? Numbers similar without insulin

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by AlphaCat, Jun 29, 2017.

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  1. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    So it seems the .75 dose keeps Fabby from bouncing like I believe @MrWorfMen's Mom suggested, but that also means all our numbers are staying high.

    Yesterday I had some human timing issues where she was tested, but not given her shot. Our AMPS this morning came in 100 lower than we'd been getting ON insilin. The mid day test was of course higher yesterday.

    So what do y'all make of this?
    Should we continue at .75 or bump it back up to 1 or do we need a different insulin?

    I'm just floored her numbers come in lower, or at least stay similar whether she gets her insulin or not.
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If I were you, I would decrease to 0.5u and see what that does for about 3 days barring any pre-shots too low to shoot or any very low nadirs. The fact that she is lower without insulin and staying pretty flat during the cycle suggests she is still bouncing and that could mean the dose is still too high. I wouldn't be looking to change insulin yet. I'd get the bouncing under control and give the Vetsulin a good try especially while your schedule is a bit erratic because the longer acting insulins generally are going to require a little more regimented schedule than Vetsulin.
     
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  3. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    So I gave .5 this morning, and at +6 we are at 129. I think we are about to bounce hard...
     
  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You are probably right about the bounce but just hold the dose for now as long as pre-shots are high enough to give insulin. It can take up to 6 cycles to get the bouncing to stop and when that happens the pre-shots will come down. You don't want to increase during a bounce because that can just set off a whole new bounce and create a vicious circle. I think Fabby looks great in blue! :D
     
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  5. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Heyyy look the lower dose of 0.5U gave a lower blue nadir than 0.75U :cool::cool::cool:
     
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  6. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    May 9, 2017
    So here's a food thing I was able to catch...
    at +8 overnight Fabby woke me up hungry, so I tested and fed her. She was 417. About 3 hours later she dropped to 340. A 77 number drop just with food alone.
    Is this normal?

    I'm considering making her quarantine inaccessible to visitors so I can leave food out and see if she better regulates her own BG just by having food out. We're running errands so I won't feel too guilty about closing her off.

    She's currently on quarantine lite* lol. She won't jump so she's locked in by a baby gate. There are two litter boxes in her area. One with high sides for the jumpers/high pee-ers and her little one with low sides (regular single cat box). She only uses the little one, and for the most part others stay out. I can keep track loosely what's hers, and not... but as long as she is peeing, I don't much care. We close the door for Fabby feedings, and then I go get my crystals boys and have their food on top of a dresser, because -no Fabby access... and my crystals boys are both jumpers/climbers... while the crystals boys eat the civvies are all eating on the other side of the door. When everyone's done the food is put away and civvies have access to come and visit Fabby as they please. One of my crystals boys is more comfortable in that room because he had to be on quarantine for quite a while, so named it his territory. Fabby is older, so he "allows" her presence. Plus she weighs more, and has a ferocious growl since she has no fangs, lol. Fabby gets what Fabby wants, lol.

    If we have to go to full quarantine to allow all day food access, it's solitary confinement except when we're sleeping, so very little interaction for Fabby. I'd like to avoid that, as a cat shut off in a small room just seems like no way to live. She's not a convict... prisoner of Diabetes... :(
     
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  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    There have been several times when I have been shocked at how much lower readings were after food that had been given at higher numbers as a result of a food temper tantrum. I firmly believe that when they get frantic for food their BG goes up because they are stressing out. So my theory is that the high reading of 417 could be stress elevation and that has settled but there might still be a bit of a food bump at the 340.

    I know all too well how difficult it is to have a multi-cat household and keep everyone's diets sorted. Thankfully all I have to worry about is pilfering by my two young ones. Most of my problem is with my sugar girl pilfering her younger brother's food but sometimes younger brother decides my sugar's dish is more interesting than his. The only sure fire solution to the dilemma is to get auto feeders that will open only for specific cat(s) using microchips either on a collar or those already implanted. They are pricey and harsh on the budget for a multi-cat, multi-diet household. I've thought about trying one but I also fear they might spook the cats and defeat the purpose. Could you try one for Fabby so she can be out and have access to food when she needs it and just keep the others on a meal schedule or are they all grazers.

