Newly diagnosed and worried

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Glassgoblin, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    My Jaxa, a nine year old female, was just diagnosed this morning and given her first insulin shot by the vet. We have been seeing a vet since November and she was diagnosed with pancreatitis in December. The LIPA test today looked good though so the vet thought that the pancreatitis was not an issue at the moment.

    So this is my concern. I had to bring her home and then go back to work, and when I came home she had been drinking but couldn't tell that she had eaten much. They sent us home with Royal Canin Glycobalance. The pieces of food are gigantic; Jaxa likes tiny pieces. She seemed hungry when I got home though, but wouldn't eat so I gave her half a tab of cerenia, and then her regular doses of ondansetron and cyproheptadine as the vet said to wean those slowly. So right now she seems hungry, but she won't eat, and every time she does try to eat she starts wheezing, gagging and has vomited up some of her food (then tried to eat it again). I gave her some wet Fancy Feast pate and the same thing happened with that food. I tried breaking the dry food into smaller pieces but it turns to dust instead of smaller chunks, so unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option and she doesn't even want to try eating her regular Fancy Feast dry. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do if I can't get her to eat when I am supposed to give her shot in the morning.

    I left a msg with the vet's office, but of course this is Saturday night and after the last few months I cannot afford an emergency call unless it is an absolute emergency.
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  2. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Welcome, sorry Jaxa is having trouble. Did the vet give her any other meds that she could be reacting to? Do you think she could have a blockage? How is she acting otherwise?
     
  3. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    She has some of her meds from the pancreatitis, but nothing other than the insulin is new. She sounds a bit wheezy; not always unusual, though I was worried that she may have breathed in water since she lays with her head just above the bowl. I can't tell if there is a blockage, other than it isn't to her lungs. I did call the emergency line but am waiting for the on-call vet to get back to me. *The on-call was our old vet, and he only suggested feeding her less at one time, which is not so helpful as she wasn't trying to eat very much at any given moment,
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  4. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hope they get back to you soon! How is she acting otherwise?
     
  5. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Maybe try mixing the fancy feast pate with some water. That is my regular feeding ritual for our kittehs. Mostly they get fancy feast stew for all their meals!

    Also welcome to the forum.
     
  6. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    One of the first things to do is get a meter and strips I guess? I am scared to ignore the vet directions but worried about how much she eats right now. She was acting as though she had something stuck in her throat, and I don't know if it was a piece of that giant dry royal cabin food or one of the pills for nausea and appetite she had, but she ate some canned without vomiting it back and still has trouble with the dry- maybe she continually is trying to swallow too large pieces? Drank several times also, so liquids are getting through. I put the dry food away for the moment, have several cans of Ff, Wellness, RC and misc grain free. It looks like the favorite seafood flavors are often higher carb so will have to explore a little on that Binky's List.

    I like to add water to her pate too, usually a little warm water if it has been refrigerated or room temp water to keep it moist until she eats it all.

    I've been keeping a food and med log for the pancreatitis so will continue that and note her behavior as well. But need the testing, am paranoid that I will give her insulin when she doesn't need it etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  7. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Here’s the food chart we use. It has been recently updated, so info is good. Look for under 10 carbs. Yes take away the dry it’s not the best for her anyway. I think the Fancy Feast Classic seafood flavors are ok. As for the meter, yes, definitely. Many of us use a human meter. It will read lower than the vets, but is much more affordable. What insulin is she on?
     
  8. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018

    They gave us prozinc insulin.

    This is probably a weird observation,but her purring sounds different, I wonder if she didn't bruise the inside of her throat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    Reason for edit: Added note
  9. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    She may have scratched or bruised it. Are you in the US? Many of us use the Relion micro or confirm meter from Walmart. It’s cheap and easy to use. As I said earlier it will read differently from your vets meter, but will tell you if Jaxa is to low for insulin.The vet meters (usually the Alphatrac) is more accurate for cats, but the strips are expensive, but a very good meter if affordable. Whichever you choose, be sure to get plenty test strips, and 26-28 gauge lancets.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

    Prozinc is a good insulin. We have a prozinc forum if you have any specific questions about that insulin. Read the yellow stickies at the top of the page, they are full of useful info
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  10. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I just got back from Walmart, and got a Relion Confirm, test strips, lancets (33 gauge, and have been trying to figure this out but I have tried three times to get blood from her ear with no success so far. tiny bit of blood, not on the right place to test on the strip. We're both a little stressed now, but she taking a break to eat.

