NIKITA NEEDS HELP--Kita is GA

UPDATE BELOW; NIKITA IS GA

My name is Robin. I live in Mississippi near the coast where Hurricane Katrina hit in August 2005. My home is still unlivable. I am still living in a FEMA provided temporary travel trailer. We will be evicted soon (They are telling us probably June). I don't have alot of money. I rescue animals, but shouldn't because when an emergency happens, I can't handle it. In January, I spent my entire years vet savings on my baby "Dobie". She is my 15 year old miniature pinscher. I have been with her since the day she was born. She has never spent a night away from me. She has breast cancer. She has had 3 surgeries to remove tumors. I didn't expect another emergency to occur so soon. Or should I say I wasn't prepared for another emergency so soon.

Nikita was diagnosed on February 1 with diabetes. She was put on Vetsulin 2 times a day. She recently stopped eating for no apparent reason. She hasn't had food since Saturday. She is currently at the vets office. They needed to keep her there. Diabetic Cats In Need is helping Nikita. But the vet says there isn't enough money for them to put her on IV fluids. They haven't force fed her in any way. I will be finding out more tomorrow. I want answers. I want to know why they haven't tried tube feeding her or something to get food into her before her liver starts to fail. I don't understand. She is also going to be switched to lantus since she is there anyway---if she makes it. I am asking for any help that may be available for Kita (Nikita). "Diabetic Cats In Need" works off of donations and can't help unless donations are available.

If anyone has any suggestions or if this has happened to anyone else,I would like to know. Kita just stopped eating for no reason that I could tell. She showed no signs or symptoms of low or high blood sugar. Her BG is usually around 200-300 on a normal day. It went up to 319. But there were still no other symptoms. She just wouldn't eat.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

Has she been tested for ketones?

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

Robin, what is the vet doing if he isn't feeding her or getting fluids?

Have you spoken with Venita about finding another vet?



The vet should feed Nikita at least through syringe-feeding.

I'm so sorry for your situation and hope there is a solution for you asap.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

was any bloodwork done? -- cbc and chem panel ? a fPLI?
an xray?

If she isn't blocked ( can be checked by xray) how about trying some appetite stimulents ?

please let us know what your vet has and hasn't done so we can help you more.

thanks.

best wishes for your Nikita.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

I called the vet's office on Monday and authorized charges for inappetance up to $150 unless the vet called and explained why additional charges were required. I hadn't heard back from the vet or Robin until this. From what I had understood was going on, I thought it would be an exam and some appetite stimulants.

Robin had told me the vet would want to keep Nikita to switch insulins, and I had explained why that wasn't necessary. However, Robin told me the vet only charges $10-$20/day to "regulate," so I said fine. I also mailed Robin 100 test strips Tuesday and am having someone else mail her ~50 syringes.

I will contact the vet's office today and ask questions.

So, fluids, assisted feeding, appetite stimulant, and ketone check, for sure. I will ask about the need for bloodwork and X-rays. I don't see the need for an fPLI at this point.

Any other ideas? Anybody want to donate for Robin and Nikita? Link to donation instructions in my signature line.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

how about that the cat is on the recalled insulin and even the manufacturer says do not use vestulin. Nikita needs a new insulin and if Robin can syringe feed and water her, she is probably better taken care of at home then the scary vet place.

just my immediate thoughts.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

OK. I didn't choose vetsulin. My vet did. Before this I had no idea cats could even get diabetes. Through my own research, I decided to switch her to Lantus because of the chance of getting her off insulin completely. This is from the vetsulin website. The product has not been recalled. Just a halt in production until the problem is resolved.

http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/Vet_ProductAlert.aspx
"Is VETSULIN being recalled? No. The product is remaining in distribution, but supplies will soon be exhausted. Veterinarians should plan on transitioning their diabetic patients to other insulin products and should not be starting any newly diagnosed diabetic patients on Vetsulin.
Why is Intervet/Schering-Plough Animal Health asking veterinarians to transition diabetic pets from VETSULIN to other insulin products?
In its alert, FDA recommended that veterinarians consider transitioning their patients to other insulins. Due to the fact that we do not know when the situation will be resolved, supply shortages are expected."