    Grazers are a problem. My sugar girl gobbles up her chow and leaves a clean plate. My boys both graze and constantly leave food in their bowl for later pickings but I can't leave their bowls out because Menace will steal their food. I find myself shuffling dishes all over the house to encourage the boys to eat their food without Menace bowling them over and taking over their dishes.

    Unfortunately, I think feeding solutions are very individual to each of us and we all do what works for us. While segregating them isn't fun, it's sometimes the only solution to keep everyone healthy.
     
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  8. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    May 9, 2017
    I have totally considered the auto feeder. But when I was looking I was trying to figure out how to budget them for everyone. (We're at 9 currently, little beasts were being dropped off behind our house, and we adopted new ones out when we could.) I started looking at them for vacation needs because of the crystals boys. Turns out the cost of getting Fabby diagnosed could have bought one for everyone. :( I even looked at instructables to make them. One person here got a storage tub and installed an electronic cat door to keep the dog out of the cat food. That might be a low cost option if only Fabby has the tag... Hmm.
    I should check them out again just for her... It's a good idea. Thank you!
     
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    YIKES! I thought those microchip dishes were going to be too expensive with 3 little furballs....but 9 WOW! The storage tub with a cat door is a brilliant idea! I don't think it costs that much to have kitty microchipped if there are cat doors that work with the implanted chips. Maybe the cat doors come with tags to be worn on a collar??
     
  10. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    May 9, 2017
    It would be awesome if they worked with microchips. Most of mine have them. It would be neat if it could be professors that way, but I haven't heard of that.
    Currently there are 2 kings of sensors. The cheap kind is just magnet based. So whomever wears the magnet gets let in. The magnet isn't coded, so if you give a magnet to all the cats they all have access. And generally, you can have as many magnets as you want. Which will be fine for me as I'll only give Fabby the magnet tag on a collar. (Doesn't let me take a vacation though, lol. Well... Now I'm thinking... Fabby will have to be boarded due to her insulin need, but I could just convert her storage box to the crystal boys, and give them each a collar only worn while we're away... I'd have to try it out and make sure they use it, but they are all familiar with how a pet door works... Ohh the possibilities! Sorry, got off track... I have a wedding out of state I'm trying to figure out how to get to...)
    Back on track, The other kind is way more expensive, and it has a rfid chip that you add on a collar. That one only lets that specific cat in. I've seen some feeders that use these. You get a different rfid for as many cats as the feeder handles. Then when each one eats the feeder can portion control by cat. It also send how much they ate & when to an app. Those were on a group fundraising site when I was checking into them. They had met their goal, but production was a long ways off so it wasn't what I was looking for at the time. But the technology is downright awesome! Expensive of course, lol.
     
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  11. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    May 9, 2017
    Can I request a spreadsheet audit?
    I'm not seeing blues any more.
    Two changes not on the spreadsheet, Runswith was quarantined with Fabby for about 2 weeks while she was sick, so with Runswith's passing Fabby went back to being stuck by herself (unless others dared to visit.)
    The other change, since Fabby comes for food time (also testing time) we have been letting her out of the room. She's still blocked from accessing the main cat's feeding room (So she doesn't get into any crumbs dropped by the others). (Only the last 4 days with this change.)
    I have noticed her being a bit food aggressive lately. And I'm not having to chase her around with her food any more, if she eats all her serving I put down more, if she eats seconds - great, if she doesn't, no big deal.
    I guess 3 changes. Since we went to the vet a little over a week ago (maybe 2 weeks now) she's had a new vial of insulin.
    We still seem to be getting a drop of about a hundred, which is the drop we're liking for (I think) but those AMPS & PMPS numbers aren't lowering.
    Do I need to make changes?
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    She's been at this 0.5 u dose a long time and it hasn't brought her lower than mid blue. The dose is likely too low plus I suspect she's a bit stuck - ie., insulin resistant from the toxic effect of high BG. Sounds worse than it is. The way through is careful, small dose increases. Try bumping her up to 0.75 u next dose time. Do what you can to dose around her not wanting to eat occasionally.
     
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  13. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Kris, Alphacat :)
     
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  14. AlphaCat

    AlphaCat Member

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    May 9, 2017
    That was my feeling, so I'm getting the hang of this - maybe...
    Thanks for checking!!!
     
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