Newly diagnosed!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by lori_seals, Jan 11, 2010.

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  1. lori_seals

    lori_seals New Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Hi! I'm Lori and very new to the diabetic kitty community. Wow, what a confusing few days its been but I'm ever so grateful for this site!

    We noticed a couple of weeks ago that there was an INSANE amount of urine in our kitties litter boxes. We have two...a Siamese mix, Kahlua and a little tiger kitty, Shedel. Kept a close eye on the water dishes and the kitties and noticed Kahlua at the dish a lot and losing weight.

    Off to the vet we went and sure enough, my baby is diabetic. I have no clue what his BG# was at the vet. Discussed with the vet the different treatment options. I decided to try the glipizide tablets and diet change to begin with. I started the glipizide on Friday night and started the change to canned food (Special Kitty) on Saturday. On Sunday, I got a glucose meter so I can monitor him at home. Yesterday afternoon his BG was 221 and this morning it was 278 before breakfast.

    I'm praying that the glipizide and diet change can regulate him because quite honestly I'm not sure we can afford to go the insulin route. :cry:

    Does anyone here use glipizide?
     
  2. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Lori and welcome :)

    Unfortunately, I don't think any of us use glip because insulin is better. Why? Insulin is more natural, whereas glip works by forcing the pancreas to work. This can 'burn out' the pancreas and can also have other side effects. Further, while some people think it is safer than insulin, it can cause hypoglycemia just as insulin can. Insulin is a much better option...

    My suggestion is that you start reading the faq http://binkyspage.tripod.com/faq.html for more info and come on back with more questions and info about yourselves :)

    Jen
     
  3. Jen & Squeak

    Jen & Squeak Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    ps insulin isn't THAT expensive so hopefully we can help make this as easy for you as possible
     
  4. lori_seals

    lori_seals New Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Oh. :(

    Thanks for the link, Jen.
     
  5. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Hi Lori, and welcome! You have come to the best place to help Kahlua and yourself. :)

    Let me start by saying that it is AWESOME that your vet is (apparently) supportive of a diet change to a non-prescription canned food and of home testing. That is really wonderful. And even more wonderful that you are home testing successfully already! It took me (and many other people here) weeks and weeks to be able to consistently home test and get results. So you are ahead of the game on that front. :)

    Did you see the food charts which list the carb content of various canned food, or how did you pick the Special Kitty? If you have not seen the chart, it is here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html
    You want to look for a food with <10% carbs. If you have already looked at it, sorry for the repeat.

    I can't speak to glipizide because I don't use it, nor have I heard of anyone on here using it, although that doesn't mean there isn't someone. I would urge you to consider insulin, though. I know the cost is a factor, but some insulins are really very cost-effective. Some of it depends on how much insulin Kahlua would be on (smaller dose=longer-lasting vial, of course) and how long he needs to stay on it. A vial of PZIR (insulin specifically for animals, available only at a vet's office) is about $89, and depending on Kahlua's insulin needs, could you last you 6 months or longer. Lantus (and maybe Levemir too) comes in pens. You can easily get a month's use out of one pen (and longer if you don't use it all up) and a 5-pack of pens can be purchased online for around $115. Everyone here can definitely help you find the cheapest places to purchase insulin, as well as testing supplies.

    Look around here, read all you can, get your spreadsheet set up so we can easily see Kahlua's numbers and get a picture of where he's at. Ask any questions you might have, anything at all. We have all been where you are, so we understand and want to help. :)
     
  6. lori_seals

    lori_seals New Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    The vet recommended prescription dry food or any "senior" type cat food. I opted to research first and found the chart you posted, which helped tremendously! I've never been one to feed canned food because I assumed that the dry food was just as good. Silly me, right? ;)

    The vet also never mentioned home testing. In fact, the vet never mentioned much at all which I'm VERY irritated with and am considering a new vet. The only thing stopping me is the idea that they'll want to redo the tests.
     
  7. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Good for you, Lori. Wonderful that you are doing your own research. Have you seen this site on food by Dr. Lisa (vet): http://www.catinfo.org

    Sounds like you are trying to hometest. Here's a video that shows you how: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 l And my favorite site for hometesting info: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm

    As others have said, we strongly advise insulin over glip. The pancreas has a limited amount of time to recover and have function again. You want to using the best possible tools from the beginning.

    If you want to post your city and state, there may be someone who lives there who knows a good diabetes vet.

    Keep reading and asking questions. This thing is very doable.
     
  8. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    If you are happy with your vet other than this incident, it's worth considering keeping him as long as he will be supportive/non-combative regarding home testing. The sad reality is that many vets prescribe the rx food, and the dry as well. Mine did, and she also did not mention home testing. She has been supportive of my choices to both home test and feed non-rx canned food, though.

    If your vet's attitude so far has been too much to handle, or you weren't happy with him before this, then by all means switch. If you like him and believe he is open to learning, it's always possible that when he sees how much good you are doing for Kahlua, and Kahlua's amazing results (which I am confident will happen!), your vet might change his way of thinking and be more open to helping other diabetic kitties in the future by advocating home testing or LC canned (non-rx) food. You just never know!

