'nuther newbie

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by DreMeister, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Hello. Our Snickers was diagnosed with diabetes about a month ago. She has not battled it very well. Right now she has been at the vets since Thursday. She stopped eating and drinking, glucose levels fluctuating, ketoacidosis, and a respiratory infection. I'm afraid it's the end of the line for her. The vet said yesterday if she doesn't improve by Monday, putting her down would be best. I am not looking forward to that. I am hoping she'll start pulling thru but poor thing has a lot against her right now. My wife and I are not taking this well at all. Come on Snick, pull thru kitty!
     
  2. Anitafrnhamer

    Anitafrnhamer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    How distressing to hear this. But don't give up hope too soon.
    Squeaker developed diabetes due to steroid injections and the vet I was taking him to at the time was not honest with me about it. They told me he was fine. About a month later he collapsed and I took him to an ER Hospital. He was diagnosed with: diabetes; enlarged heart/liver/kidneys; severe pancreatitis; critically anemic; severe kidney infection; and restrictive cardiomyopathy. He was not expected to survive. After a couple of days he was responding well to treatment then I got a call that his BP was extremely high and they projected he would die from a massive stroke during the night. The following day I received a call that he was ready to come home. He had residual complications from the undisclosed diabetic event including congestive heart failure which he was expected to succumb to as well and ultimately renal failure. He survived for 2 1/2 years beyond all of these crises.
    I do hope Snickers has the same level of veterinary care Squeaker was lucky enough to get and that she will surprise you with the same amazing resiliency.
     
  3. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    I sincerely hope our kitty pulls thru, she is almost 11 yrs. She was just at the vet for 3 days 2 weeks ago. They got her glucose regulated. They put her on 1 unit of lantus per day. My wife would feed her in the morning then give her a shot. She was doing so well, eating and drinking normally and not peeing near as much. She was becoming her old self, then suddenly the bottom dropped out Wednesday, she laid around, not eating or drinking. I had wife take her back to vet immediately. She's been there since then. The vet's gonna call us this morning with an update. I hope it's good. We saw her yesterday and she did respond to us, then just went back to indifference. She's supposed to come home tomorrow barring she takes a turn for the worst. Her respiratory infection is really screwing things up for her recovery. They have 5 vets there. One says yeah give her a shot even though she's not eating. Another says no don't give her a shot without food. Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? Her level was 80 when she went back, and ketones in the urine. I do not want to give up on her dern it.
     
  4. Mum of two felines

    Mum of two felines Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    I am sorry to hear all this. If you have questions we are here to try to give you information. On the Lantus board your question about food could be answered. I know the infection can bring the numbers high.

    Are you home testing? It is recommended that home testing be done. That way you can see her reaction to the insulin throughout the day, without the stress at the vet.

    Look around on this site, gather information, and if you need to ask questions, post on the Health forum. If it's an emergency, like you need to have quick answers, then click on the preface and choose the ? Or 911.

    Good luck and I hope you hear good things from the vet! :bighug::bighug:
     
  5. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    My cat J.D. was a DKA survivor. He was in critical condition when he went to the hospital. He very slowly improved. I went to visit him each day. I hope your kitty will improve and survive, too.
    J.D. was at the University Of Pennsylvania School Of Veterinary Medicine. It was back in 2005. They were giving him insulin and a dextrose drip to control his BGs. His electrolytes were all out of whack which happens with DKA, so he had to stay there for a quite a while. He came home with a feeding tube. Eating is very important to survive DKA and also to not get liver problems. I am wishing Snickers the best of care, and sending healing vines.
     
  6. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If your vet or you decide on a feeding tube, don't worry about it, they save lives.
    J.D. ate on his own when he got home, and soon had the feeding tube out. He lived another 9 years afters afterwards.
     
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  7. Shoeskitty

    Shoeskitty Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2016
    Prayers that your vet's are wrong and your baby survives this!
     
