No insulin until Monday! Help! (And other questions)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by HelloKrystie, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Long post, filled with questions and terror.

    My Sirius was diagnosed a week before a scheduled 6 days of travel. I taught my bf, my brother, and my sister-in-law all how to give him his shots and monitor him. I went over everything a handful of times with them all when teaching them. I even typed up normal instructions, emergency situations with instructions, and left them and a credit card with his temporary caretakers just in case. To my absolute terror, I found out last night that my bf was microwaving his insulin. In the bottle. The whole freaking bottle. WHYYYY?!? The bf claims “it was only like 2 times”, but he obviously can’t be trusted. So, all of his following shots, after the first time the bottle was microwaved, were basically like not giving Sirius any insulin at all. My bf can’t tell me when the first time he microwaved the bottle was, so it could have been the full 6 days I was gone. I just learned this last night, so now we’re at 9 days (including today) that Sirius is basically without insulin. (I haven’t given him any more of that insulin knowing it was ruined) He was diagnosed so soon before I left that I hadn’t tested his blood yet, but after learning this, I tested him right away with the bf’s help. His BG was 176 (ReliOn Premier Classic meter). This was about an hour and a half after him eating about 1/4 of a can of FF. That was at just about 8:30pm last night. (I’m eastern time here in the northeast PA). I wasn’t able to test him again on my own last night, as I asked the bf to leave before I murdered him. I’ve tried several times today to test him on my own, but I haven’t been able to manage it. Twice no results because not enough blood for the meter(I even warmed up his ear prior to both sticks), and once where he scratched me for trying to test his paw. (This is very rare for him, he never scratches at me). I have also set up a Ketone testing center in the litter box, but he hasn’t urinated yet today. Which worries me, as it’s now after 2pm. Although, I haven’t seen him drink water either. He normally drinks a decent amount, being diabetic and not regulated yet. He’s eating normal, acting normal, and seems to be his normal self all around. (prior to his insulin he was starting to get lethargic and hiding from me, but since his start on his insulin, ProZinc, he’s been more his social and cuddly self) I’m panicking because it doesn’t seem like I’m going to be able to get his insulin until Monday. I’ve called every veterinary clinic, every emergency clinic, and every pharmacy in the extended area to get him seen, or at least get his insulin. No one can help me, so I’m left testing, and praying, until Monday. Any advise, or recommendations? (aside from breaking up with the bf)

    Feeding help, I’m still a tad confused:
    My vet sent me home with Purina DM, both dry and wet. He never said anything about slowly transitioning him over. So, when I got home I immediately took up his old food and replaced it with the Purina DM. Sirius has never been a fan of wet food, but he went for the wet, and left the dry food to sit. Surprising, but definitely a great start! After much research here, and about an hour spent in the pet store, I have FF Classic Pates for him. I bought a few of every flavor of the FF that the store had available, just to make sure to have some food on hand that he would eat, and is safe for him. Should I stick to one flavor? He still has some wet DM left, so I switch between the DM and the FF. Is this okay? Should I stick to one specific food? And if so, one specific flavor? I read on Dr Piersons food chart that liver is recommended, so I bought him more of the liver flavor than any other. He’s a grazer, I’ve never been able to put him on a feeding schedule. His Vet told me to keep his feeding the same, especially since he’s going on 16, and lost an extreme amount of weight. He was a 19lb kitty, but now down to under 12lbs. We wanted him to lose weight, but his Vet said the grazing would hopefully help him put weight back on. Is leaving his food down for him okay? I’ve seen on here that a lot of caretakers give multiple small meals a day, but these seem scheduled. He’s used to me waking up, and immediately giving him food. So, I’ve been waking up (around 6:45-7am) and giving him about 1/4 a can of FF to placate him until his 7:30am shot, since I know to make sure he’s eating with the insulin. (Also so he doesn’t hide on me expecting the shot, since he’s getting keen to me and that needle) I’d like to try him on a timed feeder, especially if leaving him to graze is unadvisable. Any suggestions on feeders is definitely appreciated. Do I need one that keeps the food cold since he’s eating all wet food now? Any better or highly recommended brands or types?

    His feeding “schedule”(using FF 3oz cans for reference): He gets his morning taste (about 1/4 of can) at around 6:45-7am, then his actual meal with his shot at 7:30am (maybe 1/2 a can). I leave him what’s left of his breakfast (he usually doesn’t finish it all), and add the rest of that can to his dish. I come home for lunch to check on him at about 3:30pm and give him about another 1/3 of a can because he’s yelling at me that he’s starving. I come home from work around 5:30pm, give him a little more (usually, about 1/3 a can, then at 7:30pm I’m giving him “a full meal” (1/2 can) with his shot. Then he eats a few bites of food here and there throughout the rest of the night (maybe another 1/3 can) and I put a very small amount more on his dish before I go to bed. (Maybe 1/4 can, but he’s starving by morning) So I think he’s eating just about 3 cans a day, 9 ounces total. According to the food chart, that’s around 276 calories a day, depending on the flavors he’s eating. So according to the caloric intake formula (weight x 13.5 + 70) he’s getting approximately 44 more calories than would be needed to maintain his weight. These are all rough estimates, I can be more diligent about his feeding amounts if you all think I should be. Does this seem like enough, or too much food? Again, I’d like him to put a little weight back on. He’s always been a large kitty, he looked like he was from an older litter compared to his sister. Even their Vet doubted they were from the same litter it at their first kitten visit.

    I think my worried rant is over. Any help would be amazing! Thank you for reading through all of this!
    Krystie & Sirius
     
  2. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Hello Krystie! So sorry you lost your insulin because of microwaving. Not sure what your BF was thinking. I'm not as experienced as other members, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

    First, about the lack of insulin. Yes, that sucks, but he seems his normal self. Yes, 176 is high, but it could be worse. Yes, chances are his BGL will rise without the insulin, but being on a canned FF diet will help. As long as he exhibits no symptoms of distress, and assuming he pees sometime, he should be safe enough until Monday. Do watch him. Do take to an emergency vet if needed. Do take him if he continues not peeing or shows signs of dehydration. Do get that ketone test when you can. It's going to be hard to see how he's really doing without a BGL test. There's a very useful thread here that has tips for home testing.

