Newly Diagnosed Diabetic Cat

Shinku 11.7 lbs small framed cat.

Slowly lost fur on her stomach and had severe diaherria and bloody stool spells for which I brought her to the vet three times for which I was told to switch litter, then was put on probiotics, and finally gastrointestinal food. I mentioned two of the three times about her aggressively seeking out food and large amounts of urine in her box. I saw the vet on 4-2019, 9-2019, and 12-2019.

Three months after last visit Shinku stayed with my Mom for a couple weeks right before quarantine. My cat lost fur on her paws head and scruff, I also noticed a dramatic increase in hunger and thirst, and her front paws appeared to be over extended and she was walking like a duck.

They said that the hair loss was caused by flea dust and that she is allergic. So she was treated which healed up one of her paws fur loss. (I suspect my Mom let her outside on a warm day)

I was told that she had a glucose level of 460. We started on 2 units a day, kept her on the Royal Canin gastrointestinal food. Then increased to 4 units and when checked she had dropped to only 419. I suggested the switch to Royal Canin Gycobalance I have slowly been introducing and we increased to 6 units.

It has been a few days and I noticed her wild aggressive behavior towards food has declined ... almost too much.

She stopped cleaning herself a month ago and her fur is pretty oily and dandruffy.

She had some energy and might play with a laser pointer for like 40 seconds or jump up to cuddle.

But Now:


Currently, she sleeps, gets up to eat, drink, and use the litter box only.

She is still losing tufts of fur.

She is sleeping with her head on her water fountain.

Her paws are still hyperextended by alot.

She peed in the closet twice which she has done before.

Her urinationation has not decreased.

She is taking human sized poops.

She has always been a sassy cat and she even stopped swatting at the other cat.

She seems a little dazed and her pretty eyes seem off but not cloudy.

I feel like I'm not getting great support from my Vet. Maybe it's because things are short staffed with the corona virus. Maybe it's the fact I have to keep suggesting things and that should be their job or in the past where I have gotten tests done and no follow up calls or explanations.

We started her injections on 3-23, exactly on month ago today, and was up to 6 units by 4-17

So I wanted to know is this typical behavior while adjusting to the insulin?

Is continued fur loss a sign?

She isn't losing weight or gaining weight is that a good sign?

I feel at a loss and a little scared.

Any help would be useful.

I'm going to take her back to the vet tomorrow if the decreased activity continues.

 

OH DEAR! First of all I'm glad you found us! You've come to the right place WELCOME TO FDMB.
I sounds like you kitty Shinku has food allergies and frankly too much insulin. The rise of bg numbers doesnt always mean to up the dosage.
Lets get more eyes on this ok? hang in there.
@DebandWink
[USER=]14639]@Nan&Amber(GA)[/USER]

 

SIGH

 

Welcome and the folks here will help you. Trust me!

I’ve got you JT @Deb & Wink @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Wendy&Neko

what insulin is Shinku on? 6units twice a day or split every 12 hours?

the peeing outside of the litter box is something I went through with Minnie as her neuropathy worsen and it sounds from what you’re describing “walking like a duck” that Shinku is developing it too which is a common side effect of unregulated diabetes. It mostly affects the back legs and it makes it hard for them to walk even short distances sometimes and jump as well. Ask your vet about it but he’ll likely know very little to be honest. You can google it too. I was told she’d never recover because hers was so severe she could barely walk 2-3 steps and it started affecting her front legs as well towards the end. The good news is that they don’t know. Minnie is 90% better and just last week started jumping on their 3 level cat tree that she hasn’t been able to reach for my months. So I’ll share a few things I did to help with the litter box issue. I got a few extra cheap shallow litter boxes, even disposable will do, and placed them near the spots she was sleeping or spending most of the days at. Walking becomes difficult for them and if they have to go far to the box, they’ll just pee whatever they are. You may also want to get some pee pads if Shinku is still going outside the box but on regular spots in the house. The crouching on the back legs to pee becomes hard and Minnie would pee laying down sideways most of the time. Once the diabetes is under control, and the folks here will help you with that, b12 will do wonders to help heal the neuropathy faster and gabapentin is also an option for the inflammation of the nerves and arthritis.

hang on Shinku will get better!

