the internet are based on the numbers you would get with cat blood tested on a human meter. What you really are testing to know is whether numbers are in "normal" or "diabetic" ranges, and whether they are rising or falling. You can answer those questions with any good meter.

 

I should use alcohol to clean the wound after the blood test then? Or Neosporin? Or just apply pressure for a few seconds and call it done with?

So then what are normal ranges for a cat tested on a human meter? The only "normal" range I have been informed of is a 70-150 range that my vet told me about (which I am sure he was referring to results on a meter calibrated for animals). All of this is starting to make a whole lot more sense now, thanks so much to everyone who is continually helping me learn this!

-M

P.S.
My vet taught me to inject in his flank using the tent method of pulling on the skin, is that the best method?

P.S.S.
So I'm looking at the canned food nutritional chart here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html , and whereas it's a little confusing, I'm basically looking for the carbs to be below 10, and a high protein value, right? And this will be just as safe managing his blood sugar as the Purina DM canned food that my vet has him on?

 

You may use Neosporin, or just apply a little pressure to the prick-spot and call it good. I wouldn't use alcohol at all.

Yes, 70-150 sounds like a "normal" range for a meter calibrated for animals. For cats tested with human meters it is more like 40 or 50 to 120. (Nondiabetic cats often test in the 40s, occasionally even lower. But you don't normally want a diabetic cat to go quite that low on insulin, because there is no cushion before you hit dangerous numbers. 50 or even 60 is a safe lowest-ever number, to speak in great generalities.)

Once you have more experience with all this, you will learn what numbers your cat usually runs. Individual cats differ. My transient-diabetic cat (a female) usually tests in the 50s or maybe 60s but occasionally is in the 40s. My nondiabetic runs a slightly higher "normal" - for him, low 70s or high 60s is perfectly fine. (When the vet runs labs on him, his glucose number usually comes out in the 90s.) I have read that males tend to have higher normal glucose than females, which is what I see in my kitties, but I'm sure it is not universally true.

 

So I should give insulin if the human meter reads him over 120? Or like others said, only administer the insulin if it reads 200+?

 

For now, no shot if under 200. Later, after you learn more about how your cat reacts to insulin and food, you may want to change the "no shoot" number to something lower.

 

Well, I have great news. It has been 4 hours since his "usual" dosage time (this is the first dose I skipped due to a normal reading of 107 on a human meter), and his blood sugar is still only 138 which is pretty much acceptable! (He was also fed 4 hours ago at his normal dosage time). I will still be keeping a very close eye on him, but doesn't this pretty much mean he may be able to be regulated with nearly diet alone? Should I stick with the Purina DM since he seems to be doing so well on it? Or can someone recommend food that one can buy at Walmart or a pharmacy or maybe even a pet store that is about the same as Purina DM just without the $35 for 24 cans price tag?

Thanks so much, everyone! I'm feeling much more confident that I can care for my cat without going broke (and doing more harm than good over-dosing insulin in the process)!!

-M

P.S.
Here's another little treat: his secret hide-out!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ ... ndrier.jpg

 

When my cat was diagnosed with diabetes, they told me to feed them DM, but I did research and found its still too high in carbs. I started getting Wellness wet food - Turkey or Chicken. I buy them in the 12.5 oz can because it is more economical. They are just over $2 a can but they are more than 2 of the tuna size cans. I believe these are under 5% carbs and they are human grade - no biproducts and grain free. They are sold at specialty pet stores. Petco sells the brand but I have not been able to find the large cans in the store and shipping is too expensive online. I have several cats so I also get dry for free feeding, but I get Innova Evo Cat and Kitten Formula. Its Chicken or Turkey - I can't remember, but its in a purple bag and its only 8% carbs. My cat went into remission for months, but then it flared back up. He is 17 and has thyroid issues too and they said that may have something to do with it.

Also, I was having problems with his numbers, and I still am, so I keep Fancy Feast Grilled (with gravy) on hand in case his numbers get too low. It works like magic to bring him up to where he needs to be.