    Chances are, he'll get through to Monday fine. If you have more questions about this, I'm sure other members will be able to help.

    Personally, I think while he is underweight, you should feed whenever he's hungry. Your many small meals plan looks good to me. Sirius may not put much weight on until his BGL is better regulated. Then you may have to be more careful about portion sizes.

    I don't have any advice about timed feeders, as I don't use one. Many members do. Some use the kind where you put a cold pack under them, some simply freeze later meals so they stay fresh until it's their turn to be eaten.

    Above all, breathe. Sirius is doing fine so far. He's been doing all right without insulin for some days. Yes, it's a setback, but you and Sirius can move on from here.
     
  3. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Update: @ 2:48pm I was able to test him myself, finally. BG 185. This was after about 8 treats trying to stick him; then I finally got him while he was eating his FF.
    Edited to add: that little sneak pee’d outside of the litter box ketone station setup I had. I tried to stick a strip into the urine, but there didn’t seem to be enough. The strip turned colors, in the negative range, but I don’t trust it with the amount of urine I got. Will continue to test his BG and try for urine/ketones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  4. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Thank you, Juls! This helps me relax and take a much needed breather for myself. I’ve been freaking out for the past 20 hours, so this helps put me a little at ease. I was able to get a BGL just a little bit ago. It’s at 185 now. This was while he was eating his FF, and immediately after trying to stick him while giving lots of treats. So, hopefully all the stress of me trying to poke him, and the treats and food combined, his BGL only rose 9 points...hopefully that’s where he stays until I can get his insulin.
    Thanks so much for the reply!
     
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  5. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    First of all wellcome!!

    And don't freak out, since your bf wasn't testing it was probably lucky of Sirius that he wasn't actually getting any insulin because if after 1 1/2 hours of eating he was 176 it could even have been dangerous for him to get an actual shoot, too bad the insulin was ruin though because you'll have to buy more.

    What insulin are you using?

    176 with out insulin and with him acting normal and eating is not so bad so it will be a matter of starting again, congratulations on your solo testing!! with that you will be able to help get him back on track

    Regarding the eating is just fine for them to graze, is actually better for most cats unless they have other issues or when they have more cats and then one gets all leaving the rest with out anything, you just have to make sure Sirius doesn't get anything to eat 2 hours prior his pres hoot test this is to make sure the results you get from this specific test are not food influenced and it's safe to give insulin

    Some of us use the time feeders mostly because like me we are out of the house for many hours ( I can't come back home for lunch) so it's the only way for me to make sure my cats get some food mid day or during night to make sure they eat something at midnight with out actually having to wake up.

    The amount of food Sirius is getting sounds about right but since he's underweight you could allow him to get a bit more if he wants at least till he gets regulated (diabetic cats tend to need a bit more food because the extra glucose in the blood does not allow them to get all the nutrients they need or back to his weight
     
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  6. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2019
    Great job getting a reading by yourself! Congrats! It's a struggle at the beginning, but it gets easier the more you and Sirius do it.

    I'm not an expert, but his numbers could be MUCH worse considering he hasn't had any insulin for a while. It seems like you'll probably be ok until Monday, but definitely keep an eye on him and continue to test bg and ketones so you know what's going on.

    I know more experienced people will chime in and let you know for sure, but I don't think grazing is a bad thing. I used a timed feeder but that's mostly because my cat will scarf down whatever is in front of him. I know some people freeze the wet food so they can leave it out for the cat to eat later. I never tried that because I was concerned he'd crack a tooth trying to eat it or choke by trying to eat it whole while still frozen. He's a maniac about food! I have a CatMate C500, which can be filled with 5 meals (one is always open so it could be eaten immediately if there was food in all 5). It has ice packs to keep the food fresh. So far it's worked well for us and Socks hasn't broken in.

    Also, you should pick up his food 2 hours before shot time so that when you do the AMPS (morning bg test to make sure his levels are high enough to give insulin), it won't be influenced by food.
     
  7. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    What type of BG meter are you using?
     
  8. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Even if he goes higher, he should be safe enough. If things change for the worse, then it's emergency vet time, but I don't think it will come to that. Yes, keep trying to get the ketone test, but he's not showing any signs of trouble, so fingers crossed. I'm guessing if he was going to have ketone trouble, it would have showed up when his insulin first got destroyed. It looks to me like he's hanging in there just fine. Even if his blood sugar goes up, a couple days of high sugar shouldn't be dangerous.

    Have you considered setting up a spreadsheet? Click the link in my signature to see Billy's. It's so useful to see the trends in BGLs, and will also help members here give you more specific advice. You're already doing awesome helping Sirius. You're home testing, your on a good food for him, you're learning all the things! A spreadsheet will help. Here's a thread that explains how to set it up.

    Something else I noticed. Sirius on the FF is having BGL under 200 so far. Be cautious when it's time to give him insulin again. 3 units is a very high starting dose. Usually, cats start on 1 unit, keep it there for a few days, and then adjust based on numbers. With the diet change, that 3 units may be too much. You should not give him his injection at all if he is under 200. This will help keep him from having a dangerous hypo event. Better a day with BG too high than to have a dangerous hypo. Please consider starting at one unit when the time comes. (I'm starting to think it may have been a happy accident that the insulin got zapped while you weren't there to monitor.) The diet change itself can drop BGL over 100 points, so his dose may need to be adjusted. I'm going to tag @Deb & Wink because I would like her opinion of this. She had tons of experience and can advise you better than I can.

    Another set of important links is what to do in event of a hypo, and what to have in a hypo kit.
    How to treat hypos
    Hypo tool kit.