    I need to learn what it means for the results I get; she is at 241 right now, which is high but she tested 424 at the vet's yesterday morning. I just don't know if it is high if that means she needs more insulin, to just follow the vet's guidelines so far (twice a day 10-12 hrs apart/2 units) and stay on schedule, to check her food, etc.. They didn't want to discuss home testing when I asked, and wanted to have me just bring her in after a couple days of shots. She did have her morning shot and was noticeably perkier about two hours later. My cousin is a Type I diabetic but we aren't close so I don't really know about asking him personal questions about testing/response. Will search the forums for more advise.

    *Got more foods/wet that were listed with low carbs too*
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
    Reason for edit: tested
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  11. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Do take a break. Are you warming her ear? Some use a rice sock warmed in the microwave, I just vigorously rub my cats ear. The larger gauge lancets would help too, but I started with the ones you have, so it can be done. Have you looked at the hometesting link I posted above? There are some videos as well as a pic of the sweet spot on the ear.
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    At the beginning, thicker lancets make it easier to get blood - 26 to 28 gauge often labelled "for alternate site testing". Warming the ear first helps a lot.

    Here's a helpful photo:

    upload_2018-3-4_12-14-33.png
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  13. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    If you end up with the Alphatrak2 meter, you can use FreeStyle Lite strips. I get the strips from ebay for $0.33 apiece. Leo gets tested 3 or 4 times a day, so we figure ~$1.30 a day in testing.

    For their Fancy Feast meals, we nuke the prepped meal until it is lukewarm. I test it with my finger. One of our cats drinks out all the gravy, so I usually monitor them eating, and add more water as they work thru it.
     
  14. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I rub Leo's ear from base to tip. It warms the ear, and it pushes the blood up into the test area.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  15. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    @Glassgoblin happy to see you here, you're getting good advice! Well done on getting the meter. Testing is tricky at first but you'll get used to it. Right now I'd say the priorities are:

    - getting food into her
    - figuring out the testing thing
    - (note I put this third) how much insulin to give

    Insulin doses are adjusted vary slowly, as its effect can be powerful. How much insulin did your vet instruct you to give? I understand the concern about getting conflicting advice from your vet and people on the internet. I've been there and it was very uncomfortable. The advantage of testing, in this situation, and being here is that you can gather the data and learn what you need to know to back up your decisions and explain to the vet why you did what you did.

    In how many hours would your next shot be?

    You might want to take a moment to read through this: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/ -- a lot of info in it but come back to it, it will start making sense. Ask any questions you have if something is unclear for you.
     
  16. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Was told 2 units of insulin, twice a day; her doses are going to be about 6:50am and pm.

    The food is a worry with the pancreatitis; I skipped her morning pills to see if she would eat well without, and because her throat still seemed sore, but she still hasn't finished her first can of wet food. We always had the wet food as more of a treat and she preferred small dry kibble types; she prefers crunchy, never chewy foods and treats so pate was always the only wet option. Tested her again an hour ago, and it hadn't changed too much. I think I need to give the ondansetron and cypro tonight, but maybe not the cerenia. She has never been a big eater (before the pancreatitis she ate about 1/2-2/3 c. daily even at 20 lbs.) She was 18lb on Saturday, down from 19.6 on January 24th, so the vet and I both want to see that slow loss continue, but now I worry that we need to find a balance of calories (she is willing to eat) and her glucose levels. I can't keep buying foods hoping she will like one. Why can't someone sell a sampler, lol?

    Her drinking has already changed though- decreased. A few days ago she was eating about 350-400 calories per day and I haven't even wanted to count today though since I know it is low.
     
  17. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    If she won’t eat enough canned food you can try THIS food. It is low carb dry and the kibbles are small. If you call them they will send a sample.
     
    JanetNJ likes this.
  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    @JeffJ FYI-The freestyle strips in the AT2 meter don't produce the same numbers. I tested today and got 79 with AT2 strip and 103 with Freestyle strip. Not acceptable in my opinion.
     
  19. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    That is quite a variation. One of our members did a side by side test over a year ago. The results were nearly equivalent. I have been using the FreeStyle Lite strips for over a year. You are using code 38 correct? The strips are not expired?
     