 

With the numbers you're getting with no insulin a diet change to something that fits in your budget better than the DM may be enough to keep him off insulin. I recommend the Wellness brand foods, although yes, they aren't cheap either, but the 12.5 oz cans are more economical, especially if you have only 1 cat.

As for BG ear testing, please see this picture: http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/chupie_2006/testingear/sweetspot.jpg
You do not need to use alcohol, which might sting, nor Neosporin after testing. Simply wet your finger, put pressure on the spot and dry it with a tissue or cotton ball by pressing a little longer. Usually takes only a few seconds to stop bleeding and putting pressure also prevents bruising. I have tested Gandalf's ears for over 5 years now and you could never ever tell.

If you try the diet change and numbers continue to rise, you're welcome to post in the Levemir ISG for help giving very small doses, which is all Pixie might need to help out his pancreas. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=10

 

Woo woo!

It may take a bit of time for those numbers to permanently stay down; by this I meant that they may creep up to 200 and require a very small dose to go back down again, but eventually he may not need any insulin.

When looking at food, there are a few criteria to keep in mind; quality of ingredients (i.e. chicken vs chicken biproducts), fillers like wheat/corn/rice/soy, percentage of calories from carbs ( aim for 3-10%), fat, etc. I cannot remember the ideal ratio for this. Wellness has high quality ingredients but may be a bit high in fat. Fancy feast, friskies and other grocery store brands may be an acceptable alternative. There are also quality commercially prepared raw food diets. DM doesn't contain quality ingredients, it just meets the low carb standard...

Hope this helps

Jen

 

I think I'm going to look into finding the Wellness brand cat food (there are a couple pet stores in town). 12.5 oz cans? I have 5 cats, I wonder if I would feed the entire can to all 5 of them in one sitting. If not, I guess I just cover the can, refrigerate it, and serve the remainder next time? They don't mind it being cold I guess?

I'm about to test Pixie and see where he's at this morning after skipping last night's insulin. Will post results soon!

-M

 

Most cats prefer their food room temperature.

Best to transfer leftovers to a glass container rather than store it in the can.
It takes on a metallic taste once exposed to air.

You might not have left-overs with 5 cats. Certainly OK to feed all cats Wellness.

A diabetic-friendly diet is good for most cats (unless other health conditions dictate
otherwise).

 

The large wellness cans are economical and very convenient; but don't buy too many until you know whether the cats will eat it or not! Some cats love it, others don't....

 

Well, he came up with 270 this morning. So when I fed him his half can of Purina DM I gave him one unit of the U40 ProZinc insulin injected into his left flank. It does seem like not very much liquid at all. Hopefully it works out for him. I'll test his numbers again in a couple hours after his food and insulin have had time to settle.

And are you suggesting cover the food and continue to store it room-temperature? Will it keep for 12 hours that way?

 

He is on Antirobe Aquadrops also for the infection that was found in his mouth due to a broken tooth. As I said, he was originally only at the vets for dental work. Don't know if being on antibiotics is making any difference here..

 

I too have 5 cats and feed them all canned foods. I have some that eat higher carb food so I feed them on a counter where fat boy can't get Over the course of the day I feed my crew between 24-30 ozs of canned foods. I'd be tickled if they'd all eat the same stuff so I could feed 12.5 oz cans of something but I have a finicky bunch so I feed 'em Fancy Feast for the most part with Friskies and 9Lives when I can get them to eat it. If your bunch will eat Friskies or 9lives you can feed 'em all canned pretty inexpensively. You can get the big multi-pack boxes that come with 24 cans (5 oz size I think) really cheap, especially if you have a Sam's or Costco card. Coupons will help a lot too. Combine them with sales whenever you can. My local store had Friskies 10/$4 recently and I had some coupons too so I got a bunch of food really cheap. You can also buy coupons on Ebay (I never knew that before someone on here said it) and have your friends/family save them from the paper or the mail etc. I put out a call on my facebook page for friends to mail me cat food coupons that they won't be using too.