    You are doing great. Breathe! Learn all the things! :)
     
  9. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I also agree that 3 units is too much, I agree with Juls about starting with 1 unit
     
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  10. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Sorry I missed the part where you mentioned he's getting 3 units but I also think that is too much specially with the not so high numbers you are getting it could be extremely dangerous, so do not shoot if you don't test before doing it and if he's under 200 please post here before shooting and with Prozinc you want to test and if his number is shootable feed ( to make sure he has food in his system ) and then shoot
     
  11. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Krystie was smart enough to get her signature set up and that's where I noticed it. Well done, Krystie! Just shows how important signature information and spreadsheets are.
     
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  12. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I see you are using the AT, those blue numbers are even closer to normal BG numbers with that meter.
     
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  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Krystie, sending you calming thoughts and blessings.

    Mindfulness breathing. I highly recommend it for some stress relief. Clear your mind. Concentrate on your breath, block out all other thoughts. Deep breath. hold, release, deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.

    You are so stressed, you are communicating your fear to Sirius. Sing to him when you try to test. It may sound silly, but sing to him, even if you can't carry a tune. No rap songs please, don't think many cats are into rap.

    Grazing is fine.
    Ruined/Dropped insulin vial may be a blessing in disguise.
    Perfect time to make the switch to low carb food, while your cat is not on insulin.
    I dropped a pet sitting clients almost brand new 10ml Lantus insulin vial on the floor. Caught it on the edge of the door bin taking it out, shattered on the kitchen tile quite easily. Vial is now kept in a lower location, with bubble wrap around the vial to protect it a bit. (Yes, he still lets me pet sit for him the last 6+ years, frequently)

    Insulin vials usually have a metal band around the top of the vial. You may want to check and make sure your microwave is ok, since any metal placed in the microwave can cause sparking and damage the parts inside.

    3 Units may be way too much, especially after the change to lower carb food.
    Plus you use the Alphatrak meter.
    Dosing protocol for Prozinc we use here suggests starting at 0.5U or 1U.
    You may want to seriously consider restarting at the 0.5U dose.
    17 days since diagnosis isn't very long.

    History of Ketones? DKA?

    Once the insulin is in your cat, you can't take it back out. Better to start with a lower dose.

    Different flavors of food are fine. Some cats like one flavor better than another one or a picky eaters. Doesn't sound like Sirius is a picky eater right now. Does sound like he needs a tad more food.

    p.s. We have overloaded you with information. I think it's time to back off a bit, let you reread what we have said and then ask more questions when you need to. Information overload.
     
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  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
  15. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Hey Wendy I was just re reading what meter she said she was using

    Here is what Krystie said above
    His BG was 176 (ReliOn Premier Classic meter). This was about an hour and a half after him eating about 1/4 of a can of FF. That was at just about 8:30pm last night.
    Did I miss something, just want to make sure we know what meter she is using
    @Deb & Wink
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
  16. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Sorry, though I saw AT in the signature. Even with the Relion those are reasonable numbers.
     
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  17. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Deb I think she is using the Relion Prime please see #15. Just wanted to make sure we know what meter she is using
     
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  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Human meter in any case. Relion Prime or Relion Premier.
    Krystie should verify that for us.
     
  19. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    I agree
     
  20. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Sorry for the delay in responses, I was called into work unexpectedly to deal with an issue. I’m going to answer everyone now!
    The meter I’m using is the Relion Premier Classic, human meter.
     
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  21. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Thank you, Deb. I thought my Vets request to increase his dose to 3units twice a day was a little crazy, but this was after I brought him in for a BGL, as I didn’t have a meter yet, and I was leaving for travel the next day. I can’t Remember his exact level at the vet, but it was still high 300s. They use the alphatrack meter there. He has been on low carb diet since he was diagnosed. No contraband food either. Last night during testing was the first time he’s had a kitty treat since being diagnosed as well.

    No DKA. Still trying to get some urine from him to test his ketones properly. Fingers crossed, as he hates change and is avoiding his litter box.
     
  22. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    First, breathe. Second, find some chocolate -- you deserve a treat. (I'm glad he's not my boyfriend because I would have beaten him senseless. I'd also inform him he owes you for a new Rx of Prozinc.)

    You've gotten a ton of good information.

    Did you happen to contact Chewy's? They now have a pharmacy and they sell Prozinc. (I linked the information.) You will likely need a prescription. They ship very quickly.
     
  23. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Thanks so much, Sirius is a handsome boy, , if you can just add the meter to your signature that would be great
     
  24. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Signature updated to include our new meter!
     
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  25. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018
    Great
     
  26. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    My threshold for potential violence again the dummy bf is getting scarily low. Hahhaha. Kidding. He does know he will be purchasing the new bottle of ProZinc, and he’s perfectly happy to comply with that. (Pretty sure he’s afraid of me right now, he told me I’ve been eerily calm with him about this. Lol)

    I did try Chewys, and unfortunately without the Rx they could not sell it to me. Now I know I need backup Rx’s for everything. It was certainly a thought before, but I never thought in such a short amount of time I would have an emergency like this. Especially at the hands of someone else.

    Foraging for chocolate now. Maybe some wine..
    Thank you!
     
  27. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If there's a way to reach your vet, the vet can call in the Rx. I'd also suggest you ask the vet to take a photo of the Rx and email it to you in case of some other emergency. Unfortunately, bottles can drop on the floor, your cat can use the vial as a hockey puck, etc. Things like that usually happen on holiday weekends. It helps to have a back-up. (You would likely need to have an. undated Rx. They are good for only a year unless you are ordering out of Canada.)
     
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  28. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Hello, Veronica!
    Once I can replace his insulin and get back on track I will make sure to keep food from him for the 2 hours prior to testing. I just pray by that time he lets me test him more easily by myself.
    Once I found out his insulin was bad I knew that I should test him a few times a day throughout the weekend to make sure he’s not so high he may go DKA. I immediately sent bf to get ketone strips and more glucose test strips once he told me of his blunder. I’m going to try adding some water to his FF, hopefully he will provide me with some urine to test. He had the smallest pee earlier, but he’s not so keen on me interrupting him, and he hates change, so he was avoiding the box altogether.
    I am determined, so he’s probably going to be annoyed with me this whole weekend. Lol
     
  29. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    I tried calling his office as soon as I found out about his insulin, unfortunately he closes his office at 5pm and doesn’t return until Monday at 10am. I did leave a (frantic) message hoping he would check them at some point over the weekend, but I haven’t heard back. And yes, now I’ll have hard copies of Rx’s for everything. I will have Chewy send the request for the Rx on Monday as well.
     