 

What kind of insulin? Are you shooting once per day or 2x per day (2x per day is recommended)? Six units per day is a large dose, it concerns me, especially this:

This might be a sign of hypoglycemia (low blood glucose). With all of the other issues going on, though, it is hard to tell. She is still eating and drinking well, correct? That makes the other dangerous possibility, ketones/DKA, less likely, but it's still a worry. The problem is that the two dangerous conditions, hypoglycemia and DKA, have opposite insulin recommendations (less vs. more), and so we don't want to guess which it is.

Are you willing to learn to home-test blood glucose? It's a little scary at first, but once you and your cat get the hang of it it's a snap. It's absolutely the best way for you to be able to keep your kitty safe while giving insulin, and it's a way for you to be able to get some more control over the situation. Right now, things are clearly not working for Shinku, and like you, I'm not sure I have a lot of confidence in your vet's treatment of her diabetes.

A trip to the vet is probably a good idea anyway, just to rule out other issues, but in the meantime, what do you think about home testing? You can get set up with doing it fairly quickly-- most of us here use BG meters made for humans, so all the supplies can be gotten with a quick trip to Walmart or the drugstore (assuming that's possible for you with all that is going on; you have to keep yourself safe to keep Shinku safe, so order online if that's better for you).

The best meters are the ones that have the cheapest test strips , and if possible, take the smallest droplet of blood. For the poking to get the blood drop, you want to start with larger lancets (28 or 26 gauge).

That's the short term. In the longer term, it also sounds like she has some diabetic neuropathy (the odd walking), which is pretty typical for unregulated diabetics. It will get better when the diabetes gets more under control, and B12 supplements also help. [@Aleluia Grugru & Minnie just talked about that in more detail right as I was posting, thanks!]

Please let us know if you have any questions, we're here to help in any way we can!

 

THANKS Ale

 

I totally agree about the dose and home testing too!
I’m no expert on it, but I’m getting better at it and it gives you peace of mind because you have control since you know the BG levels are monitoring and can adjust the dose without depending on your vet. I share Nan’s concerns as well.

when it comes to neuropathy though, I am an expert now sadly, so we can talk more about to once Shinku is regulated. Good luck!

 

Thank you I apreciate the welcome. I have also suggested food allergies to my vet.

 

Shinku is on Lantus. 3 units twice a day 12 hours apart.

I have already been giving her zobaline for her paws to try to kick start the healing process with b12.

I have already repositioned the litter box to be very close. I suspect it is as you mentioned. It hurts her to move that far. I'll look into other placements.

Thank for the suggestion!!

 

Shinku has been using Lantus which has a good rate of remission I hear. She get 3 units twice a day 12 hours apart.

I was considering the at home monitoring. My vet hadn't suggested it yet, but I think with the social distancing and how scared she gets it would be easier and more accurate if I did it myself.

I was going to order one on amazon but deliveries are about a month out so I'm glad to hear about these BG human monitors O can use.

1. Is there a specific one that works better for cats?
2. Maybe a good resource for self teaching?
3. I feel like I should be tracking things. If there a good online template or app that is handy you might recommend?


Thanks so much!

I am feeling much but I'm just so worried about ketoacidosis or hyperglycemia.

 

Desirjaws I'm wondering if you are open to home testing/ There are a lot of people here that can help you learn and do it proficiently.
It really is the ONLY way to get Shinku feeling better quickly.
Im glad you posted 3U X a day. Thats a huge relief. whew

Trust me (even though we just met) this IS the best place to help you help Shinku. She is a cutie btw

Let us help you and also a LOT of people come here, desperate for answers, their Vets fail to give. I'm not putting down ALL vets. Mine was a dream. She came here at my suggestion and told me to follow the advice given here, we BOTH learned together!