Either way, I wanted to switch her to Lantus. I had already made the appointment to bring her in to switch her and have a glucose curve done for the day so that if there were any problems, she would already be at the vet. The charge for this was only $20, so it wasn't a problem letting him keep her for the day. I live an hour from the vet and that was the best decision in case of an emergency.

Kita had other plans apparently. She refused to eat much Saturday and Sunday. She did eat a little, but not enough. I did force feed her with a dropper. I tried everything I could think of. I tried catnip sprinkled over the food, canned food, dry food, turkey, chicken, tuna, baby food. Nothing worked. I dropper fed her and she threw it back up within minutes. She is now on IV fluids. I will be able to get the blood test results tomorrow morning. I am going to visit her and taking a can of makeral to see if she will eat it.

As I said in my original post, I live in a FEMA camper. Due to FEMA requirements, I have deadlines to meet to repair my home. I work from 9 a.m. to 2 a.m. on the weekends. My boyfriend knows how to give the insulin shot. I make up the syringes for the weekend on Friday and leave them ready in the fridge. He doesn't test or do anything except give her the shot and refill her food and water bowls. Thats how we make it through the days that I work long hours. Some weeks, this does happen on weekends as well as 3 days of the week. Trying to syringe feed her every few hours would be impossible unless I took off work. In my work, I would be replaced if I couldn't reschedule within the next 2 days. I clean houses and I am a substitute teacher. There is no replacement for me if I'm sick. I have no vacation time. And I depend on the money from each days work to pay my bills. I have no family or friends that will help me. I live way out in the country. She has to be able to make it through the day on her own if she is home. There is noone else to help her during the day.

I do trust this vet. I have used him for over 20 years. I had one animal die while in his care and that was in no way due to his negligence or his quality of care. I have not had any problems with Kita since the day she was diagnosed with diabetes. He simply has never used a human insulin on an animal and has agreed to research it more. He has never even had a patient caregiver request to test at home. That is the same thing I was told by the other vets in my area that I've called. He does work with me on the cost. He is much , much more reasonable than any other vet. He knows that I rescue animals and that I only work with him and the other rescue groups helping to care for the animal. As an animal rescuer , he gives me an additional discount. For my own animals , he requires a "held" check that he will let me make payments on. But I only have 3 months to pay it off no matter what the balance is. No other vet in the area will do any of this. His office is very small and the building is nothing fancy. His office is always packed with people because of his low-cost service as well as his expertise. He is well known in the area to be the best. I already have an outstanding bill of almost $300 , i think, that was suppose to be paid off by May 7th. That was for the week when Kita was diagnosed. She dropped her weight so quickly and sharing food with other cats, I had no idea she wasn't eating well. She was dehydrated and had to be kept on IV fluids for the week along with the bloodwork and other tests he had to do.That cost included the food, insulin and syringes. He hasn't hassled me about the overdue bill and is still allowing me to make the payments as I can. He knows the financial situation and knows that without Venita's help and without your help--there is nothing more financially I can do right now. Please help if you can. Thank you all so much.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

((((Robin))))

I understand your deep attachment to Nikita and your reasons for wanting to stay with this vet. However, my two attempts to talk with someone in the office yesterday were very frustrating. Even though I had authorized payment for treatment for inappentance, they were doing nothing specific in that regard. They had used only $40 of the $150 I authorized, and this was used in trying to regulate Nikita on an insulin you say the vet has never heard of or used. They said that Nikita needed IV fluids and blood tests, but that I had not specifically authorized them. ????? They had my phone number and could have called me if they wanted me to provide the treatment plan. I had just trusted they would know what to do.

Robin also tells me that the vet tech (or jack-of-all-trades assistant there) has never heard of appetite stimulants, and that they did not have cyproheptadine to dispense. Again ???????