  8. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Thanx for the support. No we don't test at home we are new to all this. We don't really know what glucose levels are good or not. We get conflicting numbers from the vets that have seen her. We both work so Snicky would be by herself for 10 hrs or so every day. We haven't heard from vet yet today for an update. Luckily we only live a half dozen blocks away so seeing her is an option as long as the vet is there checking animals. She was on Purina DM soft and hard food, neither which she would eat. Wife was feeding her Friskies soft food but she quit eating that too. She has had dental problems before and had 4 more teeth pulled in January. She hasn't been the same since. My wife said as she looks into her eyes thinks she doesn't have the fight left in her. I'm not that fast to judge though. Waiting to see whether the stronger antibiotic they gave her for her respiratory infection kicks in. The last thing I want is to put her down without giving her a fighting chance, even if I have to do it for her.
     
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  9. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Well I called the vet to check on kitty, she says she's more perky and eating a little better today, and her numbers are stabilizing. She still has sneezing fits from her infection but vet said if she stays like this we can bring her home tomorrow. I just hope we can keep her doing good. Not like before when she just nose dived downward in the blink of an eye.
     
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  10. Shoeskitty

    Shoeskitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Glad that things look better!
     
  11. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    So glad to hear that Snickers is looking better! When you get her home, post on the Health forum with your story. Many people here have had kitties with DKA and can help you to help Snickers.
     
  12. Love-Paula aka Woodsywife

    Love-Paula aka Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Before you bring her home pick up a glucose meter. You want to test before you give insulin every time, just like you would test yourself before you would take insulin. It can literally save a life.

    You should also get copies of a all her records and lab results.

    Please post when she comes home so we can answer your questions.
     
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  13. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Many questions remain. Where to get a glucose meter at? How do the numbers of a cat relate to human numbers? Where's a good place to sample her at? Every time we took her back for a checkup her numbers were good only to have her go to crap in a day's time. They are still saying 1 unit of lantus once a day, unless that changes when she comes home. Thanx for all the advise, we are new to this stuff. I hate to make a pin cushion out of her cuz she hates anything like that, try telling a stubborn cat it's for her own good.
     
  14. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Lantus in cats is dosed twice daily...every 12 hours. Some human diabetics are able to get by with only once a day with Lnatus, but a cat's metabolism is much faster than a human's. Lantus in cats has been shown to last between 10-14 hours, with an average of 12 hours. If they are only dosing once a day, then Snickers would not have enough insulin to keep the numbers down for a 24 hour period. This would make it very difficult to try to kep the glucose in check.
     
  15. Love-Paula aka Woodsywife

    Love-Paula aka Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Wal-Mart relion confirm or Micro are very popular here. They use the smallest blood drop. Micro doesn't require coding and you can turn the beep off if you need to.

    Make sure you get a box is strips. And lancets. Even if the vet says no you don't need to, I suggest doing it anyway. They won't know until you tell them later on.

    Since she has had ketones you should pick up dip sticks to keep testing, the can be very serious quickly.

    The ear and paw pads are the easiest places to test. There are videos here on the forum.

    Pet meters run higher than human. A low is low regardless of which meter you are using. We have a spreadsheet here we all use and help those give advice to others. It is color coded. The green zones are the ones where you monitor very closely. You can read up on that later.

    Important thing is to get meter and supplies, set up so it's ready when she gets home. And watch the video for testing and of course your spreadsheet.

    We can answer all your questions and talk you through the rest.

    Even if it's 1u once a day. Splitting it and giving twice might be better. A lot of vets 1. Don't know enough about the newer insulins, 2. Continue to base dosing on outdated information or proper technique used for humans not cats.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm really sorry to hear about Snickers' DKA episode, and I'm also sorry that you've all had such a rough time of it over the last few weeks. I hope you'll find the following information and resources helpful.

    You need to make sure that Snickers eats enough, has enough insulin, and also be vigilant about addressing any other health issues she has. It goes without saying that you need to keep on top of the URI. It's important to ensure that she has enough antibiotic cover while that resolves.