YOU CAN DO THIS!
jeanne

 

I'm going to head to pick up a monitor today and figure this out. I'll post updates on her results again.

Thank you so much again!!

If you know a good monitor or tracking resource I'd love to have a recommendation.

 

Go the the "Suggestions Tech Support and Testing area on the main page its JUST above the health forum.
I would link you but for some reason I cant copy and paste here. (dont know why but its very frustrating)
Anyway theres a list of thread that can help with your questions like setting up a spreadsheet. That will help us guide you step by step.

 

many use ReiiOn ummm hey guys? other monitors?? There are a lot to choose from. And at the moment cant think of the otherd


RULE of thumb...get a monitor that uses the cheapest test strips!

 

For tracking, we use a particular template (you can see examples linked in most of our signatures), instructions here: FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

For testing tips, here's a collection from the Health Links/FAQ forum (some of the links may be old, but there's still a lot of good info here): Hometesting Links and Tips

With meters, I don't think we have a particular recommendation. Basically, it boils down to what works for you, which mostly boils down to the ease/expense of getting test strips. If you can find information about blood droplet size needed (I think there's a pdf guide floating around somewhere, I can't find it now), smaller is better.

Good luck! The most important testing tip I can give: treats, treats, treats! Bribery is your best tool .

 

The one most people here seem to use is Walmart’s ReliOn which is pretty affordable and so are the test strips, you’ll go through them really fast when you’re home testing. I’ve been using freestyle lite which is a middle of the range one price-wise but even that is getting expensive so I’m planning on switching to ReliOn. The great thing about Walmart’s Relion is you can pick it up at a Walmart near you, call first because you know how things are right now, but it will avoid the shipping waiting time. They’re both reliable human meters and here they’re used to evaluating human meter numbers.

good call on getting zobaline, which is right because you want the feline version that doesn’t have xylitol. Vitacost also sells a b12 that works for cats but it comes in capsules so you’d make to mix it in the food. Not an issue if kitty is eating well of course and this one is way more affordable. Just giving you options financially because times are tough Minnie was also on an antioxidant to help combat the oxidation caused by the extra glucose, but it wasn’t cheap and I can’t swear it worked since she was on everything at the same time. But if you’re interested, I can send you the info.
Last thing, I also got some cheap cat beds for Minnie at Ross and placed them over a pee pad so I knew if she peed on those I could wash and the pee pad would hold the urine so I wasn’t cleaning the wood floors multiple times a day.

 

I had a feeling Shinku wasn’t on 6 units twice a day thank god!

Just so you know, I did that too. I started her on the zobaline before she was regulated but you won’t really see any improvement until the diabetes is in check. It made me feel better though so it’s up to you. Minnie is on Lantus too. I’m partial because it works great for her but I do think it seems to be the insulin most recommended for cats. Where are you getting it from? These guys here have resources for better priced Lantus if you need it.

 

Hi and welcome. Didn't catch your own first name. Would you be willing to share that with us?

Many of the symptoms you describe, including the fur loss, greasy coat, lack of grooming, etc. fit a diabetic cat that is not regulated yet. It took time for your cat to become diabetic, it will take time for Shinku to get better. It's a slow and steady process. We'll help you all we can.

Would you help us a bit first? Would you setup some information in your User Id "signature" please. Takes about 1 minute to do that. Here are the instructions, and what we like to see, in this link >>>>> Editing your Signature, Profile, and Preferences

 

Ahhh Deb you are SO good at this!

 

Hello and welcome. Looks like others have covered a lot of the bases. Trying not to overwhelm you at first. There is a lot to learn in the beginning, but it does become easier - I promise.

