Newly Diagnosed Diabetic

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by MustLuvCats, Dec 29, 2012.

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  1. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi, my 9 yr old cat Rylee has just been diagnosed with diabetes :(....Since I am afraid to monitor her when she initially gets her insulin dosing she is going to be hospitalized with glucose curve monitoring. Does anyone have any other ideas/suggestions that maybe could ease my fears and I will monitor her at home. As with everyone else who gets this diagnosis for their beloved pet I am devasted, confused and don't know what to do. Any help will be appreciated.

    Thanks!!
     
  2. Michelle & Dusty

    Michelle & Dusty Member

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    Nov 30, 2012
    Welcome to the board! I'm a relative newbie here. My cat - Dusty - was diagnosed at the beginning of December and has been receiving treatment for a month. Like you, I was pretty overwhelmed, frightened, and unsure of my own abilities. Just to offer a bit of reassurance - it does get easier. Testing has become quick and easy - a process that takes less than a minute usually. It took about a week to get used to the injections of insulin, but that, too, has become part of the routine. For me personally, the hardest part is dealing with the treatment protocol and knowing what to dose, when to increase, when to decrease, and the like. Fortunately, there are real pros on the board who are happy to answer whatever questions we newbies throw at them...so even that is pretty manageable. :smile:

    Is everything kittens and roses at this point? Dear lord, no. Indeed I've spent much of today worried that Dusty is not drinking enough, not eating enough, too sluggish, too jittery, too much of all sorts of things. When I get like this (i.e. convinced that everything is wrong with Dusty all at the same time), I go reread this: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671
    It helps, a bit.

    Mostly, though, I just wanted to say welcome and to let you know that this is scary and can lead to a lot of anxiety and worry. But it also gets better. You get into routines. Those things that seemed impossible at first become something you can do half asleep. And, when you're worried or confused or have a question you're almost embarrassed to have to ask, know that this is a great board filled with truly lovely people who are here to help you out. Good luck!
     
  3. Michelle & Dusty

    Michelle & Dusty Member

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    Nov 30, 2012
    Oh! Meant to add some tips for testing:

    - Get some of her favorite (low carb!) treats and give her one after every attempt at testing.
    - Warm her ear before you test (truly - it helps SO much).
    - If you have trouble getting the blood to bead up, think about putting a small bit of vaseline or neosporin on the ear (then wipe it off, so there's just a sheen of it) before you prick it. And don't worry - there aren't as many nerve endings on the ears as on our fingers...pricking them is less painful than pricking our fingers. All cats are different, but what bothers Dusty most isn't the prick but is, instead, when I need to actually hold her for the test.
    - I use a folded up tissue and hold it against the other side of her ear. It makes it a bit more sturdy and then I use it to put pressure on the ear after getting the blood.
    - About that -- make sure you put pressure on the ear after getting the blood (just pinch it between some tissue) to minimize bruising and scabbing.

    And don't worry if you get it wrong initially. Everyone here does. It's a lot to remember (and all the while trying to wrangle a wriggly cat!). Just keep at it. It gets easier. For me, it got easier within a couple of days. Dusty got used to it (the treats helped immensely), I got used to it. and her ears got easier to prick.
     
  4. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Dusty is right, with practice home testing gets very routine. My cats don't love it, but they are used to it and they like the treats afterward.

    We recommend lantus or levemir as the best insulin for cats to potentially get them into remission so be sure to ask your vet about those.

    The problem with having a curve done at the vet is that your cat may be very stressed and so their Blood glucose could be higher there than at home. The vet may base his insulin dose on that , but of course as soon as you get home, that dose can be too much. Since you are doing home testing do you should be able to spot if that's the case. I would ask your vet about his experiences with this and cat diabetes in general.

    And ask about transitioning to wet/canned food, but you definately don't want to do that unless you home test. Walmart relion is a good and cheap meter choice in the US I hear.

    Anyway good luck at the vet and please post when you get home, ideally before you start shooting so we can advise.. Meanwhile if you read through the stickies that should help, it's a lot to take in at one time so let us know if you have questions.
     
  5. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Thank you for your responses, I surely appreciate all the help I can get. So here goes my 1st question. Would the recommended course treatment be to start at home and not in the hospital? I am so afraid of something going wrong with dosing and I would freak out if something start happening to her. She will be very stressed in the hospital for sure. She was there the other day and came home covered in dandruff from her stress. If I start this off at home what would I be doing and looking for?

    At this time she is scheduled to go in on Thursday to begin her insulin and the curve testing so I have some time to decide.

    Thanks again!!
     