 

Injecting in the flank is good. I always injected Smokey in the flank, as recommended by
his vet.

One unit of U-40 is less than 1/4 inch of liquid drawn into the syringe.

You can refrigerate left-overs, but take it out of the refrig to warm to room temp
about an hour before serving. Best to transfer left-overs to a glass bowl rather than
leave them in the can (I don't always follow my own advice !).

Or just put the cold food on a plate and micro-wave it for a very few seconds (3-5 seconds), stir
and maybe micro-wave again for 3-5 seconds, until it feels body-temp to your finger.

You stir it so there are no hot-spots from microwaving. The amount of time depends upon
how much food, and the wattage of your micro-wave oven.

If I open a can in the morning, I do let it sit at room temp for up to 8 hours and don't worry about it
at all. I leave it in the can and cover it with either plastic wrap or an over-turned bowl. Mainly to keep
the cats out of it...also to keep it from drying out.

You can even leave canned food down for the cats to munch on if they are free-feeders.
Just be sure your diabetic kitty gets his share.

 

My canned food is at room temp because I feed the small fancy feast type cans; but you need to refrigerate large opened cans so I'm not sure whether your cats will care about temp or not.

270 is a shoot number, and while 1 unit looks small it can make a big difference so don't disrespect it

Did he get the tooth removed? How long ago and has it been rechecked? The infection may have been part of the cause of the higher numbers, and if it is now taken care of that may explain the lower numbers.

 

I have the air-conditioning on all day -- temperature stays below 75 F.

So -- I leave canned food out all day and night.

With 5 cats, I feed 2x 12.5oz cans of Wellness per day and sometimes add a 5oz can of BFF (Best Feline Friend) or low carb Friskies at bed time.

 

unused food, cover and store in fridge. If they won't eat it cold from the fridge, you can warm it for a few secs in the microwave or let it sit out about 30 minutes prior to serving.

I just give my girls the food straight from fridge and they don't seem to care. I also add to the food for several reasons:

- ensures they get enough water in their systems
- keeps their kidneys working nicely
- moistens the food more and keeps it from drying out

You may want to do same. I add about 1/2 can (5 ounces) to each bowl of food. It's a lot of water, but we have kidney issues that make it necessary. If you do this, don't be surprised if you find lots more pee balls in the LB! Or if they stop drinking the fresh - it just means they are getting enough water they don't need to drink.

Shooting insulin in the flank area is the best location. Some people shoot in other locations, but flank is best for insulin.

No need to use alcohol. Do use neosporin on ears after poking, it's another way to help get him used to you playing with the ears.

270 is a number that needs insulin. What I suggest, given the swings he's had, is that you regardless of the insulin or syringe - you shoot no more than 1 unit.

You can also increase the dose as needed, but you can't remove the dose once injected. So, let's start this whole process over with 1 unit on either prozinc or levimer and go from there. Hope that makes sense.

Oh and where are you located? I don't see that on your information.

 

I have 10 cats and depending on the day, they usually don't go through a whole can believe it or not. I give them all the one can in the morning. Now I will put that back in the fridge (in a plastic container) and microwave it for a few seconds and put it back out later.

Mine are all in and out cats. We have a farm behind us so some of them stay out there for long periods of time and the food has been going much slower since Spring broke!

When it was cold out and they were in more, I would sometimes have to open a second can. Then they have the Innova Evo to eat whenever they want.

Most of them lost weight since I switched them and look much healthier. I am hoping to avoid diabetes with them all now, as well as other health issues that come from a high carb diet. Four of them are ferals that I rescued from a bar after I fixed the adults and they have been on this since I took them in.

I would have never known any of this if my other cat had not been diagnosed with diabetes. I just couldn't believe what I found out about the food. I was already buying them Pro Plan Selects, so this diet is not that much more expensive. The Wellness per ounce is about the same as the Fancy Feast and other grocery store varieties and the Innova Evo is a few cents higher per pound than what I was paying for the Pro Plan Selects. But they eat less because it has more nutrition! So you have to factor that in too.