While you are out shopping at Walmart (if you live in the US) or your local pharmacy, see if you can pick up some Ketostix or other ketones testing sticks. Those can be used to test for ketones, which is good if she is in high numbers. It means dipping the stick in the urine stream. More detail later.

Second thing, just a question, the vet foods you are feeding now, are they wet or dry food? Low carb wet or raw food is best for diabetics (well, all cats really), but we'll worry about that once you are home testing. It's dangerous to change the diet to a lower carb one if you aren't testing.

 

so are you Wendy

 

I’m going to guess Desiree. Let’s see if I’m right

 

She changed her username, so that was a good guess Ale.

We all add a little bit more information to Desiree with our replies.

Now, if she would get back to us, we can help more.

p.s. Desiree, one great way to let us know you have read our posts, is to click on the "Like" in the lower right hand corner.

 

Hi and welcome. I’m glad you are going to home test! The only way to keep you kitty safe.
Can you,tell us what you are feeding now? And how often?

 

I already took a peek at a few of the Lantus Threads they were very helpful!!!

 

I picked up a monitor today I'm gearing up for the first test!!

Currently on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal dry and wet for other issues she was having last year. Which I suspect was signs of diabetes. My vet recommended to not change the diet at first until I suggested the Royal Canin Glycobalance.

I give her a mix of the Glycobalance wet now and a blend of the of two dry to ease her in and keep an eye on her bowls as I transition.

I'm trying hard not to circumvent what my ver suggests but it is hard.

 

Was on Royal Canin Gastrointestinal dry and wet for other issues she was having last year. Which I suspect was signs of diabetes. My vet recommended to not change the diet at first until I suggested the Royal Canin Glycobalance last week.

I give her a mix of the Glycobalance wet now and a blend of the of two dry to ease her in and keep an eye on her bowls as I transition.

I was at almost 2 cups and a can a day because she was so ravenous and causing havoc every 2 hours without food.

She is calming down a bit. She is at about .75 a cup and 1 can a day.

 

Update: Her at home test was a 304 which dropped alot from her 419 last vet reading and she is more alert.

In the middle of the night she just took a wicked poop outside the litter box in my bedroom. It was softer and an off color and smelled so very very very terrible.

It was like the pops she took when I had to put her on gastrointestinal food.

I'm going to switch her back to her gastrointestinal food again since I'm pretty sure she was giving me a sign.

 

Hi! I can’t speak about the food. Others here will. What time was the test? Pre shot? Would be helpful to start a spreadsheet so we can all follow

was the poop off color a light pink? And is she able to go in and out of the litter box okay? It could be the neuropathy that caused the accident too

 

Hi. You come to the right place. 3 weeks ago, the health of my cat Monkey was declining rapidly, probably worse than Shinku. He lost like one pound per week. But after I received TONS of help here, Monkey is recovering quickly. Hope this can cheer you up.

I would like to add that vets may offer less than optimal solution. My vet give me Caninsulin (not the best insulin to use) and tell me to give only dry food. It is just not good advice.

 

Cats often have digestive upsets and changes in their bowel habits when they switch foods. That could be the cause of Shinku's "big smelly poops."

The gastrointestinal food is likely very high in carbs. Is there a way to see about another food for Shinku?

Even the glycobalance food isn't low enough in carbs for a diabetic cat.
Let's see if we can find a compromise food.
Many people successfully feed their cats with both diabetes and IBD a raw food.

How about trying something like that? Either pre-made, or make it yourself with raw meat and the needed supplements added to the meat.

 

D

Deb, would something like Hound & Gatos be an option as well?

 

btw, congrats on your first home test yay!!!

They’re less stressed at home so the numbers will be lower and higher at the vets office because of the stress

what state are you in? I can suggest a good raw food brand if you’re in CA

 

The Hounds & Gatos is good, except for the "Red Meat" flavor, which is a bit high in carbs at 12%. You want <=10% ideally.

Welcome to the "Vampire Club", on getting your first successful home test!