  6. Michelle & Dusty

    Michelle & Dusty Member

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    Nov 30, 2012
    If possible, I'd go pick up a meter and some test strips tomorrow and see how both you and she do with testing. If, after a couple of days, you are able to test with some ease, then I'd suggest running the curve yourself.

    If that happens, you might still want to go into your vet to learn how to inject Rylee. The vet showed me and I had one practice round with saline. I then injected Dusty with her first dose of insulin at the vet with her watching to make sure I did everything correctly. (That was a Friday afternoon and I live in a town without an emergency vet. That weekend was a bit of a nail-biter!)

    Do you know what insulin you'll be using? As Wendy said, Lantus and Levemir are two recommended types. I use Lantus and Dusty seems to handle it pretty well. That said, once you find out what insulin you'll be using, you might repost and ask about the dosing protocol for that particular insulin. (Here's the protocol for Lantus and Levemir: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 ...it'll give you a sense of what dosing to start with.) Let me reiterate, though, that there are people who have been doing this for much longer than I who will be able to chime in with proper advice about this. :smile:
     
  7. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Rylee will be getting Lantus for her meds. I told vet today I didn't think I could handle the first intial dosings out of fear of what might happen to her when she first gets insulin. However this site has given me some hope that maybe I can do it. I will talk to the vet again Monday armed with better questions. I was just in emotional shock when she first told me that I couldn't ask the right questions and of course didn't know really what the right questions were.

    I have also read that I don't have to give her diabetic cat food? I really dislike most food manufactures out there because of all the nasty stuff they put in the cat food. Right now she eats Blue Buffalo but from what I am reading I can just give her a regular low carb/hi protein diet made by someone better than Royal Canin or Purina or something? Any advice there?

    Rylee and I can't thank you enough for your advice.
     
  8. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    A great site is catinfo.org and there is food listing there of info gathered and compiled by Dr. Lisa Pierson, listing the foods with the carb % .... look for foods under 10% for sure but around 5% is even better. The vet's rx food is not great quality and most cats don't like it. The price is crazy too.
    So long as you stick with a low carb wet food, you are fine. Many people feed fancy feast or friskies pates, but check the list to find the foods you are feeding now.... they may be just fine.
    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food%20Char ... -22-12.pdf
     
  9. Denise & Honey

    Denise & Honey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    hi
    just remember that testing and giving insulin is good for your cat - you are actively helping Rylee feel better and be healthier.

    I have another cat with hyperthyroidism and its very different as I have to give meds but then wait 4 weeks before I can take him back to the vet to be tested to see where his levels are.
    With Honey (my diabetic), I know how she is simply by doing a glucose test and I have changed her insulin dose based on that and on recommendations from this site.
    Knowledge is power!

    Also, it really doesn't hurt the cat - for testing, initially, they don't like being confined while you get blood but you can test when they are asleep and there is NO reaction. The same with the insulin - if Honey is eating, she doesn't even notice the shot.

    Take a deep breath and tell yourself that you can do it!
     
  10. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

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    Dec 7, 2012
    Hello. My Chester was just diagnosed a few weeks ago, and I'm very new to this as well. Diabetes is big and scary and it can be overwhelming.
    Read this - it can help.

    I find home testing pretty easy, and it makes me a lot more comfortable with everything that's going on. I have both an AlphaTrak2 pet meter and an Arkray Glucocard Vital human meter. I've heard really good things around here about the Relion Confirm and Micro variety testers as well. The strips just suck up the blood and you only need a tiny drop. I don't even use the lancet device - our vet tech taught me how to free-hand the lancet poke and there's no scary "click" up by Chester's ear. He doesn't like it, but he's quick to learn that a poke in the ear means a treat. I call him and he runs over to me and waits while I get all the testing stuff ready. When we're done with the test, I give him a treat. Petsmart carries freeze-dried chicken and shrimp treats that he just loves. I test him before each shot to make sure it's safe for him to get insulin and that makes me feel much less afraid of what I'm doing. And if he's acting weird between shots, I can test him then too. I don't like poking him, but I like worrying even less.

    Insulin shots are pretty easy, too. They aren't half as scary as I thought they would be. I just pinch up a fold of skin, stick in the needle and push the plunger down. I think he feels me tugging on his skin more than he does the needle. The needles are really small so there's not much to feel. I got a needle clipper, and I put all used syringes and lancets in an old laundry detergent bottle.

    I keep track of Chester's numbers in a spreadsheet I set up on Google Drive, and in an app called OnTrack I was able to get for my smartphone.

    I don't like turning Chester into a pincushion kitty, but It's what I have to do to take care of him. I want him to be well and have a long, healthy life so I have to get used to doing all these things. You can do it!!! It's big and it's scary and it's a lot to think about and keep track of, but you can do it. There are a whole lot of people here to help you and sit with you while you learn it all. They've been very helpful to me.
     