    When you're at the vets ask them to give you a supply of anti-nausea medication (e.g. ondansetron) and also an appetite stimulant (e.g. cyproheptadine) to hold at home so that you can address any inappetence head-on. Hopefully Snickers won't need them but it can make a world of difference having the appropriate treatments available at home should a need arise for them. Here's a helpful link about nausea, vomiting, and effective treatments for same:

    Nausea symptom checker and treatment info

    These meds can really help a cat recovering from DKA to keep eating if they're having difficulty. Getting sufficient calories into Snickers will be critical to her continued recovery.

    Here is a link to a primer on DKA and another link to tips for tempting cats with appetite issues to eat:

    FDMB DKA Sticky

    Persuading your cat to eat

    With the URI on the go, smellier foods might be more appetising to Snickers. Warming the food can help with this. Also, if she's a bit reluctant to eat because she can't smell the food properly try getting her to lick a little food from your hand. Her Jacobson's organ might then pick up the aroma and trigger her interest in finishing the meal.

    It is also critical that Snickers gets the right amount of insulin to meet her metabolic needs - and all the more so because she's still recovering from DKA. I agree with the others above who have expressed the view that it would be wiser to make sure that Snickers has 24-hour cover from her insulin and that a 12-12 schedule for Lantus works better. I strongly recommend you revisit this issue with your vets and agree a dose that will be safe to administer once every 12 hours. You will need to test before each insulin dose. You will also need to get mid-cycle tests as best you can. You advise above that you're out of the house for 10 hours during the day. If you could get an 'in the door' test, preshot test, and 'before bed' test on days when you're not home all day plus a curve on days when you're at home longer all of these data will give you a better picture of how well and how safely the insulin is working for Snickers. I'm glad to see you're going to get a meter and testing supplies. Here are some links to help you learn about home testing, plus a link to the instructions for setting up an FDMB spreadsheet:

    Home testing links and tips
    Testing and injection tips


    FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

    I'd hazard a guess that no caregiver who is confronted with the prospect of caring for a diabetic cat is overjoyed at the prospect of 'making pin cushions' of their little one but it may help to steel your resolve to remind yourself that it's much better than the alternatives that may arise from not testing. :) As you develop a routine and make it as much a positive experience for all of you as possible (lots of treats and fusses!) you may actually be surprised at how quickly it becomes part of your daily routine. Many cats here actually 'remind' their humans that it's test time - especially when they work out that it has a lot to do with them feeling better again, plus they get yummy treats and extra attention. :)

    It goes without saying that you'll need to be highly vigilant in monitoring Snickers' ketone levels, so it is VITAL you pick up supplies for testing ketones before Snickers comes home. Most people use urine dipsticks (e.g. Keto-diastix) but there are also blood ketone meters available (used in the same way as a blood glucose meter so you can test for BG and ketones at the same time). The blood ketone meter test strips are on the pricey side but they are worth their weight in gold when nursing a convalescent cat because you can check ketones pretty much at any hour of the day without the need to wait for kitty to produce a urine sample; a lot less worry for you, too. My cat thus far has not been ketone prone but she had an operation recently. When she was in the early days of her post-op recovery she developed an infection and wasn't eating properly (she lost an eye so her face and mouth were very sore, and the antibiotics were upsetting her digestive system). She started producing some ketones but thanks to the real time information I got from her blood ketone meter I was able to help her avoid DKA (she would not have survived the treatment). Can't recommend the ketone meter highly enough for critical care situations.

    I hope some of the above will be of help to you. It's a fair bit to take in so pace yourself; I just thought it would be helpful right now for you to have some key links gathered together in one place so you'll be able to find them easily when you need them.