    Attached Files:

    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  20. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Yeah, code 38. Strips expire 5/2018. I did other tests as well:

    AT2 strip, At2 meter code 38 = 79
    Freestyle strip, AT2 meter code 38 = 101
    Code on Freestyle bottle is 16. 16 is not an option on AT2.
    Freestyle strip, AT2 meter code 15 = 137
    Freestyle strip, AT2 meter code 17 = 153

    The one thing that confuses me is the vial says code 16, but the freestyle meter says no coding. I went out and bought a freestyle meter to use, but haven't yet because I need control solution for it.
     
  21. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I'm still using the AT2 meter. Keep the code at 38 on the AT2. Frankly I consider these test strips to be similar to ink cartridges. The strips are probably $0.01 to make and they upcharge a lot.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  22. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    We are looking for consistency with testing. So a perfect test would be to use the same tester and same batch of strips - 10 strips on one drop of blood. They should all be within about 20%.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  23. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    My last vial of AT2 strips, before this last one, was code 22 I believe. I'll try that code next time and see what it comes up with.
     
  24. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Have tested several times now and I think we've gotten the hang of it. Still having trouble coaxing her to eat more than 180-200 calories in a day. I let the vet office know she was vomiting the royal canin as she was eating it, but who knows if they will have an alternative. Jaxa wouldn't even try the can of wet food they sent with of glycobalance because it had chunks in it and she hates that. Running to specialty pet store after work I think to see if they have low carb dry or some treats I could use to tempt her with. She still we ts Friskies treats, anyone know if those are okay? It says 4.0% for carb listing on nutrition details,but I don't know how that equates basedon the food listings I've looked at. Have to go to work and hope for the best while I am gone.
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Have you tried feeding her Fancy Feast or Friskies pate style foods? They're low enough in carbs and have a smooth texture she might prefer.

    Re treats: you can buy freeze dried meat or fish treats (single ingredient) at most pet stores. Pure Bites is one common brand. Specialty pet stores will carry Orijen brand in several varieties. I use both brands.
     
  26. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Hi ... not sure if this helps but Maji previously was on UR food then had to go off that...so vet wanted supplemental water. Originally I tried mixing water with the pate... but Maji did not seem to like that...BUT this worked as follows... I get a small amount of filtered water like two teaspoons only into a clean bowl then I scoop out a fresh can of her pate and put it in the bowl right on top of the water so it’s like a little island in the middle... not too much water at all small amount and Maji just loves that she’ll bite away chunks of food then she begins lapping all around the food like it’s gravy but it’s not it’s the water... seems to work for me :) rather Maji!!!!
     
  27. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Have you checked out the food I linked above (post 17). It is dry, high calorie and low carb. We recommend wet food first, but she needs to eat and if she likes the Young Again you can use it to help transition her more easily. It and Dr Elsys Clean Protein are really the only low carb dry foods out there.
     
  28. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    I test in my cats paws, just a thought, he won’t let me do ear
     
  29. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    We usually have Fancy Feast and have tried a couple cans of Friskies recently. She just never wants to eat a whole can in a day, much less the three or more needed for her calories requirements. She sometimes will eat half if what is in her bowl, I mix in a little water or tuna water and she will eventually eat some of that, and so on until it has been out too many hours. The thing I like about dry is that she can get the same amount of calories in a fourth of a cup of dry as a can, but she is more likely to eat all of the dry.

    I tried some others recently too; she hated the whole chunks of meat in weruva, but ate a whole can of Whole Earth Farms salmon pate. If it were not storming I would have gone to the specialty food store today,but roads are bad.

    My other current concern is a question about the test/feed/shot schedule on the prozinc page, because I'm not sure if that means it is okay to test when I get home and then feed even though there is an hour before her shot. The two hours of no food is confusing me; two hours before testing for the shot, or just no food before the shot in general?
     
  30. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I did and bookmarked the page. I sent them a message about samples but am waiting to buy anything more online atm.
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  31. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    It's two hours before the test. You want your pre-shot test to be "clean", ie not food-influenced. Then you want to feed, and then shoot. You feed before shooting because in the case where the cat doesn't eat, you don't want to be giving insulin, or maybe just a reduced dose. So you feed first to make sure you have an eating cat before you give insulin.
     
    allison and Bubbles and Sharon14 like this.
  32. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    I didn't always manage to get clean preshot tests, however. I'd wake up in the morning, test, feed, shoot, but as Quintus is a grazer, I couldn't be sure he hadn't eaten during the last two hours when I was sleeping. Same when I got home from work, I'd test-feed-shoot as soon as I got back, so I just had to hope he hadn't eaten too much just before. If he'd remained on insulin any longer I'd have bought a bowl with a timer and different compartments, but I didn't have time!
     