 

The tooth was removed a week ago yesterday. He's still on the antibiotics for the time being though because the infection was being a little pesky and not wanting to heal (I assume because of his diabetes).

I am located in east Tennessee.

Great news! I fed him and gave him 1 unit of insulin after I got the 270 reading this morning, and about three and a half hours later I just checked him and he is back down to 105! Great results so far with the reduced dosage!

Everyone seems to agree that Wellness is a great healthy diet all-around for felines so I'm going to call around the local pet stores and see if I can locate one that carries it. Bringing the food to room temperature and adding a little water when it has sat in the fridge for a bit is great advice. If they don't eat all of the Wellness can during their twice daily feeding time I will definitely try that!

So far so good, thanks everyone! I'm happy with how he is coming along now. The vet just left me with more questions than answers. He ends up too busy because he always seems to try to take on too many patients. Normal waiting time (even when I have an APPOINTMENT) is 1-2 hours. I think the decisions I am making now for Pixie's health (even the ones that are opposed to my instructions from the vet) are the correct ones. I just wish I knew this hundreds of dollars ago! Most of the money I spent was wasted (except for what was spent on the insulin) because I am basically starting from scratch and re-doing everything they did at the animal hospital, just more informed and no quick clipping!!! I am sure Pixie is very happy about that. He still whines a little during test time because I think we got started off on the wrong foot (I think re-using the lancets a few times was a bad choice on my part, didn't realize it dulled that quickly), but it's getting much better.

-Mike 'n' Pixie puff

 

P.S.
With the Wellness canned cat food, are there specific flavors I need to be giving? Or are they all healthy and it is safe to just mix it up a little? I read somewhere not to feed cats fish more than a few times a week, is this correct? And what is the reasoning behind it, if anyone knows? Thanks again!

 

take a look at Janet's charts for the Wellness values...

And yes, fish should be limited because of high phosphorous levels (harder on kidneys) and potential for heavy metal contamination. Plus it just does not sound like it is a good protein source for them...despite what cartoon shows have taught us

 

Well, my local pet store does the Wellness canned cat foods only on special order. So if I decide to purchase it from them I need to give them my order by Tuesday and they will have it the next day.

Their price tag is $27.99 for a case of 12 12.5oz cans. Does this sound reasonable? I may look around on the internet or can anyone suggest any websites that may sell it cheaper? Or will the shipping outweigh the savings?

-M

 

check out the old mother hubbard website for shipping

 

I think I've pretty much decided to go with the Wellness 12.5oz cans (you get more ounces for your dollar with the big ones). I'm going to try regular chicken first. I'll eventually try to keep more flavors on hand for variety but with all the money I've spent on the vet over the last couple weeks I can probably only afford one case right now. My oldest cat has pretty severe arthritis in her back right leg so I've had to have her to the doctor also... she's on anti-inflammatory medication and goes back for her checkup this Saturday.

So would I probably feed all 5 cats one 12.5 ounce can twice a day (total of 25 oz in a total day for all 5 cats)? Without crunchy food, do I need to be brushing their teeth to keep them clean?

-M

 

it is actually a fallacy that dry food keeps their teeth clean! Options include dental gels, enzymatic treats, cat toothpaste, or raw chicken necks...

 

Here's an interesting question: let's say I get a 180-190 reading from him and I have to leave for work and will not be available to monitor his BG levels for 10+ hours... should I administer a half a unit just to make sure he stays within a safe range in my absence? Or stick to the only dose at 200+?

 

I'd rather try that experiment when you are around. At the very least, if you can test again in 30mins to see if it has gone up more....

 

also check out petfooddirect.com get on their mailing list and you'll get coupon codes - the best one I've seen is 22% - those are rare - the more common ones are 15-20%

This may be helpful too: http://www.petfooddirect.com/Landing/Au ... CjCKwuzAkf


and sign up for wellness pet club and you'll get coupons!

if you PM me your email address - I'll forward the coupons I received - so you can use them on your cases that you buy.