    Fingers and paws crossed for Snickers over here in the UK. In the last few years I have been absolutely astounded to discover how resilient cats can be and how well they can recover with the right care and treatment regimen. Don't be shy about asking for help whenever you need it. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
  17. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Well the Snick-ster came home today. She looks fairly good. At least she came to the door to greet me when I came home for lunch. She's eating good for the moment but still sniffling. The vet upped her lantus from 1 unit once a day to 2 units 2 times a day. My wife is skeptical about such an increase. So, where can I get the spreadsheet for glucose monitoring? Also with the ketone strips, how do you use them, besides wetting them as I figgered? And, if ketone is present, what am I supposed to do? Take her to the vet or can I do something at home? I will have to get on the health forum tomorrow when I have more time. A BIG thanx to all here that post. It is invaluable information to keep on top of Snicker's health instead of waiting for something bad to occur suddenly. Them vet bills ain't cheap for 4-5 day stays. I almost had her written off last week, but she's still here thankfully. Thanx again for all the great info and help! I'm just gonna have to sift thru it all and see what I need. Andre
     
  18. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Glad to see that Snick-ster has come home. That is a big increase in the dosing, basically 4 times what she was getting before. Personally I would not be giving that big an increase without testing first. It is MOST important that you start home testing right away. If you are in the US most people will use the Relion:



    She should be tested at minimum before each shot to make sure it is safe to give the insulin. If at all possible it would be best to try to get a test around mid cycle (cycle is the time between each shot) to see how low the insulin is bringing her. With recovering from the respiratory infection that alone can bring down her glucose numbers as most kitties will run higher when they have any sort of infection. We have already had several people whose kitties had hypos when starting insulin and were able to catch it because of home testing.

    This link has information on home testing :

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/



    Please post your story on the Main Health forum to get more advice on testing and setting up a spreadsheet.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/
     
  19. Love-Paula aka Woodsywife

    Love-Paula aka Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Welcome home Snick-ster! Mum and dad are now going to help you feel better and stay away from that nasty hospital. So cooperating would be nice.

    That is quite an increase in amount of insulin. You want to monitor closely because with the infection clearing, the meds she was given will be clearing out, and she is feeling better, there is no way to know what that dose will do. You want to test before you give it each time and try to get some mid cycle. In the beginning, with Lantus you would want to get a test somewhere between 5-7 hours after giving it. This will help show where the nadir (low point) of how low the Lantus will drop the BS.

    To get a urine sample there are a few methods: leave an empty pan (my kitty will go in one), use aquarium gravel because it won't absorb, if possible you can put a big spoon under them while they are going, and you can put plastic wrap over the litter so it will puddle. Then you dip the stick and compare to chart on bottle. Since she has had ketones you will need to monitor . There is also a blood ketone meter, the strips are pricey.

    Please let us know how things are going.
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Andre,

    If you get trace ketones ring the vet immediately to get advice on how to proceed (and post here for additional input). Anything higher than trace ketones should be treated as an emergency and you should take Snickers to the vets for immediate treatment.

    Here is the link to the spreadsheet instructions again:

    FDMB Spreadsheet Instructions

    Study the nausea symptoms at the link I posted for you last night. Any sign of nausea or any inappetence and you should test again for ketones and contact the vet to get supportive meds to make sure Snickers keeps eating. (I'm assuming they sent her home without giving you anything for this.)

    That's a very significant dose increase. I strongly recommend that you get mid-cycle tests every day. If you can't get them on the daytime cycle then do get them on the night time cycle. Lantus is a depot insulin and each 2 unit dose will start filling up the 'tank'. As the 'tank' fills up the glucose lowering effect could increase significantly from cycle to cycle so you need to be vigilant to make sure Snickers stays in safe numbers.


    Mogs
    .
     
  21. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    This is a lot to absorb. I will get a home blood sugar tester as soon as I can. The vet charges 8 bucks for a glucose test each trip. She goes back to vet tomorrow for a check up. Maybe they'll lower her dosage if she's doing good. I want to know where the ketones come from and what to do to prevent if possible. Too much or not enough insulin? So do the presence of ketones automatically warrant a trip to the vet?
     
