No insulin for a week! When is it remission?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Rhonda T, Dec 20, 2017.

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  1. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    Nov 25, 2017
    Oreo has now gone seven days without insulin. He's been just over 200 2x and I decided not to give insulin because of big drops in his BG when I did the curve. I'm not doing the curve anymore, just AMPS and PMPS. In the last seven days he's been between 109 and 213. If he can stay in that range for one more week is he considered to be in remission? Then test once a week? Thanks in advance for advice.
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Two weeks with readings between 50-120. 213 on a human meter is too high.
     
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  3. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    So I should still be giving insulin? I thought I'd seen others here that were also using the Relion Confirm that were using 200 for the high.
     
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    We tell new people without a lot of data to skip under 200. 200 should not be your ultimate goal. Eventually you wanna get those numbers down to around 80-100. Remember with a human meter a number like 213 could easily be as high as a 300 on a vet pet meter. I use a pet meter and still shoot anything over 120.

    Can you post your readings or set up a spreadsheet so folks can help with dosing? What insulin is your cat on?
     
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  5. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    He's on Vetsulin but I don't use your spreadsheet. I've got a different app I use.
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    that's fine.... can you post it? or make a link to it? or screenshot it?

    Let me get more eyes on it....

    @Kris & Teasel what say you?
     
  7. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    Thursday - 213 / 174
    Friday - 168 / 210
    Saturday - 194 / 168
    Sunday - 176 / 129
    Monday - 133 / 109
    Tuesday - 179 / 161
    Today - 135 / 146
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm ... I certainly don't have experience with a kitty going into remission but these numbers are a bit higher than what I've seen on threads for kitties almost there. @Djamila might have a better take on it.
     
  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    all of these numbers are still higher then normal. you aren't quite there yet. What kind of numbers do you get when you give a .25-.5 dose?
     
  10. Vader723

    Vader723 Member

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    Watching!
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, those numbers are too high to call it remission just yet, although it looks like he'd like to head that direction! If you can screenshot and post your data, Janet or Kris can help you figure out some doses that might help get him the rest of the way there. Giving our kitties support until they re really ready to go on their own is the best way to get a longer-lasting remission.
     
  12. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    My vet prescribed Vetsulin, 2 units, 2x/day. The last shots I've given have been just one unit, maybe a little under. He hasn't had 2 units since the first week. I wonder if I should bring him in and test along with the vet to compare our readings. I called her a couple weeks ago and she asked what I was using. When I told her it was the Relion Confirm she said it was fine if I didn't shoot under 200.
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    ok well if your goal is to make him comfortable and regulated then not shooting under 200 is an ok plan. Your cat can be perfectly fine at those levels. But continue to test daily as that number can climb, so you will need to be willing to give insulin then. If your goal is remission you will want to get that number under 120. I think try small doses of .25-.5 will help you get there. comparing readings with the vet is a fine idea... both take a sample with your own meters. The two kinds of meters are similar at low numbers, but further apart at high numbers. So while a 50 on a relion might be a 70 on pet meter, a 250 on a relion could be a 350 on a pet meter. your cat is ALMOST there... just needs a LITTLE more insulin support. small doses.
     
  14. Vader723

    Vader723 Member

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    I don’t want to hijack this thread, so please tell me if I should start another. I have the same question. Vader’s numbers have been trending steadily downward, enough that the last couple of days I have only tested once a day to give his ears a break. I haven’t done a curve, because I haven’t given insulin (Prozinc) in almost a week. After his terrifying episode of hypoglycemia I have been nervous about giving any insulin. He had one full (1u) dose the day after returning from hospital and his blood sugar dropped >250 pts in 6 hours. The ER vet (internist) I told this to when she called to check on him said given that response I should hold for giving him insulin for anything under 200. He has only hit that once, and after a .5u dose on 12/14 his highest glucose has been 148 and that was 4 days ago. I appreciate the info on readings of <120 for 2 weeks. Is there something else I should be doing or watching for?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
    Reason for edit: number error
  15. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    Thank you everyone! I'm going to try to compare monitors asap and pick up some syringes with .5 increments.
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    your numbers are looking REALLY good the last few days. Keep testing at least once a day and lets see what happens with Vader. Are you using a pet meter or human meter? Either way you are under 120 these last three days. COME ON VADER!
     
  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  18. Vader723

    Vader723 Member

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    Thank you! Fingers crossed! I’m using a human meter; Agamatrix (branded for CVS). It receives pretty good accuracy ratings (97%) but of course those were human studies, not cats :/
     
  19. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    We're going to the vet tonight to compare monitors. I'm also going to test at home shortly before we leave so I can see how much it goes up just from the five minute car ride, etc.
     
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  20. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    Back from the vet! I tested him at 4:30 at home, he was at 214, highest he'd been in about 10 days. Half an hour later at the vet my tester said 189 and hers said 281! But she looked at his numbers, saw the trend, and told me to just keep doing what I'm doing. I'm just shocked at my own numbers at the vet compared to at home.
     
  21. Vader723

    Vader723 Member

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    Yowsa! That’s a big difference! Watching to see what those with more experience think about this
     
  22. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    I know! And his BG went DOWN at the vet, compared to at home? He doesn't freak out there, he's actually an angel for them but I still thought it would have gone up.
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Tip:

    If you find that the Vetsulin produces risky/dangerous BG drops even when fine dosing you could always ask your vet about switching to an insulin with a 'gentler' action profile (e.g. Levemir or Lantus). I was able to switch Saoirse from Caninsulin (UK brand name for Vetsulin) to Lantus and she achieved remission a few months later. Here's a link to her 2014 spreadsheet in case you'd like to see how she responded to the two different insulins:

    Saoirse's Spreadsheet 2014 (US BG values)

    (NB: Alphatrak meter, custom colour coding - see key at top of sheet.)

    Note: Saoirse's overall clinical signs hugely improved after the switch to Lantus, not just her BG numbers.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  24. Rhonda T

    Rhonda T Member

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    I wish I'd remembered to talk to her about that last night. Next time!
     
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