? Number of doses in a pen?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by FranklinsMom, Aug 17, 2017.

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  1. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    Franklin is a newly diagnosed diabetic and his first insulin shot was on August 5. He is on the Lantus Solostar pen. He is getting 3 units, twice a day. For some reason, I thought someone told me that was 50 doses of insulin. But I was looking at the pen tonight and I noticed it said 100 units (U-100) 3 ml. At 6 units a day, wouldn't that be 16 days of 6 units plus 3 units for the 17th day?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    U 100 is the type of insulin meaning there are 100 units of insulin in every milliliter . A pen will have 300 units so with you giving 6 units total per day you will have 50 days of use from a pen.
     
  3. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    I just called the pharmacy to confirm that is only 16 days. Wow! I'm going to post a more general question to the main forum. Thanks.
     
  4. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    \

    There are 100 units per ml. The pen is 3 ml so there are 300 shootable units in the pen.
     
  5. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    Yes! I just called this Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada that I have seen mentioned here for cheaper insulin ( https://rxcanada4less.com/index.html ) and they explained it was 300 units in the pen, which will be 50 days. Moment of panic! Plenty of time to get my vet to give me a prescription to send to them! Ugh. Think I need to go offline and eat dinner. :)

    By the way, the pharmacist at Marks Pharmacy said to ask for Rita when you call to set up a pet prescription. FYI.

    Thank you!
     
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  6. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Jul 18, 2011
    Hi and welcome to Lantus & Levemir Land - the nicest place you never wanted to be.

    Cats' insulin needs change frequently, so trying to figure out how many doses you will get from a pen can be very difficult.

    Since you are new, I have some questions for you: How did your vet arrive at your initial dose? It is unusual to start a cat at such a large dose unless they have been on another insulin prior. What does Franklin weigh? If you plan to follow Tight Regulation, the formula for figuring a starting dose is .25 units per kg of weight. If you want to do Start Low Go Slow, you start at .5 units if kitty is eating only Low Carb, wet food, or 1 units if eating anything else. The reason I mention this is that numbers for a kitty that is on too much insulin can often look the same as a kitty who is not getting enough.

    You seem to have done some research and are eager to learn, so I'd like to share with you a post we put together to help new members get comfortable with this forum more quickly: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/updated-tips-for-new-members.173572/

    Keep reading all the info here - there is a TON of it! Ask lots of questions - we love to help!
     
  7. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    Yes, I was just reading a post in here somewhere about cats starting out too high. I'm not sure how the vet arrived at this dose. In July of 2016, Franklin went in for his annual checkup and both he and his sister had lost about a pound from the year before. On July 5, 2016, he was 17.12 pounds. I didn't think much of it. In December I took him back in, perhaps just to be weighed. He was down another pound to 16.12. His sister was also down more, a little more than a pound. So now I'm a little alarmed. The vet wanted to do blood tests and so on. But I called my best friend to chat with her. Money was tight and I wasn't even unemployed yet! I had been feeding them Science Diet dry food for indoor cats. She suggested I move to Purina One and see if they gained weight. While talking to her I realized that in the past several months I had noticed they didn't seem to be eating as much of the Science Diet food. And I recalled many months ago, the front label had changed. So I wonder if the ingredients changed.

    I bought a baby scale and started weighing them everyone morning. It wasn't long before they were both gaining weight again. They were chowing down on this Purina One. By April 26, Franklin weighed 19.8 pounds. He's a big guy so maybe a little overweight but not much.

    Since I'm unemployed I am home more. I started noticing that Franklin was a little lethargic. He was laying around in not his usual spots, often on the floor, when he was normally a climber of bookshelves or to the window sills. I also noticed a lot more urine in the litter box. I could tell he was losing weight so I weighed him. Down to 16.3 pounds. And I noticed he had diarrhea. With the weight loss and the diarrhea, I headed to a low cost animal clinic on a Friday. She did blood tests. They had to gas him to do the blood tests and while he was out from that she tested his urine. She said the glucose level was over 500 so he was definitely diabetic. So off I went in search of insulin and when the blood tests came back on Monday, his glucose was at 449. I started him on insulin that Saturday night before we got the blood test results.

    It was later in the week when I read that there could have been a chance to have tried to control it with diet before starting the insulin. Wish I had known that a few days earlier.

    And on that visit to the vet, they told me, of course, that he had to be on the Science Diet W/D food. The vet tech offered me a choice of the dry food or the canned food. I took the dry food because it was cheaper for the long term. I went back on Monday and bought some cans of W/D food because he needs to eat something before he takes the insulin and while he was eating the dry food, I was concerned he wasn't eating enough pre-insulin. I started mixing the dry and canned food. And somewhere in all this mess, I discovered this awesome online neighborhood. I read on here that I needed to get him off the dry food. And to not use the W/D food. I wanted to use up the dry food. So I was leaving some out for him in between meals because he's hungry. I checked in with the vet about W/D and Dr. Lisa Pierson's cat food analysis. She was familiar with that and said Fancy Feast would be okay.