  22. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Also is it ok to give her some bits of turkey lunch meat? It's hard for her to go 12 hours between feedings and we used to give her turkey lunch meat from time to time cuz she loves it. Just wondering if it'll hurt her. And does it matter which ear to test from? Our vet seems to like the left ear for some reason.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
    Reason for edit: add
  23. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014

    I believe the Relion meter (human meter)strips are about $25 for a box of 100. The Alpha Trak 2 (pet meter) strips which are most likely what your vet uses are about $1.00 per strip so your vet is certainly making a profit from this. The best thing you can do is to home test...it will be safer for your kitty and much, much cheaper and less stress for your kitty than going to the vet.


    Many luncheon meats have added sugar in them. As well most have a high salt content which is not really good for any kitty. If you have plain cooked chicken...NO ONION OR GARLIC....you can give her some of that.

    It doesn't matter which ear you test from. Some people will find that one ear "bleeds" better than the other. It is trial and error with that. :)
     
  24. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Thanx for the reply. Our vet had said turkey wouldn't hurt her but I wanted to ask others. We get deli meat not the prepackaged Oscar meyer stuff. Will go get a meter tomorrow night. I think testing here many times vs. once a week at vet will help us stay up on Snicky's health. She's doing good right now, hope she doesn't nose dive again. Wife is going out of town this weekend so I hope I can handle kitty ok by myself.
     
  25. Love-Paula aka Woodsywife

    Love-Paula aka Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    She can eat more often the every 12 hrs. Actually it's better if they have more frequent meals. Take the 12 hr meal, divide in half and give every 6 hrs. Or try every 4 hrs. You can freeze some and leave out if your not home. She can eat it as it thaws.
     
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Andre,

    Slow down and breathe. :)

    Then revisit my two posts above: the information you need is there. :bighug:

    Re ketones, in order to minimise risks you need to ensure that Snickers has:

    * enough food and fluids
    * enough insulin
    * appropriate treatment for any underlying condition (e.g. the URI)

    Diligent daily monitoring of ketone levels in urine and/or blood is also essential.


    Mogs
    .
     
  27. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Snicky had a check up today. Her bg was 77, so they cut her back to 1 unit of lantus in morning and 2 in the evening with an afternoon snack, which we do fudge on her snacks somewhat. And the critical and urgent care food they were selling us is not low carbs. Huh. So I've perused the list on the main forum page and will get her whatever I think she'll eat. And will get a glucosometer tonite because I'd rather check her daily than the once a week guessing game from the vet. She's eating well now and getting her energy back and I want to keep it that way.
     
  28. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Lantus works best with consistent dosing every 12 hours. It sounds like your vet is used to insulins like prozinc or PZI where you can change the dose around like that.
     
  29. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Did you manage to get ketone test strips, Andre?

    BTW, be sure to get a before bed test every night: many, many cats run lower at night.


    Mogs
    .
     
  30. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Snickers still doing good. My wife is leaving for the weekend so me and kitty will be by ourselves. I hate poking the poor thing to give her insulin but I have too. She just ate and I gave her a shot. Now I'll watch her for awhile. Tried to get a blood sample for a glucose check. She wiggled and I sampled myself. Went ahead and checked mine since it was my blood. Decent numbers despite all the chocolate I shoveled down my neck this afternoon. Will try again later with her ear. She's sitting on my shoulder right now looking outside. She's more like her old self, hope it stays that way.
     
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  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    This made me laugh! Thanks for the chuckle, Andre. :)

    Thanks for posting a Snickers update! I'm very pleased - for both of you - to hear she's feeling more like herself. Be sure to always conscientiously monitor her for ketones: a quick response makes the world of difference to keeping them in check.


    Mogs
    .
     
  32. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Been in and out of the house a lot all day so couldn't get a urine sample yet. Yeah I'm a bit of a choco-holic. I go as far as buying Magic Shell chocolate fudge for ice cream but I just drink it instead. I love that stuff! So what exactly causes ketones??
     