  11. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Good Morning..boy it's awesome to see all the replies and I feel my fears going away (a little) :) I am wondering if someone can tell me what to expect when I first being giving insulin at home vs. having Rylee stay in the hospital to monitor. My biggest fear is giving her insulin and causing grave harm and not being able to do anything about it at the moment. I want to save as much money as possible.

    One more question, can anyone recommend a good diet other than prescription diet for diabetes? I currently feed Blue Buffalo but was told to change to a diabetic prescription diet...blech!!

    Thank you!!
     
  12. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

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    Dec 7, 2012
    Actually, I've been told that you don't need a prescription diet at all. All you really need to do is feed food that is low in carbohydrates. Here is some information on cat food options. Another useful site is here. Apparently wet/canned food is best for all cats, although if you have dry-food addicts or other limitations (such as money or cat family cooperation) there are some "better than others" dry foods out there as well, like Wellness CORE. If you needed to really budget, Friskies pate and Fancy Feast pate are good for diabetic cats.

    Here is some good info on hypoglycemia. That's the biggest thing I'm afraid of with giving insulin. From what I've read here, you test their blood before shooting. If you're new to the process (like I am), you DON'T give them a shot if their blood sugar is below 200. If they're over 200, then you give them their dose. You can always measure their BG at any time in the middle of the cycle. I usually feed Chester when I give him his shot, and then again about halfway between shots. He takes Lantus, which seems to "kick in" after about six hours (from what I've read and the one curve I've done).

    We started insulin on the weekend so both my husband and I could be home all day with Chester. I tested his BG, saw it was high enough to shoot (he runs really high), held my breath and gave him his shot. Nothing happened. It was a VERY uneventful day! I kept watching him, but he was just fine. We're two weeks in and we haven't had any issues yet. Our vet started us at a low dose and we're going to increase slowly to minimize any problems. If anything, Chester seems to be feeling better - more playful, more energy for getting in trouble. We do the blood glucose curve testing at home and that's saved us a bunch of money with the vet. To do that, we just tested every two hours for the whole twelve hours between shots. Keep track of it all, show it to the vet. Same data they would have gotten, except that he was home on the comfy couch instead of a cage at the vet's office.
     
  13. Good news! You don't need a prescription diet. The best thing for a diabetic cat to eat is low carb canned food. Here's a link to a recently updated chart that lists many "off the shelf" brands and flavors that are perfectly fine to feed. All but a few of us here use non-prescription food, and thousands of cats have done perfectly fine with it. The two most popular brands here are probably Friskees (pate variety only) and Fancy Feast (classic flavors). Look at the "Calorie %" info, and in particular the "C" column. That would be the % of calories from carbohyrates. Anything under 10% is good, and the lower the better.
    http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

    Maybe the best way for you to get a feel for what treating diabetes is like is to watch a couple of videos.
    Here's a youtube video on how to home test:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

    And here is one for how to give the insulin injections:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_3TLtN8XYo

    If you search youtube for "feline diabetes" there's a lot more videos you can watch.

    Carl
     
  14. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    if you tell us where you are located, there may be a member close by who can help you in person.

    if you relate your cat to a human, humans don't stay in the hospital to get tested and regulated. they are taught how to test and inject insulin and told to go home and do it there. it's the same for a cat. the best way to determine proper dose is testing at home where the cat is most comfortable and relaxed. unfortunately the vet's office is not a place a cat can be relaxed and the bg levels can be artificially inflated by as much as 100 points which would lead the vet to give a dose of insulin that may not be correct.

    if you are willing to home test, we can help you and help you ensure that you keep your baby safe while giving insulin.
     
  15. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello,

    I know that you're anxious about giving insulin. And I can remember so clearly what those early days were like with my own cat. But even after just a few insulin shots I found I was starting to take it all 'in my stride'. And you will too.

    Hometesting will become your best friend and ally in this 'sugar dance'. It will enable you to understand exactly what insulin is doing in your cat's system. And if you are comfortable with testing you can certainly do your cat's blood glucose curves at home. The blood glucose numbers will be more accurate and your cat will be less stressed.

    However...if you really don't feel that you are able to test then maybe having the cat at the vet initially would be the better option for you, since someone will have to monitor your cat, and that person will either be you or your vet...

    I know this situation is a bit scary. All of us have been where you are now. But I really think you CAN do this. Honestly, I do. And if you do decide to, then we will be here cheering and supporting you every step of the way. (But if you don't feel you can do it, we'll be here anyway... ;-) ) You are among friends here...
     