This is very frustrating, and I am afraid that I went off a bit on Robin yesterday when she called to try to express her frustration. I want to publicly apologize for that Robin.

Many of us have dealt with vets that don't have an up-to-date knowledge of feline diabetes, who insist on the feeding of dry prescription food (as yours does although you use a mix of dry and wet commercial food), who discourage or unaware of hometesting of blood glucose levels as a necessary treatment tool. Some of us who have felt the need to stay with a vet in those situations have found that we can gather information from here and other diabetic cat sites to share with the vet to help him/her learn as well.

We don't know whether Nikita has ketones; she had not been tested despite being at the vet's since Monday or Tuesday (I'm not clear on which). Perhaps we will know the answer this morning. She has not been given an appetite stimulant. Cypro is a human drug (you had asked me and I did not know). It is an antihistamine and although I cannot find it on the $4 generic list for Target or Walmart, you should be able to get it from a human pharmacy if the vet will write a prescription.

You have told me that you only test Nikita about 3 times/week. This is partly because of the cost of test strips but also because of the guidance from a feline diabetes Yahoo site that sets no preshot testing and weekly (or less frequent) curves as an appropriate testing protocol. We do not take that position here. We encourage testing before each shot, and frequent testing mid-cycle to learn the nadir (lowest point of the curve), both the determine whether it is safe to give the present shot and to establish an appropriate dosage. Time permitting, you should be able to do this type of testing on Nikita now because I have sent you OTU test strips. When those are gone, provided Diabetic Cats in Need can afford it, DCIN will help you with the cost of strips for a cheaper but still reliable system.

You should be aware that you will not be able to prefill syringes with Lantus insulin. Something in that particular insulin is incompatible with the interior lining of the syringes, causing contamination to the insulin if prefilled. Should your BF continue to help you with Nikita's shots, he will need to learn to draw insulin himself.

The sooner Nikita is healthy enough to come home, IMO, the better off she will be. Cats cannot be regulated on insulin at the vets because of stress that raises the blood glucose level. Often, the dosage established at the vet will be too high once the cat is home and more relaxed. Also, inappetance leads to wacky blood glucose levels, as well as potential damage to the liver and perhaps even cascade failure of other organs. Some cats simply will not eat (or eat well) at the vet, and this vet's office seems to have little time to syringe feed her.

Please let us know what you find when you visit Nikita today.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

I didn't see anyone mention the obvious that Lantus will not have even shown its effects while at the vets for a couple of days. While the shed fills there will be no insulin to bring down her BGs. If the vet is unfamiliar with Lantus, they could be upping the dose and pumping her full of insulin and send home a kitty that could crash when all that insulin hits the system and the vet stress is removed. Please please make sure you are testing her frequently when you bring her home. Don't dose more than 1 unit until you KNOW what her patterns are or the protocol here says to, even if your vet says to. As you said yourself the vet doesn't know this insulin, the people here do and they know it well, let them guide you with it.

We followed vets advice (and she is actually experienced with Lantus) and ended up at 3 units twice a day within a month and did NOT feel safe at that level. That's when I found this site and started home testing. We were back down to 1 unit quite quickly and OTJ within 4 months of diagnosis.

Sorry your financial and living situations are so dire. The stress must be immense and it is wonderful that you still want to help animals when you are stuggling to make it. I am glad Venita is able to help.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

You quoted a website regarding the vestulin recall and just saw this post on the vestulin board, thought you may want to see, as there are serious issues with this insulin.

Jess & Earl is a vet tech and knows what she is talking about.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

I spent the day with Kita at the vets office today. She has been on IV fluids and had a feeding tube put in. She was doing good Saturday. Then Sunday she wouldn't get up and walk or anything. This morning she came close to dying but the vet helped her. When I got there at lunch, she was just lying there-refusing to move at all. Venita told me to just spend time talking to her and holding her and try to understand what she wanted. So, I felt I was being selfish and I told the vet to go ahead and euthanize her. He left to get the syringe and I was holding her for the last time. She got up and started walking and rubbing against me, purring a little. I was going to bring her home and feed her through the tube myself and give her IV fluids at home. But I really think that would have signed her death certificate for sure. I live too far out in the country--about an hour from the vet. If anything happened to her, she would never make it to the vet. He is doing everything he can. She is being monitored around the clock and kept on IV fluids and fed through the feeding tube.