  33. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    She had her second appt with the vet today; glucose at 419 so the vet wants to go to 3 units in the insulin- she is at 18lbs still. My mother thinks she smells musty and the dog keeps smelling her too, though I don't know if it because Jaxa was away for hours. Third appt set for this Saturday.

    I plan to stop at the petstore for food and Walmart for ketone strips after work tomorrow.

    I feel like I'm crying all the time lately.
     
  34. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    It will get better.:bighug: Feel free to come here and vent, we’ve all done it, and we’re good listeners
     
  35. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I'm of limited help right now, am on business travel until Friday pm.

    Some people can smell the ketones, and I'm one of them. Leo had ketones before we got him first diagnosed. Like most everybody we felt horrible that he got in such bad shape before we figured out what was happening (almost 3 years ago). He looked all washed out and had lost about 20% of his weight. But you are in the right place now, and it's not too late. Many kittehs respond very well to insulin and there can be some drastic health improvements.

    It looks like you are on 2 units, twice daily now. I probably wouldn't crank it to 3.0 units. But would probably do a dose increase to 2.25 or 2.5. If you get time, it would be very helpful to create and maintain a spreadsheet. Even just for a month. It would show the insulin response patterns and help you fine tune the dosage.
     
  36. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I did give her three units last night, but that was before I saw this. She tested at 296 this morning, so I fed her and gave her 2.25 unit or as close to that as I could eyeball it. We are still struggling with some eating, though she had a few bites of both wet and dry this morning and always wants her Friskies treats.

    I wonder about the Friskies treats but they list carbs at 4% and her Royal Canin dry is 6.8%. Does anyone else give those treats? I .looking for different ones but she does love them.
     
  37. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I’m not familiar with the Friskies treats. What are the ingredients?
     
  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Just popping in to say that you'll get there over time. It's really hard at the start but it will get better. :bighug:
     
    JeffJ likes this.
  39. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Where do did you get those figures from? I have a hard time believing that. Not to say you're wrong, but might be bad info.
     
  40. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Awhile back I contacted Royal Canin and did the calculations for %calories from carbs and the dry was 25% carbs.
     
  41. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Which treats were those?
     
  42. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Not treats, the Royal Canin dry food. I though that’s what @Glassgoblin meant?
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  43. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    That's probably fine. We are trying to avoid a hypo during these increases. Some cats respond vigorously with increased dosage. Here is the recent summary:
    3/5 (and earlier) 2.0 units each dose
    3/6 AMPS ? - 2.0 units
    3/6 AMPS +3-6 hrs - BG 420
    3/6 PMPS high - 3.0 units
    3/7 AMPS 296 - 2.25 units

    I will be offline probably until late tonight. I recommend staying at 2.25 for 6 doses and seeing where the AMPS and PMPS values are. Then raise it to 2.5 units/dose. While prozinc is not technically a depot insulin, there can be an overlap past the 12 hour mark. I still recommend a spreadsheet since it will help you and us - for dosing adjustments.
     
  44. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Oh maybe she did. If she found a treat or dry food that was 6.8% I want to get some :)
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  45. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I encourage you to go over to the ProZinc forum where you can get insulin specific advice from folks who use or have used that insulin. Jeff is right: technically it's an in and out insulin but it can have a little bit of carryover into the next cycle for some kitties. Also, I second his advice to get a spreadsheet like the one we use here set up. It would make it so much easier for us to help, especially in a tense situation. :)
     
    JeffJ likes this.
  46. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
  47. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I'm looking at the bags and trying to figure out how it equates to the numbers for the RC food listed on the spreadsheets, because they don't make sense to me. I don't know what fancy equations are used to convert those numbers but if the Friskies is lower than the RC it seemed like it might be okay. We got our two free samples from Young Again cat food and she gets to try that at shot time tonight. I didn't know it was a local company- I'm in MN too.
     