  16. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    I am overwhelmed with gratitude with all your responses. I really want to try it at home because Rylee (like most cats) doesn't wanna be outside their comfort zone. I live in Southern California (Riverside County). If there is anyone in this area that would be willing to be mine and Rylee's mentor we would be very appreciative.

    Thank you!!!
     
  17. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    we do have lots of people in CA, let's see if we can find some close to you.
     
  18. Denise & Honey

    Denise & Honey Well-Known Member

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    Oct 12, 2012
    I'm in San Jose, so too far north to see you in person, but I am on late at night if you ever need any help at that time.
    There's definitely 2-3 people in Southern CA so I'm sure someone can help more.
     
  19. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    It's the pesty newbie again...how do I figure out the carbs in canned cat food when it doesn't state it??
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    This link here should have all the carbs in most canned foods, let us know if yours isn't in here

     
  21. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    thanks!!...I used Blue Buffalo and always thought it was one of the best but appears it might not be :(
     
  22. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Here are easy food shopping lists you can print out:

    Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
    List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84885
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=81687
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84512

    Here are the more extensive food charts:

    Dr. Lisa's new food chart http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf
    Binky's canned food charts
    Pet Food Nutritional Values list
    Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values

    Look for foods under 10% carbs on the above four charts.

    Low carb treats: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

    Lantus is a good insulin to use :smile: Make sure to only use U100 insulin syringes. The most ideal ones to use are 3/10 cc (30 unit) with half unit markings. We recommend starting at no more than 1 unit twice a day. You can even do just 0.5 units twice a day if you have the half unit marked insulin syringes. Even if the vet says to start at 2 or 3 units (or more) twice a day, it is much safer for your cat to start at a very low dose than to start too high and risk a hypo.

    Hometesting is how you can prevent most hypo from happening, and if one does occur, you can easily monitor blood glucose levels while giving the appropriate treatment. You don't need the vet's permission to test at home nor do you need an expensive pet blood gluocse meter such as the AlphaTrak. Many people here use a Human diabetic blood glucose meter.
     
  23. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    once you start using insulin, you will want to have some high carb canned food - fancy feast gravy lovers is perfect for this purpose -

    my suggestion when you get the food - take a sharpie and mark the carb percentage on the can. this will make it easier for you when deciding which food to serve.
     
  24. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Re calculating the carb pecentage in foods, here is a super little online calculator. You just enter the numbers from the can and - hey presto! - it calculates the percentage of calories from carbs for you! :smile:
    http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html
     
  25. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    hey there, whereabouts in Riverside Co. are you? I'm here and so are Misty & Bast if you're around Riverside/Corona. Misty was out of town for the holidays, not sure if she's back yet though. I can help you learn how to hometest and give shots if you're near. normally I'm not available during the week due to work but we're off today and tomorrow because of the holiday.
     
  26. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Ok so I just did a BG for the 1st time by myself. LynnLee taught me and I struggled earlier today but finally got it. So Rylee ate at 8 PM and got her 1.5 of Lantus at 8:30 and is testing at 166 at 9:30. Is that good???

    Thanks!!!
     
  27. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, that's a great first test number!

    Now that you can test, it's time to set up your spreadsheet and track your tests. This way you can see for yourself how well he is doing (and we can see too). It's also how we can help guide you with dosing, etc.

    viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 - here are the step by step instructions on how to set up the spreadsheet
     
  28. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Congrats on that first test, Stephenie! :smile:
     
  29. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Thanks guys, I will start tracking. Any guidelines on testing & tracking???
     
  30. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    For tracking, I would use the spreadsheet instructions that Hillary and Maui provided. The most important shots are the pre-shot numbers (called AMPS and PMPS) and the nadir, which is generally around +5 to +7 hours after a shot. Since we all still have lives outside in the real world, you're not necessarily going to be able to get nadir testing in every cycle, but try to get in testing around nadir time at least once a day, if possible. Basically, the more testing, the better...but take that with a grain of salt since Michelangelo and I are test-a-holics. If I'm not wanting to test him every hour, then he's reminding me to test him! :lol:

    On top of that, you want to do weekly "curves," where you try to get numbers at least every two hours throughout the week (i.e. Monday, you get +4 and +6 tests, Tuesday, you get +2 and +8 tests in, etc...). I'm not sure how often you'll want to do a proper curve test (i.e. one 12-hour period where you test every two hours), but depending on how often you test, that might not even be necessary. I'll let someone else more knowledgeable offer advice about that.