Unfortunately, Since I chose to leave her at the vet, her funding has been pulled. She is no longer eligible for help as of tomorrow. She is sure to die now--after all of this being done to save her. I don't know what else to do. Her only chance is at the vet. It would cost alot to switch to a new vet now and she would be a new patient. Starting over completely would lose alot of valuable time-even if there were money to do this. He showed me the research he has been doing. He went over all the blood test results with me. Her liver enzymes were a little high but he said it is not the most impotant thing to be concerned with right now. Every test was negative or normal. She is being fed AD cat food and an appetite stimulant. There is no physical reason why she should refuse to eat--no organ failure or anything. She just doesn't want to eat. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If anyone knows of any other funding options for her, please let me know quickly. I don't qualify for care credit, due to a car wreck I was in. I was run off the road by an 18-wheeler log truck. He saw me wreck. He stopped, then drove away and left me there to die. When someone finally found me, I was in shock and lying in the road on a curve. I was in the hospital for 2 weeks and took 6 months to fully recover. I had insurance but since I did not hit the log truck head on-my insurance refused to pay. I tried to hire a lawyer, but apparently logging is too important in my area and no lawyer would help. I even tried an out of state lawyer. There were no witnesses so they thought there would be no way to even prove there was another truck involved. One lawyer said he would install a surveillance camera to catch the trucks on tape showing how they drive around that curve in the opposite lane at high speeds. But noone ever did help. I couldn't pay the medical bills --over $70,000. So, now my credit is ruined for another 5 years. Anyway, I have sold everything I had of value to buy building materials for my home and to pay a payment on the first vet bill for Kita when she was diagnosed in February.

Email me if you would like to call and speak to me directly. (Number removed by mod). Just leave a message if I don't answer. I will be able to check my email in the morning. And won't be able to check it again until tomorrow night. Email will take too long. Any suggestions are needed now-not later when I'm able to check email. And as I said, tomorrow is her only chance since her funds were pulled today. Thankyou for all that has been done to save her already. I wish that she wouldn't be forced to suffer just because of my decision to leave her at the vet instead of bringing her home. That should never have been a factor in whether she is helped financially or not. I will find out what the bill is tomorrow and go from there.

 

DCIN reply--sorry it's long

Another moderator has removed Robin phone number, but if someone would like to contact her, please PM me and I can provide it.

This is a situation of severe lack of communication and capability. Robin took Nikita to the vet early last week for inappentance. I authorized $150 from the DCIN fund, thinking it was a matter of an exam, some subQ fluids, and cyproheptadine. On Thursday, Robin called me, telling me that she had left Nikita at the vet and that they were not assisting Tawny with eating and that they did not have or know of cypro. I called the vet's office and was told that they were trying to regulate her on a new insulin (lantus) that they were unfamiliar with, and offering her small amounts of food by syringe, but that she was not eating. I was told she needed IV fluids and blood work (which they could do in the office), so I authorized part of the $150 for a day of IV fluid and basic blood work. I also asked for an estimate for a feeding tube.

From Thursday through Monday I heard nothing, even though I left messages for Robin. Robin called me yesterday, telling me that Nikita had a feeding tube placed on Friday and was still on IV fluids, had "crashed" on Saturday, although she was up and active on Sunday. Monday morning brought another crash. Robin could not explain what was meant by crash. I called the vet's office, and all the tech could tell me was to confirm what Robin had said. I asked for a call back from the vet to explain the medical situation, and asked for a call back from the person who might be able to tell me the charges so far. Neither returned my call.