    JeffJ, Sean & Rufus and Sharon14 like this.
  48. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Yeah, they equations get me too. I usually call the company or look on chewy.com in the question section under the food, usually people have already asked what the carb % is.

    Which friskies treats and which RC dry?
     
  49. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    We have the Friskies party mix, and the vet gave us Royal Canin Glycobalance. I've been trying to get her to eat more canned but she seems to think of that as a treat instead of a meal.
     
  50. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    FYI the Royal Canin Glycobalance is super high, it actually is 25.2% carbs! And I think the Friskies party mix is way more then that :(
     
  51. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Well, that sucks. I did put out the Young Again food but she just sniffed it and moved away. I want to get her something good, but it doesn't matter if she won't eat it.
     
  52. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I hear ya. My "regular" cat ate the young again for a week, and no really won't. Rufus barely touches it. What you could do is mix the 2 foods together, and then it would be like 13% carbs. OR mix 2 cups of young again with 1 cup of the royal canin and make it like 8 or 9%. That is kind of what I'm doing, mixing 2 foods together.
     
  53. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  54. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Generally dry foods are not that great for cats. And when you think about it, wild cats don't eat dry foods - they eat fresh kill or carrion. I think many cats are like many people, they would like to eat junk food. That's hard to control for people! But for our kittehs we can provide a more natural diet for them that is relatively healthy.
     
  55. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    She did try some of the Young Again when I left it out overnight. Because of her pancreatitis these last few months I began obsessing over calories. She needs to loose weight but I don't want another liver problem like we had in December, where she was hospitalized for three days. Until I can get her to eat more than a half can of wet she has to make up the calories with dry. Asked my other vet about getting the Purina DM -sample- to see if she would eat it. I'll spend all kinds of money if it works to find something she will eat, and will look for someone who wants the other food if she doesn't. Going to see if I can find some kind of bonito flake or other topper in the mean time. I resorted to cyproheptadine this morning so hopefully she will eat more than what little she had at shot time.

    I am so lucky that I just went full time at work (county govt employee) so I can afford to do whatever it takes, and until those first bigger paychecks I am lucky to have gotten the CareCredit.

    Will try to set up a spreadsheet later, haven't had time to think this week. I write everything in a journal so I have all of her tests to add, times, etc. Her last three have been under 300 (258/food/shot, 296 6 hrs later, 291/food/shot this morning). She is a nocturnal and a social eater so day values always seem lower. Will get it posted when I can.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  56. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    They said they would send me a sample, I just had to let them know what flavor. Good news on the Young Again though; I left it out last night and she ate some, ate some more today so I added the second sample to the food dish. She has only had about 1/4 c (each sample measured at 1/2 c) but it has some decent calories in just that amount. If she continues eating it tonight I think I may order a bag tomorrow- they are close enough to me that the mailing won't take too long. My local pet store gave me two samples of Taste of the Wild Prey- Turkey and Beef. Not as low carb as some, but it looks better than the RC and some of the other options. We are waiting to try it though as I don't want to keep throwing a different food at her every day. Will definitely get my spread sheet put together this weekend.
     
  57. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  58. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    It is still a struggle. We had a stressful day after a night with vomit and diarrhea. I brought her to the vet and she stayed all day while I was at work, so they did blood tests and gave us an antibiotic. Will have to update spreadsheet later typing on my kindle is making me homicidal. Her overall liver level was good, but one liver value was high from not eating enough recently. I need to pick a food and we need to stick with it, but it is so hard to guess what she is willing to eat. Will return the wild samples though. Just thinking about getting Purina DM, the thing that sucks is that the vet hospital only has 6lb bags as the smallest size and if she hates I can't afford to keep trying food after food, and upsetting her stomach too. Or just sticking with the CR and breaking it into smaller pieces until the bag is gone. I have the bag of CR, half a bag of Hills W/d from her pancreatitis, and about a third or fourth of a bag of Purina beyond and I need to figure out what I can do with them since two are prescription and the third has other bits mixed in so the shelter doesn't want it. I hate just throwing any of it out, but might end up feeding the Beyond to the squirrels and local fox.
     
  59. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    What about the Young Again?
     
  60. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Many of the prescription foods will allow you to return an opened bag. Also petsmart and other places sell DM and may have a smaller bag. Don’t know if you need a prescription though. Not sure of the carb count on the dry, I think it’s not too bad, but it is over 10. I’ll see if I can find it. As for the other foods, maybe donate them to the shelter?