    I also suggest you start posting over on the Lantus board. If you check there, you can see some examples of daily Lantus "condos" (daily updates on your cat's numbers and general health and well-being). It's a really active board and there are always people on who can answer any question or emergency you might have.
     
  31. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    so you are not overwhelmed with the amount of testing suggested - you don't have to do a curve. it is a suggestion to help gather data, but not necessary.

    if you look at Maui's spreadsheet (ss) that is attached to my signature, you will see that I never did a curve, I did test before each shot and at different times throughout the cycle. so, you can start off testing when you can - before shooting insulin, before leaving the house for day, before going to bed, if you wake up in middle of night, etc.

    the more tests you collect, the more data you collect and ways to see how the insulin is working.
     
  32. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Ok guys, need some help. So today I started testing Rylee just for learning purposes. She started off at 190 3 hrs after shot, then 2.5 hrs after that she was 104 and at 5:30 she is 87. She is due to eat at 8 pm and have her 2nd injection. Is this normal???

    Thanks!!
     
  33. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    What time are you at now - how long is it till her shot is due ?
     
  34. I think this is right?
    AMPS (not tested) (8 AM)
    +3 190
    +5.5 104
    +9.5 87
    PMPS (8 PM)

    Is this normal? It would help to know what she tested at when you gave the morning shot. It depends on how high she was when she started the cycle. It looks like her nadir happened sometime between the 104 and the 87, but not certain. Overall, the numbers look good to me though.

    Can you test about an hour before her nighttime shot which would be +11? And then again at shot time? It would be good to figure out that the number is coming up by shot time.

    Carl

    Edit to add - It looks like by the timing of your posts, you're in the Pacific time zone?
     
  35. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Thanks for popping over Carl. I was just typing a post for LL TR.. Haven't heard back so not sure what's going on or if she shot or what...
     
  36. Hi Wendy,
    It looks like her shot time would be 11pm eastern, but I'm hoping she pops back in and verifies that.

    Carl
     
  37. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    yes, stephenie is pacific time and it is currently 6:51 pm here so her shot time would be roughly 1 hour from now.
     
  38. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi guys, just got off phone with Lynnlee and she set me straight. I will test Rylee shortly after she eats to see what her numbers are then go from there. I rather be safe with no shot then giving a shot and putting Rylee at risk. Must be a reason why I decided to test her several times today

    Be back soon :)
     
  39. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    hey there, just an update. i called stephenie. she's got a lot going on at home tonight so that's why she hasn't been back. one of her dogs had surgery today and she's trying to get that dog settled back in at home so that's why she hasn't been back on board.

    i'm leaving work now and will be out of touch for probably at least an hour so what i told her was she needed to test before giving insulin and she can either come back to the board because you guys are watching for word from her or if Rylee tests anywhere near 100 tonight, to skip would be safer, if she's anywhere near 200, she could shoot, if she's prepared to do some night time testing and i actually told her i wouldn't do 1.5 units even near the 200, maybe 1 was all. but given what she's dealing with tonight, skipping would be the safest best if Rylee is under 200.
     
  40. Thank you LynnLee for the update and the info. I've got this thread "subscribed" so I'll be around when Stephanie posts.

    Carl
     
  41. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

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    Dec 29, 2012
    Great, Rylee won't let me test her, she is being uncooperative. Now what, just skip shot???
     
  42. Yes, if you can't get a test, your choices would be to skip, or keep trying and shoot later. The best way I've seen someone state it here is "if you shoot without testing, that's like driving down the freeway with a bag over your head." Safety first.

    Carl
     
  43. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi Carl, thanks so much and I surely wouldn't drive the freeway with a bag over my head :) She has been good all day with testing but now won't settle down. So what if I do test her like in an hr and she is over 200 and she ate 1.5 hrs ago, is it still ok to skip or should I give her shot?

    Thanks for watching out for me :)
     
  44. If she ate, then it's likely that her BG will have gone up from eating, so there's no way of knowing how much is "food" vs. how much is just her going up. If you can get a test within 20 minutes of eating, it's most likely "natural" and not food-induced.

    I should have said "if you wait, you need to withhold her food" as part of what I posted. Here they call it "stalling". When you're on the fence about shooting or not because she's right at the line where you shoot or skip, you can wait 20 or 30 minutes, test again, and then feed and shoot if the number is above your "line in the sand".
    When you do that, whether it is 30 minutes or two hours later, keep in mind that it will affect your shot time for the next shot, which should be 12 hours beyond "this shot". That's the part of the equation that many people don't like, or can't do. If it's going to mess up your schedule tomorrow by shooting late today, it can make more sense to skip a shot.

    Carl
     
  45. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I finally got her to cooperate and she is 165, so do I shoot or wait till tomorrow??
     
