Non-Emergency dosing/log question

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Bethany&SirDraculaDupree, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    I have been reading through all of the different information this group (FB) and the forums here to try to see if I could better manage Sir Dracula Dupree. As a note, I have started Methyl-B12 as of Jan 3rd. (this is his 3rd day with 5000mcg/day mixed with his food) (food has been recently 9L Pate varieties previous FF/F pate) and I decreased his dose (prozinc) from 0.5u to 0.25u after a 0.5u led to three no-shoot numbers in a row for three times (Dec 31 PM shot, Jan 1 AM shot & Jan 1 PM shot) dose because following the math and the number data it seemed like the best solution (changed to 0.25u for Jan 2 AM shot, also the time I changed preshoot number to around 175)

    A few things..
    I have pet advocate syringes, U40, that were recommended on one of my posts. They have half unit markers but I have been doing 0.25u as half of the 0.5 marker the most accurate I can by using the black stopper at halfway on the mark so it stays consistent.
    I know this isn't the best way to dose this, is there needles that have 0.25u markers on them?

    Also, I had decreased the dose due to stalling and then skipping his dose on Dec 30th. Then did a curve the following day which I am now thinking of was a bit dumb to interpret the data but it was the best day for me to do so with my schedule. After that I basically have kept his dose of prozinc at 0.25u with the goal of having multiple solid pre-shoot numbers in a row for consistency. His spreadsheet in my opinion looks so much better with the 0.25u but his prescribed dose from the vet is 2.0u 2x day so the 0.25u seems unusually low in my opinion but it seems to be creating a better range of numbers for him (am I wrong? I don't want to increase the dose at all if his numbers seem to be better lately with the change)
    Also a note, I have lowered the preshoot number from 200 to 175 based on the data and that myself or a family member is home to monitor him at basically all times so I have been using that as a preshoot number so I didn't have to skip doses.

    Can someone just look over all of this and my spreadsheet to see if compulsively and obsessively researching and making minute changes is bringing me and Dupree in a positive direction?
    Thank you!
     
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Bethany
    First I want to mention about the GA you have in the subject line. GA means guardian angel or gone ahead.... which we use for kitties that have passed away... so you might like to remove that from your subject line.

    the SS looks lovely. Lots of greens and you are skipping a few times due to lower Preshots. I am not a Prozinc user but will tag @MrWorfMen's Mom who can help you with dosing. You certainly don’t need to increase the dose.

    There are no syringes with 1/4 unit markings but some people use Calipers for more accurate dosing.
     
  3. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    He's looking pretty darn good for this early!

    I sure wouldn't increase his dose with those 60's in the cycles!

    So glad you joined the FB group and here and didn't go with the vet's suggestion of 2U!
     
  4. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Thank you for the reply, I must have accidentally hit the thread button as I haven't used that feature previously - my apologies!

    Thank you for the dosing info, MrWorfMen'sMom has helped me so much previously!
    I will look into calipers and see what that will entail
     
  5. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    He looks like he is doing great, the methyl B-12 did you buy it from vitacost?
     
  6. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    I am so glad I came here and the FB group instead, the shelter I adopted him from actually had been giving him 1 unit and 2 units while he was there and his medical notes as part of the reason for being put on the euthanasia list was he wasnt responding well and was sickly basically...now I know why, not enough testing and attention!
     
  7. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Yes I did, I got a buy one get one half off sale too
     
    Diane Tyler's Mom likes this.
  8. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    OK good, I think I posted it for you, did you buy the folic acid to go along with it, you would want to add 200 MCG crush it up, if you look at the zobalin which is very expensive it has 200 MCG in it. I just buy it at the supermarket 400 MCG and cut them in half.
    I'm sure if I went to a health food store or CVS, or Walgreen's I might have found the 200 MCG so I wouldn't have to cut them in half. Saw them on line googled 200 mcg of folic acid but didn't want to put them on my credit card, they are up there as it is, wanted to pay cash. So just look around
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sir Dracula Dupree is looking fabulous! You're doing a wonderful job with him! :joyful:

    I agree with the suggestion of calipers as it would be nice to not have to skip shots. In the meantime, you could try a slightly lower dose of 0.10u but lining up the rubber on the plunger just at the bottom of the zero line on the syringe. Numbers are dropping nicely for nadir but too low sometimes at pre-shot so reducing the dose might make shooting consistently better but may not pull BG down as much. The other alternative is to stay with the 0.25 dose but lower your pre-shot no shoot level a wee bit. So if now, you don't shoot any BG less than 150 back that up to 140 but only do so on a cycle you can monitor.

    Another alternative would be U100 syringes with half unit markings and the conversion chart we have here. They allow you to make dose adjustment in slightly less than 0.25u increments. Not sure what your access to syringes is like in MA and your vet might have a fit if you ask for a Rx for U100 syringes.
     
  10. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Here's great information on dosing with calipers

    If you want to consider switching to U100 syringes instead of U40, you must use this Conversion Chart but it would let you get some of those lower doses
     
  11. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    I did not however I will absolutely look at the folic acid! Thank you for posting the link!
     
    Diane Tyler's Mom likes this.
  12. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    My goal is to not be skipping shots.
    Right now I have been using about 175 as my preshoot okay to shoot number so I may then lower it a bit which I was thinking about doing already.
    I'm going to look into maybe switching to U100 needles and converting or I will adjust dose based on plunger level.
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Bethany, Started a Conversation with you. I think you live really close to me (20 minutes maybe) and I have some U100 needles if you want them.
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Bethany now has U100 insulin syringes. I told her to double check the cap color before shooting the insulin. Orange for U100 syringes, red for U40 syringes.