    ETA Just looked it up and according to there website it’s 18% carbs! Way too high. The ingredients include lots of soy and corn. Soy can mess with thyroid, so I try to avoid it and it’s not a cats natural food anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  61. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Hi Glassgoblin,

    Https://www.chewy.com

    Will let you order food ships free 1-2 days if your order is over $49. AND if your kitty hates it they will refund you ! I’ve had to turn away a bunch of food I received on auto ship and they credited me and asked me to donate it to a cat shelter - which I did

    It gets expensive trying out foods - chewy is great!!!
     
  62. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    If she would get over the diarrhea, which someone suggested may be caused by the Young Again anecdotally, I like that for the calorie count alone. Jaxa is a small volume cat so she needs high calories; a half cup is almost all she would need in a day. But no matter which food we pick I worry that I'll spend 30+ on a small bag only for her not to eat it, and then I have to find something else. I'm naturally indecisive and am hearing so many things right now it makes me hesitate and second guess every choice. I just want a clear answer and to know she will eat enough every day to slowly get to a better weight without liver issues. I've been scared every day since mid-December, when she was hospitalized for fatty liver, that it would happen again. And of course there are no clear answers or guarantees, so I worry.

    I am not thrilled with the way YA made her bm smell, lol. Really bad. I had to smell the litter after she peed just to make sure it wasn't that, which is wasn't thankfully.
     
  63. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I do love Chewy; I've been getting my supplements for her through there's though I stopped giving the phytomucil when I heard it had sugars. I haven't been sure of the prozyme either since it is plant based, so have stopped adding it to her food.
     
  64. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Have you tried ZIWIpeak air dried? Maji thinks it’s a real treat they do have wet foods in ZIWIpeak - but if your trying to get anything down her perhaps she might like the nibblets... and then perhaps eventually a little of the ZIWIpeak wet food with nibblets scattered around it? Maji loves all of the flavors but the mackerel and lamb is really DA BOMB with her ... but she eats all of em for treats beef, lamb and lamb and mackerel - kinda pricey...but then there’s always the chewy return!!! :)
     
    Glassgoblin likes this.
  65. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I hear ya about indecisive! I'm indecisive and I'm going through Rufus not eating well, and then on top of that having to find a food my other cat will eat. If I we're you, I'd order the Dr Elsey food. Cross fingers that she likes it (it's higher cals, too), and if she doesn't have Chewy refund you. I have heard too about the Young Again and loose stool, but supposedly that goes away after a short time.
     
    Glassgoblin and Magic Johnson like this.
  66. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Chewy is awesome! I first ordered form them last summer, and both cats didn't like the new food. They asked me to write a review, so I did. I said that my cats didn't care for the food, even though it was highly rated. Next day I got an email saying they wanted to refund my money! I had no idea companies did that without even asking! I'm not a huge fan of Petsmart, but Chewy is terrific!
     
    Glassgoblin and Magic Johnson like this.
  67. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I think Jaxa might be making a decision. I put all of her food up when we got home to get ready for testing/feeding and shot time. The vet had given her part of a can of wet Purina DM, I dumped the old wet Fancy Feast and put the CR in her dish and the YA in the baggie. At food time she ate a little bit of DM, but not much. Wouldn't touch the CR. So after waiting a couple hours I just put the CR in a baggie so I can put those broken pieces into the big bag without mixing them (in case), and I put the Young Again in her dish and let her sniff it. She showed some interest and ate some when I put it down. Not a lot, but with high calories and time for grazing as they suggest free feeding, I think I will just order that right now. We are still getting a free sample from the Dr. Eisley website; they were really nice about offering a flavor choice.

    I updated her spreadsheet and added her labs from today (the ones that they gave me a copy of anyway); the numbers for what they list as normal range differs from the spreadsheet template in a few places, but the only two high levels were the glucose and her one liver value (from not eating); two low levels though, and they didn't say anything about either when I was talking over her health. *Her only reds are from when she is at the vet for the test, though she has gotten close at home too.
     
  68. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I really really wish my cats would eat the Young Again. I have the LID version and need it to work. But, cats are being cats.
     