  46. I vote "skip". Especially after reading what LynnLee said earlier:
    But as always it's your call. Sounds like you had a fairly stressful day?

    Carl
     
  47. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Oh my goodness yes today has been stressful. Work is busy, my pitty had a mast cell tumor removed today and is a whiny baby. I have too many dogs :) and I have to separate the pitty from everyone due to surgery and I have a 3 legged dog that only likes certain dogs so she has to be separated and it goes on and on. My husband is away today so I am taking care of the whiny pitty, keeping dogs separate all over the house and trying to test Rylee. I just want to go to bed :) This diabetes diagnosis was so stressful at first but this board and Lynnlee have been so helpful that I am so much as ease now...unless kitty doesn't cooperate...I pray for a restful night :)
     
  48. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hey, we're home now :) i vote skip. sounds like once your head hits the pillow you'll be out for the night so it would probably be safer to skip then count on being able to wake up and test her a couple times tonight.
     
  49. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hello, sounds like a very stressful day, I hope you managed to get a good nights sleep. If you did skip you may end up with wonky blood glucose levels for a couple of days FYI.

    Anyway sounds like you were having testing problems, do you test on the ear or paw pad?
    It's always an idea to give them a low carb treat afterward to make it more of a pleasant experience. Other testing tips can be found here:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113
     
  50. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Good Morning :)

    So no shot last night and this morning before feeding Rylee was 178. That's good news!!! Bad news is my lancet pen lost it's release tab thingy so I had to poke her with lancet to obtain reading.

    So off to feed and test later...I feel like an animal nurse...between Rylee and one of my dog's had surgery yesterday. He slept for about 5 hrs straight then the other dogs woke us up. Not used to being up at 5 AM and have been for last 3 days :(

    Have a nice day everyone :)
     
  51. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hey there, wow, that's a good number for no insulin for 24 hours now. and she's only been on insulin for a week. :)
     
  52. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Tell me about it, I have 2 diabetic cats, 1 neurotic cat and 2 elderly rabbits with arthritis and cataracts.

    I never use the lancet device because I like to control of depth and angle by just using the lancet on its own by hand (like quite a few people on this forum). Plus the click would freak my cats out.
     
  53. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Very tired here and think this might be a question I have asked already of someone...so Rylee is testing 104 2 hrs after shot. So tonight when it's time to feed her do I test her before or after to determine her shot status?? Thanks!!

    Tomorrow she goes in for another curve, can't wait to give the vet this info.

    BTW - will be last curve done at vet since I am a "pro" at testing now :)
     
  54. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    as long as you test her within about 15 minutes of eating, you can test her after she eats if that works good for you. i know she is excited and a little wiggly when she's hungry :) . fwiw, you can test her before eating too. that's what i have to do otherwise Mousie won't sit still for her test. she knows if she gets her pokeys then she gets food so she cooperates. if she has her food first, she'd never get in her spot for her pokeys :)

    since you have a 104 at +2 (two hours after the last shot), you'll want to test again in a couple hours to see where she's at by the way
     
  55. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    So Rylee is at the vet having her last curve done there. From now on I will be doing it. Her Lantus is going to be reduced from 1.5ML to 1ML 2x day.

    Question on glucometer. Vet said only use animal glucometer, that people one won't give proper readings. Does anyone disagree and do you have proof to back it up. animal glucometer strips are so expensive.

    Thanks!!
     
  56. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    My vet said the same thing, but I found I just can't afford the pet strips all the time. I have a human glucometer (Arkray Glucocard Vital) too and it seems to do just fine. The numbers are pretty similar. I just use the vital most times and then use the AlphaTrak2 (pet meter) for official vet BG curves, or if I have questions about any test results. That way, the vet gets numbers from the meter she prefers and I have a solution I can afford on a regular basis. It also means that I can take the human monitor if we ever take Chester traveling. It was a LOT cheaper than the pet meter and I won't mind so much if I forget or lose it. LOTS of people here use the human meters, so they must work pretty well.
     
  57. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    MbMinx

    How far off is the human one from the alpha track?? and thank you for your response :)...I can't wait to change Rylee from that nasty prescription food to something better
     
  58. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    If you check my signature, I have a link to Chester's spreadsheet. If you scroll to the bottom of the spreadsheet, there's a tab for last year's data. you can see about halfway through where I switched meters. The numbers seem to line up about the same. I have heard that the AlphaTrak2 reads a little bit (maybe 30 points?) higher than the human meters. It doesn't really work to compare them directly - meters only have to be accurate within 20% of the "real" number. When his BG is sitting at around 500, that could be a variance of as much as 100 points (!!!!). Both meters tend to test closer to each other than that 20% margin of error.