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  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    How is the microwave? Have you laid in a good supply of chocolates? Essential item for your hypo kit. And days when Sirius does not want to be tested.:(
     
  31. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Hello Deb!
    I treated myself to some chocolate covered pretzels last night. I normally go for straight chocolate, but figured something with a little crunch might help my need to crush something. And, it did! Hahaha
    The microwave seems to be fine, as I’ve heated up his ear warming rice sock a few times now.

    I am happy to say, that little bugger allowed me to catch some fresh urine (exactly as I was about to walk out the door last night to go get my treat), and he’s negative for ketones! Also, I was able to test him again this morning, (boy was he fighting it) and his BGL was 188 with my Relion meter. I made sure that he was fasting; He hadn’t had any food at that point for at least 3 1/2 hours. So I’m pretty sure that’s an accurate reading.

    As soon as I get his insulin I’m going to set up his spreadsheet. He will not receive his first shot of insulin until tomorrow night now, so I will definitely test before I shoot, and probably will post asking for dosing help. The 3 units his Vet increased him to seems like it’s too much, even with a BGL of 188 reading today. I love my Vet, but I’m pretty sure he’s not a diabetes pro.

    Thank you for all of your support, and especially for checking in on me today. I can’t even express just how much that truly means to me.
     

    Attached Files:

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  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Ketones negative! Excellent picture of the test strip and the vial. Aren't screenshots wonderful?:)

    You know how they say that "Sometimes you need a vacation from your vacation?" Well, I think you do. Hope you are someplace safe and warm and have some sunshine today where you are. Sun always helps lift my spirits.
    Or a hot fudge sundae, with homemade maple walnut ice cream, whipped cream on top, no extra nuts.

    BG of 188, no insulin, only a couple weeks into diagnosis. Not sure I'd do the 3U of Prozinc.

    Have you seen
    BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS and
    PROTOCOL FOR PROZINC / PZI ?
    Some guidelines we've put together with helping many diabetic cats over the decades.

    p.s. Calmer now? Boyfriend allowed back in the house?:mad:
    p.p.s We threw so much information at you yesterday, that you may want to reread back through this thread. Lots of good information there.
     
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  33. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    188 with no insulin= awesome. Sirius is doing great. And with that low a level, I just wanted to say that I think Deb's suggestion of a .5 dose would be a great place to start. Sirius is not out of the woods yet, but it's clear his pancreas is interested in making some insulin. A light dose of the ProZinc might give it the time it needs to heal more. Glad he is getting better about testing. If he is headed toward remission, pre-shot testing and getting some mid cycle tests when you can is going to be super important. Watch those numbers and don't be afraid to skip a dose if you need to.
     
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  34. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Or ask for help here and learn the stalling technique.

    "The proper sequence for dosing prozinc insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. In the beginning, if your cat’s BG is not up to at least 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, if your schedule allows, you can stall (without feeding) for 20+minutes, then retest the BG. You are looking for a number that is rising, not falling and up to 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}. If you stall once, but can’t do another round of stalling and your cat hasn’t reached a BG of 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L}, you’ll need to skip the dose and wait until the next cycle. NOTE: Because pet-specific meters (such as the AlphaTrak2) often read higher than human meters, you may want to adjust the NO-SHOOT number to 225 mg/dL {12.5 mmol/L} or even 250 mg/dL {14 mmol/L} This gives you an added margin of safety when using an AlphaTrak2 or other pet-specific meter."

    Quote is from the BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS
     
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  35. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Boy do I ever! It’s all clouds and coldness here in the northeast. But, Kitty has been a major snuggle bug today, so I’m completely happy to spend the day home with him. Trying to get back into his good graces and all.

    I read the ProZinc Guide when he was first diagnosed, I definitely have to go back over it now that I have a general understanding of this all. I think I read too much, too fast, and just completely overwhelmed myself.

    ***I thought I this reply posted last night. I must have missed the button. So sorry!
     
  36. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

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    Jan 26, 2020
    Sadly I tested him just now this morning, and his BGL is 232. I know I stressed him out trying to test him, he was really hungry and just fought me the entire time. But that much of a rise from yesterday’s number has me disappointed. Maybe it was the treats? I hate that he’s so high right now, and he won’t get his insulin until later tonight.
     
  37. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Krystie, try not to worry. He hasn't had insulin for a while now, and 232 isn't that bad, Yes, it's high, but it hasn't skyrocketed. Diabetes is a crappy disease, but it's a slow moving one. It takes time to do damage. A week of higher numbers is a setback, but that's all it is. Early on, Billy fought me on some of the tests, especially when he was hungry. But the thing is, once the test was over, he was over it. He went right back to his normal self. I don't think it stressed him nearly as much as it stressed me. I bet Sirius isn't as stressed by the test struggle as he seems at the time. Deep breaths until tonight. And if his BGL is still over 200 tonight, then maybe give him one unit. If it's less than 200, you might consider .5 of a unit, and if it's under 150 (probably not, but just in case) don't give him anything at all.
     
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  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Working on that spreadsheet?
     
  39. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Don't worry too much it raised but not too much and don't stress right now as to why it just confirms the fact that he needs a bit of insulin but I agree that only a bit no more than 0.5 and I think you need to start practicing measuring 0.25 if you haven't yet because you will probably need to give just a very small amount sometimes
     
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  40. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Not yet, as I haven’t had his insulin. Once I get his new vial tonight, I’ll start his spreadsheet. If his numbers from over the weekend when he didn’t get any insulin ate still needed for it, I saved them.
     