    Glassgoblin and Magic Johnson like this.
  69. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Re food: yes, carbs are important, but even more important is eating. Low carbs is better, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t get anywhere with higher carb food. It might be less easy, but not impossible. So first worry about finding something she eats and tolerates, and try and work with that.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  70. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Unfortunately all she really wants to eat are the treats and not the food; we're getting there though.
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  71. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi glassgoblin...I just felt for you very much when you said you are crying all the time over the frustration of this illness...I have been too and i havent even started giving my cat bubbles any insulin ...I am frankly terrified of killing my own cat through some overlooked error....I will be starting this same rollercoaster this week and i have the additional problem of a 17 yr old cat with some underlying condition making her not want to eat much at all...which will require me to force feed her and she hates being held...omg...so i am just sending you our love and saying hang in there ...i think you are doing an awesome job...I have been reading alot of your posts...your kitty is very lucky to have you as her keeper...hugs
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  72. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018

    Thanks and good luck to you and your kitty. With panreatitis Jaxa isn't a big eater; if your vet is willing to give a prescription of cyproheptadine or mirtazapine it can help, both are good appetite stimulants, or if there is a nausea issue ask about zofran (aka ondansetron). They can help a lot, even if cats do not appreciate pills. I have to give Jaxa cerenia occasionally as well, to prevent vomiting.

    It is a roller coaster though; one day will seem like everything is starting to make sense and the tests are good, and then the next day she won't eat or has hgiher tests and just doesn't seem to feel well. I just hope that it evens out over time, and with proper treatment and diet.
     
    allison and Bubbles likes this.
  73. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
     
  74. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi glassgoblin...apparently m..and i have read MUCH about this very issue...you do have a struggle in the beginning but a routine will soon develop...my vet said main rule...not enough food equals no insulin...thank you very much for thr info on appetite stimulants as i had not even thot of tbat!!!!this is my HUGE CONCERN about this process...and the antinauseant info aswell!! maybe there is alot more hope than i thot...cant thank u enough for that as i will actually be able to sleep tonight!
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  75. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Just be careful because at the high levels your cat is, not giving any insulin plus high levels puts him at risk for developing ketones. How is he doing today?
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  76. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    I agree... as soon as Magic’s glucose level
    dropped even just giving insulin 1U just once a day ... before graduating to twice a day made a huge diff in her energy level :) and demeanor
     
  77. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi Janet...Bubbles has eaten two tbsps of wet food....I got her several cans of royal canon food (this one is for kittens so its tasty)...the only food she can be coaxed to eat these days and I took all her food away last night to make her feel an appetite this am...I was REALLY hoping she would eat the recommended three tbsps ...this is my biggest concern other than the immediate threat of ketones which came back negative yesterday from fridays urine test at the vet....my vet said "half the food half the recommended insulin dose"...I am wondering if it would be best to take her to another vet immediately for the curve and get her started on insulin...this vet didnt seem AT ALL concerned and said see if she will eat over next "cppl" days and then bring her in for the test and subsequent insulin...? I am getting such incredibly different information from vets than this site...I am sure you have heard this ...there seems to be this GIGANTIC gap btwn the knowledge here and the vet....everyone is inclined to believe doctors before ppl but i am very leary and feel very alone in my decision making process about nearly everything. ..I mean wat if she develops ketones overnight in her urine...her prognosis and treatment change drastically
     
  78. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I think a second vet opinion is a good idea. I think she should have been started on insulin immediately. Ketones can develop quickly.


    So even with his advice of half food half insulin you should have given her some insulin, or had he not even given you a perscription yet?
     
  79. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I feel the same about my vet sometimes; when my kitty was diagnosed with pancreatitis they didn't give us any pain meds, even though I asked about it (it is supposed to be a painful thing). I asked that vet about diabetes also, because it was a possibility a month before she was diagnosed and he bascially blew me off. Last week this new vet mentioned smelling Jaxa and watching out for ketones but when I asked about testing for them he said I didn't have to worry about doing that (and they didn't test either). I'm going in shortly, and ketone strips are on my list.
     