 

I get my catfood at a nearby mom-and-pop pet store that has to special-order it. But they don't charge any shipping, and they usually give me a bit of a discount because they don't have to stock the food, just order it when I ask for it.

The price you were quoted for a case of 12.5 oz Wellness cans sounds about right.

The grain-free flavors of Wellness are the low-carb ones. I feed one of my cats alternately chicken and turkey. One 12.5 oz can lasts him a bit more than 2 days. The other one does better on a lower-fat food, so she gets Merrick (Grammie's Pot Pie, lately; Cowboy Cookout when I can be sure her brother won't get any - he is strongly allergic to beef). The same pet store special-orders the Merrick, too.

Whether cats will eat cold (refrigerated) food is another one of those it-depends-on-the-cat things. Neither of mine seems the least bit bothered by it, but some cats will refuse food unless it is room temperature.

It *is* a good idea to refrigerate leftovers when it is going to be hours before you serve the food again. Leaving the food out for an hour to let it warm up may or may not be necessary, though. You just have to try it to see how your cat likes his food. Putting hot water on the food is another good technique - helps with the temperature of refrigerated food and also helps to make sure the cats get enough water to keep their kidneys and bladder healthy.

Your numbers are sounding great. Conservative dosing and lots of testing are going to be your friends. With a bit of time, good diet, clearing up the infection from that tooth, and judicious use of small doses of insulin, you may very well end up with a diet-controlled cat!

 

That price sounds about right -- I have a cat with fish allergy (from feeding too much fish when he was young), so we just get the Wellness Chicken and Wellness Turkey flavors.

The store I buy from gives a 6% discount when purchasing by the case, and 4 cases runs about $100. (the store is not in my neighborhood, so I stock up).

 

I think I finally have most of the information I need to care for him pretty well on a day-to-day basis for now. May think of more questions, but I can't thank all of you enough! This is probably the most warm welcome I've ever received on any message board. You guys are the best. I'll probably be frequenting here quite often and I'll report on Pixie ever so often. I had to work 2nd shift tonight so my girlfriend tested him and came up with 150, so that's another decent number for him.

-M

 

This is the most welcoming and helpful group you will find.

Just wanted to comment on your kitty's name.

Possibly 'before your time'...but in my youth there was a cartoon on TV
with two cats in it. Their names were Pixie & Dixie.

My best childhood friend therefore named her two kittens Pixie and Dixie.

Her Pixie lived to b 22 years old....may you have many more years with your Pixie.

 

Hehehe... yeah Pixie always seems like a pretty girly name to people when I tell them his name, but he's actually named after a song. Well, not really a song but a band who sings a song. It plays at the ending scene of Fight Club, it's The Pixies - Where is My Mind?

And he was 264 today so I administered the 1 unit of insulin, same as I did yesterday morning when he read about the same. It regulated him yesterday. I'm hoping it does the same today because I have to leave for work and won't be able to test his BG for about 6 hours.

-M

 

Hi Mike,

You and your girlfriend are doing an amazing job with Pixie.

Just a couple of notes for you:

With 8 cats and 5 diabetics amoung them, I mix Wellness with the non gravy poultry varieties of Friskies and Fancy Feast. I rotate flavors. Try and keep the carbs between 5 and 8%. Makes it economical to feed everyone canned food - healthier in the long run.

ProZinc is new and available only thru vets. Also the U-40 syringes are available only at the vets.

Lantus and Levemir are very commonly used by people on this board. They are very effective and often lead to remission, and certainly to regulation. I use Lantus all the time.

They are human insulins that the FDA has not approved for use in cats. It is not because they aren't good or won't work, it is because the manufacturers have not asked the FDA for approval. Costs a lot of money to get approval. In Canada, Lantus and Levemir are much more standard.

Good luck with Pixie and keep on asking questions!!!

Claudia