    I'll be doing another curve this weekend, so I'll be dusting off the AlphaTrak2. We'll have some more numbers to compare!
     
  59. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    There are cat-specific reference numbers to use with a human glucometer. See this Room & Rand article Dosing protocol for cats on glargine or detemir using daily home monitoring of blood glucose concentrations to adjust insulin dose At the low end, the devices differ by about 30 points,
    Test values are plus or minus the 20% the FDA allows.
    values -> - to + 20%
    50 -> 40 to 60
    100 -> 80 to 120
    200 -> 160 to 240
    300 -> 240 to 360
     
  60. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Thanks MbMinx and BJM, I will read up on this info. I really can't afford the Alpha Trak strips.

    Rylee got dropped to .5 units of lantus, she has been on 1.5 for the last week but her numbers are too low now. The vet warned me they might spike again as her body continues to adjust to feeling better and using her sugars properly (I think I got that right)...we will see.

    Stay tuned, oh and BTW, can someone point me in the direction of the spreadsheets to use. I see everyone's sheets but don't know how to get to a fresh one to start my own tracking
     
  61. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Hey how do you upload your pictures??? I wanted to put up a pic of Rylee. I am pretty computer savvy as I work on one all day long but this board isn't very user friendly
     
  62. When you're posting a message, below the box there's a tab that says Upload attachment? Click that and you'll get prompted to "choose file". It just opens up a browse window. Locate your pic on your pc, click once on it, and the filename should get selected. Then hit the "add the file" button.
    Next, click once back in your message window to make sure the cursor is where you want to pic to go in your message, and finally, click on the button that says "place inline".
    That should put the file name into your message with the [attachment] filename.. [/attachment] code in it.
    You can hit preview to check if it works before hitting submit.
    There is a max size limit of 800 x 600 pixels for pics.
    Carl
     
  63. If you're talking about the small avatar pic to the right under our usernames...
    You do that in your control panel. On the profile tab, you'll find Edit Avatar as a choice. The process is about the same, you get prompted to browse and find the pic. The big difference is that it can't be larger than 90 x 90 pixels, so you need a photo editor to reduce it that small, then save it to your hard drive. If the file is too large, you'll get an error message telling you that.
    Carl
     
  64. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Many people here use the Walmart Relion as it seems reliable and fairly accurate and the strips are cheap.
     
  65. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    fwiw, i had used the freestyle flash since Mousie was diagnosed back in 2006 and never had a problem with it. when i took my foster kitty/now adopted kitty in for labwork a few months back my vet thought maybe it was reading a bit high because her labwork showed a fairly lower number than my meter readings had for him. so i got the relion prime and started using it. figured the flash might be wearing out since it was 6 yrs old and plus the good strips for it were getting harder and harder to find. the relion prime actually runs spot on with what the vet gets on her labwork so we've stuck with it ever since

    on a side note, how are you liking this weather? brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
     
  66. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Today Rylee's numbers are:

    8 am feed breakfast
    8:10 - 160 BG (no insulin)...she didn't get insulin last night either and she was 124 1 hr after eating
    10:10 - 238 BG
    1:15 - 171 BG

    so can anyone tell me what they think is going on here?? She hasn't had insulin since yesterday morning.

    Thanks!!
     
  67. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    well you are just starting so this may take a while, but it looks like the food change has helped tremendously and she has a really good chance of going into remission (otj).
     
  68. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    The vet wants me to check her urine with urine strips for the upcoming week then go back to doing the BG's...any thoughts on the urine strips???

    Rylee's last read was 195 earlier this afternoon, the vet said stop the BG's until end of next week and also no insulin. Said Rylee is trying to regulate herself and she wants to see how she does.
     
  69. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Lynnlee I am not liking this weather. Too dang cold!!! So what are your thoughts on Rylee's situation??
     
  70. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    The urine strips will tell you if her blood glucose is high enough to spill over into her urine. This usually happens if their blood glucose goes over about 180 or so.

    A normal cat is 50-130, going up to maybe 150 after a meal. Usually on this forum they don't do a trial until the cat is in normal numbers for a week while the dose has been gradually reduced to less than 0.1units. Rylee is a higher than this right now and so you may find you need to put her back on the insulin if she can't sustain it.

    Why doesn't the vet want you doing BG tests during the no insulin trial? It will give you a good idea of how she is trending..
     
  71. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Honestly, I do think she needs insulin, not a lot, and probably not for a long time. But I do think she needs it. Have you visited the Lantus forum yet? The people there will be happy to help you figure out the correct dose and help you monitor what is going on.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9
     
  72. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Thank you Hillary, I did go there and post.