  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  34. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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  35. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    Hi Andre, how is Snickers doing today?

    I saw on an earlier post that you are planning on changing her food to a low-carb choice. It's always best to keep a diabetic cat's carbs below 10%, but since she is already on insulin you will need to do the transition very gradually, mixing the new food with the old in increasing proportions until she is completely changed over to low-carb. You also MUST be home testing, and prepared to monitor very closely, as a decrease in carbs can cause a significant and potentially deadly drop in blood glucose! Please read :

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

    I am not trying to scare you, I just want you to be aware of any potential problems, so you will be able to keep Snicker safe! :):):)
     
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  36. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    So if I do encounter a low sugar situation, what do I do? Just not give her insulin? How do I get it back up?
     
  37. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  39. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    The Snick-Ster is doing pretty good. She's sleeping at the other end of the couch. Had her evening meal and shot. The food we got from the vet isn't even low carb. Some sorta Purina CM and Urgent care stuff. I have to research the low carb food chart here and buy accordingly.
     
  40. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 26, 2015
    I'm glad to hear she's doing well! I love her picture, she's cute as can be! :)
     
  41. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Yes she's a cutie, but everyone else's cats are cuties too. I like that pose on her side or back staring at us.
     
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  42. Laurie D.

    Laurie D. Member

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    Mar 30, 2016
    I would never give insulin without food. We had a patient on our floor who received insulin in the morning, then went to dialysis. He was not given a breakfast or lunch tray. He bottomed out to 16, but made it. I guess it depends on how high the cat goes, and I am not a vet, just a peon people nurse, and the vet is the expert. I went through that once before and know the feeling. A previous cat was receiving 2 units of insulin twice daily. Then, I went back in and the vet at the time said two units in the a.m. When I went back again I got yelled at. "Why are you only giving him 2 units once a day?" Huh, because the last vet told me to! I do not claim to know cat medicine, but that was uncalled for.
     
  43. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Ok, having a problem with Snickers. She's been getting shots for about a month now. Now she is starting to get testy and jumpy when it's shot time. Now she's been growling at my wife when she tries to inject her at the neck, and tonite she jerked her head around for me and I'm not sure the needle stayed in. I can see she is going to get more intolerant. I'm open for suggestions. She needs her insulin. We don't think she would let us poke anywhere else without brute force holding her down, and my wife just can't do that by herself.
     
  44. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I inject my Patches II when she is finishing her food. Otherwise she tries to bit me.
     
  45. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

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    Apr 3, 2016
    Heck it took both of us this morning to inject her. Wife held her down and I shot. This is starting to be a big problem. I don't want to get rough with her but feel I may have to just for her to get the insulin.
     
  46. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Are you home testing BG, Andre? What are her blood sugars doing? It would really help if you could post some data: sometimes getting antsy about insulin doses is the way a cat tells you something's wrong.


    Mogs
    .
     
  47. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Heck she won't hardly let us give her insulin now much less poke her ear. She's gotta vet appt. tomorrow for a check up. I'll have wife ask how to easily test on our own at home.
     
  48. Laurie D.

    Laurie D. Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Mine does okay if I put the food down first. She is busy eating and doesn't even notice the shot. The vet also told me to check after she eats. I am so used to people. We check first, give insulin according to a sliding scale or schedule. They are checked before each meal and at night, sometimes two hours after a meal. But, my vet told me I could start checking 2 hours after, but no later than 4. When we are trying to get her regulated, best to check at least every 2 hours.
     
  49. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    My wife tried to give her a shot tonite while she was eating, and Snickers promptly stopped eating and squalled and ran off. She's getting increasingly difficult to handle.
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Are you monitoring Snickers' water consumption? Are you testing her urine for glucose and ketones?


    Mogs
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  51. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    I was wondering seems I read somewhere else here that steroids and insulin don't mix. When we had our big trouble with Snicky 2 weeks ago, they had given her a steroid to help battle her upper resp. infection. She was on 1 unit of lantus per day then. Could the steroid and lantus together make her glucose fluctuate wildly and make her as sick as she got? She's still doing good now but she won't let me get a blood sample and is getting very difficult to even inject her.
     