 

I just finished watching Van Helsing on Netflix I don’t think I want to be in any vampire club lol

 

Update:

I stopped the gycobalance switched up to slowly introducing the Tiki Cat Aloha Food. No grain, 13% crude protein. I still have to feed her the gastrointestinal dry in small amounts and wet but the combo seemed to stop her loose stools.

My last at home test had her glucose levels at 390. Which is a jump from the 304 I had days prior.

She for the past few days has been peeing outside the box more. In the closet, and next to the litter box all while still using the actual litter box.

I've been cleaning it up with my steam cleaner and nature's miracle enzyme based cleaners and spraying cat detourant spray for spots I want her to avoid peeing on.

I already use cat attract litter from Dr Eisley.

I have introduced many litter boxes in spot where she peed with ramps and that are shallow.

Put down foil and detourants on spots she previously peed.

She is still peeing in different places.

Lastly, she is still losing fur. She has a new patch on her toes that is particularly gnarly. The tuft of fur contains her skin in like it just peeled off.

It is definately not from grooming since she has stopped that.

See photo:

Any recommendations for the peeing, or the ideas what may be causing the fur loss?

 

Awww poor kitty. The only thing I can think of with the peeing outside the box is shes associating the box with pain. she could have a UTI. May need a trip to the Vets? The fur clumps, reminds me of a feral I use to feed. I think his was from fleas though. Hold on for more replies.
Give your baby some soft scritches for us, please and for you!

 

Agreed. You may have to rule out UTI. But if that’s not it, my advice is get yourself pee pads and place them under the spots where she’s peeing. I have hardwood floors and when Minnies neuropathy got worse and she was pretty much peeing wherever she happened to be laying down, I was cleaning floors with vinegar and baking soda multiple times a day. Then I had the brilliant idea of putting plastic bags under her bed and other spots but the pee would still sip through. Then one day I was just like, there’s gotta be a solution, it’s like house training a puppy and a light bulb went off, pee pads!!! If she’s still using the litter box, it’s likely not neuropathy but it could just be irregular peeing given how much water she’s drinking. Is the litter box full or empty when she doesn’t use it?

 

I planned to call my vet but I haven't noticed any tell tale signs of a UTI like any discomfort with her peeing or noises.

I actually have pee pads. I just didn't want to have to put them down.

The litter box is almost always clean since everyone in Ohio is Stay at Homed. Lol

 

It really could just be because of the diabetes and excessive drinking in which case it will go away once she’s well regulated

 

Quick update.

For future members who might suffer the same medical puzzle.

My cat Shinku suffered all the same signs that lead one to believe she has diabetes.

After months of failed diabetes management and numerous tests and expensive doctors visits. She has been diagnosed with Cushing's disease. She has enlarged adrenal glands which lead to a positive Cushing's Test.

She will begin Trilostane (Vetorl) to help manage her Cushing's enough to get another look at what they think might be a tumor on her gland, but it was too enlarged to be sure.

In any case.

All the signs of diabetes plus fragile skin/hair loss might lead to a secondary issue or once Cushing's is managed will drop glucose levels and leave her non diabetic but with Cushings.

It is a rare disease and not often checked for
It is not curable and usually results in needing surgery and life long treatment.

This community has been wonderful!! Thanks for all the help and support.

I'll post once more with an outcome in a few months when things normalize for her.

Hopefully one day a combo Cushing's Diabetic kitten comes through here and needs a little help and can find this thread!!

 

Cushing's in cats is MUCH rarer than acromegaly or IAA (Insulin Auto Antibodies).

Sorry to hear that Shink has Cushing's. Hope she gets better with treatment.

We do have an ISG (Insulin Support Group) for Acromegaly, IAA & Cushing's cats. Maybe check it out, as there may be some useful information for you there. We've had several Cushing's cats here, several in the last year.
Acromegaly / IAA / Cushings Cats