    And some lancets that I no longer needed.
     
  15. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Does anyone have the link to the conversion chart for using U100 syringes with a U40 insulin?

    I know the conversion is 2.5 times when using a U100 syringe with a U40 insulin. But a link to chart might help Bethany out.

    Sweet young woman, has two dogs in addition to Sir Dracula Dupree. Enjoyed meeting her in person and suggested that she read other posts here. Couldn't believe she only lives 3 towns south of me. Talk about serendipity. Glad someone could use Wink's old supplies.
     
  16. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    HERE is the link to the conversion chart. :)
     
  17. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Thank you again so much, it was so nice to meet you and get to talk for a few minutes. I enjoyed our chat. :) I will definitely be looking through the forums some more at things such as the specifics you had mentioned, prozinc forum, faqs, etc.!
    It is amazing how animals can bring people together!
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Thank you! This will be very helpful
     
  19. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    I'm a little confused on the conversion, we (my fiance and I) were looking at the needles and comparing. I decided to wait to switch this second as what I'm doing seems to be in a positive direction. The past 36 hours have been much better. Not sure if I should try to get a dose lower than the 0.1u (u40) or if I should lower my preshoot number again
     
  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Not sure what you are using as your no shoot limit right now.....guessing maybe 140 (you shot 142 the other day)? If so, you could lower that a little as long as you do it when you can monitor and just stick with the 0.1u dose for now or you could try a drop dose which is done by depressing the plunger as hard as you can before inserting the needle into the vial. When inserted, just let go and let the suction draw up a drop of insulin. It won't look like there is anything in the syringe barrel. When injecting, depress the plunger as hard as you can and hold it for a second or 2 before withdrawing the needle.

    I notice that Sir Dracula Dupree's BG came down on it's own yesterday about 3 hours after eating with the skipped shot. That indicates his pancreas is getting back to business and he just needs a little more support to get him to keep those numbers down. Not sure when you offering snacks between shot meals but food will often spur the pancreas to release insulin and that could help get the numbers down more too.
     
  21. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Yes, I apologize, forgot to mention (have now added it to spreadsheet) no shoot has been 140.
     
  22. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    What would be a safe number increment to decrease to, 130? 135?
    I don't want to go too quick. I've been trying to remember to think about the no shoot number needing to be more based on nadir than actual BG at shot time.

    I have not been doing snacks as often as I should, I didn't want to squew data too much but someone previously, (Red&Rover ) had suggested snacks.

    "A full meal at shot time, then say, snacks at +2 and +5. There is no hard and fast rule with snacks other than picking food up at +10 to make sure the preshot number is not food influenced." From my previous post:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-stalling.223205/#post-2496744
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    If you've been using 140, drop it back to 130 or even 125 but only do so when you can monitor.

    ETA feeding mid cycle doesn't skew the readings. It helps the pancreas heal, Only pre-shots need to be uninfluenced by food.
     
  24. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019
    Okay thank you! Timing wise today was hard - my first long day back to work since adopting Dupree and starting this sugar kitty dance so I'm nervous being away from him today especially with how well he is doing.
    I'm going to lower my no shoot to 130 and see if that helps, keeping at the 0.1u dose.
    I'll start giving him snacks as well. How big is a snack, should it be roughly half his meal size?
     
  25. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I'd suggest you figure out how much you want to feed Sir Dracula Dupree each day and then divide it out accordingly with a little more food at pre-shot meals and the rest divided over the number of snacks you choose to feed. Some folks feed 4 times a day, some 6 and some 8. It really depends on your cat and your ability to leave out meals. I would try to keep most food (unless you are steering a low BG up) in the first half of the cycle.
     
  26. Bethany&SirDraculaDupree

    Bethany&SirDraculaDupree Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2019

    I apologize work got crazy and I couldn't watch the thread, home now. Sir Dracula Dupree was still low 100s today even without insulin. Going to test him again shortly now that I'm getting home.

    As far as food, please bear with my terrible math skills and comprehension!
    I found a comment on the Facebook page for calorie count per day estimate. 13.6 x (goal weight) +70 =calories per day
    If that's the correct formula 13.6x11lbs=[149.6(+70) =219.60 ] so approx 220 calories per day give or take.

    [I'm estimating 11lbs as,good based on average domestic short hair hethy weight being between 10-12lbs. I need to double check with the vet tomorrow. Dupree was about 12.6lbs on shelter intake 11/12/2019. He lost weight and was about 10.4lbs upon adoption end of November, 2019. So not sure exactly what weight he should be at.]

    A can of 9Lives Super Supper (one of his food choices) according to the food chart shared via the FDMB, is 168calories per 5.5 oz can. So according to that I should feed approx 1.5 cans per day (would be approx 252 calories) split up. Between two meals and at least two
     
  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sounds about right to me. Same formula we use here. Check with the vet as to what they consider to be an ideal weight for Sir Dracula Dupree. So a can and a half per day divided by 2 meals and 2 snacks would be about 1/2 can per meal and a 1/4 can per snack for instance. Sometimes you need to play around with the timing and amount of food to see what works best for your cat.
     
  28. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    How's it going with Sir Dracula Dupree?
     

Share This Page