  41. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I’m going to have to get new syringes with smaller markings. My U40’s only have full unit measurements. Poop, I should have asked his Vet to write up the Rx for them.
    Funny story; his Vets office called me early this morning to tell me they don’t have his insulin either. Thank goodness one Vets office in this area carries it, and are allowing me to bring his RX with me to pick up a vial. I didn’t want to wait any longer!
     
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  42. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    One more question: I want to post here when I test him later, before shooting. Where would be the best place (with quickest reply) to ask dosing questions? The ProZinc thread, or the Welcome and Main Forum thread?
     
  43. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    There's always more eyes in the Welcome and Main.
     
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  44. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Comedy of errors. Glad you did manage to find a vet's office that did have the Prozinc in stock. Don't worry Krystie, we'll help you get Sirius back on track.

    There are ways to dose a U40 insulin with a U100 syringe. It's usually used by more advanced members, with at least a months worth of spreadsheet data, good handle on the home testing, switched over to a low carb food.. You're not ready yet. Trust me on that one.

    Either way, obtaining insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel will be useful.

    Welcome and Main for more people to see your posts.

    p.s. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge is giving you the side eye. Have any good food to share with him? I hear that chocolate covered pretzels are good.
     
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  45. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, I haven’t gotten a reply in the main welcome section so.....
    Sirius’ BGL is at 178. His Vets recommended dose is 3 units, but I think that’s too much. Advise, please?!?
    Background, he hasn’t had insulin in at least 3 days. Probably more like 7 days at this point. His original does at diagnosis was 2 units, then a recheck 4 days later, his Vet increased his dose to 3 units. (His BGL was somewhere in the high 300’s at that point. They use an AlphaTrak.)
     
  46. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Can you stall without feeding and retest? In about 20 minutes after that 178 BG reading?
    Want to see if the BG is rising or falling.

    If rising and > 200, I would suggest no more than 0.5u of Prozinc.
     
  47. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Unfortunately he ate already. I tested him right at 7. He was starving, I wanted to make sure he didn’t eat for the 2 hours prior to testing him, so I took his food away around 3:30. I held him off as long as I could, and fed him at 7:30. He eats small meals, very frequently. Ugh, now I’m nervous.
     
  48. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Don't be nervous. A typical "no shot" number for newbies like us is anything less than 200. At 178, stalling is certainly an option, but the skip won't hurt him. The lowest I ever injected Billy was at 177, I think, and that was .25 of a unit. (or as close as I could estimate.) Sirius obviously still needs insulin, but I'm 100% with Deb about no more than .5 of a unit, when his sugar is high enough to shoot, or you can stall until it is. You might even want to try a .25 dose, but Deb is a better judge of dosing than I am. My best guess is Sirius just needs a token amount of insulin to let his pancreas finish healing.
     
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  49. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I’m going to skip his shot tonight, and retest in the morning when I’m more comfortable with shooting a small dose. They syringes I have only show full units, so I’m going to have to be clear eyed and confident of what I’m drawing up.
    Thank you for the reply.
     
  50. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You can always take one syringe to use as a practice syringe. Try using some colored water with your practice syringe.
     
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  51. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Fantastic idea with the colored water, Deb!
     
  52. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    BGL 202 this morning. A slight rise, but I can’t guarantee that he didn’t have a mouthful of food soon before. He breath smelled suspiciously of wet food when he gave me wake up kisses, and I noticed that he has some little chunks of his FF under his dish. I don’t know if that little sneak had a bite before he woke me. At any rate, the time between the possible food and his test was about half an hour. He’s right above the no shoot number, so I think I’m going to try my hand at .5 of a unit.
    @Deb & Wink, what do you think?
     
  53. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Krystie,

    Only just signed on to the message board and saw your tag.

    Did you shoot already?
     
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  54. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Good morning, Deb.
    I did. Is that bad?!?
     
  55. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    No, simply monitor Sirius if you are home to test.
    Do you have to go to work soon?
     
  56. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ugh, I’m already at work. I waited as long as I could before I had to leave. I can probably go check on him soon though. I’m lucky enough to work pretty close to my house, and (knock on wood) it’s relatively quiet here this morning. Should I not have shot? I gave him .5.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020 at 8:01 AM
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Giving the shot of insulin is fine.
    That is a nice low dose with the 0.5U dose.
    Maybe a lunch time check? Around the middle of the 12 hour AM cycle would be good.
    +5 +6, +7, one of those 3 times would be good. Not looking for you to do them all.
    Are you able to do that?
    Did you leave some food out for Sirius to snack on while you are away at work?
     
  58. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, I was starting to panic. (What’s the mantra, “deep breaths”? Lol)
    I can do that, I can test at whichever is the best time to do so. He has a small snack size amount of FF, but maybe I’ll sneak out just to make sure he has more available to him.
     
  59. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If sneaking out from work is possible, and you feel like doing that then go. It will help to reassure you.
    Yes, mantra is "deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release." :) It's mindfulness breathing or concentrating on your breath to help you fall asleep or used during yoga.

    I would not be worried about checking sooner than 2 hours after the shot. At +2 to +3 is fine.

    Have you thought about getting a timed feeder?

    p.s. I snuck out from working at a retail store a few times with Wink. There was someone else there, but did not really know how to run the cash register. Fastest trip home, BG test and drive back to the store. 15 minutes top. Don't rush the drive.
     
  60. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I’ve always wanted to try yoga, just gotta get up the nerve first!

    Oh yes, I’ve been researching them. It seems like I have to choose between one with the option to use cold packs, or the option to be able to record a voice message. I haven’t found one that has both. I’m thinking the one with voice message will help him to know when he can eat, and maybe regulate that crazy snacking of his a little better. I can always freeze the portions that would be for his later meals.
    I’m going to search around the internet and see if I can find a Chewy first order discount code. I want to order better syringes too.

    Omg! I WISH testing was that easy for us! As of right now I’m pushing 30 minutes of struggling. I try to keep it as stress free for his as possible, so I let him go for a bit to calm down after a failed attempt. Lots of snacks, and lots of breaks with bribes to come back. He’s a stubborn old man, so I’m not sure I’ll ever get him quicker than maybe 15 minutes. Here’s hoping though.
     