  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Steroids can raise BG levels and the insulin dose may need to be adjusted if a diabetic cat needs steroid treatment. I suggest you post for help with dose management on the Lantus and Levemir insulin support group.

    And please test Snickers' urine for ketones daily and monitor how much she is drinking every day if you're not already monitoring urine and home testing blood glucose levels. You need to be extra careful to monitor cats with a history of DKA. They tend to be far more ketone-prone going forward and therefore more vulnerable to developing DKA in the future. I can't emphasise this to you strongly enough, Andre.


    Mogs
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  53. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    As far as monitoring goes, there's not much chance getting a bg sample from her. She's starting to bite and scratch now just to give her an injection, and 2 vets had to hold her down to get a blood sample last week. She is getting increasingly difficult to handle making it impossible to get a hold of her ear. We're running out of patience with her.
     
  54. Erica & Carter

    Erica & Carter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    I can't speak from experience because I have a pretty "go with the flow" cat but have you tried to use a lancet on her pads to take blood? A lot of people can't get enough blood from the pad but I thought the same thing until I tried from the paw pad and that's the only place I test him from now. He wasn't bad for the ear prick, but he sits cradled in my lap purring for the paw pad, seems a lot less stressful for him.

    Just a thought. :)
     
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  55. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    I could try the pad. She just squalls now like you're trying to cut her in half! Getting very difficult and unnerving. We're trying to keep her healthy but she doesn't understand. I wish I knew cat-speak.
     
  56. Erica & Carter

    Erica & Carter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    Sorry you have to deal with that. I'm thankful Carter puts up with a lot (although right now I can't get him to pee for a Ketone test to save my life!!) but I found the ear was more stressful for him than the pad. It was more awkward for me to get a grip so in turn it took longer which increased the stress. The pad takes but a second, and if I squeeze around it enough blood comes out that the Relion Confirm can read.

    I was curious to what my 12 year old (non-diabetic) cat's BS was so I tried to test him and let's just say I hope he's never diabetic because he's a grumpy old man when it comes to restraint. It's hard enough to trim his nails yet I've had and handled him since he was a few weeks old and he still is difficult. Sweetest boy and loves to cuddle but doing anything to him medically or otherwise, forget about it! It would be a struggle for sure.
     
  57. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Take a deep breath and relax. You can do this but all kittys are different. Is this a cat that enjoys lying on her back? It looks that way from the picture you have put up. Mine does. Have a read of my thread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newly-diagnosed-in-the-uk.155984/ where I am running a diary of my experiences in the hope it will help others as well as getting some great advice from the more experienced folk on here. I have had to adapt to the cat. She was fine at first getting her shots when she was eating as she was so hungry she didn't care - her focus was her food. As the insulin has kicked in she doesn't want to be messed with when eating but when full and happy and away from her food bowl she is accepting the shot more easily if it is injected away from her scruff. I only grasp her flesh to make the tent rather than trying to hold her. Sounds as though your kitty is getting annoyed at being messed with so the less messing the better. She has to learn to associate treats and love with her shots and blood tests. I tried taking blood from her ear and she made it clear she didn't like it and I found it really difficult.

    Try this for getting blood from the paws which is what I am doing and seems to be working.

