No sure what to do!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Chelsea's Mom, May 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Hey all... Chelsea came home from the vet today. While I was there, the vet showed me how to give injections. Unfortunately, she did this BEFORE Chelsea was supposed to eat dinner. She said not to worry about it and that Chelsea could just eat at home. Well, I have had her home now for 2 hours and she refuses to eat. Is this okay??? I am searching the internet for answers and figured I would ask here as well... Thanks in advance! This is my first night with her since diagnosis..... :/
     
  2. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    What type of insulin is she on? It does make a difference to how important it is for her to eat around shot time.
     
  3. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Two possibilities:
    1) She could be in ketosis, breaking down fat for energy. You can test this with KetoStix, KetoDiaStix, or a generic version of those. Generally behind the counter at pharmacies.
    2) If her glucose was high, the insulin may be allowing her to use it for energy so she wouldn't be hungry. When the glucose gets low enough, that should trigger some hunger. Are you home testing yet? You need an inexpensive human glucometer, matching test strips, and lancets for alternate site testing (25-28 gauge).
     
  4. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    and what are you feeding her?
    If the vet gave you something different, it could be doesn't want it.

    try other foods....
     
  5. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Oh boy... What a mess... Okay, the vet prescribed 1 unit of Lantus 2x per day. I checked her BG last night and it was 187, so I just picked up the food and she was fine. This morning however, I fed her got everything ready, checked her BG and it's 171. DO I still administer the insulin??? Also, the syringes that the vet had were different than the ones that the pharmacy gave me. I am at a loss here. We have an appointment with her regular vet today, hopefully he can clear all this up for me. I am supposed to be at work in an hour and my face is swollen from crying... I don't want to mess up and hurt her! Thanks so much guys. <3
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Insulin syringes are specifically designed for the concentration of the insulin they are measuring. For Lantus, those should be U-100, for 100 units per mL. The sizes vary - 3/10 ml (aka 3/10 cc), 1/2 mL, and so on.
    The lowest glucose between shots, or nadir, is how doses are adjusted. For Lantus, this is usually somewhere between +5 to +7 hours post-shot. Snag a test or two in that time period to see how low she is going. If below 50 mg/dL on a human meter, or below 68 mg/dL on a pet meter, the dose is too high, plus you need to feed 2-3 teaspoons of high carb food, then recheck in 30 minutes and repeat the high carb as needed to stay above those cutoffs.
     
  7. SuePea

    SuePea Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    I don't know about Lantus but when Charlie got under 200 on ProZinc, I didn't shoot him. I understand more experienced people feel comfortable adjusting doses for the lower numbers but I never got that far.
     
  8. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    We can, and do, shoot lower on Lantus than on other insulins because it's gentler in effect and works best at keeping lower numbers down rather than forcing high numbers down quickly. However, we only do that once we have enough data on the individual cat to know that it's safe. At this point, so early on and with little data to work from, I think it's too soon for Chelsea to get shots if she's under 200.
     
  9. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    I honestly don't know what to do... I had to take her to a vet yesterday (different from the hospital vet) and she instructed me that I did NOT have to check her BG every time before the shot. She said "If Chelsea eats, give it to her... If she doesn't eat, don't give it to her. But you really only need to check it every once in a while.". WTF?!?! Also, Chelsea had to be updated for her shots, so they went ahead and did that. I got her to eat dinner, but not as much as I would like her to eat, and definitely not as much as she should be eating and as instructed, gave her the shot. She was lazy and feeling icky, I could see it in her face. She slept next to me pretty much all night, but then, she started vomiting at around 2 am. I checked her BG and it was 131. I was up and down for the rest of the night checking on her. I seriously don't know what to do... This morning, I had to pretty much force feed her and she finally ate. But again, not a whole lot. I gave her the shot and left for work. I just got home and you can tell she just feels awful. I know that regulating is a process, but I feel so helpless when all she wants is to be held. She isn't even talking to me like she used to. :(
     
  10. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    OK, the "no need to test" line is one that a lot of us have heard from our vets. Some vets seem to think people won't want to bother checking their cat's BG levels often, and others seem to be convinced that it's safe to give insulin without knowing the BG level in advance. I'm not sure you're going to find many people here, if any, who would agree that that's safe for any cat. But you wouldn't give insulin to a human diabetic without knowing their BG level first, so I see no reason why it should be safe to do that to a cat either - even a fairly young child can tell you they're "not feeling good" if they're heading towards a hypo. A cat can't do that, so if anything I'd have said that knowing a cat's BG level is even more important.

    It's possible that the shots she had yesterday might have contributed to her feeling icky. My vet told me they prefer not to give annual shots to a newly diagnosed diabetic, though I think that's more their opinion than anything I can find that says it's not a good idea. And with Rosa being an indoor kitty, they might have thought it wasn't as important for her to get her boosters as it would be if she was outdoors a lot. In the same way that some humans can have a slight reaction to shots, I'd have thought it's possible that some cats might feel just a little less than 100% in the day or so after they have their boosters.