  61. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    In another week or so, you'll have the breathing down pat. Then I'll teach you Child's pose. :joyful: Great for stretching out the back and relaxing the whole body.

    I think Wink was easy to test because 1. out of the shelter, 2. determined foster mom, 3. he was feeling like crap, 4. away from 20+ other cats in a tiny little room at the shelter, 5. had his own comfy place, my spare bathroom until I integrated him with my other cat. 6. Halo Liv-a-Little chicken freeze dried treats. (at Chewy)

    He absolutely loved the Halo Liv-a-Little chicken flavor treats. It's one of the things I used to transition DFAA Wink from dry to wet food.
     
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  62. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2019
    Yoga is great- I do it a few times a week. I started for the physical benefits, but it really does help with stress and relaxes you (even when you're doing intense yoga versus slow paced). I highly recommend it! It's good for physical and mental health. :)
    I have the Cat Mate C500, and although it doesn't have a voice message, it does make a noise when it's rotating to the next meal, and as soon as Socks hears that noise, he goes running! I love it when I'm home (or watching on the security cam) when it's time for a snack, because he's so funny rushing to get his snack.
     
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  63. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
     
  64. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    dropped the end ] when you did the reply, so your text got buried in the orange reply box.

    "That sounds amazing.
    I’m going to have to try those specific treats. I made a trip to the pet store last night to get some good bribery morsels, but he wouldn’t even lick the freeze dried salmon treats I got him. Go figure."

    Some cats like little pieces of home cooked chicken as bribes. Or the Pure Bites freeze dried treats. Anything that is pure protein. Does Sirius like cheese?
     
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  65. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    The main reason I’ve been wanting to try yoga is the mental benefits. I have a hard time letting go of stress. And who doesn’t want to be able to touch their toes, and put socks on without struggling?!? Hahahah.

    Then maybe Sirius will associate the noise of the feeder to his food too! One can hope. He’s pretty clever, but oh so stubborn. He takes his old man title very seriously. Lol.
    Im sorry, I’m still getting the hang of the site. I didn’t even notice my blunder. Thank you for deciphering that.

    He likes meats way more than cheese, so I’ll have to try out some more of the meaty treats. He loves tuna, but I’d rather not give him canned tuna. All that mercury! Yikes!
     
  66. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    My cats would not eat the freeze dried salmon either. I think they didn't like the texture, it was kind of tough. But Billy loves his freeze dried chicken.

    You know, you could use just a couple bites of stinky tuna if he likes it. Not forever, because you are right about it not being the healthiest thing to feed him. But a couple little bites at testing time until you guys get into the swing of things might work well. Once he knows test = treat, you could go to a healthier snack.
     
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  67. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    +6 BGL= 92.
    I think I did that right; six hours after his morning shot his BGL is 92.

    The tuna was a real motivator for him this time around! I hope I can find a healthier treat that he enjoys just as much. He’s eating more FF now.
     
  68. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Nice number for the mid-cycle. You don't want it going much lower, so leave some food for Sirius before you head back to work.

    p.s. He may not need as much insulin as he is getting.


    p.p.s.
    Can't get my socks on without stretching exercises in the AM. Old and creaky joints.
     
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  69. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Thank Cat I didn’t give him 3units!!!

    He ate almost all of the FF I gave him before I headed back to work, and he didn’t seem as upset with me post stick. And only 2 pokes to get a good sample!

    My question now is, should I try for .25u at his next shot of his BGL is around the same as his morning reading? (His AMPS was 202)
     
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    It depends.
    On what the PMPS is this evening.
    Depends on what any other additional tests you can get in this AMPS cycle tell us.

    Do you get home from work tonight a bit before the PMPS? Test then. Even 1 hour earlier would be good data to have.

    Depends on seeing some SS data or a list of the BG readings listed in this post. See below for example.

    So I'm not working in the dark with my eyes closed and one hand tied behind my back, while hopping on one leg, singing the "I'm a little teapot" song off-key, in front of a packed house at Carnegie Hall, being televised, while I have laryngitis.

    Since you still don't have the SS set up, I need you to put the blood glucose readings you have for the last 10-14 days into the next post. List them from the most recent to the oldest.

    List them in our + hours format. Each day can go on one line. Click on the blue highlighted text to read the explanation. It will open the document for you. Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

    AMPS is your pre-shot BG test for the morning cycle. PMPS is your pre-shot BG test for the evening cycle.
    2/11/20 AMPS 202 +6 92 etc PMPS xx + whatever hour BG reading for that test time.
    2/10/20 AMPS xxx + ? PMPS xxx + ?
    2/09/20 AMPS xxx +? PMPS xxx + ?
    2/08/20 AMPS xxx + ? PMPS xxx + ?

    p.s. SS is so much easier to read. Can be done on pc, laptop, tablet, smartphone. Excellent directions on how to do this are here. FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions We have a template you can use. You do not have to create this spreadsheet from scratch.

    What it all means is here: Understanding the Spreadsheet/Grid

    Computer skills not up to it? Please let me know, I'll tag someone to help you.
     
  71. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Just got a +10 hour BGL: 170. (It was more like 10 and a half hours though. I got stuck in traffic)

    Im working on setting up his SS now. Although, I don’t have very much info. I only just started testing him Friday night. And I didn’t get a reading twice a day every day.

    EDITED TO CORRECT.....+10.5 hours (not 11.5)
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020 at 5:01 PM
  72. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Krystie, whatever SS data you have is going to be useful. Don't worry about only starting to test Sirius on Friday night.
     
  73. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    My SS is done, but I don't believe its correct. While learning to test him over the weekend, these times were sporadic. I wasn't sure how to enter those on the SS, since I wasn't giving insulin. Example:
    Line 1 is from 02/07/20 (Friday after I learned about his insulin). His BGL wasn't tested until 8:55pm, and he didn't receive insulin.
    02/08/20 I was only able to test him once, at 1:45 pm.
    02/09/20 He was tested once at 9:50am
    02/10/20 @6:42am (which is going to be his normal testing time), and again @ 6:58pm. But again, no insulin given.