A few hours later, Robin called from the vet's office telling me Nikita had died, but the vet brought her back. I asked to speak to the vet, which took about 10 minutes. The vet said Nikita had died, but that he brought her back with Epinephrine and something else he could not recall the name of. He said she was not ketonic. She had experienced some very low BG numbers on the new Lantus, so they had adjusted the dose. Her most recent BG level was in the mid 500s. He felt not 1 in 100 cats would survive in Nikita's condition. He said he would never advise a client to euthanize and animal; that is their decision. He could not explain why Nikita had "crashed," or really what that meant, except to agree when I asked whether it might be a cascade organ failure. As part of the "blood tests," he had done an in-house FIV/FeLV combo test and sent a sample out for a bartonella test.

As Robin said, I asked her to speak to Nikita and ask what she wanted. I called the clinic back to ask again about charges, but was told the vet had not yet "worked that up." I called my credit card company and explained that I was concerned about possible exorbitant charges on my credit card, but they said they could not put a fraud alert on my card without canceling the card. I could not do that because I have other cats presently receiving services on that card. They said I could question any unauthorized charges after they were posted with their fraud department.

A couple hours later, Robin called saying that she had planned to PTS, but that Nikita had rallied. She said she wanted to take Nikita home with the feeding tube and IV fluids. I questioned her ability to administer IV fluids, and that perhaps the vet was suggesting SubQ fluids at home. I told her that in my opinion, Nikita would likely not survive, but that if she were to go, it might be better at home, on the feeding tube, fed with AD, and subQ fluids.

I thought about what was happening, and called Robin back and told her that DCIN would not pay any more charges past that point. The clinic called me back to talk about charges, but I was out at my cancer support group. I now see from this post, that Nikita remains at the vet's office.

I did what I needed to do to protect DCIN's funds. The vet's office has been more than remiss in advising me about the treatment plan and what they intend to charge DCIN. Robin has not kept me apprised of Nikita's condition and treatment. DCIN is not a blank check, and I am now very concerned about having to deal through my credit card company's fraud department to reverse charges I never authorized because I never fully advised of the treatment plan or the cat's condition.

I fear this one is going to take alot of effort to contain, because everything has been verbal.

I understand Robin's desire to keep Nikita alive. She told me that the vet should know what was wrong and be able to save her cat. I gently explained that vets, like doctors, were not miracle workers and that it might be Nikita's time to go. I hope Nikita survives; I believe that her condition has been a matter of diabetic mismanagement from the start. DCIN has helped all it can, and likely will be severely financially damaged by this situation. If anyone has advice for me, I would be glad to hear it, here or by PM.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

Robin- I am sorry you are going through this situation. As I read all the posts and have for the past couple weeks, I do have to wonder why the communication seems to be sorely lacking.

Venita is doing her best to help your cat and it's a very challenging and difficult position that she is in, when neither the vet's office or you are able to clearly explain what is going on.

The only way I can see to help resolve this situation is, if you get the vet to document everything that has been done for Nikkita and have it faxed or emailed to Venita.

I've been on this board for over one year and in my time here, NEVER have I seen Venita refuse to help a cat for no good reason. We all feel for your situation and Nikita's but you need to help Venita, help you by getting her the necessary information so she 100% understands what is happening.

Venita - going forward, may I suggest that when using your credit card to fund cat care like this, that if your card offers "virtual account numbers" that you utilize that and of course track it for each cat - by using a virtual number you can set a $ limit and card expiration date. This way, you can limit the amount of funds for each cat or issue that you deal with.

I use this all the time for online shopping and it works well. It also helps that if there is a fraud issue to deal with, it's a very limited amount and you don't have to worry that your card is comprised or all your balance available is tapped.


Regarding suggestions for this cat in particular - is there any way you can get this vet's office to provide you a comprehensive treatment summary in writing, so you know what's been done to date and what else could be done?

Another idea going forward, is when you provide your "funds" to a vet office that you also draft a very simple checklist of what these funds will cover - put the cat's name, treatment covered and total amount of $ being supplied. Also provide your contact details and a requirement that depending on situation, you must receive a written daily summary of the vet's actions.