    First set out your equipment. A large towel on the floor, some alcohol gel or wipes - something to clean the paws. Some vaseline or neosporin, whichever you have to hand. Cotton wool wipes. An old sock with a handful of rice in it and then knotted to make a little bag. Load up the lancet machine. Push the strip almost into the meter but not far enough to activate it. Make sure you have spare strips to hand in case the blood doesn't go onto it the first time. Everything should be in easy reach for when you sit cross legged on the towel with the cat. Warm the sock in the microwave for 30 seconds, throw it down on the towel then go get the cat. Have good light to work by.
    Sit cross legged on the floor, cradle the cat between your legs and on her back, and grasp one of the back paws, apply a tiny blob of alcohol gel and rub in well.
    Place the warm sock over the pads and while the foot is warming up make a big fuss of the cat so she associates this with getting good attention.
    Once the pads are warm place the lancet machine firmly onto the rear large pad, I have the alphatrak set on 4 which goes nicely into the pad. Press the button and hold for 2-3 seconds before withdrawing and as you put the lancet down push the strip all the way into the meter.
    Gently squeeze the paw pad until you see a little blob of blood, the meter should now be ready to read.
    Hold the very edge or end (depending on which meter you use) of the test strip onto the top of the blob and it sucks it up and beeps, put the meter down.
    Press gently on the paw pad for several seconds with the cotton wool pad to prevent bruising, then rub a small amount of vaseline onto the pad whilst making a fuss of the cat.
    By this time the meter should have given you a reading.
    Let go of the cat and reward her with a food treat and more fussing. Using this method seems pretty painless for her, her ears flick as the lancet goes in but I'm not sure if it is the noise or the needle. I have had some failures and had to go in a second time to get the blood but I think I didn't leave the sock on long enough.

    The videos make it all look very easy but they are made by people who have been doing this a long time and seem to have very docile cats!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
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  58. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I understand this problem you have hence my recommendation to you to measure her water intake and food consumption and also to test her urine for glucose and ketones. It would go some way to giving you a picture of her regulation. I know I keep harping on about this but you really, really need to frequently and regularly test her urine for ketones to keep her safe and well; they can develop really quickly.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2016
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  59. DreMeister

    DreMeister Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Well I tried the saran wrap in her litter box and she promptly peed on the carpet. She's really finicky. She eats very well. Problem is she was used to eating whenever she wanted to but now is limited to 3 times a day, she wakes us up at night hollering for food. My wife is not happy about this. Her water intake and peeing is about normal for her now. I know I need to test her. If I could do that we might be able to contain her diabetes with diet.
     
  60. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    I've been thinking about you and how you are getting on. I have a finicky cat as well as far as her litter box is concerned, she prefers to stand on the doorstep with her legs crossed rather than go outside, gives me a dirty look if it needs changing (why I'm not sure because I know I didn't do it) and leaps in often when I am still filling it with fresh litter. She is very fussy about her litter as well and I have to buy the same one each time or she looks elsewhere. So, tonight I decided to check her urine dip. As I was thinking about it she jumped into her litter box and started to perform, I grabbed a spoon and snuck up behind her and just held it between her rear end and the litter. She hates being watched or messed with when in her box so I wasn't sure if this would work but I got a nice sample, ketone negative as well which was a bonus! I think all you can do is keep experimenting and find the best approach for her. Mine is still demanding food all the time as well, I think it is a reflex in cats because if I ignore her she mostly gives up and settles.
     
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  61. Erica & Carter

    Erica & Carter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2016
    I used to have my cats using a wheat-based litter (which I like so much better) but my oldest civvie has always had behevioural issues when it comes to the litterbox. He for the longest time would pee elsewhere, like on my bed, on a mat, on a shirt that fell on the ground, but he would still have bowel movements in the box. This went on for a year or two. I tried the cat attract litter, and it worked, until it didn't. Then I tried taking the lid off the litterbox, and he used it (for the most part) until maybe a few months ago I decided to try to put it back on again (after 3 years) and to my surprise, he uses it! But if it's not cleaned out twice daily, or it's too low, he will pee somewhere else. I have to keep covers on everything. Also he refuses to use any litter but Tidy Cats, and I hate clay based litter. Thinking of buying a bag of Swheat Scoop from Petsmart and the returning the remainder for a refund if it doesn't work since they accept all returns pretty much.

    Carter, fortunately, is not like that, and I can catch a urine sample for the most part as he doesn't fuss around, just walks straight in and squats infront so I can just stick a spoon under.
     
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