    This is a confusing disease.

    Will see what happens over this next week

    Thanks!!
     
  73. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hey there, sorry i didn't post back yesterday. time is getting short with my 19 yr old i told you about so been spending time with him and on top of it, another one has decided to catch a cold or something this weekend so having to keep him separated from the rest and take care of him :)

    anyhoo, yeah, i think Rylee needs insulin too. like hillary said, not much, but some and probably for a short while so i don't think i'd take it away from her completely for a week in all honesty.
     
  74. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi Lynnlee, my thoughts are with you and your old kitty. Hope both of you are holding up ok

    So what should I do be doing, the vet has her off for this week. Maybe I should do another curve tomorrow and she how she is holding up instead of waiting till Friday
     
  75. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I need it spelled out for me please and thank!!
     
  76. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    if you want to do a modified curve tomorrow, there is nothing wrong with that. I don't think you need to do a full curve which is testing every 2 hours over 12 hours.

    how about testing

    amps
    +2
    +6
    +9
    pmps

    and of course if you want you could test more often than that.
     
  77. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    amps is AM pre shot right?? How do I know how much to give her of her insulin
     
  78. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    how about trying 0.5 unit.

    also you may want to go to the lantus forum as I suggested previously, and ask the folks there what dose they recommend.

    AMPS = morning pre shot
    PMPS = evening pre shot
    AMBG = morning BG (at shot time but no shot given)
    PMBG = evening BG (at shot time but no shot given)

    +2,+4+6 = the hours after the AMPS or PMPS

    This is how we tell time on the board - this alleviates the concern about time zones and you saying well I tested and shot at 8am, etc. - as your 8 am is different from my 8 am. make sense?
     
  79. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    hi hillary

    this helps alot however I didnt' see till just now and didn't give her a shot....she tested 190 right after morning feed

    should i wait till tomorrow now?? Don't want to do it tonight in case she goes too low...that's my biggest fear is her tanking and me freakin
     
  80. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Are you getting more than one test per day or cycle in? I don't see a spreadsheet, have you started one?
    IF you have one, can you post it, attach it to your signature, so it shows up on your posts. And you may want to visit the lantus forum and get more guidance from the people there.

    It is up to you whether you give her insulin or not. Will you be home/awake to get spot checks in?

    If this were my cat, I would give insulin and get spot tests in, just to better understand how it is working. But that is me.
     
  81. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I think she is already posting on the lantus forum. i would recommend she continue to do that and ask questions in there since she should be posting in there regularly if not daily - put the (?) beside the condo name.
     
  82. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Great, since you are posting in Lantus, please disregard my previous post and ask your questions there, where it will get quick attention and the people who know lantus best can help you.
     
  83. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi guys, I did start with the Lantus board the other day. I thought I was only posting there but maybe got mixed up. I will work on a spreadsheet tomorrow. I am still not giving her the injections, I am testing her 3x daily per my vet instructions and will most likely start up again Friday at a lower dose. I still need you guys' advice but was becoming overwhelmed with all the info and so unsure what to do that it was making me doubt everything going on. Please don't give up on us :smile:
     
  84. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I sent you a PM with a spreadsheet attached as a starting point.. did you get it?
     
  85. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hi there, how's it going..? We are thinking about you guys!
    Wendy
     
  86. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Hi Wendy, sent you a PM and did my spreadsheet!!!....not sure where vet is going with treatment but I assume shortly Rylee will be put back on insulin since her numbers are rising without
     
  87. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    BTW how do I get my sheet to just read "Rylee"
     
  88. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  89. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Remove the spaces from the following and put the web address in where it says webaddress.

    [ u r l = webaddress ] Rylee[ / u r l ]
     
  90. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  91. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    I am retarded because I can't get this to work :(
     
  92. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  93. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

    this is what it looks like

    so after the html I put "Rylee" or do I put "] Rylee[ / u r l ]"

    Dang this isn't easy, I would rather give a shot of insulin :)
     
  94. ] Rylee[ / u r l ]

    I think.
    Carl
     
  95. MustLuvCats

    MustLuvCats Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Carl, am I putting the actual letters "url" or posting the my google url with Rylee's sheet in it
     
  96. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    The tag for a link has 2 parts, 1 to start it and 1 to end it
    If you click on the URL button above, you will see these 2 tags (without spaces - I put them in so you can see what is entered).
    [ u r l ] [ / u r l ]

    The text you want displayed goes between the 2 tags (without the spaces)
    [ u r l ]Rylee[ / u r l ]

    The web address is entered as part of the first tag, again, without the spaces
    [ u r l = web address ]...
     
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