You may already be doing this, but if not, rather than deal verbally where things can get messed up quickly and easily, it's all done in writing and the instructions and approvals are clear for everyone - you, DCIN, vet, and pet owner.

Hope this helps. and I am sorry this became such a mess.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

Thank you Hillary for the calm, clear guidance.

I've never heard of virtual account numbers, but it sounds like a perfect solution to some of the situations I find myself in. I will look into that.

ETA: Nope, this card company doesn't use virtual account numbers. It looks like Discover does, and I do have one of those. I will check it out further. (I liked the card I was using because I could keep it exclusively for DCIN, and DCIN gets a 1% rebate. I use the Discover, so it will take more management to separate the charges. Or maybe Discover will give me a separate credit card just for the virtual account numbers. I will look into that.)

Thanks again Hillary.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

do you view your account online? Citibank and chase I believe are two of the biggest virtual users - I use citi and manage the account online - if you can't find it online, just call your cc company and ask if they offer it and how to access it.

 

Re: NIKITA NEEDS HELP

Venita,
I have always been impressed with the time and effort you give to the cats and the work you do on the board, as well as handling your own health issues with such grace. But I think that those receiving help should then be bending over backwards to thank you, and those who have donated. Sometimes you have to think globally about all the kitties in the DCIN care, not just the one.
In my mind you are their gaurdian angel.
I hope your little vacation does you a world of good.
Dana

 

Nikita is at peace

From a post on the Yahoo Group, Diabetic Cats Dietary Management:

 

(((((Robin))))) I am so sorry for your loss and the distress you must be feeling. From having rescued 3-day-old Nikita from within the wall of a house under construction, where her mother had left her when she moved the nest. To this end, a loss of the baby you so loved.

rb_icon Nikita, may you land softly, with your Angel Wings wings_cat , at the Rainbow Bridge, until you look up from your frolicking one day to see that those you love have joined you on the other side.

 

(((((((((((((((((((((((((ROBIN))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am so very sorry for your loss. Wrapping you in cyber hugs. Nikita is flying free now, whole and healthy over the Rainbow Bridge. rb_icon

wings_cat

 

deepest sympathies on your loss

 

Land softly little one...

 

I am so very sorry for your loss.
wings_cat

 

I am very sorry for your loss of Kita, Robin.

Venita, thank you for all that you do to help these precious babies.

~M

 

I am so sorry for your loss.

May all your wonderful memories of Nikita bring you comfort...

...'til you meet again.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

What a sad story with a sad ending. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to find some comfort in light of everything that happened. Fly free Kita. Jericho will look for you at the bridge, and you are healthy once again, surrounded by love.

 

Thankyou all for your comfort during this time. I am having a very hard time with this. While I was at the vets office, they had a kennel full of kittens. One little girl saw me crying and asked why. I softly explained to her that my kitty had went to heaven and she smiled. That confused me and I just looked at her. Then she walked over to me with a baby kitten in her arms and said "Heres another kitty you can love". I cried harder and had to leave the room. But I came back out and told the little girl that it wasn't her fault I cried and I told her that no other kitty could take my kitas place. I already have other cats to love, but kita was special. She was a 6 toed tortoise shell calico with a black mustache above her lip. People jokingly called her hitler. Usually calicos are very territorial and have "attitudes". Kita was always accepting of new animals in her home. None of my other calicos are that way. She was my only tortie though. My other special baby is a manx/ calico.

If you donated money to help Kita , please send me a private message to let me know. Thankyou. --Robin

 

Wow (((Robin))) What a rollercoaster ride this has been. :sad: I'm so sorry Nikita didn't make it. It never seems like enough time with them.

(((HUGS))) & tears,
-Steph

P.S. The pic you posted above is ADORABLE. What a unique gal.

 

((( Robin )))

How sad, Robin. I'm so sorry for everything you've been through, it's heartbreaking to have just lost such a close friend.

 

(((Robin))) I am so sorry. Nikita was special.

Fly free Nikita. rb_icon