    The good thing with Lantus is that Chelsea doesn't need a lot of food on board at shot time. With the older insulins, it was important that the cat ate at shot time because the insulin would kick in fast and fairly hard and could drop them a long way quickly. Lantus takes longer to onset and is more gentle on their system, so it's not important for her to eat a lot at shot time. If she's not feeling great, maybe leaving a little food out for her all day might help...that way she can just pick at a little food when she feels like she can. You do, however, need to make sure that she's eating something at some point - is there a food that she particularly likes (even if it's not low carb for now, any food is better than no food) that you might be able to tempt her with? Even some canned tuna or maybe some cheese sprinkled on top of her regular food...anything you can find that will tempt her to eat for now is fine. Did you change her food quickly to a vet recommended one or anything? That can sometimes upset their stomach and cause vomiting.

    And for now, as long as you have time to just sit with her, maybe that's just what she needs today. If she can just relax with you then maybe she'll feel a bit more like eating. It's unlikely that she has ketones given that her numbers don't sound as though they've been high, but if you can check for them just to make sure there's not something else going on, that would be a good idea.
     
  11. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Oooooh... THANK YOU! You know, I was telling myself that all day about not giving her the BG tests as often. A human would NEVER do that. I was also telling myself the same about her shots as well. I am glad you confirmed it for me. I didn't really change her food other than taking the dry stuff away. I do have some dry food from the hospital vet that is low carb (that's what the doc said anyway) so I may just leave that down for her. Thank you so much... I am going to go check her BG now and try to feed her. It's time now and I am hoping she eats just a little. I'll definitely keep you posted. HUGS!!!
     
    manxcat419 likes this.
  12. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    For now, if she'll eat the dry food, I'd definitely let her have some of it. You've time enough to remove it gradually once she's feeling a bit better. Chelsea's had a big change in her routine in the last few days - if she's taking some comfort in the familiarity of being home with you and wanting a few bites of dry food, I'd go with it for now. :) Even longer term, you can free feed with wet food if it turns out that she doesn't like to eat a big meal all at once - lots of small meals are less strain on her pancreas. And I've never had any success insisting the cats here eat when I want them to - they all free feed all day.

    BTW - well done on getting to grips with home testing so quickly and on being determined to keep Chelsea safe even when the vet has told you they don't think it's necessary! :) :bighug:
     
    Chelsea's Mom likes this.
  13. SuePea

    SuePea Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    I had a vet who convinced me to not check Charlie's sugar before shooting him. I could have lost him because I didn't. His sugar was already low and I would have left for work and he'd have died while I was out. I checked his sugar right AFTER I fed him on a hunch and that was the end of that vet.
     
    Chelsea's Mom likes this.
  14. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Last night before eating, I checked Chelsea... 166. No shot. This morning I checked her before eating, 122. No shot. And I just checked her when I came home... 188. Had I listened to the vet, my Chelsea would have had 3 unnecessary shots of insulin!! I do believe I will be looking for a new vet!!! Chelsea is eating just fine now, a low carb diet... I will continue to check her periodically and shoot accordingly. I am a little suspicious about this diagnosis though. Seems kind of weird that she is acting normal again with normal BG levels....
     
  15. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

    Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

    The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

    Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

    From left to right, you enter
    the Date in the first column
    the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
    the Units given (turquoise column)

    Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
    If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
    and so on.

    Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
    To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

    There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

    We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

    It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
     
    Chelsea's Mom likes this.
  16. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Hey BJM! I just uploaded the spreadsheet and filed it out... If you can take a look at it for me, that would be great! I still am not sure what to do. I just read this:
    "* If you test blood glucose prior to giving insulin and the glucose level is 200 or lower, do not give insulin! Skip that dose and contact your veterinarian for further advice.

    * If you test blood glucose at any time and the glucose level is 50 or lower, do not give insulin! Give your cat approximately one tablespoon of Karo syrup or honey and retest blood glucose levels in one hour. Repeat the oral sugar dosing if the blood glucose level is still 50 or lower. Contact you veterinarian for further advice."

    I read it at this website: http://www.catclinicofcobb.com/managing-feline-diabetes.pml

    I am so beside myself on what to do... I am going to be doing a BG curve test tomorrow as I am finally home for the entire weekend (I decided to call in to my other job to take care of Chelsea). Any input you can give me would be greatly appreciated and I would be forever in your debt. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
     
  17. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Check out my signature link Glucometer Notes. If she gets over 200 tomorrow morning at the pre-shot test time, you might give 0.5 units, but otherwise, try feeding mini-meals to avoid over-stressing the pancreas' ability to handle the glucose. I think she may be trying to get off insulin, fingers crossed.

    A curve is testing every 2 hours from pre-shot (if one gets given) for 12 hours.

    Food tends to raise the glucose by about +2 from eating.

    If you give insulin, check in the +5 to +7 hours post-shot to see how low she goes.
     
    Chelsea's Mom likes this.
  18. Chelsea's Mom

    Chelsea's Mom New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Thank you very much :bighug:
     
  19. SuePea

    SuePea Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2015
    There are a few of us who had our cats come off the juice very quickly, one we had the diet part figured out. Your Chelsea could be doing the same...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page