    We finished off the canned W/D last night and started the canned Fancy Feast this morning which I did mix with the dry. But tonight I started with just the Fancy Feast. He got slightly more than half of a can while his sister got the other half. I'm debating on offering them more food before we go to bed tonight as he has been particularly hungry in the mornings. His weight has been up and down the past couple of weeks. This morning he was at 16. 4 1/2. (His sister's weight has been fine although she has lost some since he was diagnosed. She went on a hungry strike because in the beginning she wasn't getting any canned food. She can be very stubborn. She was 15 pounds when he was diagnosed and has dropped to 14.3 1/2. But I expect that to go back up a little as we move to the regular diet of Fancy Feast. I'm wondering if his sister will ever realize that forever now, she gets canned food and will stop the anxious, excited circles she runs in at meal time now.)

    I did not do my first BG until Monday afternoon (413) and called the vet to report it. She told me she wanted the two a day BG readings for a week and then we'll go from there.

    More than you wanted to know but that is how we landed here.

    Thanks for the link for newbies. I will read it soon.
     
  8. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Cats with unregulated diabetes are essentially starving, as their pancreas isn't working to get them the nutrients they need. Losing weight is part of that. Not sure what is going on with Franklin's sister. Has she been tested? (You could try poking her ear in the morning, before she's eaten. ;))

    No such thing as too much information! We are very nosy here, and the more we know about your kitty, the better we can figure out how to help.

    I notice you are giving both kitties a Lysine treat. It contains both maltodextrin and glycerine, which are high in carbs, so not good for a diabetic. Most of us that have cats with herpes buy pure L-lysine capsules and mix it in the food. I gave Cinco 1000mg a day because he had recurrent herpes infections - 500mg in his morning meal and 500 in his evening meal.
     
  9. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    Hmmm. I told the vet I was giving him a Lysine treat and she said that was fine. Just like I do for myself when I visit a doctor, I always bring whatever treats I've been giving them to their vet visits. But in the chaos of everything, I didn't show her the actual bag of Lysine treats. This is what I give them: https://www.amazon.com/Vetri-Lysine...&qid=1503015583&sr=8-2&keywords=lysine treats I've only been giving them to him because his sister gets them. I could just as easily sneak them to her on the side. She had an eye ulcer develop shortly after I adopted them as kittens and it took 18 months to resolve. At one point she was taking two eye drops about ten or 15 minutes apart. She always got a treat after the second eye drop. She is so expectant of these treats we cannot take them away from her. :) Her eye doctor wanted her on Lysine treats for her immune system. She suspected the eye ulcer might have been the result of feline herpes. I brought them home from the shelter with a respiratory infection. I mentioned Franklin's sister is stubborn. She is also very smart. She plants herself in the kitchen after dinner, glaring at me until I remember to give her the treats. I also give them two Greenie Dental Treats in the morning and two more at night. So I'll stop that for him too. May need to come up with some treat for him though.

    Thanks.
     
  10. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    By all means, keep giving them to your civvie if she enjoys them, but most treats are not good for diabetic cats. Safe treats are freeze dried meats - chicken, turkey, salmon, etc. If you want to buy them in a pet store, buy the doggie ones - you get more and you'll save money. They're usually bigger, so you can break off pieces to give to the cats. Your civvie might end up liking them, too.

    Here's what I give my kittens, and they go crazy for it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000M8071...t=&hvlocphy=9032045&hvtargid=pla-309801702176 Note: this is a 10 lb can, so with two kittens, it will last me a LONG time!

    My civvie, Sasha had terrible issues with eye ulcers. She was on multiple drops and an ointment, several times a day. I know what it's like, for both you and the cat. Do you feel that the lysine treats are helping?
     
  11. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    Thanks. I live near a pet store. I will check out the dog side this weekend. That 10 lb can looks like it would last a long time!

    When we finally defeated the eye ulcers, the vet eye doctor said the Lysine would help her immune system. She said there is a chance they might recur, especially if she gets stressed out. Or it could be that they don't. The vet said she had a cat once who had eye ulcers and had one recurrence when the cat was about 18 years old. After reading your earlier your note, I poked around on the Web and I see there are some thoughts while Lysine was once recommended, it's not anymore by some people. So I will have to dig around some more and see what I think.
     
  12. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    My cats' ophthalmologist recommended the Lysine - which I was already giving, because I read about it here. The ophthalmologist we saw at UC Davis said it might help, but wouldn't hurt.
     
  13. FranklinsMom

    FranklinsMom Member

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    Aug 10, 2017
    I took a risk once, taking in a stray cat and allowing it in the house. She was not very happy about having a new roommate. Fortunately I found that cat a great home pretty quickly. Now I have another cat in the garage--he was abandoned by a neighbor when she moved. I'm not going to let him in the house as I don't want to take a chance with stressing her out. It's been about a year now since he moved into the garage and they all seem to know he isn't coming in the house and they aren't coming in the garage. He meows in the morning during the chaos of hungry cats dancing and waiting while I poke Franklin. I refer to him as the peanut gallery now. :)
     
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