  80. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi its Allison...yes vets are way off at times it seems...I have had pancreatitis ...its the most painful thing you can have almost ...I have learned you realky have to be assertive with not only yur pets care but yur own...in hospitals everywhere...staff are busy and make mistakes
     
  81. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    no three different expensive vets did not even SUGGEST insulin rite away even tho all three of them had her glucose levels...shocking...I have no choice but to wait another 24 hrs to get her into a vet for insulin...this is really surprising...and the fact that any vet would put my cats life in jeopardy is hard to believe
     
  82. allison and Bubbles

    allison and Bubbles Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    hi janet...three seperate vets knowing her bg level was 33 and rising to 35.4 in three days did not suggest i put her on insulin until they did the diabetic curve and none of them stressed any urgency to it so today after you said that i called all over trying to get her in immediately for proper care and noone was able to do it...she is eating still and drinking and seems quite upbeat...the earliest i can get her in is Tuesday....saying my prayers...I know there is sometimes no inication in their behavior to show ketones are in her urine...correct?
     
  83. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Ok well then all you can do in the meantime is make sure she only eats very low carb food and wait. Good luck.
     
  84. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    Update on Jaxa's numbers yesterday; since she has been eating poorly I haven't wanted to take food away just because I was going to test during the day, and unfortunately yesterday we had very little of our sample ZYA left, so I mixed in her other higher carb food and she ate mostly that. I tried to get a # after our PM shot, but after sticking her ear five times and not getting anywhere I could see she was getting anxious and she started pulling away, so I let her go. It was a day of excuses. Hopefully we will get the ZYA, in the mail supposedly, soon, but she will be eating higher carb today too- she actually wanted to eat between testing and the shot today, and after the shot again though. I would rather that she eat though and not go back toward bad liver values.

    Plus, we went from loose bm on Friday morning to normal bm last night. She seemed to feel better after that. I have been holding back on cerenia until I am sure she isn't going to eat, and she has been eating enough each day to just put it off a little more. I would give her a pepcid, but read that antacids are bad to giving when on amoxicillan.
     
  85. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    That's a decent pre shot number this AM. I agree that she has to eat and for now if it's higher carb you have to do that. You don't want to risk liver problems. It'll be difficult to assess an insulin dose with higher carb food in the mix but you have to choose your battles right now. The YA is known to cause loose stools in some kitties.
     
  86. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    What size lancet are you using
     
  87. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    When I shopped at Wal-mart last weekend the smallest I could find were the micro-thin Relion 33, which I've seen on here is larger than most use. I don't get paid until Thursday so I can't really afford to find a replacement until then at the earliest though.
     
  88. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Yikes that's about as thin as they come. This is why you had trouble. You want thicker ones. 26 or 28 gauge.the smaller the number the thicker the point. I use 28.
     
  89. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2018
    I wanted to post an update but not start a new thread; So about two weeks ago, I had just gotten through the sample of YA food and was waiting for our bag to arrive (the weekend shipping is slow) so I had to give her some of the higher carb food I had at hand to get by. She liked it a lot, but her numbers went up a bit on average. Then the YA food arrived, it was all mixed together in a pie pan and she has been eating that since last Tuesday. I have not had to give her anything for nausea or appetite stimulation in almost a week. A week before this last Friday we had gone to the vet because she vomited and needed a curve test there; so they kept us at 3 units twice a day then, and gave her amoxocillan (which she loathed with a vengeance). By the end of the next week (this last Friday) she seemed so much better, and the amoxicillan was ended, even though her numbers have not really gone down. So the vet upped her morning shot to 4 units and kept the evening at 3.

    She is eating on her own- when the food is put down again at food time she gobbles up enough that I don't worry and I give her the shot while she is distracted by the food. I haven't measured it, except what I am adding to the dish since last Tuesday. She doesn't even want her old treats anymore, which is good since I shouldn't be offering them at all. I tested for ketones after getting some strips, and it was negative. I wish her numbers were going down more noticeably, but there is something very noticeable right now. She has more energy, she is playing, she is social and she is as vocal as she always used to be (she has always been my chatty cat until these last few months). I am hoping to keep on track with her weight loss, and hoping that she continues to feel better. It is almost like I have my old kitty back; she hasn't really been like this since last November. The only thing I don't like is that the YA food is making her gassy- and it really, really stinks. Every time something goes right I just wait for something to go wrong though, so I am hoping that this continues and she doesn't have a flare or anything else go wrong with her health as we are starting to see improvement.
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  90. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    They tend to over eat it at first which can make them gassy or get the runs.
     
  91. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    HI Glassgoblin! That is so cool that Jaxa is acting like a kitten again! it really makes it so rewarding all of it! Congratulations to her getting better and her energy level!!!!!
     

Share This Page