    The decision is yours and only you can say whether or not you can put up with your vet, or if you can find a better one. We will support you either way, and like Sue said, if you post your city/state, there might be someone who lives nearby and has a recommendation. :)
     
  9. lori_seals

    lori_seals New Member

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    Jan 11, 2010
    Thank you all!

    Is there someplace I can find info on setting up a spreadsheet? I glanced at some of yours and was all :shock: and confused. LOL!
     
  10. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi

    welcome to the FDMB, you can learn how to set up a spreadsheet, add an AVATAR (pic) and work on your signature all in the TECH forum.
    And then you can test everything in the EVERYTHING forum.

    There are several threads in TECH that have instructions, if ur not sure just start a new thread there for techie help.
     
  11. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

    There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

    1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

    Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
    Nutrition/food info

    The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


    2. Home testing: It's great that you are already home testing!!!

    It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

    Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

    Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

    Home testing Links

    3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.

    Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

    Insulin Support Groups

    However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

    If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

    I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

    Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
     
  12. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome, Lori... You have received some really great advice. I just wanted to dip into the thread to say Welcome and to further emphasise how bad glip can be in the long run.

    And as others have said, if you are happy with your vet otherwise, and he's willing to listen to what you have to say with respect to the up-to-date treatments for diabetes that you are learning about here, then you might be better off with him - not only do you have a relationship and he'll appreciate how involved you are but the information just may help other clients in time.

    Please do a lot of reading and ask any questions you have at all... nothing is too small. It's overwhelming and even simplest thing/idea/treatment can become confusing when it's all coming at you at one time.
     
  13. lori_seals

    lori_seals New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    I really appreciate the opinions/experience with the glip.

    Can someone (all of you? ;) ) give me an idea how much you pay per month for insulin, etc?
     
  14. Lisa dvm

    Lisa dvm Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Lori,

    I have not read all of the replies but no doubt that this is going to echo them.

    I do NOT advocate the use of glipizide and any colleague who is familiar with the optimal treatment of diabetes will not use it either.

    Home testing + insulin + low-carb CANNED (NO dry) food = optimal feline diabetes managment.
     
  15. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I have not had a diabetic cat in over a year so I cannot estimate how much it costs today to treat a cat with FD because much has changed and there are many that are treating FD in a very frugal manner easily. Insulins are bought in different ways (not in vials but in smaller portions so that they last longer - though the initial output may be more)... and often home testing supplies can be purchased online for a fraction of the cost of what you'd pay at the pharmacy.... So please let everyone weigh in on this...

    The point of my post now is to ask you not to let the cost be a factor in whether or not or how you treat this disease ... Yes, there is a bit more money spent in the first few weeks/months maybe... but so many cats, with the right treatment, end up off insulin and so much healthier than they were before the diagnosis, that you may be spending the money now but be saving a load of money in the long run. If your cat is one of the over 60% that becomes diet controlled (no insulin, just living on low carb foods), then you are likely going to be reducing the risk of other health issues in the future by feeding such a good diet. And therefore saving more money in vet bills as he ages.

    So sure, prepare yourself by finding out what the cost is, but please do understand that many many cats do not stay on insulin forever.
     
  16. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Lori,

    Welcome here.
    I think I paid Eur 40,00 for a vial of caninsulin aka. vetsulin. The type of insulin you do NOT want to use.
    So my info is worthless to you. :smile:
    I've read from others that they pay around 12 or 13 bucks a month...
    The initial costs are high. But you have to remember that you can use the pens etc. for a long time. So in the end costs are ok I think.
     
  17. Sarah and Buzz

    Sarah and Buzz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    I can tell you what my experience was as far as the cost of insulin, but it varies widely depending on what insulin and how much you use each day.

    Buzz was on PZI for 4 months to the day. She went through about 2/3 of a vial of PZI in that time. The vial cost me $120, so the monthly cost on that was $30. You can look at her SS to see the dose, but she started out at 1.5u twice a day, and then went steadily down from there, so she was never on extremely large doses.

    A box of Lantus SoloStar pens (5 3-mL pens) can be purchased online for $115. If each pen lasts you one month, that breaks down to $23/month. Lantus can last longer than that if you store and handle it properly, so again, it comes down to how much Kahlua needs.

    The test strips are where your real cost in diabetes lies. You can get the meter for cheap, as you already know, and the syringes are pretty cheap as well. I get a box of 100 syringes for $17, but I believe the Walmart brand syringes (Relion brand) might even be cheaper than that, although I am not sure. Test strips you will definitely get online. You can find some great deals on eBay, Hocks.com (if you shop on Hocks, please be sure to use the link at the top of the index page so that FDMB will get an 8% commission), or some other sites.

    It really can be affordable and we can help you find the best ways to make it so. :)
     
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