    So I'm unsure how I should record those times that were sporadic, and there was no insulin given. Should I enter the readings in the + sections that would correlate with what that time frame should have been? Example: on 02/08 his 1:45pm test would be +6.5 hours after his morning shot this morning. (I hope this makes sense)
     
  74. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Sporadic test times are ok.
    It does not matter that you were not giving insulin.
    I would put the BG readings in the columns that correspond to what his normal test times would be.
    So yes, in the + columns that would correlate to the the 12 hour dosing cycle.
    The + times that the time frame should have been.

    So for 2/8/20 your AMPS is at 6:42 am(normal AM test time going forward.
    The 2/8/20 test was at 1:45 so that is +7 (close enough) (elapsed time between 6:42 and 1:45 is 7 hours)

    PS tests are at 0 hours. Each subsequent test in the same dosing cycle is entered on the spreadsheet in the appropriate + cell for that cycle.

    Got it?
     
  75. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Maybe a note on your SS in the remarks column, explaining that your boyfriend put the Prozinc in the microwave to heat up the insulin and that is why no dose was given 2/7/20 through 2/10/20. Another note in today's Remarks column that you got a new bottle of insulin.
     
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  76. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Got it...I think.
    Can I update his SS on my phone? (iPhone). I haven’t figured it out yet.

    PMPS is 149. Should I give him .5u?
     
  77. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ok, I don’t have it. Where is the remarks section?
     
  78. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If you have a smartphone, you need Google Drive and Google Sheets on your phone.

    "Go to the App Store if you have an Apple device"
    " Download Google Chrome, Google Drive, and Google Sheets apps onto your device. "
    "7. You can access your SS on your device for editing through the Google Sheets App."

    Quotes are from the spreadsheet setup instructions. Yes, other people have been able to update the SS from their phones.

    Remarks column is on the far right hand side. You will have to scroll over to the right, after the +11 cell for the PMPS dosing cycle to find the Remarks column.

    The SS can not be updated from within the message board. That version of the SS is "view only". You edit it from your google account.

    p.p.s. From Deb, who still has a landline, with a corded headset and an old flip phone as a cell phone.
     
  79. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Hahaha Deb I have family that won’t give up their land line, nor their flip phones. If it ain’t broken...

    I decided to skip his dose, and that number seems really low. I can always give it now, if that’s not advisable...?
     
  80. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    With a PMPS of 149 I would recommend skipping the shot.
     
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  81. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Thank you, Deb.

    I was reading in the ProZinc threads that the dose shouldn’t be changed for at least 3 cycles, to get a good idea of how the insulin is effecting kitty. I also read in the advanced thread that 6 cycles is also recommended before making any changes. I’m wondering if I should start with a .25 or a .50 dose in the morning (granted he doesn’t have an amps number under 50mg/dl), and continue for the recommended 3 cycles? I don’t have consistent data just yet, but it worries me that his nadir today was lower than 50% of his amps.

    The dosing info in that sticky isn’t very helpful when it comes to numbers under 250mg/dl...unless I’m missing it. Which is very probable. I’ve read that the no-shoot number is 200. Yes, ECID. And yes, I don’t have enough data yet. My head is spinning trying to decide to shoot him at low numbers like he’s had most of today, or not to shoot..? My head is going to explode.

    amps 202
    +6 92
    +10 170
    Pmps 149

    I’m thinking I should post in the ProZinc threads at this point.

    Thank you so much for listening, helping, and reassuring me throughout the last few days.
     
  82. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If you want to move over to the Prozinc ISG, that is fine. I'll be one of the people mentoring you over there too.

    I wouldn't recommend more than 0.25U in the morning. But Sirius's pre-shot will need to be high enough.

    I realize you did not give insulin this evening, but if you have a chance to get a +2 or +3 tonight, I'm curious what the numbers will be. Then if you are still normally up later, a test right before you go to bed.
     
  83. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Ugh, I wasn’t able to get another test in before I fell asleep on the couch. I will test him in the morning; am I still aiming for a number above 200 to shoot? I will be testing him around 6:30am/7:00am.
     
  84. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    It is fine to post here as well at the moment. More eyes here.
    Yes I would aim for 200 or above to shoot at this stage.
    Are you testing for ketones at the moment? I would if I were you as you are having to skip quite a few doses.
    You just need to buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and collect a urine sample and dip the test strip into the urine and read the result exactly 15 seconds later against the colours on the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
     
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  85. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I agree with no shot unless it's above 200. If it's over say, 170, you could try a drop dose. By drop dose I mean so little your like "Wow! I can hardly tell there's any insulin in there." I never actually did that with Bill, though I was considering it when he started skipping doses.

    I agree with you and Deb about trying .25, if he's high enough to shoot. His pancreas is definitely on the mend. Even if he's well over 200, I'd do that .25 dose. Sirius is coming down closer to normal range with no insulin. I'm not saying he might not need a little more, he might, but err on the side of caution. The last thing you want now is a hypo event.

    Huzzah for the tuna helping! Once he gets in the habit of test = treat, you should be able to give him something healthier.
     
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  86. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I tested for ketones last on 2/08/20 (Saturday). He was negative. I figure I’ll test his for certain once a week, and more if I can...if he lets me near him. Saturday was an all day ordeal. He was holding his pee, he didn’t want me near him while he’s in his box. At that point I estimate that he had already had at least 6 missed doses.
     
  87. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Amps 188. (This is actually about + 11.5, but I’m hoping that’s close enough) I’m going to try to stall...
     
  88. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    BGL fell to 179. Updating ss, not shooting this morning. :banghead:
     
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  89. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Good morning Krystie.
    Sirius is serious about not getting insulin anymore.:joyful:

    He still needs the tiniest bit of insulin I think.
    You can try the 0.25U with the U40 insulin syringes if Sirius is over 200 blood glucose (BG)

    If Sirius needs even less insulin than that 0.25U measured with the U40 syringes, you will need to learn "drop dosing". And maybe learn how to use U100 syringes with a U40 insulin.

    Drop dosing description for you. I'm helping someone else with this method. @Kerri & Tigger
    1. First of all, you will want some U100, 3/10 cc volume insulin syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel.
    Yes, I know you are using Prozinc, but there is a conversion chart for using U100 syringes with a U40 insulin.
    Insulin conversions, U40 to U100 document. I highly recommend you print a copy.

    2. Take an old used U100 insulin syringe, or a new one and put some tape around the top edge of the barrel, the plunger end of the insulin syringe. Blue painters tape, duct tape, masking tape, whatever you have.
    So you don't mistake it for a syringe you can use for insulin.
    This is your "practice" syringe.

    3. Then you will want to practice and see how many drops you can get with drawing up to the 0.25U "line".
    You have to "guesstimate" where the 0.25U would be, about halfway down from the 0.5U mark on the insulin barrel.

    4. How many drops do you get from the U100 syringes if you draw the liquid up to the 0.25 unit "line"?
    Practice, practice, practice until you get a consistent number of 4 drops.
    Maybe use grape or apple juice in your "practice syringe" Then let me know.

    5. For a single drop of insulin, draw up the tiniest bit of insulin you can, push as much of the air out towards the needle end of the syringe as you can with that 'finger flick'. Needle is pointed up towards the ceiling as you are doing the 'finger flick'.

    6. Twist the plunger sslooooowwwly to squeeze out most of the insulin until you have a tiny drop at the end of the needle. Then draw back on the plunger to "suck' that tiny bit back into the syringe.

    7. There is this http://steverapaport.com/jock/SyringeFineGradations/ that shows a bit more detail for drop dosing. It shows pictures of the tiny drop of insulin on the end of the insulin syringe.

    Urine Catching tips for you.
    With the missed insulin, you need to get a ketone test sooner than this weekend.
    Try the plastic wrap trick in the litter box.
     
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  90. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I know it's frustrating, believe me I do. But Sirius is really reaching for that remission. Yes, he's still a little bit too high, but it's such a positive sign. Hang in there!
     
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  91. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Good morning, Deb!
    I printed out conversion chart, I’m going to call his Vet to see if I can get some of those syringes today. If not I’ll order them from Chewy. I’m even afraid to try to dose .25u in my syringes, I don’t think my eyes are that good. Also, nerves. Lol. Looking at the conversion cart, can I Dose .25u in the U100 syringes? The conversion table says .2 = .5....is that close enough for a .25u dose? Or should I stick with the U40 syringes for a .25u dose?

    Im going to try the plastic wrap again, but I think I’ll cut apart a contractors garbage bag, they’re much thicker. I tried with the Saran Wrap, but his nails ripped right through it. And by the time I got out there to try to test, the litter absorbed too much of the urine for it to be a good test. I’ve tried the popcorn method too. He’s very private about his litter box, and is very suspicious when anything changes. I was worried about him not going that day, but he was just holding his pee until I wasn’t lurking or trying to trick him. Poor guy went in and right back out, several times without going just because something in his box changed.

    The drop dosing is intimidating, but it definitely seems like he still needs a very small amount, so I’m going to nail this for him!
     
  92. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Juls I keep telling him that, but I think its falling on deaf ears! Hahahhaha
     
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  93. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, that 0.2 U dose is close enough. You do need to get syringes that are U100 3/10 cc volume, half unit markings on the barrel, needle length is your choice. You will need a prescription from your vet to order them at Chewy.

    ADW diabetes also carries U100 insulin syringes. They have more choices.

    Not sure which ones have 1/2 unit markings on the insulin syringe barrel. You do NOT want 0.5 cc (sometimes says 0.5ml) syringes.
     
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  94. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You might think about getting a pair of those magnifying "readers" at the pharmacy/drugstore. The kind that people wear when their close up vision starts to go and they need to see close up better. But don't want to get an eyeglass prescription - yet.
     
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  95. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    +8 BGL = 156.
    No shoot for the last 32’ish hours...????
    Should I try for .25u if he’s around the same numbers at his pmps? (Picture of my syringe attached)
     

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  96. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    That picture is a U40 syringe with 1/2 unit markings. I can tell it's a U40 syringe because in the USA they have a red cap. (thanks for the nice clear screen shot/picture of your syringe. Picture is even in focus!)

    Shorter lines on that syringe are the 1/2 unit marks.
    The line below the "1" labeled line is 0.5U.
    Halfway between the 0.5U and the syringe needle would be 0.25U.

    Do you think you can "eyeball" or "guesstimate" that 0.25U dose on your syringe?
    Feel free to take another screen shot and post it showing the syringe plunger in the correct position.
     
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  97. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    If Sirius's BG level at PMPS is > 200, I'd try for the 0.25u dose. IF you are around to monitor tonight.
     
  98. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Oh yes, I’ll remain home with him.
     
  99. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    I’m going to try it with colored water, and take a pic for you to see before I do it. I had to run back to work, so his pmps will be his next test. I’ll try to get that around 6:30/7:00 tonight to give time for uploading the pic of my .25 attempt before I shoot. If he needs it..
     
  100. HelloKrystie

    HelloKrystie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2020
    Kind of an off-topic question:
    His poor ear is really starting to look red and ouchy. I know he’s definitely in pain at this point, because he's flinching when I even try to give him head scratches. :( I make sure to hold his ear a few seconds (10 at least) after I poke him, and I put some Neosporin with pain relief on it too. He will not let me touch his other ear. Aside from paw testing (which I’m really against) is there anything I can do? I’m afraid he’s going to get a hematoma, or something like that on his ear. Will he develop scar tissue if I keep poking him in the same place? I try to move it, but it seems like he only bleeds if I like him in a very small area. The sweet spot is really only so big too. (It doesn’t help that he’s black.)
     

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